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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines => Bloodlines Games General Discussion => Topic started by: Talyn82 on December 12, 2019, 03:18:38 AM

Title: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 12, 2019, 03:18:38 AM
Hi, I am new here and I just completed Bloodlines for the first time last night, with the latest version of the unofficial patch basic version, and just wanted to share my thoughts.  First I want to say I never played the "World of Darkness" pen and paper rpg, so don't know how faithful bloodlines was/is.

In my first playthrough I decided to play as a Tremere because I like mages in rpg's.  The attributes I focused on were strength, dexterity, stamina and perception.  The skills I focused on early on were unarmed, dodge, ranged, security and sneak.  Disciplines Thaumaturgy, and Auspex.  Early on I focused on soaking damage, unarmed and Thaumaturgy.  As the story progressed I would invest in ranged, perception and auspex.  While periodically investing in security and sneak. 

My first playthrough was pretty easy going until I fought Ming Xiao and then the Sheriff.  My favorite characters are Jeanette and Therese, Jack, Nines, Damsel, LaCroix, Tung, Romero, Gary, Mitnick, pretty much all of the major npc's.  Though Jeanette and Therese's story was crazy.  Oh and I liked the two old Asian hitmen.  They were funny.  There were a few places I found somewhat scary like the Ocean House Hotel and the Warrens.

I got the Strauss ending where they put the sarcophagus in a secured location.  I was disappointed my character did not become Prince, but that did not take away from the experience.  I of course sided with the Camarilla and was always loyal and friendly towards LaCroix, though I would occasionally run to the Last Round and talk to Jack about what the Prince has me currently doing. 

I got both the Santa Monica haven which is mandatory and the much more upscale Tremere haven.  I enjoyed having Heather as my ghoul though I did not like her fate.  Next time I play I'll see if I can dismiss her early on.  For melee I used my fists (claws) and for ranged the two best weapons I used were the Colt Anaconda and Combat Shotgun.  I hardly used any of my bloodpacks early on until towards the end with Ming Xiao and the Sheriff.

I have a question?  Who was sending the unnamed emails?  Was it the cab driver?  Also I like Jack but was he playing me the whole time?  I mean the cabbie was a friend of his, and that cabbie took me all over L.A.  He knew where I went.  So was Jack keeping track of me for the Anarchs.  Oh yeah, just cause I sided with the Camarilla I preferred the Anarchs.  I just sided with the Camarilla cause I figured that's what a Tremere would do judging by what Strauss says.

In conclusion I enjoyed the game very much and don't know why I've put off playing it for so long.  Even though I was old enough to understand the game when it was released.

The only modern gaming conveniences I would have liked were more hotkeys, and an ability to lock on to the target when in melee.  Cause the melee fights were hectic especially against foes like the second plaguebearer who lived in the sewers.  He kept on getting behind my character.

P.S.  In a couple of days I plan on replaying the games either a Toreador or Ventrue.  Because as much fun as I had with Tremere.  My character was did not have high persuasion, and I usually like to persuade/intimidate out of potentially combat situations.   Most likely I'll go Toreador cause the Ventrue are picky on who they feed.  I eventually want to do a Malkavian playthrough cause I heard they are wild, but one must be really familiar with the story in order to appreciate it. 

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 12, 2019, 06:20:57 AM
Welcome kindred, glad you loved the game.

Enjoy playing a Toreador. It's my own personal favorite and it's one of the two clans with what I personally think it's the single best discipline: Celerity. Get ready to feel like Keanu Reeves and tear shit up in Los Angeles.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 12, 2019, 08:07:36 AM
I was disappointed my character did not become Prince, but that did not take away from the experience.

I really liked that. The player is not the boss of everything in the end, contrary to games like Skyrim for example.

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I enjoyed having Heather as my ghoul though I did not like her fate.  Next time I play I'll see if I can dismiss her early on.

You should choose the plus patch then, because I added a way to change her fate without sending her away :)!

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Who was sending the unnamed emails?  Was it the cab driver?

Nobody really knows and this is probably intended. The Cabbie could be it, but I don't see him using a laptop...

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Also I like Jack but was he playing me the whole time?

Pretty much yes. You should side with the Anarchs the next time! You'll get some more background story then.

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Most likely I'll go Toreador cause the Ventrue are picky on who they feed.  I eventually want to do a Malkavian playthrough cause I heard they are wild, but one must be really familiar with the story in order to appreciate it.

As highwayman wrote, Toreador are great gunman persuader types and you are right, Malkavian is best for last.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 12, 2019, 08:52:40 AM
Welcome kindred, glad you loved the game.

Enjoy playing a Toreador. It's my own personal favorite and it's one of the two clans with what I personally think it's the single best discipline: Celerity. Get ready to feel like Keanu Reeves and tear shit up in Los Angeles.

Yeah for my first playthrough I was deciding between Toreador and Tremere.  I liked my Tremere, but he was not persuasive his intimidation score was 3, and that was enough to intimidate the script writer who works at the Luckee hotel in Hollywood.  But yeah next playthrough definitely Toreador.

I saw their character sheet earlier and all three disciplines sound good.  I'm really going to have to think on where to allocate points.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 12, 2019, 09:08:04 AM
I was disappointed my character did not become Prince, but that did not take away from the experience.

I really liked that. The player is not the boss of everything in the end, contrary to games like Skyrim for example.

Quote
I enjoyed having Heather as my ghoul though I did not like her fate.  Next time I play I'll see if I can dismiss her early on.

You should choose the plus patch then, because I added a way to change her fate without sending her away :)!

Quote
Who was sending the unnamed emails?  Was it the cab driver?

Nobody really knows and this is probably intended. The Cabbie could be it, but I don't see him using a laptop...

Quote
Also I like Jack but was he playing me the whole time?

Pretty much yes. You should side with the Anarchs the next time! You'll get some more background story then.

Quote
Most likely I'll go Toreador cause the Ventrue are picky on who they feed.  I eventually want to do a Malkavian playthrough cause I heard they are wild, but one must be really familiar with the story in order to appreciate it.

As highwayman wrote, Toreador are great gunman persuader types and you are right, Malkavian is best for last.

Yeah now that you mention it becoming head of the Camarilla sounds like an Elder Scrolls type of thing.  But I wonder who became the new Prince?  Plus my Tremere is low in the vampire hierarchy.

I will try the Plus Patch after I play as a Toreador.  I will replay both Toreador and Tremere with the Plus Patch.  I like that you changed the outcome.  I felt bad for her.

Well the cabbie is mysterious and I find him intriguing.  But then again it could have been Strauss sending the emails.

Oh I like the Anarchs and definitely going to side with them.  I like Nines, Damsel, and Jack.  I was going to side with them initially but I thought a Tremere would be loyal to the Camarilla.  But last night I read up on the Tremere and their are different factions of them, and most are not aligned with the Camarilla. 

I'm definitely going to give the Toreador a try.  They were one of the two clans besides the Malkavians and Nosferatu I found interesting.  The other was Tremere. 

Also I recognize your name, you are the creator of the unofficial patch.  Thank you for all your years of hard work on making the game playable.  I have heard that the development studio was shut down before they could properly fix the many bugs.



Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 12, 2019, 11:00:04 AM
But I wonder who became the new Prince?

This was mentioned in an old WoD book that isn't canon anymore, but from the game I would guess it would be Strauss.

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I will try the Plus Patch after I play as a Toreador.  I will replay both Toreador and Tremere with the Plus Patch.

I think you should play the Toreador with plus already, the differences are not big enough for two same clan playthroughs.

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I like that you changed the outcome.  I felt bad for her.

I didn't just change the outcome. I only added another option which you need to recognize and take ;)!

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Oh I like the Anarchs and definitely going to side with them.

Then you will see a completely new map if you play the plus version!

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I have heard that the development studio was shut down before they could properly fix the many bugs.

Indeed, and they couldn't really finish the game either. The plus patch restores much unfinished content!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 12, 2019, 12:39:56 PM
You should choose the plus patch then, because I added a way to change her fate without sending her away :)!

I am totally unaware of this... please explain :O !
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 12, 2019, 01:15:22 PM
You should choose the plus patch then, because I added a way to change her fate without sending her away :)!

I am totally unaware of this... please explain :O !

This might be a bit of a spoiler, but at one time Heather will tell you that she thinks she is being followed. If you tell her to stay indoors after that, her fate will change...
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 12, 2019, 07:58:20 PM
But I wonder who became the new Prince?

This was mentioned in an old WoD book that isn't canon anymore, but from the game I would guess it would be Strauss.

Quote
I will try the Plus Patch after I play as a Toreador.  I will replay both Toreador and Tremere with the Plus Patch.

I think you should play the Toreador with plus already, the differences are not big enough for two same clan playthroughs.

Quote
I like that you changed the outcome.  I felt bad for her.

I didn't just change the outcome. I only added another option which you need to recognize and take ;)!

Quote
Oh I like the Anarchs and definitely going to side with them.

Then you will see a completely new map if you play the plus version!

Quote
I have heard that the development studio was shut down before they could properly fix the many bugs.

Indeed, and they couldn't really finish the game either. The plus patch restores much unfinished content!

I figured Strauss would be the new Prince. 

Oh okay I will install the Plus patch then.

Oh I misunderstood what you posted earlier.

Yeah I strongly dislike when publishers get in the way of development.  Reminds me of another favorite rpg of mine "Knights of the Old Republic II", the publisher forced the development team to rush the game.  Thus releasing a buggy and unfinished game.  It was up to the modders/fans to restore the cut content.



Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 12, 2019, 09:34:51 PM
Reminds me of another favorite rpg of mine "Knights of the Old Republic II", the publisher forced the development team to rush the game.  Thus releasing a buggy and unfinished game.  It was up to the modders/fans to restore the cut content.

I know about the KOTOT2 restored content mod, although I never played it. While the plus patch does not restore a whole planet, it restores 8 maps and lots of other unused content, so it's kind of a restoration project for Bloodlines :)!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on December 13, 2019, 03:15:09 AM
All of the clans are unique in their own way.  Try them all!  The Nossie's are my personal favorite but play is much different from the others so that one should be one of the last. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 13, 2019, 04:36:38 AM
Reminds me of another favorite rpg of mine "Knights of the Old Republic II", the publisher forced the development team to rush the game.  Thus releasing a buggy and unfinished game.  It was up to the modders/fans to restore the cut content.

I know about the KOTOT2 restored content mod, although I never played it. While the plus patch does not restore a whole planet, it restores 8 maps and lots of other unused content, so it's kind of a restoration project for Bloodlines :)!

Yes, I just reinstalled the unofficial patch this with the Patch Plus checked.  The more of Bloodlines the better.:)  I will start my Toreador playthrough tomorrow, and ask here if I run into any problem with where to put points in.  Because I saw their three disciplines and they all sound good.  With my Tremere I focused only on Thaumaturgy and Auspex, and only had one point in Domination.  So I will see where to put points.

I just realized both VTMB and KOTOR 2 were released the same year by developers that also worked on the original Baldur's Gate and Fallout games.  While sadly VTMB was Troika's last game, KOTOR 2 was Obsidian's first game.  Anyway I just thought it was interesting.  But that explains why I didn't play VTMB then.  At the time I was still heavily into Morrowind and the KOTOR games.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 13, 2019, 04:51:11 AM
All of the clans are unique in their own way.  Try them all!  The Nossie's are my personal favorite but play is much different from the others so that one should be one of the last.

I forgot to say one of my favorite clans I met in game were the Nosferatu.  At first just by looking at them I thought they were truly the damned and the fallen.  I was nervous when wandering in the sewers.  But then when it is revealed that the Tzimisce's creatures have run out the Nosferatu I knew there had to be something more to them.

So when I finally met the first one, Mitnick.  I was surprised.  I thought he would be some raging demon, but no he was just a computer geek, who thinks being a Nosferatu is not a bad deal.  Imalia she was hateful especially towards the model that replaced her.  Gary was mysterious, and Tung was alright.  The only problem I had with them was that they were so few.  I know Mitnick said there were other Nosferatu in the lair but we never see them.

But yeah, I am going to try them all.  Next Toreador then maybe Ventrue or Nosferatu.  Malkavian for last.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 13, 2019, 11:17:23 PM
Here is my first attempt at a Toreador, since I don't know how to attach screenshots.  I can't attach a screenshot of the character sheet.  But here are the main skills, and discipline.

Combat:  Melee 2, Defense 3.   Covert:  Hacking 2, Research 3.  Mental:  Persuasion 4, Seduction 4.  Discipline:  2 ranks in Celerity.

I went for high persuasion and seduction early on so I can sweet talk my way out of potential combat situations, and so I can feed on the ladies at the Asylum and not on prostitutes and bums.

I'm going to do the tutorial for Jack now.  I will post back in awhile.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 14, 2019, 12:36:57 AM
Presence is susprisingly useful and fitting for a Toreador doing melee.

I will also ask Wesp5 now (since it might be useful): are special presence dialogue options unlocked by investing points in the discipline in the UP patch ?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 14, 2019, 01:52:33 AM
Presence is susprisingly useful and fitting for a Toreador doing melee.

I will also ask Wesp5 now (since it might be useful): are special presence dialogue options unlocked by investing points in the discipline in the UP patch ?

Yes, I finished the tutorial part and spoke to Mercurio.  But during the tutorial I enjoyed all three disciplines.  With the my Tremere character it was the same way, but I only had one point in domination, and focused on Thaumaturgy, and Auspex.  Presence is a great power like the other two.  I really have to plan out this build.

I also must ask Wesp5, if he made any tweaks to any of the skills and attributes like stamina, sneak or melee?  Also were there any tweaks made to enemy ai?  Because eventually I have to go get the Astrolite for Mercurio from the thugs, and as a Tremere it was easy but I was using the basic version of the unofficial patch.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 14, 2019, 05:48:11 AM
I also must ask Wesp5, if he made any tweaks to any of the skills and attributes like stamina, sneak or melee?  Also were there any tweaks made to enemy ai?  Because eventually I have to go get the Astrolite for Mercurio from the thugs, and as a Tremere it was easy but I was using the basic version of the unofficial patch.

Don't worry about that astrolite. You'll destroy all Santa Monica persuasion checks if you're starting out on 4.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 14, 2019, 06:08:54 AM
Okay cool.  But with the Astrolite quest i messed up a bit.  When I got to the beach house portion.  Right before I approached the thug outside, I pulled out my tire iron.  When the thug saw me he immediately attacked me.  So I proceeded to kill everyone. lol

Next time if I play Ventrue I'll try to approach without being armed.  Before that I did the quest for the bail bondsman where I had to find his bounty hunter.  I went to Gimble and he almost killed me I had to keep using presence and celerity.  I am focusing on melee but I find using weapons to be more erratic than unarmed.  With a Tremere I just used either Blood Purge or Domination and my fists to kill him.

