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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 => Bloodlines 2 General discussion => Topic started by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 17, 2019, 09:35:53 am

Title: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 17, 2019, 09:35:53 am
Maybe you already have heard about the story that Paradox (and others) remove Bloodlines 2 temporary from the Epic Store.
but here two links for more details
https://www.pcgamesn.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2/epic-store-sale

https://kotaku.com/publishers-pull-their-games-from-epics-store-during-its-1834828248

This so stupid from Epic. Who makes sales on games when are not released?
They clearly want to hurt to other Stores like Steam (no surprise), GOG and even Paradox own stop Paradox Plaza.

So if someone still worries about that Bloodlines 2 become an Epic Store (and Paradox Plaza) exclusive well after today
it seems more likely that the hell freezes.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: mdqp on May 17, 2019, 09:45:06 am
Well, Epic came into the market with the delicate touch of an elephant with rabies. I can understand SOME of the tactics, but their approach has been very crass in most areas. Maybe in a few years the store will be good, but they really didn't win themselves any favour with the audience so far.

I tend to buy from GOG first whenever possible anyway, so I guess I am a rare breed in the market, judging by the market shares.

Some games that were console exclusives are coming to PC thanks to them, so I guess I can appreciate that, at least.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 17, 2019, 11:52:11 am
Maybe you already have heard about the story that Paradox (and others) remove Bloodlines 2 temporary from the Epic Store.
but here two links for more details
https://www.pcgamesn.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2/epic-store-sale

https://kotaku.com/publishers-pull-their-games-from-epics-store-during-its-1834828248

This so stupid from Epic. Who makes sales on games when are not released?
They clearly want to hurt to other Stores like Steam (no surprise), GOG and even Paradox own stop Paradox Plaza.

So if someone still worries about that Bloodlines 2 become an Epic Store (and Paradox Plaza) exclusive well after today
it seems more likely that the hell freezes.

I sincerely hope that the Epic. Games Store fails utterly. It's store and features are miles behind Steam, and exclusivity deals is how they are getting ahead. Holding products ransom for 6 months to a year on a platform with shit features compared to the standard quo is terribly annoying for consumers.

For my friends and I, we're getting Borderlands 3 on Steam next year and passing on the September 2019 EGS release. I was also interested in getting The Outer World's at launch, but now that it's on EGS only, I will be waiting until it's on Steam (I think it's one-year exclusivity).

And of course I ain't paying more than 75% for Borderlands 3 on Steam since it's no longer close to being a new game. I hope Randy Pitchford's ass hurts after this. Whether he truly had a hand in it or not isn't very relevant any more as he has taken to social media arguing with people about how wonderful this EGS situation is for gamers.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Barabbah on May 17, 2019, 03:06:06 pm
Well, Epic came into the market with the delicate touch of an elephant with rabies.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1kxup2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on May 17, 2019, 06:15:40 pm
I sincerely hope that the Epic Games Store fails utterly. It's store and features are miles behind Steam, and exclusivity deals is how they are getting ahead. Holding products ransom for 6 months to a year on a platform with shit features compared to the standard quo is terribly annoying for consumers.

While I agree that for now Epic behaves rather clumsily, I hope they succeed and kill Steam off or at least destroy its monopoly! Maybe most of you don't remember, but Steam started off by taking all Counter-Strike players ransom and while they have many features now, they didn't have at the start either, and they still don't care one bit about what they sell, like an unpatched Bloodlines which will not run without my patch. Besides that the store is bloated with rubbush since you can basically sell everything there with Steam Direct provided you pay Valve money!

Still I agree that GOG is the best shop out there right now...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 17, 2019, 06:18:31 pm
I sincerely hope that the Epic Games Store fails utterly. It's store and features are miles behind Steam, and exclusivity deals is how they are getting ahead. Holding products ransom for 6 months to a year on a platform with shit features compared to the standard quo is terribly annoying for consumers.

While I agree that for now Epic behaves rather clumsily, I hope they succeed and kill Steam off or at least destroy its monopoly! Maybe most of you don't remember, but Steam started off by taking all Counter-Strike players ransom and while they have many features now, they didn't have at the start either, and they still don't care one bit about what they sell, like an unpatched Bloodlines which will not run without my patch. Besides that the store is bloated with rubbush since you can basically sell everything there with Steam Direct provided you pay Valve money! Still I agree that GOG is the best shop out there right now...

While I agree that Steam needs competition, we don't need a Steam competitor that behaves like this.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on May 17, 2019, 07:00:29 pm
While I agree that Steam needs competition, we don't need a Steam competitor that behaves like this.

Yeah, it's astounding that such an old-time player like Epic behaves so clumsely. But then I can imagine that they never really planned a store until the Fortnite mania happened and they noticed that they can use it the same way that Valve used Counter-Strike to get their foot in the door while the hype lasts. So they rushed the store and everything else around it...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: MooCHa on May 17, 2019, 07:59:28 pm
Epic can keep their store. I'm not moving from Steam. Why do they need competition. I buy games. They keep them for me :)

I had to click on my Epic Games short cut on my desktop to remember who they were LoL.
Yes, I'm being facetious haha
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: mdqp on May 17, 2019, 08:33:18 pm
Yeah, it's astounding that such an old-time player like Epic behaves so clumsely. But then I can imagine that they never really planned a store until the Fortnite mania happened and they noticed that they can use it the same way that Valve used Counter-Strike to get their foot in the door while the hype lasts. So they rushed the store and everything else around it...

To be honest, I don't need someone competing with Steam. I mean, the kind of competition that would exist between Steam and Epic could only (if we are optimistic) mean cheaper prices (and if we are really hopeful, more console exclusives coming to PC), but the reality is that games on PC are already pretty cheap, games cost the same on the epic store, and we are getting timed exclusives, games removed from stores they were supposed to hit before, etc. I own over a 1000 games on Steam, but I consider almost all of them completely disposable. Why? I paid the overwhelming majority of them something like 2 dollars or less, thanks to humble bundle and similar sales. I buy on GOG whenever I can, while I consider most of my games on Steam cheap rental (I buy pretty cheap on GOG too, however). Very rarely there are exceptions to these rules (I pre-ordered RE2 because I am a fan of the original trilogy, and I found a store that gave me a 20% off, allowing me to buy the deluxe version for less than the normal version, and only after playing the demo).

I don't think the current revenue split for devs will last for long (as in, I think Epic have almost no margin to run the store now, and they are just doing it until they gain enough of a market share), so that's not a valid argument to me (as much as I'd be happy for the industry to have better margins, as then maybe they wouldn't be chasing safe bets and huge budgets in the AAA sector all the time).

What could Epic possibly bring to the table? I'll give them a fair chance (I installed the launcher to download one their free games, because I was interested in it), but so far, they discouraged me from buying anything there. I really wish there was a big store that could spread the DRM-free mantra and perhaps a better focus in the industry toward easier preservation for games, but those aren't a priority for anyone.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 17, 2019, 09:40:05 pm
Epic can keep their store. I'm not moving from Steam. Why do they need competition. I buy games. They keep them for me :)

I had to click on my Epic Games short cut on my desktop to remember who they were LoL.
Yes, I'm being facetious haha

The really weird thing is that despite Steam "practically" having no competition, it hasn't been a monolith of overcharging consumers; quite the opposite, compared to other services, physical media, and console games. Just like mdqp, I too own more than 1,000 games on Steam, and quite a few were gotten outrageously cheap. Oh, and just like him, I own RE2, though I bought a Steam key of it last night for half off from greenmangaming.com It's installing now, yay~

Ahem. But yeah, Steam is really billing devs/producers bigtime, whereas Epic is giving the devs/producers insanely good deals. Steam gives amazing services and prices to consumers, whereas Epic is helping the opposite side of the transaction.

