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Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2017, 08:51:03 AM »
To have Ming in service to the PC? This is a neat idea though a towering tentacle murder machine submitting to the player is a scenario that is hard to imagine. I am pretty much cool with Ming being defeated, ending her part with a "thud" to the ground. ;)
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Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2017, 07:49:38 AM »
Also, back to the topic. ;)
What do you think about Chunk and Arthur or any other minor character (Cal already got here a treatment)? Maybe their roles could be deepened somewhat and enriched with more background elements: there are some scattered clues about them (Arthur for example) but nothing more than their quests or some side information that is really difficult to go on in the long run. Conversation with Trip and Venus could be a bit more detailed; the minor characters in Chinatown (except Wong Ho) are also a potential that was left behind - Mr.Ox and his true nature have been the topic of debate here a lot for example, but that character is not used enough.
One more thing: that Giovanni mission is really always a disappointment when I play: so much wasted potential and/or not used. Maybe some mod in the future will "add" more lore behind it - the possibility of having conversation with Bruno and perhaps some other characters just to name a few.
The meaning of elegance is not to be noticed, it is to be remembered.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2017, 09:57:47 AM »
Maybe some mod in the future will "add" more lore behind it - the possibility of having conversation with Bruno and perhaps some other characters just to name a few.

This could indeed be done in a "sequel" kind of mod, showing what happens in LA after the incident. The main problem for me though would be the missing voice-overs!

Offline Radical21

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2017, 02:19:20 PM »
Maybe some mod in the future will "add" more lore behind it - the possibility of having conversation with Bruno and perhaps some other characters just to name a few.

This could indeed be done in a "sequel" kind of mod, showing what happens in LA after the incident. The main problem for me though would be the missing voice-overs!

There is an easy way to overcome that: 
Set the story some years away after the power in LA shifted and new players surfaced.
Get amateur or semi-pro voice actors that can reliably mimic some of the old characters or do decent voice acting for existing ones.

Offline Gurkhal

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2017, 10:37:42 AM »
I know that I would kill for a mod that made a Requiem version of the game, but I know that I'm probably alone in that here.

Anyway, more lore and stuff for the game would be awesome, as would adding more quests to explore the city and learn more about the various characters.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 07:23:07 PM by Wesp5 »

Offline Cain Sunderland

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2017, 08:12:01 PM »
No offense, but why are we concerned with voice overs? It's a nice immersive touch and all, but the Anti-Tribu mod does just fine with new text-only conversations. I am not sure I would want amateur voice acting because I've played many mods like that (like in Deus Ex) and it wasn't to my liking.

Gurkhal that would be a great idea! Imagine Lancea Et Sanctum in the game and how that could tie into Grunfeld Bach or even to religious roots that were in Vampire Redemption. Speaking of Redemption...

I just started playing it so I won't spoil it but from the get go there is also a character named Mercurio. I wish there was stronger ties between the Mercurio from Redemption and the Mercurio from Bloodlines, because they only seem to be related in name, and none of the wikis make any further reference about the relationship between the two Mercurios. Bloodlines Mercurio is the exact opposite of the one in Redemption, but I think perhaps they could share the same blood line...even though one is Cappadocian kindred and the other is a Camarilla ghoul, I think it could work. Since the Cappadocian clan is basically "extinct" (or at least very well hidden even from Kindred) due to the work of Augustus Giovanni, then the Cappadocian bloodline could have been mixed in with other blood lines and several centuries down the line the blood line could have been diluted enough so that Bloodlines Mercurio is basically human during the time of his birth and perhaps this extensive background could have interested La Croix enough to make him a ghoul.

