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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 => Bloodlines 2 General discussion => Topic started by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 23, 2019, 08:54:50 pm

Title: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 23, 2019, 08:54:50 pm
Its no secret that some of Bloodlines 1 characters will make a return in Bloodlines 2.
So lets have some fun and speculate.

I would love if VV, Damsel, Pisha, Jack, Taxidriver/Cain and Beckett are back in 2 but everyone else is also welcome. Except for LaCroix, Sheriff, Ming Xiao, Chang Brothers, Mandarin, Johnny, Zygania, Vick, Jezebel, Kanker, Hannah, Tin Can Bill, Bach, Dennis and Andrei of course who should be dead.
Heather could be saved if the player send her away but i hope that she doesn´t come back.
I would prefer if Jeanette and/or Therese won´t return because of the playerchoice about their fates but that seems unlikely.
Jeanette is the most iconic character of them all.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on April 23, 2019, 09:24:50 pm
I would love if VV, Damsel, Pisha, Jack, Taxidriver/Cain and Beckett are back in 2 but everyone else is also welcome.

I think Pisha, Jack and Beckett could come back as they are known to travel all over the world. VV, Ash, Isaac, Strauss, Damsel, Nines, Gary, Bertram, and other Nosferatu are pretty much bound to LA in my opinion and should not be around. Of course Cain should better not come back to keep his secret intact, or maybe he will turn the thinblood player into a full vampire?

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Jeanette is the most iconic character of them all.

According to the V5 canon "The Asylum" is now a franchise and both sisters survived so it would be possible for Jeanette e.g. to open a new club in Seattle :)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 23, 2019, 09:43:27 pm
I think Pisha, Jack and Beckett could come back as they are known to travel all over the world. VV, Damsel and Nines are pretty much bound to
 LA in my opinion and should not be around.
I believe that the Bloodlines 2 trailer voice sound a lot like an older VV / Nika Futterman.
Also good authors always find ways to explain why XYZ are back. ;)
Well, except dead characters like LaCroix.
By the way I am not a big fan that the Seattle prince is named Cross.

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Of course Cain should not come back to keep the secret around him intact, or maybe he will make the thinblood into a full vampire?
Not as major or secondary character but as small cameo why not? ;)

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According to the V5 canon "The Asylum" is now a franchise and both sisters survived so it would be possible for Jeanette e.g. to open a new club in Seattle :)!
I know but I don´t like this because it makes the Bloodlines 1 decision irrelevant.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 24, 2019, 12:41:17 am
I think Beckett is a must. If anyone has to return, then who better than him honestly.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on April 24, 2019, 01:02:42 am
I would love if VV, Damsel, Pisha, Jack, Taxidriver/Cain and Beckett are back in 2 but everyone else is also welcome.

I think Pisha, Jack and Beckett could come back as they are known to travel all over the world. VV, Ash, Isaac, Strauss, Damsel, Nines, Gary, Bertram, and other Nosferatu are pretty much bound to LA in my opinion and should not be around. Of course Cain should better not come back to keep his secret intact, or maybe he will turn the thinblood player into a full vampire?

Quote
Jeanette is the most iconic character of them all.

According to the V5 canon "The Asylum" is now a franchise and both sisters survived so it would be possible for Jeanette e.g. to open a new club in Seattle :)!

You had mentioned somewhere that the Gehenna novels were no longer cannon and I believe BL1 is.  Is there anything that says what happened in LA after the prince and the box?  Did the Kwai'jin (sp) take over in a deal with the Camerilla?  None of that happening would free up a lot of characters to move there.  The scared mohawked dude on the beach may have ran there regardless and, as you said, the normal travelers like Beckett.  I could see the more fun characters there like (dog gone memory!) the private detective, perhaps Patty, or even the "dancer" (I just can't remember names today) being too scared to stay there (especially if she says Isaac was eliminated.  Romero is another one I wouldn't be surprised to see there - he'd hate Seattle as much as I do and even more then Hollywood (a lot of fun lines could come from that).  Canada is close by so, maybe Ash?  I'd still like to see Christoff :). 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on April 24, 2019, 01:06:21 am
Quote
Quote
Of course Cain should not come back to keep the secret around him intact, or maybe he will make the thinblood into a full vampire?
Not as major or secondary character but as small cameo why not? ;)

I could see that - at the very end a cabbie saying exactly what he said at the end of BL1. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: mdqp on April 24, 2019, 07:16:56 am
Weren't the Kuei-Jin "retconned" in V5? I heard they don't exist anymore, so Ming Xiao should never be able to come back. I actually kind of liked her, before she stabbed me in the back (I went with them in my first or second playthrough of the game, can't remember right now).  XD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on April 24, 2019, 07:38:51 am
I believe that the Bloodlines 2 trailer voice sound a lot like an older VV / Nika Futterman.

Well, VV has a club herself. Maybe she is opening another in Seattle too :)!

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By the way I am not a big fan that the Seattle prince is named Cross.

I'm pretty sure this is indeed a jab at LaCroix for old Bloodlines fans. I only hope the character is different enough so the name doesn't matter!

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I know but I don´t like this because it makes the Bloodlines 1 decision irrelevant.

I think they already made this clear in Beckett's Jyhad Diary, which is a V20 source book which kind of leads from V20 to V5. I haven't read it so I don't know much more than what is listed in the WW wiki, but it seems many regions, among them LA, are visited to explain how their status quo is after Gehenna didn't happen...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on April 24, 2019, 07:58:48 am
Its no secret that some of Bloodlines 1 characters will make a return in Bloodlines 2.
So lets have some fun and speculate.

I would love if VV, Damsel, Pisha, Jack, Taxidriver/Cain and Beckett are back in 2 but everyone else is also welcome. Except for LaCroix, Sheriff, Ming Xiao, Chang Brothers, Mandarin, Johnny, Zygania, Vick, Jezebel, Kanker, Hannah, Tin Can Bill, Bach, Dennis and Andrei of course who should be dead.
Heather could be saved if the player send her away but i hope that she doesn´t come back.
I would prefer if Jeanette and/or Therese won´t return because of the playerchoice about their fates but that seems unlikely.
Jeanette is the most iconic character of them all.

The most badass character of all should return, of course. Chunk.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 24, 2019, 08:05:54 am
Its no secret that some of Bloodlines 1 characters will make a return in Bloodlines 2.
So lets have some fun and speculate.

I would love if VV, Damsel, Pisha, Jack, Taxidriver/Cain and Beckett are back in 2 but everyone else is also welcome. Except for LaCroix, Sheriff, Ming Xiao, Chang Brothers, Mandarin, Johnny, Zygania, Vick, Jezebel, Kanker, Hannah, Tin Can Bill, Bach, Dennis and Andrei of course who should be dead.
Heather could be saved if the player send her away but i hope that she doesn´t come back.
I would prefer if Jeanette and/or Therese won´t return because of the playerchoice about their fates but that seems unlikely.
Jeanette is the most iconic character of them all.

The most badass character of all should return, of course. Chunk.

Don't be silly. Obviously the most badass is Fat Larry
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on April 24, 2019, 08:27:14 am
I think Beckett is a must. If anyone has to return, then who better than him honestly.


Agreed! In fact there's been some speculation that the guy on the Ferris wheel from the promo is him.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 24, 2019, 11:01:50 am
The most badass character of all should return, of course. Chunk.
You can kill Chunk at the Gallery or at the end and i would prefer if Bloodlines 2 respects all of the playerchoices. ;)
Well except from Pisha. She could also be killed but it would be a lot more interessing if Bloodlines 2 ignores that.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on April 24, 2019, 12:13:57 pm
You can kill Chunk at the Gallery or at the end and i would prefer if Bloodlines 2 respects all of the playerchoices. ;)

Chunk tells us in Bloodlines that he has six brothers upholding the law, so even if you kill him and his silent brother, there are five left :)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 24, 2019, 01:06:46 pm
Chunk tells us in Bloodlines that he has six brothers upholding the law, so even if you kill him and his silent brother, there are five left :)!
Of course you can´t rule that out but in my opinion it would be a little to forced that we´ll see one his brothers in Seattle.
Also i suspect  that the Seattle Brother would be too similiar to Chunk.


Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Signothorn on April 24, 2019, 11:36:44 pm
Thread is a little more about who we'd like to return than pure speculation about who will, but we all have our biases hehehe.

I'd like Brian Mitsoda to reprise Romero, primarily because his talking voice rocks. Wasn't he a ghoul of Isaac Abrahms though?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on April 25, 2019, 05:31:01 am
I think Beckett is a must. If anyone has to return, then who better than him honestly.


Agreed! In fact there's been some speculation that the guy on the Ferris wheel from the promo is him.

People do some highly illogical speculation. "Dude is a vampire and has hair down to his shoulders! IT'S BECKETT." Ehhhh but how about all the evidence to the contrary? Beckett is a logical guy and a Gangrel. The guy on the ferris wheel looks to be a Toreador from his hair, good looks in the face, his classy attire, and the rose in his pocket; probably a Toreador Antitribu (they're sadists). This guy appears to have murdered two civilians for kicks, and getting up on a ferris wheel to enjoy his kills, inviting the viewer to join in the fun. Beckett doesn't kill humans for pleasure and the scene is so whimsical that it's incredibly unlikely that the Beast took this Kindred over to put him in this particular situation atop a ferris wheel with two civvies.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 25, 2019, 06:50:14 am
The most badass character of all should return, of course. Chunk.

He totally should return... unless he was actually killed by The Sheriff... which would totally suck.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: mdqp on April 25, 2019, 07:17:52 am
Thread is a little more about who we'd like to return than pure speculation about who will, but we all have our biases hehehe.

I'd like Brian Mitsoda to reprise Romero, primarily because his talking voice rocks. Wasn't he a ghoul of Isaac Abrahms though?

That's what he seems to imply in his dialogue (I don't know if he is more direct about it in some of the branches).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on April 25, 2019, 07:25:39 am
I think Beckett is a must. If anyone has to return, then who better than him honestly.


Agreed! In fact there's been some speculation that the guy on the Ferris wheel from the promo is him.

People do some highly illogical speculation. "Dude is a vampire and has hair down to his shoulders! IT'S BECKETT." Ehhhh but how about all the evidence to the contrary? Beckett is a logical guy and a Gangrel. The guy on the ferris wheel looks to be a Toreador from his hair, good looks in the face, his classy attire, and the rose in his pocket; probably a Toreador Antitribu (they're sadists). This guy appears to have murdered two civilians for kicks, and getting up on a ferris wheel to enjoy his kills, inviting the viewer to join in the fun. Beckett doesn't kill humans for pleasure and the scene is so whimsical that it's incredibly unlikely that the Beast took this Kindred over to put him in this particular situation atop a ferris wheel with two civvies.

Yeah, I don't think it's him either, I guess people are eager to find ANY clues about a returning character in what little information we have (some think the female narrator is VV, personally I don't see it, the voice doesn't really match IMO and her tone is very different from VVs, although I suppose it's not impossible).

That being said, Beckett is still one of the most likely characters to return, he's been part of the lore for a long time and not just the games, he travels a lot, is drawn by interesting historical events plus he said in BL1 that he finds thin bloods fascinating.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 25, 2019, 07:04:51 pm
Thread is a little more about who we'd like to return than pure speculation about who will, but we all have our biases hehehe.
Maybe but we can clearly rule out some of the characters.

Quote
I'd like Brian Mitsoda to reprise Romero, primarily because his talking voice rocks. Wasn't he a ghoul of Isaac Abrahms though?
I would prefer if he comes back as the newscaster and flesh him more out as real NPC.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 25, 2019, 07:47:36 pm
I utterly detest the Kuei-Jin so I hope NONE of them return. 

That said, I would love to see VV, Jeanette, Romero, Becket, Pisha and Maximillian Strauss, although Strauss would be unlikely, being a primogen and all and possible replacement LA Prince.  But I just love his speaking voice and the way he says "Neonate". 

Now was someone saying someting about the Kuei-Jin being done away with totally?  :D
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 25, 2019, 08:06:45 pm
I utterly detest the Kuei-Jin so I hope NONE of them return. 
Thats very unlikely. I doubt that any from Chinatown characters make a return.
Maybe Mr. Ox but the Kuei-Jin especially Ming Xiao won´t come back.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on April 25, 2019, 08:22:36 pm
I utterly detest the Kuei-Jin so I hope NONE of them return. 
Thats very unlikely. I doubt that any from Chinatown characters make a return.
Maybe Mr. Ox but the Kuei-Jin especially Ming Xiao won´t come back.

Seattle has it's own Chinatown though and as far as I know the Eastern Vampires are still trying to get a hold on the West Coast of the US in V5...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 25, 2019, 08:42:28 pm
Seattle has it's own Chinatown though and as far as I know the Eastern Vampires are still trying to get a hold on the West Coast of the US in V5...

You are absolutely correct (Washingtonian here) that Seattle has a Chinatown within the Chinatown-International District along with Japantown and Little Saigon.  That is certainly where the Kuei-Jin would base themselves.  I just really loath the entire concept of the "Kindred of the East".  They are too "Mary Sue" like for my tastes, if that makes any sense.  Plus they are snobbish, hostile and I hate the lore surrounding their powers and existence.   
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 25, 2019, 09:37:34 pm
Before the kuei gin where conceived, it was introduced one vampire clan/bloodlines from the far east (now not only is exinct but very probably also decanonized....)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 25, 2019, 11:36:41 pm
Before the kuei gin where conceived, it was introduced one vampire clan/bloodlines from the far east (now not only is exinct but very probably also decanonized....)

From what I understand, there are still small populations of Cainite vampires in the East despite the existence of the Kuei-Jin.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 26, 2019, 01:43:43 am
Before the kuei gin where conceived, it was introduced one vampire clan/bloodlines from the far east (now not only is exinct but very probably also decanonized....)

From what I understand, there are still small populations of Cainite vampires in the East despite the existence of the Kuei-Jin.

Maybe some Tal'Mahe'Ra ?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 26, 2019, 02:10:58 am
Before the kuei gin where conceived, it was introduced one vampire clan/bloodlines from the far east (now not only is exinct but very probably also decanonized....)

From what I understand, there are still small populations of Cainite vampires in the East despite the existence of the Kuei-Jin.

Maybe some Tal'Mahe'Ra ?

Yes, such as some of the Nagaraja, which is the bloodline Pisha belongs to. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on April 26, 2019, 02:53:02 am
I'd certainly like to see Yukie again. She was quite the heart-warming hunter. I get pretty friggin' tired of the Society of Leopold (SoL) types. Full-on zealotous hunters are good for morality-free kills, but they're narratively boring. I want hunters with whom I can have dialogs with, get threatened, vice versa, have uneasy alliances with, or even kill or ghoul not-so-bad ones to please my Kindred superiors.

But yeah, Yukie and/or lots of non-SoL hunters would make me quite happy.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 26, 2019, 03:16:31 am
I'd certainly like to see Yukie again. She was quite the heart-warming hunter. I get pretty friggin' tired of the Society of Leopold (SoL) types. Full-on zealotous hunters are good for morality-free kills, but they're narratively boring. I want hunters with whom I can have dialogs with, get threatened, vice versa, have uneasy alliances with, or even kill or ghoul not-so-bad ones to please my Kindred superiors.

But yeah, Yukie and/or lots of non-SoL hunters would make me quite happy.

Excellent point, I loved Yukie as well. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 27, 2019, 05:04:06 am
Excellent point, I loved Yukie as well.

Same here, she was a lot of fun.

She's still likely to appear as well, given how (as far as I know) she doesn't have a death state in her questline.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: mdqp on April 27, 2019, 07:26:47 am
Same here, she was a lot of fun.

She's still likely to appear as well, given how (as far as I know) she doesn't have a death state in her questline.

Well, she CAN die, but it's hard to imagine that as canon.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 27, 2019, 08:49:21 am
Excellent point, I loved Yukie as well.

Same here, she was a lot of fun.

She's still likely to appear as well, given how (as far as I know) she doesn't have a death state in her questline.

Maybe she will have a deeper role this time if she makes an appearance.  Get a lot more fleshed out. 

I would like to see Nines again but I'm pretty sure his heart remains with LA.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 27, 2019, 12:23:13 pm
Maybe she will have a deeper role this time if she makes an appearance.  Get a lot more fleshed out.

It might depend on what tone the game might have. Some people might be a bit put off by her. Not me though.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on April 27, 2019, 02:49:55 pm
Some people might be a bit put off by her.

If the SWJ rumors are true, which I hope they are not, someone like Yukie wouldn't be possible anyway. An all Asian stereotype girl showing her panties would surely be called racist and anti- feminist nowadays ;)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 27, 2019, 08:42:18 pm
Some people might be a bit put off by her.

If the SWJ rumors are true, which I hope they are not, someone like Yukie wouldn't be possible anyway. An all Asian stereotype girl showing her panties would surely be called racist and anti- feminist nowadays ;)!

Unless her design shows an evolution on her character. Some elements can be removed (like the huge gauntlet) or added (a wider arsenal). The important is her personality, a girl survived to a deep tragedy, raised as a great hunter and yet not narrow minded as most of her collegues, won't be altered.

Writing this down I made an interested thought: her heavily stereotyped character is also a P.C. role model. No need to be cautious of SJW bitchin.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Sabbat_stalker on April 27, 2019, 11:19:20 pm
I could see Ash River making a return since he says that he is going to leave LA and enough time has passed since Bloodline 1-2 for him to settle down or becoming worse and he could make some reference to the bloodline PC in the sequel.
It would also make the most sense out of all the characters, I wouldn't mind seeing VV again.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on April 28, 2019, 01:05:07 am
Some people might be a bit put off by her.

If the SWJ rumors are true, which I hope they are not, someone like Yukie wouldn't be possible anyway. An all Asian stereotype girl showing her panties would surely be called racist and anti- feminist nowadays ;)!

Well, in five years, she probably isn't a schoolgirl anymore and will dress and look like a woman. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 28, 2019, 01:38:09 am
Some people might be a bit put off by her.

If the SWJ rumors are true, which I hope they are not, someone like Yukie wouldn't be possible anyway. An all Asian stereotype girl showing her panties would surely be called racist and anti- feminist nowadays ;)!

That sounds to me more like "uptight prude with no sense of humor".  How can anyone think that using a character style created BY the Japanese themselves is racist? 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 28, 2019, 03:29:12 am
Unless her design shows an evolution on her character. Some elements can be removed (like the huge gauntlet) or added (a wider arsenal). The important is her personality, a girl survived to a deep tragedy, raised as a great hunter and yet not narrow minded as most of her collegues, won't be altered.

Don't forget about the robot arm... was that even a "robot arm" ?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 28, 2019, 11:24:08 am
Unless her design shows an evolution on her character. Some elements can be removed (like the huge gauntlet) or added (a wider arsenal). The important is her personality, a girl survived to a deep tragedy, raised as a great hunter and yet not narrow minded as most of her collegues, won't be altered.

Don't forget about the robot arm... was that even a "robot arm" ?

A gauntlet, if my memory didn't failed on me, is a metallic glove (although non being native english I may did a mistake :razz:)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 28, 2019, 12:14:05 pm
A gauntlet, if my memory didn't failed on me, is a metallic glove (although non being native english I may did a mistake :razz:)

It did look pretty cool and perhaps would look even better with a revamped (ha!) design.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 28, 2019, 06:29:08 pm
Well, in five years, she probably isn't a schoolgirl anymore and will dress and look like a woman.
Isn´t the year gap between Bloodlines 1 and Bloodlines 2 more fifteen than five years?
Also why should Yukie stay in the US when she already had achieved her goal in killing the hengeyokai?
I believe she return to Japan and dress in a more traditional japanese way.

Ash on the other hand is possible but i don´t get the impression in Bloodlines that he would settle down
in densely populated areas like Seattle.
Also like Yukie he can die in the Leopold caves.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 28, 2019, 06:47:42 pm
Ash on the other hand is possible but i don´t get the impression in Bloodlines that he would settle down
in densely populated areas like Seattle.
Also like Yukie he can die in the Leopold caves.

That kind of thing doesn't always stop game devs.  Baldur's Gate 2 brought back characters that could have died in the previous installment and you could ask things like "Didn't I kill you?"  lol.  Plus didn't I read in this very thread that canonically some characters that could die in the original game are still officially alive, like Jeanette and Therese?  Maybe some of these other characters are as well.   
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 28, 2019, 07:04:18 pm
That kind of thing doesn't always stop game devs.  Baldur's Gate 2 brought back characters that could have died in the previous installment and you could ask things like "Didn't I kill you?"  lol.  Plus didn't I read in this very thread that canonically some characters that could die in the original game are still officially alive, like Jeanette and Therese?  Maybe some of these other characters are as well.
Baldurs Gate 2 was a long time ago and "newer" games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age have respect in most cases the previous player choices.
But in Ash case i agree with you he would speculate that 95% had saved Ash from Leopold.
Its negligible but Jeanette / Therese? I am not a fan of decision retcons especially in this instance.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 28, 2019, 07:41:19 pm
Its negligible but Jeanette / Therese? I am not a fan of decision retcons especially in this instance.

It's a little more feasable with those two because their deaths seems more like conscious supressions. They could justify it by saying "Jeanette tried to bury me in the deeper, filthier parts of her disgusting memories... But I Came Back !!!"
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 28, 2019, 08:16:25 pm
It's a little more feasable with those two because their deaths seems more like conscious supressions. They could justify it by saying "Jeanette tried to bury me in the deeper, filthier parts of her disgusting memories... But I Came Back !!!"
I don´t disagree that this couldn´t be explain but whats the point in making choices when you ignore them in the sequel?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 28, 2019, 09:05:52 pm
Well, in five years, she probably isn't a schoolgirl anymore and will dress and look like a woman.
Isn´t the year gap between Bloodlines 1 and Bloodlines 2 more fifteen than five years?
Also why should Yukie stay in the US when she already had achieved her goal in killing the hengeyokai?
I believe she return to Japan and dress in a more traditional japanese way.

Ash on the other hand is possible but i don´t get the impression in Bloodlines that he would settle down
in densely populated areas like Seattle.
Also like Yukie he can die in the Leopold caves.

I doubt she will turn back since there is no family back. And even if there is, with a job like hers she wouldn't stop to travel the world. And maybe her demon slaying trail might take her to Seattle.

Anyway if Ash will appear I truly hope he won't still be the same irritating spoiled torrie stereotype. Instead Romero, a way cooler torrie (even being only a torrie ghoul) is welcomer (with much sympathies to english grammar, too tired to find a better word).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on April 28, 2019, 09:27:24 pm
Instead Romero, a way cooler torrie (even being only a torrie ghoul) is welcomer (with much sympathies to english grammar, too tired to find a better word).

Speaking of Romero, which was voiced by Mitsoda himself, maybe he was embraced by Isaac in the meantime and is a full vampire? That would be cool :)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 28, 2019, 09:30:02 pm
Instead Romero, a way cooler torrie (even being only a torrie ghoul) is welcomer (with much sympathies to english grammar, too tired to find a better word).

Speaking of Romero, which was voiced by Mitsoda himself, maybe he was embraced by Isaac in the meantime and is a full vampire? That would be cool :)!

I always loved Romero. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 28, 2019, 09:43:13 pm
I doubt she will turn back since there is no family back. And even if there is, with a job like hers she wouldn't stop to travel the world. And maybe her demon slaying trail might take her to Seattle.
I could imagine she would feel homesick. She was only in Los Angeles / in the USA to kill the Hengeyokai.

Speaking of Romero, which was voiced by Mitsoda himself, maybe he was embraced by Isaac in the meantime and is a full vampire? That would be cool :)!
I won´t mind that. Romero is fun and isn´t that complicated like Mercurio.
But if have to choice from all of the Mitsoda characters i would prefer the newscaster.
Of course to make him a more interessing character he must be flesh out more.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on April 28, 2019, 09:59:38 pm
Well, in five years, she probably isn't a schoolgirl anymore and will dress and look like a woman.
Isn´t the year gap between Bloodlines 1 and Bloodlines 2 more fifteen than five years?
Also why should Yukie stay in the US when she already had achieved her goal in killing the hengeyokai?
I believe she return to Japan and dress in a more traditional japanese way.

Ash on the other hand is possible but i don´t get the impression in Bloodlines that he would settle down
in densely populated areas like Seattle.
Also like Yukie he can die in the Leopold caves.

It probably is - I don't remember really - five years just stuck in my head for some reason.  Ash?  I agree.  He went to Canada.  :) 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on April 28, 2019, 10:13:46 pm
Ash?  I agree.  he went to Canada.  :)
Also I don´t think that they bring both Ash and VV back. So more love for Susan.

The thinbloods are one of the major Bloodlines 2 themes so maybe one of Bloodlines 1 thinbloods make a return?
It's possible to kill them all but except for Julius or Cooper I have never done that.
Rosa is in my opinion the most interessant and fun thinblood.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on April 29, 2019, 05:43:12 am
Its negligible but Jeanette / Therese? I am not a fan of decision retcons especially in this instance.

It's a little more feasable with those two because their deaths seems more like conscious supressions. They could justify it by saying "Jeanette tried to bury me in the deeper, filthier parts of her disgusting memories... But I Came Back !!!"

In the Geeks & Sundry YouTube channel, there is a Vampire the Masquerade Tabletop game being run by Jason Carl of White Wolf, and Therese has appeared on it so far as a player controlling her (wearing business attire, glasses, etc.), and she talks about Jeanette with some not-so-nice words. So in a game being run by one of the heads of White Wolf, Jeanette and Therese both exist.

Also, in the V5 rule book, Jeanette and Therese both canonically exist post Bloodlines, so they're around and the decision for neither of them to kill the other is clearly canonical. Also, The Asylum is canon, and it has become a chain of clubs that exist in various cities! We might have an Asylum in Bloodlines 2, even.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 29, 2019, 06:49:22 am
We might have an Asylum in Bloodlines 2, even.

I'm hoping so.  As a Seattle boy, it will be fun to see how they design the layout and where they might place a Seattle based Asylum. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 29, 2019, 11:26:33 am
I'm hoping so.  As a Seattle boy, it will be fun to see how they design the layout and where they might place a Seattle based Asylum.

So they really want to outdo themselves with another Ocean House Hotel huh ?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 29, 2019, 01:37:22 pm
Let's hope a different haunted building for a change :razz:
I would love to see a haunted sex shop LOL!!!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 29, 2019, 06:53:38 pm
Let's hope a different haunted building for a change :razz:
I would love to see a haunted sex shop LOL!!!

The inflatable sheep might attack our PC!!!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 29, 2019, 07:28:55 pm


Or this
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 29, 2019, 07:43:33 pm
Or this

Ha!  Reminds me of the Dildo Bat aka "The Penetrator" from Saints Row The Third and IV.  lol

(https://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/I+seriously+hope+op+doesnt+actually+expect+any+semblance+of+_1268e282c2e5c84d080ddd59907e90b7.jpg)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 29, 2019, 08:05:04 pm
As far as I understood, saints row is a shameless gta clone but the kind which can be proud of it, so it wouldn't surprise me :3
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Gurkhal on April 29, 2019, 09:20:39 pm
As far as I understood, saints row is a shameless gta clone but the kind which can be proud of it, so it wouldn't surprise me :3

Clone or not, the first three games in the Saints' Row series are great. :D
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 29, 2019, 09:45:01 pm
As far as I understood, saints row is a shameless gta clone but the kind which can be proud of it, so it wouldn't surprise me :3

Clone or not, the first three games in the Saints' Row series are great. :D

I like 2, 3 and 4, although I would love to see the series go back to its roots from part 2. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 30, 2019, 02:12:15 am
Let's hope a different haunted building for a change :razz:
I would love to see a haunted sex shop LOL!!!

I don't know. A place like that might lead to a couple of confused boners.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on April 30, 2019, 02:31:40 am
Let's hope a different haunted building for a change :razz:
I would love to see a haunted sex shop LOL!!!

I don't know. A place like that might lead to a couple of confused boners.

Every boner is a blessing.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on April 30, 2019, 05:00:20 am
Let's hope a different haunted building for a change :razz:
I would love to see a haunted sex shop LOL!!!

I don't know. A place like that might lead to a couple of confused boners.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 30, 2019, 05:26:54 am
As far as I understood, saints row is a shameless gta clone but the kind which can be proud of it, so it wouldn't surprise me :3

Clone or not, the first three games in the Saints' Row series are great. :D

Can't even imagine how they'd be, they look like such outrageous games.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on April 30, 2019, 08:37:22 am
With clone I meant the neutral connotation. I'll rephrase that: thematically it stereotypes gta but in an original and humorous way which makes justice, albeit in an unusual way, to the gta genre
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: chaoticjoy1 on April 30, 2019, 05:41:21 pm
Jack and Jeanette are the only ones I truly care about returning.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 01, 2019, 01:59:59 am
Jack and Jeanette are the only ones I truly care about returning.

Most of us do.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 01, 2019, 02:50:12 pm
I want back the whole cast XD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 01, 2019, 07:14:36 pm
I want back the whole cast XD

Now you're gonna get just Patty.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 01, 2019, 07:58:03 pm
Now you're gonna get just Patty.
Its more likely that Pigs will fly or Marian Murietta get flesh out as a character than that Patty make a return. ;)

In all seriousness considering all of Patty fates that is very unlikely.

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 01, 2019, 09:03:52 pm
Now you're gonna get just Patty.
Its more likely that Pigs will fly or Marian Murietta get flesh out as a character than that Patty make a return. ;)

In all seriousness considering all of Patty fates that is very unlikely.

I wouldn't mind, I thought she was morbidly hilarious.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 01, 2019, 11:25:20 pm
Now you're gonna get just Patty.
Its more likely that Pigs will fly or Marian Murietta get flesh out as a character than that Patty make a return. ;)

In all seriousness considering all of Patty fates that is very unlikely.

Yeah, best case scenario, she gets killed in another city by Kindred protecting the Masquerade. She's an idiot and her master chose terribly in selecting her as a ghoul.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 02, 2019, 12:12:31 am
One of the ways to get rid of her is to send her somewhere looking for her sugar daddy; perhaps they told her he went to Seattle.  Patty would fit right in there and be hard to detect from many of the natives. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 02, 2019, 03:39:30 am
One of the ways to get rid of her is to send her somewhere looking for her sugar daddy; perhaps they told her he went to Seattle.  Patty would fit right in there and be hard to detect from many of the natives.


I always feed Patty to Pisha. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 02, 2019, 04:07:55 am
I always feed Patty to Pisha.

You're not big on humanity are ya ?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 02, 2019, 06:47:43 am
One of the ways to get rid of her is to send her somewhere looking for her sugar daddy; perhaps they told her he went to Seattle.  Patty would fit right in there and be hard to detect from many of the natives.

I was going to write down some nasty comments on her but your idea has huge potential. What if she was bounced up and down the world and now to seattle and you have the chance to refer her somewhere else again XD she must already fucked up and out of her mind (also she had aged alot which she feared), I would answer "Kent? He hadn't been out of L.A. in decades...."
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Signothorn on May 02, 2019, 08:42:59 am
I always feed Patty to Pisha.

You're not big on humanity are ya ?

Heh, worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if she was intentionally put in a club because you could instantly walk a few feet and dance it off. It's convenient and efficient. Kind of like eating Taco Bell on the toilet.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 02, 2019, 09:03:57 am
I've always found the humanity bonus dancing a broke game mechanic. Ok, one thing is to dance at a random moment, another being able to, after a gruesome deed, quickly clean up you coscience like using a priest as toilet paper on the confessional (opinion not related to the Confessional club :razz:)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: argikt on May 02, 2019, 09:52:40 am
To keep the congruence, they only can re-use characters that will survive in all possible endings...
This limit the selection to a few ones...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 10:14:03 am
To keep the congruence, they only can re-use characters that will survive in all possible endings...
This limit the selection to a few ones...
Not so much. There are some who gets killed mandatory or optional but the most of more memorable Bloodlines 1 characters had survived the events.
And we shouldn´t forget the fact that Bloodlines 2 take place presumably 15 years after in Seattle.

Also the most iconic one Jeanette & Therese already has been retconed.
Edit: I would also ignore the possible deaths of Pisha and Romero. But only for those two.
 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: argikt on May 02, 2019, 10:34:30 am
Of course you can't kill Jeanette but perhaps you have converted her in Therese or Tourette, won't have sense if you want to continue the history.
I think Jack, is your best chance to see someone returning.
Others npc that you can't kill (in vanilla) like Isaac or Strauss, don't have motivations to be in bl2...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 10:58:44 am
Of course you can't kill Jeanette but perhaps you have converted her in Therese or Tourette, won't have sense if you want to continue the history.
You can´t directly kill Jeanette or Therese but is possible that one of the two kills the other.

Quote
I think Jack, is your best chance to see someone returning.
My money is on Beckett because of the Bloodlines 2 overall Thinblood theme and VV because Fanservice.

Quote
Others npc that you can't kill (in vanilla) like Isaac or Strauss, don't have motivations to be in bl2...
Santa Monica: Jeanette and Therese Voerman, Bertram Tung, Newscaster, Carson, Vandal, Trip and Taxidriver / Cain.
Downtown: Damsel, Nines, Skelter, Jack, Beckett, Jumbles (9th Circle Guard without the Fan Patch but his return is very unlikely) and Max Strauss
Hollywood: Isaac Abrams and Velvet Velour/VV
Warrens: Gary, Imalia and Mitnick
Chinatown: Mr Ox
Giovanni: No one.

Like i said i would also ignore the deaths from Pisha and Romero.
And maybe the Bloodlines 1 thinbloods expect Cooper and Julius.

I agree with you that a guy like Isaac who is so Hollywood thematised won´t make sense but Max could settle down in Seattle after the Bloodlines 1 events
if they ignore the Camerilla end and choose the Anarch end. But i won´t like that.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: argikt on May 02, 2019, 11:02:38 am
I think you can kill Vandal and Ox of you want, also anone else that wont be in an elysium map I think...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 11:09:29 am
I think you can kill Vandal and Ox of you want, also anone else that wont be in an elysium map I think...
Mr Ox will teleport if you try to kill him.
And Vandal? I don´t think this possible because you can buy blood from him at the end.
Yes the clinic is no elysium but i believe you still can´t kill him at any moment.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: argikt on May 02, 2019, 11:11:29 am
never tryed to kill Vandal or Bertram, but I remember entering inside his room and feeding (a little) from him...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 11:19:39 am
never tryed to kill Vandal or Bertram, but I remember entering inside his room and feeding (a little) from him...
Well under normal circumstances you shouldn´t be able to enter Vandals room.
Bertram is immortal and can´t be killed from the player.
And Mr Ox teleport and has an evil laugh if the player try to kill him.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 02, 2019, 11:31:39 am
Well under normal circumstances you shouldn´t be able to enter Vandals room.
Bertram is immortal and can´t be killed from the player.
And Mr Ox teleport and has an evil laugh if the player try to kill him.

Right on all points, but when can you kill Romero? Is that even possible? Also I don't think VV will come back, she is bound to Hollywood and Isaac.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: argikt on May 02, 2019, 11:42:16 am
You can accept prostitute quest and them start a fight...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 11:42:53 am
Right on all points, but when can you kill Romero? Is that even possible?
Yeah you even get a failed quest entry when the player decides to kill him during Pimpin' for Romero ;)

Quote
Also I don't think VV will come back, she is bound to Hollywood and Isaac.
Well the trailer voice sounds a lot like Nika Futterman / VV.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 02, 2019, 12:48:55 pm
I always feed Patty to Pisha.

You're not big on humanity are ya ?

Meh, its one point and you can dance it off as Signothorn points out.  I just love Pisha's dialogue about it too much to pass it up. 


I've always found the humanity bonus dancing a broke game mechanic. Ok, one thing is to dance at a random moment, another being able to, after a gruesome deed, quickly clean up you coscience like using a priest as toilet paper on the confessional (opinion not related to the Confessional club :razz:)

For my part I think it balances things out better.  Do all the humans in the game you see committing gruesome or "inhuman" acts lose humanity points?  Why should I, as a vampire, lose "humanity points" when judging by the likes of Stanley Gimble, the downtown gangsters, Phil, Vandal, the Giovanni sycophants, the Southland Slasher victims, Tawni Sessions and her llama love, the "pornographers" at Ground 0, etc its pretty "human" to do these outrageous or despicable things?  Why does that change now that I have fangs and lack a pulse?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 02, 2019, 02:11:05 pm

For my part I think it balances things out better.  Do all the humans in the game you see committing gruesome or "inhuman" acts lose humanity points?

Yes, they do. The lore claims that most humans have a humanity score of 6, so about average; neither good nor bad. What changes for vampires is the fact that acting inhumanly brings them closer to the Beast, Frenzy, and ultimately turns them into mindless animals. So ironically, it is more important for vampires to maintain as high a moral standing as possible than it is for humans; of course, that's easier said than done...


(Also...humanity dancing bonus? Wait, what? xD)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 02, 2019, 02:33:20 pm

For my part I think it balances things out better.  Do all the humans in the game you see committing gruesome or "inhuman" acts lose humanity points?

Yes, they do. The lore claims that most humans have a humanity score of 6, so about average; neither good nor bad. What changes for vampires is the fact that acting inhumanly brings them closer to the Beast, Frenzy, and ultimately turns them into mindless animals. So ironically, it is more important for vampires to maintain as high a moral standing as possible than it is for humans; of course, that's easier said than done...


(Also...humanity dancing bonus? Wait, what? xD)

And yet violence and deviancy seem to be pretty darn human in this particular world, judging by the actions of several human characters. 

(Also...humanity dancing bonus? Wait, what? xD)

Yep, you can gain one humanity point per club by dancing.   
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 02, 2019, 04:06:47 pm

And yet violence and deviancy seem to be pretty darn human in this particular world, judging by the actions of several human characters. 



Yep, you can gain one humanity point per club by dancing.   


Vampires are in many ways reflections of humanity; their society, their customs, aspirations, mythology are not new, they're based on those they knew when they were human. Even their moral codes resemble ours (don't murder - unless sanctioned -, don't steal from your group, respect your elders, follow tradition) unless they choose to reject them entirely but then they become little more than animals. Even the Sabbat largely follow this code. And, well, humanity can be pretty rotten, can't it? Especially in a grim setting like WoD. It's why I actually dislike the term "humanity" as a measure of moral standing, implying humans are intrinsically good. "Morality" or something similar may have been more appropriate.

And damn, I never knew that about dancing in clubs. It seems extremely silly, but also highly amusing. Although if you want to look at it differently, it brings to mind a quote by Cervantes: “Where there's music there can be no evil”
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 02, 2019, 06:03:37 pm
It's why I actually dislike the term "humanity" as a measure of moral standing, implying humans are intrinsically good. "Morality" or something similar may have been more appropriate.

Amen.  You seem to understand where I am coming from.  lol

This is why I'm glad we have the club dancing as a way to get lost humanity back.  And its not like its a cheat as its a one shot deal for each club that cannot be repeated ad nauseam.  Once you regain a humanity point at a club, that's it for that club and once you get a point from each club, no more at all via that route. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 02, 2019, 08:41:55 pm

And yet violence and deviancy seem to be pretty darn human in this particular world, judging by the actions of several human characters. 



Yep, you can gain one humanity point per club by dancing.   


Vampires are in many ways reflections of humanity; their society, their customs, aspirations, mythology are not new, they're based on those they knew when they were human. Even their moral codes resemble ours (don't murder - unless sanctioned -, don't steal from your group, respect your elders, follow tradition) unless they choose to reject them entirely but then they become little more than animals. Even the Sabbat largely follow this code. And, well, humanity can be pretty rotten, can't it? Especially in a grim setting like WoD. It's why I actually dislike the term "humanity" as a measure of moral standing, implying humans are intrinsically good. "Morality" or something similar may have been more appropriate.

I highly agree with your assertion that "Humanity" is a bad label for the exact reason you gave.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 02, 2019, 11:31:26 pm
About dancing and morality:
1. I didn't know each can be used only once
2. I didn't specified my actual point (:razz:), meaning I don't think you can "dance it off" just a few seconds after a murder or whatever. Or at least myself :facepalm: (and only now I realized, as a totally idiot, I was thinking with my roleplaying style point of view)

About the original topic:
1. Whenever which sister killed the other (if they did) it's also possible, being two split personalities, the other one might not died but temporally regressed deep inside
2. Bertram is immortal? Makes sense (although it will makes more if inside the cistern there is an elysium, and if you are on a fight he'll just disappear without changing the area type and bla bla bla)
3. Pisha: I bet a powerful vampire as her can fake, if needed, her death. The player gets the xp points just as an automatic reflex, thinking he killed her (if set to give)
4. It's not impossible for those elysium npc who should't move out of their territories in LA to do temporaly work trips (or vacations, who knows?) coincidentially to Seattle....
5. Yukie cannot die. And I don't care if someone says the opposite. Yukie. Cannot. Die.
6. Technically, even if you go on a full rampage (<3), some giovanni out of your sight did surely escaped. Pratically, no one cares.
7. Yes, Romero might be dead, but the magic of Avellone dialogues might find a way for you to specify if he's alive. So, no worries on continuity: he possibly can be (optionally) present
8. I forgot someone?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 03, 2019, 12:17:39 am
This is why I'm glad we have the club dancing as a way to get lost humanity back.  And its not like its a cheat as its a one shot deal for each club that cannot be repeated ad nauseam.  Once you regain a humanity point at a club, that's it for that club and once you get a point from each club, no more at all via that route.

I think this is a misunderstanding of what "Humanity" encompasses. Actual "Humanity" is the measure that indicates how close you are to being an empathetic, moral individual, in contrasts to how close you are to your predatory instincts. If you choose to give a homeless person some money rather than feed on them, then you're feelings and emotions bring you closer to a person rather than an animal. It's not necessarily the literal interpretation some people seem to be pointing out.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 03, 2019, 12:45:45 am
This is why I'm glad we have the club dancing as a way to get lost humanity back.  And its not like its a cheat as its a one shot deal for each club that cannot be repeated ad nauseam.  Once you regain a humanity point at a club, that's it for that club and once you get a point from each club, no more at all via that route.

I think this is a misunderstanding of what "Humanity" encompasses. Actual "Humanity" is the measure that indicates how close you are to being an empathetic, moral individual, in contrasts to how close you are to your predatory instincts. If you choose to give a homeless person some money rather than feed on them, then you're feelings and emotions bring you closer to a person rather than an animal. It's not necessarily the literal interpretation some people seem to be pointing out.

I don't misunderstand what "humanity" encompasses and of course its not literal as we aren't human any longer, we're vampires. I just think its not a super accurate name for this particular character stat. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 03, 2019, 02:58:03 am
I don't misunderstand what "humanity" encompasses and of course its not literal as we aren't human any longer, we're vampires. I just think its not a super accurate name for this particular character stat.

I see what you mean, though it's a surefire term to get the point across without having to explain too much about how vampirism works.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 03, 2019, 04:45:32 am

For my part I think it balances things out better.  Do all the humans in the game you see committing gruesome or "inhuman" acts lose humanity points?

Yes, they do. The lore claims that most humans have a humanity score of 6, so about average; neither good nor bad. What changes for vampires is the fact that acting inhumanly brings them closer to the Beast, Frenzy, and ultimately turns them into mindless animals. So ironically, it is more important for vampires to maintain as high a moral standing as possible than it is for humans; of course, that's easier said than done...


(Also...humanity dancing bonus? Wait, what? xD)

And yet violence and deviancy seem to be pretty darn human in this particular world, judging by the actions of several human characters. 

(Also...humanity dancing bonus? Wait, what? xD)

Yep, you can gain one humanity point per club by dancing.   

I think there's some that are pointless.  The one in Chinatown and the dance floor at the hotel with the Russian mob (although that isn't actually a club). 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 03, 2019, 07:16:31 am
I don't misunderstand what "humanity" encompasses and of course its not literal as we aren't human any longer, we're vampires. I just think its not a super accurate name for this particular character stat.

I see what you mean, though it's a surefire term to get the point across without having to explain too much about how vampirism works.

Yeah, its a term I can live with. 

I think there's some that are pointless.  The one in Chinatown and the dance floor at the hotel with the Russian mob (although that isn't actually a club).

Ah yes.  You might be right. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: VampireBill on May 03, 2019, 08:53:04 am
I'm assuming there's something in the lore about vampires who are more public figures or just have a number of human connections needing to up and move every so often or else people will realize they've not aged a day in decades? Obviously this would be more problematic today with the internet and social media and such, but...
15 years is long enough to realize people not changing, particularly when the more "public" characters were supposed to already be well-established in LA at the time of the first game.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 03, 2019, 10:58:08 am
Easy, create the public persona of your son/daughter and took their role when old enough. Add a change of look, personality and acting and here you are.

Regarding humanity/morality, I'm proner to use the former word. Vampires are creatures damned by the inner beast, the biggest counter measure is sticking to your humanity, whenever in the sense of virtue or staying human.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 03, 2019, 01:40:35 pm
I'm assuming there's something in the lore about vampires who are more public figures or just have a number of human connections needing to up and move every so often or else people will realize they've not aged a day in decades? Obviously this would be more problematic today with the internet and social media and such, but...
15 years is long enough to realize people not changing, particularly when the more "public" characters were supposed to already be well-established in LA at the time of the first game.

My excuse would simply be "Botox".  At least for a time.  Look at Cher. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 03, 2019, 02:10:21 pm
You mean Cher or the woman beside all that botox known as Cher?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: AnnekeFloorever on May 03, 2019, 04:29:11 pm
Jeanette will definitely return , at least I hope so.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 03, 2019, 08:48:41 pm
You mean Cher or the woman beside all that botox known as Cher?

I think Cher looks pretty great to be honest. 

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 03, 2019, 10:48:48 pm
I'm assuming there's something in the lore about vampires who are more public figures or just have a number of human connections needing to up and move every so often or else people will realize they've not aged a day in decades? Obviously this would be more problematic today with the internet and social media and such, but...
15 years is long enough to realize people not changing, particularly when the more "public" characters were supposed to already be well-established in LA at the time of the first game.

My excuse would simply be "Botox".  At least for a time.  Look at Cher.