As a consumer, however, I don't care how turned on Randy Pitchford gets by the dev/producer side of things paying well if the consumer side is absolute garbage on Epic (which it is, presently). Epic needs to do something to win over gamers if it hopes to compete with Steam. They sure as hell aren't going to win me over by holding games I want hostage for 6 months to a year. I can wait.

Granted, if Bloodlines 2 had been on EGS only, I would've sold out like a total whore and gone with EGS. Thank goodness I can keep my quasi-dignity. :D
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: MooCHa on May 17, 2019, 10:45:21 pm
Steam doesn't Overcharge at all and look what on the horizon next month. The Summer sale :) The amount of games I've got cheap is awesome over the years. Playing them is a different matter lol.

Bloodlines 2 is a play on the day of release. Not many games get that stature with myself. I won't build it up though.

Epic has their current Dev thing going on because that is how they can compete. Now when they get a decent market share. They won't be as good a prospect. Its a lure.

Compare their 5% taken from a Dev's gross earnings of a game from the offset with their engine  but Unity takes only after the first $100,000 you've earned in revenue. I really have no time for Epic. I really don't care if they exist.

I will be getting RE2. Loved it on Playstation. Rebecca Chambers pic anyone? ;)
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 18, 2019, 03:17:10 am
Epic can keep their store. I'm not moving from Steam. Why do they need competition. I buy games. They keep them for me :)

Clearly you're not a Telltale's Walking Dead fan :'( ...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 18, 2019, 03:26:33 am
Epic can keep their store. I'm not moving from Steam. Why do they need competition. I buy games. They keep them for me :)

Clearly you're not a Telltale's Walking Dead fan :'( ...

What's the correlation?
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 18, 2019, 04:33:31 am
Epic can keep their store. I'm not moving from Steam. Why do they need competition. I buy games. They keep them for me :)

Clearly you're not a Telltale's Walking Dead fan :'( ...

What's the correlation?

The final episode of Telltale's Walking Dead is only available on the Epic Store.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 18, 2019, 04:49:37 am
Epic can keep their store. I'm not moving from Steam. Why do they need competition. I buy games. They keep them for me :)

Clearly you're not a Telltale's Walking Dead fan :'( ...

What's the correlation?

The final episode of Telltale's Walking Dead is only available on the Epic Store.

Permanently or timed exclusivity? And I don't appreciate EGS holding shit I want to play hostage, so I'm doing what I can to avoid giving those douchebags money.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: mdqp on May 18, 2019, 07:53:13 am
Steam doesn't Overcharge at all and look what on the horizon next month. The Summer sale :) The amount of games I've got cheap is awesome over the years. Playing them is a different matter lol.

Bloodlines 2 is a play on the day of release. Not many games get that stature with myself. I won't build it up though.

Epic has their current Dev thing going on because that is how they can compete. Now when they get a decent market share. They won't be as good a prospect. Its a lure.

Compare their 5% taken from a Dev's gross earnings of a game from the offset with their engine  but Unity takes only after the first $100,000 you've earned in revenue. I really have no time for Epic. I really don't care if they exist.

I will be getting RE2. Loved it on Playstation. Rebecca Chambers pic anyone? ;)

Yeah, Steam has a good thing going. I am happy for some competition, mainly because it helps ensuring things remain the same (basically, Steam knows it's better not to slip up, or they would then lose market shares) but Epic has been a disaster on all fronts from the messaging (saying that devs will decide this "war", not the consumers), to the various negative effects their kind of competition brought.

Yeah, I really think I'll end up buying Bloodlines 2 at launch too, barring anything that would really destroy my expectations (like, I don't know, an awful demo or some gameplay footage showing subpar writing and mechanics).

RE2 proved to be a good game, but a word of warning. If you played the demo, the difficulty there seems adjusted (or I was disgustingly lucky when I tried it), and most importantly, headshots with the gun seem a bit useless (kneecapping them is a lot better, unless you have a weapon that can blow their head in one good headshot). I think they did not nail the combat with the zombies, in my opinion. I wish they had kept the same "zombies are weak, but fearsome in numbers or in tight spaces" approach that kind of transpires from old RE, but here zombies are tanks until you get "blow your head off" technology.

Also, a tip for lickers (I'll put it under spoilers, in case you'd rather discover this kind of stuff yourself).

They are blind like in the old game, but they behave in a way you wouldn't expect (basically, if they hear your noise as you walk, you need to keep walking, stopping will actually make sure they find you).
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 18, 2019, 01:46:53 pm
Steam doesn't Overcharge at all and look what on the horizon next month. The Summer sale :) The amount of games I've got cheap is awesome over the years. Playing them is a different matter lol.

Bloodlines 2 is a play on the day of release. Not many games get that stature with myself. I won't build it up though.

Epic has their current Dev thing going on because that is how they can compete. Now when they get a decent market share. They won't be as good a prospect. Its a lure.

Compare their 5% taken from a Dev's gross earnings of a game from the offset with their engine  but Unity takes only after the first $100,000 you've earned in revenue. I really have no time for Epic. I really don't care if they exist.

I will be getting RE2. Loved it on Playstation. Rebecca Chambers pic anyone? ;)

Yeah, Steam has a good thing going. I am happy for some competition, mainly because it helps ensuring things remain the same (basically, Steam knows it's better not to slip up, or they would then lose market shares) but Epic has been a disaster on all fronts from the messaging (saying that devs will decide this "war", not the consumers), to the various negative effects their kind of competition brought.

Yeah, I really think I'll end up buying Bloodlines 2 at launch too, barring anything that would really destroy my expectations (like, I don't know, an awful demo or some gameplay footage showing subpar writing and mechanics).

RE2 proved to be a good game, but a word of warning. If you played the demo, the difficulty there seems adjusted (or I was disgustingly lucky when I tried it), and most importantly, headshots with the gun seem a bit useless (kneecapping them is a lot better, unless you have a weapon that can blow their head in one good headshot). I think they did not nail the combat with the zombies, in my opinion. I wish they had kept the same "zombies are weak, but fearsome in numbers or in tight spaces" approach that kind of transpires from old RE, but here zombies are tanks until you get "blow your head off" technology.

Also, a tip for lickers (I'll put it under spoilers, in case you'd rather discover this kind of stuff yourself).

They are blind like in the old game, but they behave in a way you wouldn't expect (basically, if they hear your noise as you walk, you need to keep walking, stopping will actually make sure they find you).

Thanks. Except for ONE that auto-aggros which I encountered last night. Oh, and I am vigorously regretting not boarding up the west hall windows, lol. I dread when I need to go back there with the Club Key...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: mdqp on May 18, 2019, 04:16:27 pm
Thanks. Except for ONE that auto-aggros which I encountered last night. Oh, and I am vigorously regretting not boarding up the west hall windows, lol. I dread when I need to go back there with the Club Key...

