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Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2017, 08:19:49 AM »
Either way, we should see more of VV and Gary in dialogue... both imply later interactions but none deliver in my opinion. I don't find VV annoying really; it was rather refreshing (and frankly surprising) to find a kindred still immersed in the human world to her degree and that is far more benevolent than others. This can be argued a bit since she asks the PC to eliminate the betrayer that purveyed inside information on kindred, but even if you convince Julius to leave LA and do not kill him, she will not ask for bloody proof. Because of this I am fond of her as a character quite a bit and want to see more of her. ;) Kindred do not need to be murderers to be interesting.
Some also argue that both the Voerman sisters are also irritating but really that is the name of the vamp clandestine game: manipulation in one particular way or another.
The meaning of elegance is not to be noticed, it is to be remembered.

Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2017, 03:29:11 PM »
Jeanette and VV both use their sexuality to manipulate the player character while Terease just holds things over your head and acts like a bitch. Gary is simply interesting.
This is the darkness. This is my domain. Surrounded by little things that live in the light, clinging to feeble fires, which die in the end. Only the darkness remains.

Offline InTech

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2017, 09:26:38 PM »
It's the World of Darkness everybody is a asshole on some level, it's all a subjective illusion as to who you consider a better person because they're all pretty awful people* really (not that I'm suggesting anybody here is an asshole, everybody is different with different personalities and emotional hang-ups, dislikes and things they can relate to etc, there's no shame in liking or disliking a character).
Chances are Bertum Tung for example (Edited because I'm Nosferatu racist) has done some nasty shit to survive at some point and establish a power base.

I think it's pretty weird how he was basically the only Vampire in a dying Santa Monica before the Sisters turned up, it's almost as if he might have been responsible.

*And to be clear they are excellent characters, just not great human beings.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:14:22 AM by InTech »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2017, 09:28:52 AM »
I think it's pretty weird how he was basically the only Vampire in a dying Santa Monica before the Sisters turned up, it's almost as if he might have been responsible.

Hm, I think you mean Bertram Tung by this and not Gary...

Offline InTech

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2017, 07:47:52 PM »
I think it's pretty weird how he was basically the only Vampire in a dying Santa Monica before the Sisters turned up, it's almost as if he might have been responsible.

Hm, I think you mean Bertram Tung by this and not Gary...
Edited it because I'm Nossie racist.

I've been thinking about a VV backstory/boss fight.

Velvet Velour's, real name Susan Varuca (Anglicised version of Hungarian name Vargha).
Originally from New England, a child of first generation Hungarian immigrants, butchers by trade.
Susan was embraced at the age of 18 in the (last) 'graduation' ceremony at her Catholic all-girls school on July 18th 1879.

The Situation Surrounding Her Embrace
There were two larger political factors that led to to her embrace:
  • The church wished to dissolve the school due to majority of urban development moving away from it, making it more difficult for students to attend and less profitable.
  • The Sabbat wished to recruit and the Order of St Blaise was happy to oblige as it would mean the students would lose their deposits.
As a student, she was considered excellent and known by the faculty for her aggressive romantic poetry which caught the attention of the chapel, run in-part by the Order of St Blaise.
After reading some of her poetry to a man 'shrouded in darkness' Susan became a 'Blaise Girl', a hall monitor essentially.

The Day of the Embrace
The faculty (largely flesh constructs or vampires at this point) announced that the school will be holding a special day of celebration for the 'last' students to attend (even though it wasn't slated for closure for another three years which you'd think would raise some red flags but no).
On 'Graduation', the Blaise Girls kept the students calm in the individual classrooms while the Sabbat attacked embracing en-mass, room-by-room.
Disturbed by screaming she lost control of her room and was sucker punched to the floor by the rioting teens.
When the Sabbat came to her she was alone in that room having failed in her mind, she met the man in the shadows again and was embraced willingly.

On rebirth within an hour of dying she took on the highly sexualised persona of Vivian Valour a fictional character in one of her (not as good as her poems) short stories.

The remaining students and some 'guests' managed to hold out in an abandoned part of the school where the Near-Do-Wells, a girl gang, had established a gambling den.
VV's Sire faced the final death trying to assault that hold out, and the Sabbat along with VV scattered soon after, as the literal Cavalry arrived on the scene alerted by residents who saw fire on the horizon.

As Part of The Sabbat
VV was part of Nomadic Sabbat pack its hierarchy consisting of a Giovanni who had taken charge despite not being a member of the Sabbat, "I am merely following the Path of Bones" was his response when pressed on the issue.
A Tzimisce of a lower generation who preferred to take a backseat role, despite being a very powerful Vampire acting as both Priest and Ductus since the Giovanni was their unofficial leader.
Over time they cut a swathe through the world but the Path of Bones combined with feelings that she was inadequate as a Toreador, VV greatly envied the Tzimisce and his Vicissitude.

Defection
When opportunity presented itself VV successfully Diablerized the Tzimisce and burned the rest of her pack.
While on fire, burning alive the Giovanni cursed her to "The dead will rise where ever you go".
After observing and documenting his final death (the last time she would do this) VV travelled to the place many doomed creatives seek; Hollywood.
And followed the path of Humanity from there on out.
Rumour has it some of her dancers are actually flesh constructs.

