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Offline 4ngelgirl

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2020, 11:36:31 pm »
Such a hard question! I'd say that this would be my initial answer:


1. Hollywood
2. Santa Monica
3. Downtown
4. Chinatown


...but tbh, the more I think about it, the tougher the choice becomes and the more I question my order :,D Each hub is wonderful!
https://www.bloodlines2.com/?ref=0446f68b6c42 - if you don't have a Paradox account yet, please help me by using my referral link - it would mean a lot, thank you! ♥

For more info about my vtm characters, clisk here - https://toyhou.se/4ngel/characters/folder:1250751

Offline page

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2020, 09:01:26 am »
4. Chinatown
Nothing mysterious about it. Poor, plastic, kitsch design. Lack of atmosphere. Bad characters. Bad, generic names. No depth. No sympathy for them. Increasinly annoying Ming Xiao. Meh quests. Doesn't feel like World of Darkness to me. Stupid tests at Fu Syndicate.The only redeeming quality is Mr. Ox, at least there is some mystery around him, even if his quests are tiny 60 seconds affairs.

-gap-

2b. Hollywood
Strip clubs. Hookers. Snuff films. Adult stores. Models. Peep shows. Hollywood is ROTTEN to the bone and they definitely managed to drive this point home  :cool: It's where people go to make their dreams happen, but in reality, most of them end up dirty and broken. At least in WOD.I love the corruption there, as well as nods to Golden Age Hollywood (Ginger Swan, Isaac) and zombie/slasher flicks at the cemetary. I think there is a good mixture of dark and amusing elements.
The main storyline - sniffing around the Sin Bin, DMP, Kings Way massacre and finally Nosferatu Warrens odyssey - is a bumpy road for sure. At times it's too much combat oriented, would be nice if there was an alternative way of finding Gary (circumventing Isaac and tape quests), there should be more open-endedness in general.

2a. Downtown
It's a bi*ch to navigate, long walks everywhere, and some places just beg to be more open. I'm talking about Nocturne Theatre - just one subquest there - and the yuuuuge building in front of Venture Tower. God I wish they put it to a good use.Aside from that, it's mostly great stuff. Maybe one redundant quest from Fat Larry, but the rest is gold. Confession is legendary, so is Last Round. Tremere Chantry - lovely, atmospheric place, would be nice to expand this idea. I liked lurking around Skyeline Apartments (the first 10 times) as well as plaguebearer quests, pure WOD.
Main storyline - Elizabethan Rendezvous, Calling Dr. Grout, Patron of the Ancient Arts - is just top notch. At this stage of the game I'm VERY involved and enjoy every bit of it.

1. Santa Monica
This is the reason we come back to Bloodlines so often I think. Not many games I know are so inviting and captivating during early chapters. For some reason, Santa Monica is the most dreamlike AND realistic place in the whole game. On one hand, we have this great clinic to explore (some ordinary e-mails, late night calls, tired physician), and a bunch of other routine businesses i.e. pawn shop, bail bonds, diner... very down to earth, a bit gritty, blue collar stuff. On the other, there are completely off-the-hook Voerman sisters, ghastly abandoned hotel, The Asylum - gruesome, gothic stuff, so much unlike real life Santa Monica. The blend is perfect though, I feel this place, love exploring it or just hanging out.
When it comes to quests, don't get me started. Slashterpiece, Carnival of Death intro & climax, Kilpatrick jobs, Vandal, and the Hotel itself... Pure love. Numerous dialogues, interesting playstyle choices between hacking, persuading, sneaking & combat, and it really took me 3-4 playthroughs to let it all sink.

Santa Monica is just vivid, rich, and very much inspiring. Even the apartment upstairs, with Lacuna Coil poster and run down TV set feels just right.




« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 09:06:33 am by page »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2020, 12:05:11 pm »
I'm talking about Nocturne Theatre - just one subquest there - and the yuuuuge building in front of Venture Tower. God I wish they put it to a good use.
The building across the Venture Tower is the Public Library and we did the best we could to restore it in the plus version of the Unofficial Patch.