Oh yeah, crap! Forgot about that one. You mean the one right after the puzzle in the C4 room, right? I vastly prefer old RE2, but after the initial disappointment in certain elements, I found this new one to be fun enough. Really nice visuals, and good atmosphere, especially if you use the old music pack. Gameplay is more of a mixed bag. Anyway, this is probably going way off-topic, so I'll stop here.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 18, 2019, 06:26:28 pm
Thanks. Except for ONE that auto-aggros which I encountered last night. Oh, and I am vigorously regretting not boarding up the west hall windows, lol. I dread when I need to go back there with the Club Key...

Oh yeah, crap! Forgot about that one. You mean the one right after the puzzle in the C4 room, right? I vastly prefer old RE2, but after the initial disappointment in certain elements, I found this new one to be fun enough. Really nice visuals, and good atmosphere, especially if you use the old music pack. Gameplay is more of a mixed bag. Anyway, this is probably going way off-topic, so I'll stop here.

Heh, yes, that's the one. I'm an ammo miser, though, and my health was already middling, so I just let the Licker slash me and I bolted out of the room and used a spray to heal to full once I was out in the library. Based on the map, I will NEVER have to return to that room, so I think I came out ahead. I'm stockpiling shotty ammo like crazy (haven't fired a shot yet).

I don't remember the original music, so I can't be disappointed! :D  That said, any RE safe room music puts a smile on my face, both for gameplay reasons and musical appreciation.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: MooCHa on May 18, 2019, 09:17:14 pm
Epic can keep their store. I'm not moving from Steam. Why do they need competition. I buy games. They keep them for me :)

Clearly you're not a Telltale's Walking Dead fan :'( ...

I enjoyed the first installment, but I rarely play games nowadays. It was on my lads Steam install years back.. I got Doom, Bioshock infamite and allsorts to finish that I've started.

I'm kind of all bored to shreds of Walking dead. This week on same shit, New season on TV did it. It won't affect me as no plans to play it plus not impressed by it being Epic only.


Steam doesn't Overcharge at all and look what on the horizon next month. The Summer sale :) The amount of games I've got cheap is awesome over the years. Playing them is a different matter lol.

Bloodlines 2 is a play on the day of release. Not many games get that stature with myself. I won't build it up though.

Epic has their current Dev thing going on because that is how they can compete. Now when they get a decent market share. They won't be as good a prospect. Its a lure.

Compare their 5% taken from a Dev's gross earnings of a game from the offset with their engine  but Unity takes only after the first $100,000 you've earned in revenue. I really have no time for Epic. I really don't care if they exist.

I will be getting RE2. Loved it on Playstation. Rebecca Chambers pic anyone? ;)

Yeah, Steam has a good thing going. I am happy for some competition, mainly because it helps ensuring things remain the same (basically, Steam knows it's better not to slip up, or they would then lose market shares) but Epic has been a disaster on all fronts from the messaging (saying that devs will decide this "war", not the consumers), to the various negative effects their kind of competition brought.

Yeah, I really think I'll end up buying Bloodlines 2 at launch too, barring anything that would really destroy my expectations (like, I don't know, an awful demo or some gameplay footage showing subpar writing and mechanics).

RE2 proved to be a good game, but a word of warning. If you played the demo, the difficulty there seems adjusted (or I was disgustingly lucky when I tried it), and most importantly, headshots with the gun seem a bit useless (kneecapping them is a lot better, unless you have a weapon that can blow their head in one good headshot). I think they did not nail the combat with the zombies, in my opinion. I wish they had kept the same "zombies are weak, but fearsome in numbers or in tight spaces" approach that kind of transpires from old RE, but here zombies are tanks until you get "blow your head off" technology.

Also, a tip for lickers (I'll put it under spoilers, in case you'd rather discover this kind of stuff yourself).


It isn't like Steam don't have competion as it is. Epic won't be changing anything to be fair.

I haven't played the Demo as I'll wait a bit to buy it. I'm sure it will only sit dorment like all the other games I fail to play. I didn't avoid the spoiler, But all good :)

I'm waiting for Bloodlines 2 at launch. I may wait until even after the fact. I need more info at the moment.

Oh here's the safe zone music from the oldie

Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 18, 2019, 10:04:19 pm
I sincerely hope that the Epic Games Store fails utterly. It's store and features are miles behind Steam, and exclusivity deals is how they are getting ahead. Holding products ransom for 6 months to a year on a platform with shit features compared to the standard quo is terribly annoying for consumers.

While I agree that for now Epic behaves rather clumsily, I hope they succeed and kill Steam off

I may not have over 1000 games on Steam like mdqp, but I do have 489 games and 901 DLCs on Steam.  If they failed, I would be out the vast majority of my game library and out thousands of dollars.  Some of those games can't be found anywhere anymore, so that would be a total loss.  I sure as heck hope they don't get killed off.  Plus I love the platform. 

Epic can keep their store. I'm not moving from Steam. Why do they need competition. I buy games. They keep them for me :)

Clearly you're not a Telltale's Walking Dead fan :'( ...

What's the correlation?

The final episode of Telltale's Walking Dead is only available on the Epic Store.

It appears its going to be available on Steam to Season Pass purchasers.  So if people already have it on Steam, supposedly they won't have to repurchase it all on the Epic Store.  Epic is pissing me off more and more.  I have Seasons 1 and 2 on Steam but I was waiting a bit to get the New Frontier.  But its not available to me for purchase even though I have the first 2 seasons.  I am NOT going to go over to Epic to get it or the final season.  So I guess I will never get to finish it.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on May 18, 2019, 10:59:28 pm
I may not have over 1000 games on Steam like Moocha, but I do have 489 games and 901 DLCs on Steam.  If they failed, I would be out the vast majority of my game library and out thousands of dollars.

That's the main Steam problem right there, it's not really a store like Amazon, rather a service like Netflix, where you rent your games and believe you have bought them which you haven't. I don't know if the Epic Store is different, but GOG surely is, so this is the only real game store around!
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: MooCHa on May 18, 2019, 11:23:41 pm
You got mixed up with me and DarkProphet.  It doesn't change the points being made.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 18, 2019, 11:47:14 pm
I may not have over 1000 games on Steam like Moocha, but I do have 489 games and 901 DLCs on Steam.  If they failed, I would be out the vast majority of my game library and out thousands of dollars.

That's the main Steam problem right there, it's not really a store like Amazon, rather a service like Netflix, where you rent your games and believe you have bought them which you haven't. I don't know if the Epic Store is different, but GOG surely is, so this is the only real game store around!

Supposedly they will create a patch that will allow us to play the games even if they go out of business.  You can create downloaded backups but I don't have room to keep copies of all of my Steam games or all of my GOG games for that matter.  The fact that these services keep copies of my games for me to download whenever I want to play them is a huge help to me. 

You got mixed up with me and DarkProphet.  It doesn't change the points being made.

Woops!  Sorry! And upon looking back it was actually mdqp.  I will edit my post.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 18, 2019, 11:48:50 pm
I sincerely hope that the Epic Games Store fails utterly. It's store and features are miles behind Steam, and exclusivity deals is how they are getting ahead. Holding products ransom for 6 months to a year on a platform with shit features compared to the standard quo is terribly annoying for consumers.

While I agree that for now Epic behaves rather clumsily, I hope they succeed and kill Steam off

I may not have over 1000 games on Steam like Moocha, but I do have 489 games and 901 DLCs on Steam.  If they failed, I would be out the vast majority of my game library and out thousands of dollars.  Some of those games can't be found anywhere anymore, so that would be a total loss.  I sure as heck hope they don't get killed off.  Plus I love the platform. 

