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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines => Bloodlines Games General Discussion => Topic started by: [archive] s4nct1m0ny on February 13, 2007, 12:10:00 PM

Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] s4nct1m0ny on February 13, 2007, 12:10:00 PM
                In the last dialogue with Andrei, I remember him saying something like, "I could smell the essence of your blood, even over the flood of my fallen brethren, very potent? Doesn't that make you wonder?"
 
 Subtlety evades me, but all I can understand is the following:
 1) Andrei has a mystical connection with other members of the Sabbat, which is why he feels their death.
 2) Your vampire has very "potent" blood.
 3) It was so potent that it overrode the feeling he had when the members of the Sabbat were dying.
 4) He also says, "The strength of your blood is all that saved you from yourself." Which is pretty much him saying that my lack of "beastly"-ness weakened me and that the only reason I survived through the hotel was because of the strength of the player character's blood.
 
 So I am guessing that your character is supposed to be special. He has powerful blood. But what I don't understand is why or how he is so powerful? Acquired? Inherited? How so, either way? Is there a reason for the potence of the character's blood? Is there any relevance of this to the story?
 
 Is there an answer to this without speculating deeply and considering only what we know from the surface?
 
 PS: Please don't give the usual nonsense of "Use the Search function". Nobody is forcing you to reply.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] ElGostro on February 13, 2007, 01:47:00 PM
                A function of search ye must use!
 
 hehehes,a joke of utmost poorness,but bout the feelin deaths of other clan members that be cuz sabbat bloodbod each others all rounds as practice most common n requires ta be in the house o frat!                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 13, 2007, 03:48:00 PM
                Someone mentioned in another thread (can't remember which one) that your PC seems unusually strong for a fledgling, and they were always hoping that it would be explained.  I feel the same way.  Someone also wondered if there was more to LaCroix's execution of your sire than a simple matter of illegal progeny, that perhaps your sire was more powerful than implied and he/she and LaCroix were in some type of power struggle.  I always wondered about LaCroix's line in the end game when you fight against him:  "Like sire like childe.  I should have killed you when I had the chance."  A strange thing for him to say considering in the opening cinematic he referred to your sire as a "loyal and upstanding member of our organization."  That, among a few other things mentioned in the game, make me wonder if there's not a backstory that was dropped.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Slaydin on February 13, 2007, 04:29:00 PM
                In Reply To #3
 
 That was your's truly. It was a big long dispute and we never reached a conclusion.
 
 http://www.forumplanet.com/planetvampire/topic.asp?fid=9655&tid=1874300
 
 [added Feb 13 2007 11:32AM]
 
 Heh. That was also before I became such a World of Darkness buff.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 13, 2007, 04:38:00 PM
                Yup, that was the thread.  I always felt from my first gameplay that your character was something more, and was rather disappointed that it was never explained.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Starrathiel on February 13, 2007, 05:35:00 PM
                Hmm ..
 
 
s4nct1m0ny posted:

 "I could smell the essence of your blood, even over the
 flood of my fallen brethren, very potent? Doesn't that
 make you wonder?"

 
 *Smirk* Truthfully it made my character wonder. It made
 her wonder about the sudden irresistable impulse to put
 her flamethrower away in the Acme (tm) Bag of Holding. It
 also made her wonder about the fuel level remaining in the
 weapon, her ability to quick-draw it, or for that matter
 if enough of him would remain to create a nice purse or
 pair of boots.
 
 Oh well .. As for Andrei, the moronic lizard always had a
 flair for the overly dramatic.
 
 

1) Andrei has a mystical connection with other
 members of the Sabbat, which is why he feels their death.
 

 
 Or he simply comes to the awfully painfully obvious
 conclusion that since the character has arrived his
 brainless minions were unable to succesfully stand in
 her way. Add to that the "FOOMPF" of the Flamethrower
 and the rattling and bangs of the various noisemakers
 your character carries as well as a death cry or two
 could lead him to conclude that it is unlikely the bulk
 of his minions survived.
 
 Add to this that your character already opened a rather
 sizeable can of "whup-hiny" on him before and the
 conclusion about the characters ability is easily made.
 After all .. come now .. by this time your characters
 reputation for rampaging through the opposition like an
 elephant on a speed overdose already precedes her.
 