---  or is it plastic?  (eh, we used to joke about Raquel Welsh that plastic doesn't age)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 04, 2019, 12:00:26 am
Mine was a joke on overruse of botox. And it was done barely knowing her by her fame (my knowledge of pop icons is hopeless. Not that I'm complaining)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 04, 2019, 12:24:35 am
Easy, create the public persona of your son/daughter and took their role when old enough. Add a change of look, personality and acting and here you are.

Regarding humanity/morality, I'm proner to use the former word. Vampires are creatures damned by the inner beast, the biggest counter measure is sticking to your humanity, whenever in the sense of virtue or staying human.

In this regard I've always wondered about Isaac. How the hell has that guy maintained his public persona throughout the years ?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 04, 2019, 08:28:35 am
I bet after a while he just disappeared from the world and produces his new movies throught puppet producers (very probably those officially owning now his old production studio). Plus his jewelry is only called Abraham Jewelry. Even is it's known to be linked to the renown Abraham Isaac producer, if that is even his real name, he just used a back office officially by one of the trusted workers there. Maybe even a shared office, he is here only on the closing time (when neither the cleaning services are present).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 04, 2019, 06:12:40 pm
I bet after a while he just disappeared from the world and produces his new movies throught puppet producers (very probably those officially owning now his old production studio). Plus his jewelry is only called Abraham Jewelry. Even is it's known to be linked to the renown Abraham Isaac producer, if that is even his real name, he just used a back office officially by one of the trusted workers there. Maybe even a shared office, he is here only on the closing time (when neither the cleaning services are present).

Yeah, that sounds like a fair set of logical assumptions to me. Besides, his name on movies could just be a production company using his name at this point, allegedly handed down by a non-public family member (that would be a cover story, I mean).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 05, 2019, 04:06:30 am
I bet after a while he just disappeared from the world and produces his new movies throught puppet producers (very probably those officially owning now his old production studio). Plus his jewelry is only called Abraham Jewelry. Even is it's known to be linked to the renown Abraham Isaac producer, if that is even his real name, he just used a back office officially by one of the trusted workers there. Maybe even a shared office, he is here only on the closing time (when neither the cleaning services are present).

Yeah, that sounds like a fair set of logical assumptions to me. Besides, his name on movies could just be a production company using his name at this point, allegedly handed down by a non-public family member (that would be a cover story, I mean).

He's still alive though, people... see him.

I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, much like you guys comment, but imagine if you saw Brad Pitt in fifty years... as young as he looks now. You'd reasonably go a little batshit.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 05, 2019, 07:01:08 am
He's still alive though, people... see him.

(https://www.thenews.com.pk/assets/uploads/magazine/2017-11-04/241891_4_040628_mag.jpg)

Seriously, who actually? I only know his ghouls and other vampires
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 05, 2019, 06:22:02 pm
Seriously, who actually? I only know his ghouls and other vampires

Maybe no one actually. He could very well just move among kindred circles, though I find that a bit hard to imagine given his seemingly wide influence.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 05, 2019, 09:16:06 pm
It would be cool if the Frickin' Chicken returns in some way.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 05, 2019, 10:31:13 pm
It would be cool if the Frickin' Chicken returns in some way.


It'll most likely be back on a game podcast or something.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 06, 2019, 12:08:39 am
It would be cool if the Frickin' Chicken returns in some way.


It'll most likely be back on a game podcast or something.

I, too, would love to see the return of Frickin' Chicken. It was a hilarious ad. Hell, we could even get a corporate or franchise Frickin' Chicken restaurant in the game. :O
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 06, 2019, 02:19:30 am
I, too, would love to see the return of Frickin' Chicken. It was a hilarious ad. Hell, we could even get a corporate or franchise Frickin' Chicken restaurant in the game. :O

They could even reference Breaking Bad with a "Pollos Hermanos" quest, replacing the latter with Friggin' Chicken.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 06, 2019, 03:36:01 am
I, too, would love to see the return of Frickin' Chicken. It was a hilarious ad. Hell, we could even get a corporate or franchise Frickin' Chicken restaurant in the game. :O

They could even reference Breaking Bad with a "Pollos Hermanos" quest, replacing the latter with Friggin' Chicken.

Oh my gosh! They totally could...instead of meth, have it be blood bag trafficking for Kindred! <3
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 06, 2019, 04:41:50 am
I, too, would love to see the return of Frickin' Chicken. It was a hilarious ad. Hell, we could even get a corporate or franchise Frickin' Chicken restaurant in the game. :O

They could even reference Breaking Bad with a "Pollos Hermanos" quest, replacing the latter with Friggin' Chicken.

Oh my gosh! They totally could...instead of meth, have it be blood bag trafficking for Kindred! <3

Take notes Mitsoda :D !
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 06, 2019, 06:09:33 am
I, too, would love to see the return of Frickin' Chicken. It was a hilarious ad. Hell, we could even get a corporate or franchise Frickin' Chicken restaurant in the game. :O

They could even reference Breaking Bad with a "Pollos Hermanos" quest, replacing the latter with Friggin' Chicken.

Oh my gosh! They totally could...instead of meth, have it be blood bag trafficking for Kindred! <3

Take notes Mitsoda :D !

Lmao hopefully he doesn't read this...or else he'll just steal my Tzimisce penis centipede idea. D:<
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 06, 2019, 05:34:51 pm
I, too, would love to see the return of Frickin' Chicken. It was a hilarious ad. Hell, we could even get a corporate or franchise Frickin' Chicken restaurant in the game. :O
Well its a more welcome Bloodlines 1 reference than naming the Seattle prince Cross.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 06, 2019, 07:51:45 pm
I, too, would love to see the return of Frickin' Chicken. It was a hilarious ad. Hell, we could even get a corporate or franchise Frickin' Chicken restaurant in the game. :O
Well its a more welcome Bloodlines 1 reference than naming the Seattle prince Cross.

Are we sure that him being named "Cross" was actually intended as a reference? I mean, the word "Cross" is associated with vampires in almost all vampire lore, after all. =)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 07, 2019, 01:41:52 am
Well its a more welcome Bloodlines 1 reference than naming the Seattle prince Cross.

The Seattle Prince has a name :O ?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 07, 2019, 02:14:13 am
Well its a more welcome Bloodlines 1 reference than naming the Seattle prince Cross.

The Seattle Prince has a name :O ?

Yeah, so far, four characters' names are known: the lady in red, the lady in green, the stoner curl-haired Thin-Blood, and the Prince.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 07, 2019, 05:42:31 am
Lmao hopefully he doesn't read this...or else he'll just steal my Tzimisce penis centipede idea. D:<

Well, nothing can beat GWAR on body horrors <3
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/scumdog/images/7/74/Cuttlefish_of_cthulhu.png)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 07, 2019, 03:41:16 pm
The Seattle Prince has a name :O ?
According to some previews the Seattle prince goes with the name of "Cross".
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 07, 2019, 03:45:33 pm

Well, nothing can beat GWAR on body horrors <3


He looks like a daemon of Slaanesh from Warhammer 40K O.o
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 07, 2019, 07:40:45 pm

Well, nothing can beat GWAR on body horrors <3


He looks like a daemon of Slaanesh from Warhammer 40K O.o

Let me introduce you GWAR:





https://gwar.bandcamp.com/album/violence-has-arrived

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 07, 2019, 10:38:56 pm

Well, nothing can beat GWAR on body horrors <3


He looks like a daemon of Slaanesh from Warhammer 40K O.o

Let me introduce you GWAR:





https://gwar.bandcamp.com/album/violence-has-arrived

Seems like Slipknot and Warhammer 40K's Slaaneshi daemons had a wretched baby.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 07, 2019, 11:55:35 pm
Seems like Slipknot and Warhammer 40K's Slaaneshi daemons had a wretched baby.

Here's the classier version:

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 08, 2019, 07:48:11 am
I like Lordi, they're cool! :D

Gwar are certainly full of err...personality! :P
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 08, 2019, 02:07:29 pm
A return of Beckett and Jack would probably be possible.
ANd I know that for now, the Sabbat is destabilised in V5 (I don't own the rulebook for now, but someone told me), but maybe they still could introduce some Sabbat members, that have a bit more personality as 99.9 % in Bloodlines 1 (with the exeption of Andrei they were all mindless brutes).

I don't need the Tourette or VV to return, since they weren't among my favorite characters, but I know, they are fan favorites, so at least the Tourette might make an appearance - maybe there is a great opening of a new club of the Asylum franchise in Seattle.

I know, the Nosferatu from L.A. probably won't make an appreance, but maybe a nice funny email from Gary? I will miss his snark for sure.

And I agree, that Yukie could very well make a reappearance.


As for the rest, Mercurio said, that he came around a bit, but with his blood doner gone, he might not even be alive anymore? I like ROmero and would love to see him, but he probably won't have a reason to be in Seattle.

And last, but not least, I guess the surviving Thinbloods could make an appreance. Can you really kill E., Lily and Rosa in Bloodlines? I know, you can kill Julius and send Copper to his doom, but the other three? I thought, you only can blackmail Lily.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 08, 2019, 02:49:06 pm
I like Romero and would love to see him, but he probably won't have a reason to be in Seattle.
Maybe (like Mercurio) he was some business in other cities like in Seattle.

Quote
And last, but not least, I guess the surviving Thinbloods could make an appreance. Can you really kill E., Lily and Rosa in Bloodlines? I know, you can kill Julius and send Copper to his doom, but the other three? I thought, you only can blackmail Lily.
You can kill all of them.
But i can imagine that they ignore this choice.
Only Julius and Cooper deaths are quest revelant but killing E, Lily and/or Rosa is just psychopathic murder.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 08, 2019, 05:11:54 pm
Seems like Slipknot and Warhammer 40K's Slaaneshi daemons had a wretched baby.

A wretched baby abandoned at birth in a republicans private brothel where it had quickly to learn to defend himself from being raped or used as toilet brushes....
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 08, 2019, 05:14:55 pm
Gwar are certainly full of err...personality! :P

And (fake) bodly fluids to drown us with
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 08, 2019, 08:39:20 pm
I like Romero and would love to see him, but he probably won't have a reason to be in Seattle.
Maybe (like Mercurio) he was some business in other cities like in Seattle.

Quote
And last, but not least, I guess the surviving Thinbloods could make an appreance. Can you really kill E., Lily and Rosa in Bloodlines? I know, you can kill Julius and send Copper to his doom, but the other three? I thought, you only can blackmail Lily.
You can kill all of them.
But i can imagine that they ignore this choice.
Only Julius and Cooper deaths are quest revelant but killing E, Lily and/or Rosa is just psychopathic murder.

Wow, I didn't know that. It never occurred to me to try and kill them. It would be like kicking puppies.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 08, 2019, 08:53:17 pm
Wow, I didn't know that. It never occurred to me to try and kill them. It would be like kicking puppies.
Well there are no puppies in game but you can still kill all the dogs. ;)
But i really don´t know if you can kill the cat at Andreis Hollywood Mansion.

From all of the Thinbloods i would choose Rosa. She is the most interessing.
E and Lily are bit bland. Julius could be neat.  In my most of my playthroughs i sent him away but i would prefer if they respect also the decision for killing him.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 08, 2019, 09:07:52 pm
But i really don´t know if you can kill the cat at Andreis Hollywood Mansion.

You can't as it doesn't have a dying animation. Otherwise it would be running around more maps ;)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 08, 2019, 11:26:40 pm
Wow, I didn't know that. It never occurred to me to try and kill them. It would be like kicking puppies.
Well there are no puppies in game but you can still kill all the dogs. ;)
But i really don´t know if you can kill the cat at Andreis Hollywood Mansion.

From all of the Thinbloods i would choose Rosa. She is the most interessing.
E and Lily are bit bland. Julius could be neat.  In my most of my playthroughs i sent him away but i would prefer if they respect also the decision for killing him.

I always kill the dogs.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 08, 2019, 11:52:03 pm
You can kill all of them.But i can imagine that they ignore this choice.Only Julius and Cooper deaths are quest revelant but killing E, Lily and/or Rosa is just psychopathic murder.

Killing Julius and Copper is already pretty fucked up.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 09, 2019, 12:22:25 am
I killed them all on occasion depending on what my character was supposed to be like.  Just say "this is my beach" while talking with E and you are attacked by all. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 02:49:28 am
I killed them all on occasion depending on what my character was supposed to be like.  Just say "this is my beach" while talking with E and you are attacked by all.

But they are all... so nice... and cool.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 09, 2019, 05:16:29 am
And fluffy :3

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FW6Q8Yls8s8/maxresdefault.jpg)

(I just woke up after 5 hours of sleep and no strenght to get back sleeping, please don't mind my withdrawals of lack of tenderness)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 06:18:09 am
As for the rest, Mercurio said, that he came around a bit, but with his blood doner gone, he might not even be alive anymore? I like ROmero and would love to see him, but he probably won't have a reason to be in Seattle.

That's a good point about the person who gives him vitae being gone. However, I believe in Bloodlines 1 he claimed to be about 60 or so, so he would probably be in his mid-70s in Bloodlines 2. He could still be alive, if aged. Or any Kindred could have given him their blood to let him retain his youth and have him serve whomever that is. I don't think Strauss would, if only because he doesn't approve of using ghouls as per his dialog of thinking that Heather Poe is a distraction for the player.

Plenty of other Kindred would likely want a ghoul who has at least 20+ years of service to their kind under his belt. He's not a blabbermouth like Patty and is very capable on his own...except that one time at the beginning of Bloodlines 1 when he let those beach house wusses kick his ass. =p
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 06:29:27 am
(I just woke up after 5 hours of sleep and no strenght to get back sleeping, please don't mind my withdrawals of lack of tenderness)

People see thinbloods way too much as "animals" xD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 09, 2019, 10:28:45 am
(I just woke up after 5 hours of sleep and no strenght to get back sleeping, please don't mind my withdrawals of lack of tenderness)

People see thinbloods way too much as "animals" xD

Honestly I see them more as humans (and since I'm a torrie deep to my heart I must help them)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 09, 2019, 10:58:58 am
As for the rest, Mercurio said, that he came around a bit, but with his blood doner gone, he might not even be alive anymore? I like ROmero and would love to see him, but he probably won't have a reason to be in Seattle.

That's a good point about the person who gives him vitae being gone. However, I believe in Bloodlines 1 he claimed to be about 60 or so, so he would probably be in his mid-70s in Bloodlines 2. He could still be alive, if aged. Or any Kindred could have given him their blood to let him retain his youth and have him serve whomever that is. I don't think Strauss would, if only because he doesn't approve of using ghouls as per his dialog of thinking that Heather Poe is a distraction for the player.

Plenty of other Kindred would likely want a ghoul who has at least 20+ years of service to their kind under his belt. He's not a blabbermouth like Patty and is very capable on his own...except that one time at the beginning of Bloodlines 1 when he let those beach house wusses kick his ass. =p

I could see Mercurio becoming a ghoul of Bertram, since he obviously respects Bertram and Bertram has a need for crafty guys like Mercurio.

About the cat, where is it? Outside Andreis mansion? I played that game about 20 times or more and still find new things. Now I have the image of Andrei cuddling with a cat and it will be hard to take him serious from now on... Or maybe the cat is the Tzimisce and Andrei merely a creation to fool the pc. The possibilities...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 09, 2019, 11:16:32 am
But i really don´t know if you can kill the cat at Andreis Hollywood Mansion.

You can't as it doesn't have a dying animation. Otherwise it would be running around more maps ;)!

Just for the records, when playing antitribu and when the helicopter hunters arrived my companions instead of attacking them tried to kill the cat first. Tried, since the gate is bulletproof, so my first companion was wasting bullets, and the second companion was rockbite, which can only do melee attacks :razz:
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 09, 2019, 11:37:26 am
I could see Mercurio becoming a ghoul of Bertram, since he obviously respects Bertram and Bertram has a need for crafty guys like Mercurio.

Exactly. Even Anarchs would probably do as well, as he isn't hard-core Camarilla. And he knows where to get cool weapons...

Quote
About the cat, where is it? Outside Andreis mansion? I played that game about 20 times or more and still find new things.

Yes, I restored it there in the plus UP. I imagine that Andrei would give it some of the flesh leftovers from his experiments ;)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 09, 2019, 11:45:50 am
Exactly. Even Anarchs would probably do as well, as he isn't hard-core Camarilla. And he knows where to get cool weapons...
There is only problem the player can kill Mercurio or can tell LaCroix that he failed.
I always assumed that will killed as well because he disappered from the Game.

They can totally ignore this but i would prefer if they didn´t do this.

Is my predication right that we can all of Bloodlines 1 Ghouls?
Edit: Expect Vandal of course.
Why on the earth did I forget him of all people?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 09, 2019, 12:03:56 pm
I could see Mercurio becoming a ghoul of Bertram, since he obviously respects Bertram and Bertram has a need for crafty guys like Mercurio.

Exactly. Even Anarchs would probably do as well, as he isn't hard-core Camarilla. And he knows where to get cool weapons...

Quote
About the cat, where is it? Outside Andreis mansion? I played that game about 20 times or more and still find new things.

Yes, I restored it there in the plus UP. I imagine that Andrei would give it some of the flesh leftovers from his experiments ;)!

Ok, I play with the plus UP (great job btw), I will look out for the cat for sure - and I still think, it might be real Andrei and the Andrei we encountered inside and later at Hallowbrook Hotel is a fleshcrafted ghoul or something like that - and now I wanted to write a story about that ...

Mercurio must have been very anti-Lacroix, since he even sells you weapons, when his blood doner has called the blood hunt on you, so I guess, he might really fit in with the Anarchs. But somehow, I would like him see become Bertrams ghouls, since Mercurio seems to hero-worship him, might be some kind of happy end for my favorite ghoul
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 09, 2019, 03:46:19 pm
I really doubt the prince will kill him. More probably he'll reassign him to a more ungrateful assigment as punishment....

I never tried,but you can actually kill him on the beach?!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Sabbat_stalker on May 09, 2019, 03:55:56 pm
Well in the tremere spotlight video you can hear that is the voice actor from Bertram Tung, I doubt they hired him just for this video so perhaps Bertram Tung will make a return.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 09, 2019, 04:19:06 pm


Yes, I restored it there in the plus UP. I imagine that Andrei would give it some of the flesh leftovers from his experiments ;)!

I was going "Flee little kitty, this is NOT a place you want to be hanging around" but then again, every good villain needs a feline companion so maybe it was in no danger. :P
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 09, 2019, 07:14:36 pm
Honestly I'll suggest to move the cat in a partly shadowed corner, so it's more realistic and it's less evident the incompletiness of a model of an animal without animations
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 08:48:32 pm
Well in the tremere spotlight video you can hear that is the voice actor from Bertram Tung, I doubt they hired him just for this video so perhaps Bertram Tung will make a return.

I just listened to it again and you might be right about that being him! If so, then you're right...it would be silly to pay him to voice the video and not voice other stuff. Also, Bertram Tung isn't a character we really "get to know" in Bloodlines 1, so talking to him more could be interesting. He really just gives opinions about clans and takes you to a mission...and that's like 90% or so of his dialog, at least.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 09, 2019, 10:06:34 pm
I would love to see Bertram return. ANd from all the Nosferatu in Bloodlines, he might be the one most inclined to travel, since he seems to live on his own for most of the time.

I just met the cat outside Kings Way, she really seems to be desperate to get in, maybe Andrei really is feeding her leftovers (or maybe she is his ghoul - even a Tzimisce is not immune to a cute animals charme)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 09, 2019, 10:10:23 pm
Honestly I'll suggest to move the cat in a partly shadowed corner, so it's more realistic and it's less evident the incompletiness of a model of an animal without animations.

Sorry, but the cat is not stupid, but meowing into the speaker to get some fresh flesh :)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 10, 2019, 01:24:49 am
I would love to see Bertram return. ANd from all the Nosferatu in Bloodlines, he might be the one most inclined to travel, since he seems to live on his own for most of the time.

If any Nosferatu is to appear in BL2, it has to be Gary.

Oh Gary... how I love thee.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 03:22:59 am
I would love to see Bertram return. ANd from all the Nosferatu in Bloodlines, he might be the one most inclined to travel, since he seems to live on his own for most of the time.

If any Nosferatu is to appear in BL2, it has to be Gary.

Oh Gary... how I love thee.

The L.A. By Night tabletop campaign being GM'd by Jason Carl of White Wolf is supposedly canonical. Jason Carl himself, as well as several guest players, have played the roles of Therese Voerman, Nines Rodriguez, Isaac Abrams, Mitnick, Gary, Imalia...and I think that's it so far. There has been talk about Jeanette (her "sister" calling her a whore, etc. whenever anyone asks about her), and Maximillian Strauss is going to appear at some point, it sounds like, but the players haven't had any dealings with him yet.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Barabbah on May 10, 2019, 03:27:40 am
Honestly I'll suggest to move the cat in a partly shadowed corner, so it's more realistic and it's less evident the incompletiness of a model of an animal without animations.

Sorry, but the cat is not stupid, but meowing into the speaker to get some fresh flesh :)!

Well, in the middle of the walkway, glued to the floor and under the street light looks weird. But obviously it's not important :razz:
Oh, for the records, for a moment I thought you wrote "flesh flesh" like some kind of grotesque cuddle phrase
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 10, 2019, 03:47:51 am
I really doubt the prince will kill him. More probably he'll reassign him to a more ungrateful assigment as punishment....

I never tried,but you can actually kill him on the beach?!

Yes; if you tell the Prince that he screwed up, Mercurio attacks you. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 05:47:08 am
I really doubt the prince will kill him. More probably he'll reassign him to a more ungrateful assigment as punishment....

I never tried,but you can actually kill him on the beach?!

Yes; if you tell the Prince that he screwed up, Mercurio attacks you.

That's...stupid for multiple reasons:
A) You told the truth if you say he screwed up...because he did.
B) He should know that if you single-handedly laid waste to the same guys who kicked his ass, and you are new at all of this, there is no way in hell he'll beat you.
C) The Prince has Dominate, and Mercurio would clearly know this, being his ghoul for 20 years or so. Therefore, it's possible that the Prince may have used Dominate on the player character, in which case the player character would have ZERO fault in revealing the truth to the Prince.

Wow that's dumb,..
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 10, 2019, 09:03:00 am
The L.A. By Night tabletop campaign being GM'd by Jason Carl of White Wolf is supposedly canonical. Jason Carl himself, as well as several guest players, have played the roles of Therese Voerman, Nines Rodriguez, Isaac Abrams, Mitnick, Gary, Imalia...and I think that's it so far.

Some of the Bloodlines characters are mentioned in the canon book "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" which is kind of a summary of what happended between VtM V20 and V5. I remember Beckett (obviously ;), Jack and Nines. Also the New Asylum is mentioned which certainly involves the sisters...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 10, 2019, 09:06:43 am
The Prince has Dominate, and Mercurio would clearly know this, being his ghoul for 20 years or so.

Just a small correction. Although it is often assumed that he is, Mercurio isn't LaCroix's ghoul, but rather the ghoul of some other Camarilla vampire residing at the Venture Tower! He says this about LaCroix: "Only seen him a few times." If he was his personal ghoul he would have seen him regularily over the years...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 10, 2019, 11:18:52 am
I would love to see Bertram return. ANd from all the Nosferatu in Bloodlines, he might be the one most inclined to travel, since he seems to live on his own for most of the time.

If any Nosferatu is to appear in BL2, it has to be Gary.

Oh Gary... how I love thee.

I agree, Gary is the best. He is one of my favorite characters in Bloodlines

Dark Prophet: Does something happen to Gary during that campaign?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 10, 2019, 05:00:56 pm
Dark Prophet: Does something happen to Gary during that campaign?
All Nosferatu expect Brother Kanker have survived Bloodlines 1.
Therefore you can´t kill Bertram, Mitnick, Imalia, Barabus and of course Gary. They can all return in Bloodlines 2.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 11:00:15 pm
The Prince has Dominate, and Mercurio would clearly know this, being his ghoul for 20 years or so.

Just a small correction. Although it is often assumed that he is, Mercurio isn't LaCroix's ghoul, but rather the ghoul of some other Camarilla vampire residing at the Venture Tower! He says this about LaCroix: "Only seen him a few times." If he was his personal ghoul he would have seen him regularily over the years...

Oh, good point! I forgot that line. Good to know! :D

Quote from: fylimar
Dark Prophet: Does something happen to Gary during that campaign?

So far, he's doing great, as are his childer. They have met with the player coterie to discuss some intel deals and the players are considering doing some favors for Mitnick and Imalia. I won't say more for sake of spoilers. ;)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 11, 2019, 01:22:42 am
Therefore you can´t kill Bertram, Mitnick, Imalia, Barabus and of course Gary. They can all return in Bloodlines 2.

And they are all goddamn awesome. HOPE THEY ALL come back for BL2.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 11, 2019, 04:22:28 pm
And they are all goddamn awesome. HOPE THEY ALL come back for BL2.
All of them? This would be very convenient if all of the Los Angeles Nosferatu were in Seattle. ;)
I believe we will see only one of them in Bloodlines 2. But its possible that we communicate with the rest via Email.
My pick would be Bertram the most interessing and still underused Nosferatu in Bloodlines 1.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 05:20:08 pm
And they are all goddamn awesome. HOPE THEY ALL come back for BL2.
All of them? This would be very convenient if all of the Los Angeles Nosferatu were in Seattle. ;)
I believe we will see only one of them in Bloodlines 2. But its possible that we communicate with the rest via Email.
My pick would be Bertram the most interessing and still underused Nosferatu in Bloodlines 1.

Agreed. Bertram tells you about the clans, transports you to the warehouse, acts impressed, and then haves you get him a CD later and thanks you with a point in Computers. Only Barabus has less interactions with the player, and he's not all that interesting. To be fair, though, he's in Chinatown, where most everything in the game feels rushed. Damn I would've loved more time with Yukie, but that's probably the only Chinatown side quest that I think was really decently made.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 11, 2019, 07:42:42 pm
Only Barabus has less interactions with the player, and he's not all that interesting.
Barabus is fine for his role as captured Nosferatu but there is very litte to expand his character.
He is just a minor character and that´s all.
Also his voice actor Jay Gordon (he also voiced Ash, Mitnick and Johnny) hasn´t done any voice work since 2010!
They could replace him but why?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330297/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t18


Quote
Damn I would've loved more time with Yukie, but that's probably the only Chinatown side quest that I think was really decently made.
The other sidequests were also ok. Not from the Gameplay but storywise.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 07:49:44 pm
Only Barabus has less interactions with the player, and he's not all that interesting.
Barabus is fine for his role as captured Nosferatu but there is very litte to expand his character.
He is just a minor character and that´s all.
Also his voice actor Jay Gordon (he also voiced Ash, Mitnick and Johnny) hasn´t done any voice work since 2010!
They could replace him but why?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330297/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t18


Quote
Damn I would've loved more time with Yukie, but that's probably the only Chinatown side quest that I think was really decently made.
The other sidequests were also ok. Not from the Gameplay but storywise.

Storywise, sure, but gameplay-wise, they were lacking compared to the other hubs, in my opinion. Also, while I understand it was near the end of the game, they made the XP rewards insanely high for mundane tasks on those side quests. In my opinion, they should've shaved off a bunch of that XP and sprinkled it across the game earlier on.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 11, 2019, 08:00:03 pm
Storywise, sure, but gameplay-wise, they were lacking compared to the other hubs, in my opinion. Also, while I understand it was near the end of the game, they made the XP rewards insanely high for mundane tasks on those side quests. In my opinion, they should've shaved off a bunch of that XP and sprinkled it across the game earlier on.
Atleast its not a Malachor V (Kotor 2) or DA 2 overall ;)
I agree that Chinatown cleary needed more time but the problem that is just ok.
With more time certain areas like the Lotus Blossum or Glaze would have been better and would allowed more options.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 08:11:51 pm
Storywise, sure, but gameplay-wise, they were lacking compared to the other hubs, in my opinion. Also, while I understand it was near the end of the game, they made the XP rewards insanely high for mundane tasks on those side quests. In my opinion, they should've shaved off a bunch of that XP and sprinkled it across the game earlier on.
Atleast its not a Malachor V (Kotor 2) or DA 2 overall ;)
I agree that Chinatown cleary needed more time but the problem that is just ok.
With more time certain areas like the Lotus Blossum or Glaze would have been better and would allowed more options.

Uggghhhh yeah.

If only Troika had more time! Let's hope that Hardsuit Labs is given enough time to make all the areas in Bloodlines 2 fantastic and well-balanced in terms of story/characters, atmosphere (music/voice acting/sound) and gameplay. <3
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 11, 2019, 08:29:51 pm
If only Troika had more time! Let's hope that Hardsuit Labs is given enough time to make all the areas in Bloodlines 2 fantastic and well-balanced in terms of story/characters, atmosphere (music/voice acting/sound) and gameplay. <3
They work on Bloodlines 2 since 2015.  There should be enough time.
But we never know.
I am very confident that Bloodlines 2 would be fine RPG.

Think about that Bloodlines 2 won´t be a disaster like the last Bioware games after Mass Effect 3.
And it wouldn´t sucked (Pun intended ;) ) like Fallout 76.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 09:41:22 pm
If only Troika had more time! Let's hope that Hardsuit Labs is given enough time to make all the areas in Bloodlines 2 fantastic and well-balanced in terms of story/characters, atmosphere (music/voice acting/sound) and gameplay. <3
They work on Bloodlines 2 since 2015.  There should be enough time.
But we never know.
I am very confident that Bloodlines 2 would be fine RPG.

Think about that Bloodlines 2 won´t be a disaster like the last Bioware games after Mass Effect 3.
And it wouldn´t sucked (Pun intended ;) ) like Fallout 76.

Well, Duke Nukem Forever took a while ("forever" ;D) to come out, as did Aliens Colonial Marines, and those didn't go so well, lol...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 01:13:27 pm
All of them? This would be very convenient if all of the Los Angeles Nosferatu were in Seattle. ;) I believe we will see only one of them in Bloodlines 2. But its possible that we communicate with the rest via Email.
My pick would be Bertram the most interessing and still underused Nosferatu in Bloodlines 1.

He was a complete and utter asshole. Loved that guy.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 12, 2019, 05:05:24 pm
He was a complete and utter asshole. Loved that guy.
Was Bertram really an asshole? Yes he manipulate the player in killing the Cathayan but overall i think he is a likeable character.
Don´t forget Bertram didn´t participate in the Blood Hunt.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 12, 2019, 05:09:02 pm
He was a complete and utter asshole. Loved that guy.
Was Bertram really an asshole? Yes he manipulate the player in killing the Cathayan but overall i think he is a likeable character.
Don´t forget Bertram didn´t participate in the Blood Hunt.

I agree, I don't think, Bertram was an asshole. He was indeed one of the more sympathetic vampires, you've met.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 06:22:42 pm
Was Bertram really an asshole? Yes he manipulate the player in killing the Cathayan but overall i think he is a likeable character. Don´t forget Bertram didn´t participate in the Blood Hunt.

He didn't murder you... so nice of him xD

He's deffinitely not on a Lacroix scale but he does serve his own interests. Would be super glad to see him in BL2 regardless.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 12, 2019, 06:32:50 pm
He's deffinitely not on a Lacroix scale but he does serve his own interests. Would be super glad to see him in BL2 regardless.
Almost every elder Vampire in Bloodlines 1 manipulate the player.
Also it wasn´t personal in Bertram case.

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 07:47:13 pm
He's deffinitely not on a Lacroix scale but he does serve his own interests. Would be super glad to see him in BL2 regardless.
Almost every elder Vampire in Bloodlines 1 manipulate the player.
Also it wasn´t personal in Bertram case.

I don't think Nines intentionally manipulates you. He's a pretty legit guy. He's hardly my favorite character, but I can't fault his ethics when it comes to being upfront with the player. Damsel's a bitch, "but in a good way," as the dialog line goes. She's too hot-headed to scheme and manipulate. She's also fairly young for a Kindred, but I can't picture her being manipulative like...ever. She says what she means and means what she says. Skelter could manipulate, I think, but we don't see him do it. He's around Damsel's age.

Does Strauss manipulate you? I mean just THINKING about him, he SEEMS manipulative, but I'm trying to remember him lying to me, strong-arming me, or otherwise being super shady about something that I NEED to know. He tells you about the gargoyle if you ask, there's no reason for him to think the gargoyle will come up for you until you ask him about it, and...yeah, he's just really private and secretive, but never really jerks you around to my recollection. He's DEFINITELY an "elder" Kindred, being a primogen regent of the Tremere.

Ash is extremely upfront, but he's anything but an elder. Hell, he's probably the youngest non-Thin-Blood Kindred other than the player character.

OH! The Sheriff isn't manipulative! Unless you count him "manipulating" your skeleton into the shape of an ornate pretzel? ;D  Also, Andrei kinda falls in the same camp...except LITERALLY with the skeleton reshaping thing.

Therese...ehhh yeah, I would say she holds you back from your objective not by lying, but sort of "strong-arming" you in terms of not calling off the feud with Bertram unless you do her bidding, so yeah, she's manipulative.

LaCroix, Bertram, VV, Isaac, Jeanette, and Jack...now they are seriously manipulative of the player character.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 12, 2019, 07:57:10 pm
I think, Mitnick isn't really manipulative. Granted, he is very young too and from what we get very loyal to Gary, but I don't think, he will ever be the manipulative type, unlike Gary (who still is my favorite character :))
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 08:09:09 pm
I think, Mitnick isn't really manipulative. Granted, he is very young too and from what we get very loyal to Gary, but I don't think, he will ever be the manipulative type, unlike Gary (who still is my favorite character :))

I agree. Ha, even Imalia isn't manipulative. She can't force you to do anything and you don't require her help. She's just a comedically, perpetually angry person who asks you to do not-nice stuff which you can decline without consequence.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 12, 2019, 08:24:24 pm
I think, Mitnick isn't really manipulative. Granted, he is very young too and from what we get very loyal to Gary, but I don't think, he will ever be the manipulative type, unlike Gary (who still is my favorite character :))

I agree. Ha, even Imalia isn't manipulative. She can't force you to do anything and you don't require her help. She's just a comedically, perpetually angry person who asks you to do not-nice stuff which you can decline without consequence.

Yes, I forgot Imalia,

I have to agree about the others, you've listed too. I was always amazed, that Andrei was so open with you and on the other hand, the beloved Jack was such a manipulative douche. And I was thinking, if you're right about Strauss, because he somehow should be manipulative, but he really isn't. He is very upfront and even, when he don'ttell you stuff (like Tremere stuff to non-Tremere), he explains why.

I don't care about VV, she is so over the top and unbelievable. From the Torri characters I actually feel sorry for Ash, he doesn't have to seem a grip on life when he was still breathing and he is still struggling. And I like Isaac, despite him being so manipulative.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 08:50:49 pm
I think, Mitnick isn't really manipulative. Granted, he is very young too and from what we get very loyal to Gary, but I don't think, he will ever be the manipulative type, unlike Gary (who still is my favorite character :))

I agree. Ha, even Imalia isn't manipulative. She can't force you to do anything and you don't require her help. She's just a comedically, perpetually angry person who asks you to do not-nice stuff which you can decline without consequence.

Yes, I forgot Imalia,

I have to agree about the others, you've listed too. I was always amazed, that Andrei was so open with you and on the other hand, the beloved Jack was such a manipulative douche. And I was thinking, if you're right about Strauss, because he somehow should be manipulative, but he really isn't. He is very upfront and even, when he don'ttell you stuff (like Tremere stuff to non-Tremere), he explains why.

I don't care about VV, she is so over the top and unbelievable. From the Torri characters I actually feel sorry for Ash, he doesn't have to seem a grip on life when he was still breathing and he is still struggling. And I like Isaac, despite him being so manipulative.

I think the difference between Isaac and VV is that Isaac makes it obvious that he is manipulating you, whereas VV tries to deceive you into doing her bidding by acting so fragile. I have no doubt that she could slaughter everyone in the Sin Bin with ease, but she doesn't want to get her hands dirty or - worse yet probably in her opinion - "feel" dirty for having done it. She doesn't need you at all, but acts like she does, and is incredibly flirtatious and claims to adore you. I have a difficult time believing it.

I think Jeanette has more feelings for the player character...and she's just a nympho. =/
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 12, 2019, 09:05:27 pm
I think, Mitnick isn't really manipulative. Granted, he is very young too and from what we get very loyal to Gary, but I don't think, he will ever be the manipulative type, unlike Gary (who still is my favorite character :))

I agree. Ha, even Imalia isn't manipulative. She can't force you to do anything and you don't require her help. She's just a comedically, perpetually angry person who asks you to do not-nice stuff which you can decline without consequence.

Yes, I forgot Imalia,

I have to agree about the others, you've listed too. I was always amazed, that Andrei was so open with you and on the other hand, the beloved Jack was such a manipulative douche. And I was thinking, if you're right about Strauss, because he somehow should be manipulative, but he really isn't. He is very upfront and even, when he don'ttell you stuff (like Tremere stuff to non-Tremere), he explains why.

I don't care about VV, she is so over the top and unbelievable. From the Torri characters I actually feel sorry for Ash, he doesn't have to seem a grip on life when he was still breathing and he is still struggling. And I like Isaac, despite him being so manipulative.

I think the difference between Isaac and VV is that Isaac makes it obvious that he is manipulating you, whereas VV tries to deceive you into doing her bidding by acting so fragile. I have no doubt that she could slaughter everyone in the Sin Bin with ease, but she doesn't want to get her hands dirty or - worse yet probably in her opinion - "feel" dirty for having done it. She doesn't need you at all, but acts like she does, and is incredibly flirtatious and claims to adore you. I have a difficult time believing it.

I think Jeanette has more feelings for the player character...and she's just a nympho. =/

I don't know, Jeanette isn't a favorite of mine too, but I do think, she is a bit more honest about her affection than VV (or Dolly as my Malk keeps calling her, which makes her really mad XD). And yeah, definitive nympho. Still, I can stomach Jeanette a bit more than VV and that says something, since I'm not a fan of either.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 09:20:26 pm
I think, Mitnick isn't really manipulative. Granted, he is very young too and from what we get very loyal to Gary, but I don't think, he will ever be the manipulative type, unlike Gary (who still is my favorite character :))

I agree. Ha, even Imalia isn't manipulative. She can't force you to do anything and you don't require her help. She's just a comedically, perpetually angry person who asks you to do not-nice stuff which you can decline without consequence.

Yes, I forgot Imalia,

I have to agree about the others, you've listed too. I was always amazed, that Andrei was so open with you and on the other hand, the beloved Jack was such a manipulative douche. And I was thinking, if you're right about Strauss, because he somehow should be manipulative, but he really isn't. He is very upfront and even, when he don'ttell you stuff (like Tremere stuff to non-Tremere), he explains why.

I don't care about VV, she is so over the top and unbelievable. From the Torri characters I actually feel sorry for Ash, he doesn't have to seem a grip on life when he was still breathing and he is still struggling. And I like Isaac, despite him being so manipulative.

I think the difference between Isaac and VV is that Isaac makes it obvious that he is manipulating you, whereas VV tries to deceive you into doing her bidding by acting so fragile. I have no doubt that she could slaughter everyone in the Sin Bin with ease, but she doesn't want to get her hands dirty or - worse yet probably in her opinion - "feel" dirty for having done it. She doesn't need you at all, but acts like she does, and is incredibly flirtatious and claims to adore you. I have a difficult time believing it.

I think Jeanette has more feelings for the player character...and she's just a nympho. =/

I don't know, Jeanette isn't a favorite of mine too, but I do think, she is a bit more honest about her affection than VV (or Dolly as my Malk keeps calling her, which makes her really mad XD). And yeah, definitive nympho. Still, I can stomach Jeanette a bit more than VV and that says something, since I'm not a fan of either.

I suppose that as a guy, it's fun to be flirted with, even in a game, and Jeanette is an awesome flirt. VV on the other hand...well, she flirts well, but her flagrant and continual deceit overwhelms my ability to overlook her manipulative efforts. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm happy to be manipulated by Jeanette. XD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 12, 2019, 09:41:28 pm
I think the difference between Isaac and VV is that Isaac makes it obvious that he is manipulating you, whereas VV tries to deceive you into doing her bidding by acting so fragile.

I wouldn't call this manipulation in the first place for both. They openly ask for your help as a sign of respect, what's wrong about that?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 09:55:54 pm
I think the difference between Isaac and VV is that Isaac makes it obvious that he is manipulating you, whereas VV tries to deceive you into doing her bidding by acting so fragile.

I wouldn't call this manipulation in the first place for both. They openly ask for your help as a sign of respect, what's wrong about that?

It's safe to assume that if you do not do LaCroix's bidding at this point in the game by getting the sarcophagus back, he might kill you or severely punish you at best. Isaac would know this, seeing how long he's been around. He asks for your help "as a sign of respect," but will NOT help you unless you help him. This is effectively a life or death situation for your character, but he simply does not care. He wants to use you, and he does. If you don't help, you're dead, so you have to do what Isaac wants. That's manipulation.

With VV, she acts very emotionally distraught about the prospect of a hunter dying, and her entire dialog is just difficult to swallow as believable. You don't rise to the level of owning a club in L.A. as a Kindred without getting your hands really dirty. You don't have to help her, but she puts on a hurt emotional act with bits of flirtation to try to get you to take care of her objectives. I highly doubt her sincerity and think she's manipulating the player by acting so innocent to make him/her pity her situation.

They're both manipulative, but in different ways.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 12, 2019, 10:17:46 pm
I think, Mitnick isn't really manipulative. Granted, he is very young too and from what we get very loyal to Gary, but I don't think, he will ever be the manipulative type, unlike Gary (who still is my favorite character :))

I agree. Ha, even Imalia isn't manipulative. She can't force you to do anything and you don't require her help. She's just a comedically, perpetually angry person who asks you to do not-nice stuff which you can decline without consequence.

Yes, I forgot Imalia,

I have to agree about the others, you've listed too. I was always amazed, that Andrei was so open with you and on the other hand, the beloved Jack was such a manipulative douche. And I was thinking, if you're right about Strauss, because he somehow should be manipulative, but he really isn't. He is very upfront and even, when he don'ttell you stuff (like Tremere stuff to non-Tremere), he explains why.

I don't care about VV, she is so over the top and unbelievable. From the Torri characters I actually feel sorry for Ash, he doesn't have to seem a grip on life when he was still breathing and he is still struggling. And I like Isaac, despite him being so manipulative.

I think the difference between Isaac and VV is that Isaac makes it obvious that he is manipulating you, whereas VV tries to deceive you into doing her bidding by acting so fragile. I have no doubt that she could slaughter everyone in the Sin Bin with ease, but she doesn't want to get her hands dirty or - worse yet probably in her opinion - "feel" dirty for having done it. She doesn't need you at all, but acts like she does, and is incredibly flirtatious and claims to adore you. I have a difficult time believing it.

I think Jeanette has more feelings for the player character...and she's just a nympho. =/

I don't know, Jeanette isn't a favorite of mine too, but I do think, she is a bit more honest about her affection than VV (or Dolly as my Malk keeps calling her, which makes her really mad XD). And yeah, definitive nympho. Still, I can stomach Jeanette a bit more than VV and that says something, since I'm not a fan of either.

I suppose that as a guy, it's fun to be flirted with, even in a game, and Jeanette is an awesome flirt. VV on the other hand...well, she flirts well, but her flagrant and continual deceit overwhelms my ability to overlook her manipulative efforts. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm happy to be manipulated by Jeanette. XD

Hey, I think, even a lot of girls like Jeanette, judging by the amounts of cosplays I have seen over the years. I like Beckett or Strauss more, they have great voice actors (and Gary of course - I love voices, but I don't like very high pitched, girlish voices, probably the reason, I don't like to listen to Jeanette)

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 10:43:41 pm
With VV, she acts very emotionally distraught about the prospect of a hunter dying, and her entire dialog is just difficult to swallow as believable. You don't rise to the level of owning a club in L.A. as a Kindred without getting your hands really dirty. You don't have to help her, but she puts on a hurt emotional act with bits of flirtation to try to get you to take care of her objectives. I highly doubt her sincerity and think she's manipulating the player by acting so innocent to make him/her pity her situation.

They're both manipulative, but in different ways.

The thing about Isaac is that he's transparent, whereas as VV does seem to be a bit more deceptive. In the end though, she does seem to share some sort of gratitude and even fascination if you manage to seduce her.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 11:28:24 pm
With VV, she acts very emotionally distraught about the prospect of a hunter dying, and her entire dialog is just difficult to swallow as believable. You don't rise to the level of owning a club in L.A. as a Kindred without getting your hands really dirty. You don't have to help her, but she puts on a hurt emotional act with bits of flirtation to try to get you to take care of her objectives. I highly doubt her sincerity and think she's manipulating the player by acting so innocent to make him/her pity her situation.

They're both manipulative, but in different ways.

The thing about Isaac is that he's transparent, whereas as VV does seem to be a bit more deceptive. In the end though, she does seem to share some sort of gratitude and even fascination if you manage to seduce her.

Yeah, it's possible that VV is telling the truth. Perhaps I really just don't like her other than her looks? That sounds mean, but she doesn't feel like a "person" so much as the other characters you don't fight seem to me. Like...masquerade aside, imagine just trying to have a conversation with Jeanette or VV. I don't recall VV ever talking about anything interesting. She tells you that line about being an "open book," but if that's true, all the pages are blank. She tells you what she wants you to do and that it's concerning her, and says she really appreciates you when you do what she wants, sending you some affectionate but macabre poetry later.

Jeanette, on the other hand - though selfish - is insane and would at least be good for a laugh in talking to her about any random stuff, thanks to her plays on words, teasing/flirtation, and mischievous attitude.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 13, 2019, 03:06:13 am
Jeanette, on the other hand - though selfish - is insane and would at least be good for a laugh in talking to her about any random stuff, thanks to her plays on words, teasing/flirtation, and mischievous attitude.

VV just seemed to me like blatantly dumb fan service. Her quests really made up for her presentation though, so I always give her a pass.

