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Offline page

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2018, 07:09:08 AM »
Ok, I edited my funny list to alter Beckett and Tourette allegiances and added Rolf Toten.

Honestly there is little proof for Brotherhood of Nine vampires to be members of Sabbat at any time, save for the "bishop" title and morbid, depraved obsessions. However, I'd like to think they once STARTED as Antitribu that later went bananas. Totally unfounded and destructive splinter group, like Branch Davidians of David Koresh to Seventh-day Adventist  :smile:

Offline MadamePhoenica

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2018, 07:52:01 AM »
If I may weight in here, I have started thinking about this whole Brotherhood of the Ninth Circle stuff, and I agree with some of what has been discussed. Here are my thoughts so far:

1) The clans of each of the plaguebearers I am thinking are:
Jezebel Locke: Toreador - mainly because of her seductive nature, and use of Presence.
Brother Kanker: Nosferatu(?) - was deliberating a bit on this one, but Nosferatu are only one of two clans that use Obfuscate. I had considered Nagaraja due to his saying something about feeding on the PC character's flesh and the fact he has yellow eyes and long fangs, and the torn apart bodies strung up around him.
Bishop Vick: Brujah - again I deliberated a bit, but went with Brujah because of how passionate he is about his cause, and we all know how passionate Brujah can get about their causes. It is also plausible he is Toreador because of how "beautiful and scary" the girl downstairs tells the PC she thinks he is.

2) With the three clans mentioned generally being aligned with the Camarilla, I also considered the possibility that they all suffer from the Victim of the Masquerade flaw and were therefore outcast from the Camarilla, and were also possibly some kind of religious fanatics before they were embraced. I have no proof of any of this, of course.

3) I had also considered that all three may have been Caitiff, but I disregarded this due to the amount of knowledge they have about kindred society and beliefs, even though they don't mention anything about knowing what clans they are.

Anyway, just a bit of food for thought.

Offline BoxCrayonTales

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2018, 12:12:01 PM »
I never found the population dynamics realistic. In real life Illuminati and satanic abuse conspiracies are impossible because of logistics. The more members there are, the more difficult it is to manage the conspiracy. Trying to devise a plausible explanation why the Masquerade stands indefinitely would ultimately require some strange excuse like most people disbelieving the paranormal on sight a la Sunnydale. In such a setting, vampires who try to break the Masquerade get locked up in asylums or prisons by disbelieving humans.

Offline Pumma

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2018, 07:08:38 PM »
Bishop Vick has Necromancy Level 3 and Celerity Level 3 and most probably Auspex which is similar to the Sangiovanni bloodline from Requiem. He is also caring a disease similar to the one of the Lamia bloodline. Last but not least he remembers well the Kiss which is not typical and most probably speaks of the Lamia or the Giovanni painful Kiss.

Offline BoxCrayonTales

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2018, 12:08:22 PM »
The Lamia still had an anesthetic kiss, they just carried a fast-killing plague (which other vampires could carry). The plague itself was not a zombie plague, so it doesn’t explain the zombies.

The Giovanni weakness has varied across editions. Initially they dealt twice as much damage but only got half the blood. In V20, IIRC, their kiss was merely painful and did not subdue the victim. According the writer of the Vampire Translation Guide, he forgot to convert the weakness in the book but mentioned on RPG.net that their kiss works but leaves behind ugly, blackened, painful marks.

Doesn’t explain the zombies either.

Speaking of Giovanni...

Did you know Giovanni is an Italian given name equivalent to John? (Both derive from the Hebrew name Johannes.) It makes no sense as a surname except with the prefix “di” to make it equivalent to Johnson. Not exactly an intimidating mafia surname, unless they are deliberately trying to appear as bland as possible (which admittedly is a really good strategy for man-eating monsters).

“San” just means saint, so San Giovanni means St. John. Oddly enough I did find instances of Sangiovanni used as a surname without the “di” prefix.

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2018, 12:59:27 PM »
The Lamia still had an anesthetic kiss, they just carried a fast-killing plague (which other vampires could carry). The plague itself was not a zombie plague, so it doesn’t explain the zombies.
I believe the Giovanni did them way with the Lamia with rest of the Cappadocians (they are a bloodline but pretty tied to their parent clan).

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The Giovanni weakness has varied across editions. Initially they dealt twice as much damage but only got half the blood. In V20, IIRC, their kiss was merely painful and did not subdue the victim. According the writer of the Vampire Translation Guide, he forgot to convert the weakness in the book but mentioned on RPG.net that their kiss works but leaves behind ugly, blackened, painful marks.

Doesn’t explain the zombies either.
Plus I don't think the Giovanni will be his Clan given how insular the Giovanni are.

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Speaking of Giovanni...

Did you know Giovanni is an Italian given name equivalent to John? (Both derive from the Hebrew name Johannes.) It makes no sense as a surname except with the prefix “di” to make it equivalent to Johnson. Not exactly an intimidating mafia surname, unless they are deliberately trying to appear as bland as possible (which admittedly is a really good strategy for man-eating monsters).
I did know Giovanni was equivalent to John but didn't know at bout Di. Apparently they were named after the creator's favourite Italian restaurant.

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“San” just means saint, so San Giovanni means St. John. Oddly enough I did find instances of Sangiovanni used as a surname without the “di” prefix.
I didn't know this. Sangiovanni always seemed rather weird to me, makes me think of Sanguine.