 

2) Your vampire has very "potent" blood.

 
 After all, he could not by any chance admit that it might
 have been the advanced combat skills of your character
 alone that defeated him and his minions. That would be
 so .. not done .. to admit that he is simply incompetent
 compared to your character.
 
 Pfui! Who was the moronic lizard trying to convince?
 Himself or the character?
 
 

3) It was so potent that it overrode the feeling
 he had when the members of the Sabbat were dying.

 
 That is called "fear" and has nothing to do with the
 potency of the characters blood. While the idea may
 certainly stroke the ego of your character you should
 take his claims with a grain of salt. He is just confused.
 
 

4) He also says, "The strength of your blood is
 all that saved you from yourself."

 
 Nothing more than a self fulfilling piece of bluster to
 mask his own fright in his final moments. It could just
 as easily be a referral to the characters willpower. Just
 because some characters have a flair for expressing
 themselves in an overly dramatic way does by no means
 indicate that your character should be remotely impressed
 by it, or for that matter put any stock in those claims.
 
 *End of Line*
                       

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 13, 2007, 06:43:00 PM
                But Andrei isn't the only one who notices that you seem unusually powerful for such a young fledgeling.  Strauss mentions it as well in his letter in your first haven.
 
 And assuming that it's only your superior skill and firepower that enable you to be so powerful, where the heck did you get those skills?  Nothing in the game indicates that you possessed sharpshooting skills before your embrace.  And while vampires have heightened dexterity, strength, etc., that still does not explain how you are powerful enough at so young an age to stomp the snot out of elders hundreds of years older than you, or hordes of VERY well-trained mortals and vampires.  Not to mention taking out a werewolf, which is rare for experienced vampires as it is (even Nines, who is older than you, came out slightly worse for wear than the PC does).
 
 There are just many other clues besides Andrei's little monologue that indicate that the PC is something beyond the normal newbie.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] arathalion_5 on February 13, 2007, 08:50:00 PM
                In Reply To #1
 andrei gets a kick out of saying these things... though he might have a good sense of smell.
 
 the more i think about it, the more i like the whole withering argument. that would also explain why lacriox couldnt dominate you at the end.
 
 oh, and just cause the search function is crappy doesn't excuse from searching for existing threads.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] s4nct1m0ny on February 14, 2007, 04:26:00 AM
                In Reply To #6
 So what you're saying is...Andrei's full of shit.
 
 I suppose it's viable that Andrei just says things to taunt you and make himself feel better. But then again, even though you killed all his minions, I doubt Andrei has reason to fear you. He doesn't know you have a fully loaded flamethrower under your pack, and if you do not use it, Andrei's a pretty tough guy. Tough enough to say that he has no reason to fear you or anyone.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Slaydin on February 14, 2007, 06:21:00 AM
                In Reply To #7
 
 From a PnP perspective, the PC would likely have to face numerous challenges every single day without rest for at least several months to build up his skills. Technically, it IS possible to take down Elders in such a short time, but the PC would have absolutely no rest for quite a while, and we don't know what the time scale is in Bloodlines. In any case, you would not be able to kill the Sheriff. The Sheriff was 6th generation and the PC is 10th. There's just no contest. And Ming Xiao? Pfft. She is Daimo who has mastered the Demon Shintai, Flesh Shintai, and Jade Shintai. Considering her status and power, she is roughly the equivalent to a Kindred Methuselah. Everything was shewed so that the PC could win.
 
 In Reply To #6
 
Needle posted:

 

1) Andrei has a mystical connection with other
 members of the Sabbat, which is why he feels their death.
 

 
 Or he simply comes to the awfully painfully obvious
 conclusion that since the character has arrived his
 brainless minions were unable to succesfully stand in
 her way. Add to that the "FOOMPF" of the Flamethrower
 and the rattling and bangs of the various noisemakers
 your character carries as well as a death cry or two
 could lead him to conclude that it is unlikely the bulk
 of his minions survived.</quote>
 
 The PC was placed at the top of the building, but Andrei was in the basement and vampires' senses are only marginally enhanced. No, Andrei was referring to the Vinculum, the process of drinking other Sabbat members' blood so that they are mystically bound.
 