In terms of charming this motherfucker, no one did it better than Heather... oh my little ghoul.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 13, 2019, 03:37:00 am
Jeanette, on the other hand - though selfish - is insane and would at least be good for a laugh in talking to her about any random stuff, thanks to her plays on words, teasing/flirtation, and mischievous attitude.

VV just seemed to me like blatantly dumb fan service. Her quests really made up for her presentation though, so I always give her a pass.

In terms of charming this motherfucker, no one did it better than Heather... oh my little ghoul.

Heather was great. Hopefully we'll get a new ghoul or ghouls in Bloodlines 2. Depending on the AI, could even get one to accompany you and give 'em a weapon and armor to whoop ass with you. I doubt that, though, but it would be fun.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 13, 2019, 07:15:57 am

Yeah, it's possible that VV is telling the truth. Perhaps I really just don't like her other than her looks? That sounds mean, but she doesn't feel like a "person" so much as the other characters you don't fight seem to me. Like...masquerade aside, imagine just trying to have a conversation with Jeanette or VV. I don't recall VV ever talking about anything interesting. She tells you that line about being an "open book," but if that's true, all the pages are blank.


I think that's because despite baring it all, literally, VV is a very private person. She doesn't like to talk about herself so she presents this flirty stripper (sorry, dancer) persona to deflect any personal questions. If you try to pry (especially as a Malk) she becomes quite upset. She definitely has some baggage there, I imagine whoever got her to open up about it could see a different side to her. It's true she is manipulative, although I think her dislike of bloodshed and especially her concern for David Hatter are genuine.

I admit I like her more than Jeanette. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The crazy nympho schoolgirl thing never really did it for me (but she IS a fun character). Plus I like redheads more, I guess. :P (Heather! <3 She's the best. I wish we had more interactions with her, more story, etc.)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 13, 2019, 10:18:18 am
As a Malk you can call VV Susan and she gets very upset to hear you call her that.
I never had enough patience with either VV or Jeanette to try to look behind their facades though, so I don't know, if there is more than meet the eyes or not (probably there is, I guess?).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 13, 2019, 11:49:25 am
I admit I like her more than Jeanette. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The crazy nympho schoolgirl thing never really did it for me (but she IS a fun character). Plus I like redheads more, I guess. :P (Heather! <3 She's the best. I wish we had more interactions with her, more story, etc.)

Really wish Heather was back but she has way too many fail and absence states. Unless they fully make her survival as canon.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 13, 2019, 11:55:14 am
I admit I like her more than Jeanette. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The crazy nympho schoolgirl thing never really did it for me (but she IS a fun character). Plus I like redheads more, I guess. :P (Heather! <3 She's the best. I wish we had more interactions with her, more story, etc.)

Really wish Heather was back but she has way too many fail and absence states. Unless they fully make her survival as canon.

Does she survive outside the Unofficial Patch? I can't remember whether or not you can tell her to stay inside and having her not get abducted is available in the game without the patch
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 13, 2019, 12:15:09 pm
I admit I like her more than Jeanette. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The crazy nympho schoolgirl thing never really did it for me (but she IS a fun character). Plus I like redheads more, I guess. :P (Heather! <3 She's the best. I wish we had more interactions with her, more story, etc.)

Really wish Heather was back but she has way too many fail and absence states. Unless they fully make her survival as canon.

Does she survive outside the Unofficial Patch? I can't remember whether or not you can tell her to stay inside and having her not get abducted is available in the game without the patch

I don't think so? I always send her away before Hallowbrook, just to be sure. I did send her away very early this playthrough and then decided, I want to side with the Sabbat, since there seems to be new content for that ending with the new patch? So I probably didn't have to send her away this time.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 13, 2019, 12:20:08 pm
I did send her away very early this playthrough and then decided, I want to side with the Sabbat, since there seems to be new content for that ending with the new patch? So I probably didn't have to send her away this time.

In the original game you either set heather free or she get's killed. Also there is little new content when you side with the Sabbat, but there is a lot more if you play the new Sabbat storyline in Clan Quest Mod 4.x, if you like the Sabbat!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 13, 2019, 12:47:16 pm
I did send her away very early this playthrough and then decided, I want to side with the Sabbat, since there seems to be new content for that ending with the new patch? So I probably didn't have to send her away this time.

In the original game you either set heather free or she get's killed. Also there is little new content when you side with the Sabbat, but there is a lot more if you play the new Sabbat storyline in Clan Quest Mod 4.x, if you like the Sabbat!

I'm planing to do that, I heard, there is a lot of new content with CQM. I just want to finish my 'normal' playthrough with your plus patch, because I think, I have to deinstall the patch für CQM (?)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: argikt on May 13, 2019, 02:32:48 pm
I did send her away very early this playthrough and then decided, I want to side with the Sabbat, since there seems to be new content for that ending with the new patch? So I probably didn't have to send her away this time.

In the original game you either set heather free or she get's killed. Also there is little new content when you side with the Sabbat, but there is a lot more if you play the new Sabbat storyline in Clan Quest Mod 4.x, if you like the Sabbat!

I'm planing to do that, I heard, there is a lot of new content with CQM. I just want to finish my 'normal' playthrough with your plus patch, because I think, I have to deinstall the patch für CQM (?)

You don't need to uninstall any mod to play other, they're in different subfolders...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 13, 2019, 04:18:57 pm
I did send her away very early this playthrough and then decided, I want to side with the Sabbat, since there seems to be new content for that ending with the new patch? So I probably didn't have to send her away this time.

In the original game you either set heather free or she get's killed. Also there is little new content when you side with the Sabbat, but there is a lot more if you play the new Sabbat storyline in Clan Quest Mod 4.x, if you like the Sabbat!

I'm planing to do that, I heard, there is a lot of new content with CQM. I just want to finish my 'normal' playthrough with your plus patch, because I think, I have to deinstall the patch für CQM (?)

You don't need to uninstall any mod to play other, they're in different subfolders...

Thanks for the info, that makes it easier.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 13, 2019, 11:05:53 pm
It would be very cool if they bring Robert Thorne back.
Maybe even make him into the US President for obvious Trump jokes?

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 14, 2019, 12:43:01 am
It would be very cool if they bring Robert Thorne back.
Maybe even make him into the US President for obvious Trump jokes?



I thought that part was hilarious in Bloodlines 1, but aren't Trump jokes lazy and boring by now? I don't care what side of the aisle you're on for this, as I think Hillary jokes are lazy at this point as well. Hell, the jokes about the Bush Administration in Bloodlines 1 are some of the least funny jokes in Bloodlines 1 in my opinion. Those jokes are irrelevant now and even though I was alive during that administration, I just don't care or find them the least bit amusing or creative. Leave the lazy, terrible political jokes to SNL.

Such jokes date the game terribly and simply serve as shamelessly attempting to obtain societal approval from a big chunk of the gaming community while trying to anger and alienate the other big chunk of the gaming community.

If you want Bloodlines 2 to make as much money as possible, don't encourage garbage jokes that will make some folks boycott the game on principle. Saying "lulz, fuck those guys, I can enjoy the game myself!" sounds great unless the game is a flop and/or undersells, resulting in a lack of future content or delayed future content.

I don't think Republicans are interested in playing Bloodlines 2 because they want people to shit on Anna Ocasio Cortez, Bernie Sanders, etc., nor do I think that Democrats are interested in playing Bloodlines 2 because it might shit on Trump.

The Robert Thorne joke was great not because it's a joke that involves political candidates, but because that same joke could come out today or ten years from now and still be funny since it's not in reference to a world-wide known entity.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 14, 2019, 02:10:54 am
Maybe even make him into the US President for obvious Trump jokes?

If Mortal Kombat 11 did it, then Bloodlines 2 can sure as shit do it !
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 14, 2019, 09:21:04 am
I thought that part was hilarious in Bloodlines 1, but aren't Trump jokes lazy and boring by now?
I don't care what side of the aisle you're on for this, as I think Hillary jokes are lazy at this point as well.
Well i am on the european side and Trump jokes are still funny. ;)
Edit Also Brexit or European Union jokes

Quote
Hell, the jokes about the Bush Administration in Bloodlines 1 are some of the least funny jokes in Bloodlines 1 in my opinion. Those jokes are irrelevant now and even though I was alive during that administration, I just don't care or find them the least bit amusing or creative. Leave the lazy, terrible political jokes to SNL.
Bloodlines 1 its a product of this time and for 2004 which is the timesetting when Bloodlines 1 took place its still funny.

Quote
Such jokes date the game terribly and simply serve as shamelessly attempting to obtain societal approval from a big chunk of the gaming community while trying to anger and alienate the other big chunk of the gaming community.
If you want Bloodlines 2 to make as much money as possible, don't encourage garbage jokes that will make some folks boycott the game on principle. Saying "lulz, fuck those guys, I can enjoy the game myself!" sounds great unless the game is a flop and/or undersells, resulting in a lack of future content or delayed future content.
Who cares if one side is pissed at something? In my opinion they should make the game and don´t care of the consequences.
Nowadays some people are desperate looking for the dumbest reason not buy a certain product.

Quote
The Robert Thorne joke was great not because it's a joke that involves political candidates, but because that same joke could come out today or ten years from now and still be funny since it's not in reference to a world-wide known entity.
That is incorrect. Robert Thorne is a fictional name but he is/was a Republian candidate.

If Mortal Kombat 11 did it, then Bloodlines 2 can sure as shit do it !
You mean this one?


I think its funny but Haters gonna hate.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 14, 2019, 11:57:07 am
I thought that part was hilarious in Bloodlines 1, but aren't Trump jokes lazy and boring by now?
I don't care what side of the aisle you're on for this, as I think Hillary jokes are lazy at this point as well.
Well i am on the european side and Trump jokes are still funny. ;)
Edit Also Brexit or European Union jokes

Quote
Hell, the jokes about the Bush Administration in Bloodlines 1 are some of the least funny jokes in Bloodlines 1 in my opinion. Those jokes are irrelevant now and even though I was alive during that administration, I just don't care or find them the least bit amusing or creative. Leave the lazy, terrible political jokes to SNL.
Bloodlines 1 its a product of this time and for 2004 which is the timesetting when Bloodlines 1 took place its still funny.

Quote
Such jokes date the game terribly and simply serve as shamelessly attempting to obtain societal approval from a big chunk of the gaming community while trying to anger and alienate the other big chunk of the gaming community.
If you want Bloodlines 2 to make as much money as possible, don't encourage garbage jokes that will make some folks boycott the game on principle. Saying "lulz, fuck those guys, I can enjoy the game myself!" sounds great unless the game is a flop and/or undersells, resulting in a lack of future content or delayed future content.
Who cares if one side is pissed at something? In my opinion they should make the game and don´t care of the consequences.
Nowadays some people are desperate looking for the dumbest reason not buy a certain product.

Quote
The Robert Thorne joke was great not because it's a joke that involves political candidates, but because that same joke could come out today or ten years from now and still be funny since it's not in reference to a world-wide known entity.
That is incorrect. Robert Thorne is a fictional name but he is/was a Republian candidate.

If Mortal Kombat 11 did it, then Bloodlines 2 can sure as shit do it !
You mean this one?


I think its funny but Haters gonna hate.

You DO realize that the "haters" are the people deliberately trying to provoke and alienate others, right? If I walk up to some huge guy just minding his own business trying to eat lunch, then I spit in his food and he proceeds to beat the shit out of me, should I proclaim "haters gonna hate" as to why he was angry? No. I deliberately provoked him in the example.

Despite what the sliver of the gaming community known as "games journalists" will tell you, most people play games to get AWAY from reality and the annoying day-to-day shit. I don't need been-there-done-that low effort comedy making fun of specific irl politicians in my escapism.

Nor do I need the game I'm interested in playing becoming games journalists' article fodder for them to either praise in "presenting an important message" or "missing the opportunity to present a relevant message in the current political climate."

If you don't know what I'm talking about, read about Rage 2's devs being hounded to confess a Trump reference, or the devs of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint being asked if their game is a commentary on something concerning "Ihe current political climate." These are not people who want to have fun, and this does not actually increase sales. I would like Bloodlines 2 to sell well if it is good, and encouraging people who want to escape from real world political jabs to NOT buy the game is not in Bloodlines 2's best interest.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 14, 2019, 01:01:54 pm
You DO realize that the "haters" are the people deliberately trying to provoke and alienate others, right? If I walk up to some huge guy just minding his own business trying to eat lunch, then I spit in his food and he proceeds to beat the shit out of me, should I proclaim "haters gonna hate" as to why he was angry? No. I deliberately provoked him in the example.
It doesn´t matter because some of these people will always hate something.
Just for hating and not valid criticism.
And even if Bloodlines 2 don´t give them material for their hate when they made some stuff up.
One basic fact is that Bloodlines was always political.

Quote
If you don't know what I'm talking about, read about Rage 2's devs being hounded to confess a Trump reference, or the devs of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint being asked if their game is a commentary on something concerning "Ihe current political climate." These are not people who want to have fun, and this does not actually increase sales. I would like Bloodlines 2 to sell well if it is good, and encouraging people who want to escape from real world political jabs to NOT buy the game is not in Bloodlines 2's best interest.
Well then its already too late for Bloodlines 2.


Also have they ever heard of satire?
They don´t have to appreciate it but respect this.
Satire should always moking fun of the powerful and present this in different art forms
and good satirist should make fun of everybody. So not Trump alone but also the Democrates.
This is democracy.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 14, 2019, 11:33:08 pm
You DO realize that the "haters" are the people deliberately trying to provoke and alienate others, right? If I walk up to some huge guy just minding his own business trying to eat lunch, then I spit in his food and he proceeds to beat the shit out of me, should I proclaim "haters gonna hate" as to why he was angry? No. I deliberately provoked him in the example.
It doesn´t matter because some of these people will always hate something.
Just for hating and not valid criticism.
And even if Bloodlines 2 don´t give them material for their hate when they made some stuff up.
One basic fact is that Bloodlines was always political.

Quote
If you don't know what I'm talking about, read about Rage 2's devs being hounded to confess a Trump reference, or the devs of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint being asked if their game is a commentary on something concerning "Ihe current political climate." These are not people who want to have fun, and this does not actually increase sales. I would like Bloodlines 2 to sell well if it is good, and encouraging people who want to escape from real world political jabs to NOT buy the game is not in Bloodlines 2's best interest.
Well then its already too late for Bloodlines 2.


Also have they ever heard of satire?
They don´t have to appreciate it but respect this.
Satire should always moking fun of the powerful and present this in different art forms
and good satirist should make fun of everybody. So not Trump alone but also the Democrates.
This is democracy.

Good luck getting a writer to even-handedly poke fun at both sides of the aisle in the same work of fiction. Granted, the first game did it - if rarely - but with that new lady working on it, I have some severe doubts. I'd much rather there not be dated jokes, but perhaps that's just me.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 15, 2019, 12:42:30 am
You mean this one?


I think its funny but Haters gonna hate.

It's so beautiful. Really, fuck Trump.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 15, 2019, 03:14:21 am
Same thing so many of us said about Oboobie the Inept.  :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 16, 2019, 03:32:12 am
Same thing so many of us said about Oboobie the Inept.  :)

Are you talking about Obama ?

No comparison, son.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 16, 2019, 05:50:57 am
Same thing so many of us said about Oboobie the Inept.  :)

Are you talking about Obama ?

No comparison, son.

This looks like it's about to veer into a not-even-video-game-related direction and not in a positive fashion, either. If we're going to discuss politics, can we at least keep them in the scope of how it will affect video games, if not Bloodlines 2, guys? =)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 16, 2019, 06:36:06 am
Good luck getting a writer to even-handedly poke fun at both sides of the aisle in the same work of fiction. Granted, the first game did it - if rarely - but with that new lady working on it, I have some severe doubts. I'd much rather there not be dated jokes, but perhaps that's just me.

The game doesn't need real world political jokes of any stripe to be fun.  I think in today's twitter rage culture it would be best to keep something that polarizing out of the game as it really could hurt sales, as you said.  There are other ways we can have fun in a game like this.  I want the game to be a success. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 17, 2019, 12:27:30 am
The game doesn't need real world political jokes of any stripe to be fun. I think in today's twitter rage culture it would be best to keep something that polarizing out of the game as it really could hurt sales, as you said.  There are other ways we can have fun in a game like this. I want the game to be a success.

I don't know, there's a great anti-bush joke in Bloodlines. I wouldn't want it cut because some conservatives were about to get triggered.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 19, 2019, 02:13:57 am
Same thing so many of us said about Oboobie the Inept.  :)

Are you talking about Obama ?

No comparison, son.

True, Trump lies all the time; Obama every time plus he accomplished little other then heating the atmosphere with hot air.  Trump isn't a good President by a long shot but Obama was one of the five worst.   Had to answer but, I will not comment on this again.  Two above me is correct. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 03:21:22 am
Relating to BL2 however, I would thoroughly enjoy if Trump was lambasted left and right. We actually indulge in the same faults as others accuse us when we choose to ignore politics in videogames. The only people who complain are the snowflakes who dislike criticisms.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 19, 2019, 04:13:40 am
I am having to bite my tongue after reading some of the last few posts as I am feeling very tempted to jump in, but this type of political discussion ruins the fun of this forum for me so I am gonna zip my lips and say no more and just stand by the last thing I posted in this thread about the political joke issue.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/eKJOm8UsjRjXlVwNlG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 04:49:47 am
Relating to BL2 however, I would thoroughly enjoy if Trump was lambasted left and right. We actually indulge in the same faults as others accuse us when we choose to ignore politics in videogames. The only people who complain are the snowflakes who dislike criticisms.

I play games to escape from reality, as do many people. I do not want Bloodlines 2 to get woke and go broke. Political cartoons are designed to be political and the reader WANTS that. It's like if someone wants coffee so they walk into a Starbucks. And when people buy a video game like "Feminazi Simulator" or "Make America Great Again: The Trump Presidency," then they WANT that a political game.

However, when people buy a generic game or want to go see a generic movie, cramming a bunch of political jokes, especially one-sided ones, can put off a lot of people. You accuse people who don't want that of being snowflakes...but who is the real snowflake? The person annoyed at the forced politicization of EVERYTHING? Or the person who is so insecure that he or she demands that everything have his or her politics forced into it? The Nazis pulled that shit you know: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda

When you start sounding like the Nazis, you done fucked up. =/
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 11:10:52 am
I don't know, there's a great anti-bush joke in Bloodlines. I wouldn't want it cut because some conservatives were about to get triggered.
Exactly.  Nobody have cared about these Bush jokes back then but totay you are not allowed to make fun out of Trump
because well i don´t know.
The USA has still freedom of speech and are not dictatorship.
So yeah Trump jokes should be at the same amount like Bloodlines 1 and there should be jokes on democrats (Is every american democrat a candidate for presidency?)
I would also love some Justin Trudeau jokes.

Maybe my problem is that i am not an american citizen.
Lets face it i really doubt that any americans would care about european politics. So jokes on the EU (there were a few even in Bloodlines 1) or on Brexit are ok
but you can´t make fun out of Trump? Why the double standards?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 03:22:47 pm
I play games to escape from reality, as do many people. I do not want Bloodlines 2 to get woke and go broke. Political cartoons are designed to be political and the reader WANTS that. It's like if someone wants coffee so they walk into a Starbucks. And when people buy a video game like "Feminazi Simulator" or "Make America Great Again: The Trump Presidency," then they WANT that a political game.

But that's the whole point. Someone could say "Hey, I play games to escape from reality. I played Arcanum and loved it, and god help me if this new Bloodlines game tries to get liberal and insults our Commander in Chief" and then bitches because of Velvet Velour's description of the Bush administration.

There's no reason why we should look down on people who choose to speak on important topics, specially when they speak correctly about them. I mean, what other games allow you to choose your own gender pronouns ? This is a goddamn LANDMARK that the game has achieved already (don't know which other has) and it still hasn't even come out. IT'S GOOD that Mitsoda is choosing to make this a political matter and is not giving a single fuck about what the snowflakes think.

However, when people buy a generic game or want to go see a generic movie, cramming a bunch of political jokes, especially one-sided ones, can put off a lot of people. You accuse people who don't want that of being snowflakes...but who is the real snowflake? The person annoyed at the forced politicization of EVERYTHING? Or the person who is so insecure that he or she demands that everything have his or her politics forced into it? The Nazis pulled that shit you know: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda

When you start sounding like the Nazis, you done fucked up. =/

Seriously ? So people who talk about politics in their games are NAZIS now xD ?

Frankly, I'd much rather BL2 be a brilliant broke game if it means it might cost it how true, biting and intelligent it can be about the world we live in.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 19, 2019, 05:24:43 pm
I mean, what other games allow you to choose your own gender pronouns ? This is a goddamn LANDMARK that the game has achieved already (don't know which other has) and it still hasn't even come out.

I really would like to more about this. What are typical gender pronouns in the US? She, He, it? Or they as Bloodlines often used it? Can you imagine Fat Larry calling a player "it" depending on the pronoun? Bloodlines already had seperate lines for males and females, do they now need to add another for people who don't know?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 06:48:51 pm
I play games to escape from reality, as do many people. I do not want Bloodlines 2 to get woke and go broke. Political cartoons are designed to be political and the reader WANTS that. It's like if someone wants coffee so they walk into a Starbucks. And when people buy a video game like "Feminazi Simulator" or "Make America Great Again: The Trump Presidency," then they WANT that a political game.

But that's the whole point. Someone could say "Hey, I play games to escape from reality. I played Arcanum and loved it, and god help me if this new Bloodlines game tries to get liberal and insults our Commander in Chief" and then bitches because of Velvet Velour's description of the Bush administration.

What? In response to my point, you said " But that's the whole point" but it completely ignores the point I made without rebutting it...

Quote
There's no reason why we should look down on people who choose to speak on important topics, specially when they speak correctly about them. I mean, what other games allow you to choose your own gender pronouns ? This is a goddamn LANDMARK that the game has achieved already (don't know which other has) and it still hasn't even come out. IT'S GOOD that Mitsoda is choosing to make this a political matter and is not giving a single fuck about what the snowflakes think.

He doesn't give a fuck about what the snowflakes think? But...you just said he's allowing people to choose their character's sex and gender pronouns. A biological male being unable to "cope" with being called "he" is a snowflake, dude. He very much cares what snowflakes think or he wouldn't be doing this.

However, when people buy a generic game or want to go see a generic movie, cramming a bunch of political jokes, especially one-sided ones, can put off a lot of people. You accuse people who don't want that of being snowflakes...but who is the real snowflake? The person annoyed at the forced politicization of EVERYTHING? Or the person who is so insecure that he or she demands that everything have his or her politics forced into it? The Nazis pulled that shit you know: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda

When you start sounding like the Nazis, you done fucked up. =/

Seriously ? So people who talk about politics in their games are NAZIS now xD ?

Quote
Frankly, I'd much rather BL2 be a brilliant broke game if it means it might cost it how true, biting and intelligent it can be about the world we live in.

That's not what I said. I'm saying that you're hellbent on having your one-sided political message stuffed into the game. You don't care about the game being successful or us getting sequels so long as your politics get force-fed as much as possible into the game to make a statement. I am in shock. You've clearly read studies about brainwashing people into believing things using entertainment and even produced them to me yourself, so you're very familiar with them. Aaaand your takeaway from that is to brainwash people into believing the things YOU want people to believe using entertainment? You don't want political discourse in the game. You don't want the other side's arguments being fairly presented with any data that might support their arguments. You want pure propaganda to influence the beliefs of others to make them believe what you believe.

That is some villain-level shit right there. =/
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 07:11:36 pm
That is some villain-level shit right there. =/
You clearly have overreacted. Trump jokes like Bush jokes before won´t hurt Bloodlines but to mix it up there should democrats and canadian jokes aswell.
You can bet that a GTA 6 or Bully 2 would also make fun out of Trump.  You don´t have to like satire even in games but you should respect this art form.
That the big difference in living in a country with the freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 07:30:25 pm
That is some villain-level shit right there. =/
You clearly have overreacted. Trump jokes like Bush jokes before won´t hurt Bloodlines but to mix it up there should democrats and canadian jokes aswell.
You can bet that a GTA 6 or Bully 2 would also make fun out of Trump.  You don´t have to like satire even in games but you should respect this art form.
That the big difference in living in a country with the freedom of speech.

How about you quote the rest of what I said immediately before that sentence which is my reasoning for that sentence?

Quote
That's not what I said. I'm saying that you're hellbent on having your one-sided political message stuffed into the game. You don't care about the game being successful or us getting sequels so long as your politics get force-fed as much as possible into the game to make a statement. I am in shock. You've clearly read studies about brainwashing people into believing things using entertainment and even produced them to me yourself, so you're very familiar with them. Aaaand your takeaway from that is to brainwash people into believing the things YOU want people to believe using entertainment? You don't want political discourse in the game. You don't want the other side's arguments being fairly presented with any data that might support their arguments. You want pure propaganda to influence the beliefs of others to make them believe what you believe.

He is fully content for Bloodlines 2 to financially tank and never get a sequel so long as it gets filled to the brim with his political opinion, and he has already professed to believing with studies which he himself presented, indicating that the general public garners its beliefs from the entertainment it consumes. He is admitting to a deliberate attempt at brainwashing people by presenting one-sided political opinions. Villain. Level. Shit.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 07:46:41 pm
How about you quote the rest of what I said immediately before that sentence which is my reasoning for that sentence?
Well all i can say this would be european ignorance. ;)

Quote
He is fully content for Bloodlines 2 to financially tank and never get a sequel so long as it gets filled to the brim with his political opinion, and he has already professed to believing with studies which he himself presented, indicating that the general public garners its beliefs from the entertainment it consumes. He is admitting to a deliberate attempt at brainwashing people by presenting one-sided political opinions. Villain. Level. Shit.
Who cares? Yeah really. I don´t know from which country you came from but take it easy.
I doubt that would you care about other world politicians like Angela Merkel, Justin Trudeau, Emmanuel Macron, Marine Le Pen, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Viktor Orban, Jair Bolsonaro or even Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. But Trump seems to be No-Go. Why?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 07:52:45 pm
What? In response to my point, you said " But that's the whole point" but it completely ignores the point I made without rebutting it...

Do you remember that joke for starters ? It's a very little thing but VV is trying to brief you on David Hatter and you have the option of responding as if the guy is writing a script on the Bush Administration. I found it hilarious the first time I read that.

By your argument, we should've axed that line, because it's political and it's likely to get conservative people angry. Now maybe that's okay with you, but I feel that the strength behind every great story comes out when it speaks about real issues, and maybe this is our point of dissagreement but I would never tell Mitsoda not to write controversial things he cares about because some loud people are going to say "I dislike your politics so fuck off with your game".

He doesn't give a fuck about what the snowflakes think? But...you just said he's allowing people to choose their character's sex and gender pronouns. A biological male being unable to "cope" with being called "he" is a snowflake, dude. He very much cares what snowflakes think or he wouldn't be doing this.

But those people aren't snowflakes, they are real people that make specific demands about how they would like to be called. We might just let this point rest in the ground but... I don't consider these people to be snowflakes when they make reasonable demands out of others.

That's not what I said. I'm saying that you're hellbent on having your one-sided political message stuffed into the game. You don't care about the game being successful or us getting sequels so long as your politics get force-fed as much as possible into the game to make a statement. I am in shock. You've clearly read studies about brainwashing people into believing things using entertainment and even produced them to me yourself, so you're very familiar with them. Aaaand your takeaway from that is to brainwash people into believing the things YOU want people to believe using entertainment? You don't want political discourse in the game. You don't want the other side's arguments being fairly presented with any data that might support their arguments. You want pure propaganda to influence the beliefs of others to make them believe what you believe.

I'm not sure you should be that concerned about. The most "woke" game I've ever played in my life was probably DA:I, and that game didn't fail at all.

As for your specific point, Mitsoda could very well be a raging conservative and put as much of that stuff as he wants into his game... I just won't be buying it, and that's my choice. Regardless, the point stands about politics; anyone should be able to write about whatever issue they consider important, regardless of how much someone agrees or dissagrees with said issues. If we're gonna censor politics in videogames because people might get "angry" then we all lose; our stories won't be as interesting nor as profound anymore because we won't be talking about things that are important. Maybe we just dissagree on that approach, and that's fine.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: mdqp on May 19, 2019, 08:53:23 pm
There's no reason why we should look down on people who choose to speak on important topics, specially when they speak correctly about them. I mean, what other games allow you to choose your own gender pronouns ? This is a goddamn LANDMARK that the game has achieved already (don't know which other has) and it still hasn't even come out. IT'S GOOD that Mitsoda is choosing to make this a political matter and is not giving a single fuck about what the snowflakes think.

I know Battletech allows to pick pronouns, "He, She, They" if I get that right. It was released some time ago.

Regardless, considering this a landmark is a bit of a stretch. I'd say of all the things in media, that's really low on the scale, since it generally has 0 impact on the game (we don't even know how much it will be acknowledged in the game, if at all).

I think people making it sound like it's a big deal are actually making things more awkward for everyone, regardless if they praise this or shun this. Once it becomes about politics and identity, you are going to get people riled up. Well, people get mad about everything all the time anyway, I guess.

As for Bloodlines 2, I'd expect everyone will treat you as your chosen sex, and the pronoun will be 100% cosmetic, because I honestly can't imagine everyone asking you about your pronouns before talking to you, and the amount of dialogues where people refer to you in third person are going to be almost or completely non-existant. Well, they could always hand-wave the whole thing, and make everyone telepathically know your preferred pronouns, but that seems a bit silly.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 09:35:13 pm
Do you remember that joke for starters ? It's a very little thing but VV is trying to brief you on David Hatter and you have the option of responding as if the guy is writing a script on the Bush Administration. I found it hilarious the first time I read that.
You mean this one?

VV: "It was about secret societies and creatures that found themselves dealing with inner beasts and persecution by elder monsters... sound reminiscent of something to you?"
Player answer 1: "He's writing a movie about the Bush administration?"
Player answer 2: "They're making another Share Bears movie?"
Player answer 3: "A movie about the game industry? He stole my idea!"
player answer 4: "Oh... he's writing about Kindred."

I agree this was very funny.

These aren´t Bush specific but were also  hilarious.
Cooper: "Yeah, here you go. Uh, now where can I find the head vampire?"
Player: "Can't you figure it out? He's the President of the United States."

Player: "A tactical nuke"
Mercurio: Only a lunatic'd want that kind of ordnance. That's why they got 'em in Washington.

@Wesp
Mercurio 451: [Best thing I've got to offer is a little disposable number that fires rockets. I've only had two before. Not cheap. I'll call in some favors - gonna take time.]
This was the line for the cut rocket launcher?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 09:41:46 pm
What? In response to my point, you said " But that's the whole point" but it completely ignores the point I made without rebutting it...

Do you remember that joke for starters ? It's a very little thing but VV is trying to brief you on David Hatter and you have the option of responding as if the guy is writing a script on the Bush Administration. I found it hilarious the first time I read that.

Now that you mention it, I do recall that part. I played through the game twice just recently (well, only got to late-Chinatown in the second playthrough due to a game-stopping but, but I digress).

Quote
By your argument, we should've axed that line, because it's political and it's likely to get conservative people angry. Now maybe that's okay with you, but I feel that the strength behind every great story comes out when it speaks about real issues, and maybe this is our point of dissagreement but I would never tell Mitsoda not to write controversial things he cares about because some loud people are going to say "I dislike your politics so fuck off with your game".

I think there are like 4 anti-republic jokes in the game, and only 2 of them are about the Bush administration...and those 2 are 1 line each...and the player character makes the jokes about the Bush administration, meaning it's completely optional and you have the choice of saying something else. Of the other 2 I can think of, 1 is generally about the party, being "One time I voted Republican" which you can say to Venus when she asked if you ever did anything really horrible...again, totally optional, and the last is the Republican political candidate running a smear campaign against his Democratic rival.

Only one 1 of the 4 (off the top of my head) isn't optional, and while someone could go the extra mile and say "all Republicans are like this," the game doesn't, and leaves it to the viewer's judgment. Anyone of any political party could do the sleazy stuff the guy did...and it's a pretty hilarious joke about voting "for the candidate who isn't a murderous child pornographer." Totally fictional character and not an obvious reference to anyone in the real world.

So we have 3 dialog options you can not choose without repercussions/missing out, 2 of which were about the Bush Administration, and 1 about a fictional person who happens to be Republican and not being a cheap, real-world reference. If there are any others, I'm forgetting them, but the jokes are largely optional and chosen by the player if at all (other than the one on the radio). I don't consider the head vampire being the president as a political joke in the conversation with Copper. I mean someone could, I guess? If you count that, then there's another optional one that the player can choose with alternatives.

My concern is buying a piece of entertainment with the intent of having fun and meeting cool characters, but instead walking into a digital communist manifesto of sorts. I love Damsel. However, the writers could've make her drone on about how great Communism is and how that Capitalism is the worst. If a character makes one remark that I disagree with like that and moves on, whatever, but that is not how propaganda works. You don't want a couple of coy remarks. You want your political ideologies pushed, and you want Trump "lambasted." Bush wasn't "lambasted" by 2-3 player-choice dialog options in which Bush's name is dropped. You're clearly wanting something far more based on your "lambasted" verbiage and your willingness for the game to fail financially to get "the truth" out.

Worse yet, your interests in the writing for this game are diametrically opposed to virtually everyone here when you say "Frankly, I'd much rather BL2 be a brilliant broke game if it means it might cost it how true, biting and intelligent it can be about the world we live in." We want this game to succeed. We want it to be fun. And we don't need it to be political propaganda. There are lots of nice political debates to watch on YouTube, as well as various presentations and lectures about various political ideologies. If we want to experience them, we can, at our own leisure. What we can't do at our own leisure is get a Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines game at regular intervals. 15+ years is a long-ass time, and asking for something that might ruin our chances for more content for this game (i.e. more clans like Tzimisce, etc.) and for sequels is quite frankly appalling.

Go cheer for the next Call of Duty to put your politics in it...or the next Assassin's Creed or some other damn series whose publisher seems to be suffering from chronic sequel diarrhea.

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He doesn't give a fuck about what the snowflakes think? But...you just said he's allowing people to choose their character's sex and gender pronouns. A biological male being unable to "cope" with being called "he" is a snowflake, dude. He very much cares what snowflakes think or he wouldn't be doing this.

But those people aren't snowflakes, they are real people that make specific demands about how they would like to be called. We might just let this point rest in the ground but... I don't consider these people to be snowflakes when they make reasonable demands out of others.

"Real people." WTF? I never said that trans folks aren't real people or insinuated such. You keep insulting people by calling them snowflakes, though. Trans people who demand that others use made-up pronouns (or even pronouns opposite their sex, etc.) lest they get offended, are objectively snowflakes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(slang) (add the close parentheses manually because for some reason the link won't do it on this site...). So either stop using the term "snowflake" to describe people you don't like, or make your peace with the fact that you are dissing trans people who feel that way when you say that. You can't have it both ways. If one has a preferred pronoun and doesn't demand that I use it and/or doesn't get butt-hurt by it not being used? Not talkin' about those folks. I'm talking about the aforementioned snowflakes making the gender demands and getting butt-hurt, who are snowflakes by the very slang definition you took it from.

Quote
That's not what I said. I'm saying that you're hellbent on having your one-sided political message stuffed into the game. You don't care about the game being successful or us getting sequels so long as your politics get force-fed as much as possible into the game to make a statement. I am in shock. You've clearly read studies about brainwashing people into believing things using entertainment and even produced them to me yourself, so you're very familiar with them. Aaaand your takeaway from that is to brainwash people into believing the things YOU want people to believe using entertainment? You don't want political discourse in the game. You don't want the other side's arguments being fairly presented with any data that might support their arguments. You want pure propaganda to influence the beliefs of others to make them believe what you believe.

I'm not sure you should be that concerned about. The most "woke" game I've ever played in my life was probably DA:I, and that game didn't fail at all.

Is it woke? I suppose Bioware games have chucked so many bisexual characters at me that I've become desensitized to it and no longer even notice. Well, that and the game bored me so badly that I stopped a couple of hours or so after I got the castle/keep. I had a tough time paying attention. As long as that game takes, I wouldn't be surprised if people bought the game before sufficiently repelling wokeness came to light. I mean I played for dozens of hours and have piles of more stuff left to see in the game that I'll never see. I suppose mountains of what I didn't see could be woke. They got my money, but they won't be getting it for the next DA game. Same with ME.

Quote
As for your specific point, Mitsoda could very well be a raging conservative and put as much of that stuff as he wants into his game... I just won't be buying it, and that's my choice. Regardless, the point stands about politics; anyone should be able to write about whatever issue they consider important, regardless of how much someone agrees or dissagrees with said issues. If we're gonna censor politics in videogames because people might get "angry" then we all lose; our stories won't be as interesting nor as profound anymore because we won't be talking about things that are important. Maybe we just dissagree on that approach, and that's fine.

Everyone should be able to, yes. And guess what? It's legal! Yay, First Amendment. However, the question isn't are you able to, but should you. I can walk up to a minority in the street, call him or her a racial slur, followed by "fuck you," then walk off whistling. Guess what? No crime. I'm ABLE to do it. But should I? Hell no. It's great that Mr. Mitsoda is able to write political propaganda for a video game without being incarcerated. However, I think he shouldn't do it as I would like this game to do well so we can get more of them, and for the sequels to be able to do well also. Perhaps everyone will buy into this game, then SHOCKER, it is a political propaganda overload and tons of customers won't buy the third game or DLC for this one, etc.

You seem interested in VtM. Ruin a franchise that you don't like. Or in the far more eloquent words of someone in days of yore: "Don't shit where you eat."

Also, the WoD is arguably one of the worst settings you could ever try to push a Left-leaning/Democrat-style political agenda. Why? Well, for starters, God is real in the WoD, as are many stories from the Bible. Therefore, objective good and evil exists, and God would be the ultimate authority, wiser than any human(s) could dream of being.

And then there's the issue of gun control. Guns are one of the few advantages mankind has against vampires when the sun goes down, so in the World of Darkness, all citizens would be justified in having the right to bear arms to protect themselves against people supernaturally superior to them. Moreover, to level the playing field when in combat, semi-automatic weapons just might not cut it. Therefore, automatic weapons and more bodacious weapons like flamethrowers, grenade launchers, etc. would need legalization as well for self defense.

There are other topics as well that don't cater well to that political leaning, but go with some other setting for your shtick. A world where vampires exist due to a curse from the Judeo-Christian God and where people are objectively inferior to other people who are supernatural predators such that the citizenry needs to be armed with assault weapons isn't the best setting for what you want to do. =p
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 10:11:22 pm
You want your political ideologies pushed, and you want Trump "lambasted." Bush wasn't "lambasted" by 2-3 player-choice dialog options in which Bush's name is dropped. You're clearly wanting something far more based on your "lambasted" verbiage and your willingness for the game to fail financially to get "the truth" out.
Have you ever think about the possibility that Highwayman667 isn´t an US citizen?

Quote
Worse yet, your interests in the writing for this game are diametrically opposed to virtually everyone here when you say "Frankly, I'd much rather BL2 be a brilliant broke game if it means it might cost it how true, biting and intelligent it can be about the world we live in." We want this game to succeed. We want it to be fun. And we don't need it to be political propaganda. There are lots of nice political debates to watch on YouTube, as well as various presentations and lectures about various political ideologies. If we want to experience them, we can, at our own leisure. What we can't do at our own leisure is get a Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines game at regular intervals. 15+ years is a long-ass time, and asking for something that might ruin our chances for more content for this game (i.e. more clans like Tzimisce, etc.) and for sequels is quite frankly appalling.

Go cheer for the next Call of Duty to put your politics in it...or the next Assassin's Creed or some other damn series whose publisher seems to be suffering from chronic sequel diarrhea.
I can only speak for myself but i want that Brian and the others makes the game they want to make and not that they play it safe.
Even if that means that Bloodlines flops hard.

Also this would only concern the US market. No one in Europe will care about this stuff and will still find Trump jokes amusing.
Like Brexit jokes or (very very very unlikely to appear) jokes on FPÖ (The Freedom Party of Austria is a right-wing populist, national-conservative political party in Austria) politicians.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 10:53:37 pm
You want your political ideologies pushed, and you want Trump "lambasted." Bush wasn't "lambasted" by 2-3 player-choice dialog options in which Bush's name is dropped. You're clearly wanting something far more based on your "lambasted" verbiage and your willingness for the game to fail financially to get "the truth" out.
Have you ever think about the possibility that Highwayman667 isn´t an US citizen?

Quote
Worse yet, your interests in the writing for this game are diametrically opposed to virtually everyone here when you say "Frankly, I'd much rather BL2 be a brilliant broke game if it means it might cost it how true, biting and intelligent it can be about the world we live in." We want this game to succeed. We want it to be fun. And we don't need it to be political propaganda. There are lots of nice political debates to watch on YouTube, as well as various presentations and lectures about various political ideologies. If we want to experience them, we can, at our own leisure. What we can't do at our own leisure is get a Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines game at regular intervals. 15+ years is a long-ass time, and asking for something that might ruin our chances for more content for this game (i.e. more clans like Tzimisce, etc.) and for sequels is quite frankly appalling.

Go cheer for the next Call of Duty to put your politics in it...or the next Assassin's Creed or some other damn series whose publisher seems to be suffering from chronic sequel diarrhea.
I can only speak for myself but i want that Brian and the others makes the game they want to make and not that they play it safe.
Even if that means that Bloodlines flops hard.

Also this would only concern the US market. No one in Europe will care about this stuff and will still find Trump jokes amusing.
Like Brexit jokes or (very very very unlikely to appear) jokes on FPÖ (The Freedom Party of Austria is a right-wing populist, national-conservative political party in Austria) politicians.

I don't care where Highwayman is from. And when I first started discussing the politics here, I made it clear that I don't care if it's Trump, Hillary, or anyone else. I'm not wanting a focus on real-world politics for the game, regardless of whether the ideologies are in favor of or against my political leanings. I want the game to be a success and enjoyable without being heavy-handed, lazy political propaganda. I also addressed in my posts that regardless of whether or not someone is in the U.S. or Brexit, even if they don't disagree with the material, propaganda can be incredibly boring drivel. When the focus is put on propaganda, very often the efforts in good story-telling, well-written characters, etc. suffer for it. Just look at all the comic books failing out there where the writers cared more about cramming their politics into the books than making a good comic book.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 20, 2019, 12:16:39 am
Good eye Wilhelm Streicher 19. I am from Venezuela, though I'm currently living in Peru.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 20, 2019, 04:18:30 am
Relating to BL2 however, I would thoroughly enjoy if Trump was lambasted left and right. We actually indulge in the same faults as others accuse us when we choose to ignore politics in videogames. The only people who complain are the snowflakes who dislike criticisms.

I play games to escape from reality, as do many people. I do not want Bloodlines 2 to get woke and go broke. Political cartoons are designed to be political and the reader WANTS that. It's like if someone wants coffee so they walk into a Starbucks. And when people buy a video game like "Feminazi Simulator" or "Make America Great Again: The Trump Presidency," then they WANT that a political game.

However, when people buy a generic game or want to go see a generic movie, cramming a bunch of political jokes, especially one-sided ones, can put off a lot of people. You accuse people who don't want that of being snowflakes...but who is the real snowflake? The person annoyed at the forced politicization of EVERYTHING? Or the person who is so insecure that he or she demands that everything have his or her politics forced into it? The Nazis pulled that shit you know: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda

When you start sounding like the Nazis, you done fucked up. =/

Totally agree. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 20, 2019, 04:20:53 am
I don't know, there's a great anti-bush joke in Bloodlines. I wouldn't want it cut because some conservatives were about to get triggered.
Exactly.  Nobody have cared about these Bush jokes back then but totay you are not allowed to make fun out of Trump
because well i don´t know.
The USA has still freedom of speech and are not dictatorship.
So yeah Trump jokes should be at the same amount like Bloodlines 1 and there should be jokes on democrats (Is every american democrat a candidate for presidency?)
I would also love some Justin Trudeau jokes.

Maybe my problem is that i am not an american citizen.
Lets face it i really doubt that any americans would care about european politics. So jokes on the EU (there were a few even in Bloodlines 1) or on Brexit are ok
but you can´t make fun out of Trump? Why the double standards?

Our (USA) international news coverage and classroom education on same is weak at best.  We wouldn't even understand what the joke was about. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 20, 2019, 04:30:57 am
That is some villain-level shit right there. =/
You clearly have overreacted. Trump jokes like Bush jokes before won´t hurt Bloodlines but to mix it up there should democrats and canadian jokes aswell.
You can bet that a GTA 6 or Bully 2 would also make fun out of Trump.  You don´t have to like satire even in games but you should respect this art form.
That the big difference in living in a country with the freedom of speech.

BL1 had at least one Canadian joke - one of Ash's answers as to where he would run to.  I thought the Bush jokes were funny even if one sided but it was hilarious that LaCroix seemed to be a Clinton clone.  They were trying to be even.  But, at least in the USA, with the current divide and the media dividing into propaganda camps, politics other then vampire politics should be avoided.  The us or them divide really wasn't that serious until the Obama presidency for whatever reasons but it has continuously gotten worse since.  I just think it would hurt sales and the idea is to make money which allows further games to be made.  A game shouldn't commit suicide on itself - there are other, more logical avanues for that sort of statement. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 20, 2019, 08:18:03 am
@Wesp
Mercurio 451: [Best thing I've got to offer is a little disposable number that fires rockets. I've only had two before. Not cheap. I'll call in some favors - gonna take time.]
This was the line for the cut rocket launcher?

Yes, but there isn't even voice-over for it!

And before this thread escalates any more, let's see and wait what Brian Mitsoda will write. As has been shown he didn't include much political stuff in BL1 and I would assume that he won't include much more in Bl2. So let's stop bickering about something we don't even know will happen...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 20, 2019, 08:48:43 am
To go back on topic about recurring characters. Venus could have branched out with her club. Not that I'm especially fond of her, but she gives me money in regular intervals, so that is a good thing XD.

And some of the vendors could have branched out, Trip, Larry, probably not the guy in the Red Spot, he doesn't seem to be the branching out type...

