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Author Topic: Andrei's final speech  (Read 7490 times)

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Offline [archive] s4nct1m0ny

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Re: Andrei's final speech
« on: February 13, 2007, 12:10:00 PM »
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  •                 In the last dialogue with Andrei, I remember him saying something like, "I could smell the essence of your blood, even over the flood of my fallen brethren, very potent? Doesn't that make you wonder?"
     
     Subtlety evades me, but all I can understand is the following:
     1) Andrei has a mystical connection with other members of the Sabbat, which is why he feels their death.
     2) Your vampire has very "potent" blood.
     3) It was so potent that it overrode the feeling he had when the members of the Sabbat were dying.
     4) He also says, "The strength of your blood is all that saved you from yourself." Which is pretty much him saying that my lack of "beastly"-ness weakened me and that the only reason I survived through the hotel was because of the strength of the player character's blood.
     
     So I am guessing that your character is supposed to be special. He has powerful blood. But what I don't understand is why or how he is so powerful? Acquired? Inherited? How so, either way? Is there a reason for the potence of the character's blood? Is there any relevance of this to the story?
     
     Is there an answer to this without speculating deeply and considering only what we know from the surface?
     
     PS: Please don't give the usual nonsense of "Use the Search function". Nobody is forcing you to reply.                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] ElGostro

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #1 on: February 13, 2007, 01:47:00 PM »
                    A function of search ye must use!
     
     hehehes,a joke of utmost poorness,but bout the feelin deaths of other clan members that be cuz sabbat bloodbod each others all rounds as practice most common n requires ta be in the house o frat!                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] AriannaLewellyn

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #2 on: February 13, 2007, 03:48:00 PM »
                    Someone mentioned in another thread (can't remember which one) that your PC seems unusually strong for a fledgling, and they were always hoping that it would be explained.  I feel the same way.  Someone also wondered if there was more to LaCroix's execution of your sire than a simple matter of illegal progeny, that perhaps your sire was more powerful than implied and he/she and LaCroix were in some type of power struggle.  I always wondered about LaCroix's line in the end game when you fight against him:  "Like sire like childe.  I should have killed you when I had the chance."  A strange thing for him to say considering in the opening cinematic he referred to your sire as a "loyal and upstanding member of our organization."  That, among a few other things mentioned in the game, make me wonder if there's not a backstory that was dropped.                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] Slaydin

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #3 on: February 13, 2007, 04:29:00 PM »
                    In Reply To #3
     
     That was your's truly. It was a big long dispute and we never reached a conclusion.
     
     http://www.forumplanet.com/planetvampire/topic.asp?fid=9655&tid=1874300
     
     [added Feb 13 2007 11:32AM]
     
     Heh. That was also before I became such a World of Darkness buff.                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] AriannaLewellyn

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #4 on: February 13, 2007, 04:38:00 PM »
                    Yup, that was the thread.  I always felt from my first gameplay that your character was something more, and was rather disappointed that it was never explained.                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] Starrathiel

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #5 on: February 13, 2007, 05:35:00 PM »
                    Hmm ..
     
     
    s4nct1m0ny posted:

     "I could smell the essence of your blood, even over the
     flood of my fallen brethren, very potent? Doesn't that
     make you wonder?"

     
     *Smirk* Truthfully it made my character wonder. It made
     her wonder about the sudden irresistable impulse to put
     her flamethrower away in the Acme (tm) Bag of Holding. It
     also made her wonder about the fuel level remaining in the
     weapon, her ability to quick-draw it, or for that matter
     if enough of him would remain to create a nice purse or
     pair of boots.
     
     Oh well .. As for Andrei, the moronic lizard always had a
     flair for the overly dramatic.
     
     

    1) Andrei has a mystical connection with other
     members of the Sabbat, which is why he feels their death.
     

     
     Or he simply comes to the awfully painfully obvious
     conclusion that since the character has arrived his
     brainless minions were unable to succesfully stand in
     her way. Add to that the "FOOMPF" of the Flamethrower
     and the rattling and bangs of the various noisemakers
     your character carries as well as a death cry or two
     could lead him to conclude that it is unlikely the bulk
     of his minions survived.
     
     Add to this that your character already opened a rather
     sizeable can of "whup-hiny" on him before and the
     conclusion about the characters ability is easily made.
     After all .. come now .. by this time your characters
     reputation for rampaging through the opposition like an
     elephant on a speed overdose already precedes her.
     
     

    2) Your vampire has very "potent" blood.

     
     After all, he could not by any chance admit that it might
     have been the advanced combat skills of your character
     alone that defeated him and his minions. That would be
     so .. not done .. to admit that he is simply incompetent
     compared to your character.
     
