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Offline FleshArtist

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2017, 03:56:56 AM »
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In my opinion, the deal with Chinatown is unused potential and the same goes for Downtown. Santa Monica and Hollywood on the other hand seem "balanced" in terms of quest amounts and space that they are stretched across. If you look closer at the sheer numbers of "accessible" buildings in Downtown, you will find a great disparage if you make a comparison with those that are not: for example, Empire Arms is practically empty and I get a feeling that many other locations are only at their half of potential. I do not want to sound selfish, but there could be more in them.
Chinatown would be a whole lot interesting if there would have been a slightly bigger variety of enemies, particularly the Kuei since I cannot make out honestly who are you fighting in the ending: they are all practically ordinary Chinamen (with big damage soak though ;) ) and what were supposed to be the actual Kuei display no special powers. I guess that the time frame took here Troika down...
It also seems like Chinatown is smaller and more cramped than the other hubs. There was only one main quest involving Chinatown, and that was basically to just rush through it to find Barabus and get out to never see it again before the end sequences. Also, good point about buildings in other hubs too. There's rooms in Empire Arms that seem like there's supposed to be a quest there (I'm thinking of that music room behind the stage in particular), but just aren't used. Skyline has unused areas as well.

Probably the weirdest part about Chinatown that I don't see discussed often is the fact that Chinatown is referred to by Mercurio as being the most dangerous part of L.A even more so than Downtown or Hollywood, and it'd make sense because the Kuei-Jin took it by force from the Anarchs. Shouldn't any cainite who travels there be beset by Kuei-Jin in the shadows? Especially if that cainite, the PC has had dealings with the Anarchs. You would think you might see vampire and Kuei-Jin duels in dark alleys or elsewhere. Chinatown's probably the most tame of all the hubs. And like mentioned, there's only 3 actual Kuei-Jin you face in the whole game! That's part of the reason I don't like the Chinatown temple level, you're slashing through a bunch of humans the whole time.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 04:00:24 AM by FleshArtist »

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2017, 08:04:08 AM »
Probably the weirdest part about Chinatown that I don't see discussed often is the fact that Chinatown is referred to by Mercurio as being the most dangerous part of L.A even more so than Downtown or Hollywood, and it'd make sense because the Kuei-Jin took it by force from the Anarchs. Shouldn't any cainite who travels there be beset by Kuei-Jin in the shadows? Especially if that cainite, the PC has had dealings with the Anarchs. You would think you might see vampire and Kuei-Jin duels in dark alleys or elsewhere. Chinatown's probably the most tame of all the hubs. And like mentioned, there's only 3 actual Kuei-Jin you face in the whole game! That's part of the reason I don't like the Chinatown temple level, you're slashing through a bunch of humans the whole time.

I think that the best way to remedy that would be the sporadic encounters with the Kuei throughout the hub, but again, the relatively small size of Chinatown as a hub would pose a slight problem: every fight would be a potential masquerade and criminal violation and it would make Chinatown a battlefield. The only potential solution to this would be to expand it, but frankly, I don't know if that's possible to do considering the age of the game and its engine.
Other than that, you can go with the sewers, but I do not know if that approach would be expedient: I doubt that the Kuei have patrols in the sewer system, but again, it is a possible solution.
Another one is to open up buildings in which fights of that character could "burst" like the one in the dinner back in Santa Monica - that would keep in character with Mercurio's view and make Chinatown a place that could "last longer" and not be a rush like you said FleshArtist. ;)
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Offline Malkav

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2017, 03:33:52 PM »
Hm, I don't think there would be open fighting. There is a cease fire after all because both sides need to regroup after the initial fighting.
But I'd sxpect to find someone like the sweeper in Hollywood to send you to the temple when you first arrive. And perhaps some watchers on the fire escapes around the buildings. Maybe one or two of them could get you into a fight...
And I agree there should be some real Kuey Jin in the temple when you arrive for the endgame.
Of course you might run into some Tong even before you go against them in the course of the main quest. After all most people do the Traffic quest.
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Offline Wesp5

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2017, 08:19:25 PM »
And I agree there should be some real Kuey Jin in the temple when you arrive for the endgame.

I already added an unused Chang brothers model to the second map for the plus patch, but I just noticed I have made him a human as well. While I don't want to replicate the Chang brothers with their effects there, for the next patch I gave him at least the jumping powers of the Kathayan in SM :)!

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2017, 07:32:28 PM »
What do you think of adding more quests from specific characters?
Bertram, for example, could give the PC several new quests and not to act simply as an information purveyor. The same thing could be also said for Wong Ho or Nines (when I look back, Nines is one of the major characters yet you get no quests for him) and Hatter.
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Offline FleshArtist

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2017, 08:16:13 PM »
Quote
What do you think of adding more quests from specific characters?
Bertram, for example, could give the PC several new quests and not to act simply as an information purveyor. The same thing could be also said for Wong Ho or Nines (when I look back, Nines is one of the major characters yet you get no quests for him) and Hatter.
I wonder also if there was any cut potential quests that would be given by Nines, say, some sort of reconnaissance or sabotage mission if the PC is friendly to the Anarchs.

I wouldn't mind seeing more insidious side quests for LaCroix if the PC has proven their loyalty to him by completing new side quests after the Flayton review. Perhaps LaCroix can have the PC assassinate his enemies or spy on others.