Also Chunk is kind of interesting. He only appears in front of the museum that one night where you have to slash all the paintings, and even if you never come directly into contact with him, he will always tell you at La Croix's that he doesn't "know what came over" him, implying that he met you or knows you without you even having to interact with him. It's also pretty convenient for him to then show up downtown and suddenly be the "main" dude guarding La Croix's building. Plus if he dies, he gets replaced by his brother who looks the same but doesn't speak. It seems pretty odd to me. He's most likely a pawn and someone higher up is actively messing with/spying on the protagonist through several people like Chunk. Which brings me to my next point...

the Unknown person who keeps emailing you. You know, the one who keeps making all those Chess references? Perhaps this is a higher up that uses people like Chunk and even the protagonist as pawns in their game of Jyhad. Maybe he's Third or Fourth generation. It would be nice to get some more insight on that. What do y'all think?
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Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2017, 07:49:52 AM »
No offense, but why are we concerned with voice overs? It's a nice immersive touch and all, but the Anti-Tribu mod does just fine with new text-only conversations. I am not sure I would want amateur voice acting because I've played many mods like that (like in Deus Ex) and it wasn't to my liking.

Gurkhal that would be a great idea! Imagine Lancea Et Sanctum in the game and how that could tie into Grunfeld Bach or even to religious roots that were in Vampire Redemption. Speaking of Redemption...

I just started playing it so I won't spoil it but from the get go there is also a character named Mercurio. I wish there was stronger ties between the Mercurio from Redemption and the Mercurio from Bloodlines, because they only seem to be related in name, and none of the wikis make any further reference about the relationship between the two Mercurios. Bloodlines Mercurio is the exact opposite of the one in Redemption, but I think perhaps they could share the same blood line...even though one is Cappadocian kindred and the other is a Camarilla ghoul, I think it could work. Since the Cappadocian clan is basically "extinct" (or at least very well hidden even from Kindred) due to the work of Augustus Giovanni, then the Cappadocian bloodline could have been mixed in with other blood lines and several centuries down the line the blood line could have been diluted enough so that Bloodlines Mercurio is basically human during the time of his birth and perhaps this extensive background could have interested La Croix enough to make him a ghoul.

Also Chunk is kind of interesting. He only appears in front of the museum that one night where you have to slash all the paintings, and even if you never come directly into contact with him, he will always tell you at La Croix's that he doesn't "know what came over" him, implying that he met you or knows you without you even having to interact with him. It's also pretty convenient for him to then show up downtown and suddenly be the "main" dude guarding La Croix's building. Plus if he dies, he gets replaced by his brother who looks the same but doesn't speak. It seems pretty odd to me. He's most likely a pawn and someone higher up is actively messing with/spying on the protagonist through several people like Chunk. Which brings me to my next point...

the Unknown person who keeps emailing you. You know, the one who keeps making all those Chess references? Perhaps this is a higher up that uses people like Chunk and even the protagonist as pawns in their game of Jyhad. Maybe he's Third or Fourth generation. It would be nice to get some more insight on that. What do y'all think?

Several nice observations/suggestions here.

The mysterious "email sender" was (and still is to some extent) a subject of debate here. A whole lot of posts were dedicated to that issue (https://forums.planetvampire.com/bloodlines-games-general-discussion/mysterious-emails/). However, after all that discussing, I've made a conclusion for myself that it is maybe best left undisturbed and cryptic  in order not to lose flavor and/or appeal. Maybe someone shares this view with me.

The "Mercurio Duo" issue would be a curious experiment. Though it would be a tough parallel between the two, I do not see any cannon conflict or disparity. I vote for deepening the background of the character - if a connection of that type would be made it would be certainly awesome. Then Mercurio could be a whole lot more than a simple black market operator. As for Chunk, the addition of new dialogue lines would suffice if anything else. He is a comic relief character, makes you laugh from time to time.

Voice overs are a decent addition if done right in my opinion. I played various mods for many games and the absence of voice overs didn't trouble me much. As long as the story/dialogue is well executed I'm pleased. If voice overs are done by amateurs it doesn't need to mean that they are bad by default: many additions/mods/fanfics etc. are executed splendidly by fans that are not pros; give it a benefit of doubt if anything else.  ;)
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Offline Wesp5

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2017, 07:38:07 PM »
The mysterious "email sender" was (and still is to some extent) a subject of debate here.