     Pfui! Who was the moronic lizard trying to convince?
     Himself or the character?
     
     

    3) It was so potent that it overrode the feeling
     he had when the members of the Sabbat were dying.

     
     That is called "fear" and has nothing to do with the
     potency of the characters blood. While the idea may
     certainly stroke the ego of your character you should
     take his claims with a grain of salt. He is just confused.
     
     

    4) He also says, "The strength of your blood is
     all that saved you from yourself."

     
     Nothing more than a self fulfilling piece of bluster to
     mask his own fright in his final moments. It could just
     as easily be a referral to the characters willpower. Just
     because some characters have a flair for expressing
     themselves in an overly dramatic way does by no means
     indicate that your character should be remotely impressed
     by it, or for that matter put any stock in those claims.
     
     *End of Line*
                           

     

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    Offline [archive] AriannaLewellyn

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 06:43:00 PM »
                    But Andrei isn't the only one who notices that you seem unusually powerful for such a young fledgeling.  Strauss mentions it as well in his letter in your first haven.
     
     And assuming that it's only your superior skill and firepower that enable you to be so powerful, where the heck did you get those skills?  Nothing in the game indicates that you possessed sharpshooting skills before your embrace.  And while vampires have heightened dexterity, strength, etc., that still does not explain how you are powerful enough at so young an age to stomp the snot out of elders hundreds of years older than you, or hordes of VERY well-trained mortals and vampires.  Not to mention taking out a werewolf, which is rare for experienced vampires as it is (even Nines, who is older than you, came out slightly worse for wear than the PC does).
     
     There are just many other clues besides Andrei's little monologue that indicate that the PC is something beyond the normal newbie.                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] arathalion_5

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 08:50:00 PM »
                    In Reply To #1
     andrei gets a kick out of saying these things... though he might have a good sense of smell.
     
     the more i think about it, the more i like the whole withering argument. that would also explain why lacriox couldnt dominate you at the end.
     
     oh, and just cause the search function is crappy doesn't excuse from searching for existing threads.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] s4nct1m0ny

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #8 on: February 14, 2007, 04:26:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #6
     So what you're saying is...Andrei's full of shit.
     
     I suppose it's viable that Andrei just says things to taunt you and make himself feel better. But then again, even though you killed all his minions, I doubt Andrei has reason to fear you. He doesn't know you have a fully loaded flamethrower under your pack, and if you do not use it, Andrei's a pretty tough guy. Tough enough to say that he has no reason to fear you or anyone.                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] Slaydin

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #9 on: February 14, 2007, 06:21:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #7
     
     From a PnP perspective, the PC would likely have to face numerous challenges every single day without rest for at least several months to build up his skills. Technically, it IS possible to take down Elders in such a short time, but the PC would have absolutely no rest for quite a while, and we don't know what the time scale is in Bloodlines. In any case, you would not be able to kill the Sheriff. The Sheriff was 6th generation and the PC is 10th. There's just no contest. And Ming Xiao? Pfft. She is Daimo who has mastered the Demon Shintai, Flesh Shintai, and Jade Shintai. Considering her status and power, she is roughly the equivalent to a Kindred Methuselah. Everything was shewed so that the PC could win.
     
     In Reply To #6
     
    Needle posted:

     

    1) Andrei has a mystical connection with other
     members of the Sabbat, which is why he feels their death.
     

     
     Or he simply comes to the awfully painfully obvious
     conclusion that since the character has arrived his
     brainless minions were unable to succesfully stand in
     her way. Add to that the "FOOMPF" of the Flamethrower
     and the rattling and bangs of the various noisemakers
     your character carries as well as a death cry or two
     could lead him to conclude that it is unlikely the bulk
     of his minions survived.</quote>
     
     The PC was placed at the top of the building, but Andrei was in the basement and vampires' senses are only marginally enhanced. No, Andrei was referring to the Vinculum, the process of drinking other Sabbat members' blood so that they are mystically bound.
     
     
    Needle posted:

     After all, he could not by any chance admit that it might
     have been the advanced combat skills of your character
     alone that defeated him and his minions. That would be
     so .. not done .. to admit that he is simply incompetent
     compared to your character.</quote>
     
     I think you are right on this one.
     
     <quote by="s4nct1m0ny">
     3) It was so potent that it overrode the feeling he had when the members of the Sabbat were dying.

     
     This is erroneous. He said that the smell of your potent blood was so strong it overrode the shed blood of his fellow Sabbat. Therefore, any statements addressing this is also erroneous.
     