I tried to kill the Asian vampire but he whooped my ass.  So I'll comeback to that when I get better armor.  I am currently trying to get the werewolf blood for Lacroix, but I am having trouble sneaking around, the guard keeps seeing me because my sneak level is only 3.  I did a quick recon run to search for the computer and CIS rooms like I usually do before I reload and attempt to sneak.  With a Tremere I just put him under a trance and would run by him. 

Can I postpone the quest until I level up sneaking?  Or is it mandatory to do it before I go downtown?  I know I can do the Asian vampire quest before Chinatown.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 14, 2019, 08:44:46 AM
Welcome Talyn. Are you the Talyn82 from the Bioware forums? And cool name, I'm still sad, that Talyn and Crais died (Farscape is such a great show).

Bloodlines is probably my most loved and most often played game and thanks to wesps patch, it is fairly smoothly playable now. My favorite clans are Malkavians (the best), Nosferatu and Gangrels.
There are some discussions about the cabbies identity, but I don't want to spoil it, you might get some ideas with another playthrough. Especially in a Malkavian playthrough, you might get some more insight.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 14, 2019, 09:10:01 AM
I will also ask Wesp5 now (since it might be useful): are special presence dialogue options unlocked by investing points in the discipline in the UP patch ?

Yes, I restored Presence in dialogues in the plus patch, but it's similar to Dominate or Intimidate in most cases as there had to be fitting reactions ;)!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 14, 2019, 09:16:02 AM
I also must ask Wesp5, if he made any tweaks to any of the skills and attributes like stamina, sneak or melee?  Also were there any tweaks made to enemy ai?

I didn't tweak any stats or the enemy ai, but I repaired the broken stealth system, so sneaking will be harder in the plus patch. In the original game you were already invisible with Stealth 6 which makes no sense! Now this happens with Stealth 10 (which is still overpowered ;).
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 14, 2019, 09:07:43 PM
Welcome Talyn. Are you the Talyn82 from the Bioware forums? And cool name, I'm still sad, that Talyn and Crais died (Farscape is such a great show).

Bloodlines is probably my most loved and most often played game and thanks to wesps patch, it is fairly smoothly playable now. My favorite clans are Malkavians (the best), Nosferatu and Gangrels.
There are some discussions about the cabbies identity, but I don't want to spoil it, you might get some ideas with another playthrough. Especially in a Malkavian playthrough, you might get some more insight.

Yep, I am indeed that Talyn82 from the BioWare forums and Bethesda forums as well, and yeah I got the name from Farscape, which was one of my favorite scifi shows on tv.

As for the game I haven't played as those clans but I do find them interesting.  I want to try all the clans.  As for the cabbie I saw there was a thread on here about Caine but I did not click on it as not to be spoiled.

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 14, 2019, 09:15:31 PM
I also must ask Wesp5, if he made any tweaks to any of the skills and attributes like stamina, sneak or melee?  Also were there any tweaks made to enemy ai?

I didn't tweak any stats or the enemy ai, but I repaired the broken stealth system, so sneaking will be harder in the plus patch. In the original game you were already invisible with Stealth 6 which makes no sense! Now this happens with Stealth 10 (which is still overpowered ;).

I agree Sneak was overpowered.  In my last playthrough I got it up to 8 with the basic unofficial patch, and the game was easy sneaking by enemies. 

I've been playing with the Plus patch and already early in the game have seen some of the restored content.  For example earlier I said I was having trouble sneaking passed the guard that patrols the hospital upper floor.  Well I reloaded an old save right before I entered the hospital for the first time, and when I spoke to the receptionist I saw a dialogue option I had not seen before.  I clicked on it and she gave me a key and told me what to say to the guard.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 14, 2019, 09:36:31 PM
Well I reloaded an old save right before I entered the hospital for the first time, and when I spoke to the receptionist I saw a dialogue option I had not seen before.

I don't think I restored anything there, but the games has lots of different dialogue options depending on stats, most important are Persuasion, Seduction and Intimidation!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 14, 2019, 10:02:27 PM
Well I reloaded an old save right before I entered the hospital for the first time, and when I spoke to the receptionist I saw a dialogue option I had not seen before.

I don't think I restored anything there, but the games has lots of different dialogue options depending on stats, most important are Persuasion, Seduction and Intimidation!

Oh okay, somehow I must've missed that dialogue option when I first spoke to the receptionist.  But I definitely know as a Tremere with low persuasion that option did not appear.  It's alright more to explore with the patch. 

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 15, 2019, 06:35:18 AM
So I completed Santa Monica.  The only quests not completed are the "Muddy" and Asian vampire.  The game was pretty easy, I only got killed once, and almost got killed by Gimble. 

With the Plus Patch I've noticed some things.  Like the charm that is found in the Ocean Hotel is no longer there.  But I did find a dodge skill book so that was a nice swap. 

I also found a fire axe (possible murder weapon?) on top of the elevator that crashes.  Trip no longer sells skill books, but I did find two in other places I can't remember right now.

When in the warehouse and I went into the middle office there were two thugs, that in the Basic Patch were not there.

All in all I'm enjoying the game.  I like that I can sweet talk the blood dolls, and talk myself out of potential combat situations like at the beachhouse.

Here are my Feats as of now.

Combat:
Unarmed: 2
Melee: 4
Ranged: 2
Defense: 4

Covert:
Lockpicking: 3
Sneaking: 4
Hacking: 3
Inspection: 1
Research: 4

Public:
Haggle: 1
Intmidate: 1
Persuasion: 5
Seduction: 4

Soak:
Bashing: 3
Lethal: 0
Aggravated: 0

Disciplines:
Auspex: 1
Celerity: 2
Presence: 2

I plan to gradually raise Perception and Ranged.

I have two questions.  As a Toreador should I upgrade Auspex?  Or concentrate on Celerity and Presence?  Also up to what level should I keep adding dots to Persuasion and Seduction?




Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 15, 2019, 08:19:20 AM
Like the charm that is found in the Ocean Hotel is no longer there.  But I did find a dodge skill book so that was a nice swap.

This was done because the other way around you can't use the book without dropping the charm which most people overlooked.

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I also found a fire axe (possible murder weapon?) on top of the elevator that crashes.

Yes, this is supposed to be the murder weapon :)!

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Trip no longer sells skill books, but I did find two in other places I can't remember right now.

The books were moved to hide an exploit that I will not explain ;).

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When in the warehouse and I went into the middle office there were two thugs, that in the Basic Patch were not there.

I think I restored only one guy there and his hilarious "boss talk".

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As a Toreador should I upgrade Auspex?  Or concentrate on Celerity and Presence?  Also up to what level should I keep adding dots to Persuasion and Seduction?

Persuasion goes as high as 8 or 9 I think, I don't know about Seduction. Auspex makes more sense for a gunman, otherwise choose Celerity...
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 15, 2019, 06:48:28 PM
No problem I prefer the book over the charm.  In fact I forgot what the charm did.

I can't see to close since there's no way to spin the camera around to show the character from the front.  But I think the fire axe has blood on it.

Aw I missed the boss talk.  My character went in there walking casually and was taken by surprise.  He still killed them though.

Okay I have to figure out when to allocate points to persuasion.  Right now it is at 5.

Oh some smooth talking Toreador moments.  During the retrieve the Astrolite quest.  I was able to talk my way in and out.  This part surprised me.  I was able to save both Therese and Jeanette.  Which I did not know was possible.


Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 15, 2019, 07:18:05 PM
I will also ask Wesp5 now (since it might be useful): are special presence dialogue options unlocked by investing points in the discipline in the UP patch ?

Yes, I restored Presence in dialogues in the plus patch, but it's similar to Dominate or Intimidate in most cases as there had to be fitting reactions ;)!

Thank you as always Wesp5. If I may ask (for a future playthrough), how many points are needed to invest in Presence to obtain all dialogue options ?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 15, 2019, 09:43:18 PM
No problem I prefer the book over the charm.  In fact I forgot what the charm did.

The charm did the same, so only the order of when you get the items was changed!

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I can't see to close since there's no way to spin the camera around to show the character from the front.

You can define keys to move the camera, default are the numpad keys.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 15, 2019, 09:44:29 PM
If I may ask (for a future playthrough), how many points are needed to invest in Presence to obtain all dialogue options ?

That would be 3...
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 15, 2019, 11:02:28 PM
No problem I prefer the book over the charm.  In fact I forgot what the charm did.

The charm did the same, so only the order of when you get the items was changed!

Quote
I can't see to close since there's no way to spin the camera around to show the character from the front.

You can define keys to move the camera, default are the numpad keys.

So I will still get the charm later on in the game?

I did not know I could move the camera with the numpad. Thanks! :)

Edit:  Okay got the charm.  It was in Dr. Grouts asylum.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 16, 2019, 01:34:48 AM
Welcome Talyn. Are you the Talyn82 from the Bioware forums? And cool name, I'm still sad, that Talyn and Crais died (Farscape is such a great show).

Spoilers :'(
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 16, 2019, 03:34:36 PM
Welcome Talyn. Are you the Talyn82 from the Bioware forums? And cool name, I'm still sad, that Talyn and Crais died (Farscape is such a great show).

Spoilers :'(

Sorry, but this is such an old show, I didn't saw it as spoiler anymore
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 16, 2019, 03:42:37 PM
Sorry, but this is such an old show, I didn't saw it as spoiler anymore

Be careful next time. We can't all see every show out there.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 17, 2019, 01:24:03 AM
Sorry, but this is such an old show, I didn't saw it as spoiler anymore

Be careful next time. We can't all see every show out there.

Even with the spoiler I recommend checking out the show.  At the time it was one of the most popular scifi show on tv.  It has a great cast and many memorable characters.  At the time Farscape and Stargate SG-1 were my two scifi shows.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 17, 2019, 01:32:32 AM
So currently my Toreador, Tristan is in Hollywood.  He just got the movie script from the hotel manager for VV, and scared off Julius.  While back in Santa Monica I confronted Muddy and killed him.  My experiences with the Toreador so far.  With a 3 in presence the melee fights are easy.  Since I am in Hollywood and this is were we do the Warrens section.  I've begun putting points into firearms and perception.  I hate the Warrens because of those creepy Maiden's they are so creepy but easy when using stealth and a Colt Anaconda.  Back Downtown I only had trouble with Bishop Vick in the crackhouse.  His shotgun blasts were doing a lot of damage, but I hacked him up with the fire axe from the haunted hotel.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 17, 2019, 06:15:31 AM
Just finished the Warrens and talking to Gary.  I was pleasantly surprised to find a locked door and terminal.  The terminal said 'shortcut.'  I hacked the password and the door unlocked.  I went in and eventually I made my way to the Nosferatu Lair.  Along the way through the shortcut I encountered an overweight creature that fires a green projectile, and a "Maiden" which I easily snuck by.

Anyway thank you to Wesp5 for the shortcut.  I don't mind doing the whole thing.  It's just the fact that you don't gain experience from killing monsters, that makes Warrens pointless imo.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 17, 2019, 12:04:13 PM
So currently my Toreador, Tristan is in Hollywood.  He just got the movie script from the hotel manager for VV, and scared off Julius.  While back in Santa Monica I confronted Muddy and killed him.

You... killed Muddy ? Or you witnessed his murder ?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 17, 2019, 07:12:02 PM
Talyn: I think you killed Muddys killer, the red headed guy with the white shirt?

The Warren's can get tiresome and they are so bugged. I'm really glad for wesps shortcut. I love the Nosferatu though, especially Gary, he is great.

And yes, Farscape was a great show with really great and memorable characters.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 17, 2019, 07:50:32 PM
Talyn: I think you killed Muddys killer, the red headed guy with the white shirt?

Oh yes, this might be what happened.

If it happened, then take note in the future because you can persuade him to step down and abide by the masquerade... if you'd like to choose that path.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on December 18, 2019, 01:22:30 AM
Just finished the Warrens and talking to Gary.  I was pleasantly surprised to find a locked door and terminal.  The terminal said 'shortcut.'  I hacked the password and the door unlocked.  I went in and eventually I made my way to the Nosferatu Lair.  Along the way through the shortcut I encountered an overweight creature that fires a green projectile, and a "Maiden" which I easily snuck by.

Anyway thank you to Wesp5 for the shortcut.  I don't mind doing the whole thing.  It's just the fact that you don't gain experience from killing monsters, that makes Warrens pointless imo.

Any self respecting vampire takes the safest route.  :)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 18, 2019, 01:55:54 AM
It was late last night when I posted I killed Muddy.   Yeah it was the murderer I killed in the junkyard.  As for getting him to abide by the masquerade.  I did not get that option.  My persuasion has been at 6 since Downtown, I am now in the downtown library about to confront the Lasombra.  But up to what level should I keep allocating points into persuasion to get all persuasion topics?  Also up to what level should I raise seduction?  Because I read that during the Giovanni mission I can seduce my way in.  The first time I snuck/killed my way through which was not hard. 

About the Nosferatu.  I like the fact that Gary and Imalia were once attractive and are now ugly.  But Mitnick is my favorite with Gary  and Tung right behind.  Talking about Gary and Tung.  Who is the highest ranking Nosferatu between the two?

About Farscape damn right is a great show. :)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 18, 2019, 02:32:52 AM
It was late last night when I posted I killed Muddy.   Yeah it was the murderer I killed in the junkyard.  As for getting him to abide by the masquerade.  I did not get that option.  My persuasion has been at 6 since Downtown, I am now in the downtown library about to confront the Lasombra.  But up to what level should I keep allocating points into persuasion to get all persuasion topics?  Also up to what level should I raise seduction?  Because I read that during the Giovanni mission I can seduce my way in.  The first time I snuck/killed my way through which was not hard.

With a 9 in persuasion you can pass all checks.

Now about seduction. Although I use it in my playthrough, it is considerably less useful than persuasion. There's almost nothing you can do with seduction that you can't also accomplish with persuasion. So unless you really care about having blood dolls then it might not be the best skill.

About the Nosferatu.  I like the fact that Gary and Imalia were once attractive and are now ugly.  But Mitnick is my favorite with Gary  and Tung right behind.  Talking about Gary and Tung.  Who is the highest ranking Nosferatu between the two?

Gary of course, he is clan Primogen. Top boss of all LA nossies.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 18, 2019, 04:19:12 AM
Okay good so I don't have to raise seduction.  I thought there was more to it than just blood dolls.  I assume as a Ventrue they will need seduction?  Cause even though I have no problem getting cash in the game.  The blue blood packs are expensive, and I need the extra cash for my Colt Anaconda.  So I will raise persuasion.

As for Golden Gary.  Now I remember there's a scene where LaCroix is speaking to other vamps and he says they are vampire Primogen.  Gary was one of them.  But yeah I like Gary, boss.  I am doing his pointless quests to acquire certain items for posters.  I say pointless because you don't get any experience points for doing them.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 18, 2019, 07:42:34 AM
For my Anarch aligned Toreador I focused on Auspex, and Presence.  I originally was gonna invest in Celerity, but then I remembered with Auspex I can see enemies through objects, and that is essential when doing stealth missions.  Especially since unlike my Tremere character, my Toreador can't put incoming enemies under a trance and sneak by.  Next time I play a Camarilla aligned Toreador I'll try Celerity.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 18, 2019, 08:53:10 AM
Now I remember there's a scene where LaCroix is speaking to other vamps and he says they are vampire Primogen.  Gary was one of them.