Offline tschumann

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2017, 09:21:03 PM »
I like Elisabeth Dane quest. It's short, but hellish difficult without Obfuscate. I like the option of controlling the crane. I made the container to fall onto cops' heads once, and it was interesting to notice they survied, but were taking damage once in a while and some of them consequently died.

Huh, never knew you could use the crane.

I like the serial killer quest because of the twists and turns it takes.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2017, 08:13:46 AM »
Quote
What do you think of adding more quests from specific characters?
Bertram, for example, could give the PC several new quests and not to act simply as an information purveyor. The same thing could be also said for Wong Ho or Nines (when I look back, Nines is one of the major characters yet you get no quests for him) and Hatter.
I wonder also if there was any cut potential quests that would be given by Nines, say, some sort of reconnaissance or sabotage mission if the PC is friendly to the Anarchs.

I wouldn't mind seeing more insidious side quests for LaCroix if the PC has proven their loyalty to him by completing new side quests after the Flayton review. Perhaps LaCroix can have the PC assassinate his enemies or spy on others.

We are on the same page here. However, I would dare go a step further: why not "redeem" LaCroix and preserve the Camarilla under his rule? I always found his dialogues fascinating and I don't see him as a really bad guy: he only wants what relatively all vamps want: power and prestige.
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Offline Malkav

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2017, 03:12:39 PM »
And who or what could possibly convince him not to open the box?
Anyway I loathe the guy since I first saw the layout of his office. The desk right at the step and no chairs for visitors, so everybody is a suplicant and a step below him.
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Online The Shadow Man

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2017, 03:22:54 PM »
I have played all endings before but I've never actually been sympathetic towards LaCroix, he frames you for the not so successful murder of Nines and is obsessed with the Sarcophagus beyond all reason. Purely based on the content of the game itself I feel most sympathetic with the Anarchs, though having read up on what the Free State was supposedly actually like I think that the Anarchs aren't such a good idea (rival street gangs mostly) after all but technically the main character wouldn't really know that logically even if I do. The Tremere Regent seems relatively decent to me though as he says he has no interest in being Prince.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 03:25:58 PM by The Shadow Man »

Offline Rubinia

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2017, 08:08:09 PM »
I've always been fascinated with the blackboard in the Sabbat Warehouse. I'll make a screen when I'll get there and show you why. The blackboard (actually green ;) ) stands in a room somewhere near the place you are to instal the explosives. So before doing so, it's nice to explore, find the blackboard and read a bit.
It's covered with mixed and various graffiti, whole sentences, the meaning of which strangly not corresponde with Sabbat gore fame.
"If we don't stop violence now, then when?"
"Guns don't kill people, people do."
(some misty bizzare words about self-control and discipline)

I love it. So calm and intriguing. It's as if the Sabbats just had stopped a lesson, kind of teretical training. Maybe it simply looks better than it actually is, but definitelly seems nicer than Prince LaCroix's cold and self-interest philosophy he presents all the time.
"Having created something so extraordinary one would die happy, if one died."

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Offline FleshArtist

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Re: Favorite Quest and Why
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2017, 09:05:20 PM »
I've always been fascinated with the blackboard in the Sabbat Warehouse. I'll make a screen when I'll get there and show you why. The blackboard (actually green ;) ) stands in a room somewhere near the place you are to instal the explosives. So before doing so, it's nice to explore, find the blackboard and read a bit.
It's covered with mixed and various graffiti, whole sentences, the meaning of which strangly not corresponde with Sabbat gore fame.
"If we don't stop violence now, then when?"
"Guns don't kill people, people do."
(some misty bizzare words about self-control and discipline)

I love it. So calm and intriguing. It's as if the Sabbats just had stopped a lesson, kind of teretical training. Maybe it simply looks better than it actually is, but definitelly seems nicer than Prince LaCroix's cold and self-interest philosophy he presents all the time.
I remember seeing those as well, but keep in mind, the Sabbat are infamous for being ironic. Probably the largest example of their irony is the fact they have an "Inquisition" who culls out vampires which practice Dark Thaumaturgy or are believed to be "heretics".

By the way, wasn't there a few math equations on that board as well? I guess our vampire interrupted a Sabbat college class!

Quote
And who or what could possibly convince him not to open the box?
Anyway I loathe the guy since I first saw the layout of his office. The desk right at the step and no chairs for visitors, so everybody is a suplicant and a step below him.
And that's why I sometimes jump on his head while he's sitting down and just stand there. He has no idea beyond what kind of mockery is being made of him beyond the fourth wall.

Quote
We are on the same page here. However, I would dare go a step further: why not "redeem" LaCroix and preserve the Camarilla under his rule? I always found his dialogues fascinating and I don't see him as a really bad guy: he only wants what relatively all vamps want: power and prestige.
Story-wise, it would be impossible to do since by the time the PC has defeated him, all Camarilla primogens are in dislike of him, so trying to prop him up and somehow helping him survive the bomb would draw the ire from the primogens and would lead to him and you having to leave the city.

Otherwise, LaCroix isn't the most annoying character, and he isn't exactly a tyrant. He handles the Anarchs well despite them being bitter rivals to the Camarilla. Other Camarilla princes would be far more tyrannical, and would probably arrange to have a mass shooting at the Last Round.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 09:15:23 PM by FleshArtist »

 

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