And despite her creepiness, I would like to see Pisha again. Liked her voice actress
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 20, 2019, 08:51:19 am
Good eye Wilhelm Streicher 19. I am from Venezuela, though I'm currently living in Peru.
You have my sympathy. I could only imagine what that means.
I hope everything is ok for you and your family?

Our (USA) international news coverage and classroom education on same is weak at best.  We wouldn't even understand what the joke was about.
Well then you won´t care if a Brexit joke for example is in the game or not. ;)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 20, 2019, 09:03:26 am
Good eye Wilhelm Streicher 19. I am from Venezuela, though I'm currently living in Peru.
You have my sympathy. I could only imagine what that means.
I hope everything is ok for you and your family?

Our (USA) international news coverage and classroom education on same is weak at best.  We wouldn't even understand what the joke was about.
Well then you won´t care if a Brexit joke for example is in the game or not. ;)

To go back on topic about recurring characters. Venus could have branched out with her club. Not that I'm especially fond of her, but she gives me money in regular intervals, so that is a good thing XD.
You can kill Venus for Boris.

Quote
And some of the vendors could have branched out, Trip, Larry, probably not the guy in the Red Spot, he doesn't seem to be the branching out type...
This would be too far-fetched if we see Trip, Larry, Flynn or Tseng of all things in Seattle again. Slater on the other hand i can imagine that would play with his band in Seattle.
But like Venus you can kill all of them expect Trip. Personal i wouldn´t bring them back because they weren´t that iconic in Bloodlines 1.
They were such our typicial merchant.

Quote
And despite her creepiness, I would like to see Pisha again. Liked her voice actress
Again you can also kill Pisha but for her i would make the exception in ignoring her death.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 20, 2019, 12:58:36 pm
And some of the vendors could have branched out, Trip, Larry, probably not the guy in the Red Spot, he doesn't seem to be the branching out type...
This would be too far-fetched if we see Trip, Larry, Flynn or Tseng of all things in Seattle again. Slater on the other hand i can imagine that would play with his band in Seattle.

I was thinking the same thing about Slater. Seattle is a big music scene, or so I hear.

Quote
Quote
And despite her creepiness, I would like to see Pisha again. Liked her voice actress
Again you can also kill Pisha but for her i would make the exception in ignoring her death.

Meh, I always kill her in my playthroughs. She kills every single night. It sucks to be her, but me allowing her to continue to exist is to allow the guaranteed deaths of more humans. I don't care that they're poor or don't have any loved ones to miss them, etc. Murdering random-ish people is wrong and I ain't gonna abide by it.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: mdqp on May 20, 2019, 03:01:05 pm
Meh, I always kill her in my playthroughs. She kills every single night. It sucks to be her, but me allowing her to continue to exist is to allow the guaranteed deaths of more humans. I don't care that they're poor or don't have any loved ones to miss them, etc. Murdering random-ish people is wrong and I ain't gonna abide by it.

But the real question is, do you do her quests first? :^

I think you are right, but the player in me has a hard time letting that sweet, sweet loot go, so I often don't kill her. I guess I should stick to my guns though, and make sure she meets her end the next time.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 20, 2019, 06:08:39 pm
Meh, I always kill her in my playthroughs. She kills every single night. It sucks to be her, but me allowing her to continue to exist is to allow the guaranteed deaths of more humans. I don't care that they're poor or don't have any loved ones to miss them, etc. Murdering random-ish people is wrong and I ain't gonna abide by it.
Well then should also pass on meat ;)
Pisha simply have to eat in order to survive.

Player: "You eat humans? I can't let a monster like you live."
Pisha: "And by killing me, would you take up a crusade against all who are compelled to eat flesh? And then, when that was done, would you kill anyone who was slightly dissimilar from you? This is the logic of dictators and madmen; the root of conflict."
Player: "But you're eating flesh!"
Pisha: "Drinking blood to sustain your death, you are damned, yes? What if, besides the blood of the living, you had to eat pounds of their flesh to maintain that thin façade of life - what would you call it? Twice damned?"
Player: "I don't kill to stay alive."
Pisha: "We drink blood, I eat flesh, kine eat food... but kine think us a monster. Without remorse, they would burn our body twice over to be certain we were destroyed. What is unnatural for some is vital for others."
Player: "I don't understand."
Pisha: "I kill or I rot. For every night I go without it, I wilt. All things must consume life to avoid dying. You and I are no exception."
...
Pisha: "The kine's fate was sealed the moment he entered. Do not waste time debating the morality. If a man walks into a tiger's domain, it may result in his being devoured. So it has."

Yeah i would totally retcon her death so that she can be in Bloodlines 2.
Also Pisha is one of the few characters which would make sense for reappearing in Bloodlines 2. She left LA at the end of the game.
Of course it would be only a little bit far-fetched that Pisha is in Seattle but you can say this to every returning character.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 20, 2019, 07:22:57 pm
Meh, I always kill her in my playthroughs. She kills every single night. It sucks to be her, but me allowing her to continue to exist is to allow the guaranteed deaths of more humans. I don't care that they're poor or don't have any loved ones to miss them, etc. Murdering random-ish people is wrong and I ain't gonna abide by it.
Well then should also pass on meat ;)
Pisha simply have to eat in order to survive.

Player: "You eat humans? I can't let a monster like you live."
Pisha: "And by killing me, would you take up a crusade against all who are compelled to eat flesh? And then, when that was done, would you kill anyone who was slightly dissimilar from you? This is the logic of dictators and madmen; the root of conflict."
Player: "But you're eating flesh!"
Pisha: "Drinking blood to sustain your death, you are damned, yes? What if, besides the blood of the living, you had to eat pounds of their flesh to maintain that thin façade of life - what would you call it? Twice damned?"
Player: "I don't kill to stay alive."
Pisha: "We drink blood, I eat flesh, kine eat food... but kine think us a monster. Without remorse, they would burn our body twice over to be certain we were destroyed. What is unnatural for some is vital for others."
Player: "I don't understand."
Pisha: "I kill or I rot. For every night I go without it, I wilt. All things must consume life to avoid dying. You and I are no exception."
...
Pisha: "The kine's fate was sealed the moment he entered. Do not waste time debating the morality. If a man walks into a tiger's domain, it may result in his being devoured. So it has."

Yeah i would totally retcon her death so that she can be in Bloodlines 2.
Also Pisha is one of the few characters which would make sense for reappearing in Bloodlines 2. She left LA at the end of the game.
Of course it would be only a little bit far-fetched that Pisha is in Seattle but you can say this to every returning character.

I'm not in PETA, so my qualm is with murdering people. I don't care about killing animals unless you're just driving around in a golf cart torching them with a flamethrower to be an asshole.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 20, 2019, 08:45:09 pm
I used to automatically kill Pisha but now I never do.  My character has come to personally believe that he is just as much of a predator as Pisha is and while he doesn't kill nearly as often as she does, he feels that he has little room to get on any moral high horse.  He treats human beings like his own collection of walking Capri Suns after all.  If he didn't, he would die and he doesn't want to die.  Just as she doesn't want to die.  And he knows that should his vampirism somehow shift and evolve to require that he totally drain a human dry each night, he still wouldn't want to die.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 20, 2019, 08:58:54 pm
Meh, I always kill her in my playthroughs. She kills every single night. It sucks to be her, but me allowing her to continue to exist is to allow the guaranteed deaths of more humans. I don't care that they're poor or don't have any loved ones to miss them, etc. Murdering random-ish people is wrong and I ain't gonna abide by it.

But the real question is, do you do her quests first? :^

I think you are right, but the player in me has a hard time letting that sweet, sweet loot go, so I often don't kill her. I guess I should stick to my guns though, and make sure she meets her end the next time.

Sorry, I didn't see your post before, mdqp! You bet your ass I do her quests first! I justify it by saying that I believe I'm saving the world or some shit (I'm not, but my character doesn't know that), and the handful of nights that people will die while I'm getting that sweet loot will justify my delay in her execution. It's not the most moral decision...but better to kill her ass later than never! ;D


And Zephyr, I can see your character's justification. That's good stuff from a roleplaying perspective. Pisha's own justification, however, doesn't satisfy me, but I could see your own character making his/her own justification...as long as it's not a shitty one like Pisha uses. She could at least be like "Yeah, I'm scum but I don't have the ladyballs to kill myself and I like my unlife even if I'm a murderous fiend." (that's sooooo how Pisha talks!) I have a certain respect for someone at least being honest with their screw-ups and douchebaggery).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 20, 2019, 09:25:07 pm
Meh, I always kill her in my playthroughs. She kills every single night. It sucks to be her, but me allowing her to continue to exist is to allow the guaranteed deaths of more humans. I don't care that they're poor or don't have any loved ones to miss them, etc. Murdering random-ish people is wrong and I ain't gonna abide by it.

But the real question is, do you do her quests first? :^

I think you are right, but the player in me has a hard time letting that sweet, sweet loot go, so I often don't kill her. I guess I should stick to my guns though, and make sure she meets her end the next time.

Sorry, I didn't see your post before, mdqp! You bet your ass I do her quests first! I justify it by saying that I believe I'm saving the world or some shit (I'm not, but my character doesn't know that), and the handful of nights that people will die while I'm getting that sweet loot will justify my delay in her execution. It's not the most moral decision...but better to kill her ass later than never! ;D


And Zephyr, I can see your character's justification. That's good stuff from a roleplaying perspective. Pisha's own justification, however, doesn't satisfy me, but I could see your own character making his/her own justification...as long as it's not a shitty one like Pisha uses. She could at least be like "Yeah, I'm scum but I don't have the ladyballs to kill myself and I like my unlife even if I'm a murderous fiend." (that's sooooo how Pisha talks!) I have a certain respect for someone at least being honest with their screw-ups and douchebaggery).

Awww, PinkZephyr.  :D

One thing that I firmly believe about our VtmB character is that he or she is not especially high generation.  Maybe not super mega low either, but low enough to be uniquely powerful for a fledgling of the "Final Nights".  The wiki states that based on the PC's blood pool, our little vampy is 8th generation at least with a very potent lineage. Our little "neonate" (as Strauss and Abrams already call him/her despite his/her youth) is no slouch.  I think that like Andrei, Pisha was able to smell the raw power in the blood of our vampy.  As such, I think she is trying to play it cool while inside her mind she is about to sh** solid gold bricks.  She's scared. This is a performance on her part to try to stay alive. What she is really doing is begging and pleading for her life, behind that calm mask.  And depending on how we choose to have our PCs react, she may be successful or she may fail completely with that performance. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 20, 2019, 09:50:00 pm
I agree with Zephir about justifying to let Pisha live, we are no angels either. Plus our little vampy might be a match for her (and I did kill her a few times), but s/he doesn't know that. Our character is new to this life and there is a considerably older vampire standing before her/him. I think, most newbies would refrain from attacking that vampire, my newbie sure as hell does.
And another reason could just be curiosity. Pisha promises you rare items in exchange for other rare items. I often play scholars, so my vamps don't want to pass the opportunity to get those items and maybe more knowledge because of them
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 20, 2019, 09:59:18 pm
Meh, I always kill her in my playthroughs. She kills every single night. It sucks to be her, but me allowing her to continue to exist is to allow the guaranteed deaths of more humans. I don't care that they're poor or don't have any loved ones to miss them, etc. Murdering random-ish people is wrong and I ain't gonna abide by it.

But the real question is, do you do her quests first? :^

I think you are right, but the player in me has a hard time letting that sweet, sweet loot go, so I often don't kill her. I guess I should stick to my guns though, and make sure she meets her end the next time.

Sorry, I didn't see your post before, mdqp! You bet your ass I do her quests first! I justify it by saying that I believe I'm saving the world or some shit (I'm not, but my character doesn't know that), and the handful of nights that people will die while I'm getting that sweet loot will justify my delay in her execution. It's not the most moral decision...but better to kill her ass later than never! ;D


And Zephyr, I can see your character's justification. That's good stuff from a roleplaying perspective. Pisha's own justification, however, doesn't satisfy me, but I could see your own character making his/her own justification...as long as it's not a shitty one like Pisha uses. She could at least be like "Yeah, I'm scum but I don't have the ladyballs to kill myself and I like my unlife even if I'm a murderous fiend." (that's sooooo how Pisha talks!) I have a certain respect for someone at least being honest with their screw-ups and douchebaggery).

Awww, PinkZephyr.  :D

One thing that I firmly believe about our VtmB character is that he or she is not especially high generation.  Maybe not super mega low either, but low enough to be uniquely powerful for a fledgling of the "Final Nights".  The wiki states that based on the PC's blood pool, our little vampy is 8th generation at least with a very potent lineage. Our little "neonate" (as Strauss and Abrams already call him/her despite his/her youth) is no slouch.  I think that like Andrei, Pisha was able to smell the raw power in the blood of our vampy.  As such, I think she is trying to play it cool while inside her mind she is about to sh** solid gold bricks.  She's scared. This is a performance on her part to try to stay alive. What she is really doing is begging and pleading for her life, behind that calm mask.  And depending on how we choose to have our PCs react, she may be successful or she may fail completely with that performance.

I'm glad it grabbed your attention. I was surprised how striking pink looks against this background, but it makes sense! Aww, imagining that she's terrified of me makes me feel almost bad for smiting her wicked booty. Almost.~ I do wish we got more clarification about the protagonist in the first game's generation and sire. Perhaps it's nothing, or perhaps it's something. If the latter, some well-written follow-up stuff for Bloodlines 2 that enriches the background of the first game while making for interesting new plot points for the second game could be cool. For example, we could come across the grand-sire of the Bloodlines player character in Bloodlines 2. That could be interesting. Hell, could be some twisted scheme in which the grand-sire blood bonded his/her fairly new childe and have it turn the BL1 PC because elder reasons, etc., blah blah. They could do interesting stuff with the plot is what I'm getting at.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 12:18:09 am
The problem with Pisha is that her own existance endangers the existance of vampire societies. She starts eating homeless people and next thing you know the FBI is snooping around for dissapearences. I always kill her, and rarely do I feel bad given how severe Kindred law is. Camarilla law is even worse: You kill humans ? You die. You transmit disease ? You die. You embrace without permission ? You die. You associate with other sects ? You die.

It doesn't mean much to just kill Pisha... after you get her sweet loot of course ;)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 12:31:48 am
The problem with Pisha is that her own existance endangers the existance of vampire societies. She starts eating homeless people and next thing you know the FBI is snooping around for dissapearences. I always kill her, and rarely do I feel bad given how severe Kindred law is. Camarilla law is even worse: You kill humans ? You die. You transmit disease ? You die. You embrace without permission ? You die. You associate with other sects ? You die.

It doesn't mean much to just kill Pisha... after you get her sweet loot of course ;)

What does Camarilla law say about killing a vampire merely for being part of the bloodline they are a part of though?  What Pisha does is part of her bloodline's curse.  She can't choose to make it go away. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 12:43:51 am
The problem with Pisha is that her own existance endangers the existance of vampire societies. She starts eating homeless people and next thing you know the FBI is snooping around for dissapearences. I always kill her, and rarely do I feel bad given how severe Kindred law is. Camarilla law is even worse: You kill humans ? You die. You transmit disease ? You die. You embrace without permission ? You die. You associate with other sects ? You die.

It doesn't mean much to just kill Pisha... after you get her sweet loot of course ;)

What does Camarilla law say about killing a vampire merely for being part of the bloodline they are a part of though?  What Pisha does is part of her bloodline's curse.  She can't choose to make it go away.

Ehhh I dunno. It's unfortunate that she was made into that, but Highwayman's right about it being a Masquerade problem. She says she has to eat fresh flesh each night...meaning 365 kills per year. 366 on leap years! :O   Imagine 365.25 people going missing every year for centuries, wherever she goes. She's killed tens of thousands of people and even if they're homeless, people will notice that shit and it puts Kindred at risk. Killing her protects the Masquerade.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 01:03:45 am
What does Camarilla law say about killing a vampire merely for being part of the bloodline they are a part of though?  What Pisha does is part of her bloodline's curse.  She can't choose to make it go away.

Absolutely true, and I don't really blame her but... what else are we going to do ? Let her eat innocent people for eternity? It's them or her.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 02:40:42 am
Ehhh I dunno. It's unfortunate that she was made into that, but Highwayman's right about it being a Masquerade problem. She says she has to eat fresh flesh each night...meaning 365 kills per year. 366 on leap years! :O   Imagine 365.25 people going missing every year for centuries, wherever she goes. She's killed tens of thousands of people and even if they're homeless, people will notice that shit and it puts Kindred at risk. Killing her protects the Masquerade.

She never stays in one place for long though, so it wouldn't be that many people missing (by her hand) in any one place.  And thousands of people go missing each year in the USA alone anyway.   692,944 were reporting missing in 2010 alone.  I don't think untraceable kills done in private that leave no witnesses really are masquerade violations.  I have never gotten a masquerade violation for killing anybody where nobody else can see us in VtmB.  I have just lost humanity.  And remember, the main reason she wanted you to send Simon Milligan down to her to die is to uphold the Masquerade. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 03:38:08 am
She never stays in one place for long though, so it wouldn't be that many people missing (by her hand) in any one place.  And thousands of people go missing each year in the USA alone anyway.   692,944 were reporting missing in 2010 alone.  I don't think untraceable kills done in private that leave no witnesses really are masquerade violations.  I have never gotten a masquerade violation for killing anybody where nobody else can see us in VtmB.  I have just lost humanity.  And remember, the main reason she wanted you to send Simon Milligan down to her to die is to uphold the Masquerade.

We gotta ask ourselves though: what exactly are the terms of her curse ? Does she need to canibalize kine flesh ? Or can she eat rats whole ? Because if she can perfectly well do with the latter, then she is just an absolutely unredeemable murderer.

Even still, I find that she needs to die. It's a terrible shame how her own curse works but... she's still a danger to humans if she can only eat them to sustain her own life.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 04:41:46 am
Even still, I find that she needs to die. It's a terrible shame how her own curse works but... she's still a danger to humans if she can only eat them to sustain her own life.

Its your choice if you want to play the role of vampire Superman to the human race.  But ultimately all of us Kindred are a danger to humans, plain and simple.

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/v/z/A/7vzAZ/688459-_vampire_superman___the_mandrakk_influenced_anti_matter_ultraman.jpg)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 05:12:37 am
Its your choice if you want to play the role of vampire Superman to the human race.  But ultimately all of us Kindred are a danger to humans, plain and simple.

But Kindred do have a sense of morality. Velvet Velour is not being a vampire superman when she asks you not to kill David Hatter or the innocent people at the Sin Bin. Neither is Nines Rodriguez when he says there's no need to kill kine. In the end, morality towards kine does exist in the realm of kindreds; I don't think it's an unreasonable choice to feel ambiguous about Pisha... .but if anyone cares a bit about humans, then she has to die.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 06:12:00 am
Its your choice if you want to play the role of vampire Superman to the human race.  But ultimately all of us Kindred are a danger to humans, plain and simple.

But Kindred do have a sense of morality. Velvet Velour is not being a vampire superman when she asks you not to kill David Hatter or the innocent people at the Sin Bin. Neither is Nines Rodriguez when he says there's no need to kill kine. In the end, morality towards kine does exist in the realm of kindreds; I don't think it's an unreasonable choice to feel ambiguous about Pisha... .but if anyone cares a bit about humans, then she has to die.

"There's no need to kill" isn't the same as "I am judge, jury and executioner of Pisha" though, don't you think?  Its the opposite of "There's no need to kill". 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 06:24:59 am
Its your choice if you want to play the role of vampire Superman to the human race.  But ultimately all of us Kindred are a danger to humans, plain and simple.

But Kindred do have a sense of morality. Velvet Velour is not being a vampire superman when she asks you not to kill David Hatter or the innocent people at the Sin Bin. Neither is Nines Rodriguez when he says there's no need to kill kine. In the end, morality towards kine does exist in the realm of kindreds; I don't think it's an unreasonable choice to feel ambiguous about Pisha... .but if anyone cares a bit about humans, then she has to die.

"There's no need to kill" isn't the same as "I am judge, jury and executioner of Pisha" though, don't you think?  Its the opposite of "There's no need to kill".

Well, the problem with Camarilla law is that you can kill as many humans as you like whimsically, up to the point at which the Camarilla finally is like "Okay dude, that's too many and you're putting us at risk." Human like has no value to the Camarilla except as cattle, and as long as there are enough to feed on, they don't care if you're murdering every night, so long as you don't cut off their food supply too much or expose Kindred. And they're the only justice system for Kindred, essentially.

So the problem is that Pisha could walk into a room of 20 children and murder all of them just because and not even feed from them or take their flesh...and no one would do anything about it. The justice system of Kindred no longer cares about humans. My character has a high enough humanity that I say that's bullshit and I will take some vigilante justice into my own hands when someone is murdering daily. She's not as evil as the example, but the point remains: she will never be brought to justice by her peers, so I'm having to do it myself.

Technically, however, in the tabletop, the Prince could execute you for killing another Kindred without his permission. So some Kindred guy was going to execute 100 people and you stopped him by taking his head off, you could be put to death. Some justice system. Your only hope of survival if found out would be to convince the Prince that you had to act to save the people and that the way in which the guy was going to kill them was going to violate the masquerade (i.e. claw marks, too many bodies completely drained of blood, too many matching fang marks or blade marks on the bodies or neck attempting to hide bite marks (they don't heal if the person dies), etc.) and hope the Prince is merciful.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 06:43:54 am
"There's no need to kill" isn't the same as "I am judge, jury and executioner of Pisha" though, don't you think?  Its the opposite of "There's no need to kill".

Well if your sexy royalty ventrue doesn't care about humans then it's really a non-issue.

But if we're talking about my silver-tongued toreador then it's a bit more complicated because he's deeply in touch with his humanity, so he is at fault with his own conscience when he lets Pisha kill whoever she wants.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 07:07:05 am
Its your choice if you want to play the role of vampire Superman to the human race.  But ultimately all of us Kindred are a danger to humans, plain and simple.

But Kindred do have a sense of morality. Velvet Velour is not being a vampire superman when she asks you not to kill David Hatter or the innocent people at the Sin Bin. Neither is Nines Rodriguez when he says there's no need to kill kine. In the end, morality towards kine does exist in the realm of kindreds; I don't think it's an unreasonable choice to feel ambiguous about Pisha... .but if anyone cares a bit about humans, then she has to die.

"There's no need to kill" isn't the same as "I am judge, jury and executioner of Pisha" though, don't you think?  Its the opposite of "There's no need to kill".

Well, the problem with Camarilla law is that you can kill as many humans as you like whimsically, up to the point at which the Camarilla finally is like "Okay dude, that's too many and you're putting us at risk." Human like has no value to the Camarilla except as cattle, and as long as there are enough to feed on, they don't care if you're murdering every night, so long as you don't cut off their food supply too much or expose Kindred. And they're the only justice system for Kindred, essentially.

So the problem is that Pisha could walk into a room of 20 children and murder all of them just because and not even feed from them or take their flesh...and no one would do anything about it. The justice system of Kindred no longer cares about humans. My character has a high enough humanity that I say that's bullshit and I will take some vigilante justice into my own hands when someone is murdering daily. She's not as evil as the example, but the point remains: she will never be brought to justice by her peers, so I'm having to do it myself.

Technically, however, in the tabletop, the Prince could execute you for killing another Kindred without his permission. So some Kindred guy was going to execute 100 people and you stopped him by taking his head off, you could be put to death. Some justice system. Your only hope of survival if found out would be to convince the Prince that you had to act to save the people and that the way in which the guy was going to kill them was going to violate the masquerade (i.e. claw marks, too many bodies completely drained of blood, too many matching fang marks or blade marks on the bodies or neck attempting to hide bite marks (they don't heal if the person dies), etc.) and hope the Prince is merciful.

While you have to make your choices for your character and define your outlook for your own game, I am not sure I would consider it "justice" in my game.  Sure, I would be putting down a dangerous predator to save the humans, but "justice" implies a punishment for wanton crimes committed out of malicious intent or at the very least, a punishment for law breaking.  Pisha isn't doing it for the sake of evil, she's doing it to stay alive and she is breaking no Kindred laws.  I mean, when a man-eating lion is put down, is that an example of bringing a lion to justice ?  In my game it would be called "vigilantism" and I have a feeling that should it be discovered that I did that, I might be the one found in violation of Camarilla law.  In real life if a human was going around killing other humans in an effort to save the animals those humans eat, then the cops would be hunting them down as a dangerous serial killer.

"There's no need to kill" isn't the same as "I am judge, jury and executioner of Pisha" though, don't you think?  Its the opposite of "There's no need to kill".

Well if your sexy royalty ventrue doesn't care about humans then it's really a non-issue.

But if we're talking about my silver-tongued toreador then it's a bit more complicated because he's deeply in touch with his humanity, so he is at fault with his own conscience when he lets Pisha kill whoever she wants.

Exactly, we each have to make our choices.  We each have our reasons for slaying or sparing Pisha.  Like Jack, my Ventrue cares about humans to the same extent a human cares about cattle or pets.  Sure if there's "no need to kill" then I won't do it and human beings can certainly love their pets very much. But if its my vampire or them, he will certainly pick himself, which is why he chooses not to destroy Pisha.  She's making the same decision my Ventrue would if he were in her shoes. He just happens not to be, but he could have been. 

Would your Toreador commit suicide if suddenly cursed in a similar fashion?  How about your character, DarkProphet?  Suicide for your character? 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 21, 2019, 07:55:41 am
"There's no need to kill" isn't the same as "I am judge, jury and executioner of Pisha" though, don't you think?  Its the opposite of "There's no need to kill".

Well if your sexy royalty ventrue doesn't care about humans then it's really a non-issue.

But if we're talking about my silver-tongued toreador then it's a bit more complicated because he's deeply in touch with his humanity, so he is at fault with his own conscience when he lets Pisha kill whoever she wants.


Funny, my own Toreador who is deeply in touch with her humanity killed her too in a fit of panic. She was going to walk away (while deeply disturbed) but then she talked about sending the reporter down to her to "wrap up loose ends" and she saw her as this callous monster who leaves bodies in her wake wherever she goes (despite her argument about the Masquerade; my Torrie believes the best way to uphold that is to not kill in the first place). Yes, she IS a bit naive about the whole thing and the irony of killing someone while holding the high moral ground is pretty VtM, IMO, and shows how difficult it is to remain "good" when you're a bloodsucking monster.

But my Tremere did no such thing, much more interested in trading artefacts and arcane knowledge with her. :D
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 08:17:29 am

Funny, my own Toreador who is deeply in touch with her humanity killed her too in a fit of panic. She was going to walk away (while deeply disturbed) but then she talked about sending the reporter down to her to "wrap up loose ends" and she saw her as this callous monster who leaves bodies in her wake wherever she goes (despite her argument about the Masquerade; my Torrie believes the best way to uphold that is to not kill in the first place). Yes, she IS a bit naive about the whole thing and the irony of killing someone while holding the high moral ground is pretty VtM, IMO, and shows how difficult it is to remain "good" when you're a bloodsucking monster.

But my Tremere did no such thing, much more interested in trading artefacts and arcane knowledge with her. :D

And my Ventrue already killed Simon for the sake of the masquerade before he even went down to Pisha.  LOL 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 21, 2019, 09:28:07 am
Well, you did say your Ventrue sees humans as cattle or pets, not killing them if he doesn't have to but having no qualms about it either. My Torrie longs for her human life and tries (vainly) to recapture it by living vicariously through Heather, with whom she (thinks she is) in love and treats as her partner while, of course, the blood bond makes any kind of equal relationship impossible.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 10:28:16 pm
Well, you did say your Ventrue sees humans as cattle or pets, not killing them if he doesn't have to but having no qualms about it either. My Torrie longs for her human life and tries (vainly) to recapture it by living vicariously through Heather, with whom she (thinks she is) in love and treats as her partner while, of course, the blood bond makes any kind of equal relationship impossible.

My characters all just wanna give hugs and eskimo kisses to everyone whilst spreading the magic of friendship...until someone pisses them off, at which point I will obliterate them and pray that their corpses land in comedic ragdoll poses.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 21, 2019, 10:31:19 pm
Human blood sustains vampire's life, vampire's blood heals humans from everything, both need eachother. Isn't that simple?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 10:45:56 pm
Human blood sustains vampire's life, vampire's blood heals humans from everything, both need eachother. Isn't that simple?

Being healed by vampire blood comes at a cost. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 21, 2019, 10:54:28 pm
Human blood sustains vampire's life, vampire's blood heals humans from everything, both need eachother. Isn't that simple?

Being healed by vampire blood comes at a cost.

A lot lesser one rather than from pharmocology.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 10:58:29 pm
Human blood sustains vampire's life, vampire's blood heals humans from everything, both need eachother. Isn't that simple?

Being healed by vampire blood comes at a cost.

A lot lesser one rather than from pharmocology.

Slavery is a high cost compared to hospital bills. Well, sometimes. XD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 21, 2019, 11:02:46 pm
Human blood sustains vampire's life, vampire's blood heals humans from everything, both need eachother. Isn't that simple?

Being healed by vampire blood comes at a cost.

A lot lesser one rather than from pharmocology.

Slavery is a high cost compared to hospital bills. Well, sometimes. XD

Here comes dilemma... blood slavery or chemical slavery?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 11:38:29 pm
Human blood sustains vampire's life, vampire's blood heals humans from everything, both need eachother. Isn't that simple?

Being healed by vampire blood comes at a cost.

A lot lesser one rather than from pharmocology.

Slavery is a high cost compared to hospital bills. Well, sometimes. XD

Here comes dilemma... blood slavery or chemical slavery?

Blood slavery is worse because rehab at least gets the chemicals away from you. All you need is an order from your master to kill someone you love, and you'll do it. The drugs may FEEL like they command you, but your master truly does.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 22, 2019, 04:46:18 am
Would your Toreador commit suicide if suddenly cursed in a similar fashion?  How about your character, DarkProphet?  Suicide for your character?

That's not the issue though. We don't disagree that Pisha wants to live, there's no doubt about that, but if human beings are a matter of concern to kindred, as I think they are to many... then she has to die because she is simply killing them to feed, something almost all kindred don't need to do. Her curse is unsustainable in a world where vampires try to live in peace with humans.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 22, 2019, 05:37:53 am
Would your Toreador commit suicide if suddenly cursed in a similar fashion?  How about your character, DarkProphet?  Suicide for your character?

That's not the issue though. We don't disagree that Pisha wants to live, there's no doubt about that, but if human beings are a matter of concern to kindred, as I think they are to many... then she has to die because she is simply killing them to feed, something almost all kindred don't need to do. Her curse is unsustainable in a world where vampires try to live in peace with humans.

So then would your character commit suicide if your character found his or herself cursed in a similar fashion?

Edit:  Lmao "Kirsten".   No more using speech to text when posting in this forum. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 22, 2019, 06:12:57 am
Its your choice if you want to play the role of vampire Superman to the human race.  But ultimately all of us Kindred are a danger to humans, plain and simple.

But Kindred do have a sense of morality. Velvet Velour is not being a vampire superman when she asks you not to kill David Hatter or the innocent people at the Sin Bin. Neither is Nines Rodriguez when he says there's no need to kill kine. In the end, morality towards kine does exist in the realm of kindreds; I don't think it's an unreasonable choice to feel ambiguous about Pisha... .but if anyone cares a bit about humans, then she has to die.

"There's no need to kill" isn't the same as "I am judge, jury and executioner of Pisha" though, don't you think?  Its the opposite of "There's no need to kill".

---  and, besides that, Pischa is very cool with you - doesn't play the jihad games, etc and tries to uphold the Masquerade. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 22, 2019, 06:18:54 am
So then would your character commit suicide if your character found his or herself Kirsten a similar fashion?

Kirsten xD ?

It's irrelevant. If I was an uncontrollable danger to humanity then I'd have to be killed.

Of course, this is all assuming that Pisha cannot do ANYTHING other than feed on humans and that she obviously can't be "cured" of her own hunger. The goal and intent is not to kill her for shits and giggles, but to protect humanity if possible. Unfortunately, there's nothing she can do about it.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 22, 2019, 08:10:47 am
Would your Toreador commit suicide if suddenly cursed in a similar fashion?  How about your character, DarkProphet?  Suicide for your character?

That's not the issue though. We don't disagree that Pisha wants to live, there's no doubt about that, but if human beings are a matter of concern to kindred, as I think they are to many... then she has to die because she is simply killing them to feed, something almost all kindred don't need to do. Her curse is unsustainable in a world where vampires try to live in peace with humans.

So then would your character commit suicide if your character found his or herself Kirsten a similar fashion?

If I ran out of evildoers to kill, then yes...which means I'd never have to kill myself because there are murderers, rapists, etc. all over the place. Make the world a better place. <3
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 22, 2019, 08:48:34 am
So then would your character commit suicide if your character found his or herself Kirsten a similar fashion?

Kirsten xD ?

It's irrelevant. If I was an uncontrollable danger to humanity then I'd have to be killed.

Of course, this is all assuming that Pisha cannot do ANYTHING other than feed on humans and that she obviously can't be "cured" of her own hunger. The goal and intent is not to kill her for shits and giggles, but to protect humanity if possible. Unfortunately, there's nothing she can do about it.

LOL speech to text, literally the ONE time I ever used in this forum.  lol

I don't really consider my question irrelevant because that's the same question my character asks himself when he decides not to slay her. 

As I had said before, I think that if the Camarilla ever found out that I had killed Pisha for simply being herself, I would find myself being the one one in violation of Camarilla law.  You aren't supposed to murder other vampires.  And by vampire law, killing Pisha for being what she is is murder.  As I mentioned previously, if a human being went around killing other human beings to stop the butchering of animals for meat they would be hunted down by the cops as a dangerous serial killer. 

If I ran out of evildoers to kill, then yes...which means I'd never have to kill myself because there are murderers, rapists, etc. all over the place. Make the world a better place. <3

What if you couldn't always find one? 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 22, 2019, 10:56:33 am
I think that if the Camarilla ever found out that I had killed Pisha for simply being herself, I would find myself being the one one in violation of Camarilla law. 

LaCroix will care about an uninvited cannibal who screws up the masquerade and doesn't belong to any sect? Really?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 22, 2019, 05:16:45 pm
I think that if the Camarilla ever found out that I had killed Pisha for simply being herself, I would find myself being the one one in violation of Camarilla law. 

LaCroix will care about an uninvited cannibal who screws up the masquerade and doesn't belong to any sect? Really?

Whether LaCroix would "care" or not is irrelevant.  He cares about few things other than himself.  I said that think that I would find myself being the one in violation of Camarilla law.  Do you think that I am mistaken about it being against Camarilla law to kill another vampire who has broken no vampire laws? If so then please elucidate.   What I understand is that "Lextalionis is the only circumstance, except when killing an unreleased childe or the duel, where a Kindred may slay one of their kind. It is to be noted that duels to the death may only be fought when challenging for Princedom, or when called in a Conclave."  -The Laws and Rules of the Camarilla, XX  What "Lextalionis" means is to be subject to the Blood Hunt.  There was no Blood Hunt called against Pisha.

But since you brought it up, I will say this.  Its possible that he might look the other way, but that is not the same as not actually being guilty of breaking the law.  Now given that there are key points in the game where LaCroix first hopes that your character gets killed off in the course of duty and then flat out orders a blood hunt on you, a misstep like murdering Pisha would be an excellent excuse for him to get rid of you while saving face with the Anarchs.  It was the intervention of Nines that saved you from LaCroix's headman's "ax" in the first place. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 22, 2019, 06:15:15 pm
Lextalionis is the only circumstance, except when killing an unreleased childe or the duel, where a Kindred may slay one of their kind.[

Ah, the old doddering dustfarts and their six traditions, eh? Then the masquerade is the frist of them, and that Pisha didn't anounce her presence in this particular domain, doesn't have permissions to do anything and moreover violates the very first tradition, she's already a perfect number one sheriff's client.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 22, 2019, 09:19:00 pm
Lextalionis is the only circumstance, except when killing an unreleased childe or the duel, where a Kindred may slay one of their kind.[

Ah, the old doddering dustfarts and their six traditions, eh? Then the masquerade is the frist of them, and that Pisha didn't anounce her presence in this particular domain, doesn't have permissions to do anything and moreover violates the very first tradition, she's already a perfect number one sheriff's client.

I don't know if Pisha announced her presence or not.  She never told my character "I didn't announce my presence to the Prince" and LaCroix never made it my character's business to know who had announced themselves to him.  Nagaraja vampires actually do tend to announce their presences and make themselves useful to the Camarilla or Anarch leaders of the areas they are briefly staying in SO that they will be allowed to stay.  Making nice with the leaders wherever they go is pretty essential to their survival if they intend to live outside of Enoch. They do so by getting rid of wraiths in the area using their necromantic magical expertise, so the likelihood of her having NOT announced herself is pretty darn slim if you ask me.  And I am quite unaware of any point in the game where its revealed to us that Pisha had gone around putting up fliers about her existence around the city. Simon and his crew showed up to the abandoned hospital independent of Pisha being there.  It was their bad luck that they blundered into her temporary lair when they did.   That being said, if she was a perfect number one sheriff's client, then legally, it would be the sheriff's place to deal with it and not our characters'. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 22, 2019, 09:53:00 pm


 Nagaraja vampires actually do tend to announce their presences and make themselves useful to the Camarilla or Anarch leaders of the areas they are briefly staying in SO that they will be allowed to stay.

Then again, considering these traditions it would be an elysium area, but it's not.

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 22, 2019, 10:18:14 pm


 Nagaraja vampires actually do tend to announce their presences and make themselves useful to the Camarilla or Anarch leaders of the areas they are briefly staying in SO that they will be allowed to stay.

Then again, considering these traditions it would be an elysium area, but it's not.

Because the game devs wanted you to be able to make the choice to kill her.  That does not mean that she never announced herself.  The Asylum is an elysium area and for the sake of the story there is a point where the PC is given the choice to attempt to use Domination on Therese.  That doesn't mean it briefly stopped being an elysium area.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 22, 2019, 10:31:58 pm


Because the game devs wanted you to be able to make the choice to kill her. 

I never kill her anyways, she didn't anything bad to me. The only thing I don't like that she screws the situation up and puts responsibilty on your shoulders, cause if you let Milligan flee due to lack of persuasion or whatever, masquerade violation will be on your account, not on hers, WHICH IS UNFAIR! LOL
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 22, 2019, 10:43:06 pm


Because the game devs wanted you to be able to make the choice to kill her. 

I never kill her anyways, she didn't anything bad to me. The only thing I don't like that she screws the situation up and puts responsibilty on your shoulders, cause if you let Milligan flee due to lack of persuasion or whatever, masquerade violation will be on your account, not on hers, WHICH IS UNFAIR! LOL

I agree with you there!  And there isn't an option to dominate him or anything like that? If not there should be the option to dominate or dementate him into silence like with the woman who recognizes you from your former life.  I don't recall because I have been simply killing him myself for so many years that I don't remember what its like to let him go.  lol
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 22, 2019, 10:55:47 pm
And there isn't an option to dominate him or anything like that?

There're a lot of options, well, not a lot but enough. Something about 5-7 intimidation to take his drivers licence and tell him something like "keep your mouth shut or I'll find you everywhere", if you're Malk you can dementate him "go catch the moon" or something like that, dominate works too if I remember right.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 22, 2019, 11:58:07 pm
And there isn't an option to dominate him or anything like that?

There're a lot of options, well, not a lot but enough. Something about 5-7 intimidation to take his drivers licence and tell him something like "keep your mouth shut or I'll find you everywhere", if you're Malk you can dementate him "go catch the moon" or something like that, dominate works too if I remember right.

Yeah, you can dominate him if you are Ventrue. Tremere can't because their version of Dominate in Bloodlines 1's Plus Patch only permits first level Dominate dialog options. Anything higher than that is exclusive to Ventrue.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on May 23, 2019, 12:27:15 am


Because the game devs wanted you to be able to make the choice to kill her. 

I never kill her anyways, she didn't anything bad to me. The only thing I don't like that she screws the situation up and puts responsibilty on your shoulders, cause if you let Milligan flee due to lack of persuasion or whatever, masquerade violation will be on your account, not on hers, WHICH IS UNFAIR! LOL

I agree with you there!  And there isn't an option to dominate him or anything like that? If mot there should be the option to dominate or dementate him into silence like with the woman who recognizes you from your former life.  I don't recall because I have been simply killing him myself for so many years that I don't remember what its like to let him go.  lol

Too bad the game doesn't allow you to make him a ghoul. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 23, 2019, 12:56:20 am


Because the game devs wanted you to be able to make the choice to kill her. 

I never kill her anyways, she didn't anything bad to me. The only thing I don't like that she screws the situation up and puts responsibilty on your shoulders, cause if you let Milligan flee due to lack of persuasion or whatever, masquerade violation will be on your account, not on hers, WHICH IS UNFAIR! LOL

I agree with you there!  And there isn't an option to dominate him or anything like that? If mot there should be the option to dominate or dementate him into silence like with the woman who recognizes you from your former life.  I don't recall because I have been simply killing him myself for so many years that I don't remember what its like to let him go.  lol

Too bad the game doesn't allow you to make him a ghoul.

Now that would be badass. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 23, 2019, 01:46:51 am


Too bad the game doesn't allow you to make him a ghoul.

I'd better make a ghoul from Lu Fang rather than from this one. lol
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 23, 2019, 05:16:52 am
I don't really consider my question irrelevant because that's the same question my character asks himself when he decides not to slay her.

And maybe that's fine for your character because he doesn't seem to be concerned about humans. However, if the Camarilla or the Anarchs (only two likely candidates) care in any way for kine... then the question doesn't really matter because your character or mine are not the ones getting cannibalized.

As I had said before, I think that if the Camarilla ever found out that I had killed Pisha for simply being herself, I would find myself being the one one in violation of Camarilla law. You aren't supposed to murder other vampires.  And by vampire law, killing Pisha for being what she is is murder.

I don't know about this. Camarilla law is pretty severe; final death seems to be the sentence for most crimes. There are no vampire prisons to my knowledge, so if you embrace ilegally, kill people for sport or break the masquerade too often then you simply get the Sheriff's sword (in Lacroix's case). We might discuss the difference between murdering and executing but... kindred don't really care much about "unlife".

As I mentioned previously, if a human being went around killing other human beings to stop the butchering of animals for meat they would be hunted down by the cops as a dangerous serial killer.

But humans are OBVIOUSLY NOT cows xD... we might make analogies about their relationship to the kindred, sure... but humans are self-determined living beings with some degree of free will and the capacity for great amounts of emotional and physical suffering. It's obviously a bigger, more terrifying thing to kill a human than it is to kill a cow. And it is quite the gargantuan horror to kill hundreds of humans every year.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 23, 2019, 05:44:15 am
But humans are OBVIOUSLY NOT cows xD... we might make analogies about their relationship to the kindred, sure... but humans are self-determined living beings with some degree of free will and the capacity for great amounts of emotional and physical suffering. It's obviously a bigger, more terrifying thing to kill a human than it is to kill a cow. And it is quite the gargantuan horror to kill hundreds of humans every year.

Its the circle of life and killing a vampire to save the lives of a food source is murder even if that food source is sentient.  Camarilla law is pretty clear about when its OK to slay another vampire and none of those conditions are met when our character is given the chance to kill Pisha.  Absolutely positively none.  1. A blood hunt has not been called on her.  2. She is not your unreleased childe and 3. You are not dueling her to the death with the go ahead from a Camarilla Conclave.  She is not a prince that you are challenging.  Regardless of your motives and the righteousness you feel about it, you HAVE committed what would be seen as a murder and a crime in the eyes of the Camarilla.  Full stop.  And its a murder your character winds up keeping quiet about.  And even if you think that Pisha has broken Camarilla law (there is no evidence that she actually has) its not your place to dish out her punishment in the eyes of the Camarilla. 

I guess what it boils down to is do our vampire PCs obey Camarilla law or not?  Mine doesn't necessarily do so but he still doesn't feel that it is proper to kill Pisha.  As I have said before, we all have to make our own choices.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 23, 2019, 06:25:17 am
But humans are OBVIOUSLY NOT cows xD... we might make analogies about their relationship to the kindred, sure... but humans are self-determined living beings with some degree of free will and the capacity for great amounts of emotional and physical suffering. It's obviously a bigger, more terrifying thing to kill a human than it is to kill a cow. And it is quite the gargantuan horror to kill hundreds of humans every year.

Its the circle of life and killing a vampire to save the lives of a food source is murder even if that food source is sentient.  Camarilla law is pretty clear about when its OK to slay another vampire and none of those conditions are met when our character is given the chance to kill Pisha.  Absolutely positively none.  1. A blood hunt has not been called on her.  2. She is not your unreleased childe and 3. You are not dueling her to the death with the go ahead from a Camarilla Conclave.  She is not a prince that you are challenging.  Regardless of your motives and the righteousness you feel about it, you HAVE committed what would be seen as a murder and a crime in the eyes of the Camarilla.  Full stop.  And its a murder your character winds up keeping quiet about.  And even if you think that Pisha has broken Camarilla law (there is no evidence that she actually has) its not your place to dish out her punishment in the eyes of the Camarilla. 

I guess what it boils down to is do our vampire PCs obey Camarilla law or not?  Mine doesn't necessarily do so but he still doesn't feel that it is proper to kill Pisha.  As I have said before, we all have to make our own choices.

Highwayman, I agree with your point on a moral level. However, Zephyr is correct about the Camarilla laws. This is why I often don't like the Camarilla. Their "justice" isn't just. Kindred have rights and humans do not, according to Camarilla law. Bloodlines 1 is a great game, but it doesn't really show you just how many flaws there are with the Camarilla. They do a lot of good, but they're also pretty awful in other ways.

Heck, you even have to follow the Prince's orders if you're one of them. I'm not just talking about being a newbie an errand boy/girl for the Prince like in Bloodlines 1. You could prove yourself an asset to the Camarilla and become a citizen under it, doing your own thing for a decade without upsetting anyone. Then one day, the Prince commands you to murder ten harmless mentally ill humans and he tells you they've done nothing wrong to anyone and aren't endangering the Masquerade. Hell, they don't even know about Kindred. When you ask him "Why?" He just smiles and tells you "It would amuse me."

