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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: The Epic (Store) Fail  (Read 11958 times)

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2019, 12:42:03 pm »
I can only hope there is sufficient solidarity to ruin the EGS.

I hope the exact opposite, that the Epic store prevails and finally forces Valve to clean up Steam from all the asset flip games and other rubbish.

I'll take the freedom of the releases of Steam over the lack of features and exclusive stranglehold over games that EGS has. One is pro-consumer and the other is pro-producer. I'm a consumer, so guess which one I like, lol.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2019, 12:56:44 pm »
I'll take the freedom of the releases of Steam over the lack of features and exclusive stranglehold over games that EGS has.

Give EGS some time, I'm sure it will add feature over and over. Steam was a mess at the start too...

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One is pro-consumer and the other is pro-producer. I'm a consumer, so guess which one I like, lol.

All the shit games on Steam are contra-consumer, as is the always-online policy and their ignorance about selling games that won't work. Bloodlines itself is proof of the latter! Valve at this time just wants to sell everything to get their 30% share, because they can't make any successul games on their own anymore...

Offline mdqp

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2019, 01:15:14 pm »
All the shit games on Steam are contra-consumer, as is the always-online policy and their ignorance about selling games that won't work. Bloodlines itself is proof of the latter! Valve at this time just wants to sell everything to get their 30% share, because they can't make any successul games on their own anymore...

While I agree that Steam has its flaws, Epic isn't going to make them change their policies on DRM, and the only way to fight exclusives, is (probably) more exclusives. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that Epic's success is related to having a better store (because they don't), so this kind of competition probably won't bring us a better Steam. A lot of the improvements and stuff that Valve is working on, is stuff that was in the pipelines for quite some time now. I doubt we'll see a huge shift in market practices thanks to Epic, in fact I expect them to eventually mirror Steam in most aspects, once they get what they think is a large enough share of the market.

If a good store and good practices were what made the difference for people, GOG would have at least a 50% market share by now.

Offline Candy Narwhal

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2019, 02:39:18 pm »
Valve at this time just wants to sell everything to get their 30% share, because they can't make any successul games on their own anymore...
To be fair, it's not like they've tried in a long time...

Offline Barabbah

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2019, 09:49:56 pm »
So in a nutshell it's needed more competition but not from Epic Games ¯\​_(ツ)_/¯
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Offline DarkProphet

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2019, 10:39:41 pm »
I'll take the freedom of the releases of Steam over the lack of features and exclusive stranglehold over games that EGS has.

Give EGS some time, I'm sure it will add feature over and over. Steam was a mess at the start too...

If by "give it time," you mean don't spent any money in their store whatsoever until they offer even remotely comparable features to what Steam says, then sure...but the EGS will fail if people don't buy from them while their platform is terrible in the NOW. I am a paying customer and I will not give them money to knowingly have them give me a terrible experience compared to Steam's platform and even the other stores.

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One is pro-consumer and the other is pro-producer. I'm a consumer, so guess which one I like, lol.

All the shit games on Steam are contra-consumer, as is the always-online policy and their ignorance about selling games that won't work. Bloodlines itself is proof of the latter! Valve at this time just wants to sell everything to get their 30% share, because they can't make any successul games on their own anymore...

Shitty products' sheer existence while other products are flourishing around them aren't anti-consumer. Just don't buy them. Buy the good ones. There are enough wannabe YouTubers and news places, as well as Steam's product recommendations from friends, etc. for you to be notified of amazing games.

As for Bloodlines, I don't get your point. I would rather they sell Bloodlines than not, even if it has big issues. I've been playing it on Steam these last few times and enjoyed myself. I don't like having to have my discs handy, so digital is more delightful for me.

I also don't understand this "always-online" thing you're talking about. Whenever my Internet goes down, I just play my games in offline mode. =/

Offline Nanaloma

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2019, 11:07:10 pm »
Bloodlines doesn't work on steam unless finagled unless you are using a UP patch (since Wesp5 did the finagling for you).   They did not warn people about it prior to purchase.   At least GoG makes sure the games work prior to release. 

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2019, 11:09:37 pm »
Bloodlines doesn't work on steam unless finagled unless you are using a UP patch (since Wesp5 did the finagling for you).   They did not warn people about it prior to purchase.   At least GoG makes sure the games work prior to release.

Does Bloodlines work better on the Epic Game Store?

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2019, 11:57:57 pm »
Does Bloodlines work better on the Epic Game Store?