I'm with Zephyr on this one. I'll cut a bitch if I stand to lose muh Steam.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 03:18:09 am
I may not have over 1000 games on Steam like mdqp, but I do have 489 games and 901 DLCs on Steam.  If they failed, I would be out the vast majority of my game library and out thousands of dollars.  Some of those games can't be found anywhere anymore, so that would be a total loss.  I sure as heck hope they don't get killed off.  Plus I love the platform.

I'm not sure it works that way. Maybe it does, but it sounds crazy.

I mean, if Gamestop fails then you don't lose your physical copy just because you bought it there.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 19, 2019, 03:57:49 am
I may not have over 1000 games on Steam like mdqp, but I do have 489 games and 901 DLCs on Steam.  If they failed, I would be out the vast majority of my game library and out thousands of dollars.  Some of those games can't be found anywhere anymore, so that would be a total loss.  I sure as heck hope they don't get killed off.  Plus I love the platform.

I'm not sure it works that way. Maybe it does, but it sounds crazy.

I mean, if Gamestop fails then you don't lose your physical copy just because you bought it there.

I don't keep backups of all of those games as I don't have enough room for it.  I would have to buy several external drives and spend an extremely great deal of time downloading them all to create the backups.  So if Steam fails I will lose the vast majority of my steam games.  I suppose I could buy a couple external drives or several burnable DVDs and make backups of my all time favorites.  But I hope that type of thing won't be necessary. 
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 04:21:20 am
I may not have over 1000 games on Steam like mdqp, but I do have 489 games and 901 DLCs on Steam.  If they failed, I would be out the vast majority of my game library and out thousands of dollars.  Some of those games can't be found anywhere anymore, so that would be a total loss.  I sure as heck hope they don't get killed off.  Plus I love the platform.

I'm not sure it works that way. Maybe it does, but it sounds crazy.

I mean, if Gamestop fails then you don't lose your physical copy just because you bought it there.

Steam games are digital as opposed to discs. GameStop games are physical discs you bought at the store. If Steam were to go bankrupt and no one bought them and kept the service going, all games purchased would be gone...unless you download and backup copies of every game (or at least the ones you care about) that you own, like what Zephyr is describing...which would really suck ass.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 04:24:00 am
Steam games are digital as opposed to discs. GameStop games are physical discs you bought at the store. If Steam were to go bankrupt and no one bought them and kept the service going, all games purchased would be gone...unless you download and backup copies of every game (or at least the ones you care about) that you own, like what Zephyr is describing...which would really suck ass.

I don't know, maybe it would work that way but it's a bit ludicrous. Those games are ours, or at least the right to play them since we never really rented them.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 04:31:21 am
Steam games are digital as opposed to discs. GameStop games are physical discs you bought at the store. If Steam were to go bankrupt and no one bought them and kept the service going, all games purchased would be gone...unless you download and backup copies of every game (or at least the ones you care about) that you own, like what Zephyr is describing...which would really suck ass.

I don't know, maybe it would work that way but it's a bit ludicrous. Those games are ours, or at least the right to play them since we never really rented them.

If Steam goes bankrupt and isn't purchased, who will pay to keep the servers running that hold the games for download? Electric bill, replacing parts, renting the property/land that the servers are kept on, etc.? All these things have costs. If Steam has no more money and no one new took ownership of the company, your games would be gone for good except what's already on your computer and what you backed up.

And this incentivizes other companies to NOT save them if they're about to keep over, too. Otherwise, your game library might be rescued and you would have no reason to RE-PURCHASE the games that you lost which meant a lot to you (Bloodlines 1, Mass Effect 2, whatever else...).
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 19, 2019, 04:33:04 am
...which would really suck ass.

Agreed, especially since I have always sucked at keeping my retail game copies anyway.  Its been years since I have busted out a retail copy of a game and installed it directly from disk.  Most of my retail game copies, PC Games AND console games (as well as the consoles themselves) and several TV show seasons on DVD were stolen from me by a certain person who is no longer in my life so they could pawn them for money.  I solely rely on digital copies nowadays with the exception of a small handful of those games I made personal backups of as ISO rips.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 04:52:33 am
...which would really suck ass.

Agreed, especially since I have always sucked at keeping my retail game copies anyway.  Its been years since I have busted out a retail copy of a game and installed it directly from disk.  Most of my retail game copies, PC Games AND console games (as well as the consoles themselves) and several TV show seasons on DVD were stolen from me by a certain person who is no longer in my life so they could pawn them for money.  I solely rely on digital copies nowadays with the exception of a small handful of those games I made personal backups of as ISO rips.

I have none of mine backed up. Bloodlines is the only physical copy of a game that I have that I care about. Well, that and KotOR, I suppose.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 19, 2019, 06:11:58 am
...which would really suck ass.

Agreed, especially since I have always sucked at keeping my retail game copies anyway.  Its been years since I have busted out a retail copy of a game and installed it directly from disk.  Most of my retail game copies, PC Games AND console games (as well as the consoles themselves) and several TV show seasons on DVD were stolen from me by a certain person who is no longer in my life so they could pawn them for money.  I solely rely on digital copies nowadays with the exception of a small handful of those games I made personal backups of as ISO rips.

I have none of mine backed up. Bloodlines is the only physical copy of a game that I have that I care about. Well, that and KotOR, I suppose.

I wish I still had my physical copy of bloodlines with no patches added whatsoever.  I suppose eventually I can get a copy for a somewhat reasonable price from Ebay but its hard for me to totally justify it right now with having it both on Steam and GOG.com. 
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: mdqp on May 19, 2019, 08:13:01 am
Heh, yes, that's the one. I'm an ammo miser, though, and my health was already middling, so I just let the Licker slash me and I bolted out of the room and used a spray to heal to full once I was out in the library. Based on the map, I will NEVER have to return to that room, so I think I came out ahead. I'm stockpiling shotty ammo like crazy (haven't fired a shot yet).

I don't remember the original music, so I can't be disappointed! :D  That said, any RE safe room music puts a smile on my face, both for gameplay reasons and musical appreciation.

Yeah, that's one of those areas you don't really HAVE to visit again. You might find that in a few rare circumstances you would have preferred to have that area cleared, but in general that's not the case.

Oh, it's not about nostalgia, I mean that with the old music you get more music overall and that it's of better quality in my opinion. Games nowadays have this weird notion that a minimalistic score is more "immersive" or something along those lines, so they have more subdued tracks, and there are even long bouts of silence, I find. I think music greatly improves the atmosphere, instead, just like in movies. Well, it's not a huge deal, just something I noticed when comparing the two soundtracks available.

I'd recommend anyone with a GOG account to backup at least their most beloved games. You don't want to be taken by surprise, and it's within your legal rights to do so. While it's reasonable to expect them to warn you beforehand, business can be unpredictable. I have recently made copies on blue-ray for a good chunk of the best games I own, even if I still have old physical copies for some of them (like Arcanum and Bloodlines, to name two Troika Games). Admittedly, them being blu-rays makes it easier to burn them, as I don't need a huge number of those to archive most of my stuff (with a few exceptions, a lot of those games are old and don't take as much space as new ones).
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 01:21:50 pm
Heh, yes, that's the one. I'm an ammo miser, though, and my health was already middling, so I just let the Licker slash me and I bolted out of the room and used a spray to heal to full once I was out in the library. Based on the map, I will NEVER have to return to that room, so I think I came out ahead. I'm stockpiling shotty ammo like crazy (haven't fired a shot yet).