 
Needle posted:

 After all, he could not by any chance admit that it might
 have been the advanced combat skills of your character
 alone that defeated him and his minions. That would be
 so .. not done .. to admit that he is simply incompetent
 compared to your character.</quote>
 
 I think you are right on this one.
 
 <quote by="s4nct1m0ny">
 3) It was so potent that it overrode the feeling he had when the members of the Sabbat were dying.

 
 This is erroneous. He said that the smell of your potent blood was so strong it overrode the shed blood of his fellow Sabbat. Therefore, any statements addressing this is also erroneous.
 
 <quote by="s4nct1m0ny">
 4) He also says, "The strength of your blood is all that saved you from yourself." Which is pretty much him saying that my lack of "beastly"-ness weakened me and that the only reason I survived through the hotel was because of the strength of the player character's blood.

 
 No what he was saying was "You've been such a stupid lunkhead that it was only the strength of your blood that kept you from getting ass fried sooner."                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] arathalion_5 on February 14, 2007, 09:07:00 AM
                In Reply To #10
 

The PC was placed at the top of the building, but Andrei was in the basement and vampires' senses are only marginally enhanced. No, Andrei was referring to the Vinculum, the process of drinking other Sabbat members' blood so that they are mystically bound.
 

 actually, im not sure that the viniculum has that kind of effect.though i could be wrong about that. im going to have to re read that.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Skyra_to_Hollow on February 14, 2007, 10:10:00 AM
                My explanation is kind of a buzzkill...
 While writing the dialogue for Bloodlines, Brian Mitsoda faced the same paradox that every WoD storyteller faces: he had to convey a sense of achievement, because players get irritated by NPCs constantly referring to them as noobs.  At the same time, the writer has to reconcile the fact that uber-vampires don't get that way without centuries of experience.  The same thing happened in Redemption.  It seems pretty obvious that in the traditional WoD setting, no fledgling could rise up to Prince-Slayer status in the short time that the story takes place.  I think the entire storyline takes place in about a month.  The games have quite a few contradictions regarding this concept:
 - Christof was in torpor for about 99% of his unlife, yet he managed to whoop up on Orsi (and countless others), who presumably had tons and tons more experience than him.
 - The Bloodlines PC learns how to suck a rat one day, and the next day he's slaughtering hordes of Sabbat ghouls in the Santa Monica warehouse.  wtf?
 - After just a few weeks of unlife, you clear out a bazillion Tzimisce critters: something that an entire coterie of Nosferatu wouldn't even attempt (more than a coterie if Mitnick is telling the truth when he says that they're around, but you just don't see them).
 - I suspect that if your sire was somebody remotely famous or infamous, Jack would have definitely mentioned it at one point or another.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 14, 2007, 11:19:00 AM
                In Reply To #12
 
Skyra to Hollow posted:

 - I suspect that if your sire was somebody remotely famous or infamous, Jack would have definitely mentioned it at one point or another.

 
 No one said he was famous or infamous, just that he might have been more powerful than the opening cinematic would lead us to believe.  And LaCroix mentions that Jack arrived in town shortly before the PC did, so it's entirely possible that Jack didn't know much about the PC's sire.  Jack is a smart guy who keeps his ear to the ground, but even he doesn't know everything.  
 
 I always thought it was funny that LaCroix's hitmen show up right after your embrace, as if your sire were being watched.  Why would that be, if he's the "upstanding" member of the Camarilla that LaCroix claims him to be?  And if he isn't so upstanding, why would LaCroix lie about that?
 
 While I think it's most likely that your PC buffs up so quickly strictly for game enjoyment, there are still enough references in the game to your unusual resourcefulness, strength and skill when compared to your fellow, much older Kindred that it gave the impression that there was more to the PC's background than we were given.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Skyra_to_Hollow on February 14, 2007, 03:40:00 PM
                In Reply To #13
 Are you sure that wasn't Beckett that "just arrived in town?"  I remember the Prince saying that the Gangrel had just arrived, and that he had the courtesy to announce his presence.  I don't remember him saying that Jack was new, but I haven't played in a while so I'm probably missing something.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Slaydin on February 14, 2007, 06:04:00 PM
                In Reply To #11
 Any time a Kindred dies, all blood bonds to that vampire immediately break. Andrei merely felt a "lack" of mystical connections each time one of his own died.
 