If you obey, you get to keep unliving. If you don't obey...well, you've just disobeyed a direct order from your Prince. That is grounds for a Blood Hunt to be called on you, and now everyone in the city is accountable to hunt you down and kill you...not just killing you, but with the encouragement of Diablerie. Yes, Diablerie is legal on the target of a Blood Hunt. So you don't just die but your soul is swallowed as well if whomever takes you out wishes to do that. And why is this happening to you, a loyal follower in the Camarilla for years? Because you disagreed with a cruel, whimsical order from the Prince to murder the innocent.

One might then say "Oh, but the Camarilla has high standards for becoming a Prince so you would never get a Tyrant and-" BULLSHIT. Anyone wanna know what the requirement is to become Prince per Camarilla law? Go somewhere that doesn't have a Prince. Send someone out (your "herald") to let everyone know that you have "declared praxis" (you are declaring that you are the Prince). That's it. All you have to do now is hold onto your claim. So you could walk into a small city that has ten independent vampires in it, declare yourself the Prince, and now per Camarilla law, you run the city unless someone can "dethrone" you and become Prince in your place.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 23, 2019, 06:42:02 am
Highwayman, I agree with your point on a moral level. However, Zephyr is correct about the Camarilla laws. This is why I often don't like the Camarilla. Their "justice" isn't just. Kindred have rights and humans do not, according to Camarilla law. Bloodlines 1 is a great game, but it doesn't really show you just how many flaws there are with the Camarilla. They do a lot of good, but they're also pretty awful in other ways.

Interesting. Might just have to go Anarch on BL2 ? So many options !

I guess what it boils down to is do our vampire PCs obey Camarilla law or not?

Uhm, no. Pisha is horrible... she needs to die xD...

DarkProphet might be correct about Camarilla Law though, so I'll just keep to the morality argument.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 23, 2019, 08:29:04 am
Uhm, no. Pisha is horrible... she needs to die xD...

DarkProphet might be correct about Camarilla Law though, so I'll just keep to the morality argument.

"DarkProphet might be correct"  aka *I* might be correct, right?  LOL

Anyway, the morality argument is fine.  There is nothing I can say about that!  lol 

My Ventrue Victor simply has a different code of ethics than your vampire does.  And that's OK.  We each get to play the game as we see fit.  :D
As for siding with the Camarilla vs the Anarchs, my Ventrue who spares Pisha and looks upon humans as cattle and pets usually ends up siding with the Anarchs.  My Tremere Bryan is the one that sides with the Camarilla via the Strauss route.  Bryan also spares Pisha, but not because he sees humans as cattle and pets.  Its because like himself, Pisha is a mage vampire and a seeker of knowledge and arcane artifacts and he respects the work that she does gathering these things. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 23, 2019, 08:44:43 am
So you could walk into a small city that has ten independent vampires in it, declare yourself the Prince, and now per Camarilla law, you run the city unless someone can "dethrone" you and become Prince in your place.

This sounds pretty much like the Anarchs do it with their Barons, so there is less difference as I though. I always go solo or with the Anarchs anyway...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 23, 2019, 11:02:53 am
I always go solo or with the Anarchs anyway...

Heh, usually the same, one time ended with Schtrauss but... he's rather okay but... he's like stuck in early middle ages, if he would be more progressive and scientific...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 23, 2019, 01:01:08 pm
So you could walk into a small city that has ten independent vampires in it, declare yourself the Prince, and now per Camarilla law, you run the city unless someone can "dethrone" you and become Prince in your place.

This sounds pretty much like the Anarchs do it with their Barons, so there is less difference as I though. I always go solo or with the Anarchs anyway...

I need to look into that, but I think you're right. However, the big difference between Camarilla and Anarchs here is that Barons don't have the legal authority to declare Blood Hunts or even to order anyone to do anything. If your Baron asks you to fight for him/her, you can say "no." The Baron acts as a Prince but does not have the ability to enforce his/her will through executions and law. He/She needs some serious Charisma, lol.  https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Baron_(VTM)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 23, 2019, 04:44:54 pm
So you could walk into a small city that has ten independent vampires in it, declare yourself the Prince, and now per Camarilla law, you run the city unless someone can "dethrone" you and become Prince in your place.

This sounds pretty much like the Anarchs do it with their Barons, so there is less difference as I though. I always go solo or with the Anarchs anyway...

I need to look into that, but I think you're right. However, the big difference between Camarilla and Anarchs here is that Barons don't have the legal authority to declare Blood Hunts or even to order anyone to do anything. If your Baron asks you to fight for him/her, you can say "no." The Baron acts as a Prince but does not have the ability to enforce his/her will through executions and law. He/She needs some serious Charisma, lol.  https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Baron_(VTM)

Or if you're name is Therese Voerman, you hire hit men to try to blow away the one who disappoints you.  :D
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Pumma on May 23, 2019, 06:43:24 pm
In fact: 'The Camarilla has no set policy for succession and will usually recognize the most powerful vampire who wants to claim the title of prince, although in certain cases (such as Tara of San Diego or the Lasombra elder Giangaleazzo), the Camarilla takes an active hand in the installation of a city's ruler.'

I also read somewhere that the Primogens elect the Prince but I suppose that this could be a rare case. Most probably the Camarilla recognizes the political power of the would be Prince not the combat strength like it is with the Anarch Barons. Nevertheless some similarities the Camarilla and the Anarchs are quite different.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 23, 2019, 10:43:50 pm
So you could walk into a small city that has ten independent vampires in it, declare yourself the Prince, and now per Camarilla law, you run the city unless someone can "dethrone" you and become Prince in your place.

This sounds pretty much like the Anarchs do it with their Barons, so there is less difference as I though. I always go solo or with the Anarchs anyway...

I need to look into that, but I think you're right. However, the big difference between Camarilla and Anarchs here is that Barons don't have the legal authority to declare Blood Hunts or even to order anyone to do anything. If your Baron asks you to fight for him/her, you can say "no." The Baron acts as a Prince but does not have the ability to enforce his/her will through executions and law. He/She needs some serious Charisma, lol.  https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Baron_(VTM)

Or if you're name is Therese Voerman, you hire hit men to try to blow away the one who disappoints you.  :D

Haha, this is true. I mean "technically" if they succeed, no one will no the wiser!

But yeah, Bloodlines does a good job of introducing people into the World of Darkness, but I think extra reading and a little tabletop viewing is needed to learn some stuff that Bloodlines doesn't fully reveal to us: like the Camarilla not just being "uncool" of "stuffy," but genuinely pretty twisted when it comes to the rights of humans...which is to say they're virtually non-existent for Camarilla law. The only time they're going to care if you kill a human is if you violated the Masquerade/attracted Hunters by doing it, or if it was someone important to another Kindred of high standing...like killing a Primogen's ghoul, killing the Prince's great, great, great granddaughter, killing the mayor of a city whom the Camarilla was manipulating or had deals with (posing as humans if he/she isn't a ghoul, of course), and so forth.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 23, 2019, 11:39:26 pm
But yeah, Bloodlines does a good job of introducing people into the World of Darkness, but I think extra reading and a little tabletop viewing is needed to learn some stuff that Bloodlines doesn't fully reveal to us: like the Camarilla not just being "uncool" of "stuffy," but genuinely pretty twisted when it comes to the rights of humans...which is to say they're virtually non-existent for Camarilla law. The only time they're going to care if you kill a human is if you violated the Masquerade/attracted Hunters by doing it, or if it was someone important to another Kindred of high standing...like killing a Primogen's ghoul, killing the Prince's great, great, great granddaughter, killing the mayor of a city whom the Camarilla was manipulating or had deals with (posing as humans if he/she isn't a ghoul, of course), and so forth.

Very true regarding the Camarilla.  That being said however, I don't think its just them that feel that way.  I mean Jack, who's an Anarch, feels pretty much the same way as the Camarilla regarding humans, all you have to do is ask him to find this out.  To him they're just cattle.  And Skelter, who sends you after Patty does NOT care if you kill her to get rid of her.  He just wants her gotten rid of.  I think its pretty much a common vampire trait in general for the most part.  Clearly not universally so as Toreador VV cares about the lives of humans she personally knows, though that really is a Toreador trait.  At any rate, I don't think you can really pin the attitude as solely a "Big bad evil Camarilla trait".
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 24, 2019, 12:47:25 am
But yeah, Bloodlines does a good job of introducing people into the World of Darkness, but I think extra reading and a little tabletop viewing is needed to learn some stuff that Bloodlines doesn't fully reveal to us: like the Camarilla not just being "uncool" of "stuffy," but genuinely pretty twisted when it comes to the rights of humans...which is to say they're virtually non-existent for Camarilla law. The only time they're going to care if you kill a human is if you violated the Masquerade/attracted Hunters by doing it, or if it was someone important to another Kindred of high standing...like killing a Primogen's ghoul, killing the Prince's great, great, great granddaughter, killing the mayor of a city whom the Camarilla was manipulating or had deals with (posing as humans if he/she isn't a ghoul, of course), and so forth.

Very true regarding the Camarilla.  That being said however, I don't think its just them that feel that way.  I mean Jack, who's an Anarch, feels pretty much the same way as the Camarilla regarding humans, all you have to do is ask him to find this out.  To him they're just cattle.  And Skelter, who sends you after Patty does NOT care if you kill her to get rid of her.  He just wants her gotten rid of.  I think its pretty much a common vampire trait in general for the most part.  Clearly not universally so as Toreador VV cares about the lives of humans she personally knows, though that really is a Toreador trait.  At any rate, I don't think you can really pin the attitude as solely a "Big bad evil Camarilla trait".

Ehhhhh Toreador Antitribu are still Toreador...and they're more sadistic than Tzimisce much of the time. Tzimisce do want to create twisted works of art...but Toreador Antitribu "live" for the next painful suffering and death of a mortal when enacting their own art. But yeah, VV cares about some people. She's fine with asking for humans to be killed as long as she pouts about it and has someone else do the deed, as evidenced with "Chastity." Certainly, it's justified as it's pure survival and Chastity will kill a Kindred on sight without a conversation, but you get my point.

To be fair to Skelter, though, Patty knows all about Kindred and doesn't care how noisy she is talking about Kindred in public places. She's a danger to the Masquerade and not an "innocent" as far as ghouls go. She knows better and has the ability to hold her tongue. Sure, she's "jonesing" for another fix of blood, but to say she has no control over herself to be able to not blab like she is...well, that's not true.

Jack seems like the coolest biker-looking dude ever, but you are correct. He is shitty to humans. Oddly enough...Jeanette/Therese seem to have some of the best Kindred/human relations. Jeanette bangs them and lets them live...even those not in the know about Kindred, like Arthur Kilpatrick, as evidenced by her laptop. Therese doesn't ask you to kill anyone, either. The only humans we see them get killed are those gang guys at the diner, and good. Damn. Riddance. =p

LaCroix's missions want you to spare every human, but that's out of a "keeping the op clean" sort of mentality, to protect the Masquerade and not reflect poorly on himself. If his direct agent is making blood baths needlessly, it would make LaCroix look bad. None of the other Kindred really talk about humans and themselves, to my recollection.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 24, 2019, 07:57:52 pm
But yeah, Bloodlines does a good job of introducing people into the World of Darkness, but I think extra reading and a little tabletop viewing is needed to learn some stuff that Bloodlines doesn't fully reveal to us: like the Camarilla not just being "uncool" of "stuffy," but genuinely pretty twisted when it comes to the rights of humans...which is to say they're virtually non-existent for Camarilla law. The only time they're going to care if you kill a human is if you violated the Masquerade/attracted Hunters by doing it, or if it was someone important to another Kindred of high standing...like killing a Primogen's ghoul, killing the Prince's great, great, great granddaughter, killing the mayor of a city whom the Camarilla was manipulating or had deals with (posing as humans if he/she isn't a ghoul, of course), and so forth.

Very true regarding the Camarilla.  That being said however, I don't think its just them that feel that way.  I mean Jack, who's an Anarch, feels pretty much the same way as the Camarilla regarding humans, all you have to do is ask him to find this out.  To him they're just cattle.  And Skelter, who sends you after Patty does NOT care if you kill her to get rid of her.  He just wants her gotten rid of.  I think its pretty much a common vampire trait in general for the most part.  Clearly not universally so as Toreador VV cares about the lives of humans she personally knows, though that really is a Toreador trait.  At any rate, I don't think you can really pin the attitude as solely a "Big bad evil Camarilla trait".

Ehhhhh Toreador Antitribu are still Toreador...and they're more sadistic than Tzimisce much of the time. Tzimisce do want to create twisted works of art...but Toreador Antitribu "live" for the next painful suffering and death of a mortal when enacting their own art. But yeah, VV cares about some people. She's fine with asking for humans to be killed as long as she pouts about it and has someone else do the deed, as evidenced with "Chastity." Certainly, it's justified as it's pure survival and Chastity will kill a Kindred on sight without a conversation, but you get my point.

To be fair to Skelter, though, Patty knows all about Kindred and doesn't care how noisy she is talking about Kindred in public places. She's a danger to the Masquerade and not an "innocent" as far as ghouls go. She knows better and has the ability to hold her tongue. Sure, she's "jonesing" for another fix of blood, but to say she has no control over herself to be able to not blab like she is...well, that's not true.

Jack seems like the coolest biker-looking dude ever, but you are correct. He is shitty to humans. Oddly enough...Jeanette/Therese seem to have some of the best Kindred/human relations. Jeanette bangs them and lets them live...even those not in the know about Kindred, like Arthur Kilpatrick, as evidenced by her laptop. Therese doesn't ask you to kill anyone, either. The only humans we see them get killed are those gang guys at the diner, and good. Damn. Riddance. =p

LaCroix's missions want you to spare every human, but that's out of a "keeping the op clean" sort of mentality, to protect the Masquerade and not reflect poorly on himself. If his direct agent is making blood baths needlessly, it would make LaCroix look bad. None of the other Kindred really talk about humans and themselves, to my recollection.

My ultimate point of course though is that this indifference toward humans isn't solely a Camarilla thing.  Some vampire factions actively hold humans in contempt.  The Tzimisce tend to want to torture and twist their bodies and the Sabbat want to rule over them like ranchers in charge of cattle that is to be slaughtered for food.   The Camarilla is a bit more benevolent than clans and sects like that.  And I don't think the Anarchs as a faction hold humans in any higher regard than the Camarilla does, personally.  My personal impression is that in the World of Darkness, a vampire with total and complete compassion and love for humans is a bit of a unicorn, a rare beast.  I think overall in the grand scheme of things, "pragmatic indifference" is not the worst attitude you can have directed at you from a powerful vampire organization. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 24, 2019, 08:57:00 pm
But yeah, Bloodlines does a good job of introducing people into the World of Darkness, but I think extra reading and a little tabletop viewing is needed to learn some stuff that Bloodlines doesn't fully reveal to us: like the Camarilla not just being "uncool" of "stuffy," but genuinely pretty twisted when it comes to the rights of humans...which is to say they're virtually non-existent for Camarilla law. The only time they're going to care if you kill a human is if you violated the Masquerade/attracted Hunters by doing it, or if it was someone important to another Kindred of high standing...like killing a Primogen's ghoul, killing the Prince's great, great, great granddaughter, killing the mayor of a city whom the Camarilla was manipulating or had deals with (posing as humans if he/she isn't a ghoul, of course), and so forth.

Very true regarding the Camarilla.  That being said however, I don't think its just them that feel that way.  I mean Jack, who's an Anarch, feels pretty much the same way as the Camarilla regarding humans, all you have to do is ask him to find this out.  To him they're just cattle.  And Skelter, who sends you after Patty does NOT care if you kill her to get rid of her.  He just wants her gotten rid of.  I think its pretty much a common vampire trait in general for the most part.  Clearly not universally so as Toreador VV cares about the lives of humans she personally knows, though that really is a Toreador trait.  At any rate, I don't think you can really pin the attitude as solely a "Big bad evil Camarilla trait".

Ehhhhh Toreador Antitribu are still Toreador...and they're more sadistic than Tzimisce much of the time. Tzimisce do want to create twisted works of art...but Toreador Antitribu "live" for the next painful suffering and death of a mortal when enacting their own art. But yeah, VV cares about some people. She's fine with asking for humans to be killed as long as she pouts about it and has someone else do the deed, as evidenced with "Chastity." Certainly, it's justified as it's pure survival and Chastity will kill a Kindred on sight without a conversation, but you get my point.

To be fair to Skelter, though, Patty knows all about Kindred and doesn't care how noisy she is talking about Kindred in public places. She's a danger to the Masquerade and not an "innocent" as far as ghouls go. She knows better and has the ability to hold her tongue. Sure, she's "jonesing" for another fix of blood, but to say she has no control over herself to be able to not blab like she is...well, that's not true.

Jack seems like the coolest biker-looking dude ever, but you are correct. He is shitty to humans. Oddly enough...Jeanette/Therese seem to have some of the best Kindred/human relations. Jeanette bangs them and lets them live...even those not in the know about Kindred, like Arthur Kilpatrick, as evidenced by her laptop. Therese doesn't ask you to kill anyone, either. The only humans we see them get killed are those gang guys at the diner, and good. Damn. Riddance. =p

LaCroix's missions want you to spare every human, but that's out of a "keeping the op clean" sort of mentality, to protect the Masquerade and not reflect poorly on himself. If his direct agent is making blood baths needlessly, it would make LaCroix look bad. None of the other Kindred really talk about humans and themselves, to my recollection.

My ultimate point of course though is that this indifference toward humans isn't solely a Camarilla thing.  Some vampire factions actively hold humans in contempt.  The Tzimisce tend to want to torture and twist their bodies and the Sabbat want to rule over them like ranchers in charge of cattle that is to be slaughtered for food.   The Camarilla is a bit more benevolent than clans and sects like that.  And I don't think the Anarchs as a faction hold humans in any higher regard than the Camarilla does, personally.  My personal impression is that in the World of Darkness, a vampire with total and complete compassion and love for humans is a bit of a unicorn, a rare beast.  I think overall in the grand scheme of things, "pragmatic indifference" is not the worst attitude you can have directed at you from a powerful vampire organization.

I agree with your outlook of the different sects' overall viewpoints of humans, and yeah, the longer a Kindred continues to exist, typically the lower the humanity (i.e. humanity score), and once you're at humanity 5, killing innocents just to complete your objectives doesn't stain your humanity at all. You would only get a humanity stain if you like...tortured someone for fun or killed a friend/family member/pillar of the community (known as "touchstones" to your character in the pen and paper).

VV seems to care about humanity, but then I suppose sheer sentiment and words alone annoy me when someone has the power to personally make the change him/herself and completely address the situation right then. Sure, VV does it in a round-about way by pouting to the player character, but you could just as easily say "no" and walk away. She doesn't offer us any favors or anything significant, so in the table top, most players would say no or try to get the hell out of that conversation before they feel too liable for the situation as far as it being a potential masquerade breach if they don't handle it at that point, but even then, it's really VV's problem.

But yeah, I can't stand how she just pawns that shit off on someone else...and just does it by whining rather than offering me any gains. The player only does it either in hopes of getting nookie with VV or video game experience points/money/humanity, which breaks the immersion.  =/
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 24, 2019, 09:09:10 pm
But yeah, I can't stand how she just pawns that shit off on someone else...

Well, VV doesn't look like a fighter to me that would have high chances against a good hunter...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 24, 2019, 10:17:23 pm
But yeah, I can't stand how she just pawns that shit off on someone else...

Well, VV doesn't look like a fighter to me that would have high chances against a good hunter...

Tbh, I'm not a huge VV fan, but looks can be deceptive. Look at Jezabelle Locke. She didn't look like a fighter too, but she gave us a hell of a fight. I think, VV could have dealt with the hunter, if she really had too, but like so many of the other vampires, she seemed quite happy to let us do the dirty work :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 24, 2019, 11:09:35 pm
It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game.  Although some people like that.  There isn't much I can do with it so I made my own replacement posters.  lol 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 25, 2019, 04:51:01 am
It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game.  Although some people like that.  There isn't much I can do with it so I made my own replacement posters.  lol

I would think it kinda ridiculous too if hot chick who was in love with me decided to give me... a poster of her.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 25, 2019, 05:00:37 am
It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game.  Although some people like that.  There isn't much I can do with it so I made my own replacement posters.  lol

I would think it kinda ridiculous too if hot chick who was in love with me decided to give me... a poster of her.

I must say it's kinda brilliantly vain, though, and fitting for a Toreador.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 05:38:51 am
It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game.  Although some people like that.  There isn't much I can do with it so I made my own replacement posters.  lol

I would think it kinda ridiculous too if hot chick who was in love with me decided to give me... a poster of her.

For me (if it was a guy) it would depend on how I felt about him in return.  lol

It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game.  Although some people like that.  There isn't much I can do with it so I made my own replacement posters.  lol

I would think it kinda ridiculous too if hot chick who was in love with me decided to give me... a poster of her.

I must say it's kinda brilliantly vain, though, and fitting for a Toreador.

True but still does nothing for me.  Switched it out for a dude vampire with abs.  lol
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 25, 2019, 09:43:02 am
It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game. 

You always get a signed photograph and a poem too, which is so fitting for a Toreador ;)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 25, 2019, 10:50:02 am
It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game. 

You always get a signed photograph and a poem too, which is so fitting for a Toreador ;)!

It's a bit annoying (although also understandable) that you only get those if you've flirted with her; if you are simply nice and polite and do her quest the way she wants you to, you don't get the poem.

Perhaps MORE annoyingly though, you have to flirt with Jeanette in order to get her disposition high enough to merge her and Therese later; just being nice isn't enough.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 11:40:53 am
It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game. 

You always get a signed photograph and a poem too, which is so fitting for a Toreador ;)!

It is fitting, that's true.  Overall I do like VV. 

Now, its too bad we couldn't flirt with Ash and get a poster from him. That would have been nice. 

It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game. 

You always get a signed photograph and a poem too, which is so fitting for a Toreador ;)!

It's a bit annoying (although also understandable) that you only get those if you've flirted with her; if you are simply nice and polite and do her quest the way she wants you to, you don't get the poem.

Perhaps MORE annoyingly though, you have to flirt with Jeanette in order to get her disposition high enough to merge her and Therese later; just being nice isn't enough.

I wasn't aware that flirting with her was so necessary.  My two vampires are both big flirts anyway, so I just do it w/out giving it too much thought.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 25, 2019, 12:15:33 pm
Mine aren't, so I tested this theory several times. :P My no-nonsense Tremere disliked Jeanette from the very beginning so she wasn't sad to see her gone, but my "nice" Toreador would have liked to get the "best" resolution to the sisters' conflict.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 25, 2019, 06:09:18 pm
It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game. 

You always get a signed photograph and a poem too, which is so fitting for a Toreador ;)!

It's a bit annoying (although also understandable) that you only get those if you've flirted with her; if you are simply nice and polite and do her quest the way she wants you to, you don't get the poem.

Perhaps MORE annoyingly though, you have to flirt with Jeanette in order to get her disposition high enough to merge her and Therese later; just being nice isn't enough.

Heh, I never knew you had to flirt with her to do that. She's probably my favorite Kindred in the game and she's a damn fun flirt, so I always flirt her up. No one is around irl to see me fawning over her when I play, thankfully, so it's a win/win. :D   Of course, my adoration of Yukie far exceeds my enjoyment of Jeanette.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 10:24:54 pm
Mine aren't, so I tested this theory several times. :P My no-nonsense Tremere disliked Jeanette from the very beginning so she wasn't sad to see her gone, but my "nice" Toreador would have liked to get the "best" resolution to the sisters' conflict.

Ah, so your Torie isn't the same type as VV then.  lol

It IS too bad there isn't really any reward for helping VV beyond a poster in the base game. 

You always get a signed photograph and a poem too, which is so fitting for a Toreador ;)!

It's a bit annoying (although also understandable) that you only get those if you've flirted with her; if you are simply nice and polite and do her quest the way she wants you to, you don't get the poem.

Perhaps MORE annoyingly though, you have to flirt with Jeanette in order to get her disposition high enough to merge her and Therese later; just being nice isn't enough.

Heh, I never knew you had to flirt with her to do that. She's probably my favorite Kindred in the game and she's a damn fun flirt, so I always flirt her up. No one is around irl to see me fawning over her when I play, thankfully, so it's a win/win. :D   Of course, my adoration of Yukie far exceeds my enjoyment of Jeanette.

I like Jeanette much better.  But yeah, Yukie's OK.  I did like recruiting her as a companion in the CompMod.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 25, 2019, 11:25:16 pm


Ah, so your Torie isn't the same type as VV then.  lol



In some ways she is; she is sensitive and has a high regard for humans, but she isn't a seductress like VV (or as good a manipulator...). After all, she was just a regular girl, a singer in an unknown indie band before her embrace. I think was somewhat taken aback by Jeanette, lol, although she did try to help her.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 11:41:18 pm


Ah, so your Torie isn't the same type as VV then.  lol



In some ways she is; she is sensitive and has a high regard for humans, but she isn't a seductress like VV (or as good a manipulator...). After all, she was just a regular girl, a singer in an unknown indie band before her embrace. I think was somewhat taken aback by Jeanette, lol, although she did try to help her.

What's interesting is that in my mind, I always felt like Therese acted more like a Ventrue and Jeanette acted more like a Toreador.  A crazy Toreador tho.  lol
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 26, 2019, 12:16:54 am
What's interesting is that in my mind, I always felt like Therese acted more like a Ventrue and Jeanette acted more like a Toreador.  A crazy Toreador tho.  lol

Both don't even talk like a Malks... at all, some pseudo-Malks.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 26, 2019, 05:08:18 am
What's interesting is that in my mind, I always felt like Therese acted more like a Ventrue and Jeanette acted more like a Toreador.  A crazy Toreador tho.  lol

Both don't even talk like a Malks... at all, some pseudo-Malks.

I dunno, lines like getting "along like fire hoses" and "You smell new, little <boy/girl>, like fabric softener dew on freshly mowed astroturf. I'm not frightening you, am I duckling?" I'm too lazy to look up the line verbatim, but I think that's just about it. XD

Seems pretty nutty to me. =p
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 26, 2019, 07:30:41 am
Yeah, I mean, there isn't just one way for a Malkavian to act/speak. Think of Dr. Grout, he sounds absolutely normal and sane until you start listening to what he's actually saying. (My favourite type of Malk actually; I don't go much for Fishmalks).

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 26, 2019, 10:32:04 am
Yeah, I mean, there isn't just one way for a Malkavian to act/speak. Think of Dr. Grout, he sounds absolutely normal and sane until you start listening to what he's actually saying. (My favourite type of Malk actually; I don't go much for Fishmalks).

Awww, but Fishmalks are so wacky and FUUUUUUUUUN!!!!   

(https://tinyurl.com/y4q7pqb6)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 26, 2019, 11:12:47 am
Eh, I prefer my WoD more gritty and dark and less wacky and fun. :P It's probably why I have yet to do a Malk playthrough in BL1 (yes, really). I should try it one of these days though if I could just think of a character concept I'm happy with...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 26, 2019, 12:30:50 pm
Eh, I prefer my WoD more gritty and dark and less wacky and fun. :P It's probably why I have yet to do a Malk playthrough in BL1 (yes, really). I should try it one of these days though if I could just think of a character concept I'm happy with...

Although I agree, that the player Malk is sometimes a bit over the top, I find, that using a less ridiculous skin and not choosing the most ridiculous answers makes for a nice playthrough. I have a nice normal skin for my Malk girl and it is interesting, how mature she can talk with people like Strauss or Andrei. I like the dialogue between Strauss and Malk more than between Strauss and the other clans.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 26, 2019, 02:12:55 pm
Eh, I prefer my WoD more gritty and dark and less wacky and fun. :P It's probably why I have yet to do a Malk playthrough in BL1 (yes, really). I should try it one of these days though if I could just think of a character concept I'm happy with...

I was being sarcastic, just for the record.  lol   

I tried being a Malk ONCE and I couldn't do it.  So...I ended that playthrough and restarted my game with my Ventrue and just console cheated in Dementation for that playthrough. Good old "Vstats Get Dementation 5". 

Eh, I prefer my WoD more gritty and dark and less wacky and fun. :P It's probably why I have yet to do a Malk playthrough in BL1 (yes, really). I should try it one of these days though if I could just think of a character concept I'm happy with...

Although I agree, that the player Malk is sometimes a bit over the top, I find, that using a less ridiculous skin and not choosing the most ridiculous answers makes for a nice playthrough. I have a nice normal skin for my Malk girl and it is interesting, how mature she can talk with people like Strauss or Andrei. I like the dialogue between Strauss and Malk more than between Strauss and the other clans.

Yeah the Malk character models are a bit over the top.  The male is just blah.  I actually went with the female for my attempted Malk playthrough just because the male character model was so blah. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 26, 2019, 04:01:13 pm
Eh, I prefer my WoD more gritty and dark and less wacky and fun. :P It's probably why I have yet to do a Malk playthrough in BL1 (yes, really). I should try it one of these days though if I could just think of a character concept I'm happy with...

I was being sarcastic, just for the record.  lol   

I tried being a Malk ONCE and I couldn't do it.  So...I ended that playthrough and restarted my game with my Ventrue and just console cheated in Dementation for that playthrough. Good old "Vstats Get Dementation 5". 

Eh, I prefer my WoD more gritty and dark and less wacky and fun. :P It's probably why I have yet to do a Malk playthrough in BL1 (yes, really). I should try it one of these days though if I could just think of a character concept I'm happy with...

Although I agree, that the player Malk is sometimes a bit over the top, I find, that using a less ridiculous skin and not choosing the most ridiculous answers makes for a nice playthrough. I have a nice normal skin for my Malk girl and it is interesting, how mature she can talk with people like Strauss or Andrei. I like the dialogue between Strauss and Malk more than between Strauss and the other clans.

Yeah the Malk character models are a bit over the top.  The male is just blah.  I actually went with the female for my attempted Malk playthrough just because the male character model was so blah.

I think I've played as almost every sex/clan combo in Bloodlines 1. I can't recall if I ever did a full playthrough as a male Malk, though. I HATED that model so much. I don't like his look without the weird attire, I hate his weird attire,I don't like his pose in the menu, I just...everything about him...ugh. And given the dialog, he tries to "act cute," but it doesn't fly in my opinion. It works far better for the female Malk model.

Also, I like the posterior on the cowgirl outfit and I think the cop outfit looks pretty cool on her with just a hint of sexiness. =p
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 26, 2019, 04:03:15 pm
Eh, I prefer my WoD more gritty and dark and less wacky and fun. :P It's probably why I have yet to do a Malk playthrough in BL1 (yes, really). I should try it one of these days though if I could just think of a character concept I'm happy with...

I was being sarcastic, just for the record.  lol   

I tried being a Malk ONCE and I couldn't do it.  So...I ended that playthrough and restarted my game with my Ventrue and just console cheated in Dementation for that playthrough. Good old "Vstats Get Dementation 5". 

Eh, I prefer my WoD more gritty and dark and less wacky and fun. :P It's probably why I have yet to do a Malk playthrough in BL1 (yes, really). I should try it one of these days though if I could just think of a character concept I'm happy with...

Although I agree, that the player Malk is sometimes a bit over the top, I find, that using a less ridiculous skin and not choosing the most ridiculous answers makes for a nice playthrough. I have a nice normal skin for my Malk girl and it is interesting, how mature she can talk with people like Strauss or Andrei. I like the dialogue between Strauss and Malk more than between Strauss and the other clans.

Yeah the Malk character models are a bit over the top.  The male is just blah.  I actually went with the female for my attempted Malk playthrough just because the male character model was so blah.

The female is no better, she is as ridiculous as the male. Luckily, there are some talented modder out there, that made nice skins. One such is 'Subtle female Malkavian' over at Nexus (I'm not sure, if you find it anywhere else). I really love that one. Or for the punk rocker touch, the female Tzimisce skin from the Antitribu mod. I use that for my Gangrel atm, because apart from armor 0 (which I don't use, because I do not like to have my characters run around in underwear), you don't see much fleshcrafting, except on one arm and that could as easily be an animal feature from a frenzy (and as it happens, my Gangrel had a frenzy very early in the game, at the beach house, she killed all drug dealers in the process, which was fun). I used the punk rock Tzimi for a Malkavian run once too. Just love that skin.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 26, 2019, 05:02:23 pm


I was being sarcastic, just for the record.  lol   


Gotcha. ;)



The female is no better, she is as ridiculous as the male.

Absolutely, I hate that model, it's like she walked off a porn set. No way could someone get away with walking down the street dressed as a cowgirl with their ass literally hanging out and not draw unwanted attention. I have no problem with sexiness, male OR female, in fact I enjoy both, but she just looks skanky.

If I did a Malk playthrough, a reasonable reskin would be a must. :P This one is among the best IMO (https://www.moddb.com/addons/deathrockermalkfem), sadly there's only one outfit but it remains an option if I wanted to goth it up.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 26, 2019, 07:37:11 pm
I have no problem with sexiness, male OR female, in fact I enjoy both, but she just looks skanky.

Somebody clearly thought that was what sold games at the time, what with her commically jiggly tits an' all.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 26, 2019, 08:14:42 pm
Her and almost every major female NPC in the game. :P But while I can accept it and even appreciate it in an NPC (although they were OTT as well at times... couldn't they give VV something other than a thong to wear to the Prince's meeting? But I digress) my character is a different matter.

In fact the lack of PC customization is one of the biggest failings of the game, IMO. I like making my characters look the way I picture them, not the way someone else did. Looking forward to BL2's character creator!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 26, 2019, 08:31:41 pm
Her and almost every major female NPC in the game. :P But while I can accept it and even appreciate it in an NPC (although they were OTT as well at times... couldn't they give VV something other than a thong to wear to the Prince's meeting? But I digress) my character is a different matter.

Indeed. Then again Jeanette works beautifully, even though she looks like she does.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 26, 2019, 10:11:44 pm
I think I've played as almost every sex/clan combo in Bloodlines 1. I can't recall if I ever did a full playthrough as a male Malk, though. I HATED that model so much. I don't like his look without the weird attire, I hate his weird attire,I don't like his pose in the menu, I just...everything about him...ugh. And given the dialog, he tries to "act cute," but it doesn't fly in my opinion. It works far better for the female Malk model.

Also, I like the posterior on the cowgirl outfit and I think the cop outfit looks pretty cool on her with just a hint of sexiness. =p

EVERY "sex combo", eh?  "Sex combos" sound fun!  I may have to try every sex combo one of these days as well! 

But I see that you get it when it comes to the male Malk model.  Many of your grievances with him are mine as well. 

I will admit that the female Malk has a nice she-ass but she-asses do little for me titillation-wise.  I can appreciate a woman's beauty from an aesthetic standpoint.  I even find female cleavage to be lovely aesthetically, the same way I appreciate the beauty of a rose or lovely meadow.  i mean even my gay self can be caught gawking at the chest of the stunningly beautiful Elvira, Mistress of the Dark. But it does not get my motor running, of course.  I wish they had something like that for a Dude vamp so I could see more he-ass in the game.  Sadly with Bloodlines 1 that is just NOT a thing.  Hopefully it will be in the sequel!  Because I find the male form both aesthetically beautiful AND of course erotically titillating.  Sigh.  I love boys.  lol 

Elvira has such...talent.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/MZ3Aj1q6gi9Q0tYnKQ/giphy.gif)

As a reminder, I love boys. In case anyone forgot.  lol
(https://media.giphy.com/media/RJPeUXWi0sUXXwECjm/giphy.gif)


The female is no better, she is as ridiculous as the male. Luckily, there are some talented modder out there, that made nice skins. One such is 'Subtle female Malkavian' over at Nexus (I'm not sure, if you find it anywhere else). I really love that one. Or for the punk rocker touch, the female Tzimisce skin from the Antitribu mod. I use that for my Gangrel atm, because apart from armor 0 (which I don't use, because I do not like to have my characters run around in underwear), you don't see much fleshcrafting, except on one arm and that could as easily be an animal feature from a frenzy (and as it happens, my Gangrel had a frenzy very early in the game, at the beach house, she killed all drug dealers in the process, which was fun). I used the punk rock Tzimi for a Malkavian run once too. Just love that skin.

Mods are great!  Recently I have been able to play the Toreador male thanks to Ghanima_Atreides doing a model swap for me.  I hate the default male Toreador's hair.  lol 

I have no problem with sexiness, male OR female, in fact I enjoy both, but she just looks skanky.

I can appreciate that!  I think you would find the males in most of my Bethesda games to be kinda skanky though, the way I dress them thanks to mods.  LOL 

Somebody clearly thought that was what sold games at the time, what with her commically jiggly tits an' all.

I think it DID sell games back then. 

I like making my characters look the way I picture them, not the way someone else did. Looking forward to BL2's character creator!

Me too!!  Can't wait to make a devastatingly handsome Thinblood to Ventrue who actually gets to be gay.  Wheeee! 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 27, 2019, 02:13:20 am
Me too!!  Can't wait to make a devastatingly handsome Thinblood to Ventrue who actually gets to be gay.  Wheeee!

I might be encouraged to play Ventrue as well in this game... unless I can't eat rats :O !
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 27, 2019, 03:03:37 am
Me too!!  Can't wait to make a devastatingly handsome Thinblood to Ventrue who actually gets to be gay.  Wheeee!

I might be encouraged to play Ventrue as well in this game... unless I can't eat rats :O !

That was never a problem for me because Ventrue was what I started out with so for me that was "the norm" and when I played a Tremere and could eat rats I would forget to.  lol  It doesn't appeal much to me anyway. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 27, 2019, 05:49:29 am
That was never a problem for me because Ventrue was what I started out with so for me that was "the norm" and when I played a Tremere and could eat rats I would forget to.  lol  It doesn't appeal much to me anyway.

I just find it so disgustingly delightful. Can you actually suck the blood from rats in any other game ?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 27, 2019, 06:34:31 am
That was never a problem for me because Ventrue was what I started out with so for me that was "the norm" and when I played a Tremere and could eat rats I would forget to.  lol  It doesn't appeal much to me anyway.

I just find it so disgustingly delightful. Can you actually suck the blood from rats in any other game ?

I can't think of one!  lol 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/RlNtBKg7yUajWgVYSi/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 27, 2019, 03:42:46 pm
That was never a problem for me because Ventrue was what I started out with so for me that was "the norm" and when I played a Tremere and could eat rats I would forget to.  lol  It doesn't appeal much to me anyway.

I just find it so disgustingly delightful. Can you actually suck the blood from rats in any other game ?

Vampire The Masquerade Redemption. You collect rats in your inventory and can nom them.

Quote from: DarkZephyr
I will admit that the female Malk has a nice she-ass but she-asses do little for me titillation-wise.  I can appreciate a woman's beauty from an aesthetic standpoint.  I even find female cleavage to be lovely aesthetically, the same way I appreciate the beauty of a rose or lovely meadow.  i mean even my gay self can be caught gawking at the chest of the stunningly beautiful Elvira, Mistress of the Dark. But it does not get my motor running, of course.  I wish they had something like that for a Dude vamp so I could see more he-ass in the game.  Sadly with Bloodlines 1 that is just NOT a thing.  Hopefully it will be in the sequel!  Because I find the male form both aesthetically beautiful AND of course erotically titillating.  Sigh.  I love boys.  lol 

Haha, "she-ass." Haven't heard that one before. Alas, bosoms do little for me. In that Elvira gif, however, I cannot help but smile at her facial expressions. ^^
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 27, 2019, 10:19:23 pm
That was never a problem for me because Ventrue was what I started out with so for me that was "the norm" and when I played a Tremere and could eat rats I would forget to.  lol  It doesn't appeal much to me anyway.

I just find it so disgustingly delightful. Can you actually suck the blood from rats in any other game ?

Vampire The Masquerade Redemption. You collect rats in your inventory and can nom them.

Quote from: DarkZephyr
I will admit that the female Malk has a nice she-ass but she-asses do little for me titillation-wise.  I can appreciate a woman's beauty from an aesthetic standpoint.  I even find female cleavage to be lovely aesthetically, the same way I appreciate the beauty of a rose or lovely meadow.  i mean even my gay self can be caught gawking at the chest of the stunningly beautiful Elvira, Mistress of the Dark. But it does not get my motor running, of course.  I wish they had something like that for a Dude vamp so I could see more he-ass in the game.  Sadly with Bloodlines 1 that is just NOT a thing.  Hopefully it will be in the sequel!  Because I find the male form both aesthetically beautiful AND of course erotically titillating.  Sigh.  I love boys.  lol 

Haha, "she-ass." Haven't heard that one before. Alas, bosoms do little for me. In that Elvira gif, however, I cannot help but smile at her facial expressions. ^^

Well, one must be able to differentiate!  :D 

Elvira is a trip.  I met her once in real life and her facial expressions are amazing.  We were asked by the ones who booked her not to take pictures but of course people were whipping out their phones and cameras left and right anyway (including my companions) and she was completely aware of it and instead of getting upset that people were ignoring that request she simply smiled and every move she made was like this elegant dance.  It was really enchanting to watch.  Every smile, every turn of her head or gesture of her fingers was graceful and beautiful.  She did NOT want any bad shots taken of her.  I was very impressed.  I had been a fan since I was just a little boy but my love for her grew by leaps and bounds that day.

As for bosoms, don't forget! 
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Yoi8ou3nybK03WoGNH/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 28, 2019, 06:34:40 am
That was never a problem for me because Ventrue was what I started out with so for me that was "the norm" and when I played a Tremere and could eat rats I would forget to.  lol  It doesn't appeal much to me anyway.

I just find it so disgustingly delightful. Can you actually suck the blood from rats in any other game ?

Vampire The Masquerade Redemption. You collect rats in your inventory and can nom them.

Quote from: DarkZephyr
I will admit that the female Malk has a nice she-ass but she-asses do little for me titillation-wise.  I can appreciate a woman's beauty from an aesthetic standpoint.  I even find female cleavage to be lovely aesthetically, the same way I appreciate the beauty of a rose or lovely meadow.  i mean even my gay self can be caught gawking at the chest of the stunningly beautiful Elvira, Mistress of the Dark. But it does not get my motor running, of course.  I wish they had something like that for a Dude vamp so I could see more he-ass in the game.  Sadly with Bloodlines 1 that is just NOT a thing.  Hopefully it will be in the sequel!  Because I find the male form both aesthetically beautiful AND of course erotically titillating.  Sigh.  I love boys.  lol 

Haha, "she-ass." Haven't heard that one before. Alas, bosoms do little for me. In that Elvira gif, however, I cannot help but smile at her facial expressions. ^^

Well, one must be able to differentiate!  :D 

Elvira is a trip.  I met her once in real life and her facial expressions are amazing.  We were asked by the ones who booked her not to take pictures but of course people were whipping out their phones and cameras left and right anyway (including my companions) and she was completely aware of it and instead of getting upset that people were ignoring that request she simply smiled and every move she made was like this elegant dance.  It was really enchanting to watch.  Every smile, every turn of her head or gesture of her fingers was graceful and beautiful.  She did NOT want any bad shots taken of her.  I was very impressed.  I had been a fan since I was just a little boy but my love for her grew by leaps and bounds that day.

As for bosoms, don't forget! 
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Yoi8ou3nybK03WoGNH/giphy.gif)

That's a pretty awesome story. I've never been to any conventions or met any celebrities that I care about. Oh, there was one time that I was eating at Cracker Barrel and Clark Kent's dad from Smallville was eating there. My parents were like "LOOK!!!" and I was like *shrug* and then yeeeeears later, I watched Smallville, and kinda regretted not giving a shit back in the days of yore so that I could have embarrassed myself in public (better than usual).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 28, 2019, 09:18:39 am
That's a pretty awesome story. I've never been to any conventions or met any celebrities that I care about. Oh, there was one time that I was eating at Cracker Barrel and Clark Kent's dad from Smallville was eating there. My parents were like "LOOK!!!" and I was like *shrug* and then yeeeeears later, I watched Smallville, and kinda regretted not giving a shit back in the days of yore so that I could have embarrassed myself in public (better than usual).

That would be fun!  John Schneider is so hot, even now.  I used to enjoy him in Dukes of Hazzard reruns. 

(http://staticimg.jkcontent.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/John-Schneider-696x464.jpg)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 28, 2019, 12:36:43 pm

As for bosoms, don't forget! 
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Yoi8ou3nybK03WoGNH/giphy.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/qgRqZq4.jpg)

"I was also an incredible pair of legs."  😏
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 28, 2019, 03:19:52 pm

As for bosoms, don't forget! 
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Yoi8ou3nybK03WoGNH/giphy.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/qgRqZq4.jpg)

"I was also an incredible pair of legs."  😏

Ha ha YES!!!

But she's too modest.  She's more than a great set of boobs OR an incredible pair of legs  She's also very well rounded...at er...carpentry!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoQwUCeaTcb3d84/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 28, 2019, 10:47:37 pm
But she's too modest.  She's more than a great set of boobs OR an incredible pair of legs  She's also very well rounded...at er...carpentry!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoQwUCeaTcb3d84/giphy.gif)

O_O


Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 28, 2019, 11:54:57 pm
But she's too modest.  She's more than a great set of boobs OR an incredible pair of legs  She's also very well rounded...at er...carpentry!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoQwUCeaTcb3d84/giphy.gif)

O_O



LOL!

That's me whenever I see Zac Efron without a shirt.  Le sigh.  No human being should be THAT exquisite.  If he was embraced, he would HAVE to be a Toreador. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/kFOMIs2sGRk16Hfn6u/giphy.gif)


Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 29, 2019, 06:20:37 am
(https://media.giphy.com/media/kFOMIs2sGRk16Hfn6u/giphy.gif)

Quite the fella! I had heard his name before but couldn't pick him out of a crowd, lol. I had to go to imdb to see what he's been in. He was apparently in NCIS and Firefly in an episode each, but I don't remember him in them. I've never seen any other movies/shows with him in them. XD

I am so out of touch these days...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 29, 2019, 06:22:46 am
Quite the fella! I had heard his name before but couldn't pick him out of a crowd, lol. I had to go to imdb to see what he's been in. He was apparently in NCIS and Firefly in an episode each, but I don't remember him in them. I've never seen any other movies/shows with him in them. XD

I am so out of touch these days...