I don't remember the original music, so I can't be disappointed! :D  That said, any RE safe room music puts a smile on my face, both for gameplay reasons and musical appreciation.

Yeah, that's one of those areas you don't really HAVE to visit again. You might find that in a few rare circumstances you would have preferred to have that area cleared, but in general that's not the case.

Oh, it's not about nostalgia, I mean that with the old music you get more music overall and that it's of better quality in my opinion. Games nowadays have this weird notion that a minimalistic score is more "immersive" or something along those lines, so they have more subdued tracks, and there are even long bouts of silence, I find. I think music greatly improves the atmosphere, instead, just like in movies. Well, it's not a huge deal, just something I noticed when comparing the two soundtracks available.

I'd recommend anyone with a GOG account to backup at least their most beloved games. You don't want to be taken by surprise, and it's within your legal rights to do so. While it's reasonable to expect them to warn you beforehand, business can be unpredictable. I have recently made copies on blue-ray for a good chunk of the best games I own, even if I still have old physical copies for some of them (like Arcanum and Bloodlines, to name two Troika Games). Admittedly, them being blu-rays makes it easier to burn them, as I don't need a huge number of those to archive most of my stuff (with a few exceptions, a lot of those games are old and don't take as much space as new ones).

I just finished the section in which I briefly controlled the world's worst spy (straight up tells people her real name...oh wait, I guess James Bond is a dumbass, too). I'm in the sewers and fought a really weak boss that I remember from the original RE2. He was much, MUCH less of a pain this time around. :D

I really ought to back up some games, but I'm SO lazy. D':
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 03:14:40 pm
I wish I still had my physical copy of bloodlines with no patches added whatsoever.  I suppose eventually I can get a copy for a somewhat reasonable price from Ebay but its hard for me to totally justify it right now with having it both on Steam and GOG.com.

You've been embraced twice then. Guess one can't have enough Bloodlines in their life.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 03:36:47 pm
I wish I still had my physical copy of bloodlines with no patches added whatsoever.  I suppose eventually I can get a copy for a somewhat reasonable price from Ebay but its hard for me to totally justify it right now with having it both on Steam and GOG.com.

You've been embraced twice then. Guess one can't have enough Bloodlines in their life.

I would imagine most folks who fell in love with the game at launch have both a physical and digital copy. Having to deal with discs is annoying. I'm just glad 3.5 inch disks are no longer all the rage. Software toolworks Star Wars battle chess was on 14 3.5 inch disks. >_<
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: MooCHa on May 19, 2019, 04:03:42 pm
Regarding the physical copy versus download. If you take into consideration that Physical Media will eventually fail. You'd have to buy another copy of it anyway ;)
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 04:06:40 pm
I would imagine most folks who fell in love with the game at launch have both a physical and digital copy. Having to deal with discs is annoying. I'm just glad 3.5 inch disks are no longer all the rage. Software toolworks Star Wars battle chess was on 14 3.5 inch disks. >_<

How big is the first Bloodlines ?

I might buy one of those TB USB's and just install it there. Play it on any computer!
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 04:43:53 pm
I would imagine most folks who fell in love with the game at launch have both a physical and digital copy. Having to deal with discs is annoying. I'm just glad 3.5 inch disks are no longer all the rage. Software toolworks Star Wars battle chess was on 14 3.5 inch disks. >_<

How big is the first Bloodlines ?

I might buy one of those TB USB's and just install it there. Play it on any computer !

It's taking up 4.96 GB on my hard drive, and that's with the unofficial patch installed.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on May 19, 2019, 05:40:25 pm
Supposedly they will create a patch that will allow us to play the games even if they go out of business.

You really believe that from the guy who lied his ass off about the HL2 delays and killed off Troika while doing so? Does someone really think if Valve goes bankrupt they would use their final money and time to create cracks for all their thousands of games? Hell, they never even patched Bloodlines into a state that would run on modern PCs and I even offered them to use my patch for free, like GOG does...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Barabbah on May 19, 2019, 07:26:13 pm
I would never buy digital stuff if I won't (or even can't) keep it at hand offline. It will always come the day you need something you own digitally but not an internet connection. And if I own any I should be able to use them whenever I need, not being dependant to external services and/or having to face restriction of any sorts.

I cannot stand the DRM technologies: if all the data needed to use a game will be installed on the pc the need of the cd in the computer loses any meaning. If I buy physically a game it's because I didn't wanted or couldn't use download it. I don't need cd checks online, I don't need a permanent internet connection to play a singleplayer game, I don't need an imposed platform to play and I don't want to buy cds which, without any notice, have only the cd key to download the game. It's unconceivable anything more insulting than punish those who did the honest thing.

I won't either spending money on rentals peddled as bought stuff as it's done on itunes or steam. Legally you have no ownership, you cannot sold or bequeath them. And only the fact these gimmick are deliberately explained only on the fine prints I find them revolting at least.

And, most of all, if these methods will continue things will only get worse. More and more limits will be imposed and "moral justifications" will be outcried to legalize them. Fuck.

Sorry for the essay.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 07:28:35 pm
Supposedly they will create a patch that will allow us to play the games even if they go out of business.

You really believe that from the guy who lied his ass off about the HL2 delays and killed off Troika while doing so? Does someone really think if Valve goes bankrupt they would use their final money and time to create cracks for all their thousands of games? Hell, they never even patched Bloodlines into a state that would run on modern PCs and I even offered them to use my patch for free, like GOG does...

Obviously GOG is the better client overall, but Valve isn't going to sow bad cred with people who are completely unaware that they might lose all their games.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 20, 2019, 12:35:59 am
I wish I still had my physical copy of bloodlines with no patches added whatsoever.  I suppose eventually I can get a copy for a somewhat reasonable price from Ebay but its hard for me to totally justify it right now with having it both on Steam and GOG.com.

You've been embraced twice then. Guess one can't have enough Bloodlines in their life.

I bought it on Steam first but often if the price is right and I see a game on GOG even if I have it on Steam or Origin, I get it on GOG.  I love the lack of DRM.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 20, 2019, 04:09:28 am
I bought it on Steam first but often if the price is right and I see a game on GOG even if I have it on Steam or Origin, I get it on GOG.  I love the lack of DRM.

Now that you mention it, I am quite concerned about Origin. That is the client that can actually go down and under. And then what ? They will take Commander Shepard from me ?
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 20, 2019, 06:07:37 am
I bought it on Steam first but often if the price is right and I see a game on GOG even if I have it on Steam or Origin, I get it on GOG.  I love the lack of DRM.

Now that you mention it, I am quite concerned about Origin. That is the client that can actually go down and under. And then what ? They will take Commander Shepard from me ?

It was annoying when EA decided to make their newer games Origin exclusives. 
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 20, 2019, 06:11:53 am
I bought it on Steam first but often if the price is right and I see a game on GOG even if I have it on Steam or Origin, I get it on GOG.  I love the lack of DRM.

Now that you mention it, I am quite concerned about Origin. That is the client that can actually go down and under. And then what ? They will take Commander Shepard from me ?

It was annoying when EA decided to make their newer games Origin exclusives.

