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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Vampire JAM  (Read 3142 times)

Offline Vinland

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2021, 03:56:38 am »
Again: we are saying that this kind of "challenge" is not something we like. Pure and simples. And as I said before related to writing competitions with constrains, that usually lead to a shitty product.


Want to make something like that in your company to see what you can acomplish? Sure, can be a good thing to see what can and can't be done in some situations. Do that and relase to the public? Them be prepared (and open) for criticism.

Companies are not involved in this. This game jam is individual fans making fan projects. They're not making a "product" in the sense that you're trying to use the word. You may as well be complaining about fan art or table-top games that use house rules.

Offline Monjh

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2021, 04:05:43 am »
Do you have selective reading or is just ignoring what you don't want? That was an example. Try again, and this time read and pay attention.


And AGAIN:
Do that and relase to the public? Them be prepared (and open) for criticism.
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2021, 04:11:52 am »
Do you have selective reading or is just ignoring what you don't want? That was an example. Try again, and this time read and pay attention.


And AGAIN:
Do that and relase to the public? Them be prepared (and open) for criticism.

You're attempting to criticize games you haven't seen or played. You've decided from the start that harmless fan games are a terrible blight. You've failed to convince me.

You can have gatekeeping for an IP or you can have mainstream success. You cannot have both. Ultimately, this is what mainstream success looks like. The IP is popular enough to have diverse interest from companies and fans alike. The Witcher has a card game. Super Mario's face is all over everything you can possibly merchandise. There's a full-conversion Crusader Kings III mod that turns the entire game into Vampire: The Masquerade.

The silly purity you're looking for is what made WOD more-or-less a dead brand for over a decade. Paradox saved this thing from oblivion. There's been more interest in WOD over the past 4 years than all other years combined. The IP is pretty much objectively in the healthiest place it has ever been in. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on everything here.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 04:25:45 am by Vinland »

Offline Monjh

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2021, 04:24:36 am »
That's the thing: I don't want to convice you of anything. I'm stating my point that making a game with that kind of constrains is not something that I like and is not something that I would consume (as in, not something I would play even if it is free). You can like whatever and so can I.


What I am doing is letting you know that this is my position, my opinion, my take. What I am doing is refusing to let you distorce my argument and do a selective reading of what is being written here. That is what I am doing.


I take we understand each other now?
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2021, 04:27:40 am »
That's the thing: I don't want to convice you of anything. I'm stating my point that making a game with that kind of constrains is not something that I like and is not something that I would consume (as in, not something I would play even if it is free). You can like whatever and so can I.


What I am doing is letting you know that this is my position, my opinion, my take. What I am doing is refusing to let you distorce my argument and do a selective reading of what is being written here. That is what I am doing.


I take we understand each other now?

Your opinion is that games you haven't seen or played are bad because you said so. By all means, stay with this narrative if you want to. It's a really bad argument, though, and it does not stand up to scrutiny. Your views aren't ever based on evidence.

Offline Monjh

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2021, 04:34:18 am »
I still can't tell if it is selective reading or if you are refusing to understand that NO ONE is obligated to like something that is made with some characteristics that they don't like. I hope it is the former, otherwise you have a very narrow view of the world.
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2021, 04:38:37 am »
I still can't tell if it is selective reading or if you are refusing to understand that NO ONE is obligated to like something that is made with some characteristics that they don't like. I hope it is the former, otherwise you have a very narrow view of the world.

You're not obligated to like anything. However, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that you are attempting to assert your right to condemn games you know nothing about while simultaneously asserting that your opinions are immune to criticism. I don't think you've quite thought this all of the way through.  :smile:

Offline Monjh

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2021, 04:41:15 am »
Nah, I did say I don't like that kind of constrains with something I consume. You, on the other hand, seems to only pick what you want, thinking this is some form of "competitive argument" and that you need to win (whatever that entails).


No need to worry with me, I'm good. =)
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2021, 04:45:50 am »
Nah, I did say I don't like that kind of constrains with something I consume. You, on the other hand, seems to only pick what you want, thinking this is some form of "competitive argument" and that you need to win (whatever that entails).


No need to worry with me, I'm good. =)

You previously lost your cool, directly insulted me with a bunch of angry posts accusing me of being incapable of reading, and now you're posting this. Oh, okay then... lol

I didn't say anything about "competitive argument" or the "need to win." This sounds like some projection. In any case, you've failed to address the fact that you argued that you're going to criticize games you haven't played while also asserting that your opinions are immune criticism. Like this post here isn't even related to anything we were talking about. It's just 100% an attack on me. De-escalate, my dude.

Offline Monjh

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2021, 04:59:01 am »
You previously lost your cool, directly insulted me with a bunch of angry posts accusing me of being incapable of reading, and now you're posting this. Oh, okay then... lol


Please, dude, go and check why. You acted like an ass because I don't agree with you that a JAM is something good and got a reaction. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend someone saying "but it is a cool concept, you should check it!" No, I don't have to do that. If I don't like elements of a given media, I don't have to consume it. Can you understand that? Or I need to spell like you were five?

Quote
I didn't say anything about "competitive argument" or the "need to win."

Your words did.


Quote
This sounds like some projection.

A projection would be if I had done what you did and posted something like "no, man, JAM is not good and you need to change your mind" (like you did and, I bet, you will do again).

[quote
]
In any case, you've failed to address the fact that you argued that you're going to criticize games you haven't played while also asserting that your opinions are immune criticism.
[/quote]

No, you have failed to understand that I won't consume something that I don't like. Simple as that. If you don't like milk-based beverages, saying that you need to try out this new cappuccino "just because" is not a point, is failing to understand that people consume what they like and avoid what they don't like. I don't have to read every single Dam Brown (or whatever it is spelled) book to say that I don't like his style. Have read the first chapter of The DaVince Code, got the impression that a colonoscopy would be more pleasant, put the book aside, and I say that I don't like him as an author.