I added this in the plus patch as well as him being there at the execution of your sire. I couldn't stand all the clones being visible before...
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 18, 2019, 10:29:38 AM
Oh I did not see him, because at the start of this playthrough I was using an enb, and it made the game very dark.  For example:  The only reason I saw Jack was cause his cigar lit up.  But I've removed the enb since then so now I see everything.  But yeah it made no sense.  If Gary is an important member of the Camarilla why wasn't he at the trial?  Once again thanks for your hard work!:)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on December 18, 2019, 10:48:40 AM
I prefer a simple SFX effect (the one called Atmospheric), a couple of tweaks and its perfect
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 18, 2019, 11:14:47 AM
The thing is I'm not great at tweaking those kinds of things.  I mean I understand the visuals and graphic settings in game option menus.  But how to finely tune graphical settings in enb's or SWEETFX's, I do not know how.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on December 18, 2019, 02:49:09 PM
Neither I, I just find out the Devolved Mod (a ENB/SweetFX combo) uses a modified version of my favourite SweetFX setting even making it better LOL
I've included it my own quick-to-install pack if anyone wants :vampwink:
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 18, 2019, 07:57:04 PM
Oh I did not see him, because at the start of this playthrough I was using an enb, and it made the game very dark.  For example:  The only reason I saw Jack was cause his cigar lit up.  But I've removed the enb since then so now I see everything.  But yeah it made no sense.  If Gary is an important member of the Camarilla why wasn't he at the trial?  Once again thanks for your hard work!:)

Gary is really good at Obfuscate, so he might still be there in the vanilla game, but preferred to stay hidden - maybe in the hope, to find out something about one of the other vampires. That would totally be in character for him (and that was my headcanon before wesps plus patch came along).

As for the killer: I think, you need persuasion 7 for the option to convince him to stop killing and let him live, but I'm not sure. I always focus on persuasion as my social skill and have it at around eight by then.

Another character I find fascinating, if evil, is Andrei the Tzimisce. Love his voice and his looks.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 18, 2019, 08:36:23 PM
Gary is really good at Obfuscate, so he might still be there in the vanilla game, but preferred to stay hidden - maybe in the hope, to find out something about one of the other vampires. That would totally be in character for him (and that was my headcanon before wesps plus patch came along).

I don't think this makes sense. Auspex can see Obfuscated vampires and with such an important meeting someone, like the Sheriff or anyone else having Auspex, would have certainly checked the parameter and found Gary. Who should know about that which would make his behaviour rather inpolite :)!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 19, 2019, 01:42:42 AM
Oh I did not see him, because at the start of this playthrough I was using an enb, and it made the game very dark.  For example:  The only reason I saw Jack was cause his cigar lit up.  But I've removed the enb since then so now I see everything.  But yeah it made no sense.  If Gary is an important member of the Camarilla why wasn't he at the trial?  Once again thanks for your hard work!:)

Gary is really good at Obfuscate, so he might still be there in the vanilla game, but preferred to stay hidden - maybe in the hope, to find out something about one of the other vampires. That would totally be in character for him (and that was my headcanon before wesps plus patch came along).

As for the killer: I think, you need persuasion 7 for the option to convince him to stop killing and let him live, but I'm not sure. I always focus on persuasion as my social skill and have it at around eight by then.

Another character I find fascinating, if evil, is Andrei the Tzimisce. Love his voice and his looks.

Yeah I thought he might have been using obfuscate, but like Wesp5 said, characters like the Sheriff would have probably detected him.

As for the serial killer.  At the time my persuasion was at 6, I did try to see if I could convince him otherwise, but my persuasion was too low.  Now it is at level 8 thanks to the reward from Isaac and Wesp5 for restoring it.  I was able to convince the two Chinese hitmen to reconcile their differences and got 6 experience points.  In my first playthrough I could not get them to reconcile, but I did walk away with 80% of their reward money.  But between cash and experience points I choose the latter.

I did not know that Tzimisce had a name.  But I do like him and want to know more about his clan.  I also want to know more of the Sabbat in general.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 19, 2019, 02:45:42 AM
I was able to convince the two Chinese hitmen to reconcile their differences and got 6 experience points.  In my first playthrough I could not get them to reconcile, but I did walk away with 80% of their reward money.

Haaaaa that quest is amazing. Great great fun with that one.

I did not know that Tzimisce had a name.  But I do like him and want to know more about his clan.  I also want to know more of the Sabbat in general.

I'm not the biggest modder around but if you enjoy using mods then there's one out there that actually allows you to join the Sabbat and have a whole questline with the sect. Someone more knowledgeable in that area will know the name of that mod.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on December 19, 2019, 03:44:48 AM
Gary is really good at Obfuscate, so he might still be there in the vanilla game, but preferred to stay hidden - maybe in the hope, to find out something about one of the other vampires. That would totally be in character for him (and that was my headcanon before wesps plus patch came along).

I don't think this makes sense. Auspex can see Obfuscated vampires and with such an important meeting someone, like the Sheriff or anyone else having Auspex, would have certainly checked the parameter and found Gary. Who should know about that which would make his behaviour rather inpolite :)!

In one of the novels I read, in New York City, the nossie primogen was nowhere to be found in a meeting but was there, obscurated in an air vent or something listening in. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 19, 2019, 04:58:38 AM
I was able to convince the two Chinese hitmen to reconcile their differences and got 6 experience points.  In my first playthrough I could not get them to reconcile, but I did walk away with 80% of their reward money.

Haaaaa that quest is amazing. Great great fun with that one.

I did not know that Tzimisce had a name.  But I do like him and want to know more about his clan.  I also want to know more of the Sabbat in general.

I'm not the biggest modder around but if you enjoy using mods then there's one out there that actually allows you to join the Sabbat and have a whole questline with the sect. Someone more knowledgeable in that area will know the name of that mod.

Yeah, I've been enjoying my Toreador playthrough.  In rpg's I like to persuade npc's out of combat.  Right now I am doing Gary's poster quests even though I gain no experience.  I also have to talk to Zhao.  OH!  I fought that demon with Yuki and she died during the fight.  In my first playthrough she never died despite getting massacred.  But in my current playthrough I just reloaded and now she's safe and sound. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 19, 2019, 08:25:28 PM
Quote from: Highwayman66

I did not know that Tzimisce had a name.  But I do like him and want to know more about his clan.  I also want to know more of the Sabbat in general.

I'm not the biggest modder around but if you enjoy using mods then there's one out there that actually allows you to join the Sabbat and have a whole questline with the sect. Someone more knowledgeable in that area will know the name of that mod.

It's the Clan Quest Mod, which I highly recommend. You can join Andrei and have a whole new game experience with new characters and areas. And they even found a really great voice actor for Andrei, who sound a lot like the original one.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 19, 2019, 08:28:53 PM
I did not know that Tzimisce had a name.  But I do like him and want to know more about his clan.  I also want to know more of the Sabbat in general.

We have a Sabbat pen & paper group and it is a lot of fun. I'm playing a Tzimisce there, a very formal and old fashioned gentleman, who is very social, but if you cross him, you end up as wall decoration (he was in torpor for a whole century because of an enemy, so he is not very patient atm).
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 20, 2019, 02:24:01 AM
I did not know that Tzimisce had a name.  But I do like him and want to know more about his clan.  I also want to know more of the Sabbat in general.

We have a Sabbat pen & paper group and it is a lot of fun. I'm playing a Tzimisce there, a very formal and old fashioned gentleman, who is very social, but if you cross him, you end up as wall decoration (he was in torpor for a whole century because of an enemy, so he is not very patient atm).

That sounds like a lot of fun.  I like how your character backstory and demeanor.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 20, 2019, 07:23:13 AM
I'm about to infiltrate the Society of Leopold.  Which should be easy peasy.  I just did the Giovanni and it was fun talking my through.  The zombies gave me a bit of trouble.  The Chang Brothers are always tough, but I know how to kill them easily.  I know I initially said I had no problems in game until Ming Xiao.  BUT!!!  I forgot the WEREWOLF!!!  Man that is the most difficult part in the whole game in my opinion.  I was hoping to use Celerity, but I did not level it up.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 20, 2019, 10:36:35 AM
I just completed the Leopold quest.  In my first playthrough with the basic patch I had an 8 in stealth, and that was enough to sneak by the hunters.  I mean as soon as I enter the building with the 4 guards nearby.  They never saw me.  With the Plus patch 8 in stealth was not enough.  They saw me.  But I am not complaining the quest was easy.  The head hunter gave me some trouble, but I killed him.  Now I have to go wipe out the Sabbat influence in LA.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 20, 2019, 09:11:39 PM
I'm about to infiltrate the Society of Leopold.  Which should be easy peasy.  I just did the Giovanni and it was fun talking my through.  The zombies gave me a bit of trouble.  The Chang Brothers are always tough, but I know how to kill them easily.  I know I initially said I had no problems in game until Ming Xiao.  BUT!!!  I forgot the WEREWOLF!!!  Man that is the most difficult part in the whole game in my opinion.  I was hoping to use Celerity, but I did not level it up.

I hate the werewolf. That is a really stressful quest. I feel always exhausted after that.

If you play again with the plus patch, there is a possibilty to side with the Sabbat .
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 21, 2019, 02:13:10 AM
I'm about to infiltrate the Society of Leopold.  Which should be easy peasy.  I just did the Giovanni and it was fun talking my through.  The zombies gave me a bit of trouble.  The Chang Brothers are always tough, but I know how to kill them easily.  I know I initially said I had no problems in game until Ming Xiao.  BUT!!!  I forgot the WEREWOLF!!!  Man that is the most difficult part in the whole game in my opinion.  I was hoping to use Celerity, but I did not level it up.

I hate the werewolf. That is a really stressful quest. I feel always exhausted after that.

If you play again with the plus patch, there is a possibilty to side with the Sabbat .

I am playing with the Plus Patch, but I intend to side with the Anarchs, like my fellow Toreador's Isaac and VV.

But yeah that werewolf is really stressful.  If I was a smoker I would have lit up a cigarette after that quest. 

But now I must try to bring up my sneak up to at least 9.  Because I remembered that in my first playthrough I snuck by the vamps during the blood hunt.  Right now it's at level 8.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 21, 2019, 09:19:13 AM
Just completed the Hallowbrook Hotel.  It was pretty easy.  But I have two questions for Wesp5.  Did you move the flamethrower?  Also there was a sword in the basic patch that caused aggravated damage.  Did you move this as well?  Both were located in the hotel in the basic patch.  But in this playthrough with the Plus Patch I could not find them.

Anyway the Tzimisce was tough without the flamethrower.  But I did eventually beat him.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on December 21, 2019, 09:34:34 AM
If I remember correctly in the plus patch the sword was in the inner chamber of the tzimisce and the flamethrower was near Bach's house inside the Leopold's cave
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 21, 2019, 10:08:40 AM
Oh well, I remember in the basic patch Mercurio sold flamethrowers.  Hopefully it's included in the Plus patch.  Now I have to find Nines which means avoiding the werewolf for four minutes!!! I know how to kill him I just have trouble finding the area sometimes.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 21, 2019, 12:53:46 PM
I remember that I bought the flamethrower from Mercurio and the sword is in Andrei's lair, after you defeat him.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 21, 2019, 12:54:25 PM
But I have two questions for Wesp5.  Did you move the flamethrower?  Also there was a sword in the basic patch that caused aggravated damage.  Did you move this as well?  Both were located in the hotel in the basic patch.

Both are still there in the plus patch! The flamethrower can be found near the dead hunter in the new atrium map and the sword is in Andrei's inner sanctum, as Barrabah said. In the original map they were placed right at the beginning in an empty room which makes no sense at all with all the Sabbat around not using them against you! And you can still buy the flamethrower...
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: tarulu on December 21, 2019, 06:56:45 PM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 21, 2019, 11:01:06 PM
But I have two questions for Wesp5.  Did you move the flamethrower?  Also there was a sword in the basic patch that caused aggravated damage.  Did you move this as well?  Both were located in the hotel in the basic patch.

Both are still there in the plus patch! The flamethrower can be found near the dead hunter in the new atrium map and the sword is in Andrei's inner sanctum, as Barrabah said. In the original map they were placed right at the beginning in an empty room which makes no sense at all with all the Sabbat around not using them against you! And you can still buy the flamethrower...

That does make sense, why are the Sabbat not picking up two powerful weapons?  But either way now comes the tough parts.  Werewolf, Ming Xiao, and the Sheriff.  The flamethrower barely does any damage to Ming Xiao, I never used it on the Sheriff.  But the flamethrower did make the fight against the Tzimisce easier in my first playthrough.  Next time when I play as a Malkavian I now know where to find them.  But I still have the Wolverine claws that cause aggravated damage.  So I'm happy.:)

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 22, 2019, 01:06:00 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 22, 2019, 01:26:12 AM
I remember that I bought the flamethrower from Mercurio and the sword is in Andrei's lair, after you defeat him.

After the fight with Andrei I did not stick around for two reasons.  1)  I was low on health and blood.  2) The place creeps me out.  But for next time I know where to find it.  It just adds to the replayability.:)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on December 22, 2019, 03:47:01 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.

If you violate the masquerade too many times, the torch bearing huntresses come after you.  It would make sense for them to be at the hunters HQ.  Funny thing is, they attack you in plain sight even on main streets and the police do nothing.  Punch one of them and the police attack YOU.   
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: tarulu on December 22, 2019, 03:56:35 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.

i don't remember this but it does make sense.but i meant what Nanaloma said...sabbat vampires do use torches in sieges i guess they should use it in hotel too.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: tarulu on December 22, 2019, 04:03:41 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.

If you violate the masquerade too many times, the torch bearing huntresses come after you.  It would make sense for them to be at the hunters HQ.  Funny thing is, they attack you in plain sight even on main streets and the police do nothing.  Punch one of them and the police attack YOU.

perhaps Wesp can fix this! if she attackes you and police are there they would attack her,if you attack her in return police would open fire on both of you but either way streets are too small and police are too much that i don't think it's worth the effort,santa monica and hollywood are bad at that regard and since no hunters in down town....
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 22, 2019, 05:51:04 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.

If you violate the masquerade too many times, the torch bearing huntresses come after you.  It would make sense for them to be at the hunters HQ.  Funny thing is, they attack you in plain sight even on main streets and the police do nothing.  Punch one of them and the police attack YOU.

Oh that's why I only seen one.  I never violated the masquerade.  It's funny though the cops don't do anything until you attack one.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 22, 2019, 06:42:46 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.

i don't remember this but it does make sense.but i meant what Nanaloma said...sabbat vampires do use torches in sieges i guess they should use it in hotel too.