Nice one.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2019, 08:04:36 am »
If by "give it time," you mean don't spent any money in their store whatsoever until they offer even remotely comparable features to what Steam says, then sure...

Epic has published a road map of when they plan to add what, most of it in the next months. I only wonder why a shopping cart takes so long :)!

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Shitty products' sheer existence while other products are flourishing around them aren't anti-consumer. Just don't buy them. Buy the good ones.

That's easy for us professional gamers to say, but think about others. Fact is give Valve 100$ and you can get anything on Steam and this is bad!

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As for Bloodlines, I don't get your point. I would rather they sell Bloodlines than not, even if it has big issues.

My point is that Valve has been made aware several times by moderators of the Bloodlines board that the way they sell the game right now it does not work without my patch. They just don't care if they sell working games, they are only interested in their 30%! GOG came to me and asked for integration of the patch up front. And that is the same company that several times tried to commercialize mods too, like if I would sell my patch, they would certainly include it!

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I also don't understand this "always-online" thing you're talking about. Whenever my Internet goes down, I just play my games in offline mode. =/

Valve introduced the client running in the background for single player games and I really hate that. Everyone does it now except for GOG...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 08:06:49 am by Wesp5 »

Offline Barabbah

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2019, 09:17:21 am »
I still have my original CDs, copied the files a while ago on my computer in fear or consuming them. But if I don't have them (or I lose them) I wonder if Troika people are still getting payed or all the profit on current purchases goes to Activision/Steam/disnei (the latter one was ironically but who knows if this will happen....)?
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Offline DarkProphet

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2019, 12:38:35 pm »
If by "give it time," you mean don't spent any money in their store whatsoever until they offer even remotely comparable features to what Steam says, then sure...

Epic has published a road map of when they plan to add what, most of it in the next months. I only wonder why a shopping cart takes so long :)!

You and me both. And when they can compare with Steam, at that point a gamer might reasonably consider purchasing from the EGS without getting the short end of the stick. For now, however, it's horrible compared to Steam. The number of features missing is shocking. And of course, when they finally add the ability to post reviews, developers have to opt-in for the reviews to be visible on the page. So if you put out a shitty game on PC only, that isn't a big enough title to get reviewed professionally, and you opt-out on having reviews shown on your page, you could bamboozle customers into buying your trash...whereas on Steam, a game could look okay but have "mostly negative" reviews and you can safely skip it.

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Shitty products' sheer existence while other products are flourishing around them aren't anti-consumer. Just don't buy them. Buy the good ones.

That's easy for us professional gamers to say, but think about others. Fact is give Valve 100$ and you can get anything on Steam and this is bad!

Which is worse? A few minor annoyances (by which I mean games you can just easily ignore), or people making games of some actual level of quality who can't afford to put a game out at $500 or $1000 or whatever arbitrary value because they spent their money making their game, buying groceries, and paying rent? You can ignore the trash games so easily.

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As for Bloodlines, I don't get your point. I would rather they sell Bloodlines than not, even if it has big issues.

My point is that Valve has been made aware several times by moderators of the Bloodlines board that the way they sell the game right now it does not work without my patch. They just don't care if they sell working games, they are only interested in their 30%! GOG came to me and asked for integration of the patch up front. And that is the same company that several times tried to commercialize mods too, like if I would sell my patch, they would certainly include it!

Of course, we're not talking about GOG, though. We're directly comparing EGS and Steam. I Googled it and didn't even see Bloodlines 1 purchasable on the Epic Game store at all.

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I also don't understand this "always-online" thing you're talking about. Whenever my Internet goes down, I just play my games in offline mode. =/

Valve introduced the client running in the background for single player games and I really hate that. Everyone does it now except for GOG...

Why does it bother you? I can play my games offline just fine and I don't see the client when I'm gaming because I'm in full-screen.

Not one thing is better here about the Epic Game Store unless perhaps you count gating the poor from releasing games because your gaming elitism is more important to you than people's careers livelihood. XD

Offline Wesp5

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2019, 01:47:52 pm »
So if you put out a shitty game on PC only, that isn't a big enough title to get reviewed professionally, and you opt-out on having reviews shown on your page, you could bamboozle customers into buying your trash...whereas on Steam, a game could look okay but have "mostly negative" reviews and you can safely skip it.

You know pretty well that for now you will only get well known blockbusters on the EGS, so reviews are not really needed.