 In Reply To #13
 LaCroix said that whatever city Jack ends up at, the city has some catastrophe that is attributed to him, which is true. But. Smiling Jack spends several years in each city before royally fucking the Cam over in that city. Jack's last stop was L.A. (L.A. By Night) and he has never left since. He even dies in L.A. during Gehenna. He was there several years before the PC came along. Your sire could be the one that was new to L.A. (and throwing a new twist to the story) as an Archon maybe? *notices the wide eyes from the PnP players who know what an Archon is* It would definitely explain everything: the low generation, the pain in LaCroix's ass, LaCroix having to say that bit about "upstanding member" and all that, etc.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] CaptainBoxman on February 14, 2007, 06:07:00 PM
                In Reply To #15
 The Archon thing would make sense, but it's a bit of a wild idea eh?                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 14, 2007, 06:44:00 PM
                In Reply To #14
 
Skyra to Hollow posted:

 In Reply To #13
 Are you sure that wasn't Beckett that "just arrived in town?"  I remember the Prince saying that the Gangrel had just arrived, and that he had the courtesy to announce his presence.  I don't remember him saying that Jack was new, but I haven't played in a while so I'm probably missing something.</quote>
 
 Now that you mention it, maybe it was Beckett. I thought that someone in another thread said that Jack had only recently arrived also (I believe it was the thread in which we discussed how he got the explosives inside the sarcophagus), but now I'm not so sure.
 
 
 In Reply To #15
 <quote by="Slayden">
 In Reply To #13
 LaCroix said that whatever city Jack ends up at, the city has some catastrophe that is attributed to him, which is true. But. Smiling Jack spends several years in each city before royally fucking the Cam over in that city. Jack's last stop was L.A. (L.A. By Night) and he has never left since. He even dies in L.A. during Gehenna. He was there several years before the PC came along.

 
 I haven't followed any of the other Vampire media, so I don't know any of Jack's background other than what is stated in the game.  You're probably right about him being there for years though (see reply above).
 
 

Your sire could be the one that was new to L.A. (and throwing a new twist to the story) as an Archon maybe? *notices the wide eyes from the PnP players who know what an Archon is* It would definitely explain everything: the low generation, the pain in LaCroix's ass, LaCroix having to say that bit about "upstanding member" and all that, etc.

 
 
 I don't recall any mention of the sire being new in town.  After thinking it over, I'm pretty sure I got the Jack idea from someone in another thread, and that they are most likely mistaken.
 
 And for someone who has never done the PNP, can you explain what an Archon is?                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] RakishAzrael on February 14, 2007, 06:45:00 PM
                In Reply To #17
 
katran posted:

 
 
 And for someone who has never done the PNP, can you explain what an Archon is?

 
 Me.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 14, 2007, 06:46:00 PM
                Well, that's helpful.  Want to spell it out for the newbie?                          

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] RakishAzrael on February 14, 2007, 06:54:00 PM
                guh, FINE.
 
 Slayden could do this better, but ill take a crack at it (with the help of WoD wiki). *ahem*:
 
 
 Archons are the hand-picked eyes and ears of the Justicars. They are the most visible and effective fist of the Camarilla, and are usually the most effective and deadly vampires that neonates of either sect are likely to encounter. Given the traditionally untrustworthy nature of vampiric society, Archons usually have their loyalty ensured artificially, such as being Blood Bound to their Justicar.
 
 Now you may be wondering, "What on EARTH is a Justicar?"
 
 The justicars are the most powerful visible component of the Camarilla's government, charged with adjudicating matters of the Traditions on a wide scale and acting as the eyes, ears, and hands of the Inner Circle. There is one justicar for each clan of the Camarilla.
 
 there you go :P                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 14, 2007, 07:01:00 PM
                Thanks.  
 