Aside from Andrei aren't the Sabbat idiots?  I mean should they be playing around with incendiary weapons? 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 22, 2019, 07:30:41 AM
I did not get a chance to play today.  But currently up to the part where I have to find Nines.  Which means WEREWOLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's my character sheet as it is now.

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: tarulu on December 22, 2019, 08:50:24 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.

i don't remember this but it does make sense.but i meant what Nanaloma said...sabbat vampires do use torches in sieges i guess they should use it in hotel too.

Aside from Andrei aren't the Sabbat idiots?  I mean should they be playing around with incendiary weapons?
well Sabbat Elders are just like Camarilla however i am not aware much about normal packs.about using incendiary weapons Sabbat vampires do use them because they usually fear fire less then other kindred because they have rituals like fire dance.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 22, 2019, 09:12:20 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.

Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.

i don't remember this but it does make sense.but i meant what Nanaloma said...sabbat vampires do use torches in sieges i guess they should use it in hotel too.

Aside from Andrei aren't the Sabbat idiots?  I mean should they be playing around with incendiary weapons?
well Sabbat Elders are just like Camarilla however i am not aware much about normal packs.about using incendiary weapons Sabbat vampires do use them because they usually fear fire less then other kindred because they have rituals like fire dance.

Oh okay I did not know that.  I am still new to the WoD.  I was just going by what Jack said about the Sabbat soldier you first have to fight in the tutorial.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: tarulu on December 22, 2019, 10:25:58 AM
it would be cool if we can add some Sabbat vampires with torches since they do use torches time to time in books and torch is already in the game and player may not even face it most of times since they not only must break the Masquerade but get lucky(or don't) to get to face the torch women.


Torch women?  I think there was a woman standing in front of the 'Society of Leopold' monastery with a torch?  She was included in the Plus patch, cause I don't remember her in the basic patch.

i don't remember this but it does make sense.but i meant what Nanaloma said...sabbat vampires do use torches in sieges i guess they should use it in hotel too.

Aside from Andrei aren't the Sabbat idiots?  I mean should they be playing around with incendiary weapons?
well Sabbat Elders are just like Camarilla however i am not aware much about normal packs.about using incendiary weapons Sabbat vampires do use them because they usually fear fire less then other kindred because they have rituals like fire dance.

Oh okay I did not know that.  I am still new to the WoD.  I was just going by what Jack said about the Sabbat soldier you first have to fight in the tutorial.

that was a False Sabbat or Shovelhead,what jack said about him was true but there are also True Sabbat which are different and smarter.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on December 22, 2019, 01:57:10 PM
If you violate the masquerade too many times, the torch bearing huntresses come after you.  It would make sense for them to be at the hunters HQ.

This is exactly what I thought, so I restored one there in the plus patch. I hadn't seen one myself as I avoided breaking the masquerade!

Quote
Funny thing is, they attack you in plain sight even on main streets and the police do nothing.  Punch one of them and the police attack YOU.

Sadly, this seems to be a common AI problem that we can't fix. It's not only valid for hunters but all other enemies attacking, cops never act!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 22, 2019, 04:27:21 PM
If you violate the masquerade too many times, the torch bearing huntresses come after you.  It would make sense for them to be at the hunters HQ.

This is exactly what I thought, so I restored one there in the plus patch. I hadn't seen one myself as I avoided breaking the masquerade!

Quote
Funny thing is, they attack you in plain sight even on main streets and the police do nothing.  Punch one of them and the police attack YOU.

Sadly, this seems to be a common AI problem that we can't fix. It's not only valid for hunters but all other enemies attacking, cops never act!

The part about the cops doing nothing while you were being attacked.  I think that was a common AI thing in gaming at the time.  I remember in Morrowind if I was attacked and there was a guard nearby, they would just stand there and either look or ignore me.  In Oblivion the AI got a bit better, guards actually did something.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on December 23, 2019, 12:29:45 AM
Well, they do shoot at you if you fight back in front of them. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 23, 2019, 06:36:44 AM
Just completed my Toreador run.  I aligned with the Anarchs and enjoyed watching LaCroix get scattered all over downtown.  I enjoyed this playthrough very much.  I liked using persuasion especially at the Giovanni mansion and on Therese and Jeanette.  After seeing the Anarch ending there's no doubt now that Jack and the "Cabbie" were behind the whole thing.

Now I will take a break from the game for a few days, and when next I play it will be as a Malkavian.

Here is my final Character Sheet.  I had a 10 in both lockpicking and sneaking, but since I was wearing the heaviest armor, it reduced my dexterity by two.

Edit:  Forgot to say both times I played with both the Basic and Plus patches I encountered no bugs.  Thanks goes to Wesp and his team for making the game playable.

I forgot to mention one of my favorite characters in the game you never see but hear.  I'm talking about Dr. Alistair Grout.  I love hearing his recordings, and hearing how he slowly went insane with the coming doom. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 24, 2019, 06:40:51 AM
Yeah, I love Grouts voice acting too. The whole mansion was delightfully creepy.
Malkavians are my personal favorite and probably most played clan. I love the insight, they have. And the disciplines are quite handy.

Though I do use other skins for my Malk girls, since I find the original skin a bit over the top.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 24, 2019, 07:11:09 AM
Yeah, I love Grouts voice acting too. The whole mansion was delightfully creepy.
Malkavians are my personal favorite and probably most played clan. I love the insight, they have. And the disciplines are quite handy.

Though I do use other skins for my Malk girls, since I find the original skin a bit over the top.

The males look over the top as well lol.  I found a nice looking skin for them, but since I never seen all their vanilla outfits, when I play as them I'll not use the skin.  I think the females are cute.  I think both the Malkavian and Brujah females are cute.  I have not played at all today but I'm getting the urge to play a Malkavian.  I have a question.  When I play as a Malkavian, should I invest in sneak?  Because even though it has a timer they have the Obfuscate ability.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 24, 2019, 08:26:27 AM
As a Malkavian, I never drop points in to sneak. Obfuscate is great and doesn't cost much blood. You can move past most opponents, especially with the higher levels. It's one of my favorite disciplines. I never even tried using sneak as a Malk so far.
I do like the look of the female Malk, but not the clothing, that looks just silly. But the male is worse. I use a skin from the Abtutribu mod, the Tzimisce, it looks very punkrocky and it has the face of the original Malk female (and the ponytail).
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 24, 2019, 08:40:02 AM
As a Malkavian, I never drop points in to sneak. Obfuscate is great and doesn't cost much blood. You can move past most opponents, especially with the higher levels. It's one of my favorite disciplines. I never even tried using sneak as a Malk so far.
I do like the look of the female Malj, but not the clothing, that looks just silly. But the male is worse. I use a skin from the Abtutribu mod, the Tzimisce, it looks very punkrocky and it has the face of the original Malk female (and the ponytail)

Okay, good so I can concentrate on add points to other skills instead.:)  About both the Malkavian female and male.  I haven't played as one yet but from what I hear they're far out there.  I mean we should be glad they even wear clothes. lol

But I will use the skin I found for the Malkavian.

About that mod.  I seen the skins in that mod and they're pretty good.  How would I go about using them for some of the player characters?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 24, 2019, 03:04:17 PM
I just dropped the skin I like to have in the clan model and material folders I want to play and renamed them.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 24, 2019, 05:44:18 PM
Sounds simple enough, thanks!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 24, 2019, 07:30:14 PM
Okay so I gave in and started another playthrough this time as a Malkavian.  Anyway I spoke to Jeanette and had an interesting conversation.  I have one question.  Is our Malkavian crazier than Therese/Jeanette?  Because she says something like the curse hit me hard after I talk to her.

Edit: Oh yeah last night I was playing with headphones on, and when I first talk to jack I begin to hear whispers.  it kinda freaked me out for a minute.  I did not know they heard voices.  But then I remembered Dr. Alistair Grout mentioning he heard voices when no one was speaking.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 24, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
Okay so I gave in and started another playthrough this time as a Malkavian.  Anyway I spoke to Jeanette and had an interesting conversation.  I have one question.  Is our Malkavian crazier than Therese/Jeanette?  Because she says something like the curse hit me hard after I talk to her.

Edit: Oh yeah last night I was playing with headphones on, and when I first talk to jack I begin to hear whispers.  it kinda freaked me out for a minute.  I did not know they heard voices.  But then I remembered Dr. Alistair Grout mentioning he heard voices when no one was speaking.

That must've been super freaky xD ...

... I wonder which features will pass on to the BL2 malkavians. Will be able to talk with stuff like stop signs and the TV ? What about our own dialogue ? Will it switch completely or expand the standard options ?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 25, 2019, 01:13:55 AM
Okay so I gave in and started another playthrough this time as a Malkavian.  Anyway I spoke to Jeanette and had an interesting conversation.  I have one question.  Is our Malkavian crazier than Therese/Jeanette?  Because she says something like the curse hit me hard after I talk to her.

Edit: Oh yeah last night I was playing with headphones on, and when I first talk to jack I begin to hear whispers.  it kinda freaked me out for a minute.  I did not know they heard voices.  But then I remembered Dr. Alistair Grout mentioning he heard voices when no one was speaking.

That must've been super freaky xD ...

... I wonder which features will pass on to the BL2 malkavians. Will be able to talk with stuff like stop signs and the TV ? What about our own dialogue ? Will it switch completely or expand the standard options ?

Lol, he talks to the tv and stop signs?  I did not know that lol.  As for Bloodlines 2 I hope they do it justice.  At least they're given time to properly finish the game. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on December 25, 2019, 02:44:31 AM
There are whispers all through that can give some insight if one can actually understand them when playing Malkavian.  Wesp5 once posted  what they said but that was a while back and I have no idea what thread. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 25, 2019, 03:53:10 AM
There are whispers all through that can give some insight if one can actually understand them when playing Malkavian.  Wesp5 once posted  what they said but that was a while back and I have no idea what thread.

I've been listening to the whispers trying to understand their meaning.  But so far no luck.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Malkav on December 25, 2019, 07:52:39 AM
I think the transscripts for the whispers and some other stuff like Deb are included in the patch extras. When you have read them a few times and know what to expect, you can actually understand some of the whispers. Although most are generic and don't give much insight into the specifics of the situation.

On another matter, have you managed to get turned down by a blooddoll in one of the clubs? Some of the rejection lines are quite good I think.

Oh and the talking STOP sign is easy to miss if you don't know where to look.
It's downtown at one of the closed parking garages. Not the one near the Chantry, the next one in the direction to the Last Round.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 25, 2019, 10:08:04 AM
If you turn on subtitles, the whispers are transkripted too.
One of the nice things about playing Malkavian. The other is, that you just know things.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 25, 2019, 11:14:12 AM
I think the transscripts for the whispers and some other stuff like Deb are included in the patch extras. When you have read them a few times and know what to expect, you can actually understand some of the whispers. Although most are generic and don't give much insight into the specifics of the situation.

On another matter, have you managed to get turned down by a blooddoll in one of the clubs? Some of the rejection lines are quite good I think.

Oh and the talking STOP sign is easy to miss if you don't know where to look.
It's downtown at one of the closed parking garages. Not the one near the Chantry, the next one in the direction to the Last Round.

No, I haven't talked to the blooddoll yet as a Malkavian.  Thank you for letting me know which stop sign it is.  About the whispers, I'l check them out after I complete this playthrough.  Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 28, 2019, 08:25:52 PM
Glad to see the forum is back up.  I have two questions about my Malkavian playthrough involving everyone's favorite twins.  1)  What would a Malkavian do with the locket from the Ocean Hotel?  Would he give it to Jeanette or Therese?  2)  Would he try to save both sisters or just one most likely Jeanette?

P.S. One final question.  Up to what rank should I keep investing into dementation in order to keep getting it as a dialogue choice?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on December 29, 2019, 02:23:02 AM
I
On another matter, have you managed to get turned down by a blooddoll in one of the clubs? Some of the rejection lines are quite good I think.



Wait until you try a blood doll as a nossie - I make it a point to do so just for the fun of it. 

Talyn82 said:  "1)  What would a Malkavian do with the locket from the Ocean Hotel?  Would he give it to Jeanette or Therese?  2)  Would he try to save both sisters or just one most likely Jeanette?"

I think that would depend on the individual Malk.  The cool thing about them being bat crazy is that you can play them most any way and make it part of their individual madness and still be in character.   
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 29, 2019, 03:40:40 AM
I
On another matter, have you managed to get turned down by a blooddoll in one of the clubs? Some of the rejection lines are quite good I think.



Wait until you try a blood doll as a nossie - I make it a point to do so just for the fun of it. 

Talyn82 said:  "1)  What would a Malkavian do with the locket from the Ocean Hotel?  Would he give it to Jeanette or Therese?  2)  Would he try to save both sisters or just one most likely Jeanette?"

I think that would depend on the individual Malk.  The cool thing about them being bat crazy is that you can play them most any way and make it part of their individual madness and still be in character.

Eventually I want to try both a Nosferatu and Gangrel run.  Trying to seduce women as a Nosferatu never crossed my mind. I gotta try.

As for Malkavian's.  Is the madness different in one Malkavian than it is in another?  I mean when my Malk first spoke to Jeanette, she immediately said something like I got it bad.  That I can't tell what's real and what's not.  So to me that tells me my Malk is more crazy than Jeanette.  For a Malkavian, Dr. Alistair Grout sounded sane until his end was nearing.
 

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 29, 2019, 09:30:01 PM
For a Malkavian, Dr. Alistair Grout sounded sane until his end was nearing.

He did, though his manor looked like anything but the image of sanity.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 29, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
For a Malkavian, Dr. Alistair Grout sounded sane until his end was nearing.

He did, though his manor looked like anything but the image of sanity.

I think maybe once Ming Xiao killed Grout she released the loonies.  So maybe the manor wasn't always like that.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on December 30, 2019, 12:23:17 AM
I think maybe once Ming Xiao killed Grout she released the loonies. So maybe the manor wasn't always like that.

Interesting ! Never thought about that before.

Personally I always interpreted Alistair Grout's illness as the most extreme form of malkavian insanity: his curse was so strong that it influenced every internal process and decision he made during his life as a vampire; the difference with other malkavians was that his curse was so subtle that he himself was completely unaware of it.

That's why he seemed so nonchalant about having people locked up in his basement, why he fondly remembered insane asylums and why he placed his wife in suspended animation. He was completely detached from the cruelty and madness of his own actions.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 30, 2019, 01:39:28 AM
I think maybe once Ming Xiao killed Grout she released the loonies. So maybe the manor wasn't always like that.

Interesting ! Never thought about that before.

Personally I always interpreted Alistair Grout's illness as the most extreme form of malkavian insanity: his curse was so strong that it influenced every internal process and decision he made during his life as a vampire; the difference with other malkavians was that his curse was so subtle that he himself was completely unaware of it.

That's why he seemed so nonchalant about having people locked up in his basement, why he fondly remembered insane asylums and why he placed his wife in suspended animation. He was completely detached from the cruelty and madness of his own actions.