Offline page

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2020, 12:29:30 pm »
I'm talking about Nocturne Theatre - just one subquest there - and the yuuuuge building in front of Venture Tower. God I wish they put it to a good use.
The building across the Venture Tower is the Public Library and we did the best we could to restore it in the plus version of the Unofficial Patch.

It's true, and I adore this subquest, especially for
Spoiler for Hiden:
nice looking interiors and Lasombra boss fight!
It occured to me you fleshed it out in UP years ago only after I made a comment. Speaking of which - can you tell me how this idea came up in the first place? You found some hints of Public Library subquest in game files?

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2020, 12:59:03 pm »
It occured to me you fleshed it out in UP years ago only after I made a comment.
I can't remember you being involved, but then this was years ago.

Quote
Speaking of which - can you tell me how this idea came up in the first place? You found some hints of Public Library subquest in game files?
Yes, the first hint was the library card texture which is called Beckett's card internally and thus gave me both the location and a main character that might be involved. Later I noticed that the chandelier I previously restored into Grout's Mansion with some other stuff was a replica of the one in the famous LA public library atrium and some of the wall paintings were among the unused textures too. Also I remembered an interview here in which Brian Mitsoda said, that the big building across the Venture Tower was the public library which was cut early on. So I emailed him about details and this is what he answered: "The library design never even made it into an alpha stage. It was discussed, part of the level was built, but there was never any finalized quest plans or layout. There was some idea of it being a side quest connected to one of the major characters and the Sabbat, but it never really got beyond that. There was also some discussion of an optional boss there, but that was never designed fully. My memory fails me on a lot of the finer details since it was never a major focus of design." The major character was Beckett, as the card texture showed and I improvised the rest about a Sabbat mini boss. At that time burgermeister figured out how to create maps, so I mailed him a layout and he built it for me. He even drove to LA to get a look at the original!
BTW, I'm pretty sure the underground chamber was originally intended for the Giovanni crypt, but as it was already displayed on the back of the retail package, I thought it would be great to restore it to fit the lines on there. All the other small quest steps before going there came later, when we learned more and more how to map!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 01:01:10 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline page

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2020, 01:27:17 pm »
Quote from: Wesp5
I can't remember you being involved, but then this was years ago.
I wasn't involved! I'm just speaking about this particular thread and comment I made just a few hours ago ^^ Maybe I phrased it in a confusing manner. So, I commented on Nocturne Theater and Library being "kinda empty", and soon after realized that Library was actually a setting for Lasombra quest in UP. My bad :)

Quote from: Wesp5
Yes, the first hint was the library card texture which is called Beckett's card internally and thus gave me both the location and a main character that might be involved. Later I noticed that the chandelier I previously restored into Grout's Mansion with some other stuff was a replica of the one in the famous LA public library atrium and some of the wall paintings were among the unused textures too. Also I remembered an interview here in which Brian Mitsoda said, that the big building across the Venture Tower was the public library which was cut early on. So I emailed him about details and this is what he answered: "The library design never even made it into an alpha stage. It was discussed, part of the level was built, but there was never any finalized quest plans or layout. There was some idea of it being a side quest connected to one of the major characters and the Sabbat, but it never really got beyond that. There was also some discussion of an optional boss there, but that was never designed fully. My memory fails me on a lot of the finer details since it was never a major focus of design." The major character was Beckett, as the card texture showed and I improvised the rest about a Sabbat mini boss. At that time burgermeister figured out how to create maps, so I mailed him a layout and he built it for me. He even drove to LA to get a look at the original!
BTW, I'm pretty sure the underground chamber was originally intended for the Giovanni crypt, but as it was already displayed on the back of the retail package, I thought it would be great to restore it to fit the lines on there. All the other small quest steps before going there came later, when we learned more and more how to map!
This is actually fascinating. The way you started investigating, browsed interviews with Mitsoda, connected the dots - and then build a level with Burgermeister, including an actual visit LA Library, simply fantastic!

Where can I find more cool stories about UP development?  :cool: I think it's scattered among numerous threads here...