No matter who he is now, he will always be... High School Musical !

(https://img.elcomercio.pe/files/article_content_ec_fotos/uploads/2019/04/27/5cc481c48f966.jpeg)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 29, 2019, 06:40:59 am
(https://media.giphy.com/media/kFOMIs2sGRk16Hfn6u/giphy.gif)

Quite the fella! I had heard his name before but couldn't pick him out of a crowd, lol. I had to go to imdb to see what he's been in. He was apparently in NCIS and Firefly in an episode each, but I don't remember him in them. I've never seen any other movies/shows with him in them. XD

I am so out of touch these days...

I would love to be IN touch with Mr. Efron and I don't mean over the phone.  lol 

Quite the fella! I had heard his name before but couldn't pick him out of a crowd, lol. I had to go to imdb to see what he's been in. He was apparently in NCIS and Firefly in an episode each, but I don't remember him in them. I've never seen any other movies/shows with him in them. XD

I am so out of touch these days...

No matter who he is now, he will always be... High School Musical !

(https://img.elcomercio.pe/files/article_content_ec_fotos/uploads/2019/04/27/5cc481c48f966.jpeg)

True!  I never did see those films though.  lol  My sibling sure were into them tho.  My interest in Zac Efron developed long after the High school Musical days when he turned into a man.  lol 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 30, 2019, 12:11:24 am
I'm pretty sure I have no interest in men...

... if I did though, it would probably be in Mr Effron xD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 30, 2019, 08:33:26 am
I'm pretty sure I have no interest in men...

... if I did though, it would probably be in Mr Effron xD

LOL you have good taste! 

I always said that if I ever developed an interest in women, it would be Gillian Anderson from her Dana Scully days.  She was just so beautiful, in my eyes.  Although I always added that Mulder would have to be involved with it somehow.  lol

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/y/6/A/7y6AR/ms-otp.jpg)

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: mdqp on May 30, 2019, 09:32:35 am
Do you think we might get Romero or the Tv news anchor back in the game, since Brian hinted at a voice acting role for bloodlines 2? Well, if it was up to me, he'd voice all the characters, but if he had to work on a returning role, which one do you think is the most likely at the moment?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 30, 2019, 10:29:29 am
Do you think we might get Romero or the Tv news anchor back in the game, since Brian hinted at a voice acting role for bloodlines 2? Well, if it was up to me, he'd voice all the characters, but if he had to work on a returning role, which one do you think is the most likely at the moment?
Random / Noir Cop of course. ;)
Or is it Ji Wen Ja? Maybe the guy from the Friggin Chicken commercial?
Who knows but if have to pick one character well i won´t choose his most unremarkable role as Romero.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 30, 2019, 10:30:28 am
I would love to see Romero back. MAybe the zombie problem is finally solved in Hollywood and he got other tasks, that require him travelling to other cities.
But the news guy would be possible too. SOmehow, that voice always floated in the background and I never really registered, that he and Romero had the same voice actor.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 30, 2019, 10:47:10 am
I would love to see Romero back. MAybe the zombie problem is finally solved in Hollywood and he got other tasks, that require him travelling to other cities.
Well 15 Years have passed since then. ;)

Quote
But the news guy would be possible too. SOmehow, that voice always floated in the background and I never really registered, that he and Romero had the same voice actor.
He was also one of two Pier Cops.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 30, 2019, 10:52:59 am
I would love to see Romero back. MAybe the zombie problem is finally solved in Hollywood and he got other tasks, that require him travelling to other cities.
Well 15 Years have passed since then. ;)

Quote
But the news guy would be possible too. SOmehow, that voice always floated in the background and I never really registered, that he and Romero had the same voice actor.
He was also one of two Pier Cops.


Really? The douchy one or the one, who saw something bad a few years ago? I would go for the latter one, I think, the voices fits better.

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 30, 2019, 11:11:49 am
Really? The douchy one or the one, who saw something bad a few years ago? I would go for the latter one, I think, the voices fits better.
Of course its the latter one. ;)
I already mention this but he was also Ji Wen Ja. By the way i really doubt that Paradox would allowed Mitsoda to voice an elder chinese again.
It have worked in 2004 but times have changed since then.

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: z on May 30, 2019, 11:53:02 am
Hmmm... according to my fake plastic cristal ball :
- Jeanette/Terese : 80% returning chance. They are canon in v5 and Asylum is now famous and open in several cities.
- Jack : 1%. Unfortunatly, according to some sources, his fate was very bad after vtmb 1... He should be dead. Unless he wants us to believe that he is dead ? Jack is Jack after all. How can he die ? haha
- Beckett : 2%. Unfortunatly, he suffers from a mysterious "disease", making him withering, becoming weaker and weaker. I don't know if he died tho...
- Knox (Bertram's ghoul) : 40%. I woult like to see him, I don't know why. Imagine him transformed into a baddass termonator Ghoul of death haha
- VV : 10%. I don't know... I would love to see her again... but some would Babyrage a lot because of her existence... 2020 is not like 2004, if you know what I mean x)
- Pisha : 70%. She was here before WW2. She was here in the events of vtmb1. She will be here in vtmb2 I think. She tends to be present every time something important happens in the world.
- Fat Larry : 60%. If Fat Larry didn't turn his "bu'ness" into something FAT and BIG through all the country between vtmb1 and 2, I would be disappointed in him haha
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 30, 2019, 12:06:53 pm
- Jack : 1%. Unfortunatly, according to some sources, his fate was very bad after vtmb 1... He should be dead. Unless he wants us to believe that he is dead ? Jack is Jack after all. How can he die ? haha
- Beckett : 2%. Unfortunatly, he suffers from a mysterious "disease", making him withering, becoming weaker and weaker. I don't know if he died tho...
Jack and Becketts fates were ignored by V5 ;)
In my opinion Beckett has 97% chance and it would be crime against humanity to not have him in consideration of  Bloodlines 2 maintheme of Thinbloods.

Quote
- VV : 10%. I don't know... I would love to see her again... but some would Babyrage a lot because of her existence... 2020 is not like 2004, if you know what I mean x)
Some have speculate that the voice actress from the Trailer is Nika Futterman aka VV / Velvet Velour.
From all the Anarchs she seems (for me) the most likely to return. Also i would argue that besides Jeanette (less extent Therese) she is the most memorable character.
But of course they have to chance her outfit. ;)

Quote
- Fat Larry : 60%. If Fat Larry didn't turn his "bu'ness" into something FAT and BIG through all the country between vtmb1 and 2, I would be disappointed in him haha
You can kill him also why should he be in Seattle of all places?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: z on May 30, 2019, 12:30:53 pm
Quote from: Wilhelm Streicher 19
Quote
- VV : 10%. I don't know... I would love to see her again... but some would Babyrage a lot because of her existence... 2020 is not like 2004, if you know what I mean x)
Some have speculate that the voice actress from the Trailer is Nika Futterman aka VV / Velvet Velour.
From all the Anarchs she seems (for me) the most likely to return. Also i would argue that besides Jeanette (less extent Therese) she is the most memorable character.
But of course they have to chance her outfit. ;)
Oh ? I didn't know about that ! Nice !

Quote
Quote
- Fat Larry : 60%. If Fat Larry didn't turn his "bu'ness" into something FAT and BIG through all the country between vtmb1 and 2, I would be disappointed in him haha
You can kill him also why should he be in Seattle of all places?
Why not expand the "bu'ness" to Seattle if possible ? And why would you kill Fat Larry ? Murderer !!!! T_____T
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 30, 2019, 12:40:44 pm
Why not expand the "bu'ness" at Seattle if possible ?
Because its so random!?!
Also in my opinion Larry isn´t very memorable besides that he is black and fat.
By the way with this argument to can say this to all of Bloodlines 1 merchants.

But if i had to choose one my pick would be Slater. I agree that he is even less memorable then Larry but
i really can see him and his band Ebola Cereal to play in some of Seattle clubs.

Quote
And why would you kill Fat Larry ? Murderer !!!! T_____T
My Sabbat Gangrel hates all humans. ;)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on May 30, 2019, 01:13:56 pm
- Jack : 1%. Unfortunatly, according to some sources, his fate was very bad after vtmb 1... He should be dead. Unless he wants us to believe that he is dead ? Jack is Jack after all. How can he die ? haha
- Beckett : 2%. Unfortunatly, he suffers from a mysterious "disease", making him withering, becoming weaker and weaker. I don't know if he died tho...
Jack and Becketts fates were ignored by V5 ;)
In my opinion Beckett has 97% chance and it would be crime against humanity to have him in consideration of  Bloodlines 2 maintheme of Thinbloods.

Quote
- VV : 10%. I don't know... I would love to see her again... but some would Babyrage a lot because of her existence... 2020 is not like 2004, if you know what I mean x)
Some have speculate that the voice actress from the Trailer is Nika Futterman aka VV / Velvet Velour.
From all the Anarchs she seems (for me) the most likely to return. Also i would argue that besides Jeanette (less extent Therese) she is the most memorable character.
But of course they have to chance her outfit. ;)

Quote
- Fat Larry : 60%. If Fat Larry didn't turn his "bu'ness" into something FAT and BIG through all the country between vtmb1 and 2, I would be disappointed in him haha
You can kill him also why should he be in Seattle of all places?

My only big concern about Beckett returning due to his Thin-Blood fascination is that it seems like he might come off a bit too condescending since your kind is the source of his interest. He was already a bit condescending in Bloodlines 1 when you're not even a Thin-Blood, so I think it would be more worse here and might further rob the player of a sense of empowerment and agency.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on May 30, 2019, 04:13:26 pm
Jack and Becketts fates were ignored by V5 ;)

Both appear in the canon "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" book and are alive and kicking. Beckett is still on tour and Jack seemed to have gone back to do some pirating!

Quote
From all the Anarchs she seems (for me) the most likely to return. Also i would argue that besides Jeanette (less extent Therese) she is the most memorable character.

VV could manage the new Asylum club opening in Seattle with Tourette being there for the opening occasion ;)! And a Fat Larry might cause SJW problems today.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: z on May 30, 2019, 04:54:38 pm
Jack and Becketts fates were ignored by V5 ;)

Both appear in the canon "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" book and are alive and kicking. Beckett is still on tour and Jack seemed to have gone back to do some pirating!

Quote
From all the Anarchs she seems (for me) the most likely to return. Also i would argue that besides Jeanette (less extent Therese) she is the most memorable character.

VV could manage the new Asylum club opening in Seattle with Tourette being there for the opening occasion ;)! And a Fat Larry might cause SJW problems today.

Oh ? I thought Jack became some sort of prophet of Gehenna after his pirating episode. It ended badly for him has he was killed by a Nosferaltu when he wanted to protect Jenna Cross. I forgot the details tho. As for Beckett, I thought he is suffering from the Withering and that he might have died.
I read this from the whitewolf wiki. I don't know how reliable this source is tho...
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Smiling_Jack
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Jenna_Cross
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Beckett
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on May 30, 2019, 05:26:54 pm
I really don't need more VV and Jeanette, they annoyed the hell out of me. Jeanette/Therese were at least mildly entertaining, but VV was just ...no. 
I can't really see any of the anarchs in Seattle (and I would love to see Damsel or Nines again)- what busniess would they have there? Help the Seattle anarchs in their fight against Camarilla and Sabbat?
Maybe you could run into Ash, who left the city in Bloodlines 1, if he managed to stay alive that long (and yes, I know, you can kill Ash or at least leave him to die in the hunters cave, but you never actually see him die, do you?). Not that he is very interesting, but maybe he could have grown during the time and become less annoying and whiny and a bit more fleshed out character.

Beckett on the other hand would be cool.
I'm on the fence about Jack. On one hand, he was entertaining on Bloodlines, on the other hand, he was the most scheming bastard in that game.
But from all Bloodlines 1 characters, at least Beckett makes sense. He is nomadic and goes, where the action is.

Maybe one of the other iconic WoD characters? I haven't read Becketts Jyhad diary or teh V5 rulebook yet  - do we know, what became of characters like Theo Bell, Lucita, Anatole, Sascha Vykos, that Toreador lady from the clan novels ...?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 30, 2019, 06:28:08 pm
Oh ? I thought Jack became some sort of prophet of Gehenna after his pirating episode. It ended badly for him has he was killed by a Nosferaltu when he wanted to protect Jenna Cross. I forgot the details tho. As for Beckett, I thought he is suffering from the Withering and that he might have died.
I read this from the whitewolf wiki. I don't know how reliable this source is tho...
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Smiling_Jack
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Jenna_Cross
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Beckett

Jack's death was only part of one possible outcome in one of the Gehenna scenarios (Time of Judgment) which are now all retconned.  The "withering" of Becket is "assumed with the rest of the Kindred" and is not a matter of canon, and once again, this would be an assumption based on the Gehenna scenarios, which are all retconned.  So Jack has no true canon death as of yet and Becket is not withering unless its decided to make these things canon through the game which I hope they do NOT do. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: z on May 30, 2019, 07:03:53 pm
Oh ? I thought Jack became some sort of prophet of Gehenna after his pirating episode. It ended badly for him has he was killed by a Nosferaltu when he wanted to protect Jenna Cross. I forgot the details tho. As for Beckett, I thought he is suffering from the Withering and that he might have died.
I read this from the whitewolf wiki. I don't know how reliable this source is tho...
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Smiling_Jack
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Jenna_Cross
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Beckett

Jack's death was only part of one possible outcome in one of the Gehenna scenarios (Time of Judgment) which are now all retconned.  The "withering" of Becket is "assumed with the rest of the Kindred" and is not a matter of canon, and once again, this would be an assumption based on the Gehenna scenarios, which are all retconned.  So Jack has no true canon death as of yet and Becket is not withering unless its decided to make these things canon through the game which I hope they do NOT do.
I see. If Jack and Beckett didn't die a pathetic death, that's excellent news :D
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 30, 2019, 07:17:42 pm
Maybe you could run into Ash

With a tattletale tuatara and lots of spare T's on his face
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 30, 2019, 09:34:39 pm
Maybe you could run into Ash, who left the city in Bloodlines 1, if he managed to stay alive that long (and yes, I know, you can kill Ash or at least leave him to die in the hunters cave, but you never actually see him die, do you?). Not that he is very interesting, but maybe he could have grown during the time and become less annoying and whiny and a bit more fleshed out character.
And why should he move to Seattle?
His last line was: " Thanks. You'll never see me again. I'm gonna go somewhere no one will ever... see... this face... again."
The player can even say to him: "Good luck in Canada."
Also his voice actor Jay Gordon hasn´t voiced anything since 2010!
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330297/

Quote
I'm on the fence about Jack. On one hand, he was entertaining on Bloodlines, on the other hand, he was the most scheming bastard in that game.
Therefore Jack can only get an cameo. Even if some have only played Bloodlines 1 its likely that nobody would trust him as Mentor again.
But as Cameo with the Taxidriver why not?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 30, 2019, 11:01:25 pm
And why should he move to Seattle?
His last line was: " Thanks. You'll never see me again. I'm gonna go somewhere no one will ever... see... this face... again."
The player can even say to him: "Good luck in Canada."
Also his voice actor Jay Gordon hasn´t voiced anything since 2010!
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330297/

I think it might have even been longer ago than 2010 since he voiced anything as the 2009 listing is a music video gig with his band "Orgy" and the 2010 listing is a small role in the film "Drag me to Hell".  I wanna say Gothic 3 was his last video game voice role back in 2006.  That being said, he's still around, alive and kicking and active in show business according to Wikipedia, so they might be able to get him to come back to voice acting for this game, ya never know.   
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 04, 2019, 04:14:41 pm
Wow i really didn´t know that Margaret Tang (the voice Lily, Imalia, Kiki, Junkiegirl and Hostest) had this much responsibility in Bloodlines 1.
She was also voice director, casting director and dialogue editor for Bloodlines 1.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0849314/

Maybe she is also back for Bloodlines 2 but i doubt it.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 04, 2019, 10:42:14 pm
Wow i really didn´t know that Margaret Tang (the voice Lily, Imalia, Kiki, Junkiegirl and Hostest) had this much responsibility in Bloodlines 1.
She was also voice director, casting director and dialogue editor for Bloodlines 1.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0849314/

Maybe she is also back for Bloodlines 2 but i doubt it.

Wow. That's a lotta work! On the one hand, it's cool that we're getting weekly info, but on the other hand, I hope they don't give away too much info about the people we're gonna meet on our blood-nomming adventures...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 05, 2019, 07:35:17 am
Wow i really didn´t know that Margaret Tang (the voice Lily, Imalia, Kiki, Junkiegirl and Hostest) had this much responsibility in Bloodlines 1.
She was also voice director, casting director and dialogue editor for Bloodlines 1.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0849314/

Holy...

... get her back Brian, she deserves it !
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 05, 2019, 07:38:57 pm
Holy...

... get her back Brian, she deserves it !
Lets hope so but i think they went with some else. But if i am wrong well she should reprise one of her roles.
Mainly Imalia or Lily. Junkegirl, Hostess or Kiki aren´t that interessing or in Kiki´s case well liked.

By the way i looked through the Vampir Bloodlines IMDb page i found others who hadn´t voiced a videogame for years.
So i would say that the chances aren´t that great for their character to be returning if they stick with the original voiceactor.
But to be honest most their roles aren´t that memorable.

Matt Prescott Morton (Tin Can Bill / Igor / Doomsayer / Guard / Bum)
Last videogame role as Hades in Playstation All-Star Battle Royale   2012
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0608049/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t26

Michael Yama (Wong Ho / Chang Brother)
Last videogame role in Saints Row 2    2008
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0945194/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t28

Josh Paskowitz (Slater)
Last videogame role well in Bloodlines 1
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1487823/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t21

Damian Kaner (Elderly Female Vampire)
Last videogame role well in Bloodlines 1. By the way who could this Elderly Female Vampire be? Any ideas?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437555/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t34

Leonard Boyarsky (Carson / Gomez)
Last voice role was in Bloodlines 1. Works with Jason Anderson on The Outer Worlds.
Very unlikely that both are returning even for a very small role.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1802037/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t35

Jay Gordon (Ash / Mitnick / Johnny / Barrabus / Bodyguard)
Last videogame voiceover was Gothic 3 in 2006.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330297/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t18
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 05, 2019, 08:12:03 pm
Holy...

... get her back Brian, she deserves it !
Lets hope so but i think they went with some else. But if i am wrong well she should reprise one of her roles.
Mainly Imalia or Lily. Junkegirl, Hostess or Kiki aren´t that interessing or in Kiki´s case well liked.

By the way i looked through the Vampir Bloodlines IMDb page i found others who hadn´t voiced a videogame for years.
So i would say that the chances aren´t that great for their character to be returning if they stick with the original voiceactor.
But to be honest most their roles aren´t that memorable.

Matt Prescott Morton (Tin Can Bill / Igor / Doomsayer / Guard / Bum)
Last videogame role as Hades in Playstation All-Star Battle Royale   2012
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0608049/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t26

Michael Yama (Wong Ho / Chang Brother)
Last videogame role in Saints Row 2    2008
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0945194/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t28

Josh Paskowitz (Slater)
Last videogame role well in Bloodlines 1
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1487823/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t21

Damian Kaner (Elderly Female Vampire)
Last videogame role well in Bloodlines 1. By the way who could this Elderly Female Vampire be? Any ideas?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437555/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t34

Leonard Boyarsky (Carson / Gomez)
Last voice role was in Bloodlines 1. Works with Jason Anderson on The Outer Worlds.
Very unlikely that both are returning even for a very small role.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1802037/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t35

Jay Gordon (Ash / Mitnick / Johnny / Barrabus / Bodyguard)
Last videogame voiceover was Gothic 3 in 2006.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330297/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t18

Meh. Those people didn't play characters named "Yukie" so they don't matter to me for Bloodlines 2 character return possibilities.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 05, 2019, 08:22:25 pm
Holy...

... get her back Brian, she deserves it !
Lets hope so but i think they went with some else. But if i am wrong well she should reprise one of her roles.
Mainly Imalia or Lily. Junkegirl, Hostess or Kiki aren´t that interessing or in Kiki´s case well liked.

By the way i looked through the Vampir Bloodlines IMDb page i found others who hadn´t voiced a videogame for years.
So i would say that the chances aren´t that great for their character to be returning if they stick with the original voiceactor.
But to be honest most their roles aren´t that memorable.

Matt Prescott Morton (Tin Can Bill / Igor / Doomsayer / Guard / Bum)
Last videogame role as Hades in Playstation All-Star Battle Royale   2012
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0608049/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t26

Michael Yama (Wong Ho / Chang Brother)
Last videogame role in Saints Row 2    2008
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0945194/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t28

Josh Paskowitz (Slater)
Last videogame role well in Bloodlines 1
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1487823/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t21

Damian Kaner (Elderly Female Vampire)
Last videogame role well in Bloodlines 1. By the way who could this Elderly Female Vampire be? Any ideas?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437555/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t34

Leonard Boyarsky (Carson / Gomez)
Last voice role was in Bloodlines 1. Works with Jason Anderson on The Outer Worlds.
Very unlikely that both are returning even for a very small role.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1802037/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t35

Jay Gordon (Ash / Mitnick / Johnny / Barrabus / Bodyguard)
Last videogame voiceover was Gothic 3 in 2006.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330297/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t18

Meh. Those people didn't play characters named "Yukie" so they don't matter to me for Bloodlines 2 character return possibilities.

One of them played Mitnick, one of my favorites, so he matters ;)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 05, 2019, 08:38:06 pm
Meh. Those people didn't play characters named "Yukie" so they don't matter to me for Bloodlines 2 character return possibilities.
Well speaking of Yukie is it correct that we didn´t know her voice actress?

Edit: Edita Brychta (Ming Xiao)
Last videogame role in FF13 2013
She had voiced Ming Xiao and for me this character won´t return because she is in almost all endings besides the Kuei-Jin one dead. ;)
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0117307/?ref_=tt_cl_t9

One of them played Mitnick, one of my favorites, so he matters ;)
Great thing about Mitnick is that he doesn´t have to make visually return.
Like in Bloodlines 1 Mitnick still can communicate with the new playercharacter via Email.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 05, 2019, 08:42:15 pm

Great thing about Mitnick is that he doesn´t have to make visually return.
Like in Bloodlines 1 Mitnick still can communicate with the new playercharacter via Email.

Yeah, but that's not enough Mitnick for me :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 05, 2019, 08:47:59 pm
Yeah, but that's not enough Mitnick for me :)
Ok but would you be ok if Mitnick coming back that his voice actor might have changed?
Like i said his original voice actor Jay Gordon last videogame role was in Gothic 3 and that was in 2006.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 05, 2019, 09:22:45 pm
Yeah, but that's not enough Mitnick for me :)
Ok but would you be ok if Mitnick coming back that his voice actor might have changed?
Like i said his original voice actor Jay Gordon last videogame role was in Gothic 3 and that was in 2006.

Yeah, if the new VA would be as good. And seeing, what great job the new voice actors did with Andrei and Lacroix in the CQM, I think, that would be doable
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 05, 2019, 09:45:17 pm
Yeah, if the new VA would be as good. And seeing, what great job the new voice actors did with Andrei and Lacroix in the CQM, I think, that would be doable
It clearly wouldn´t hurt if they get Margaret Tang the Bloodlines 1 voice director, casting director and dialogue editor back for this scenario.
She would find without any doubt a good replacement for Mitnick if he really returns for Bloodlines 2.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 05, 2019, 11:18:24 pm
Holy...

... get her back Brian, she deserves it !
Lets hope so but i think they went with some else. But if i am wrong well she should reprise one of her roles.
Mainly Imalia or Lily. Junkegirl, Hostess or Kiki aren´t that interessing or in Kiki´s case well liked.

By the way i looked through the Vampir Bloodlines IMDb page i found others who hadn´t voiced a videogame for years.
So i would say that the chances aren´t that great for their character to be returning if they stick with the original voiceactor.
But to be honest most their roles aren´t that memorable.

Matt Prescott Morton (Tin Can Bill / Igor / Doomsayer / Guard / Bum)
Last videogame role as Hades in Playstation All-Star Battle Royale   2012
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0608049/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t26

Michael Yama (Wong Ho / Chang Brother)
Last videogame role in Saints Row 2    2008
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0945194/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t28

Josh Paskowitz (Slater)
Last videogame role well in Bloodlines 1
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1487823/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t21

Damian Kaner (Elderly Female Vampire)
Last videogame role well in Bloodlines 1. By the way who could this Elderly Female Vampire be? Any ideas?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437555/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t34

Leonard Boyarsky (Carson / Gomez)
Last voice role was in Bloodlines 1. Works with Jason Anderson on The Outer Worlds.
Very unlikely that both are returning even for a very small role.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1802037/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t35

Jay Gordon (Ash / Mitnick / Johnny / Barrabus / Bodyguard)
Last videogame voiceover was Gothic 3 in 2006.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330297/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t18

Meh. Those people didn't play characters named "Yukie" so they don't matter to me for Bloodlines 2 character return possibilities.

I liked Ash, would love to see him return, his voice was like fingers gently caressing my spine.  Truth be told though, I don't need any of the original characters to return to enjoy the sequel.  Except for maybe Becket.   
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 06, 2019, 01:05:26 am
I liked Ash, would love to see him return, his voice was like fingers gently caressing my spine.  Truth be told though, I don't need any of the original characters to return to enjoy the sequel.  Except for maybe Becket.

I liked Ash a lot as well. He was probably my favorite Toreador in BL1...

... but I have the distinct feeling he wasn't really the same after his capture by The Society of Leopold.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 06, 2019, 03:52:26 am
I liked Ash, would love to see him return, his voice was like fingers gently caressing my spine.  Truth be told though, I don't need any of the original characters to return to enjoy the sequel.  Except for maybe Becket.

I liked Ash a lot as well. He was probably my favorite Toreador in BL1...

... but I have the distinct feeling he wasn't really the same after his capture by The Society of Leopold.

Maybe he will be an even more interesting character now. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 06, 2019, 04:09:20 am
Maybe he will be an even more interesting character now.

He certainly could be. It's all in Brian's hands now :O !
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 06, 2019, 04:32:00 am
Maybe he will be an even more interesting character now.

He certainly could be. It's all in Brian's hands now :O !

(https://media.giphy.com/media/MBZDKN96hBispNZ5uI/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: z on June 06, 2019, 07:25:52 am
If some characters returns from bloodlines 1 , I hope they personality evolve.

For exemple, maybe Ash could become a psycho-toreador fascinated with torture (because of his misadventures in BL1)
Pisha could become some sort of pristress of death, building some sort a death-sect (since she is fascinated by death and got the Giovanni book)
Knox, the "talkative stupid incompetent"  ghoul, could become a super tracker, the ultimate anti hunter ghoul (since inquisition became a real issue in v5)
Jack could reveal earlier this ultimate manipulative asshole side of him... turning Smiling-Jack into Cynical-Jack, if you know what I mean... 😈 (I'm not even sure if he has high humanity since he compared humans with cows in BL1 haha)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 06, 2019, 09:08:44 am
I liked Ash, would love to see him return, his voice was like fingers gently caressing my spine.  Truth be told though, I don't need any of the original characters to return to enjoy the sequel.  Except for maybe Becket.   
Why should Ash settle down in a big city like Seattle? Have you  forgotten his last line?
"Thanks. You'll never see me again. I'm gonna go somewhere no one will ever... see... this face... again."
The playercharacter can even response with: "Good luck in Canada."

VV makes a lot more sense.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 06, 2019, 09:56:51 am
I liked Ash, would love to see him return, his voice was like fingers gently caressing my spine.  Truth be told though, I don't need any of the original characters to return to enjoy the sequel.  Except for maybe Becket.   
Why should Ash settle down in a big city like Seattle? Have you  forgotten his last line?
"Thanks. You'll never see me again. I'm gonna go somewhere no one will ever... see... this face... again."
The playercharacter can even response with: "Good luck in Canada."

VV makes a lot more sense.

1. A lot can happen in 15 years.

2. I'm going to assume that you are not aware of how very close British Columbia (The Westernmost province of Canada) and Seattle are geographically.  Or how Vancouverites, Victorians and Washingtonians travel back and forth between the countries quite routinely by ferry, car or train.  Vancouver, Victoria and Seattle are all very fun cities so we visit each other all the time...  It wouldn't at all be strange to find someone from Canada chilling for a weekend or even a few weeks in Seattle or another nearby Washingtonian city.  Not even remotely surprising or strange.  In fact I have dated guys from there and it was no hindrance to those relationships that they were there and I was here. If Ash was *really* gonna flee to Canada from LA that is exactly the portion of Canada he would have fled to.  LA, Seattle, British Columbia.  All on the West Coast. 

3.  I'm just sharing what I would like to see, probable or not.  That's what this thread is for. 

When I go to visit Victoria or Vancouver, I prefer to take the ferry, even though it takes the longest because I find it to be the most fun.  I enjoy eating at the galleys, checking out the little shops and just relaxing on the deck, watching the sea. 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/A/9/n/7A9nn/getting-from-seattle-to-vancouver-1482167-FINAL-5b9fa7cbc9e77c0057591189_l.jpg)

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 06, 2019, 01:58:52 pm
1. A lot can happen in 15 years.
I would agree in real life but for a videogame?
The last time we saw Ash was in Leopold and he wanted to flew to somewhere nobody can see him and his face.
So it would be bad writing if this would be ignored in Bloodlines 2.

Quote
2. I'm going to assume that you are not aware of how very close British Columbia (The Westernmost province of Canada) and Seattle are geographically.
Canada is big and not only the Vancouver/British Columbia area. ;)
So no i didn´t get the impression that Ash really want to in this "overpopulated" area. In my imagination its fit more that Ash settle down
in Yukon, Northwest Territories or Nunavut if he really want to hide himself from public.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 06, 2019, 05:06:54 pm
Honestly, Dr. Grout, who is very likely dead, is OK, but everyone else is totally impossible? I'd say it is 100 percent more likely to see Ash than Grout. To only use the last example.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 06, 2019, 05:20:09 pm
Honestly, Dr. Grout, who is very likely dead, is OK, but everyone else is totally impossible? I'd say it is 100 percent more likely to see Ash than Grout. To only use the last example.
Who said "everyone else"? ;)
And Sorry its possible that Grout could faked his death. We don´t  know if this skeleton is really him.

Ash on the other hand could also survived the blast of Leopold cave if the player left him in his cell. Unlikey but possible but this isn´t my point.
He doesn´t have the motivation to be a crowded city like Seattle when you consider his last words in Bloodlines 1.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 06, 2019, 05:43:40 pm
And Sorry its possible that Grout could faked his death. We don´t  know if this skeleton is really him.

We went over this over and over again, it's completely illogical that Grout managed to fake his death for several reasons that were discussed in the other thread. Also what is so important about him or Ash in the first place? I can imagine to meet Jack or Beckett, as these were really cool, but otherwise I want to meet new cool characters in Bloodlines 2 and not unimportant side characters of Bloodlines 1!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 06, 2019, 06:22:08 pm
We went over this over and over again, it's completely illogical that Grout managed to fake his death for several reasons that were discussed in the other thread.
Illogical maybe in certain parts but its could be done. This was also mentioned not just from me but also DarkZephyr.
Over the years i read even worse explanations for characters that had come back.
You can´t top an beheaded Leliana (Dragon Age Origins)

Quote
Also what is so important about him or Ash in the first place?
Grout is an interessing Malkavian and People (and not just me) are fascinated by this character which we only heard by voice.
Or maybe its his voiceactor. ;)

Quote
I can imagine to meet Jack or Beckett, as these were really cool, but otherwise I want to meet new cool characters in Bloodlines 2 and not unimportant side characters of Bloodlines 1!
Its really depends on the specific character and their possible role in Bloodlines 2.
But i would love if we see also besides Jack and Beckett Romero, Bertram, VV, Pisha, Nines or Damsel. I won´t like it personally but Jeanette and Therese
are so big contender for returning characters.

But i partially agree with you unimportant and mainly uninteressing side characters like Kiki, Barabus or all of the Giovannis shouldn´t return for Bloodlines 2.

Edit: Offtopic but Hellyeah to Baldurs Gate 3 made by Larian Studios ( Divinity)!!!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: z on June 06, 2019, 07:10:04 pm
If a character should return, the first question to ask is... "does this character has any other interesting stories to tell ?".
As for Grout, my answer to this question is : I don't think so...
Even if one day a dev or an official book says that he survived, I don't think that would be interesting... What else would Grout bring ? Another crazy Malk dongeon where he can't stop talking about saving his experiences and his wife ? We already went all over the convolutions of his psyche in BL1... So I don't think that telling his story AGAIN would be interesting.

Grout should remain dead.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 06, 2019, 08:14:55 pm
1. A lot can happen in 15 years.
I would agree in real life but for a videogame?
The last time we saw Ash was in Leopold and he wanted to flew to somewhere nobody can see him and his face.
So it would be bad writing if this would be ignored in Bloodlines 2.

Quote
2. I'm going to assume that you are not aware of how very close British Columbia (The Westernmost province of Canada) and Seattle are geographically.
Canada is big and not only the Vancouver/British Columbia area. ;)
So no i didn´t get the impression that Ash really want to in this "overpopulated" area. In my imagination its fit more that Ash settle down
in Yukon, Northwest Territories or Nunavut if he really want to hide himself from public.


"Canada is big" so basically you are saying that its absolutely CRAZY to think Ash might travel 3 and a half hours from Vancouver to visit Seattle for absolutely anything in the last 15 years, but the idea that he traveled from one side of the country thousands of miles to the other side is totally reasonable because "its a video game".  Gotcha.  What a fool I've been. 

To clarify, I do think its reasonable for him to have traveled from one side of Canada to the other in 15 years, but I DON'T think its bonkers to think he might have ended up in Seattle at some point in those 15 years.  I will also add that you don't have to go to densely populated areas to fade into obscurity.  Sometimes going to crowded places can achieve the same outcome.  Do I desperately want Ash to return?  Not even close.  Would I like it if he did?  Yes.  I would love it, he was kinda sexy and his voice was dreamy.  But I don't expect it.  However, this thread is for returning character speculation so I gave my opinion about a character.

Anyway, I don't understand your logic, like AT ALL, but I'm sure it makes great sense to you.  You think whatever you want.  Your theories are all right, everyone else's are utterly impossible rubbish.  Fine, Dude. Only the characters you are interested in seeing could possibly come back, the rest of us are all SOL.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/WOTDxPFISx8KgtuyiV/giphy.gif)

Edit: And for the record, Ash doesn't always end up in the St. Leopold holding cells.  It depends on certain decisions the PC makes in the game. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 06, 2019, 08:22:43 pm
Even if one day a dev or an official book says that he survived, I don't think that would be interesting... What else would Grout bring ? Another crazy Malk dongeon where he can't stop talking about saving his experiences and his wife ? We already went all over the convolutions of his psyche in BL1... So I don't think that telling his story AGAIN would be interesting.
Well for Bloodlines 1 Vets how he had survived the Bloodlines 1 events and the other story would be his wife. Who was she or is she still alive?

"Canada is big" so basically you are saying that its absolutely CRAZY to think Ash might travel 3 and a half hours from Vancouver to visit Seattle for absolutely anything in the last 15 years, but the idea that he traveled from one side of the country thousands of miles to the other side is totally reasonable because "its a video game".  Gotcha.  What a fool I've been.
Fact is this was his last line in Bloodlines 1.
"Thanks. You'll never see me again. I'm gonna go somewhere no one will ever... see... this face... again. "
and these are the player responses
"Goodbye, Ash."  or "Fly away, dead phoenix."
"Don't expect another rescue. Get out of here. or "You will have to learn to walk through walls. I won't free you again."
"Good luck in Canada."

So can we agree on this fact? ;)

Quote
To clarify, I do think its reasonable for him to have traveled from one side of Canada to the other in 15 years, but I DON'T think its bonkers to think he might have ended up in Seattle at some point in those 15 years.  I will also add that you don't have to go to densely populated areas to fade into obscurity.  Sometimes going to crowded places can achieve the same outcome. 
Ash is a famous Hollywoodstar and therefore a well known person. Therefore i very doubt that he can hide in a city like Seattle.
My point is and thats why i have quote the last Bloodlines 1 dialogue with Ash is that he want to live a Life where he won´t be recognized.
If he really wants to hide in Seattle well this wouldn´t a big difference if he still lives in Los Angeles.
Yeah of course you can argue that people change over the years but Ash isn´t a real person.

And my big problem with your explanation is that i clearly don´t want that Ash last line become absolute pointless and get ignored by the authors.
Therefore for me at least it makes no sense that we will see Ash in bigger cities ever again.

Quote
Anyway, I don't understand your logic, like AT ALL, but I'm sure it makes great sense to you.  You think whatever you want.  Your theories are all right, everyone else's are utterly impossible rubbish.  Fine, Dude. Only the characters you are interested in seeing could possibly come back, the rest of us are all SOL.
This is a discussion thread with different arguments.
It would really boring if we would share the same wishes or opinions. ;)

Quote
Edit: And for the record, Ash doesn't always end up in the St. Leopold holding cells.  It depends on certain decisions the PC makes in the game.
It doesn´t matter for my example. Its possible that he won´t be in the cell if you didn´t do his first quest.
But you also can left him in his cell when whole cave blows up.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 06, 2019, 09:25:18 pm
Well for Bloodlines 1 Vets how he had survived the Bloodlines 1 events and the other story would be his wife. Who was she or is she still alive?

Yeah, I would really like to see him return and explain all the plotholes away, like why he was hidden somewhere but left his wife in the open.

Quote
And my big problem with your explanation is that i clearly don´t want that Ash last line become absolute pointless and get ignored by the authors.

But you clearly want all evidence that Grout is dead be absolute pointless and be ignored by the authors. You really have double standards here!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 06, 2019, 10:03:14 pm
And my big problem with your explanation is that i clearly don´t want that Ash last line become absolute pointless and get ignored by the authors.
Therefore for me at least it makes no sense that we will see Ash in bigger cities ever again.

That's your interpretation. For my part I just figured he was going to have his face or appearance altered in some way (WoD vampires CAN have that done), not that he was going to go live the life of a hermit in the woods out in the Ozarks somewhere. 

This is a discussion thread with different arguments.
It would really boring if we would share the same wishes or opinions. ;)

I agree and that would all be fine and good if I my initial statement had been some kind of elaborate argument about why he SHOULD be in the game, but all I originally said was that IF he appeared in the game, I would love it.  I also added "Truth be told though, I don't need any of the original characters to return to enjoy the sequel.  Except for maybe Becket".

I maintain my original stance.  Though he probably won't, if he shows up in the sequel, I will love it. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/S9DtarHDNt7NbCH2wh/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: z on June 06, 2019, 10:40:06 pm
I would love if BL2 writes some references of Christof (Redemption) and the Main Character from BL1 as well :)

I think that the "official story" suggests that Jeanette might have killed Lacroix. But what if we could find some hidden chronicles/journal/recording where Jeanette took the blame to protect the Main Character of BL1 from the wrath of the Camarilla ?
Maybe MC and Jeanette actually became bloodbond (you lose blood after the "sex" with Jeanette in BL1)... Maybe Jeanette endorsed Lacroix's murder because... killing a powerful vampire like Jeanette with influence in 3 cities should be more difficult than killing a random neonate without any solid backing, right ?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 07, 2019, 03:31:41 am
(https://media.giphy.com/media/S9DtarHDNt7NbCH2wh/giphy.gif)

Oh lord... Supergirl is really pretty.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 07, 2019, 04:48:25 am
(https://media.giphy.com/media/S9DtarHDNt7NbCH2wh/giphy.gif)

Oh lord... Supergirl is really pretty.

That she is.  And the original screen Supergirl was quite lovely as well, Helen Slater.  Nowadays though she's better known as Eilza Danvers, Supergirl's mother on the current TV show.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/AHQaeKy9pbJfi/giphy.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/4O5aeWw50ItTW/giphy.gif)

But to get back on topic, another character I might enjoy seeing making a return is Bertram Tung. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 07, 2019, 06:03:40 am
I would love if BL2 writes some references of Christof (Redemption) and the Main Character from BL1 as well :)

I think that the "official story" suggests that Jeanette might have killed Lacroix. But what if we could find some hidden chronicles/journal/recording where Jeanette took the blame to protect the Main Character of BL1 from the wrath of the Camarilla ?
Maybe MC and Jeanette actually became bloodbond (you lose blood after the "sex" with Jeanette in BL1)... Maybe Jeanette endorsed Lacroix's murder because... killing a powerful vampire like Jeanette with influence in 3 cities should be more difficult than killing a random neonate without any solid backing, right ?

Speaking from Dragon Age experience, it is sometimes better not to rely on pcs from past games too much. I for example would have a big problem with being bloodbound to  Jeannette, no way, my characters would do that, some of them even killed Jeanette.
A mentioning would be OK, but no assuming, what the character did or not did, that always ends up in disappointment.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 07, 2019, 06:49:27 am
I would love if BL2 writes some references of Christof (Redemption) and the Main Character from BL1 as well :)

I think that the "official story" suggests that Jeanette might have killed Lacroix. But what if we could find some hidden chronicles/journal/recording where Jeanette took the blame to protect the Main Character of BL1 from the wrath of the Camarilla ?
Maybe MC and Jeanette actually became bloodbond (you lose blood after the "sex" with Jeanette in BL1)... Maybe Jeanette endorsed Lacroix's murder because... killing a powerful vampire like Jeanette with influence in 3 cities should be more difficult than killing a random neonate without any solid backing, right ?

Speaking from Dragon Age experience, it is sometimes better not to rely on pcs from past games too much. I for example would have a big problem with being bloodbound to  Jeannette, no way, my characters would do that, some of them even killed Jeanette.
A mentioning would be OK, but no assuming, what the character did or not did, that always ends up in disappointment.

Besides, the "coffin bomb" was a great way to kill LaCroix in the narrative and changing that to something else cheapens Jack's role in Bloodlines 1...not to mention NO endings in Bloodlines 1 have Jeanette killing Jack.

Also, the one blood point you lose in bed with Jeanette would not in any way imply that you are blood bonded to her. The blood point is to represent the expenditure of blood to use the "blush of life," which lets you have sex if your humanity is 4 or higher (I think 4 is the right number). Moreover, being blood bound means you consumed another Kindred's blood...so if your blood went down, then if ANYTHING, that means Jeanette drank YOUR blood so she would be blood bound to the player instead of the other way around.

But anyway, that's neither here nor there because it's just a blood point being spent to blush of life.

And folks, Supergirl is awful. I watched the first two seasons and it was really difficult to sit through.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 07, 2019, 09:45:32 am
Speaking from Dragon Age experience, it is sometimes better not to rely on pcs from past games too much. I for example would have a big problem with being bloodbound to  Jeannette, no way, my characters would do that, some of them even killed Jeanette.
A mentioning would be OK, but no assuming, what the character did or not did, that always ends up in disappointment.

I liked the return of Isabella from Dragon Age Origins to Dragon Age 2, I LOVED the return of Varic from Dragon Age 2 to Dragon Age Inquisition, Cullen was a great addition to every DA game he was featured in.  Baldur's Gate II would have been nonsensical if NONE of the companions from part 1 had returned for the sequel.  And what would the Mass Effect trilogy have been w/out returning NPCs and companions? It would have been an Anthology series, not a Trilogy.

That being said, I don't think Bloodlines 2 will be the type of game that will need any returning NPCs but a few cameos done well would be nice.  I think many fans are hoping for some, maybe even expecting them. 

And folks, Supergirl is awful. I watched the first two seasons and it was really difficult to sit through.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6Mb8LSskN99WhN6g/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 07, 2019, 11:46:07 am
Speaking from Dragon Age experience, it is sometimes better not to rely on pcs from past games too much. I for example would have a big problem with being bloodbound to  Jeannette, no way, my characters would do that, some of them even killed Jeanette.
A mentioning would be OK, but no assuming, what the character did or not did, that always ends up in disappointment.

I liked the return of Isabella from Dragon Age Origins to Dragon Age 2, I LOVED the return of Varic from Dragon Age 2 to Dragon Age Inquisition, Cullen was a great addition to every DA game he was featured in.  Baldur's Gate II would have been nonsensical if NONE of the companions from part 1 had returned for the sequel.  And what would the Mass Effect trilogy have been w/out returning NPCs and companions? It would have been an Anthology series, not a Trilogy.

That being said, I don't think Bloodlines 2 will be the type of game that will need any returning NPCs but a few cameos done well would be nice.  I think many fans are hoping for some, maybe even expecting them. 

And folks, Supergirl is awful. I watched the first two seasons and it was really difficult to sit through.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6Mb8LSskN99WhN6g/giphy.gif)

Npcs are OK, Varric is my favorite character, so hopefully he will be back. But PC is tricky, remember the bloidmahic hating Hawke in Dai, when you can play a blood age in DA2, doesn't make sense and some people were not happy with it. Or HoF missing in action while seeking for a cure.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 07, 2019, 12:38:55 pm
Npcs are OK, Varric is my favorite character, so hopefully he will be back. But PC is tricky, remember the bloidmahic hating Hawke in Dai, when you can play a blood age in DA2, doesn't make sense and some people were not happy with it. Or HoF missing in action while seeking for a cure.

True.  Hawke did have some annoying qualities in DAI.  I must have misunderstood what you were saying. 

I will say that I got a kick out of the Dragonborn running into the Hero of Kvatch (the PC from Oblivion), as the new Sheogorath in Skyrim. I thought that was done pretty well. 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/A/o/A/7AoAV/Hero%20of%20Kvatch_l.jpg)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 07, 2019, 02:32:39 pm
Npcs are OK, Varric is my favorite character, so hopefully he will be back. But PC is tricky, remember the bloidmahic hating Hawke in Dai, when you can play a blood age in DA2, doesn't make sense and some people were not happy with it. Or HoF missing in action while seeking for a cure.

True.  Hawke did have some annoying qualities in DAI.  I must have misunderstood what you were saying. 