Interesting, I never thought of it that way either.  From the early recordings it sounded like he had his madness under control, but as his final days drew closer and closer he began losing control.  So maybe just maybe since he was of higher education and of high society, he knew how to control the madness and not let it overwhelm him until his final days.  According to his recordings he was already a vampire for some time before the Camarilla approached him, and he did not know of the blessing or curse until they told him what type of vamp he was. 

The only reason he was made Primogen was because he had a high place in high society.  At least that's what I understand.  His Sire must've also been someone of high standing if they were not put on trial like the fledgling and their sire were.  I was really looking forward to meeting him.

But I do really like your theory.:)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on December 30, 2019, 02:01:47 AM
I think his sire died in the asylum he worked at when left in the sun or something like that. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 30, 2019, 03:55:19 AM
I think his sire died in the asylum he worked at when left in the sun or something like that.

Interesting.  I still believe his Sire must've been important within the Camarilla.  Because if I understood correctly he was already a vampire when he was approached by the Camarilla.  If the Sire was of no importance both they and Grout would have been executed, because his embrace was not sanctioned.  Anyway that's just my theory.

Are there any sources of information on him outside the game?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 31, 2019, 05:06:43 AM
Okay so my Malk just had an argument with the infamous 'Stop' sign in downtown.  My Malk ended the argument with a stern warning.  He reminded the sign that it had just made a powerful enemy. lol
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Avadonica on December 31, 2019, 08:13:16 PM
Okay so my Malk just had an argument with the infamous 'Stop' sign in downtown.  My Malk ended the argument with a stern warning.  He reminded the sign that it had just made a powerful enemy. lol

Ha ha! Well done! Now remains to talk to the TV... (if you haven't already)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on December 31, 2019, 08:26:42 PM
Oh the tv dialog! <3 one of the best malk moments
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on December 31, 2019, 08:41:50 PM
Okay so my Malk just had an argument with the infamous 'Stop' sign in downtown.  My Malk ended the argument with a stern warning.  He reminded the sign that it had just made a powerful enemy. lol

Ha ha! Well done! Now remains to talk to the TV... (if you haven't already)

Lol no  My Malk hasn't talked to the tv yet.  Though I do it put it on to hear my exploits on the news.  Does it happen at the Santa Monica Haven or the Haven at the Skyline Apartments?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on December 31, 2019, 10:24:03 PM
Okay so my Malk just had an argument with the infamous 'Stop' sign in downtown.  My Malk ended the argument with a stern warning.  He reminded the sign that it had just made a powerful enemy. lol

Ha ha! Well done! Now remains to talk to the TV... (if you haven't already)

Lol no  My Malk hasn't talked to the tv yet.  Though I do it put it on to hear my exploits on the news.  Does it happen at the Santa Monica Haven or the Haven at the Skyline Apartments?

I think, that doesn't matter. At some point, the TV guy just talks to you. But I do think, it happens later in the game.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 01, 2020, 04:12:34 AM
Okay so my Malk just had an argument with the infamous 'Stop' sign in downtown.  My Malk ended the argument with a stern warning.  He reminded the sign that it had just made a powerful enemy. lol

Ha ha! Well done! Now remains to talk to the TV... (if you haven't already)

Lol no  My Malk hasn't talked to the tv yet.  Though I do it put it on to hear my exploits on the news.  Does it happen at the Santa Monica Haven or the Haven at the Skyline Apartments?

I think, that doesn't matter. At some point, the TV guy just talks to you. But I do think, it happens later in the game.

Oh okay, whenever I'm at the Haven I'll turn on the tv.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Malkav on January 02, 2020, 03:38:04 PM
Oh the tv dialog! <3 one of the best malk moments
Nah, it's boring and tiresome. Plus I never get the joke ;)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 03, 2020, 02:14:02 AM
Okay so I did the Elizabeth Dane quest, and it went by very quick as a Malk.  When I did the quest as a Toreador and Tremere I had pretty high sneak level, but I still could be detected when guards were nearby, so I had to use strategy.  Thanks to Obfuscate as a Malk I breezed by avoiding guards.  I have a question.  Should I invest more than two points into Obfuscate?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Malkav on January 03, 2020, 08:38:29 AM
On the Dane there is another way. Next time, if you have a character with halfway decent dialog skills, talk to the first cop you see.
For obfuscate, personally I wouldn't go above 2. There just aren't enough opportunities to use it.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 03, 2020, 09:43:44 AM
I always level Obfuscate as high as possible, but I love to go around undetected, so I always make little ninja Malks.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 03, 2020, 11:55:10 PM
On the Dane there is another way. Next time, if you have a character with halfway decent dialog skills, talk to the first cop you see.
For obfuscate, personally I wouldn't go above 2. There just aren't enough opportunities to use it.

So much yes to this one. Try the computer way next time.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on January 04, 2020, 02:22:41 AM
Overall, sneak works just as well.  Perhaps better as many vampires seem to be able to see right through obscurate (they see you :) ). 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 04, 2020, 05:38:18 AM
On the Dane there is another way. Next time, if you have a character with halfway decent dialog skills, talk to the first cop you see.
For obfuscate, personally I wouldn't go above 2. There just aren't enough opportunities to use it.

How much persuasion do I have to have?  Because my Malk, Bottlecap has a 6 and my previous character a Toreador, Tristan had a 5, and I didn't get any persuasion choices.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 04, 2020, 05:41:06 AM
I always level Obfuscate as high as possible, but I love to go around undetected, so I always make little ninja Malks.

What about dementation how high should I go with that?  I rarely use it on enemies only in dialogue.  But I always try to max out auspex, so I have to save points for that.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 04, 2020, 05:42:37 AM
On the Dane there is another way. Next time, if you have a character with halfway decent dialog skills, talk to the first cop you see.
For obfuscate, personally I wouldn't go above 2. There just aren't enough opportunities to use it.

So much yes to this one. Try the computer way next time.

There's a computer way?  I only know of the security computer.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 04, 2020, 05:44:19 AM
Overall, sneak works just as well.  Perhaps better as many vampires seem to be able to see right through obscurate (they see you :) ).

Yeah, my first two characters a Tremere, Stefan and a Toreador, Tristan had high sneak, and it got me by some tough situations like the blood hunt.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 04, 2020, 05:45:27 AM
My Malk, Bottlecap is in Hollywood right now doing a quest for Miss Velour or Susan.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on January 04, 2020, 12:01:58 PM
Bottlecap?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 04, 2020, 12:25:49 PM
Bottlecap?

Lol yeah.  I took their insanity literally.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 04, 2020, 03:08:36 PM
Interesting approach xD ... I wonder what happens to a Malkavian that was already insane in life ? Does the insanity increase ? Does it change ? He certainly won't be turning sane anytime soon.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 05, 2020, 08:45:23 PM
My Malkav Bottlecap just made it to the Nosferatu Lair.  With the Basic patch I dread doing the Warrens, but thanks to the Plus patch I take the shortcut.  Also Bottlecap convinced the Gargoyle to side with Isaac.  I also found out if you stay crouched those little creatures created by Andrei.  They can't hit you if you're crouched, but you can still hit them.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 05, 2020, 09:31:22 PM
I also found out if you stay crouched those little creatures created by Andrei.  They can't hit you if you're crouched, but you can still hit them.

That trick is so broken that I don't even use it anymore. They just CAN'T TOUCH YOU if you're crouched.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 05, 2020, 10:33:46 PM
I also found out if you stay crouched those little creatures created by Andrei.  They can't hit you if you're crouched, but you can still hit them.

That trick is so broken that I don't even use it anymore. They just CAN'T TOUCH YOU if you're crouched.

I know but I did get smacked around by them when fighting Andrei.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 05, 2020, 10:45:47 PM
I know but I did get smacked around by them when fighting Andrei.

Annoying fellows indeed. Enjoyable to shoot the living kindred out of them with the revolver.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 06, 2020, 02:40:57 AM
I know but I did get smacked around by them when fighting Andrei.

Annoying fellows indeed. Enjoyable to shoot the living kindred out of them with the revolver.

Oh I usually fight them in melee.  Three hacks with the fire ax and they're dead.  Anyway now I'm going to meet two of my favorite vamps.  Mitnick and Gary.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 06, 2020, 03:30:11 AM
No love for our favorite pop star ? That's okay I guess.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 06, 2020, 04:50:45 AM
No love for our favorite pop star ? That's okay I guess.

Oh you mean Imalia?  I like her but I prefer Mitnick and Gary more.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 06, 2020, 12:21:01 PM
I can't imagine anyone disliking Gary Golden. It would be amazing if he came back on BL2.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 06, 2020, 06:55:23 PM
I can't imagine anyone disliking Gary Golden. It would be amazing if he came back on BL2.

I agree.  My only problem is we see too little of him.  He has so much charisma.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wilhelm-Streicher on January 06, 2020, 07:01:19 PM
It would be amazing if he came back on BL2.
Well the "good thing" is that Gary like the rest of the Nosferatu NPCs always survived the events of Bloodlines 1
but the "bad thing" could be this design.
He has the more classic Nosferatu design and in Bloodlines 2 because of V5 they use a more discreet disfigured design for the Nosferatu.
So i really don´t know if Gary, Imalia, Bertram, Mitnick and Barabus are coming back. Also why are they in Seattle?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on January 07, 2020, 12:18:42 AM
Maybe they didn't like Kwai-Jin rule. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 07, 2020, 09:41:40 AM
No love for our favorite pop star ? That's okay I guess.

Oh you mean Imalia?  I like her but I prefer Mitnick and Gary more.

I agree, Mitnick and Gary are the best.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 07, 2020, 06:28:20 PM
Also why are they in Seattle?

Wilhelm "Destroyer of Dreams" Streicher !

I guess it would depend on what their interests might be and what the worth of Seattle might become to kindred overall. Though yeah, there are many reasons why they wouldn't be back.

SOMEONE has to come back though... except Nines... Nines was a douche.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on January 07, 2020, 06:54:17 PM
Why? Nines is a nice chap
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 07, 2020, 08:02:30 PM
Why? Nines is a nice chap

Never liked him. He really is just a rabble-rouser with zero goals or plans for kindred society.

Great character though. I guess if he came back I'd like for it to serve a purpose in the story.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: endthewars on January 07, 2020, 09:39:32 PM
Why? Nines is a nice chap

Never liked him. He really is just a rabble-rouser with zero goals or plans for kindred society.

Great character though. I guess if he came back I'd like for it to serve a purpose in the story.

I can't help but to agree with that. Sure, Nines is a good fella with good intentions, but greatest harm can result from the best intentions. He certainly doesn't strike me as a guy who thinks before he acts.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 08, 2020, 08:52:23 AM
I don't have a problem with Nines, he is not my favorite, but OK. But I really don't want to see VV again, she was so annoying with her constantly 'Oh could you...?'
A possible character we might meet, could be Ash Rivers. I know, he wanted to go to Canada, but since he isn't very effective in what he does, he might be stuck in Seattle..

But of course I hope for a return of gorgeous Gary Golden. He doesn't even have to travel, he could simply contact you via video chat or something like that.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on January 08, 2020, 09:23:11 AM
I love his spam mail titles :3
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Malkav on January 08, 2020, 12:36:51 PM
Why? Nines is a nice chap

Never liked him. He really is just a rabble-rouser with zero goals or plans for kindred society.

Great character though. I guess if he came back I'd like for it to serve a purpose in the story.
So who do you think has plans for kindred society?
Sebastian "I'll do anything for my personal power" Lacroix?
Max "If anything happens, blame the Anarchs" Strauss?
Gary "I sold it for some gossip" Golden?
Not very much of a vision there.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: endthewars on January 08, 2020, 01:07:58 PM
You know whom I would like to see again?

Damsel..

I always felt like there should have been more to her character. She should have been an interesting character..
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 08, 2020, 02:30:20 PM
She should have been an interesting character..

Well, she was... she just wasn't deeply involved in the plot. Regardless I would also love seeing her fiery mad self back.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on January 09, 2020, 05:24:48 AM
Why? Nines is a nice chap

Never liked him. He really is just a rabble-rouser with zero goals or plans for kindred society.

Great character though. I guess if he came back I'd like for it to serve a purpose in the story.
So who do you think has plans for kindred society?
Sebastian "I'll do anything for my personal power" Lacroix?
Max "If anything happens, blame the Anarchs" Strauss?
Gary "I sold it for some gossip" Golden?
Not very much of a vision there.

With me, he just comes across as a hypocrite more so then the others.  He calls others ass holes without realizing that he acts the same as they do.  Plus, he has a short fuse.  Kind of like a corrupt sheriff in the wild west - everyone can do what they want to do unless I don't like it. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 09, 2020, 06:58:22 AM
Why? Nines is a nice chap

Never liked him. He really is just a rabble-rouser with zero goals or plans for kindred society.

Great character though. I guess if he came back I'd like for it to serve a purpose in the story.
So who do you think has plans for kindred society?
Sebastian "I'll do anything for my personal power" Lacroix?
Max "If anything happens, blame the Anarchs" Strauss?
Gary "I sold it for some gossip" Golden?
Not very much of a vision there.

With me, he just comes across as a hypocrite more so then the others.  He calls others ass holes without realizing that he acts the same as they do.  Plus, he has a short fuse.  Kind of like a corrupt sheriff in the wild west - everyone can do what they want to do unless I don't like it.

Who Nines?  I did not get that feeling at all.  He just sounds like your typical anti-establishment radical. As a fellow Hispanic I was happy with the way he was portrayed.  He wasn't your stereotypical loud foul mouthed hot blooded Latino.  He seems to be very laid back and the only time I saw him really angry was in the beginning at the trial.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 09, 2020, 12:31:23 PM
I agree with Talyn about Nines. He is a straight forward guy, who doesn't give you any lies or bullshit. You can agree with him or not, but at least, he is trying to be decent, that is more, that can be said about other characters.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 09, 2020, 02:19:31 PM
I agree with Talyn about Nines. He is a straight forward guy, who doesn't give you any lies or bullshit. You can agree with him or not, but at least, he is trying to be decent, that is more, that can be said about other characters.

How decent is someone when their goal inherently endangers the society they live in ?

He's kind of a dick too "Two minutes rookie, I'm busy right now"... and then he just slums at his bar. That's just mean xD ...
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 09, 2020, 02:34:18 PM
I agree with Talyn about Nines. He is a straight forward guy, who doesn't give you any lies or bullshit. You can agree with him or not, but at least, he is trying to be decent, that is more, that can be said about other characters.

How decent is someone when their goal inherently endangers the society they live in ?

He's kind of a dick too "Two minutes rookie, I'm busy right now"... and then he just slums at his bar. That's just mean xD ...

Aren't you a Toreador?  My point is Isaac and VV are Anarchs and they're Toreador.  I just thought all of clan Toreador is aligned with them?  As for his goals endangering their society.  Nines and Damsel say the Anarchs kicked out the Camarilla sixty years ago, and everything was just fine until Lacroix showed up.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on January 09, 2020, 02:37:14 PM
How decent is someone when their goal inherently endangers the society they live in ?