I'm trying to think of any other games I would ever want to buy on their service. Now that I've given up on Bioware and EA has digested Visceral (no more Dead Space), I think I don't need them any more.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Barabbah on May 20, 2019, 10:42:18 am
Games platform for rentals posed as purchases + scam game producer and entertainment cancer = origin

(http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/986/9866256/2824346-eagrimreaper.jpg)
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on May 20, 2019, 01:00:10 pm
Games platform for rentals posed as purchases + scam game producer and entertainment cancer = origin

(http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/986/9866256/2824346-eagrimreaper.jpg)

Haha, great pic.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 12:21:55 am
Games platform for rentals posed as purchases + scam game producer and entertainment cancer = origin

(http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/986/9866256/2824346-eagrimreaper.jpg)

"Over my dead body"

(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/6SGqPgaPJ2aHSHTxmb7KwE.jpg)
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 02:48:09 am
"Over my dead body"

(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/6SGqPgaPJ2aHSHTxmb7KwE.jpg)

While I didn't agree with the direction he helped take ME3, I always did think he was kinda sexy.  I hope he CAN keep BioWare around.  I would be devastated if they closed up shop.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 05:20:47 am
While I didn't agree with the direction he helped take ME3, I always did think he was kinda sexy.  I hope he CAN keep BioWare around.  I would be devastated if they closed up shop.

I don't think it will be necessarily EA's fault. A lot of good people left Bioware after fan outrage... but yeah, its' all in Casey Hudson's hands now.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 05:55:44 am
While I didn't agree with the direction he helped take ME3, I always did think he was kinda sexy.  I hope he CAN keep BioWare around.  I would be devastated if they closed up shop.

I don't think it will be necessarily EA's fault. A lot of good people left Bioware after fan outrage... but yeah, its' all in Casey Hudson's hands now.

I get the impression some were very demoralized by the fan outrage. Up til the ME3 ending controversy BioWare had mainly been getting praise with DA2's lukewarm reception being their worst criticism to date at the time. 
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 06:47:28 am
I get the impression some were very demoralized by the fan outrage. Up til the ME3 ending controversy BioWare had mainly been getting praise with DA2's lukewarm reception being their worst criticism to date at the time.

Which is insane given how amazing Witty Hawke is... :D !
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 06:55:38 am
I get the impression some were very demoralized by the fan outrage. Up til the ME3 ending controversy BioWare had mainly been getting praise with DA2's lukewarm reception being their worst criticism to date at the time.

Which is insane given how amazing Witty Hawke is... :D !

Its an enjoyable game, for sure. 
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 04:36:31 am
*necros the living shit out of this thread*

Y'know, I really do hope that the Epic Game Store fails...well...epically. Sure, Bloodlines 2 isn't exclusive to it, but if it gets a sequel, it could be, and other games are ending up exclusive on it. Now I have to either buy Borderlands 3 on that dog turd launcher that doesn't even have a shopping cart or wait an extra six months. Obviously, I'm going the superior-human-being route and waiting the six months to stick it to these scumbags who have utterly teabagged the consumer, but this still sucks.

I can only hope there is sufficient solidarity to ruin the EGS. If enough weasel gamers can't resist the temptation to play games earlier on a dumpster fire of a launcher, then EGS will win. D':
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 05:36:53 am
*necros the living shit out of this thread*

Y'know, I really do hope that the Epic Game Store fails...well...epically. Sure, Bloodlines 2 isn't exclusive to it, but if it gets a sequel, it could be, and other games are ending up exclusive on it. Now I have to either buy Borderlands 3 on that dog turd launcher that doesn't even have a shopping cart or wait an extra six months. Obviously, I'm going the superior-human-being route and waiting the six months to stick it to these scumbags who have utterly teabagged the consumer, but this still sucks.

I can only hope there is sufficient solidarity to ruin the EGS. If enough weasel gamers can't resist the temptation to play games earlier on a dumpster fire of a launcher, then EGS will win. D':

(https://media.giphy.com/media/tdwOyIMryE9dS/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on June 12, 2019, 08:23:59 am
I can only hope there is sufficient solidarity to ruin the EGS.

I hope the exact opposite, that the Epic store prevails and finally forces Valve to clean up Steam from all the asset flip games and other rubbish.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Barabbah on June 12, 2019, 08:43:04 am
Obviously after ending their bullcrap tactics in favor of a more friendly approach....
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: mdqp on June 12, 2019, 12:11:38 pm
I hope the exact opposite, that the Epic store prevails and finally forces Valve to clean up Steam from all the asset flip games and other rubbish.

I wonder if it's possible to have a decent approval pace, while keeping the rubbish out. I try to think to myself what's the issue, because approval can be very slow, or even arbitrary, whenever some form of curation is applied.

As much as I like GOG, I know of some devs that got really bad experiences with them when it comes to being rejected.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 12:42:03 pm
I can only hope there is sufficient solidarity to ruin the EGS.

I hope the exact opposite, that the Epic store prevails and finally forces Valve to clean up Steam from all the asset flip games and other rubbish.

I'll take the freedom of the releases of Steam over the lack of features and exclusive stranglehold over games that EGS has. One is pro-consumer and the other is pro-producer. I'm a consumer, so guess which one I like, lol.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on June 12, 2019, 12:56:44 pm
I'll take the freedom of the releases of Steam over the lack of features and exclusive stranglehold over games that EGS has.

Give EGS some time, I'm sure it will add feature over and over. Steam was a mess at the start too...

Quote
One is pro-consumer and the other is pro-producer. I'm a consumer, so guess which one I like, lol.

All the shit games on Steam are contra-consumer, as is the always-online policy and their ignorance about selling games that won't work. Bloodlines itself is proof of the latter! Valve at this time just wants to sell everything to get their 30% share, because they can't make any successul games on their own anymore...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: mdqp on June 12, 2019, 01:15:14 pm
All the shit games on Steam are contra-consumer, as is the always-online policy and their ignorance about selling games that won't work. Bloodlines itself is proof of the latter! Valve at this time just wants to sell everything to get their 30% share, because they can't make any successul games on their own anymore...

While I agree that Steam has its flaws, Epic isn't going to make them change their policies on DRM, and the only way to fight exclusives, is (probably) more exclusives. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that Epic's success is related to having a better store (because they don't), so this kind of competition probably won't bring us a better Steam. A lot of the improvements and stuff that Valve is working on, is stuff that was in the pipelines for quite some time now. I doubt we'll see a huge shift in market practices thanks to Epic, in fact I expect them to eventually mirror Steam in most aspects, once they get what they think is a large enough share of the market.

If a good store and good practices were what made the difference for people, GOG would have at least a 50% market share by now.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Candy Narwhal on June 12, 2019, 02:39:18 pm
Valve at this time just wants to sell everything to get their 30% share, because they can't make any successul games on their own anymore...
To be fair, it's not like they've tried in a long time...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Barabbah on June 12, 2019, 09:49:56 pm
So in a nutshell it's needed more competition but not from Epic Games ¯\​_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 10:39:41 pm
I'll take the freedom of the releases of Steam over the lack of features and exclusive stranglehold over games that EGS has.

Give EGS some time, I'm sure it will add feature over and over. Steam was a mess at the start too...

If by "give it time," you mean don't spent any money in their store whatsoever until they offer even remotely comparable features to what Steam says, then sure...but the EGS will fail if people don't buy from them while their platform is terrible in the NOW. I am a paying customer and I will not give them money to knowingly have them give me a terrible experience compared to Steam's platform and even the other stores.

Quote
Quote
One is pro-consumer and the other is pro-producer. I'm a consumer, so guess which one I like, lol.

All the shit games on Steam are contra-consumer, as is the always-online policy and their ignorance about selling games that won't work. Bloodlines itself is proof of the latter! Valve at this time just wants to sell everything to get their 30% share, because they can't make any successul games on their own anymore...