 So when you say one Justicar per clan, is that per city, or worldwide?                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] RakishAzrael on February 14, 2007, 08:02:00 PM
                worldwide.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 14, 2007, 08:54:00 PM
                Thanks.                          

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] RakishAzrael on February 14, 2007, 09:33:00 PM
                de nada                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Slaydin on February 14, 2007, 11:46:00 PM
                In Reply To #20
 
 Ha ha ha ha ha! I can hardly wait for you to get blood bound to Madame Guil! It's going to be so entertaining!
 
 Archons are usually invisible. Sometimes they take a spotlight role to intimidate on behalf of the Justicar, but this is not the norm. If an Archon reveals his nature, he will be virtually shunned out of the Elysium because no one will talk to him. Archons are typically spies more than anything. Heheheh, and your beloved Toreador Justicar Madame Guillotine is known for her brutal strategies and more than willing to sacrifice several of her 75 blood bound Archons to further her goals. After all, she can always have more, right? And she NEVER takes advice. Hehehe... Sorry for getting morbid there-- actually... no, I'm not. Dance puppet dance!
 
 Oh, and Justicars adjudicate in regions, not the world as a whole.
 
 Madame Guil (Toreador) -- Eastern North America
 
 Cock Robin (Nosferatu) -- Western North America and all of South America
 
 Anastasz di Zagreb (Tremere) -- Eastern Europe and Middle East
 
 Maris Streck (Malkavian) -- Western Europe
 
 Lucinde (Ventrue) -- Africa
 
 Jaroslav Pascek (Brujah) -- Asia and Australia (a small territory due to the Kuei-jin)
 
 Xavier (Gangrel) -- The last Gangrel Justicar. The Gangrel pulled out of the sect known as the Camarilla in February 1999. The Gangrel are an Independent Clan, not Camarilla.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] RakishAzrael on February 15, 2007, 12:52:00 AM
                In Reply To #25
 
 i hate you a little bit more every day slayden...                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] s4nct1m0ny on February 15, 2007, 03:46:00 AM
                In Reply To #25
 If Gangrels pulled out of the Camarilla, then why was there a Gangrel Primogen in the Prince's Office when the Primogen had gathered? There could only have been Brujah, Gangrel, Toreador, and Tremere Elders, of which the last is Maxmillain Strauss, and the rest are unknown. By the logic of deduction, those were the only Primogen who could have been there. The Prince is likely the Ventrue Primogen, and the Malkavian and Nosferatu Primogen were not present.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Slaydin on February 15, 2007, 05:48:00 AM
                In Reply To #27
 Bloodlines is FULL of disputations with the books. A Prince can never be a Primogen as the Primogen are act as a counterbalance to the Prince. Not only that, occasionally, if the city is big enough, there are multiple Primogen from each clan, taking a "seat" in their version of Parliament/Congress. Bloodlines has a good story and good gameplay, but there are numerous other things wrong with it as well. The Gangrel should not be in the game, the ONLY Disciplines that Troika got right was Potence and Fortitude (even Celerity got screwed up and Protean by far suffered the worst), the Sabbat are not brainless thugs (they're violent yet complex, not stupid), and many other things.
 
 In Reply To #26
 I know, sometimes I can be an However, that is the role of Archon and that IS Madame Guillotine's nature.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] StarWrecker. on February 15, 2007, 07:53:00 AM
                In Reply To #28
 Well, some of the Disciplines would be bloody hard to integrate perfectly into a game. Dominate and Presence come to mind, as they had to be really significantly tweaked to make them useful for combat.
 
 Hasn't Celerity always had a "bullet-time" effect? Or is it just a speed enhancement?                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] arathalion_5 on February 15, 2007, 08:17:00 AM
                skyra: it was jack that "just arrived in town" and had "shown the courtesy to announce his presence". if i remember correctly lacriox was a little surprised when you mention bekett being in town, and then says something to the effect that he had herd he was around the area....
 or perhaps it was the other way around, and he said that he had herd jack was around town... though i think that jack had actually presented himself... and lacriox was saying that he had the courtesy to do it in a rather distasteful manner.  
 