     <quote by="s4nct1m0ny">
     4) He also says, "The strength of your blood is all that saved you from yourself." Which is pretty much him saying that my lack of "beastly"-ness weakened me and that the only reason I survived through the hotel was because of the strength of the player character's blood.

     
     No what he was saying was "You've been such a stupid lunkhead that it was only the strength of your blood that kept you from getting ass fried sooner."                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] arathalion_5

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 09:07:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #10
     

    The PC was placed at the top of the building, but Andrei was in the basement and vampires' senses are only marginally enhanced. No, Andrei was referring to the Vinculum, the process of drinking other Sabbat members' blood so that they are mystically bound.
     

     actually, im not sure that the viniculum has that kind of effect.though i could be wrong about that. im going to have to re read that.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Skyra_to_Hollow

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 10:10:00 AM »
                    My explanation is kind of a buzzkill...
     While writing the dialogue for Bloodlines, Brian Mitsoda faced the same paradox that every WoD storyteller faces: he had to convey a sense of achievement, because players get irritated by NPCs constantly referring to them as noobs.  At the same time, the writer has to reconcile the fact that uber-vampires don't get that way without centuries of experience.  The same thing happened in Redemption.  It seems pretty obvious that in the traditional WoD setting, no fledgling could rise up to Prince-Slayer status in the short time that the story takes place.  I think the entire storyline takes place in about a month.  The games have quite a few contradictions regarding this concept:
     - Christof was in torpor for about 99% of his unlife, yet he managed to whoop up on Orsi (and countless others), who presumably had tons and tons more experience than him.
     - The Bloodlines PC learns how to suck a rat one day, and the next day he's slaughtering hordes of Sabbat ghouls in the Santa Monica warehouse.  wtf?
     - After just a few weeks of unlife, you clear out a bazillion Tzimisce critters: something that an entire coterie of Nosferatu wouldn't even attempt (more than a coterie if Mitnick is telling the truth when he says that they're around, but you just don't see them).
     - I suspect that if your sire was somebody remotely famous or infamous, Jack would have definitely mentioned it at one point or another.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] AriannaLewellyn

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #12 on: February 14, 2007, 11:19:00 AM »
                    In Reply To #12
     
    Skyra to Hollow posted:

     - I suspect that if your sire was somebody remotely famous or infamous, Jack would have definitely mentioned it at one point or another.

     
     No one said he was famous or infamous, just that he might have been more powerful than the opening cinematic would lead us to believe.  And LaCroix mentions that Jack arrived in town shortly before the PC did, so it's entirely possible that Jack didn't know much about the PC's sire.  Jack is a smart guy who keeps his ear to the ground, but even he doesn't know everything.  
     
     I always thought it was funny that LaCroix's hitmen show up right after your embrace, as if your sire were being watched.  Why would that be, if he's the "upstanding" member of the Camarilla that LaCroix claims him to be?  And if he isn't so upstanding, why would LaCroix lie about that?
     
     While I think it's most likely that your PC buffs up so quickly strictly for game enjoyment, there are still enough references in the game to your unusual resourcefulness, strength and skill when compared to your fellow, much older Kindred that it gave the impression that there was more to the PC's background than we were given.                        

     

                                                      

    Offline [archive] Skyra_to_Hollow

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #13 on: February 14, 2007, 03:40:00 PM »
                    In Reply To #13
     Are you sure that wasn't Beckett that "just arrived in town?"  I remember the Prince saying that the Gangrel had just arrived, and that he had the courtesy to announce his presence.  I don't remember him saying that Jack was new, but I haven't played in a while so I'm probably missing something.                        

     

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    Offline [archive] Slaydin

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    Re: Andrei's final speech
    « Reply #14 on: February 14, 2007, 06:04:00 PM »
                    In Reply To #11
     Any time a Kindred dies, all blood bonds to that vampire immediately break. Andrei merely felt a "lack" of mystical connections each time one of his own died.
     
     In Reply To #13
     LaCroix said that whatever city Jack ends up at, the city has some catastrophe that is attributed to him, which is true. But. Smiling Jack spends several years in each city before royally fucking the Cam over in that city. Jack's last stop was L.A. (L.A. By Night) and he has never left since. He even dies in L.A. during Gehenna. He was there several years before the PC came along. Your sire could be the one that was new to L.A. (and throwing a new twist to the story) as an Archon maybe? *notices the wide eyes from the PnP players who know what an Archon is* It would definitely explain everything: the low generation, the pain in LaCroix's ass, LaCroix having to say that bit about "upstanding member" and all that, etc.