Since when is this true? The Anarchs acknowledge the Masquerade as much as the Camarilla.

Quote
He's kind of a dick too "Two minutes rookie, I'm busy right now"... and then he just slums at his bar.

I agree with you on that, but it was probably added by Troika to avoid players getting all his stats upgrades ;)!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 09, 2020, 03:03:44 PM
Aren't you a Toreador?  My point is Isaac and VV are Anarchs and they're Toreador.  I just thought all of clan Toreador is aligned with them?  As for his goals endangering their society.  Nines and Damsel say the Anarchs kicked out the Camarilla sixty years ago, and everything was just fine until Lacroix showed up.

Clan and sect don't always align. Clearly the big figureheads of LA kindreds are anarch but many Toreador still side with the Camarilla.

Well, I think it's easier to rally the kindred into fighting the kuei-jin because it's an easy enemy everyone can gather against. Ruling however, is an entirely different matter.

Since when is this true? The Anarchs acknowledge the Masquerade as much as the Camarilla.

What about other issues ? What is the limit for embracing and who becomes responsible for said event ? Who takes care of the sireless caitiff ? Are there punishable offenses for attacks against kine ? Who regulates disputes and territory among the several power-hungry barons that will obviously arise without a prince ?

Ruling vampires isn't an easy task... but that point seems to fly right above Nines' head.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on January 09, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
I will also ask Wesp5 now (since it might be useful): are special presence dialogue options unlocked by investing points in the discipline in the UP patch ?

Yes, I added some, but as I only had existing voice-overs to work with, they are not many and not that special. Rather like Domination or Intimidation.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 09, 2020, 05:37:32 PM


Since when is this true? The Anarchs acknowledge the Masquerade as much as the Camarilla.

What about other issues ? What is the limit for embracing and who becomes responsible for said event ? Who takes care of the sireless caitiff ? Are there punishable offenses for attacks against kine ? Who regulates disputes and territory among the several power-hungry barons that will obviously arise without a prince ?

Ruling vampires isn't an easy task... but that point seems to fly right above Nines' head.

I don't know where you get that from, since the Anarchs clearly state, that they have no problem with the masquerade, they just don't like the Camarilla ranking and ruling stuff - and they seemed to have had no problems holding up the masquerade before. Is there some dialogue or so that states, that the Anarchs don't care about wild embracing etc.? I'm honestly curious, because while I have played the game often (around 30 times so far), I might have missed some bit of dialogue.

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 09, 2020, 05:52:13 PM
I don't know where you get that from, since the Anarchs clearly state, that they have no problem with the masquerade, they just don't like the Camarilla ranking and ruling stuff - and they seemed to have had no problems holding up the masquerade before. Is there some dialogue or so thta states, that the Anarchs don't care about wild embracing etc.? I'm honestly curious, because while I have played the game often (around 30 times so far), I mught have missed some bit of dialogue.

I think it depends on what "The Masquerade" really means. To me it means hiding your identity as kindred from humanity in general and avoiding all actions that inevitably reveal your status as a vampire to others. Now wether that also applies to all the other issues I'm talking about it's another matter.

Think about this: did your fledgling ask to be turned into a vampire ? I'm sure she enjoyed the shit out of it later... but maybe there's a reason why the Camarilla does things the way they do.

For my part, I take a bit of what Bertram Tung says, who is completely swinging for the Camarilla; though I don't fully like Tung (as a person, awesome character), I still find his arguments to be reasonable: there's a ton of ugly shit that happens when there's no one to enforce the law, and anarchs usually rule (to my understanding) through Barons, which seems like a problematic form of government.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 09, 2020, 06:53:54 PM
I don't know where you get that from, since the Anarchs clearly state, that they have no problem with the masquerade, they just don't like the Camarilla ranking and ruling stuff - and they seemed to have had no problems holding up the masquerade before. Is there some dialogue or so thta states, that the Anarchs don't care about wild embracing etc.? I'm honestly curious, because while I have played the game often (around 30 times so far), I mught have missed some bit of dialogue.

I think it depends on what "The Masquerade" really means. To me it means hiding your identity as kindred from humanity in general and avoiding all actions that inevitably reveal your status as a vampire to others. Now wether that also applies to all the other issues I'm talking about it's another matter.

Think about this: did your fledgling ask to be turned into a vampire ? I'm sure she enjoyed the shit out of it later... but maybe there's a reason why the Camarilla does things the way they do.

For my part, I take a bit of what Bertram Tung says, who is completely swinging for the Camarilla; though I don't fully like Tung (as a person, awesome character), I still find his arguments to be reasonable: there's a ton of ugly shit that happens when there's no one to enforce the law, and anarchs usually rule (to my understanding) through Barons, which seems like a problematic form of government.

You do realise, that the fledglings sire was an upstanding member of the Camarilla as Lacroix stated during the opening scene? And I haven't met any Anarch that revealed his or her identity to (non-ghoul) humans. I was of the opinion, the Anarchs were no less upholding the Masquerade than the Camarilla. Damsel and Strauß for example were both looking into the plague bearers. Skelter wanted that blabbing ghoul, Patty, stopped. Isaac wanted the snuff video, because he suspected, a vampire was behind it. I don't see them care any less about it, than the Camarilla. The only difference is, that the Anarchs don't like the power games (well ... with the exception of Therese probably, but I don't count her as a real Anarch, Jeanette is the Anarch of the two sisters).
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 09, 2020, 07:13:11 PM
You do realise, that the fledglings sire was an upstanding member of the Camarilla as Lacroix stated during the opening scene? And I haven't met any Anarch that reveald his or her identity to (non-ghoul) humans. I was of the opinion, the Anarchs were no less upholding the Masquerade than the Camarilla. Damsel and Strauß for example were both looking into the plague bearers. Skelter wanted that blabbing ghoul, Patty, stopped. Isaac wanted the snuff video, because he suspected, a vampire was behind it. I don't see them care any less about it, than the Camarilla. The only difference is, that the Anarchs don't like the power games (well ... with the exception of Therese probably, but I don't count her as a real Anarch, Jeanette is the Anarch of the two sisters).

I understand all of this, but these issues seem to be related to the status of the masquerade in general, rather than with the management of kindred society.

Let's just take one example: Nines thinks it was unfair to kill our sire. Okay, fair enough.

What would've been Nines' solution then ? To let your sire raise you and induct you into kindred life. But what does that say about embracing kine in general ? Can you fool any man or woman into having sex and then turn her into a vampire ? Is anyone allowed to do that in anarch society ? What are the limits ? Do you embrace yearly ? Monthly ? One for Valentine's, two for Halloween ? If any other kine discovers that you've embraced, then should you receive the final death ?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 09, 2020, 07:21:29 PM
You do realise, that the fledglings sire was an upstanding member of the Camarilla as Lacroix stated during the opening scene? And I haven't met any Anarch that reveald his or her identity to (non-ghoul) humans. I was of the opinion, the Anarchs were no less upholding the Masquerade than the Camarilla. Damsel and Strauß for example were both looking into the plague bearers. Skelter wanted that blabbing ghoul, Patty, stopped. Isaac wanted the snuff video, because he suspected, a vampire was behind it. I don't see them care any less about it, than the Camarilla. The only difference is, that the Anarchs don't like the power games (well ... with the exception of Therese probably, but I don't count her as a real Anarch, Jeanette is the Anarch of the two sisters).

I understand all of this, but these issues seem to be related to the status of the masquerade in general, rather than with the management of kindred society.

Let's just take one example: Nines thinks it was unfair to kill our sire. Okay, fair enough.

What would've been Nines' solution then ? To let your sire raise you and induct you into kindred life. But what does that say about embracing kine in general ? Can you fool any man or woman into having sex and then turn her into a vampire ? Is anyone allowed to do that in anarch society ? What are the limits ? Do you embrace yearly ? Monthly ? One for Valentine's, two for Halloween ? If any other kine discovers that you've embraced, then should you receive the final death ?

Well, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure, Anarchs have population control too. Nines seems clearly be the though hide and soft core kind of guy. He was about to let those Sabbat guys walk away and only killed the one, that attacked him again. He might have punished the fledglings sire in another way, I don't know. Or he believes in second chances. At least I think, he would have heard the sire out, before making a decision.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 09, 2020, 07:27:05 PM
Well, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure, Anarchs have population control too. Nines seems clearly be the though hide and soft core kind of guy. He was about to let those Sabbat guys walk away and only killed the one, that attacked him again. He might have punished the fledglings sire in another way, I don't know. Or he believes in second chances. At least I think, he would have heard the sire out, before making a decision.

It's a point of discussion for which I also don't really know a lot about. Maybe Nines would've chopped his head... AFTER a trial. But these little issues are what usually concerns me about anarchs.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 09, 2020, 07:31:10 PM
Well, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure, Anarchs have population control too. Nines seems clearly be the though hide and soft core kind of guy. He was about to let those Sabbat guys walk away and only killed the one, that attacked him again. He might have punished the fledglings sire in another way, I don't know. Or he believes in second chances. At least I think, he would have heard the sire out, before making a decision.

It's a point of discussion for which I also don't really know a lot about. Maybe Nines would've chopped his head... AFTER a trial. But these little issues are what usually concerns me about anarchs.

My point is just that the Anarchs in the game are not messier or less organised than the Camarilla, I would say, the opposite is the case, since in the Camarilla, Lacroix is doing his own thing and killing his own people along the way, Strauß loves to plot against Lacroix and Gary is selling the informations to the highest bidder - at least, the Anarchs stick together more and seem to be more in line with their goals.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on January 09, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
Let's just take one example: Nines thinks it was unfair to kill our sire. Okay, fair enough.

I don't think this is true. I believe Nines isn't happy with the Sire being killed because LaCroix uses it to celebrate his power, but he does not yet speak up! Only when he thinks the player will be killed too, he acts because the player is innocent and did not conciously break a law.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 09, 2020, 10:06:11 PM
Aren't you a Toreador?  My point is Isaac and VV are Anarchs and they're Toreador.  I just thought all of clan Toreador is aligned with them?  As for his goals endangering their society.  Nines and Damsel say the Anarchs kicked out the Camarilla sixty years ago, and everything was just fine until Lacroix showed up.

Clan and sect don't always align. Clearly the big figureheads of LA kindreds are anarch but many Toreador still side with the Camarilla.

Well, I think it's easier to rally the kindred into fighting the kuei-jin because it's an easy enemy everyone can gather against. Ruling however, is an entirely different matter.

Since when is this true? The Anarchs acknowledge the Masquerade as much as the Camarilla.

What about other issues ? What is the limit for embracing and who becomes responsible for said event ? Who takes care of the sireless caitiff ? Are there punishable offenses for attacks against kine ? Who regulates disputes and territory among the several power-hungry barons that will obviously arise without a prince ?

Ruling vampires isn't an easy task... but that point seems to fly right above Nines' head.

I thought all vampires were loyal to their Primogens.  Isn't Isaac the Primogen of the LA Toreador? 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 09, 2020, 10:26:24 PM
Primogen is the clan leader of a city in the Camarillo. Isaac is the Baron of Hollywood, but not a Primogen.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: endthewars on January 09, 2020, 10:55:33 PM
Let's just take one example: Nines thinks it was unfair to kill our sire. Okay, fair enough.

I don't think this is true. I believe Nines isn't happy with the Sire being killed because LaCroix uses it to celebrate his power, but he does not yet speak up! Only when he thinks the player will be killed too, he acts because the player is innocent and did not consciously break a law.

You are right, he is a anti-establishment kind of guy, but he doesn't go around needlessly breaking rules just to break rules either. At least not consciously.

I still think he doesn't ever consider the consequences of his actions. He doesn't appear to be a man who can plan ahead.

He is a great guy, just not a great leader for a faction.

This is just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 09, 2020, 11:16:25 PM
Primogen is the clan leader of a city in the Camarillo. Isaac is the Baron of Hollywood, but not a Primogen.

Oh my mistake.  I could have sworn he was with the other Primogens in the scene where you return to Lacroix, and he is meeting with them.  I thought Isaac was there.

But anyway I'm still new to WOD.  I assumed vampires had to stay loyal to their clans.  For example my Toreador sided with the Anarchs in the end because Isaac, VV and possibly Ash were aligned with them.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on January 10, 2020, 02:45:51 AM
Primogen is the clan leader of a city in the Camarillo. Isaac is the Baron of Hollywood, but not a Primogen.

Oh my mistake.  I could have sworn he was with the other Primogens in the scene where you return to Lacroix, and he is meeting with them.  I thought Isaac was there.

But anyway I'm still new to WOD.  I assumed vampires had to stay loyal to their clans.  For example my Toreador sided with the Anarchs in the end because Isaac, VV and possibly Ash were aligned with them.

I'm not sure how that works, really.  Nines was there and he wasn't a primogen but in later novels, there was mention about an LA Brujha primogen named Nines sometime after the game events.  In the primogen meeting at the tower, I didn't recognize any of the characters (except possibly Strauss - don't remember if he was there or not). 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 10, 2020, 02:57:13 AM
Primogen is the clan leader of a city in the Camarillo. Isaac is the Baron of Hollywood, but not a Primogen.

Oh my mistake.  I could have sworn he was with the other Primogens in the scene where you return to Lacroix, and he is meeting with them.  I thought Isaac was there.

But anyway I'm still new to WOD.  I assumed vampires had to stay loyal to their clans.  For example my Toreador sided with the Anarchs in the end because Isaac, VV and possibly Ash were aligned with them.

I'm not sure how that works, really.  Nines was there and he wasn't a primogen but in later novels, there was mention about an LA Brujha primogen named Nines sometime after the game events.  In the primogen meeting at the tower, I didn't recognize any of the characters (except possibly Strauss - don't remember if he was there or not).