 slayden: i didnt think about that, lol
 
 yes, la had been jacks home for a few years, but perhaps he left for a little bit, then came back with a better hand. if i remember la by night was set before the tern of the melenium, though i could be wrong about that ass well... i was going to say 92... but dementation only came back in 87-88... and i cant remember if it is included in that book... though i would think not as i believe that the books corresponded to the years that they where released in.  
 
 s4nct1m0ny: why do you say that? just because of the numbers?
 
 while it could be mitsoda just not reading the revised gangrel clan book, it does not really matter, as all the primogen models from that were your standard ventrue pc models, in full armor+strauss... if i remember correctly 4+1... +1 =6... not seven. so there is one missing... gangrel? your statement of lacriox being ventrue primogen supports this.
 and yeah, otherwise i dont see any evidence to suggest that the gangrel are in the cam, other than them being in the default clan selection... but i dont think that really says anything
 
 slayden: no, the screwed up fortitude, as in bloodlines it gives auto successes, whereas in vtm it just gives extra dice.
 
 starwrecker: its just a speed enhancement. you get extra turns per turn.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 15, 2007, 02:06:00 PM
                In Reply To #27
 
s4nct1m0ny posted:

 In Reply To #25
 The Prince is likely the Ventrue Primogen....</quote>
 
 
 Just a side note, when I played as a male Malkavian, my female Ventrue PC was there, so I assume she was supposed to be the Ventrue primogen in that case.
 
 [added Feb 15 2007  9:49AM]
 
 In Reply To #30
 <quote by="arathalion">
 skyra: it was jack that "just arrived in town" and had "shown the courtesy to announce his presence". if i remember correctly lacriox was a little surprised when you mention bekett being in town, and then says something to the effect that he had herd he was around the area....
 or perhaps it was the other way around, and he said that he had herd jack was around town... though i think that jack had actually presented himself... and lacriox was saying that he had the courtesy to do it in a rather distasteful manner.  

 
 
 Okay, a search of LaCroix's dialogue files (all 274 of them; don't applaud, just throw money) turned this up:
 
 line441 col e:  "You've met Beckett?  Yes, he did pay me the courtesy of announcing his presence in my city.  He's lionized in Kindred society...by most.  Beckett's the definition of 'renouned scholar', but he's also a lone wolf, and owes allegiance only to his intellectual pursuits."
 
 line451 col e:  "Jack!  Hmmm...the man is a scourge, the physical manifestation of chaos.  Whenever he makes an appearance in one's city, it's only a matter of time before a calamity is attributed to his latest lark."
 
 Those are the only references I could find in regards to Beckett's arrival, and indeed the ONLY thing LaCroix ever says about Jack.
 
 It's possible that some of us are remembering someone else saying something about Jack recently arriving in town, but I really don't want to search all the dialogue files for every character.  If someone can come up with a specific character, I'm happy to search those dialogue files.
 
                       

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Skyra_to_Hollow on February 15, 2007, 06:56:00 PM
                As far as the official storyline goes, I have to agree with Slayden on all counts.  In fact, I was contemplating a new trivia episode about "which Bloodlines character was killed in his own flower garden, and by whom?"  However, it's now obvious that at least one person knows the answer right off the bat.  IMO, Jack was portrayed far better than Beckett.  Beckett was nowhere near as fucking poetic as he appears in Bloodlines.  He's a Gangrel archeologist, FFS, not a debate team MVP.  Prince LaCroix served a decent purpose in the storyline, but I think Tanya might have been a better pick, and she dies in the official Gehenna story anyways.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 15, 2007, 07:00:00 PM
                I don't know anything about the official storyline, as Bloodlines is pretty much the only experience I have with Vampire the Masquerade.  So any information I post is strictly in reference to the game.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Slaydin on February 15, 2007, 10:50:00 PM
                In Reply To #32
 
 You can go ahead and post that trivia question if you want. I never go to the trivia threads. I'm so wrapped up in three different stories that I barely have time to sneak out and visit other boards, let alone individual threads.                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] Dante_Malice on February 15, 2007, 11:28:00 PM
                In Reply To #32
 
Skyra to Hollow posted:

 However, it's now obvious that at least one person knows the answer right off the bat.