Shitty products' sheer existence while other products are flourishing around them aren't anti-consumer. Just don't buy them. Buy the good ones. There are enough wannabe YouTubers and news places, as well as Steam's product recommendations from friends, etc. for you to be notified of amazing games.

As for Bloodlines, I don't get your point. I would rather they sell Bloodlines than not, even if it has big issues. I've been playing it on Steam these last few times and enjoyed myself. I don't like having to have my discs handy, so digital is more delightful for me.

I also don't understand this "always-online" thing you're talking about. Whenever my Internet goes down, I just play my games in offline mode. =/
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Nanaloma on June 12, 2019, 11:07:10 pm
Bloodlines doesn't work on steam unless finagled unless you are using a UP patch (since Wesp5 did the finagling for you).   They did not warn people about it prior to purchase.   At least GoG makes sure the games work prior to release. 
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 11:09:37 pm
Bloodlines doesn't work on steam unless finagled unless you are using a UP patch (since Wesp5 did the finagling for you).   They did not warn people about it prior to purchase.   At least GoG makes sure the games work prior to release.

Does Bloodlines work better on the Epic Game Store?
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 12, 2019, 11:57:57 pm
Does Bloodlines work better on the Epic Game Store?

Nice one.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on June 13, 2019, 08:04:36 am
If by "give it time," you mean don't spent any money in their store whatsoever until they offer even remotely comparable features to what Steam says, then sure...

Epic has published a road map of when they plan to add what, most of it in the next months. I only wonder why a shopping cart takes so long :)!

Quote
Shitty products' sheer existence while other products are flourishing around them aren't anti-consumer. Just don't buy them. Buy the good ones.

That's easy for us professional gamers to say, but think about others. Fact is give Valve 100$ and you can get anything on Steam and this is bad!

Quote
As for Bloodlines, I don't get your point. I would rather they sell Bloodlines than not, even if it has big issues.

My point is that Valve has been made aware several times by moderators of the Bloodlines board that the way they sell the game right now it does not work without my patch. They just don't care if they sell working games, they are only interested in their 30%! GOG came to me and asked for integration of the patch up front. And that is the same company that several times tried to commercialize mods too, like if I would sell my patch, they would certainly include it!

Quote
I also don't understand this "always-online" thing you're talking about. Whenever my Internet goes down, I just play my games in offline mode. =/

Valve introduced the client running in the background for single player games and I really hate that. Everyone does it now except for GOG...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Barabbah on June 13, 2019, 09:17:21 am
I still have my original CDs, copied the files a while ago on my computer in fear or consuming them. But if I don't have them (or I lose them) I wonder if Troika people are still getting payed or all the profit on current purchases goes to Activision/Steam/disnei (the latter one was ironically but who knows if this will happen....)?
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on June 13, 2019, 12:38:35 pm
If by "give it time," you mean don't spent any money in their store whatsoever until they offer even remotely comparable features to what Steam says, then sure...

Epic has published a road map of when they plan to add what, most of it in the next months. I only wonder why a shopping cart takes so long :)!

You and me both. And when they can compare with Steam, at that point a gamer might reasonably consider purchasing from the EGS without getting the short end of the stick. For now, however, it's horrible compared to Steam. The number of features missing is shocking. And of course, when they finally add the ability to post reviews, developers have to opt-in for the reviews to be visible on the page. So if you put out a shitty game on PC only, that isn't a big enough title to get reviewed professionally, and you opt-out on having reviews shown on your page, you could bamboozle customers into buying your trash...whereas on Steam, a game could look okay but have "mostly negative" reviews and you can safely skip it.

Quote
Quote
Shitty products' sheer existence while other products are flourishing around them aren't anti-consumer. Just don't buy them. Buy the good ones.

That's easy for us professional gamers to say, but think about others. Fact is give Valve 100$ and you can get anything on Steam and this is bad!

Which is worse? A few minor annoyances (by which I mean games you can just easily ignore), or people making games of some actual level of quality who can't afford to put a game out at $500 or $1000 or whatever arbitrary value because they spent their money making their game, buying groceries, and paying rent? You can ignore the trash games so easily.

Quote
Quote
As for Bloodlines, I don't get your point. I would rather they sell Bloodlines than not, even if it has big issues.

My point is that Valve has been made aware several times by moderators of the Bloodlines board that the way they sell the game right now it does not work without my patch. They just don't care if they sell working games, they are only interested in their 30%! GOG came to me and asked for integration of the patch up front. And that is the same company that several times tried to commercialize mods too, like if I would sell my patch, they would certainly include it!

Of course, we're not talking about GOG, though. We're directly comparing EGS and Steam. I Googled it and didn't even see Bloodlines 1 purchasable on the Epic Game store at all.

Quote
Quote
I also don't understand this "always-online" thing you're talking about. Whenever my Internet goes down, I just play my games in offline mode. =/

Valve introduced the client running in the background for single player games and I really hate that. Everyone does it now except for GOG...

Why does it bother you? I can play my games offline just fine and I don't see the client when I'm gaming because I'm in full-screen.

Not one thing is better here about the Epic Game Store unless perhaps you count gating the poor from releasing games because your gaming elitism is more important to you than people's careers livelihood. XD
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on June 13, 2019, 01:47:52 pm
So if you put out a shitty game on PC only, that isn't a big enough title to get reviewed professionally, and you opt-out on having reviews shown on your page, you could bamboozle customers into buying your trash...whereas on Steam, a game could look okay but have "mostly negative" reviews and you can safely skip it.

You know pretty well that for now you will only get well known blockbusters on the EGS, so reviews are not really needed.

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You can ignore the trash games so easily.

You should read some articles about these trash games. If I remember correctly they already outnumber the real games, and I'm not talking about bad games here, but basically about real frauds, like copying some Unity store assets together to make a cheap buck! Steam needs some quality control but all Valve wants is money!

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I Googled it and didn't even see Bloodlines 1 purchasable on the Epic Game store at all.

Yes. For now we don't know how Epic would have handled it, but I know that Valve basically said: FU, we sell a broken game and we know it!

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I can play my games offline just fine and I don't see the client when I'm gaming because I'm in full-screen.

Retail games start fast, when I run something from Steam the client normally updates itself and then the game and it sometimes takes ages.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 13, 2019, 05:27:02 pm
The interesting topic of Steam.  Here is my take on it, based on my own experiences.

There was a time, before GOG.com, where every game developer wanted *some* form of DRM because of how widespread piracy and torrenting had become, and they often came out with insanely draconian DRM schemes like StarForce AND extremely draconian and damaging DRM schemes like SecuROM.  I still remember these days with great clarity, maybe with even a bit of PTSD.  DRM was making it so that we could have only so many installs of any given game without having to eventually call someone official to get them to rerelease your license, or we were only permitted so many installs of a game per month, etc.  And worst of all, SecuROM and its hidden rootkit were screwing up and even bricking PCs.  Mine was never bricked, but I remember my optical drive being taken over, my ability to watch legally purchased DVDs being scrambled, access to my external drives cut off, etc.   

Then we had Steam.  Steam was a DRM scheme that was overall, very gentle.  It didn't try to police or ruin PCs, it usually didn't have draconian restrictions (the only time it did was the by direct choice of the game developer and not Valve) of the other DRM schemes and it had added bonuses.  Sure, it had to run in the background but...you could use it to chat with friends as you played.  You could buy other games from it because it wasn't just DRM, it was a digital online store AND online archive of your purchased games that you would always download again any time you wanted.  Before we got used to it and came to just expect it, that was pretty cool.  It mad it possible for me to get games I otherwise couldn't because of how restrictive AND destructive the likes of SecuROM was.