I don't remember seeing Nines either.  I do remember seeing Strauss and "Gorgeous" Gary Golden for sure, and I'm not 100% sure but I think Isaac may have been there.  There was also a generic male Ventrue and a female who's clan I cannot recall.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on January 10, 2020, 03:32:08 AM
As far as Nines having a short fuse, that was the impression I got from the conversations you have with him.  Mention anything he doesn't like like that would be expected from someone who knew so little and was trying to learn (like, aren't you the prince of the anarchs?) and he gets a bur up his butt.  As far as how anarchs police themselves, one has to understand how real-life ones thought.  The belief is in little or no government with each person doing the right thing.  If someone steals, the community takes care of it.  It's pretty much the opposite of rule by law and is often unfair as the accused is dealt with so quickly that the innocent are often convicted by people's courts.  Yes, I know courts make mistakes and judges abuse power but it happens far less in a rule by law atmosphere.  In pre-civil war Spain, the anarchs were the largest group in the Republican government but due to their lack of caring about national politics, the communists with Soviet help were able to take charge of the government prompting the soon to be war lord Franco to revolt.  Their lack of co-operation with the other groups left them easy pickings to Franco's army (the communists, with their inherent solid organization were another story and usually bested Franco's army) and that is the model I see when it was mentioned that earlier that the game anarchs actions were against society.  In game, it is mention that the anarch movement has largely failed as the camerilla, a feudal-like system, picked them off one at a time with only LA left. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 10, 2020, 04:14:30 AM
As far as Nines having a short fuse, that was the impression I got from the conversations you have with him.  Mention anything he doesn't like like that would be expected from someone who knew so little and was trying to learn (like, aren't you the prince of the anarchs?) and he gets a bur up his butt.  As far as how anarchs police themselves, one has to understand how real-life ones thought.  The belief is in little or no government with each person doing the right thing.  If someone steals, the community takes care of it.  It's pretty much the opposite of rule by law and is often unfair as the accused is dealt with so quickly that the innocent are often convicted by people's courts.  Yes, I know courts make mistakes and judges abuse power but it happens far less in a rule by law atmosphere.  In pre-civil war Spain, the anarchs were the largest group in the Republican government but due to their lack of caring about national politics, the communists with Soviet help were able to take charge of the government prompting the soon to be war lord Franco to revolt.  Their lack of co-operation with the other groups left them easy pickings to Franco's army (the communists, with their inherent solid organization were another story and usually bested Franco's army) and that is the model I see when it was mentioned that earlier that the game anarchs actions were against society.  In game, it is mention that the anarch movement has largely failed as the camerilla, a feudal-like system, picked them off one at a time with only LA left.

Didn't Nines say it was the Kuei Jin that picked them off?  When asking him to ally himself with the Camarilla against the Kuei Jin.  He says something like he'd consider it.  That it wasn't they (The Camarilla) who nearly wiped them out.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 10, 2020, 06:20:54 AM
It was the Kuei Jin, that picked the Anarchs off one by one.

Nines wasn't with the Primogen in the tower. He only was in the theatre in the beginning.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on January 10, 2020, 09:50:12 AM
It was the Kuei Jin, that picked the Anarchs off one by one.

Really? I thought they only attacked them in LA. I think one problem of the Anarch is that they are fighting a lot between themselves, like one Baron against another. Which might be the reason why Nines tells the player that he doesn't want to be the Anarch leader!

Quote
Nines wasn't with the Primogen in the tower. He only was in the theatre in the beginning.

Exactly. And Strauss and Gary are only there because I placed them there. In the original game it's a bunch of player model clones.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 10, 2020, 10:38:06 AM
It was the Kuei Jin, that picked the Anarchs off one by one.

Really? I thought they only attacked them in LA. I think one problem of the Anarch is that they are fighting a lot between themselves, like one Baron against another. Which might be the reason why Nines tells the player that he doesn't want to be the Anarch leader!


Exactly. I wasn't talking about the general WOD, only the situation in LA.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 10, 2020, 01:51:38 PM
I don't think this is true. I believe Nines isn't happy with the Sire being killed because LaCroix uses it to celebrate his power, but he does not yet speak up! Only when he thinks the player will be killed too, he acts because the player is innocent and did not conciously break a law.

That probably speaks worse of Nines. Maybe he thinks he can turn the fledgling to his side at that point.

Also, it says something worse that he takes an aggressive stance against the camarilla and yet he doesn't want to lead the anarchs; he really just wants... anarchy.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on January 10, 2020, 02:59:36 PM
You aren't a fan of Anarchs, I bet
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 10, 2020, 03:14:30 PM
You aren't a fan of Anarchs, I bet

I think I'm in the middle. I see what the Camarilla is trying to do but hate seeing them fuck up so much.

And I like what the anarchs want to achieve for kindreds, I just hate that they're allergic to planning.

That's why I'm interested to see what these "Pioneers" are all about in BL2.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 10, 2020, 04:40:19 PM
I think, it might vary from city to city. I don't think, being an Anarch means being allergic to planning. And I bet there are cities, where the Camarilla society is a bit more open minded and the prince maybe not a complete douche - I think, Lacroix is a very poor example.
I would like to see a Sabbats persective one day, because so far, they only where used as the cheap villains of the story. Though I think, the Sabbat is the most chaotic of all sects from what I have read so far (novels, rule books etc., at the moment Becketts Jyhad diary, which is somewhere between novel, sorcebook and campaign).
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on January 10, 2020, 05:49:47 PM
And I like what the anarchs want to achieve for kindreds, I just hate that they're allergic to planning.

I think Anarchs can plan as much as everyone else, just think what Jack does with the sarcopaghus! Which Nines is aware off, as he never even cares about it...
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 10, 2020, 05:50:14 PM
I think, it might vary from city to city. I don't think, being an Anarch means being allergic to planning. And I bet there are cities, where the Camarilla society is a bit more open minded and the prince maybe not a complete douche - I think, Lacroix is a very poor example. I would like to see a Sabbats persective one day, because so far, they only where used as the cheap villains of the story. Though I think, the Sabbat is the most chaotic of all sects from what I have read so far (novels, rule books etc., at the moment Becketts Jyhad diary, which is somewhere between novel, sorcebook and campaign).

I think this is a very fair assesment. I would deffinitely express my thoughts about the LA anarchs but vampires clearly structure things very differently from each city. This is clear from seeing what the factions are in BL2.

I also cannot imagine not seeing a Sabbat perspective in BL2. It's very likely that's how the game begins seeing it's possible we come to diablerize someone.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 10, 2020, 10:37:04 PM
I don't think, that we will see much of the Sabbat in B2, but generally it would be nice to see them as more than the villains. As Bertram puts it: no side are the good guys here
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 10, 2020, 10:56:17 PM
It would be fun to see the Camarilla, Anarchs and Sabbat being forced to cooperate against the Kuei-Jin. Can't ever imagine something like that even happening but I did like how BL1 almost had that with Lacroix's alliance proposal.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on January 11, 2020, 01:01:00 AM
As far as Nines having a short fuse, that was the impression I got from the conversations you have with him.  Mention anything he doesn't like like that would be expected from someone who knew so little and was trying to learn (like, aren't you the prince of the anarchs?) and he gets a bur up his butt.  As far as how anarchs police themselves, one has to understand how real-life ones thought.  The belief is in little or no government with each person doing the right thing.  If someone steals, the community takes care of it.  It's pretty much the opposite of rule by law and is often unfair as the accused is dealt with so quickly that the innocent are often convicted by people's courts.  Yes, I know courts make mistakes and judges abuse power but it happens far less in a rule by law atmosphere.  In pre-civil war Spain, the anarchs were the largest group in the Republican government but due to their lack of caring about national politics, the communists with Soviet help were able to take charge of the government prompting the soon to be war lord Franco to revolt.  Their lack of co-operation with the other groups left them easy pickings to Franco's army (the communists, with their inherent solid organization were another story and usually bested Franco's army) and that is the model I see when it was mentioned that earlier that the game anarchs actions were against society.  In game, it is mention that the anarch movement has largely failed as the camerilla, a feudal-like system, picked them off one at a time with only LA left.

Didn't Nines say it was the Kuei Jin that picked them off?  When asking him to ally himself with the Camarilla against the Kuei Jin.  He says something like he'd consider it.  That it wasn't they (The Camarilla) who nearly wiped them out.

I took that to mean in LA - the Kwai'Jin didn't have any influence inland and were recent new comers to LA and pulled out not too long after the game time but after becoming the real power there.  Well, according to the now ret-conned novels. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on January 11, 2020, 02:17:34 AM
It would be fun to see the Camarilla, Anarchs and Sabbat being forced to cooperate against the Kuei-Jin. Can't ever imagine something like that even happening
Well, Baali made this possible
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 11, 2020, 01:50:56 PM
Well, Baali made this possible

Congrats to the Baali then. Far more than the Tzimisce can accomplish.

I have a question though, for anyone that is up to their WOD knowledge:

Are vampires part of the wyrm ? Or do werevolves just believe that ?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: endthewars on January 11, 2020, 02:47:42 PM
And I like what the anarchs want to achieve for kindreds, I just hate that they're allergic to planning.

I think Anarchs can plan as much as everyone else, just think what Jack does with the sarcopaghus! Which Nines is aware off, as he never even cares about it...

They know about a plan someone else has and they try not to interfere with it. That's not the same as planning.

I sided with the Anarchs majority of the playtroughs I had, I really prefer them against any group because I believe their hearts in the right place, but lets face the facts, it looks like they have no idea where they are going or what they are doing.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 11, 2020, 03:28:34 PM
They know about a plan someone else has and they try not to interfere with it. That's not the same as planning.

Arguably that's only Jack though.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 12, 2020, 05:47:14 AM
I have a question.  I know that Rosa is a thin blood but was she sired by a Malkavian? 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 12, 2020, 06:27:04 AM
I have a question.  I know that Rosa is a thin blood but was she sired by a Malkavian? 

It's never said, but yes, she ha to be Malkavian with her insight.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 12, 2020, 07:43:07 AM
I have a question.  I know that Rosa is a thin blood but was she sired by a Malkavian? 

It's never said, but yes, she ha to be Malkavian with her insight.

Thank you for the answer.  Like you say they never say who sired her.  But she does sound like a Malkavian.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 12, 2020, 06:29:24 PM
I just did the Giovanni portion of the game as a Malk, and the guests just responded normally to my crazy answers.  For example the guest who tries to get you to invest.  He asks my Malk what he does for a living.  My Malk answered he was an egg sandwich, and the guy just continued the conversation like normal.  I guess this is one of the things Troika could not finish in time.  But at least after the quest Beckett had some unique things to say to a Malkavian.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 12, 2020, 09:48:00 PM
Maybe the Giovanni are just used to madness, seeing as incest is normal in the human part of the family. At least, that was my headcanon.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 12, 2020, 10:06:40 PM
They probably know "crazy people" used to attend their parties without actually realizing they were malkavians. Huh.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 12, 2020, 10:32:52 PM
Maybe the Giovanni are just used to madness, seeing as incest is normal in the human part of the family. At least, that was my headcanon.

After I posted that I realized the Giovanni's are supposed to be decadent and weird.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 12, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
They probably know "crazy people" used to attend their parties without actually realizing they were malkavians. Huh.

Yeah that's true.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Nanaloma on January 13, 2020, 02:16:13 AM
I took him as so interested in getting the deal that he wasn't listening to what you were saying or just blew it off - after all, a crazy person's money spends the same as anyone else's. 
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 02:58:12 AM
I took him as so interested in getting the deal that he wasn't listening to what you were saying or just blew it off - after all, a crazy person's money spends the same as anyone else's.

That's true as well I never thought of it that way.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 13, 2020, 03:11:56 AM
I took him as so interested in getting the deal that he wasn't listening to what you were saying or just blew it off - after all, a crazy person's money spends the same as anyone else's.

Do the other Giovanni siblings still respond normally though ? Can't exactly justify those.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 04:23:59 AM
I took him as so interested in getting the deal that he wasn't listening to what you were saying or just blew it off - after all, a crazy person's money spends the same as anyone else's.

Do the other Giovanni siblings still respond normally though ? Can't exactly justify those.

They all react normally but that could be because they are all so preoccupied with keeping their secrets, and getting chosen for the kiss, that they pay no attention to a Malk's crazy questions and responses.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 06:05:39 AM
I have 2 quick questions.  I am on my third playthrough and was wondering how many endings are there?  So far I saw the one with Strauss, and then when Lacroix blows himself up, and also in the same playthrough the ending where my character blew himself up, both the latter two endings end with Jack talking to the Cabbie (Caine?).  So is that two or three endings?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 13, 2020, 06:15:53 AM
I think there are five endings, six with patch plus.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 06:25:20 AM
I think there are five endings, six with patch plus.

Oh okay. :)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on January 13, 2020, 11:19:36 AM
Here are the endings, most are decided during the taxi ride. Camarilla and Sabbat can be chosen or messed up earlier.

Prince
Anarch
Solo
(all three very similar)
Camarilla
Kuij-Yin
Sabbat (plus patch only, a combination of the two above)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 13, 2020, 01:28:30 PM
It ain't that hard to write Kuei-Jin xD ...
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 01:55:31 PM
Here are the endings, most are decided during the taxi ride. Camarilla and Sabbat can be chosen or messed up earlier.

Prince
Anarch
Solo
(all three very similar)
Camarilla
Kuij-Yin
Sabbat (plus patch only, a combination of the two above)

Thank you for the information.  I just destroyed the Sabbat with my Malk.  I was able to find the flamethrower and that sword that causes aggravated damage.  Andrei quickly went down when I used the flamethrower on him.  Now comes the one of two parts I dread.  The werewolf.  I have a question if I use Obfuscate will it see me?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 13, 2020, 02:14:36 PM
I have a question if I use Obfuscate will it see me?

I don't really know but I would imagine he can smell you.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: tarulu on January 13, 2020, 02:42:28 PM
Here are the endings, most are decided during the taxi ride. Camarilla and Sabbat can be chosen or messed up earlier.

Prince
Anarch
Solo
(all three very similar)
Camarilla
Kuij-Yin
Sabbat (plus patch only, a combination of the two above)

Thank you for the information.  I just destroyed the Sabbat with my Malk.  I was able to find the flamethrower and that sword that causes aggravated damage.  Andrei quickly went down when I used the flamethrower on him.  Now comes the one of two parts I dread.  The werewolf.  I have a question if I use Obfuscate will it see me?
Yes,Obfuscate will not work.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 04:24:23 PM
I have a question if I use Obfuscate will it see me?

I don't really know but I would imagine he can smell you.

Lol, yeah I forgot about that.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 04:25:38 PM
Here are the endings, most are decided during the taxi ride. Camarilla and Sabbat can be chosen or messed up earlier.

Prince
Anarch
Solo
(all three very similar)
Camarilla
Kuij-Yin
Sabbat (plus patch only, a combination of the two above)

Thank you for the information.  I just destroyed the Sabbat with my Malk.  I was able to find the flamethrower and that sword that causes aggravated damage.  Andrei quickly went down when I used the flamethrower on him.  Now comes the one of two parts I dread.  The werewolf.  I have a question if I use Obfuscate will it see me?
Yes,Obfuscate will not work.

So it's safe to say Obfuscate does not work on supernatural beings?
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 13, 2020, 05:10:22 PM
So it's safe to say Obfuscate does not work on supernatural beings?

You can use obfuscate and remain unnoticed by vampires. It just seems logical that a creature with greatly enhanced senses (like a werewolf or perhaps a kindred with Auspex) would not be blind to that discipline.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 05:39:27 PM
So it's safe to say Obfuscate does not work on supernatural beings?

You can use obfuscate and remain unnoticed by vampires. It just seems logical that a creature with greatly enhanced senses (like a werewolf or perhaps a kindred with Auspex) would not be blind to that discipline.

Well I finally passed the werewolf part.  It took me five tries but I got it.  Obfuscate does not work on it.  It's like you said it has heightened senses.  As for Obfuscate working on other vamps, I will try now, since I am up to the blood hunt part.  So I will see if it works.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 13, 2020, 05:49:40 PM
Well I finally passed the werewolf part.  It took me five tries but I got it.  Obfuscate does not work on it.  It's like you said it has heightened senses.  As for Obfuscate working on other vamps, I will try now, since I am up to the blood hunt part.  So I will see if it works.