Quote

Like this post here isn't even related to anything we were talking about. It's just 100% an attack on me. De-escalate, my dude.


Yeah, right. Woo thee. Want me to stop? Stop with the selective reading. Try to understand we have different takes on what we like and what we are willing to try. Unless you are a robot, you also have media you won't consume because it don't fit your taste.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 05:00:46 am by Monjh »
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2021, 05:05:58 am »
You previously lost your cool, directly insulted me with a bunch of angry posts accusing me of being incapable of reading, and now you're posting this. Oh, okay then... lol


Please, dude, go and check why. You acted like an ass because I don't agree with you that a JAM is something good and got a reaction. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend someone saying "but it is a cool concept, you should check it!" No, I don't have to do that. If I don't like elements of a given media, I don't have to consume it. Can you understand that? Or I need to spell like you were five?

Quote
I didn't say anything about "competitive argument" or the "need to win."

Your words did.


Quote
This sounds like some projection.

A projection would be if I had done what you did and posted something like "no, man, JAM is not good and you need to change your mind" (like you did and, I bet, you will do again).

[quote
]
In any case, you've failed to address the fact that you argued that you're going to criticize games you haven't played while also asserting that your opinions are immune criticism.
[/quote]

No, you have failed to understand that I won't consume something that I don't like. Simple as that. If you don't like milk-based beverages, saying that you need to try out this new cappuccino "just because" is not a point, is failing to understand that people consume what they like and avoid what they don't like. I don't have to read every single Dam Brown (or whatever it is spelled) book to say that I don't like his style. Have read the first chapter of The DaVince Code, got the impression that a colonoscopy would be more pleasant, put the book aside, and I say that I don't like him as an author.


Quote

Like this post here isn't even related to anything we were talking about. It's just 100% an attack on me. De-escalate, my dude.


Yeah, right. Woo thee. Want me to stop? Stop with the selective reading. Try to understand we have different takes on what we like and what we are willing to try. Unless you are a robot, you also have media you won't consume because it don't fit your taste.

There's no valid excuse for petty personal attacks. If you can't form an argument without personal attacks, then your argument is simply bad.

Your entire argument past the personal attacks are just logical fallacies. It's the same logic used by people who refuse to get vaccinated, even. You keep trying to assert that you're just defending the right to be arbitrary but your claims are in direct contradiction with evidence. I don't think I've ever seen you make an actual evidence based post on this board. It's just hysteria.

You started this conversation with me to tell me that you hate games you know absolutely nothing about and lashed out at me for questioning you. Don't start conversations with me, if you're not actually interested in good faith dialogue.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 05:10:53 am by Vinland »

Offline Monjh

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2021, 05:13:05 am »
There's no valid excuse for petty personal attacks. If you can't form an argument without personal attacks, then your argument is simply bad.

Your entire argument past the personal attacks are just logical fallacies. It's the same logic used by people who refuse to get vaccinated, even. You keep trying to assert that you're just defending the right to be arbitrary but your claims are in direct contradiction with evidence. I don't think I've ever seen you make an actual evidence based post on this board. It's just hysteria.


Are you even reading before posting? I will write one more time, to see if you understand: I WON'T CONSUME MEDIA THAT HAVE CHARACTERISTICS I DON'T LIKE. YOU CAN HAVE YOUR TASTES, AND SO CAN I. WE DON'T HAVE TO AGREE, BUT IF YOU USE SELECTIVE READING, YOU WILL GET A KICK.


Is that clear?


I won't even try to educate you on the elements of argumentation, because apparently having diferent tastes makes your point invalid.
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2021, 05:16:18 am »
There's no valid excuse for petty personal attacks. If you can't form an argument without personal attacks, then your argument is simply bad.

Your entire argument past the personal attacks are just logical fallacies. It's the same logic used by people who refuse to get vaccinated, even. You keep trying to assert that you're just defending the right to be arbitrary but your claims are in direct contradiction with evidence. I don't think I've ever seen you make an actual evidence based post on this board. It's just hysteria.


Are you even reading before posting? I will write one more time, to see if you understand: I WON'T CONSUME MEDIA THAT HAVE CHARACTERISTICS I DON'T LIKE. YOU CAN HAVE YOUR TASTES, AND SO CAN I. WE DON'T HAVE TO AGREE, BUT IF YOU USE SELECTIVE READING, YOU WILL GET A KICK.


Is that clear?


I won't even try to educate you on the elements of argumentation, because apparently having diferent tastes makes your point invalid.

You can scream and shout at me all you want. No one has told you to like or play anything. Your posts are simply filled with factual inaccuracies. From the very beginning you talked about a 6 month development cycle which means you didn't even read/watch the announcement which clearly said it was 1 month. lol

Again, just a straight-up, hysteria-fuelled, knee-jerk reaction that is entirely contrary to all evidence. I think we're done here.

Offline Monjh

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2021, 05:18:30 am »
Yap, you really have a total incapacity to understand what people write.


I give up. You win. Some people are just to dense to understand arguments.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 09:43:50 am by Wesp5 »
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Vampire JAM
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2021, 09:46:30 am »
Calm down people! Everybody can have his own opinion and as I stated from my modding experience, time restrains like these are not beneficial to game development, so I can understand that some people won't even look at the results. I will in case they are free ;), just out of curiousity! I played Outstars mini adventure and it was quite sweet. Still people are expecting news about Bloodlines 2 right now, at least who the developer is, and announcing stuff like this instead gives me the feeling that Paradox doesn't reall know what they are doing...

 

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