Offline IanW

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2018, 02:31:44 PM »
Speaking of Giovanni...

Did you know Giovanni is an Italian given name equivalent to John? (Both derive from the Hebrew name Johannes.) It makes no sense as a surname except with the prefix “di” to make it equivalent to Johnson. Not exactly an intimidating mafia surname, unless they are deliberately trying to appear as bland as possible (which admittedly is a really good strategy for man-eating monsters).

We considered changing it, but Giovanni is actually used as a surname. It's not a very common one, but it is used. So we kept it.
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Offline Barabbah

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2018, 07:29:11 PM »
Two fun facts about Giovanni:

- Giovanni are referenced as both italian mafiosi and a venetian family who came into prominence in the 10th century. Historically speaking it cannot be any more impossible: italian mafia's first members were the remnants of the private militia of the Kingdom of the two Sicilies dissolved in the 19th century. There's no way a venetian family (located in the north of a peninsula not yet united as a state until the early 19th century but divided in countless reigns at war) of the 10th century could have connections with a criminal empire born several centuries later. Tecnically a mafioso-like criminal organization is also present, and prominent, in the venetian zone but it started with both venetian criminals and members of the sicilian mafia emigrated there and in the seventies. Or there's something else behind the Giovanni vampires or they're simply a badly conceived mix-up of sicilian's stereotypes.

- The random exclamations spoken by italoamuricans (or at least the wav files, usually I don't spend much time in the stronghold before the start of the mandatory carnage :P) mostly are italian phrases but with no sense: Caserta (the name of an italian city) is used as a exclamation of uncertainity (like "I don't know" or "what was that?"). Or as (grammatically crippled) blasphemies: here in Italy it's one of the biggest taboo, completely outlawed in media but still many expresses them, as a liberatory act, with a variety and originality you cannot find elsewhere. You think goddammit is a blasphemy? You cannot be any more far of what we can do <3

Offline Wesp5

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2018, 09:45:44 PM »
There's no way a venetian family (located in the north of a peninsula not yet united as a state until the early 19th century but divided in countless reigns at war) of the 10th century could have connections with a criminal empire born several centuries later.

Why not? Especially if they are vampires and several centuries later is no problem ;)!

Offline Pumma

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2018, 05:04:17 AM »
Neither Paul nor Hannah nor Tin Can Bill became a zombie so it's not a zombie plague. Neither any of the public victims has become a zombie. There are zombies only at the Crackhouse. So most probably Bishop Vick raised them as zombies after they died from the plaque. Also most probably Bishop Vick was embraces accidentally by unknown Giovanni or maybe by Bruno Giovanni himself.

Offline Barabbah

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2018, 06:56:31 AM »
There's no way a venetian family (located in the north of a peninsula not yet united as a state until the early 19th century but divided in countless reigns at war) of the 10th century could have connections with a criminal empire born several centuries later.

Why not? Especially if they are vampires and several centuries later is no problem ;)!

I was thinking: how can they be a mafia family before mafia actually born?

Offline argikt

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2018, 07:17:26 AM »
There's no way a venetian family (located in the north of a peninsula not yet united as a state until the early 19th century but divided in countless reigns at war) of the 10th century could have connections with a criminal empire born several centuries later.

Why not? Especially if they are vampires and several centuries later is no problem ;)!

I was thinking: how can they be a mafia family before mafia actually born?

Giovanni family develop as patron of powerful kings in middle age, their business 'changed' later...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 01:33:34 PM by Wesp5 »

Offline Barabbah

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2018, 07:22:58 AM »
Ah ok makes sense then, nevermind....

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2018, 08:46:35 AM »
We can always resort to the guild system if mafia does not work... when you strip all the fancy parts from it, you get a guild structure indeed, with the single family at its apex calling the shots while others serving in one capacity or another. Works in every age.
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Offline BoxCrayonTales

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Re: How many vampires dwell in L.A.?
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2018, 03:18:11 AM »
World of Darkness is not a particularly well-constructed universe. It was not originally a very serious game, as shown by nonsensical clan names like Bruja (witch), Giovanni (John), Lasombra (the shadow), Toreador (bullfighter), etc, half the clans being ethnic stereotypes and bizarre niche concepts. Later editions tried to tighten things and obviously that did not work.

Now the IP is on life support paid by kickstarter donations from an aging, shrinking fanbase. Dungeons & Dragons is pulling record sales, primarily due to dramatically simplifying a previously bloated ruleset and free advertising by the extremely popular show Stranger Things on Netflix.

You would think, given the popularity of the paranormal romance genre, that World of Darkness would be more popular. For some reason or many reasons, like a lack of advertising, a high price tag, a convoluted development history, a needlessly complicated ruleset, an inability to really emulate any other vampire fiction, a history of embarrassing scandals, the end of the 90s cultural zeitgeist, or something else, this is not the case.

Since White Wolf dissolved into a holding company for its gaming IP, none of the new owners have shown competent management of said IP. CCP just wanted to make another bland boring MMO grindfest in an era when MMOs are declining in favor of phone games. Paradox produced a handful of phone game shovelware and another edition of Vampire which made unremarkable changes that somehow alienated a lot of existing fans.

Somewhere along the line I lost my train of thought. What were we talking about again?

 

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