Favorite NPC?

[Talyn82]

Talyn: I doubt that VV is sincere, it's calculation on her part - 'Let's get the fledgling to do my dirty work'. I was really rude a few times to her and it is interesting, how her mask slips then. But nowadays I'm being nice to get the photo and sell it for good money.

You're most likely right.  She does get me to kill the hunter and tries to get me to kill Julius.  Aside from the hunter I don't kill Julius I just tell him to get out of town.  It's just since I never played the table top rpg I don't know how Toreador should be like.


It's like LaCroix who Malkav mentions above.  Most VTMB fans say LaCroix does not make a good Ventrue due to his childish tantrums when he doesn't get his way.  I agree with the tantrums.  But I think just by the way he carries himself and the way he talks with his snotty attitude.  To me he's just another corporate asshole with an overinflated ego which imo fit the Ventrue clan.

[Wilhelm-Streicher]

yeah, but Kiki is a teenager, she has room to change still, so I don't mind her too much.

I don´t think that Kiki is that young. Maybe early twenties.
Also her age doesn´t apologize her bad behaivor towards the player particularly if female. She is a bitch like the girl from PS4 game Until Dawn who reminds of Kiki.

[Highwayman667]

You're most likely right.  She does get me to kill the hunter and tries to get me to kill Julius.  Aside from the hunter I don't kill Julius I just tell him to get out of town.  It's just since I never played the table top rpg I don't know how Toreador should be like.

It's like LaCroix who Malkav mentions above.  Most VTMB fans say LaCroix does not make a good Ventrue due to his childish tantrums when he doesn't get his way.  I agree with the tantrums.  But I think just by the way he carries himself and the way he talks with his snotty attitude.  To me he's just another corporate asshole with an overinflated ego which imo fit the Ventrue clan.

VV gets nothing from "manipulating" the fledgling though.


I think the point about her character is that anyone can be reasonably cautious and scared to deal with her, but in the end it turns out that her goals were honest and she is the kind of kindred that somehow finds it in her cold, dead heart... to care for others, even for the fledgling himself/herself 

[Malkav]

Talyn: I doubt that VV is sincere, it's calculation on her part - 'Let's get the fledgling to do my dirty work'. I was really rude a few times to her and it is interesting, how her mask slips then. But nowadays I'm being nice to get the photo and sell it for good money.

As a melee player I don't need the money I can get for the photo, so I can afford to be rude. And she deserves it. She tries to appear so deep, but in reality it's just a puddle.

[Talyn82]

You're most likely right.  She does get me to kill the hunter and tries to get me to kill Julius.  Aside from the hunter I don't kill Julius I just tell him to get out of town.  It's just since I never played the table top rpg I don't know how Toreador should be like.

It's like LaCroix who Malkav mentions above.  Most VTMB fans say LaCroix does not make a good Ventrue due to his childish tantrums when he doesn't get his way.  I agree with the tantrums.  But I think just by the way he carries himself and the way he talks with his snotty attitude.  To me he's just another corporate asshole with an overinflated ego which imo fit the Ventrue clan.

VV gets nothing from "manipulating" the fledgling though.


I think the point about her character is that anyone can be reasonably cautious and scared to deal with her, but in the end it turns out that her goals were honest and she is the kind of kindred that somehow finds it in her cold, dead heart... to care for others, even for the fledgling himself/herself 

She does gain in that there is one less hunter in Hollywood, and the Masquerade is kept.  I just don't know how a Toreador is supposed to act.  I know that they are into high society and the finer things in life like art and good wine.  But personality wise I don't know.  Ash does not care whether he lives or dies.  Isaac like I said is old school Hollywood and all business.  Bishop Vick was insane.  VV to me seems to fit that delicate facade the female Toreador most likely use for seduction.  I just don't know.  Other than that I have no problem with her.  At least she's better than Ash.

[Highwayman667]

She does gain in that there is one less hunter in Hollywood, and the Masquerade is kept.  I just don't know how a Toreador is supposed to act.  I know that they are into high society and the finer things in life like art and good wine.  But personality wise I don't know.  Ash does not care whether he lives or dies.  Isaac like I said is old school Hollywood and all business.  Bishop Vick was insane.  VV to me seems to fit that delicate facade the female Toreador most likely use for seduction.  I just don't know.  Other than that I have no problem with her.  At least she's better than Ash.

The toreador is the vampire that deals most closely with mortals, and because they spend so much time with them they know them better than most.

BUT... a toreador knows a mortal like a wolf knows a sheep  ... so eventually they learn to hone their skills to trick and manipulate mortals into becoming even more willing prey.

[Talyn82]

She does gain in that there is one less hunter in Hollywood, and the Masquerade is kept.  I just don't know how a Toreador is supposed to act.  I know that they are into high society and the finer things in life like art and good wine.  But personality wise I don't know.  Ash does not care whether he lives or dies.  Isaac like I said is old school Hollywood and all business.  Bishop Vick was insane.  VV to me seems to fit that delicate facade the female Toreador most likely use for seduction.  I just don't know.  Other than that I have no problem with her.  At least she's better than Ash.

The toreador is the vampire that deals most closely with mortals, and because they spend so much time with them they know them better than most.

BUT... a toreador knows a mortal like a wolf knows a sheep  ... so eventually they learn to hone their skills to trick and manipulate mortals into becoming even more willing prey.

Yeah that makes sense.  But they are full of surprises.  When I first read up on them I thought all Toreador were aligned with the Camarilla.  Since Camarilla equals the establishment vs Anarchs who equal rebellion, I just assumed they would be pro Cammy.   But then I played the game and met Isaac and VV.  They are both Toreador but are aligned with the Anarchs.