Really ? That many tries... I guess Celerity does make a huge difference ;)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 13, 2020, 07:27:00 PM
Obfuscate works well during the bloodhunt.

I hate the werewolf part, it's really stressful.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 10:03:33 PM
Obfuscate works well during the bloodhunt.

I hate the werewolf part, it's really stressful.

I know it's very stressful.  Like I said before if I was a smoker, every time I got through this part I would light up a cigarette to calm my nerves.  I hope one day they make a WOD werewolf game, where the player gets to be a werewolf.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 13, 2020, 10:06:12 PM
I hate the werewolf part, it's really stressful.

*Joyfully dances to being a Toreador*

It certainly is easier if you can somehow gain an advantage over the wolf's movements. Celerity obviously puts you ahead of him, as does the tremere blood shield to protect against his attacks. I would gamble the same is true for gangrels and ventrue who use that inmunitywassitsname discipline. It's clearly trouble with the less physical kindred.

Never leave home without some blue blood or elder vitae. Best preventive advise I can give for this part of the game.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 13, 2020, 10:07:09 PM
I know it's very stressful.  Like I said before if I was a smoker, every time I got through this part I would light up a cigarette to calm my nerves.  I hope one day they make a WOD werewolf game, where the player gets to be a werewolf.

Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 14, 2020, 04:04:11 AM
I know it's very stressful.  Like I said before if I was a smoker, every time I got through this part I would light up a cigarette to calm my nerves.  I hope one day they make a WOD werewolf game, where the player gets to be a werewolf.



Awesome.  I did not know there was already one in the making.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 14, 2020, 04:36:09 AM
Awesome.  I did not know there was already one in the making.

We have a discussion in the Off Topic section as well but there's been little to no talk since the developers are keeping updates tighter than a pentagon memo. We do know it's more linear in nature and that the main mechanic involves switching between three forms (man, wolf and werewolf).

So you'll get a chance to chomp and slash away at kindred pretty soon.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 14, 2020, 05:36:14 AM
Awesome.  I did not know there was already one in the making.

We have a discussion in the Off Topic section as well but there's been little to no talk since the developers are keeping updates tighter than a pentagon memo. We do know it's more linear in nature and that the main mechanic involves switching between three forms (man, wolf and werewolf).

So you'll get a chance to chomp and slash away at kindred pretty soon.

That sounds cool.  Can't wait.  I'll check out the off topic section.  Thanks.:)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Barabbah on January 14, 2020, 06:41:17 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/855/208/006.png)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: endthewars on January 14, 2020, 08:08:58 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/855/208/006.png)

It took me a few seconds to realize/process what I was looking at.

Impressive to say the least.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 16, 2020, 07:13:49 AM
Finished my Mlakavian playthrough.  It was fun.  I put two dots in Obfuscate which was enough.  Four dots in Auspex, and four dots in dementation.  My favorite guns were the Spas 15, Colt Anaconda, Desert Eagle, dragon's breath and Flamethrower.  My favorite melee weapons were the fire ax, the katana, and the katana that causes aggravated damage.

I had fun with all three characters I've tried.  Though I still think out of the Tremere, Toreador, and Malkavian.  The Tremere is beastly since Thaumaturgy is so useful.  I  still have yet to try the Toreador's Celerity discipline.  But like I said I had fun with all them.  Trying out their disciplines and finding out which ones are good.  I chose the ending were Lacroix blows himself up, and while my Malk Bottlecap is walking away in his pimp coat and hat, Nines and Skelter arrive and Bottlecap walks right by them.  I assume this is the loner ending?  It ends the same way like the Anarchs with Jack talking to the cabbie (Caine?).

For my next playthrough I don't know whether to play as a Gangrel, Nosferatu, or Ventrue.  I also don't know if I should use the Clant Quest Mod.

There are three areas I dread in the game.  The Warrens when using the Basic patch, the Werewolf, and the Golden Temple.  I dislike doing those.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 16, 2020, 12:05:48 PM
If you want a totally different gameplay, try Nosferatu. You have to play more sneaky and try to stay out of the way of 'normal' people.

Gangrel is really nice too. I personally like that treehugger clan.

I agree about the Werewolf and the Golden Temple. The Warrens without the plus patch are a pain too.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 16, 2020, 02:03:04 PM
For my next playthrough I don't know whether to play as a Gangrel, Nosferatu, or Ventrue.  I also don't know if I should use the Clant Quest Mod.

The problem with playing Nosferatu is that you have almost no way to approach the social avenues, it's a strictly "infiltrator-fighter-shooter" type of character because you won't be able to persuade the majority of people, you cannot seduce anyone and people will already be incredibly biased towards your appearence. It's quite fantastic.

But it will not allow you to have a "social" approach to problems. Enjoy it if you will.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 17, 2020, 07:28:38 AM
If you want a totally different gameplay, try Nosferatu. You have to play more sneaky and try to stay out of the way of 'normal' people.

Gangrel is really nice too. I personally like that treehugger clan.

I agree about the Werewolf and the Golden Temple. The Warrens without the plus patch are a pain too.

I wouldn't mind doing the Warrens or the Golden Temple if killing the enemies granted xp.  But by the time I get to the Golden Temple my vamp is a god.  The enemies sword attacks do little to no damage.  The only enemy that gives me trouble are the guys with the flame crossbows.  One shot takes almost half your health away.  In the Ventrue tower I sneak my way until the Ventrue vamps ambush me.  Their bullets do little to no damage.

I did not know the Gangrel were tree huggers.  I just like that they're loners, so most likely they have no dots in persuasion and seduction.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 17, 2020, 07:30:47 AM
For my next playthrough I don't know whether to play as a Gangrel, Nosferatu, or Ventrue.  I also don't know if I should use the Clant Quest Mod.

The problem with playing Nosferatu is that you have almost no way to approach the social avenues, it's a strictly "infiltrator-fighter-shooter" type of character because you won't be able to persuade the majority of people, you cannot seduce anyone and people will already be incredibly biased towards your appearence. It's quite fantastic.

But it will not allow you to have a "social" approach to problems. Enjoy it if you will.

I will try them for the unique experience.  But I usually prefer to talk my way out of potential combat situations.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 17, 2020, 02:57:13 PM
If you want a totally different gameplay, try Nosferatu. You have to play more sneaky and try to stay out of the way of 'normal' people.

Gangrel is really nice too. I personally like that treehugger clan.

I agree about the Werewolf and the Golden Temple. The Warrens without the plus patch are a pain too.

I wouldn't mind doing the Warrens or the Golden Temple if killing the enemies granted xp.  But by the time I get to the Golden Temple my vamp is a god.  The enemies sword attacks do little to no damage.  The only enemy that gives me trouble are the guys with the flame crossbows.  One shot takes almost half your health away.  In the Ventrue tower I sneak my way until the Ventrue vamps ambush me.  Their bullets do little to no damage.

I did not know the Gangrel were tree huggers.  I just like that they're loners, so most likely they have no dots in persuasion and seduction.

I exaggerated a bit with the Gangrels. But they are often nature loving.
I like playing Gangrels, they have nice disciplines.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 17, 2020, 04:01:24 PM
If you want a totally different gameplay, try Nosferatu. You have to play more sneaky and try to stay out of the way of 'normal' people.

Gangrel is really nice too. I personally like that treehugger clan.

I agree about the Werewolf and the Golden Temple. The Warrens without the plus patch are a pain too.

I wouldn't mind doing the Warrens or the Golden Temple if killing the enemies granted xp.  But by the time I get to the Golden Temple my vamp is a god.  The enemies sword attacks do little to no damage.  The only enemy that gives me trouble are the guys with the flame crossbows.  One shot takes almost half your health away.  In the Ventrue tower I sneak my way until the Ventrue vamps ambush me.  Their bullets do little to no damage.

I did not know the Gangrel were tree huggers.  I just like that they're loners, so most likely they have no dots in persuasion and seduction.

I exaggerated a bit with the Gangrels. But they are often nature loving.
I like playing Gangrels, they have nice disciplines.

Oh I did not know that.  I just knew they choose to live in the wild.  As loners do you think they have any conversational skills?  I'm assuming no.  But since I am still relatively new to the WOD darkness I don't know.  I do know that one of my favorite clans the Tremere are basically slaves to a 3rd generation vampire named Saulot.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 17, 2020, 04:04:25 PM
Oh I did not know that.  I just knew they choose to live in the wild.  As loners do you think they have any conversational skills?  I'm assuming no.  But since I am still relatively new to the WOD darkness I don't know.  I do know that one of my favorite clans the Tremere are basically slaves to a 3rd generation vampire named Saulot.

The Gangrel have the potential though. I rolled a Gangrel and he worked just as well as my Toreador main in the persuasion feat.

About the Tremere, things seem to have changed for them since the fall of the pyramid. We'd have to do more research on that.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 17, 2020, 08:39:05 PM
Oh I did not know that.  I just knew they choose to live in the wild.  As loners do you think they have any conversational skills?  I'm assuming no.  But since I am still relatively new to the WOD darkness I don't know.  I do know that one of my favorite clans the Tremere are basically slaves to a 3rd generation vampire named Saulot.

The Gangrel have the potential though. I rolled a Gangrel and he worked just as well as my Toreador main in the persuasion feat.

About the Tremere, things seem to have changed for them since the fall of the pyramid. We'd have to do more research on that.

About the Gangrel I will try them out then.  About the Tremere.  I had forgotten the pyramid does not exist and that there are many factions of Tremere now.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 17, 2020, 11:52:34 PM
About the Tremere. I had forgotten the pyramid does not exist and that there are many factions of Tremere now.

The Newcomers among them ! At least in Seattle.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 18, 2020, 12:57:23 AM
About the Tremere. I had forgotten the pyramid does not exist and that there are many factions of Tremere now.

The Newcomers among them ! At least in Seattle.

I know I can't wait.  My Thin Blood will definitely side with them.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 18, 2020, 01:33:25 AM
I know I can't wait.  My Thin Blood will definitely side with them.

Nonsense. The Pioneers will rule Seattle again !

(Knowing my luck I'll end up hating them)
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 18, 2020, 08:00:15 AM
You are both wrong, it's either the Nosferatu or the Baron for me ;).

Gangrels can be sociable. Look at Beckett. I mean, he can annoy people as easy as bring them to his side, but that is deliberately on his part.
My Gangrel is very good with persuasion.

Oh and while you asked before: Clan Quest Mod is definitely worth trying out. You have a whole new area and a Sabbat quest line. If you side with Andrei, the whole story changes.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 18, 2020, 11:44:01 AM
Okay so I'll try a persuasive Gangrel.

I will also try the Clan Quest Mod.  I want to join the Sabbat and try the new quests.  The question is:  From which Camarilla clan would a vampire most likely defect to the Sabbat?  I was thinking Tremere, but then I read that the founder of the Tremere experimented on Andrei's clan to obtain immortality.  So Andrei is most likely distrustful of Tremere vamps.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 18, 2020, 11:47:57 AM
Okay so I'll try a persuasive Gangrel.

I will also try the Clan Quest Mod.  I want to join the Sabbat and try the new quests.  The question is:  From which Camarilla clan would a vampire most likely defect to the Sabbat?  I was thinking Tremere, but then I read that the founder of the Tremere experimented on Andrei's clan to obtain immortality.  So Andrei is most likely distrustful of Tremere vamps.

Andrei will accept members from all clans, so you can deflect as a Tremere. I think canonically the Sabbat Tremere are wiped out by the Camarilla part of the clan in that timeline (correct me, if I'm wrong), but that doesn't mean, that the Sabbat can't have the odd Tremere in their ranks.
ANd remember, you are fighting a Tremere right before entering Andreis chamber in the Hallowbrook Hotel, so he obviously trusted that guy enough, to make him his personal body guard (more or less).
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 18, 2020, 01:57:54 PM
You are both wrong, it's either the Nosferatu or the Baron for me ;).

That would be The Unseen. We might find ventrue and toreadors among them for all we know. Why not ?

As for the Baron, he/she seems more of a Therese-Isaac type of kindred to me. Maybe more interested in power than the anarch cause ? Is there even an anarch cause in Seattle ?

ANd remember, you are fighting a Tremere right before entering Andreis chamber in the Hallowbrook Hotel, so he obviously trusted that guy enough, to make him his personal body guard (more or less).

Is that dude a Tremere ? His fire magic seems like it would come from another clan. I just thought they were using a placeholder model for a clan they had no time to create.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: fylimar on January 18, 2020, 02:24:44 PM
You are both wrong, it's either the Nosferatu or the Baron for me ;).

That would be The Unseen. We might find ventrue and toreadors among them for all we know. Why not ?

As for the Baron, he/she seems more of a Therese-Isaac type of kindred to me. Maybe more interested in power than the anarch cause ? Is there even an anarch cause in Seattle ?

ANd remember, you are fighting a Tremere right before entering Andreis chamber in the Hallowbrook Hotel, so he obviously trusted that guy enough, to make him his personal body guard (more or less).

Is that dude a Tremere ? His fire magic seems like it would come from another clan. I just thought they were using a placeholder model for a clan they had no time to create.

I was only joking about the factions in Bloodlines 2. I'm pro anarch and pro Nosferatu and not a huge fan of Torries as you know, but I will pick whichever faction I think is interesting. And since I hopefully will play the game often, I probably will try all factions at some point :)

I always thought, he has to be Tremere. I know, there are other clans, that can do magic, the Tzimisce with their Koldunic sorcery among them, but my gut feeling says, he's Tremere. In the walkthroughs and wikis, he is listed as Tremere antitribu too.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on January 18, 2020, 02:31:02 PM
In the walkthroughs and wikis, he is listed as Tremere antitribu too.

In the map file he is called "Tremere_FireMage".
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 18, 2020, 02:32:29 PM
In the map file he is called "Tremere_FireMage".

I wonder what a "Tremere Water Mage" is then. Hopefully won't find out.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 18, 2020, 04:41:59 PM
It's weird the first time I played with the basic patch, I could have sworn the mage was a clone of the female Tremere model.  But the last two times I played with the plus patch it was male.
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Wesp5 on January 18, 2020, 05:00:28 PM
It's weird the first time I played with the basic patch, I could have sworn the mage was a clone of the female Tremere model.  But the last two times I played with the plus patch it was male.

The plus patch swaps the gender of the Fire Mage so you don't see any clones :)!
Title: Re: Am new here and just beat VTMB for the first time. (Spoilers)
Post by: Talyn82 on January 18, 2020, 07:04:45 PM
It's weird the first time I played with the basic patch, I could have sworn the mage was a clone of the female Tremere model.  But the last two times I played with the plus patch it was male.

The plus patch swaps the gender of the Fire Mage so you don't see any clones :)!

Oh okay.  That's clever.  Never thought about that.
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