Largely thanks to Steam, before GOG.com (which I do love a lot) came around, those insane and draconian DRM practices became unnecessary and fell by the wayside.  NOW its been a few years since they were a thing and we have gotten used to their absence and we have gotten kind of spoiled by that and then later on GOG.com came out with absolutely no DRM at all (although you will certainly find tons of GOG.com copies of video games peppering pirate sites, not nearly as often as the Steam copies) and we have gotten even more spoiled and so now we look at the Steam client as an annoyance despite the fact that once upon a time, people really loved Steam and were pretty darn grateful for its existence because of what it saved us from.  I know I sure was *rubbing old SecuROM battle scars*.  I have a feeling that if Steam and similar clients crashed and burned it wouldn't become a magical GOG DRM free lovefest, I think we would go back to some crappy and outrageous DRM schemes.  Not every game developer wants to use GOG.com for its newer games.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on June 13, 2019, 07:08:31 pm
So if you put out a shitty game on PC only, that isn't a big enough title to get reviewed professionally, and you opt-out on having reviews shown on your page, you could bamboozle customers into buying your trash...whereas on Steam, a game could look okay but have "mostly negative" reviews and you can safely skip it.

You know pretty well that for now you will only get well known blockbusters on the EGS, so reviews are not really needed.

Quote
You can ignore the trash games so easily.

You should read some articles about these trash games. If I remember correctly they already outnumber the real games, and I'm not talking about bad games here, but basically about real frauds, like copying some Unity store assets together to make a cheap buck! Steam needs some quality control but all Valve wants is money!

Quote
I Googled it and didn't even see Bloodlines 1 purchasable on the Epic Game store at all.

Yes. For now we don't know how Epic would have handled it, but I know that Valve basically said: FU, we sell a broken game and we know it!

Quote
I can play my games offline just fine and I don't see the client when I'm gaming because I'm in full-screen.

Retail games start fast, when I run something from Steam the client normally updates itself and then the game and it sometimes takes ages.

None of this shows why EGS is currently a better store front for customers than Steam, though, unless you count "less non-physical mess," which hardly outweighs the plethora of good features Steam has. Those jackwagons don't even have a shopping cart yet, and they want me to buy from them. Heck with 'em. If they want my business, they need to WOO me.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Barabbah on June 13, 2019, 07:29:07 pm
Once a friend bought the remake of need for speed most wanted on cd. It needed to install origin before the actual game but origin itself didn't recognized the disc as original (not pirated). But that wasn't the best part of the story. Opening the disc in explorer I've soon pointed him there was a mastodontic zip file. The whole game was inside. Free of drm.

We were like this (except the discussion of lost paellas):
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on June 13, 2019, 07:47:45 pm
None of this shows why EGS is currently a better store front for customers than Steam, though, unless you count "less non-physical mess," which hardly outweighs the plethora of good features Steam has.

I never said that the EGS was better, it isn't! I only said that Valve needed a better competion than local stores like Uplay and Origin to finally get their act together. They had the monopoly too long...
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on June 13, 2019, 09:30:29 pm
None of this shows why EGS is currently a better store front for customers than Steam, though, unless you count "less non-physical mess," which hardly outweighs the plethora of good features Steam has.

I never said that the EGS was better, it isn't! I only said that Valve needed a better competion than local stores like Uplay and Origin to finally get their act together. They had the monopoly too long...

Ah, okay. I would contend, however, that EGS is not good competition to Valve on the consumer end for the various reasons we've covered, though. They're only good competition to Valve on the producer/publisher/developer side...which I don't really care about as a customer because they can kiss my posterior if they think I'm going to pay them...unless they only put Bloodlines 2 there in which case I would have to cave. Bloodlines 1 is my favorite game so I cannot resist. Thank God it's not exclusive to TGS or I would have to give those fiends money or suffer eternally.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wesp5 on June 13, 2019, 11:06:41 pm
Ah, okay. I would contend, however, that EGS is not good competition to Valve on the consumer end for the various reasons we've covered, though.

Not yet ;). It could well be in a short time and maybe it will end with the EGS being the high quality market with Steam being even more flooded with bad games.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 14, 2019, 01:16:29 am
Ah, okay. I would contend, however, that EGS is not good competition to Valve on the consumer end for the various reasons we've covered, though.

Not yet ;). It could well be in a short time and maybe it will end with the EGS being the high quality market with Steam being even more flooded with bad games.

EGS doesn't deserve success as far as I'm concerned. 
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkProphet on June 14, 2019, 05:44:41 am
Ah, okay. I would contend, however, that EGS is not good competition to Valve on the consumer end for the various reasons we've covered, though.

Not yet ;). It could well be in a short time and maybe it will end with the EGS being the high quality market with Steam being even more flooded with bad games.

EGS doesn't deserve success as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah. You know how CD Projekt Red builds good will with the customer? EGS is doing the opposite. As Wesp says, the store may one day be good, but I'm not going for forget the shit they're pulling right now. They're pissing me off quite a lot causing Borderlands 3 and The Outer Worlds to not come out on Steam when the games are first launched, and I'll be damned if they're going to earn my loyalty. Steam has never screwed me over.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 14, 2019, 09:40:14 am
Ah, okay. I would contend, however, that EGS is not good competition to Valve on the consumer end for the various reasons we've covered, though.

Not yet ;). It could well be in a short time and maybe it will end with the EGS being the high quality market with Steam being even more flooded with bad games.

EGS doesn't deserve success as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah. You know how CD Projekt Red builds good will with the customer? EGS is doing the opposite. As Wesp says, the store may one day be good, but I'm not going for forget the shit they're pulling right now. They're pissing me off quite a lot causing Borderlands 3 and The Outer Worlds to not come out on Steam when the games are first launched, and I'll be damned if they're going to earn my loyalty. Steam has never screwed me over.

I am in absolute agreement. 
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Highwayman667 on August 04, 2019, 08:14:30 pm
I never said that the EGS was better, it isn't! I only said that Valve needed a better competion than local stores like Uplay and Origin to finally get their act together. They had the monopoly too long...

One of the reasons I went PC was precisely because I wanted to avoid console exclusivity.

Now I gotta deal with client exclusivity, which means that if I want new Bioware games I have to get Origin. If I want new Walking Dead Games then I have to go to EGS. This is all bullshit.

Hopefully Galaxy 2.0 will be as promising as it sounds.
Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: Wilhelm-Streicher on May 04, 2021, 07:09:38 pm
Allegedly Paradox made a Deal with Epic."The document apparently concerns the terms of Epic’s deal with Paradox. Sounds like we’re not going to get details on that, though Apple’s lawyer wants to discuss “general concepts” from the filing."https://twitter.com/thedextriarchy/status/1389615512385200132 (https://twitter.com/thedextriarchy/status/1389615512385200132)
So maybe if Bloodlines 2 is part of this deal well its highly likely that it will be a 1 year Epic Store exclusive. Fuck.......

By the way i have no idea why this huge Epic vs Apple lawsuit leak has so many other not Epic and Apple relevant stuff.  :haw:


Title: Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
Post by: edx on May 05, 2021, 07:44:10 pm
I think that probably refers to the deal concering Surviving the Aftermath, which was an Epic exclusive back in 2019.
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