I will say that I got a kick out of the Dragonborn running into the Hero of Kvatch (the PC from Oblivion), as the new Sheogorath in Skyrim. I thought that was done pretty well. 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/A/o/A/7AoAV/Hero%20of%20Kvatch_l.jpg)

I don't know, the Hero of Kvatch can be any race and gender and I guess, for Skyrim they did choose one specific character? I really can't stand it. Like Revan being a white male in Star Wars Canon now and she is an Asian female in my games. I'm a bit sensible, when devs meddle with my characters :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 07, 2019, 02:46:35 pm
I don't know, the Hero of Kvatch can be any race and gender and I guess, for Skyrim they did choose one specific character? I really can't stand it. Like Revan being a white male in Star Wars Canon now and she is an Asian female in my games. I'm a bit sensible, when devs meddle with my characters :)

Daedric Princes have no gender at all.  They choose to appear in whatever form they wish at any given moment.  The New Sheogorath appearing in the more traditional form does not mean that Sheogorath didn't start out as a woman or didn't start out as an elf, orc or Argonian.  It just means that this individual grew into his/her station as a Daedric Prince, as Jyggalag suggested they would.  A powerful, undying divine being that can choose their gender on a whim.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 07, 2019, 05:05:04 pm
Yeah, I would really like to see him return and explain all the plotholes away, like why he was hidden somewhere but left his wife in the open.
Is she really that unsafe in this tank? ;)
It could a bulletproof / ballistic glass.

Quote
But you clearly want all evidence that Grout is dead be absolute pointless and be ignored by the authors. You really have double standards here!
Let me quote from his Wiki entry: "It is very, very unlikely that a vampire of such an age would leave a skeleton after his Final Death. This allows presuming that Alistair went into hiding and left some younger vampire to be killed instead. (Or that the creators of the game are under no obligation to follow every single rule in the VTM's book.) "
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Alistair_Grout
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 07, 2019, 05:06:37 pm
I don't know, the Hero of Kvatch can be any race and gender and I guess, for Skyrim they did choose one specific character? I really can't stand it. Like Revan being a white male in Star Wars Canon now and she is an Asian female in my games. I'm a bit sensible, when devs meddle with my characters :)

Daedric Princes have no gender at all.  They choose to appear in whatever form they wish at any given moment.  The New Sheogorath appearing in the more traditional form does not mean that Sheogorath didn't start out as a woman or didn't start out as an elf, orc or Argonian.  It just means that this individual grew into his/her station as a Daedric Prince, as Jyggalag suggested they would.  A powerful, undying divine being that can choose their gender on a whim.

I have to say it, sorry:Sounds a bit like Sascha Vykos XD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 07, 2019, 05:09:12 pm
That's your interpretation. For my part I just figured he was going to have his face or appearance altered in some way (WoD vampires CAN have that done), not that he was going to go live the life of a hermit in the woods out in the Ozarks somewhere. 
But he said it: "I'm gonna go somewhere no one will ever... see... this face... again". Go somewhere is quite definite but hey almost everything is open for interpretation. ;)

I would love if BL2 writes some references of Christof (Redemption) and the Main Character from BL1 as well :)
I really hope that the Bloodlines 1  Playercharacter won´t show up or even get mentioned in Bloodlines 2.
Hawke or Revan were bad enough so no thanks.

And for Christof it would make more sense if we you see him and or get a reference in Vampire: The Masquerade - Coteries of New York.

Quote
I think that the "official story" suggests that Jeanette might have killed Lacroix. But what if we could find some hidden chronicles/journal/recording where Jeanette took the blame to protect the Main Character of BL1 from the wrath of the Camarilla ?
Maybe MC and Jeanette actually became bloodbond (you lose blood after the "sex" with Jeanette in BL1)... Maybe Jeanette endorsed Lacroix's murder because... killing a powerful vampire like Jeanette with influence in 3 cities should be more difficult than killing a random neonate without any solid backing, right ?
Terrible idea. The only suggestion is that she had sleep with LaCroix. Also should the main character get protected by Jeanette or Therese?
He/She is crazy powerful for a (Neonate) Vampire. Leading a killing spree through the Sabbat, Kuei Jin and LaCroix Camarilla is quite an accomplishment.
So i don´t think he/she needs protection or wants it if the lone wolf ending was chosen.

That being said, I don't think Bloodlines 2 will be the type of game that will need any returning NPCs but a few cameos done well would be nice.  I think many fans are hoping for some, maybe even expecting them. 
They aren´t that many which are interesting and also alive.
Most Bloodlines 1 characters are mostly one note characters but this is better than most Bethesda or recent Bioware Characters.
For a better overview here the Wiki Bloodlines 1 character list minus Romero (why Wiki?)
https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Characters

Most characters clearly can be ruled out.

Here is my list with possible returning characters:
Los Angeles Camerilla: Bertram Tung, Maximillan Strauss and Therese Voerman
LA Sabbat: Nobody
LA Anarchs: Nines Rodriguez, Smiling Jack, Damsel, Velvet Velvour, Jeanette Voerman (ok you guys could also add Ash if you wish ;)
LA Kuei-Jin: Nobody
Hunters: Jukie
Hollywood Nosferatu: Mitnick and Imalia
Giovanni: Nobody

Brotherhood of the 9th Circle: Nobody all dead
LA Thinbloods: Rosa, Lily and E
Independents: Beckett, Pisha, Cabdriver/Caine and Mr. Ox (he is clearly not human)
Ghouls: Romero and Vandal Cleaver
Los Angeles Police / Security: Nobody
Russian Mob: Nobody
Tong: Nobody
Friendly Humans: Nobody
Hostile Humans: Nobody all dead
Other Characters: Deb of Night (hopeful DLC) and of course maybe Dr. Alistair Grout with wife. Only maybe but not impossible. ;)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 07, 2019, 06:10:44 pm
I don't know, the Hero of Kvatch can be any race and gender and I guess, for Skyrim they did choose one specific character? I really can't stand it. Like Revan being a white male in Star Wars Canon now and she is an Asian female in my games. I'm a bit sensible, when devs meddle with my characters :)

Daedric Princes have no gender at all.  They choose to appear in whatever form they wish at any given moment.  The New Sheogorath appearing in the more traditional form does not mean that Sheogorath didn't start out as a woman or didn't start out as an elf, orc or Argonian.  It just means that this individual grew into his/her station as a Daedric Prince, as Jyggalag suggested they would.  A powerful, undying divine being that can choose their gender on a whim.

I have to say it, sorry:Sounds a bit like Sascha Vykos XD

OR like our PC in most RPGs at character creation.  lol

They aren´t that many which are interessing and also alive.
Most Bloodlines 1 characters are mostly one note characters but this better than most Bethesda or recent Bioware Characters.
For a better overview here the Wiki Bloodlines 1 character list minus Romero (why Wiki?)
https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Characters

Most characters clearly can be ruled out.

Here is mine list with possible returning characters:
Los Angeles Camerilla: Bertram Tung, Maximillan Strauss and Therese Voerman
LA Sabbat: Nobody
LA Anarchs: Nines Rodriguez, Smiling Jack, Damsel, Velvet Velvour, Jeanette Voerman (ok you guys could also add Ash if you wish ;)
LA Kuei-Jin: Nobody
Hunters: Jukie
Hollywood Nosferatu: Mitnick and Imalia
Giovanni: Nobody

Brotherhood of the 9th Circle: Nobody all dead
LA Thinbloods: Rosa, Lily and E
Independents:  Beckett, Pisha, Cabdriver/Caine and Mr. Ox (he is clearly not human)
Ghouls: Romero and Vandal Cleaver
Los Angeles Police / Security: Nobody
Russian Mob: Nobody
Tong: Nobody
Friendly Humans: Nobody
Hostile Humans: Nobody all dead
Other Characters: Deb of Night (hopeful DLC) and of course maybe Dr. Alistair Grout with wife. Only maybe but not impossible. ;)

That list doesn't sound like "very few" to me.  Sounds like "very plenty".  lol
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 07, 2019, 06:15:49 pm
Is she really that unsafe in this tank? ;)
It could a bulletproof / ballistic glass.

This would not help against supernaturals, so I still see how he could leave her open to be attacked while hiding himself.

Quote
Let me quote from his Wiki entry: "It is very, very unlikely that a vampire of such an age would leave a skeleton after his Final Death. This allows presuming that Alistair went into hiding and left some younger vampire to be killed instead. (Or that the creators of the game are under no obligation to follow every single rule in the VTM's book.) "

Besides the fact that this wiki entry was written by conspiracy theory fans like yourself, this is clearly just a gameplay problem. All vampires you kill in Bloodlines don't leave skeletons, although most of them are very young, e.g. all the Sabbat shovelheads or thin bloods. How do you explain that with your precious vampire-age theory? It's very obvious this was done because it looks cooler and Grout's skeleton is visible because otherwise the player would get no info whatsoever about his death. Also Grout isn't really that old, he was probably embraced when Dr. Freud was still alive around 1930, so why should his skeleton decompose?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 07, 2019, 06:19:07 pm
That list doesn't sound like "very few" to me.  Sounds like "very plenty".  lol
This is only a list with all possible returning characters but i really don´t expect that all of them return. ;)
Also don´t forget Jeanette and Therese are one person.

My personal list would be Bertram, maybe Max Strauss, Jeanette/Therese (not a big fan but they are the most iconic character they will of course return),
Smiling Jack, VV, Rosa, Beckett, Cabdriver and Romero.
Thats all and more than enough.

This would not help against supernaturals, so I still see how he could leave her open to be attacked while hiding himself.
Maybe i didn´t believe that someone would attact his wife? Why should they?
Only his crazy ghouls can get problematic and could damage the tank. But its enough to destroy and endanger his wife?

Quote
Besides the fact that this wiki entry was written by conspiracy theory fans like yourself, this is clearly just a gameplay problem. All vampires you kill in Bloodlines don't leave skeletons, although most of them are very young, e.g. all the Sabbat shovelheads or thin bloods. How do you explain that with your precious vampire-age theory? It's very obvious this was done because it looks cooler and Grout's skeleton is visible because otherwise the player would get no info whatsoever about his death. Also Grout isn't really that old, he was probably embraced around 1930, so why should his skeleton decompose on the spot?
To be honest i never really thought anything about his skeleton over the years but i am never called myself a Vampire Masquerade expert.
But the wiki guys have a point. Overall the whole scene is strange and on what did Grout died? There is just a skeleton covered in ashes and with a stake.
I don´t say that your explanation isn´t pausible hell the Wiki even acknowledged this but i can also see their argument.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 07, 2019, 08:07:08 pm
Maybe i didn´t believe that someone would attact his wife? Why should they?

Because they could get to him using his wife? E.g. blackmail him to come out. Just admit it makes no sense at all to leave her defenseless in the open when his voices tell him HE wants to destroy him!

Quote
I don´t say that your explanation isn´t pausible hell the Wiki even acknowledged this but i can also see their argument.

Yeah, I just added this some time ago, to prove to you that anyone can write there whatever they want. Also I forgot the Ming argument which I will add right now :)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 07, 2019, 11:22:12 pm
OK.  Those of you totally against the "Grout faked his death" theory, PLEASE don't hate me for what I am about to post.  lol 

Anyway, I have been doing some thinking.  And while I DID bring up the wife thing in the dedicated Grout thread, I have been pondering the absurdity of what we see with our eyes in the mansion.  One thing I have noticed about the woman in the glass tank is that there is nothing indicating that she is in fact his wife.  Nothing beyond our own assumptions.  I do not dive very deeply into the game assets when I make tiny attempts to mod the game aesthetically, so I do not know what that "lady in the glass" is labeled as, perhaps "Grout's Wife", but as we have learned from other games, unseen names of game assets are not canon aspects of the story. 

In the recordings, he says he "took precautions" to keep her safe, he doesn't say "I placed her in a breakable glass tank in suspended animation on full display for all who might attack me to easily see and have access to".  Just as it would be absurd to believe he would just leave her body there while he made his escape after a faked death owing to how much he loved his wife, I also find it just as preposterous to believe that he would have put her on full display in that blatantly obvious thing in the first place while he was behind a locked door in the next room making people HAVE to pass her to get to him....or that the dome she was being kept in would somehow be part of the mechanism to unlock his bedroom door and set off his musical alarm system which to me would be the final insult to his love for his wife. 

Even in my first first playthrough ever of this game 11 or 12 years ago, that struck me as extremely disrespectful, so I do remember quite clearly thinking to myself "He either lost his mind so much that he stopped caring about her completely or that's NOT his wife, but some kind of diversion instead".  Then I went into his room, found the skeleton the quest was completed, and it faded to the back of my mind as I continued to play the game, first having to deal with that a**hole hunter Grünfeld Bach.  But it never really totally went away and recently the memory popped back into the forefront of my mind.

Perhaps its far fetched that the woman in the glass is not his wife but merely a decoy, but what is ultimately made to look like the facts to our eyes would have seemed to me to be pretty far fetched too if someone were to describe it to me before I actually saw it.  In fact I think it would be more far fetched to my ears than if someone were to add "But it was really just a decoy!"   

As for Ming, as I mentioned in the other thread before I mentioned him not leaving his wife like that, if Grout had something that he could barter with, information on Kindred or something else useful he discovered in his many years of research, she would have kept him alive and aided in his escape and faked death and safe transport of his wife to obtain it.  She was never above double dealings and shady alliances if they benefited her.  If this were the case here, she may have intended to betray Grout later on, in fact I am almost sure she would have, but she was ultimately slain by the protagonist before she could have done anything about it. 

At any rate, in the long run I do think it very unlikely that Grout will make a return and that it probably was Grout in that bed and his wife preposterously and disrespectfully placed in that dome, BUT it doesn't *have* to be in my opinion.  It could be retconned by decent writers in the sequel, this I believe though others might disagree. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 07, 2019, 11:51:30 pm
OK.  Those of you totally against the "Grout faked his death" theory, PLEASE don't hate me for what I am about to post.  lol 

Anyway, I have been doing some thinking.  And while I DID bring up the wife thing in the dedicated Grout thread, I have been pondering the absurdity of what we see with our eyes in the mansion.  One thing I have noticed about the woman in the glass tank is that there is nothing indicating that she is in fact his wife.  Nothing beyond our own assumptions.  I do not dive very deeply into the game assets when I make tiny attempts to mod the game aesthetically, so I do not know what that "lady in the glass" is labeled as, perhaps "Grout's Wife", but as we have learned from other games, unseen names of game assets are not canon aspects of the story. 

In the recordings, he says he "took precautions" to keep her safe, he doesn't say "I placed her in a breakable glass tank in suspended animation on full display for all who might attack me to easily see and have access to".  Just as it would be absurd to believe he would just leave her body there while he made his escape after a faked death owing to how much he loved his wife, I also find it just as preposterous to believe that he would have put her on full display in that blatantly obvious thing in the first place while he was behind a locked door in the next room making people HAVE to pass her to get to him....or that the dome she was being kept in would somehow be part of the mechanism to unlock his bedroom door and set off his musical alarm system which to me would be the final insult to his love for his wife. 

Even in my first first playthrough ever of this game 11 or 12 years ago, that struck me as extremely disrespectful, so I do remember quite clearly thinking to myself "He either lost his mind so much that he stopped caring about her completely or that's NOT his wife, but some kind of diversion instead".  Then I went into his room, found the skeleton the quest was completed, and it faded to the back of my mind as I continued to play the game, first having to deal with that a**hole hunter Grünfeld Bach.  But it never really totally went away and recently the memory popped back into the forefront of my mind.

Perhaps its far fetched that the woman in the glass is not his wife but merely a decoy, but what is ultimately made to look like the facts to our eyes would have seemed to me to be pretty far fetched too if someone were to describe it to me before I actually saw it.  In fact I think it would be more far fetched to my ears than if someone were to add "But it was really just a decoy!"   

As for Ming, as I mentioned in the other thread before I mentioned him not leaving his wife like that, if Grout had something that he could barter with, information on Kindred or something else useful he discovered in his many years of research, she would have kept him alive and aided in his escape and faked death and safe transport of his wife to obtain it.  She was never above double dealings and shady alliances if they benefited her.  If this were the case here, she may have intended to betray Grout later on, in fact I am almost sure she would have, but she was ultimately slain by the protagonist before she could have done anything about it. 

At any rate, in the long run I do think it very unlikely that Grout will make a return and that it probably was Grout in that bed and his wife preposterously and disrespectfully placed in that dome, BUT it doesn't *have* to be in my opinion.  It could be retconned by decent writers in the sequel, this I believe though others might disagree.

She's probably just suspended in clear butterscotch pudding (as is tradition).

Also, your request that we not hate you made my mind wander to those "Coexist" bumper stickers, and I started thinking that a Coexist sticker would be cool made up of VtM clan symbols with some liberties for the appearance (such as using the Giovanni 'G') and such.

Unfortunately, the end result would be people not getting that it's a parody and that it's VtM stuff, the onlooker just assuming (fairly by the appearance of the sticker) that I'm one of those idiots with a Coexist sticker.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 08, 2019, 12:20:03 am
She's probably just suspended in clear butterscotch pudding (as is tradition).

Also, your request that we not hate you made my mind wander to those "Coexist" bumper stickers, and I started thinking that a Coexist sticker would be cool made up of VtM clan symbols with some liberties for the appearance (such as using the Giovanni 'G') and such.

Unfortunately, the end result would be people not getting that it's a parody and that it's VtM stuff, the onlooker just assuming (fairly by the appearance of the sticker) that I'm one of those idiots with a Coexist sticker.

That would be cool, I keep a coexist pride flag, actually.  I enjoy getting along with others, even if I disagree with them about some things..even if I disagree with them about many things.  I never really saw "live and let live" attitudes as being particularly idiotic, personally.  lol

(https://tinyurl.com/y4yo85dz)
Picture I stole from Amazon, but this is what mine looks like.

But yeah, if something like that could be constructed out of clan, bloodline and faction symbols, that would be pretty bad ass.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 08, 2019, 02:39:13 am
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6Mb8LSskN99WhN6g/giphy.gif)

Well... CW shows are kind of silly xD...

Still... DAT Supergirl...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on June 08, 2019, 03:52:53 am
I rather liked all the "old friends" and acquaintances that showed up in Gothic II.   
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 08, 2019, 04:20:05 am
She's probably just suspended in clear butterscotch pudding (as is tradition).

Also, your request that we not hate you made my mind wander to those "Coexist" bumper stickers, and I started thinking that a Coexist sticker would be cool made up of VtM clan symbols with some liberties for the appearance (such as using the Giovanni 'G') and such.

Unfortunately, the end result would be people not getting that it's a parody and that it's VtM stuff, the onlooker just assuming (fairly by the appearance of the sticker) that I'm one of those idiots with a Coexist sticker.

That would be cool, I keep a coexist pride flag, actually.  I enjoy getting along with others, even if I disagree with them about some things..even if I disagree with them about many things.  I never really saw "live and let live" attitudes as being particularly idiotic, personally.  lol

(https://tinyurl.com/y4yo85dz)
Picture I stole from Amazon, but this is what mine looks like.

But yeah, if something like that could be constructed out of clan, bloodline and faction symbols, that would be pretty bad ass.

Visually spiffy, though one group on there may as well use the swastika considering who it wants to wipe out as per standing orders of the religion itself, without any subsequent religious texts suspending the religiously ordained genocide.

Coexistence would be great, but unless they betray their religion's standing orders, I'll get decapitated (unless I join their religion under threat of the sword) and you'll get stoned to death at the base of a building after being thrown from the roof, respectively, if we ever tread to far into their nations of horrible laws. D':
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 08, 2019, 05:37:14 am
She's probably just suspended in clear butterscotch pudding (as is tradition).

Also, your request that we not hate you made my mind wander to those "Coexist" bumper stickers, and I started thinking that a Coexist sticker would be cool made up of VtM clan symbols with some liberties for the appearance (such as using the Giovanni 'G') and such.

Unfortunately, the end result would be people not getting that it's a parody and that it's VtM stuff, the onlooker just assuming (fairly by the appearance of the sticker) that I'm one of those idiots with a Coexist sticker.

That would be cool, I keep a coexist pride flag, actually.  I enjoy getting along with others, even if I disagree with them about some things..even if I disagree with them about many things.  I never really saw "live and let live" attitudes as being particularly idiotic, personally.  lol

(https://tinyurl.com/y4yo85dz)
Picture I stole from Amazon, but this is what mine looks like.

But yeah, if something like that could be constructed out of clan, bloodline and faction symbols, that would be pretty bad ass.

Visually spiffy, though one group on there may as well use the swastika considering who it wants to wipe out as per standing orders of the religion itself, without any subsequent religious texts suspending the religiously ordained genocide.

Coexistence would be great, but unless they betray their religion's standing orders, I'll get decapitated (unless I join their religion under threat of the sword) and you'll get stoned to death at the base of a building after being thrown from the roof, respectively, if we ever tread to far into their nations of horrible laws. D':

If I was going to worry about the official teachings of every religion, as a gay man, I would have to erase more than one symbol off of that flag.  I prefer to judge people as individuals and not only have I known people from a certain 3 of those religions, I have dated people from all 3 of them.  Besides, many of those religions have disparate sects that aren't as hateful, doctrinally speaking as the original mother faiths.  You won't find me strolling the streets of Istanbul or even worse, Saudi Arabia or Egypt, especially with a gay pride flag, but you won't find me strolling the streets of Russia or Northern Africa like that either.

I'm an agnostic.  Religion has done much to hurt me and push me away.  Maybe one of these days I will share specific stories.  But as I said, I judge people as individuals, regardless of what symbol or book they cherish as sacred. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 08, 2019, 06:46:18 am
She's probably just suspended in clear butterscotch pudding (as is tradition).

Also, your request that we not hate you made my mind wander to those "Coexist" bumper stickers, and I started thinking that a Coexist sticker would be cool made up of VtM clan symbols with some liberties for the appearance (such as using the Giovanni 'G') and such.

Unfortunately, the end result would be people not getting that it's a parody and that it's VtM stuff, the onlooker just assuming (fairly by the appearance of the sticker) that I'm one of those idiots with a Coexist sticker.

That would be cool, I keep a coexist pride flag, actually.  I enjoy getting along with others, even if I disagree with them about some things..even if I disagree with them about many things.  I never really saw "live and let live" attitudes as being particularly idiotic, personally.  lol

(https://tinyurl.com/y4yo85dz)
Picture I stole from Amazon, but this is what mine looks like.

But yeah, if something like that could be constructed out of clan, bloodline and faction symbols, that would be pretty bad ass.

Visually spiffy, though one group on there may as well use the swastika considering who it wants to wipe out as per standing orders of the religion itself, without any subsequent religious texts suspending the religiously ordained genocide.

Coexistence would be great, but unless they betray their religion's standing orders, I'll get decapitated (unless I join their religion under threat of the sword) and you'll get stoned to death at the base of a building after being thrown from the roof, respectively, if we ever tread to far into their nations of horrible laws. D':

If I was going to worry about the official teachings of every religion, as a gay man, I would have to erase more than one symbol off of that flag.  I prefer to judge people as individuals and not only have I known people from a certain 3 of those religions, I have dated people from all 3 of them.  Besides, many of those religions have disparate sects that aren't as hateful, doctrinally speaking as the original mother faiths.  You won't find me strolling the streets of Istanbul or even worse, Saudi Arabia or Egypt, especially with a gay pride flag, but you won't find me strolling the streets of Russia or Northern Africa like that either.

I'm an agnostic.  Religion has done much to hurt me and push me away.  Maybe one of these days I will share specific stories.  But as I said, I judge people as individuals, regardless of what symbol or book they cherish as sacred.

Unfortunately, some people do not read the religious texts to completion and just search for whatever they can use out of context as a cudgel against those with whom they disagree. Unless it's "the religion of peace," which has no "stand-down" orders or "new way" within its non-cult texts for killing gays, Christians, and Jews.

As for gay pride, I think it's incredibly silly. Should I have straight pride? Why? I was born straight. I was born white. Should I now have white pride? I was born male. Male pride? Pride of one's inborn biology is an inherently silly premise at best, and grossly supremacist at worst. The Nazis really liked this ideology of celebrating certain inborn qualities. That Aryan pride. =/
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 08, 2019, 07:54:58 am
As for gay pride, I think it's incredibly silly. Should I have straight pride? Why? I was born straight. I was born white. Should I now have white pride? I was born male. Male pride? Pride of one's inborn biology is an inherently silly premise at best, and grossly supremacist at worst. The Nazis really liked this ideology of celebrating certain inborn qualities. That Aryan pride. =/

I wouldn't care if there was straight pride, as a matter of fact, Boston will be having a Straight Pride parade this year.  I don't see the point of straight pride when every day is by default, straight pride, but its none of my business either. 

Actually, I was gearing up to explain why LGBT pride exists in this big long set of paragraphs (even longer than this one lol), but why?  Its OK if you think its silly.  I am not offended or anything.  For now, I will just say that we have our reasons for having LGBT pride that go back to the Stonewall riots and are related to how we are often treated by greater society and how we sometimes perceive ourselves after being bullied.  Its not mandatory for anyone who finds it silly to attend.  I will add that 50% of LGBT pride attendees and celebrators are heterosexual cis people and they have a great time when they join us.  If we were elitists or supremacists we wouldn't welcome them with open arms and love.  Pride is not about celebrating how much better we are than straights, because we aren't.  its about reminding ourselves in the face of adversity that we're just as good as straight people and we have nothing to be ashamed of.  Straight people don't really need that reminder, but if they want it and they want to put something like that together, I say more power to them.  They got a permit for it in Boston after all.  I'm sure they can do so elsewhere as well.

I have fun with LGBT pride and I enjoy it very much, but I also remember why it exists in the first place.  I can't wait til the day arrives when its just a happy celebration of the triumphs of the past like MANY other holidays are and we no longer have to worry about many of the things we still have to worry about today.

Edit:  BTW if there was a Straight Pride in Seattle I might attend and whoop and cheer and say "Hurrah for straight people!"  My shirt might say on the back "Straight Ally" and on the front it would read something like this: 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/A/A/R/7AARV/Straight%20People_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 08, 2019, 11:22:20 am
As for gay pride, I think it's incredibly silly. Should I have straight pride? Why? I was born straight. I was born white. Should I now have white pride? I was born male. Male pride? Pride of one's inborn biology is an inherently silly premise at best, and grossly supremacist at worst. The Nazis really liked this ideology of celebrating certain inborn qualities. That Aryan pride. =/

I wouldn't care if there was straight pride, as a matter of fact, Boston will be having a Straight Pride parade this year.  I don't see the point of straight pride when every day is by default, straight pride, but its none of my business either. 

Actually, I was gearing up to explain why LGBT pride exists in this big long set of paragraphs (even longer than this one lol), but why?  Its OK if you think its silly.  I am not offended or anything.  For now, I will just say that we have our reasons for having LGBT pride that go back to the Stonewall riots and are related to how we are often treated by greater society and how we sometimes perceive ourselves after being bullied.  Its not mandatory for anyone who finds it silly to attend.  I will add that 50% of LGBT pride attendees and celebrators are heterosexual cis people and they have a great time when they join us.  If we were elitists or supremacists we wouldn't welcome them with open arms and love.  Pride is not about celebrating how much better we are than straights, because we aren't.  its about reminding ourselves in the face of adversity that we're just as good as straight people and we have nothing to be ashamed of.  Straight people don't really need that reminder, but if they want it and they want to put something like that together, I say more power to them.  They got a permit for it in Boston after all.  I'm sure they can do so elsewhere as well.

I have fun with LGBT pride and I enjoy it very much, but I also remember why it exists in the first place.  I can't wait til the day arrives when its just a happy celebration of the triumphs of the past like MANY other holidays are and we no longer have to worry about many of the things we still have to worry about today.

Edit:  BTW if there was a Straight Pride in Seattle I might attend and whoop and cheer and say "Hurrah for straight people!"  My shirt might say on the back "Straight Ally" and on the front it would read something like this: 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/A/A/R/7AARV/Straight%20People_m.jpg)

Lmao, "Straight Ally." You'll piss some people off. Oh, and people are quite butthurt about the Boston thing. Chris Evans sure can't handle it as per this article: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-brad-pitt-milo-yiannopoulos-straight-pride-parade-chris-evans-bosto-20190607-avctsnt3fbgxpbxx3fcsplduna-story.html

"Meanwhile, ‘Avengers’ actor (and proud Bostonian) Chris Evans blasted the group for being “homophobic.”
"Wow! Cool initiative, fellas!! Just a thought, instead of ‘Straight Pride’ parade, how about this: The ‘desperately trying to bury our own gay thoughts by being homophobic because no one taught us how to access our emotions as children’ parade? Whatta ya think? Too on the nose??" Evans tweeted to his more than 12.2 million followers."

Gotta love celebrities. They try to use their brains and fail so miraculously at being able to invert an issue and fathom it. Or am I too long overlooking from that article that professional troll, Milo, is the marshal for the parade? Hilarious but just another wedge in the matter to further piss off opposing voices. The whole thing is just to point out the absurdity of pride parades based on one's birth. If we held white pride parades for all the shit white people put up with from the news, it would feel good, but it's just divisive. When it comes to pride stuff (racism in this example), though I don't agree with Morgan Freeman on much at all, this statement from him in an interview is a fave of mine:

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 08, 2019, 01:29:09 pm
"Meanwhile, ‘Avengers’ actor (and proud Bostonian) Chris Evans blasted the group for being “homophobic.”
"Wow! Cool initiative, fellas!! Just a thought, instead of ‘Straight Pride’ parade, how about this: The ‘desperately trying to bury our own gay thoughts by being homophobic because no one taught us how to access our emotions as children’ parade? Whatta ya think? Too on the nose??" Evans tweeted to his more than 12.2 million followers."

I have a lot more to say about the topic, in fact I wrote a lot more about it but I chose to save it into a word document on my laptop instead of posting it here.  Maybe I will eventually post it in a thread in the off topic section.  But for now we probably should get back to character speculation in this thread.  lol 

Regarding Chris Evens all I have to say is this: 
(https://media.giphy.com/media/dBHm5ruC2SXEinMGvo/giphy.gif)

Oooh. And maybe there will be a Bloodlines 2 character that looks like that!  THAT would be awesome.  :D  (There, back on topic lol)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 08, 2019, 01:39:46 pm
"Meanwhile, ‘Avengers’ actor (and proud Bostonian) Chris Evans blasted the group for being “homophobic.”
"Wow! Cool initiative, fellas!! Just a thought, instead of ‘Straight Pride’ parade, how about this: The ‘desperately trying to bury our own gay thoughts by being homophobic because no one taught us how to access our emotions as children’ parade? Whatta ya think? Too on the nose??" Evans tweeted to his more than 12.2 million followers."

I have a lot more to say about the topic, in fact I wrote a lot more about it but I chose to save it into a word document on my laptop instead of posting it here.  Maybe I will eventually post it in a thread in the off topic section.  But for now we probably should get back to character speculation in this thread.  lol 

Regarding Chris Evens all I have to say is this: 
(https://media.giphy.com/media/dBHm5ruC2SXEinMGvo/giphy.gif)

Oooh. And maybe there will be a Bloodlines 2 character that looks like that!  THAT would be awesome.  :D  (There, back on topic lol)

Lmao, nice segway from Chris Evan's self-hate heterophobia per the quote. :D

So on the characters returning stuff, I think they ought to be sure they give characters good reason for being in Seattle. Jeanette/Therese could be setting up a new Asylum franchise/overseeing its start, for example.

Except for Yukie because there's no legit reason she should still be here but she's a non-attack-on-sight hunter and so frickin' adorable s so I want her in the game anyway. =p
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 08, 2019, 01:45:47 pm
"Meanwhile, ‘Avengers’ actor (and proud Bostonian) Chris Evans blasted the group for being “homophobic.”
"Wow! Cool initiative, fellas!! Just a thought, instead of ‘Straight Pride’ parade, how about this: The ‘desperately trying to bury our own gay thoughts by being homophobic because no one taught us how to access our emotions as children’ parade? Whatta ya think? Too on the nose??" Evans tweeted to his more than 12.2 million followers."

I have a lot more to say about the topic, in fact I wrote a lot more about it but I chose to save it into a word document on my laptop instead of posting it here.  Maybe I will eventually post it in a thread in the off topic section.  But for now we probably should get back to character speculation in this thread.  lol 

Regarding Chris Evens all I have to say is this: 
(https://media.giphy.com/media/dBHm5ruC2SXEinMGvo/giphy.gif)

Oooh. And maybe there will be a Bloodlines 2 character that looks like that!  THAT would be awesome.  :D  (There, back on topic lol)

Lmao, nice segway from Chris Evan's self-hate heterophobia per the quote. :D

So on the characters returning stuff, I think they ought to be sure they give characters good reason for being in Seattle. Jeanette/Therese could be setting up a new Asylum franchise/overseeing its start, for example.

Except for Yukie because there's no legit reason she should still be here but she's a non-attack-on-sight hunter and so frickin' adorable s so I want her in the game anyway. =p

Maybe she will bring her hot gay brother this time too!  :D
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 08, 2019, 03:09:09 pm
Lmao, nice segway from Chris Evan's self-hate heterophobia per the quote. :D

Is he homosexual? If so, I didn't know. Also he probably fears some stupid people will take this march seriously and as we are speaking about the US he is probably right ;)!

One hopefully last comment about Grout's wife. What do people think the mansion looked before Grout's voices told him that he is in danger? The guy is obviously crazy, of course he would make such a shrine for his wife as he did for the other important items to him all around her! Why should he build up a decoy or similar when he doesn't even know that he has enemies until the end?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 08, 2019, 03:39:06 pm
Lmao, nice segway from Chris Evan's self-hate heterophobia per the quote. :D

Is he homosexual? If so, I didn't know. Also he probably fears some stupid people will take this march seriously and as we are speaking about the US he is probably right ;)!

One hopefully last comment about Grout's wife. What do people think the mansion looked before Grout's voices told him that he is in danger? The guy is obviously crazy, of course he would make such a shrine for his wife as he did for the other important items to him all around her! Why should he build up a decoy or similar when he doesn't even know that he has enemies until the end?

Chris Evans is straight.  His brother is gay, however.  I think he is very protective of him and the people doing the Straight Pride Parade in Boston actually did say on their Facebook page that they are doing it to mock LGBT pride.  I can see why some people might interpret that as homophobic.

As for Grout, I remember hearing on his recordings that he took great precautions to make sure she was safe, so I have always assumed that whatever situation she was in at the time we explored the Grout Manor was different from the regular situation pre-danger. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 08, 2019, 04:44:46 pm
As for Grout, I remember hearing on his recordings that he took great precautions to make sure she was safe, so I have always assumed that whatever situation she was in at the time we explored the Grout Manor was different from the regular situation pre-danger.

He only says "I have taken precautions to protect my beloved wife." and I guess this would mean the tube she is in. It's not really clear, but I would guess her illness is the same vampirism Grout got himself, only showing differently, so he can store her in topor. Clearly the whole room she is in was not build because of some danger, but like a museum beforehand...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 08, 2019, 05:19:47 pm
As for Grout, I remember hearing on his recordings that he took great precautions to make sure she was safe, so I have always assumed that whatever situation she was in at the time we explored the Grout Manor was different from the regular situation pre-danger.

He only says "I have taken precautions to protect my beloved wife." and I guess this would mean the tube she is in. It's not really clear, but I would guess her illness is the same vampirism Grout got himself, only showing differently, so he can store her in topor. Clearly the whole room she is in was not build because of some danger, but like a museum beforehand...

I think he took some very lousy precautions to keep her safe by turning her into his door lock and alarm.  But then again, he was Malkavian.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 11, 2019, 12:59:31 am
I think he took some very lousy precautions to keep her safe by turning her into his door lock and alarm.  But then again, he was Malkavian.

He probably never imagined the danger he really was in. A likely scenario given his isolation from the world.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 11, 2019, 02:19:18 am
I think he took some very lousy precautions to keep her safe by turning her into his door lock and alarm.  But then again, he was Malkavian.

He probably never imagined the danger he really was in. A likely scenario given his isolation from the world.

I got the idea from his recordings that he imagined the danger he was in pretty clearly. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 11, 2019, 02:26:04 am
I think he took some very lousy precautions to keep her safe by turning her into his door lock and alarm.  But then again, he was Malkavian.

He probably never imagined the danger he really was in. A likely scenario given his isolation from the world.

I got the idea from his recordings that he imagined the danger he was in pretty clearly.

Yeah, Malkavians are the clan most capable of knowing something horrible coming...he just wouldn't know exactly what or when, so much as that he was likely totally screwed or some such. Premonition shenanigans can be pretty upsetting. His recordings make him sound incredibly paranoid and afraid for his future.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 11, 2019, 04:37:13 am
I think he took some very lousy precautions to keep her safe by turning her into his door lock and alarm.  But then again, he was Malkavian.

He probably never imagined the danger he really was in. A likely scenario given his isolation from the world.

I got the idea from his recordings that he imagined the danger he was in pretty clearly.

Before the recordings I mean, and the voices.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 11, 2019, 04:59:05 am
I refuse to believe that he intended to make his wife his door lock and alarm.  lol
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 11, 2019, 09:33:49 am
I refuse to believe that he intended to make his wife his door lock and alarm.  lol

This room obviously was a kind of museum even before the voices told him about danger. I would guess his protection was to let his ghouls loose all over the mansion with weapons in their hands. Or do you imagine it was always like this?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 11, 2019, 09:54:37 am
I refuse to believe that he intended to make his wife his door lock and alarm.  lol

This room obviously was a kind of museum even before the voices told him about danger. I would guess his protection was to let his ghouls loose all over the mansion with weapons in their hands. Or do you imagine it was always like this?

I am sure they were there to protect *him* but I don't interpret them as precautions to protect his wife. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 10:35:44 am
I knew it that they couldn´t resist to put one Bloodlines 1 character in the Trailer.
Well i am not 100% sure but i check several times the original model and one from the Trailer.

Its Nines Rodriguez!!!
Please pause at 0:13-:0:15


Edit: Sorry i couldn´t find a better pic for Nines which show him in full detail.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/24/8c/c6/248cc66eb206c37c95b21e7e7d0b0bd2.png)

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: VampireBill on June 11, 2019, 03:48:24 pm
I wouldn't have guessed by the face, but yeah, that outfit is way too exact not to be. Well, unless it's just an Easter egg/trolling and it's really just some rando, because, kinda odd that he'd be wearing the exact same outfit all this time later, haha.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 04:28:29 pm
I wouldn't have guessed by the face, but yeah, that outfit is way too exact not to be.
There are some changes because its a complete new Engine and they also change little details he has´t bare arms like in Original.

Quote
Well, unless it's just an Easter egg/trolling and it's really just some rando, because, kinda odd that he'd be wearing the exact same outfit all this time later, haha.
In DAI Morrigan still wears her same outfit which she also wore 10 years before in DAO. ;)

I think the devs want to make it easy for people to recognise iconic returning characters.
Could you identify Nines only with his face in a new Engine? To be honest i don´t think that i can.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 11, 2019, 04:35:47 pm
It's Nines Rodriguez!!!

I disagree. That is a normal guy wearing everyday clothes, why should this be Nines?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 05:48:53 pm
I disagree. That is a normal guy wearing everyday clothes, why should this be Nines?
Ok i still think its Nines. Similar Outfit a longer blue jacket and his watches? on each arm.

Also it fits with some of previews like GameStar where they also mentioned that they saw someone
who looks like Nines in their presented Demo.

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 11, 2019, 05:50:43 pm
Well, it would be fun if it were Nines.  :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 06:01:29 pm
Well, it would be fun if it were Nines.  :)
Nines wouldn´t be my personal pick for a returning character but if Brian Mitsoda thinks that Bloodlines 2 could use more of Nines why not?
Its his story.

If Nines is really back then i doubt that we will also see Skelter and/or Damsel.  I think that would be too much.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: z on June 11, 2019, 06:19:47 pm
Well, it would be fun if it were Nines.  :)
Nines wouldn´t be my personal pick for a returning character but if Brian Mitsoda thinks that Bloodlines 2 could use more of Nines why not?
Its his story.

If Nines is really back then i doubt that we will also see Skelter and/or Damsel.  I think that would be too much.
Maybe Nines left LA for Seattle for some unknown reasons...
Which means... Maybe Damsel should be named TENTH from now on x)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 06:43:58 pm
Which means... Maybe Damsel should be named TENTH from now on x)
Or Skelter ;)

But we still have something from Damsel in the game (ok ok the Deluxe Edition)
Her "glorious" beret.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 11, 2019, 07:44:59 pm
Similar Outfit a longer blue jacket and his watches?

How can you even see that his jacket is blue and that these are watches? Zoomed screenshot please!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 11, 2019, 08:21:11 pm
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 11, 2019, 08:53:17 pm
I agree wis Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's NInes.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV . But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a caln, should he?

Wannabe VV? I thought she was a Tremere? And she doesn't dress like a whore, either and seems fairly straightforward instead of pretending to be into you.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 09:05:22 pm
How can you even see that his jacket is blue and that these are watches? Zoomed screenshot please!
Yeah i tried this but my screenshots with him looks like fuzzy crap. I am really not an expert in this.
Maybe someone could help me and make better pics? The moment is at 0:13-0:15.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 11, 2019, 09:19:26 pm
I agree wis Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's NInes.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV . But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a caln, should he?

Wannabe VV? I thought she was a Tremere? And she doesn't dress like a whore, either and seems fairly straightforward instead of pretending to be into you.


Yeah, after seeing the trailer again, I have to agree, she doesn't seem to be like VV.

Outstar did an anlysis of the gameplay trailer and did show the message, you receive in one scene. It begins with 'Hey boss...'. Could it really be, that our favorite Nosferatu Primogen makes a return (though maybe only in email)?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 09:28:34 pm
Outstar did an anlysis of the gameplay trailer and did show the message, you receive in one scene. It begins with 'Hey boss...'. Could it really be, that our favorite Nosferatu Primogen makes a return (though maybe only in email)?
No new character named Penny. She is presumably the owner of Penny´s cafe which mentioned in serveral previews as a location in Bloodlines 2.

(https://i.imgur.com/XMG79kO.png)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on June 11, 2019, 09:30:23 pm
I see just some wobbly dude
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 09:48:22 pm
I see just some wobbly dude
Thanks this looks a lot better then my failed ones. :)

I still a character who reminds me of Nines. Blue Jacket? Check! His two watches or whatever this? Check!
Same Hair and Skincolor? Check on Hair but Skin it looks a bit different maybe this could be explain with the new Unreal 4 Engine.

And last but not least some journalists who saw the 30-min demo thought that someone similar looking to Nines was in the game / demo.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Happydeathclaw on June 11, 2019, 10:02:24 pm
I see just some wobbly dude
Thanks this looks a lot better then my failed ones. :)

I still a character who reminds me of Nines. Blue Jacket? Check! His two watches or whatever this? Check!
Same Hair and Skincolor? Check on Hair but Skin it looks a bit different maybe this could be explain with the new Unreal 4 Engine.

And last but not least some journalists who saw the 30-min demo thought that someone similar looking to Nines was in the game / demo.

He also has a head, two ears, two hands, two legs just like Nines. It doesn't tell much, really...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 11, 2019, 11:12:04 pm
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 03:30:41 am
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Hahaha, a Toreador with Nosferatu looks. That is MESSED up. XD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 03:37:15 am
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Hahaha, a Toreador with Nosferatu looks. That is MESSED up. XD

I think it would make a fun character, especially if he was delusional about his own looks and thought himself utterly beautiful.  lol
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 04:32:56 am
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Hahaha, a Toreador with Nosferatu looks. That is MESSED up. XD

I think it would make a fun character, especially if he was delusional about his own looks and thought himself utterly beautiful.  lol

To be fair, if he found himself utterly beautiful, then he would have to find anyone even quasi-attractive to be positively hideous to the point of bringing him physical disgust and avoidance.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 05:37:47 am
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Hahaha, a Toreador with Nosferatu looks. That is MESSED up. XD

I think it would make a fun character, especially if he was delusional about his own looks and thought himself utterly beautiful.  lol

To be fair, if he found himself utterly beautiful, then he would have to find anyone even quasi-attractive to be positively hideous to the point of bringing him physical disgust and avoidance.

Would he?  I have found that many people delusional about their own looks simply imagine they look a way that they really don't. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 12, 2019, 06:11:34 am
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Outstar explained in her video, that a Thinblood can have the curse of their clan, so I guess, Slug is just extremely unlucky, having developed such extreme features.

A Tzimisce can't change a Nosferatu permanently, the curse prevents that too.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 06:47:03 am
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Outstar explained in her video, that a Thinblood can have the curse of their clan, so I guess, Slug is just extremely unlucky, having developed such extreme features.

A Tzimisce can't change a Nosferatu permanently, the curse prevents that too.

But that wouldn't apply to Slug if he became a Toreador through sanctioned diablerie.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: argikt on June 12, 2019, 06:57:20 am
The picture is at least... unclear, my bet is he isn't nines.

If I would make some character returning, I will do some of the roaming chars... like Pisha, Beckett, etc...
Will have more sense...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 12:35:48 pm
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Hahaha, a Toreador with Nosferatu looks. That is MESSED up. XD

I think it would make a fun character, especially if he was delusional about his own looks and thought himself utterly beautiful.  lol

To be fair, if he found himself utterly beautiful, then he would have to find anyone even quasi-attractive to be positively hideous to the point of bringing him physical disgust and avoidance.

Would he?  I have found that many people delusional about their own looks simply imagine they look a way that they really don't.

Oh, you mean if he imagined he looked good as opposed to genuinely liking the way he looked? Then yeah, but I mean like if he genuinely found how he looked attractive, then the opposite would be horribly unattractive to him.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 03:19:39 pm
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Hahaha, a Toreador with Nosferatu looks. That is MESSED up. XD

I think it would make a fun character, especially if he was delusional about his own looks and thought himself utterly beautiful.  lol

To be fair, if he found himself utterly beautiful, then he would have to find anyone even quasi-attractive to be positively hideous to the point of bringing him physical disgust and avoidance.