 
 At least two.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] s4nct1m0ny on February 16, 2007, 04:52:00 AM
                Ah, thanks for clearing up facts for me.
 
 IRT current discussion
 It is damn near impossible - IMPOSSIBLE - to integrate PnP settings perfectly into a 3D game, let alone a 3D game where combat is MANUAL FFS!
 
 I'm not at all into PnP, but I know vaguely enough about it to know that it is not possible to make a perfect PnP adaptation. And because of that, I don't want Bloodlines as a PnP adaptation.
 
 Which is WHY developers should create their OWN ruleset for their RPG. Besides, quite often, when devs are trying to make a PnP adaptation, alot of awkwardness ends up like useless abilities. For example, in NWN and NWN2, Parry is completely useless.
 
 I recall Arathlion saying that Celerity only gives multiple attacks per round in PnP. That's sort of like the ability known as Master Speed in the KotOR games. KotOR has the automatic turn-based dice-using combat, so it's closer to the Star Wars d20 rules.
 
 If Bloodlines was intended as a PnP adaptation, this is how the devs would have had to make the game:
 - make the game isometric
 - make the combat automatic
 - the combat must be in the form of rounds where dice are rolled for 'to hits' and 'damage'
 
 That would have been so different from the FPS style nature of the game. If they wanted to make it as a first-person game, then why did they also try to adapt PnP rules? It creates a helluva mess of a combat system.
 
 [added Feb 15 2007 11:52PM]
 
 PnPers can vouch for this argument, right?                        

 

                                                  
Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] arathalion_5 on February 16, 2007, 05:14:00 AM
                katran: no, we are just incorrect. i specifically remember lacriox saying these things. and it might have been me that originally gave you the idea, so more the the point, i was wrong.
 
 skyra: yeah, go ahead... i wouldn't actually know emediantly, though it does ring a bell... i think i might go check in a minute.
 
 s4nct1m0ny: no, i said multipul turns per turn, not attacks.
 celerity is nothing like flurry of blows. basically, you get really fast, what happens in the rules is that you get 2 separate turns. one in your initiative order, then another at the end... per dot. so five dots = five extra turns.
 
 you could discuss its use with your storyteller and see if you could allow some things that are not covered in the rules. oh, and some addvanced disciplines might produce the effect you where after, however you need to be 7th gen or lower.                        

 

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Title: Re: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] shoshino on February 16, 2007, 10:30:00 AM
                Jack would have definitely mentioned it at one point or another.
 
 why? maybe Jack did know your sire. he knew enough to get to the sarcophagus first, he obviously knew that lacroix knew it was coming to LA and so he laid a trap to kill him... but why? did lacroix hit a chord with jack when he killed your sire?  why is jack unwaveringly looking out for the PC all the time? does he feel responsible for his dead friends childe?
 
 it is also worth noteing that beckett has come to town because his contacts have reported something in the air - does that have anything to do with you?                        

 

                                                  
Title: Andrei's final speech
Post by: [archive] AriannaLewellyn on February 16, 2007, 02:45:00 PM
                In Reply To #37
 
arathalion posted:

 katran: no, we are just incorrect. i specifically remember lacriox saying these things. and it might have been me that originally gave you the idea, so more the the point, i was wrong.</quote>
 
 
 That's alright.  I've played 3 times and I still remember things wrong at times.  In fact, as I listened to all of LaCroix's dialogue files, I found some that I don't recall ever hearing in the game.  I don't know if I just haven't picked the right combination of responses, or if those dialogue pieces were dropped from the actual game but left in the files.
 
 
 In Reply To #38
 <quote by="shoshino">...obviously knew that lacroix knew it was coming to LA and so he laid a trap to kill him...

 
 
 I think it's just as likely that he assumed that LaCroix would get a hold of it, since he is the prince of L.A.  I think it's also just as likely that Jack thought the Kuei-Jin would get to it first, and the explosives were his plot to destroy them.  LaCroix's death might have been just a nice alteration to his plan.
 
 But, again, I'm coming from the position of someone who knows nothing about Jack's background other than what's in Bloodlines.  But I would think that if Jack and your sire were buddy-buddy, he would have mentioned that at some point.