Oh I just remembered Isaac is pretty passionate himself.  He clearly loves Ash (and VV) and did not want him to die from his overdose.  Bishop Vick was passionate about his cult.  Okay so those are other good examples of Toreadors. 

[fylimar]

A Toreador on Sabbat side can be worse than the most torture hungry Tzimisce, since they consider torture an art ... just saying. I once played a Toreador in CQM and sided with Andrei. She had a conversation with him about his creations being the most beautiful art - she really went full dark side. That was fun.
About VV: She does get something from the fledgling: They do the dirty work for her and she can stay hidden, if things go south. Might be a clever move, but I love to be Miss Smartypants and call her out about it. She really doesn't like that.
Both Bishop Vic and Jezebel Locke from that cult are Toreador and they use their abilities well. Jezebel with seduction (Hannah), Vic with sheer presence.
Btw: I also don't like Ash that much. He might be well written in his charcaterization, but he is so getting on my nerves with his 'I can end it now'-bullshit. And then you have to save him twice. One time, I just left him in his cage, I was so fed up with him.

[Highwayman667]

About VV: She does get something from the fledgling: They do the dirty work for her and she can stay hidden, if things go south. Might be a clever move, but I love to be Miss Smartypants and call her out about it. She really doesn't like that.

It's in the realm of possibility but why does she write those love poems, give you pictures and constantly plays tease ? It's because she's attracted to the fledgling. Maybe she senses something in his/her blood but she is not as manipulative as say... Jack or Strauss.

It's entirely reasonable she doesn't fight as well and thus is legitimately asking for a hand against the vampire hunter.

I also don't like Ash that much. He might be well written in his charcaterization, but he is so getting on my nerves with his 'I can end it now'-bullshit. And then you have to save him twice. One time, I just left him in his cage, I was so fed up with him.

I might be THE ONLY person that feels bad for Ash Rivers. Truly


He's kind of annoying but put yourself in his place: your greatest desire is to be a famous actor.


Now you can't act... and you can't be a public figure. It's understandable he would resent Isaac.

[Nanaloma]

I always

A Toreador on Sabbat side can be worse than the most torture hungry Tzimisce, since they consider torture an art ... just saying. I once played a Toreador in CQM and sided with Andrei. She had a conversation with him about his creations being the most beautiful art - she really went full dark side. That was fun.
About VV: She does get something from the fledgling: They do the dirty work for her and she can stay hidden, if things go south. Might be a clever move, but I love to be Miss Smartypants and call her out about it. She really doesn't like that.
Both Bishop Vic and Jezebel Locke from that cult are Toreador and they use their abilities well. Jezebel with seduction (Hannah), Vic with sheer presence.
Btw: I also don't like Ash that much. He might be well written in his charcaterization, but he is so getting on my nerves with his 'I can end it now'-bullshit. And then you have to save him twice. One time, I just left him in his cage, I was so fed up with him.

I always assumed Vick was a Brujha. 

[Talyn82]

I always

A Toreador on Sabbat side can be worse than the most torture hungry Tzimisce, since they consider torture an art ... just saying. I once played a Toreador in CQM and sided with Andrei. She had a conversation with him about his creations being the most beautiful art - she really went full dark side. That was fun.
About VV: She does get something from the fledgling: They do the dirty work for her and she can stay hidden, if things go south. Might be a clever move, but I love to be Miss Smartypants and call her out about it. She really doesn't like that.
Both Bishop Vic and Jezebel Locke from that cult are Toreador and they use their abilities well. Jezebel with seduction (Hannah), Vic with sheer presence.
Btw: I also don't like Ash that much. He might be well written in his charcaterization, but he is so getting on my nerves with his 'I can end it now'-bullshit. And then you have to save him twice. One time, I just left him in his cage, I was so fed up with him.

I always assumed Vick was a Brujha. 

In both the White Wolf wiki and the Bloodlines wiki it says Bishop Vick and Jezebel Locke are Toreador.  First time I played I instantly knew Jezebel was a Toreador, Bishop Vick on the other hand surprised me.  I thought he was some other clan.  I also thought he was teleporting until I found out it was Celerity.

[Nanaloma]

OK; he just seemed more Brujha to me in his reactions and, of course, having celerity.  Sometimes it's hard to tell :)  . 

[Talyn82]

OK; he just seemed more Brujha to me in his reactions and, of course, having celerity.  Sometimes it's hard to tell :)  . 

No problem buddy.  At first I though he was from another clan cause Toreador are supposed to be beautiful.  But Bishop Vick was filthy and diseased.  Not something Toreador's strive for I assume.

[Talyn82]

@Highwayman667:  I too wish she was sincere and she might be who knows.   She is an attractive woman who supposedly is infatuated with our character.  But according to Rosa there are only two npc's that are trustworthy.  Mercurio (the man on the couch) and Beckett (the Lone Wolf).  All the npc's from LaCroix to Jack seek to use you no matter how nice they appear to be.  Also according to Bertram Tung there are no good guys when it comes to vamps and their politics.  Beckett is the exception because he chooses to stay out of it.  Mercurio is LaCroix' ghoul but he is old fashion and has a code of honor.  He will help you even if it means he will grow old and die eventually.  Jack avoids politics too, but he also likes to go around and stir shit up in Camarilla controlled states.

[Talyn82]

@fylimar:  You are correct.  I remember seeing a lore video on the Toreador by Outstar, and remember her saying they are one of the creepiest clans apart of the Camarilla.  They do view torture as art.  I'm not into the Anne Rice type of vamps.  I've only seen two movies based on her books.  One was 'Interview with a Vampire', and the other I forgot it's name.  But I remember Tom Cruise' character Lestat was pretty macabre.  Although I do like the concept of a monster behind the pretty face.