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2020, 01:38:31 pm »
Where can I find more cool stories about UP development?  :cool: I think it's scattered among numerous threads here...
Maybe, but a lot of course went on in emails between me and others. I'm almost contemplating making some videos about basic vs  plus patch to give some insight about the changes, but then I hear my German accent and don't do it ;).
As for other fascinating stories, the one about the Chateau Hotel is cool. There always were some models and textures connected to something called Chateau or shortened cm and I build a small section in the Malkavian Maze with those, when EntenSchreck stumbled about pictures of the Chateau Marmont in Hollywood and we immediately recognized that this was it! Again I wrote Mitsoda about our find and he answered: "The Chateau was probably built for an earlier build, but was dropped as a location in the game before I came on board." So he didn't know anything and EntenSchreck recreated the outside for the Prelude mod and I created the inside, because I convinced him to use it in the Anarch ending of the plus patch. As with the library we used photos to get the atmosphere right!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 01:41:33 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline thewarsend

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2020, 07:06:48 pm »
Is there any other maps left that we could restore? (I really wish I could dig deeper into the cut content, I am sure there are still more of it.)

By the way, how do you even connect these maps to hubs without editing the hubs themselves?

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2020, 07:58:31 pm »
Is there any other maps left that we could restore?
Not really. There are textures referring to "law" and "bunker" buildings and Rik Schaffer told us that an East LA latino style hub was planned and cut right from the start.

Quote
By the way, how do you even connect these maps to hubs without editing the hubs themselves?
The library is accessed through a sewer hatch and the chateau during the taxi ride. It's possible to do something like this only by adding some entities with VPKTools.

Offline thewarsend

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2020, 08:34:42 pm »
Not really. There are textures referring to "law" and "bunker" buildings and Rik Schaffer told us that an East LA Latino style hub was planned and cut right from the start.

I can pretty much guess where the "bunker" might be located. (And I wouldn't say it has anything to do with the East LA Latino style hub. It seems obvious to me, but as always, I might be wrong.) but I have absolutely no idea what "law" could be referring to. Some sort of Police station maybe?

The library is accessed through a sewer hatch and the chateau during the taxi ride. It's possible to do something like this only by adding some entities with VPKTools.

So if I wanted to add an entrance from the hub itself, it wouldn't work?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 08:37:39 pm by thewarsend »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2020, 09:50:55 pm »
I can pretty much guess where the "bunker" might be located.
Please tell me. I restored some textures of it into the Giovanni crpyt and Grout's mansion.

Quote
I have absolutely no idea what "law" could be referring to. Some sort of Police station maybe?
They look more fitting for a courthouse building to me.

Quote
So if I wanted to add an entrance from the hub itself, it wouldn't work?
It would work if you choose the right place. As an example take a look at the library entrance...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 10:03:22 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline thewarsend

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2020, 10:23:21 pm »
Please tell me. I restored some textures of it into the Giovanni crpyt and Grout's mansion.
See the below image, this area always looked weird to me. It would make sense if it was a bunker entrance of some sort. Ruined walls around it support this idea.
Like I said, I could always be wrong, but it looks like it should serve a similar purpose regardless.


They look more fitting for a courthouse building to me.
I have never seen those textures in person, though I will look into it. In some places textures for a Police station and a courthouse could be interchangeable (depending on the textures really). Though you might be right.


It would work if you choose the right place. As an example take a look at the library entrance...
I can't seem to remember where the library entrance was. I will check it out.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2020, 10:40:10 pm »
See the below image, this area always looked weird to me. It would make sense if it was a bunker entrance of some sort. Ruined walls around it support this idea.
Could be. But are there even bunker in LA and if so, what was supposed to be inside? An empty bunker isn't fun and I can't think of anything important there!

Offline Nanaloma

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2020, 05:44:07 am »
Laura Croft would disagree.  :)

Offline thewarsend

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Re: Favorite Hub?
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2020, 10:20:13 am »
Could be. But are there even bunker in LA and if so, what was supposed to be inside? An empty bunker isn't fun and I can't think of anything important there!





We don't have enough information to do anything with it either way, but as always, it is fun to speculate what it might have been.


I have been trying to find something that resembles this area in Los Angeles to figure out why it was build like this. It would make at least some sense if it was a bunker of some sort.

 

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