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You can ignore the trash games so easily.

You should read some articles about these trash games. If I remember correctly they already outnumber the real games, and I'm not talking about bad games here, but basically about real frauds, like copying some Unity store assets together to make a cheap buck! Steam needs some quality control but all Valve wants is money!

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I Googled it and didn't even see Bloodlines 1 purchasable on the Epic Game store at all.

Yes. For now we don't know how Epic would have handled it, but I know that Valve basically said: FU, we sell a broken game and we know it!

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I can play my games offline just fine and I don't see the client when I'm gaming because I'm in full-screen.

Retail games start fast, when I run something from Steam the client normally updates itself and then the game and it sometimes takes ages.

Offline DarkZephyr

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2019, 05:27:02 pm »
The interesting topic of Steam.  Here is my take on it, based on my own experiences.

There was a time, before GOG.com, where every game developer wanted *some* form of DRM because of how widespread piracy and torrenting had become, and they often came out with insanely draconian DRM schemes like StarForce AND extremely draconian and damaging DRM schemes like SecuROM.  I still remember these days with great clarity, maybe with even a bit of PTSD.  DRM was making it so that we could have only so many installs of any given game without having to eventually call someone official to get them to rerelease your license, or we were only permitted so many installs of a game per month, etc.  And worst of all, SecuROM and its hidden rootkit were screwing up and even bricking PCs.  Mine was never bricked, but I remember my optical drive being taken over, my ability to watch legally purchased DVDs being scrambled, access to my external drives cut off, etc.   

Then we had Steam.  Steam was a DRM scheme that was overall, very gentle.  It didn't try to police or ruin PCs, it usually didn't have draconian restrictions (the only time it did was the by direct choice of the game developer and not Valve) of the other DRM schemes and it had added bonuses.  Sure, it had to run in the background but...you could use it to chat with friends as you played.  You could buy other games from it because it wasn't just DRM, it was a digital online store AND online archive of your purchased games that you would always download again any time you wanted.  Before we got used to it and came to just expect it, that was pretty cool.  It mad it possible for me to get games I otherwise couldn't because of how restrictive AND destructive the likes of SecuROM was.

Largely thanks to Steam, before GOG.com (which I do love a lot) came around, those insane and draconian DRM practices became unnecessary and fell by the wayside.  NOW its been a few years since they were a thing and we have gotten used to their absence and we have gotten kind of spoiled by that and then later on GOG.com came out with absolutely no DRM at all (although you will certainly find tons of GOG.com copies of video games peppering pirate sites, not nearly as often as the Steam copies) and we have gotten even more spoiled and so now we look at the Steam client as an annoyance despite the fact that once upon a time, people really loved Steam and were pretty darn grateful for its existence because of what it saved us from.  I know I sure was *rubbing old SecuROM battle scars*.  I have a feeling that if Steam and similar clients crashed and burned it wouldn't become a magical GOG DRM free lovefest, I think we would go back to some crappy and outrageous DRM schemes.  Not every game developer wants to use GOG.com for its newer games.

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: The Epic (Store) Fail
« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2019, 07:08:31 pm »
So if you put out a shitty game on PC only, that isn't a big enough title to get reviewed professionally, and you opt-out on having reviews shown on your page, you could bamboozle customers into buying your trash...whereas on Steam, a game could look okay but have "mostly negative" reviews and you can safely skip it.

You know pretty well that for now you will only get well known blockbusters on the EGS, so reviews are not really needed.

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You can ignore the trash games so easily.

You should read some articles about these trash games. If I remember correctly they already outnumber the real games, and I'm not talking about bad games here, but basically about real frauds, like copying some Unity store assets together to make a cheap buck! Steam needs some quality control but all Valve wants is money!

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I Googled it and didn't even see Bloodlines 1 purchasable on the Epic Game store at all.

Yes. For now we don't know how Epic would have handled it, but I know that Valve basically said: FU, we sell a broken game and we know it!

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I can play my games offline just fine and I don't see the client when I'm gaming because I'm in full-screen.

Retail games start fast, when I run something from Steam the client normally updates itself and then the game and it sometimes takes ages.

None of this shows why EGS is currently a better store front for customers than Steam, though, unless you count "less non-physical mess," which hardly outweighs the plethora of good features Steam has. Those jackwagons don't even have a shopping cart yet, and they want me to buy from them. Heck with 'em. If they want my business, they need to WOO me.

 

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