How This Results in a Boss Battle

Quest Start Location:
A computer in the Nosferatu Warrens
If you can hack it the computer gives you slightly more vague version of the above, basically the Nosferatu have worked out why the Zombies keep rising up, this has no consequences and no new quest yet.
However when you do the Library Quest you can talk to the Lasombra about the information you found.
A new quest starts "Susan Varuca's Bounty"

Solution:
1) Kill Vivian Valour
2) Talk Vivian into laying low for awhile.
3) Go back and kill the Lasombra

Opposition:
Dancers transform into flesh crafted warforms as does VV.

Reward:
1&2) Effectively become a Sabbat infiltrator so Sabbat ending is available without low humanity also big pile of cash.
3) Flesh crafted necklace that gives 1+ Dexterity 1+ Appearance
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 12:44:56 AM by InTech »

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2017, 07:42:11 AM »
Wow InTech - you took the matter seriously. ;) One question though: why did you chose Sabbat as her first "destination"?
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Offline InTech

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2017, 11:57:50 PM »
Wow InTech - you took the matter seriously. ;) One question though: why did you chose Sabbat as her first "destination"?
I'm a sucker for an "redemption"* narrative.**  :cometome:

*In quotes because that's not really the right word, she's still damned.

**Yes I am aware this is possible without leaving the Sabbat since it is an incredibly sprawling organisation with many facets some of which favour the 'Path of Humanity' system but brooding VV doesn't know that.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 01:26:21 PM by InTech »

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #67 on: July 30, 2017, 04:20:37 PM »
Wow InTech - you took the matter seriously. ;) One question though: why did you chose Sabbat as her first "destination"?
I'm a sucker for an "redemption"* narrative.**  :cometome:

*In quotes because that's not really the right word, she's still damned.

**Yes I am aware this is possible without leaving the Sabbat since it is an incredibly sprawling organisation with many facets some of which favour the 'Path of Humanity' system but brooding VV doesn't know that.

Why not aim at Galconda? That could be a real twist you know. ;)
The meaning of elegance is not to be noticed, it is to be remembered.

Offline InTech

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2017, 10:26:40 PM »
Why not aim at Galconda? That could be a real twist you know. ;)
I'm pretty sure she doesn't know about Galconda, and we've not met anybody on-screen who would know what Galconda actually 'is'.
Maybe Maximillian Strauss but he's never mentioned it (not that we gave him any reason to).

...

Edit: Actually this makes me wonder whether this could lead into another Quest after sending VV into hiding (which would more than likely be in the Tremere Chantry) you might be able to assist in some sort of 'cure' for the death curse by helping her go through Galconda...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 12:33:46 AM by InTech »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2017, 08:05:40 AM »
I don't know what this Galkonda is, but I think the whole thing of VV being ex-Sabbat is very far fetched. She has close connections to Isaac and he has a Sabbat problem and he doesn't involve her but uses a complete outsider? That makes no sense...

Offline InTech

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2017, 09:46:36 AM »
I don't know what this Galkonda is, but I think the whole thing of VV being ex-Sabbat is very far fetched. She has close connections to Isaac and he has a Sabbat problem and he doesn't involve her but uses a complete outsider? That makes no sense...
Maybe that's why he doesn't use her?
Distance from the issue is a common police decision plus they are Vampires after all and I would personally be worried that it might be a fake defection (there's a long history of this).

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2017, 07:15:10 PM »
I don't know what this Galkonda is, but I think the whole thing of VV being ex-Sabbat is very far fetched. She has close connections to Isaac and he has a Sabbat problem and he doesn't involve her but uses a complete outsider? That makes no sense...

Some official reading material on the subject. ;)

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Golconda_(VTM)

Also, this thing about VV having been closer to Sabbat could prove to be a delicious twist in a background story. Also, maybe it would make more sense that she had learned about Galconda but is unaware how to pursue it or where to turn to - yep, that could be in the aftermath of the game, you know, in the time after the retrieval of the sarcophagus and the credit roll. ;)
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Offline AngelsForever

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2017, 04:32:37 PM »
I woud like to get to know more about the Blood Guardian from the Gallery Noir! His apperance was so random and unexpected - it definitely left me with many questions! There wasn't even a single dialogue line about him later on though, which seemed a bit unnatural to me...I mean if it was me in the protagonist's place, I would be literally RAVING about the Blood Guardion to Therese, seeking some answers.

Offline Rubinia

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2017, 04:47:58 PM »
Well, PC tried to make Therese belive he wasn't responsible for Gallery destruction. She was furious and not really convinced. It would be risky to frankly admit: "Yes, I've ruined up your carefully planned plot of impressing other Kindred and showing off your artistic taste. Atop of that how did you dare to secure these damn paintings with bloody sanguine guardian? Only made business messy, Therese." It sounds fun but would really piss her off, as "she's control freak". She would feel you stepped out the line. If there was a place for final death because of misspoken word, it would be there.
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Offline AngelsForever

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2017, 05:27:33 PM »
Well, PC tried to make Therese belive he wasn't responsible for Gallery destruction. She was furious and not really convinced. It would be risky to frankly admit: "Yes, I've ruined up your carefully planned plot of impressing other Kindred and showing off your artistic taste. Atop of that how did you dare to secure these damn paintings with bloody sanguine guardian? Only made business messy, Therese." It sounds fun but would really piss her off, as "she's control freak". She would feel you stepped out the line. If there was a place for final death because of misspoken word, it would be there.

I suppose you're right, that would be risky ^^' But the PC could have asked after Therese calmed herself a bit and was all like "yeah, I know it was Jeanette who made you do it, I'm not mad anymore".

 

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