We might get some more info about him from the Prelude. Otherwise I can only say, less talk more work! Why don't you create a sequel mod like you are talking about? It's not as hard as it had been due to the SDK...

Offline Gurkhal

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2017, 09:45:01 AM »
Its nice to see that I'm not the only Requiem fan around here,, Cain Sunderland. :) And a Sanctified dialogue with Bach could be very interesting. Same with a Sanctified dialogue with Andrei where the player lectures Andrei on the meaning and way of being a proper monster. That could be really good stuff.

But I do like that there are mysteries which are not resolved but allowing us to form our own minds on who is behind them.

Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2017, 08:16:11 PM »
The mysterious "email sender" was (and still is to some extent) a subject of debate here.

We might get some more info about him from the Prelude. Otherwise I can only say, less talk more work! Why don't you create a sequel mod like you are talking about? It's not as hard as it had been due to the SDK...

Thanks for the idea and although I am not a skilled pc mage, I will try to learn something this summer. However, the change of the mystery behind that enigmatic "emailer" ;) wouldn't sit properly with me though. Still, maybe I can work on character background deepening... I always find that element dangerously lacking.
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Offline Raving_Neonate

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2017, 07:00:09 AM »
Back on track.
I have several questions about the following characters:

1. Should Mr.Ox get more quests? I think that he is seriously unused in the original game, maybe throw in a bit more info on him. Also one thing occurred to me: next to the noodle shop to its right, there is a huge vault-like old building... maybe something there.

2. Tseng. Maybe a bit more involvement. He is seriously just stock and store... maybe give him a little side quest like the assassins got.

3. This is what I always wanted: the opportunity to talk to Gary more than once with additional lines of dialogue. I would even settle for the payphone variant, as long as there is an option. Besides that, VV could also get a "reappearance" after her quest instead of dancing.
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Offline Malkav

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2017, 10:31:12 AM »
Hm, talking to VV again would never happen to me. I always do the job right. That means I destroy all copies of the script, including the one under Hatter's hat. And of course I tell VV. The bitch is so annoying, she needs that...
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Offline The Shadow Man

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2017, 01:56:42 PM »
So people like Chunk? I find him annoying, he won't shut up and its not like he has anything for interesting or clever to say.
I agree that Mr Ox needs more quests and it seems odd and frustrating to me that Gary says "Come back and see me." even though you can't, maybe you bang his gong to make him reappear.

As for the Redemption related suggestions, I should start this by saying that while I like the story-line of Redemption I found the game-play annoying and unsatisfying.
The idea of merging the two Mercuios sounds interesting, leaves room for an interesting quest or two or what have you.
As for a Redemption conversion mod, this could work well as long as the quests and game-play are more like Bloodlines in general. To further explain what I mean, Redemption game-play was really difficult for me and this was with  excessive cheating as such I've only completed it once and that was with the 'bad ending'. The game-play also seemed to lack any real creativity, aside from the occasional bit of random dialogue and walking around, the game-play mainly consisted of being severely out manned and out gunned which led to me having to run through levels to get based the extremely large hordes of unrealistically strong enemies. In fact Redemption game-play seemed to me to be mostly the same as what everyone seems to not like about the Bloodlines end game, except much more difficult.
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Offline IanW

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2017, 04:53:48 AM »
Hm, talking to VV again would never happen to me. I always do the job right. That means I destroy all copies of the script, including the one under Hatter's hat. And of course I tell VV. The bitch is so annoying, she needs that...

IIRC when you initially talk to her about Hatter's script, she says "I promise, if you do this for me, you'll have my full attention." Which implies that there may be more interactions beyond her sending love poetry via email.

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Offline Malkav

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Re: Developing a Character through More Lore or Quests...
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2017, 09:30:32 AM »
Not if you kill Hatter and tell her. Then she tells you to leave and never come back.
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