Would he?  I have found that many people delusional about their own looks simply imagine they look a way that they really don't.

Oh, you mean if he imagined he looked good as opposed to genuinely liking the way he looked? Then yeah, but I mean like if he genuinely found how he looked attractive, then the opposite would be horribly unattractive to him.

True, that's how most people tend to be. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 12, 2019, 05:48:56 pm
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Outstar explained in her video, that a Thinblood can have the curse of their clan, so I guess, Slug is just extremely unlucky, having developed such extreme features.

A Tzimisce can't change a Nosferatu permanently, the curse prevents that too.

But that wouldn't apply to Slug if he became a Toreador through sanctioned diablerie.

I don't know - can you really change your clan through diablerie?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 07:33:54 pm
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Outstar explained in her video, that a Thinblood can have the curse of their clan, so I guess, Slug is just extremely unlucky, having developed such extreme features.

A Tzimisce can't change a Nosferatu permanently, the curse prevents that too.

But that wouldn't apply to Slug if he became a Toreador through sanctioned diablerie.

I don't know - can you really change your clan through diablerie?

Not if you are already a full blooded vampire.  Diablerie can lower your generation but it won't change your clan.  Thinbloods on the other hand can join a clan and become full blooded vampires this way.  This may be how we will do it in Bloodlines 2.  Remember that we start out as thinbloods and later on we are able to choose which clan we want to join and we will become a full blooded vampire.  The only method in the World of Darkness that I am aware of that will let a thinblood choose a clan and become fullblooded is diablerie so chances are pretty good that this is how it will happen in the game. 

So if Slug is a Thinblood, as he is described in the trailer, then it would still be theoretically possible for him to become a Toreador vampire if he were to diablerize a fullblooded Toreador.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 12, 2019, 08:51:22 pm
I agree with Wesp, that doesn't look like Nines. As much as I would like to see him again (though not as much as Gary, Mitnick or Damsel from the L.A. vampires), I don't think, it's Nines.

But, if Wilhelm is right, well, that would be a nice surprise.

The Nosferatu looked good. Is the other, Slug, a Nosferatu too? He looked a bit demonic - the one, you have to catch for the wannabe VV. But she said, he is a Thinblood, so he shouldn't show that much features from a clan, should he?

Maybe the Nosferatu curse is just so extreme it even shows on their Thinbloods?  It makes me wonder though, what would happen if Slug was given the chance to diablerize a vampire from any clan he wanted and he picked Toreador.  I know it wouldn't make him magically turn pretty, but what would a Toreador with Nosferatu features be like?  Maybe if there was one local not so hostile but very talented Tzimisce around, willing to perform vampiric plastic surgery that could change. lol

Outstar explained in her video, that a Thinblood can have the curse of their clan, so I guess, Slug is just extremely unlucky, having developed such extreme features.

A Tzimisce can't change a Nosferatu permanently, the curse prevents that too.

But that wouldn't apply to Slug if he became a Toreador through sanctioned diablerie.

I don't know - can you really change your clan through diablerie?

Not if you are already a full blooded vampire.  Diablerie can lower your generation but it won't change your clan.  Thinbloods on the other hand can join a clan and become full blooded vampires this way.  This may be how we will do it in Bloodlines 2.  Remember that we start out as thinbloods and later on we are able to choose which clan we want to join and we will become a full blooded vampire.  The only method in the World of Darkness that I am aware of that will let a thinblood choose a clan and become fullblooded is diablerie so chances are pretty good that this is how it will happen in the game. 

So if Slug is a Thinblood, as he is described in the trailer, then it would still be theoretically possible for him to become a Toreador vampire if he were to diablerize a fullblooded Toreador.

OK, I thought, this only works for the clan, you were embraced in. For example, if you are embraced by a Tremere and become a Thin blood, you have to diablerize another Tremere to become a full vampire. But I'm not that familiar with Thinbloods. Hopefully poor Slug survives to make that choice :)

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 12, 2019, 09:03:49 pm
Guys Guys can you please for the sake of my health (and others) just quote the part of the last post you answer to?

This isn´t rocket science to use and maybe edit [ quote ] and [ / quote ]
So don´t be that lazy. ;)

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 10:58:24 pm
OK, I thought, this only works for the clan, you were embraced in. For example, if you are embraced by a Tremere and become a Thin blood, you have to diablerize another Tremere to become a full vampire. But I'm not that familiar with Thinbloods. Hopefully poor Slug survives to make that choice :)

The vast majority of Thinbloods are also Caitiff, meaning that they do not know what clan they descend from and they have no clan specific traits, Slug's Nosferatu like appearance not withstanding.  They are clanless. Its because their vitae is so diluted by the 14th, 15th (and possibly even 16th) generations that they do not have a clan, despite who it was that sired them.  Half of all 14th Generation vampires are thinbloods and ALL 15th generation vampires are thinbloods.  It was originally believed that the 15th generation was the final generation but Becket has found evidence of 15th gen thinbloods successfully embracing, though I imagine that it is incredibly rare and powerfully difficult.  As an aside, I assume that Lily was 14th gen and E is 15th gen.   

I should also mention that though Thinbloods are almost all Caitiff, not all Caitiff are thinbloods. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 11:08:26 pm
Also, the thinblood who looks like a Nossie is named "Slugg," not "Slug," folks. That extra "g" probably means a whole lot to the lil guy!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 13, 2019, 12:05:24 am
Also, the thinblood who looks like a Nossie is named "Slugg," not "Slug," folks. That extra "g" probably means a whole lot to the lil guy!

Something tells me that sending him to the Nosferatu might actually be a bad thing... I don't know.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 13, 2019, 04:16:09 am
Also, the thinblood who looks like a Nossie is named "Slugg," not "Slug," folks. That extra "g" probably means a whole lot to the lil guy!

Something tells me that sending him to the Nosferatu might actually be a bad thing... I don't know.

Yeah, I was curious to see how that turns out, too...and does Tremere gal find out or get butt-hurt about it? Stuff like that makes me excited for the main game because it looks like there are a decent number of variables, at least on certain quests. Heck, did you see that there were like seven different dialog options with Slugg for a single reply to him at one point? I wanna say the most Bloodlines 1 ever had was four. If we can get that level of depth and satisfying outcomes from them, then we have a lot to look forward to.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 13, 2019, 08:13:24 am
Heck, did you see that there were like seven different dialog options with Slugg for a single reply to him at one point? I wanna say the most Bloodlines 1 ever had was four.

Indeed, Bloodlines has a hard-coded limitation to only show 4 of 10 possible answers which sometimes made it hard to get the order right, so you see everything that is important. It seems they improved on that for Bloodlines 2 :)!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 13, 2019, 04:25:44 pm
Heck, did you see that there were like seven different dialog options with Slugg for a single reply to him at one point? I wanna say the most Bloodlines 1 ever had was four.

Indeed, Bloodlines has a hard-coded limitation to only show 4 of 10 possible answers which sometimes made it hard to get the order right, so you see everything that is important. It seems they improved on that for Bloodlines 2 :)!

Yes, very awesome!  I am very thrilled about that. I am getting more and more excited for this game all the time. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 13, 2019, 07:14:57 pm
Heck, did you see that there were like seven different dialog options with Slugg for a single reply to him at one point? I wanna say the most Bloodlines 1 ever had was four.

Indeed, Bloodlines has a hard-coded limitation to only show 4 of 10 possible answers which sometimes made it hard to get the order right, so you see everything that is important. It seems they improved on that for Bloodlines 2 :)!

Yes, very awesome!  I am very thrilled about that. I am getting more and more excited for this game all the time.

My only 3 big worries right now are as follows:

1) Cheaping out by just using the unused Bloodlines 1 tracks which we've heard a ton and played Bloodlines 1 with. I want all new Bloodlines music with only the theme as a remix (which I love).

2) Releasing in March 2020. Have you seen just how many games are currently scheduled to come out in March 2020?! And I'm talkin' high profile stuff, too. And if anyone is NOT using the Epic Game Store, then March 2020 is also when Borderlands 3 "launches" as it'll be available on Steam then, too!

3) Not taking long enough to iron out bugs and put in content to the eternal detriment of the game.

I think that #2 should be taken into consideration with #3 by Paradox. They should say "Yes, it will cost us more to fund another 1-3 months of development, but we'll also lose a bunch of money if we launch in March 2020 amidst the ocean of games and this little gem gets overlooked by tons of gamers buying even higher-profile games.

Check out yesterday's Penny Arcade comic for reference to gaming and March 2020... https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2019/06/12/density-2
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 14, 2019, 01:13:34 am
Heck, did you see that there were like seven different dialog options with Slugg for a single reply to him at one point? I wanna say the most Bloodlines 1 ever had was four.

Indeed, Bloodlines has a hard-coded limitation to only show 4 of 10 possible answers which sometimes made it hard to get the order right, so you see everything that is important. It seems they improved on that for Bloodlines 2 :)!

Yes, very awesome!  I am very thrilled about that. I am getting more and more excited for this game all the time.

My only 3 big worries right now are as follows:

1) Cheaping out by just using the unused Bloodlines 1 tracks which we've heard a ton and played Bloodlines 1 with. I want all new Bloodlines music with only the theme as a remix (which I love).

2) Releasing in March 2020. Have you seen just how many games are currently scheduled to come out in March 2020?! And I'm talkin' high profile stuff, too. And if anyone is NOT using the Epic Game Store, then March 2020 is also when Borderlands 3 "launches" as it'll be available on Steam then, too!

3) Not taking long enough to iron out bugs and put in content to the eternal detriment of the game.

I think that #2 should be taken into consideration with #3 by Paradox. They should say "Yes, it will cost us more to fund another 1-3 months of development, but we'll also lose a bunch of money if we launch in March 2020 amidst the ocean of games and this little gem gets overlooked by tons of gamers buying even higher-profile games.

Check out yesterday's Penny Arcade comic for reference to gaming and March 2020... https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2019/06/12/density-2

We still have nearly a year to wait for the game's release, a lot can happen in that time that can see the resolution of most of your concerns.  They may also choose in that time to push the release date back as well. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on June 14, 2019, 05:16:04 am
Kind of sounds like Bloodlines being released (intentionally, I might add) at the same time as a game I can't remember but was heavily promoted with the COMPLETED half-life engine.  (I hope I got that right).  The bottom line was that it hurt initial sales immensely. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 14, 2019, 05:46:10 am
Kind of sounds like Bloodlines being released (intentionally, I might add) at the same time as a game I can't remember but was heavily promoted with the COMPLETED half-life engine.  (I hope I got that right).  The bottom line was that it hurt initial sales immensely.

Lol, it sure did use the Source Engine alright...because it was Half-Life 2. They freaking launched against Half-Life 2. Ouch. Now Bloodlines 2 is poised to launch among a myriad of other games people are excited to get their hands on.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 14, 2019, 08:15:16 am
Now Bloodlines 2 is poised to launch among a myriad of other games people are excited to get their hands on.

And one of these is Cyberspace 2077 which attacts the exact same kind of players. So I hope they don't do it!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: argikt on June 14, 2019, 09:39:20 am
Yes... cyberpunk 2077 looks promising...
But I had and eye on this game for some years, and his release has been delayed several times... I won't be surprised if will happen again...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 14, 2019, 09:41:08 am
Now Bloodlines 2 is poised to launch among a myriad of other games people are excited to get their hands on.

And one of these is Cyberspace 2077 which attacts the exact same kind of players. So I hope they don't do it!

Yeah they need to wait.  They need to take a lesson from the release of the original game.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on June 15, 2019, 12:15:44 am
Well, at least you all knew what I was talking about.  I used to remember what memory is.  :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 15, 2019, 10:21:00 am
Well, at least you all knew what I was talking about.  I used to remember what memory is.  :)

Of course.  :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 15, 2019, 10:30:50 am
Not that I'm entirely happy if Bloodlines 2 is again released together with anotehr hyped franchise, but I'm not that worried. Today, Bloodlines isn't the 'newcomer' anymore. Bloodlines 1 has a solid fanbase, that is still growing and active. So i just hope, many people will be as excited as I am for that game, Cyberpunk or no Cyberpunk.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 15, 2019, 10:38:24 am
Not that I'm entirely happy if Bloodlines 2 is again released together with anotehr hyped franchise, but I'm not that worried. Today, Bloodlines isn't the 'newcomer' anymore. Bloodlines 1 has a solid fanbase, that is still growing and active. So i just hope, many people will be as excited as I am for that game, Cyberpunk or no Cyberpunk.

Trust and believe that I am.   

Now that we have all had our worries aired, maybe its time to stop putting that bad ju-ju out into the world and go back to just being excited for the game.   
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 15, 2019, 12:56:28 pm
Not that I'm entirely happy if Bloodlines 2 is again released together with anotehr hyped franchise, but I'm not that worried. Today, Bloodlines isn't the 'newcomer' anymore. Bloodlines 1 has a solid fanbase, that is still growing and active. So i just hope, many people will be as excited as I am for that game, Cyberpunk or no Cyberpunk.

Trust and believe that I am.   

Now that we have all had our worries aired, maybe its time to stop putting that bad ju-ju out into the world and go back to just being excited for the game.   

Count me in, in being excited :)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 15, 2019, 02:52:05 pm
Holy...

... get her back Brian, she deserves it !
I can confirm that Margaret Tang along with her partner Rik Schaffer (are they married or just business partners?)  are back.
https://www.wombmusic.net/

Rik Schaffer isn´t any new for most people but its great that Margaret Tang returns as s voice director and casting director (maybe also as dialogue editor)
Margaret Tang is back and will very likely voice some of the Bloodlines 2 characters. Maybe even 1 or 2 which had been voiced in Bloodlines 2.
I´d love to see Imalia or Lily again.  But Kiki should stay far away from Bloodlines 2 as possible.
By the way is Margaret Tang Rik Schaffer´s wife or are they just friends / business partners?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 15, 2019, 06:27:11 pm
Not that I'm entirely happy if Bloodlines 2 is again released together with anotehr hyped franchise, but I'm not that worried. Today, Bloodlines isn't the 'newcomer' anymore. Bloodlines 1 has a solid fanbase, that is still growing and active. So i just hope, many people will be as excited as I am for that game, Cyberpunk or no Cyberpunk.

Trust and believe that I am.   

Now that we have all had our worries aired, maybe its time to stop putting that bad ju-ju out into the world and go back to just being excited for the game.   

Count me in, in being excited :)

I'm way more excited for Bloodlines 2 than Cyberpunk 2077. Vampires are way more my jam than sci-fi outlaw stuff. I'll certainly be getting the latter, of course, but I don't even think about it except when I see something about it, whereas VtM is an inch away in my thoughts at any given moment.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 15, 2019, 11:17:04 pm
Not that I'm entirely happy if Bloodlines 2 is again released together with anotehr hyped franchise, but I'm not that worried. Today, Bloodlines isn't the 'newcomer' anymore. Bloodlines 1 has a solid fanbase, that is still growing and active. So i just hope, many people will be as excited as I am for that game, Cyberpunk or no Cyberpunk.

Trust and believe that I am.   

Now that we have all had our worries aired, maybe its time to stop putting that bad ju-ju out into the world and go back to just being excited for the game.   

Count me in, in being excited :)

I'm way more excited for Bloodlines 2 than Cyberpunk 2077. Vampires are way more my jam than sci-fi outlaw stuff. I'll certainly be getting the latter, of course, but I don't even think about it except when I see something about it, whereas VtM is an inch away in my thoughts at any given moment.

I am more excited for Bloodlines 2 as well, but I am pretty damned excited for Cyberpunk 2077 as well.  But if I was only allowed to pick 1 I would go with Bloodlines 2.  But since I am not only allowed to pick 1, I will be excited for both.  lol  As well as the eventual Dragon Age 4 (yes I know you hate BioWare lol),  Elder Scrolls VI, Baldur's Gate III and to a lesser degree, The Outer Worlds.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 16, 2019, 12:20:42 am
Not that I'm entirely happy if Bloodlines 2 is again released together with anotehr hyped franchise, but I'm not that worried. Today, Bloodlines isn't the 'newcomer' anymore. Bloodlines 1 has a solid fanbase, that is still growing and active. So i just hope, many people will be as excited as I am for that game, Cyberpunk or no Cyberpunk.

Trust and believe that I am.   

Now that we have all had our worries aired, maybe its time to stop putting that bad ju-ju out into the world and go back to just being excited for the game.   

Count me in, in being excited :)

I'm way more excited for Bloodlines 2 than Cyberpunk 2077. Vampires are way more my jam than sci-fi outlaw stuff. I'll certainly be getting the latter, of course, but I don't even think about it except when I see something about it, whereas VtM is an inch away in my thoughts at any given moment.

I am more excited for Bloodlines 2 as well, but I am pretty damned excited for Cyberpunk 2077 as well.  But if I was only allowed to pick 1 I would go with Bloodlines 2.  But since I am not only allowed to pick 1, I will be excited for both.  lol  As well as the eventual Dragon Age 4 (yes I know you hate BioWare lol),  Elder Scrolls VI, Baldur's Gate III and to a lesser degree, The Outer Worlds.

For me, I'm curious about Baldur's Gate III since they say there's not a ton of connection to the prior games (which I'm not going to play through). However, I can't get into Divinity Original Sin, so I'm hesitant since they made that game and it's definitely the same kinda thing...

Deathloop from the Bethesda stuff kinda intrigued me...at least the premise. They haven't said what genre/gameplay it's going to have, though, but I love the premise alone.

And for Cyberpunk 2077, I'll be interested if we can make a character specced out like that lady in the E3 trailer who kinda "remote hacked" the protagonist's augmentations so that they wouldn't work and it stunned him. That was pretty darn cool.

And can I play a female and peg Keanu Reeves? These are the burning questions.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 16, 2019, 01:44:49 am
Not that I'm entirely happy if Bloodlines 2 is again released together with anotehr hyped franchise, but I'm not that worried. Today, Bloodlines isn't the 'newcomer' anymore. Bloodlines 1 has a solid fanbase, that is still growing and active. So i just hope, many people will be as excited as I am for that game, Cyberpunk or no Cyberpunk.

Trust and believe that I am.   

Now that we have all had our worries aired, maybe its time to stop putting that bad ju-ju out into the world and go back to just being excited for the game.   

Count me in, in being excited :)

I'm way more excited for Bloodlines 2 than Cyberpunk 2077. Vampires are way more my jam than sci-fi outlaw stuff. I'll certainly be getting the latter, of course, but I don't even think about it except when I see something about it, whereas VtM is an inch away in my thoughts at any given moment.

I am more excited for Bloodlines 2 as well, but I am pretty damned excited for Cyberpunk 2077 as well.  But if I was only allowed to pick 1 I would go with Bloodlines 2.  But since I am not only allowed to pick 1, I will be excited for both.  lol  As well as the eventual Dragon Age 4 (yes I know you hate BioWare lol),  Elder Scrolls VI, Baldur's Gate III and to a lesser degree, The Outer Worlds.

For me, I'm curious about Baldur's Gate III since they say there's not a ton of connection to the prior games (which I'm not going to play through). However, I can't get into Divinity Original Sin, so I'm hesitant since they made that game and it's definitely the same kinda thing...

Deathloop from the Bethesda stuff kinda intrigued me...at least the premise. They haven't said what genre/gameplay it's going to have, though, but I love the premise alone.

And for Cyberpunk 2077, I'll be interested if we can make a character specced out like that lady in the E3 trailer who kinda "remote hacked" the protagonist's augmentations so that they wouldn't work and it stunned him. That was pretty darn cool.

And can I play a female and peg Keanu Reeves? These are the burning questions.

I want to know if I can play a male and peg Keanu Reeves.  Something will be burning, but in a good way.

As for Baldur's Gate III, it would be pretty wild if they made it directly connected to the previous two games since the protagonist can have become a god.  lol  What I DON'T want is for them to treat the novelization as canon to their story.  THAT will piss me off.  The end of that horrible book has the guy who represents "Charname" (as everyone calls the protagonist from the first and second games due to the placeholder name used in the games' code), turning into a vicious monster that slaughters countless people until he is finally destroyed himself.  Rubbish fate for the Gorion's Ward. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on June 16, 2019, 02:05:09 am
Dark Zephyr said:  "For me, I'm curious about Baldur's Gate III since they say there's not a ton of connection to the prior games (which I'm not going to play through). However, I can't get into Divinity Original Sin, so I'm hesitant since they made that game and it's definitely the same kinda thing..."

I rather liked Divinity, Original Sin  --  just bought DOR2 in fact.  They did have some IMO loser games, though like "Dragon Commander" and the second Divine Divinity game was disappointing to me in many ways. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 16, 2019, 02:18:59 am
Dark Zephyr said:  "For me, I'm curious about Baldur's Gate III since they say there's not a ton of connection to the prior games (which I'm not going to play through). However, I can't get into Divinity Original Sin, so I'm hesitant since they made that game and it's definitely the same kinda thing..."

I rather liked Divinity, Original Sin  --  just bought DOR2 in fact.  They did have some IMO loser games, though like "Dragon Commander" and the second Divine Divinity game was disappointing to me in many ways.

DarkProphet actually said that, however, I can see how one might get confused between two sophisticated, well spoken kindred chaps.

That being said, I didn't much like the Divinity games either.  I am just NOT a fan of turn-based combat.  Fortunately that is not what the Baldur's Gate games are about.  I hope that they don't make part III turn-based. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 16, 2019, 02:21:03 pm
I'm way more excited for Bloodlines 2 than Cyberpunk 2077. Vampires are way more my jam than sci-fi outlaw stuff. I'll certainly be getting the latter, of course, but I don't even think about it except when I see something about it, whereas VtM is an inch away in my thoughts at any given moment.

I might be committing sacrilege here but... Cyberpunk 2077 is going to be simply INSANE...

I'm sorry guys, The Witcher 3 broke me.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 16, 2019, 08:23:22 pm
I'm way more excited for Bloodlines 2 than Cyberpunk 2077. Vampires are way more my jam than sci-fi outlaw stuff. I'll certainly be getting the latter, of course, but I don't even think about it except when I see something about it, whereas VtM is an inch away in my thoughts at any given moment.

I might be committing sacrilege here but... Cyberpunk 2077 is going to be simply INSANE...

I'm sorry guys, The Witcher 3 broke me.

I would love to play the WItcher 3, but The WItcher 1 was so clunky combat wise, that I didn't get far into it. Do the combat system gets better in 2 and 3?

As to back on topic, I really would like to hear Pishas voice actress again. I just meet her with my Malk again and I just love that voice
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 16, 2019, 08:55:38 pm
As to back on topic, I really would like to hear Pishas voice actress again. I just meet her with my Malk again and I just love that voice
Mary Elizabeth McGlynn is unlike other Bloodlines 1 actors still in the business. Her latest role was as Cetrion in Mortal Kombat 11.


https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569479/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t25
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 16, 2019, 09:32:42 pm
I'm way more excited for Bloodlines 2 than Cyberpunk 2077. Vampires are way more my jam than sci-fi outlaw stuff. I'll certainly be getting the latter, of course, but I don't even think about it except when I see something about it, whereas VtM is an inch away in my thoughts at any given moment.

I might be committing sacrilege here but... Cyberpunk 2077 is going to be simply INSANE...

I'm sorry guys, The Witcher 3 broke me.

I would love to play the WItcher 3, but The WItcher 1 was so clunky combat wise, that I didn't get far into it. Do the combat system gets better in 2 and 3?

Its much improved in the sequels. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 16, 2019, 10:26:57 pm
As to back on topic, I really would like to hear Pishas voice actress again. I just meet her with my Malk again and I just love that voice
Mary Elizabeth McGlynn is unlike other Bloodlines 1 actors still in the business. Her latest role was as Cetrion in Mortal Kombat 11.


https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0569479/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t25

Mortal Kombat is a game, I would never ever touch, I hate fighting games, so sadly, I will have to pass on her voice acting there. But good to know, she is still active, maybe she could voice a character in Bloodlines 2. I doesn't have to be Pisha, I'm not very attached to that character (the only good about Pisha is, that she is giving me the Odious Chalice, a really useful item)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 16, 2019, 11:02:13 pm
But good to know, she is still active, maybe she could voice a character in Bloodlines 2. I doesn't have to be Pisha, I'm not very attached to that character (the only good about Pisha is, that she is giving me the Odious Chalice, a really useful item)
It would be a little of waste of her (talent) to not bring her back as Pisha. Of course they can do that but it would a small disappointment.
This would be also weird if they decide to bring for example Phil LaMarr back but not for the obvious role as Skelter but as Dr. Malcolm St. Martin.

And i know Andy Milder can´t reprise his role as LaCroix because in almost all endings he gets killed. So it´s ok that they cast him for the Nosferatu Samuel.

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 17, 2019, 01:29:00 am
Dark Zephyr said:  "For me, I'm curious about Baldur's Gate III since they say there's not a ton of connection to the prior games (which I'm not going to play through). However, I can't get into Divinity Original Sin, so I'm hesitant since they made that game and it's definitely the same kinda thing..."

I rather liked Divinity, Original Sin  --  just bought DOR2 in fact.  They did have some IMO loser games, though like "Dragon Commander" and the second Divine Divinity game was disappointing to me in many ways.

DarkProphet actually said that, however, I can see how one might get confused between two sophisticated, well spoken kindred chaps.

That being said, I didn't much like the Divinity games either.  I am just NOT a fan of turn-based combat.  Fortunately that is not what the Baldur's Gate games are about.  I hope that they don't make part III turn-based.

I figure it will be real-time but with rounds/turns that don't pause the game, like in KotOR and NWN, and you can pause if you want to, so as to select the next attack/special ability/spell you want to use. That's the way almost all D&D vidya games are done.

I kinda prefer playing as neat stuff, though, so I dunno if I'll be into Baldur's Gate since most stuff you can play as in D&D bores me. I'd rather play as a vampire, Illithid, Succbus, etc. than a human, elf, dwarf, halfling, etc.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 17, 2019, 01:38:24 am
Dark Zephyr said:  "For me, I'm curious about Baldur's Gate III since they say there's not a ton of connection to the prior games (which I'm not going to play through). However, I can't get into Divinity Original Sin, so I'm hesitant since they made that game and it's definitely the same kinda thing..."

I rather liked Divinity, Original Sin  --  just bought DOR2 in fact.  They did have some IMO loser games, though like "Dragon Commander" and the second Divine Divinity game was disappointing to me in many ways.

DarkProphet actually said that, however, I can see how one might get confused between two sophisticated, well spoken kindred chaps.

That being said, I didn't much like the Divinity games either.  I am just NOT a fan of turn-based combat.  Fortunately that is not what the Baldur's Gate games are about.  I hope that they don't make part III turn-based.

I figure it will be real-time but with rounds/turns that don't pause the game, like in KotOR and NWN, and you can pause if you want to, so as to select the next attack/special ability/spell you want to use. That's the way almost all D&D vidya games are done.

I kinda prefer playing as neat stuff, though, so I dunno if I'll be into Baldur's Gate since most stuff you can play as in D&D bores me. I'd rather play as a vampire, Illithid, Succbus, etc. than a human, elf, dwarf, halfling, etc.

I like being able to pause to make decisions when I feel like it, so that works for me.  I prefer that to turn based. 

As for playable races, how about a fiendish plane touched?  Tieflings are part mortal, part demon or devil.  Oh never mind.  I just read (before I finished typing this) that as of 4th and 5th edition, Tieflings are no longer part fiend, they're descended from mortals who made deals with devils to become more powerful.  LAAAAME. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 17, 2019, 03:21:08 am
As for playable races, how about a fiendish plane touched?  Tieflings are part mortal, part demon or devil.  Oh never mind.  I just read (before I finished typing this) that as of 4th and 5th edition, Tieflings are no longer part fiend, they're descended from mortals who made deals with devils to become more powerful.  LAAAAME.

Eww, that's terrible! If I can play as a vampire or a succubus/incubus and have my party members be nervous AF around me, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 17, 2019, 10:30:29 am
As for playable races, how about a fiendish plane touched?  Tieflings are part mortal, part demon or devil.  Oh never mind.  I just read (before I finished typing this) that as of 4th and 5th edition, Tieflings are no longer part fiend, they're descended from mortals who made deals with devils to become more powerful.  LAAAAME.

Eww, that's terrible! If I can play as a vampire or a succubus/incubus and have my party members be nervous AF around me, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Well, they look like this, and I really do hope they'll be available races.  Neverwinter Nights 2 allowed you to choose a planetouched character.

(https://ist3-1.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/D/7/J/7D7Jz/DeanSpencer-tieflingwizard-reduced.png)

(https://ist3-1.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/D/7/J/7D7Jy/636287076637981942.png)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 17, 2019, 12:29:56 pm
As for playable races, how about a fiendish plane touched?  Tieflings are part mortal, part demon or devil.  Oh never mind.  I just read (before I finished typing this) that as of 4th and 5th edition, Tieflings are no longer part fiend, they're descended from mortals who made deals with devils to become more powerful.  LAAAAME.

Eww, that's terrible! If I can play as a vampire or a succubus/incubus and have my party members be nervous AF around me, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Well, they look like this, and I really do hope they'll be available races.  Neverwinter Nights 2 allowed you to choose a planetouched character.

(https://ist3-1.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/D/7/J/7D7Jz/DeanSpencer-tieflingwizard-reduced.png)

(https://ist3-1.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/D/7/J/7D7Jy/636287076637981942.png)

Planetouched? More like tossed into the planes and shaken around in them with demonic panko breadcrumbs.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 18, 2019, 03:51:39 am
(https://ist3-1.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/D/7/J/7D7Jz/DeanSpencer-tieflingwizard-reduced.png)

That is some ugly forehead-cancer that guy has.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 18, 2019, 05:58:48 am
This is how I like my tieflings: 


Representation of Valen Shadobreath from Hordes of the Underdark
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/c067b692-bf20-4500-961b-5571a2cdcba9/d81ms1s-bd17d4d3-287e-444b-a896-eee5d13715b7.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_686,q_75,strp/nwn__hotu___valen_shadowbreath_by_violetris_d81ms1s-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9Njg2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYzA2N2I2OTItYmYyMC00NTAwLTk2MWItNTU3MWEyY2RjYmE5XC9kODFtczFzLWJkMTdkNGQzLTI4N2UtNDQ0Yi1hODk2LWVlZTVkMTM3MTViNy5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NDAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.Nm58ltiD_-2B5lKtw4uD6LzDIHeefRr9pLSHyMVCook)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 18, 2019, 06:06:35 am
This is how I like my tieflings: 


Representation of Valen Shadobreath from Hordes of the Underdark
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/c067b692-bf20-4500-961b-5571a2cdcba9/d81ms1s-bd17d4d3-287e-444b-a896-eee5d13715b7.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_686,q_75,strp/nwn__hotu___valen_shadowbreath_by_violetris_d81ms1s-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9Njg2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYzA2N2I2OTItYmYyMC00NTAwLTk2MWItNTU3MWEyY2RjYmE5XC9kODFtczFzLWJkMTdkNGQzLTI4N2UtNDQ0Yi1hODk2LWVlZTVkMTM3MTViNy5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NDAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.Nm58ltiD_-2B5lKtw4uD6LzDIHeefRr9pLSHyMVCook)

I like the pale skin and glowy eyes. The red hair looks cool against it. :D
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 18, 2019, 12:50:01 pm
This is how I like my tieflings: 


Representation of Valen Shadobreath from Hordes of the Underdark
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/c067b692-bf20-4500-961b-5571a2cdcba9/d81ms1s-bd17d4d3-287e-444b-a896-eee5d13715b7.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_686,q_75,strp/nwn__hotu___valen_shadowbreath_by_violetris_d81ms1s-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9Njg2IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYzA2N2I2OTItYmYyMC00NTAwLTk2MWItNTU3MWEyY2RjYmE5XC9kODFtczFzLWJkMTdkNGQzLTI4N2UtNDQ0Yi1hODk2LWVlZTVkMTM3MTViNy5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NDAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.Nm58ltiD_-2B5lKtw4uD6LzDIHeefRr9pLSHyMVCook)

I like the pale skin and glowy eyes. The red hair looks cool against it. :D

You can only see a little bit of that hair though.  I'm just glad he doesn't manscape.  The hair on his head is pretty nice too!
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 18, 2019, 10:40:20 pm
You can only see a little bit of that hair though.  I'm just glad he doesn't manscape.  The hair on his head is pretty nice too!

Lmao, but do tieflings manscape? They're not human so I don't know if we can call their males men. With horns like that, they look more like goats.

So I would contend that tieflings don't manscape. They...*puts on sunglasses* scapegoat.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 19, 2019, 01:36:01 am
So I would contend that tieflings don't manscape. They...*puts on sunglasses* scapegoat.

*Slays him with Tal'Mahe'Rah sword*
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 19, 2019, 02:29:21 am
You can only see a little bit of that hair though.  I'm just glad he doesn't manscape.  The hair on his head is pretty nice too!

Lmao, but do tieflings manscape? They're not human so I don't know if we can call their males men. With horns like that, they look more like goats.

So I would contend that tieflings don't manscape. They...*puts on sunglasses* scapegoat.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/cNWU2Zeh54VJC/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Pumma on June 19, 2019, 05:31:25 am
Something on the topic: Samuel the Nosferatu is maybe the same Samuel from Redemption who was a companion of Christof Romuald.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 19, 2019, 06:51:58 pm
Something on the topic: Samuel the Nosferatu is maybe the same Samuel from Redemption who was a companion of Christof Romuald.
Why because both Nosferatu share the same really common name of Samuel? They don´t look alike or have even the same voice actor.
I believe like Bloodlines 1 before that they are almost none references to Redemption in Bloodlines 2.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 19, 2019, 10:27:09 pm
Something on the topic: Samuel the Nosferatu is maybe the same Samuel from Redemption who was a companion of Christof Romuald.

THAT'S CLANNIST!!!

I kid, of course. I Googled Samuel because it's been quite a few years since I've played Redemption to completion and everyone other than Pink, Christof (duh), and Wilhelm after the "time jump" is pretty hard for me to remember as far as appearances go. I agree with Wilhelm in that they look nothing alike and doubt they're the same. Cool idea, though! I had forgotten that Samuel was named "Samuel" in Redemption and thus totally failed to make the potential connection.

If any Redemption characters appear, Christof and Serena are the ones I'd want. Oh, and Wilhelm would be pretty cool for a Sabbat character, though I think Redemption does a shit job of selling him as Sabbat because there are some serious moral hurtles to cross that I have difficulty buying Wilhelm would have gotten over, at least based on the way he's acting when we see him again. Or maybe that's just because he's slipping back into his mannerisms from when he and Christof were Kindred BFFs.

Serena would be awesome since she's a Cappadocian. And hawt. :D
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 20, 2019, 02:03:32 am
Something on the topic: Samuel the Nosferatu is maybe the same Samuel from Redemption who was a companion of Christof Romuald.

Makes me wonder what actually happened to Romuald himself.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Pumma on June 20, 2019, 04:55:33 am
I wouldn't judge only on their appearance mainly because Nosferatu in VtMB 2 are presented differently. Look at Slugg. He is nothing like a typical Nosferatu. Samuel also looks strange for a Nosferatu. More probably the case is like Lily in VtMB 1. We have Lily the Toreador in VtMR and a character with the same name and most probably clan in VtMB 1. It's strange but more probably made on purpose than accidental. Also the only reason for Ekaterina and Wilhelm to become Sabbat was their opposition to Ventrue. Now Brujah are not part of the Camarilla so all of them including Christof may choose to become Anarch.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 20, 2019, 05:05:12 am
I wouldn't judge only on their appearance mainly because Nosferatu in VtMB 2 are presented differently. Look at Slugg. He is nothing like a typical Nosferatu. Samuel also looks strange for a Nosferatu. More probably the case is like Lily in VtMB 1. We have Lily the Toreador in VtMR and a character with the same name and most probably clan in VtMB 1. It's strange but more probably made on purpose than accidental. Also the only reason for Ekaterina and Wilhelm to become Sabbat was their opposition to Ventrue. Now Brujah are not part of the Camarilla so all of them including Christof may choose to become Anarch.

Lily in Redemption is a Toreador, whereas Lily in Bloodlines 1 is a Thinblood, which is not a Toreador. I don't have a save with Lily anymore, so I can't check her generation in Redemption, but she was well aware of what she was and had experience as a Kindred. Lily in Bloodlines didn't even know what the Beast was. There is no way that the two Lily characters are the same person.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 20, 2019, 06:05:35 am
Something on the topic: Samuel the Nosferatu is maybe the same Samuel from Redemption who was a companion of Christof Romuald.
Why because both Nosferatu share the same really common name of Samuel? They don´t look alike or have even the same voice actor.
I believe like Bloodlines 1 before that they are almost none references to Redemption in Bloodlines 2.

Something on the topic: Samuel the Nosferatu is maybe the same Samuel from Redemption who was a companion of Christof Romuald.

THAT'S CLANNIST!!!

I kid, of course. I Googled Samuel because it's been quite a few years since I've played Redemption to completion and everyone other than Pink, Christof (duh), and Wilhelm after the "time jump" is pretty hard for me to remember as far as appearances go. I agree with Wilhelm in that they look nothing alike and doubt they're the same. Cool idea, though! I had forgotten that Samuel was named "Samuel" in Redemption and thus totally failed to make the potential connection.

If any Redemption characters appear, Christof and Serena are the ones I'd want. Oh, and Wilhelm would be pretty cool for a Sabbat character, though I think Redemption does a shit job of selling him as Sabbat because there are some serious moral hurtles to cross that I have difficulty buying Wilhelm would have gotten over, at least based on the way he's acting when we see him again. Or maybe that's just because he's slipping back into his mannerisms from when he and Christof were Kindred BFFs.

Serena would be awesome since she's a Cappadocian. And hawt. :D

About Samuel, I have only played maybe the first 30 minutes of Redemption so far, so I never ran into him. 

I don't know how likely it is that they would use characters from Redemption, something like that would be interesting. 

But the points about voice actor and character model don't really prove anything.  If they couldn't get the same voice actor from 20 years ago they would get a new one if they wanted him in there badly enough.  Azura in TES has a different voice actress in every TES game.  Isabella in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age II has a different voice actress, different character model, different skintone, etc EVEN though the same voice actress was still working on Dragon Age II.  So there's a slim chance that it might be the same one.  You never know.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 20, 2019, 06:26:57 am

About Samuel, I have only played maybe the first 30 minutes of Redemption so far, so I never ran into him. 
nce that it might be the same one.  You never know.

Redemption is such a mixed bag for me. Story-wise, I LOVE it, but everything-else-wise, I am repulsed by it. I have forced myself through the game all the way twice, years ago when I was more patient, but it's a real slog. I have so many issues with that game, but yeah, narratively, it's super wonderful.

Redemption could've been amazing if they had gone one way or the other instead of this weird middle ground road they took. By that, I mean that the game wants to be a narrative RPG with lots of dialog, emotions, lore, etc., like Bloodlines, but it also wants to be a Diablo sort of game. Instead of making the game play like a good Diablo clone or at least a moderate one, they shat the bed and it has horrible AI while piling on the lore and VtM stuff, but it fumbles that, too, because you can learn pretty much every discipline from every clan, despite being Brujah and not diablerizing members of those clans or even befriending members of those clans or being owed favors from those clans to any level that makes being taught their disciplines even remotely believable for the player.

Oh and you can drink every vampire to death without anyone caring and only two diableries in the game actually have any meaning, as I recall (narrative ones). And there are bazillions of Kindred all over the place who aren't Sabbat, so my suspension of disbelief is ruined in a Dark Ages town with less humans out at night than there are vampires under the city. =/  I have many other qualms with it, but I wish they'd gone full-on Diablo with it or full-on Bloodlines. Sigh.~

Oh, that adorable Outstar gal on YouTube is doing a playthrough of Redemption now, btw. I think she's only put out like 3 episodes if you're interested in watching it as opposed to having to play through that mess.

Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 20, 2019, 10:25:59 am
I'm watching Outstar playthrough atm, because I never got around to actually play Redemption. Somehow, I'm not a big fan of Christoph right now, he is too paladinish for my taste.

I don't know Samuel, but it would be cool, to have an old vampire from the Middle Ages (or sooner) in Bloodlines 2, so yeah, why not someone from Redemption?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 20, 2019, 12:20:02 pm
I'm watching Outstar playthrough atm, because I never got around to actually play Redemption. Somehow, I'm not a big fan of Christoph right now, he is too paladinish for my taste.

I don't know Samuel, but it would be cool, to have an old vampire from the Middle Ages (or sooner) in Bloodlines 2, so yeah, why not someone from Redemption?

And Samuel is from the modern nights only, as I recall. Serena is the way to go, but I'm biased because she's hawt and I want a Cappadocian in the game. =p
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 20, 2019, 10:11:04 pm

About Samuel, I have only played maybe the first 30 minutes of Redemption so far, so I never ran into him. 
nce that it might be the same one.  You never know.

Redemption is such a mixed bag for me. Story-wise, I LOVE it, but everything-else-wise, I am repulsed by it. I have forced myself through the game all the way twice, years ago when I was more patient, but it's a real slog. I have so many issues with that game, but yeah, narratively, it's super wonderful.

Redemption could've been amazing if they had gone one way or the other instead of this weird middle ground road they took. By that, I mean that the game wants to be a narrative RPG with lots of dialog, emotions, lore, etc., like Bloodlines, but it also wants to be a Diablo sort of game. Instead of making the game play like a good Diablo clone or at least a moderate one, they shat the bed and it has horrible AI while piling on the lore and VtM stuff, but it fumbles that, too, because you can learn pretty much every discipline from every clan, despite being Brujah and not diablerizing members of those clans or even befriending members of those clans or being owed favors from those clans to any level that makes being taught their disciplines even remotely believable for the player.

Oh and you can drink every vampire to death without anyone caring and only two diableries in the game actually have any meaning, as I recall (narrative ones). And there are bazillions of Kindred all over the place who aren't Sabbat, so my suspension of disbelief is ruined in a Dark Ages town with less humans out at night than there are vampires under the city. =/  I have many other qualms with it, but I wish they'd gone full-on Diablo with it or full-on Bloodlines. Sigh.~

Oh, that adorable Outstar gal on YouTube is doing a playthrough of Redemption now, btw. I think she's only put out like 3 episodes if you're interested in watching it as opposed to having to play through that mess.

Its funny because a lot of what you're describing just makes me want to give the game another go.  LOL  Not the Diablo-like stuff, as hack'n slash dungeon crawling has never been my favorite aspect of RPG games, but a town loaded with vampires?  Yes please!  Being able to learn all the disciplines?  Yes please!  I had fun with what little bit of the game I have played, but I knew it was going to be a tempered fun right from the start, so I decided to finish up with a few other games and things before I really devote my attention to Redemption. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 20, 2019, 10:41:44 pm

About Samuel, I have only played maybe the first 30 minutes of Redemption so far, so I never ran into him. 
nce that it might be the same one.  You never know.

Redemption is such a mixed bag for me. Story-wise, I LOVE it, but everything-else-wise, I am repulsed by it. I have forced myself through the game all the way twice, years ago when I was more patient, but it's a real slog. I have so many issues with that game, but yeah, narratively, it's super wonderful.

Redemption could've been amazing if they had gone one way or the other instead of this weird middle ground road they took. By that, I mean that the game wants to be a narrative RPG with lots of dialog, emotions, lore, etc., like Bloodlines, but it also wants to be a Diablo sort of game. Instead of making the game play like a good Diablo clone or at least a moderate one, they shat the bed and it has horrible AI while piling on the lore and VtM stuff, but it fumbles that, too, because you can learn pretty much every discipline from every clan, despite being Brujah and not diablerizing members of those clans or even befriending members of those clans or being owed favors from those clans to any level that makes being taught their disciplines even remotely believable for the player.

Oh and you can drink every vampire to death without anyone caring and only two diableries in the game actually have any meaning, as I recall (narrative ones). And there are bazillions of Kindred all over the place who aren't Sabbat, so my suspension of disbelief is ruined in a Dark Ages town with less humans out at night than there are vampires under the city. =/  I have many other qualms with it, but I wish they'd gone full-on Diablo with it or full-on Bloodlines. Sigh.~

Oh, that adorable Outstar gal on YouTube is doing a playthrough of Redemption now, btw. I think she's only put out like 3 episodes if you're interested in watching it as opposed to having to play through that mess.

Its funny because a lot of what you're describing just makes me want to give the game another go.  LOL  Not the Diablo-like stuff, as hack'n slash dungeon crawling has never been my favorite aspect of RPG games, but a town loaded with vampires?  Yes please!  Being able to learn all the disciplines?  Yes please!  I had fun with what little bit of the game I have played, but I knew it was going to be a tempered fun right from the start, so I decided to finish up with a few other games and things before I really devote my attention to Redemption.

Lol, well, mayhaps I should add a smidgen of clarification before I get you too amped up for it. Maybe 5% of the vampires you encounter are characters and look different from one another. The rest are generic look-alikes of each clan, and are all auto-hostile toward you, just being there to make the dungeons take longer. And the dungeons are almost always very uninteresting without much in the way of lore of dialog along the way, even between your coterie members.

Oh, and before you get excited at the fact that this is the only VtM video game so far that gives you a full coterie that you control, I would like to point out that the A.I. is complete and utter garbage. They use their disciplines with reckless abandon, even when you set them to NOT do that, and they get themselves killed constantly. The easiest way to beat the game is to tell the characters to stay put and NOT come around until you've killed everything solo as the protagonist. Heck, if you allow them to just do whatever, they'll kill the enemy you're draining to get blood back to power your healing and disciplines, thus screwing you over further.

And learning all the disciplines? Sounds cool, but many of the disciplines don't really work or are pathetic. You only want Celerity, Awe (best ability in the game for regular enemies), prison of ice, and...I can't remember what else, but it's some Tremere spell that damages like cauldron of blood or some fire or lightning thing. Anywho, you're better off skipping like 70% of the Disciplines as you'll never have enough XP to buy them. Also, you're going to be pouring your XP into Dexterity to max it out completely early on because even at max Dex, it's difficult to hit enemies. Random swing-and-miss mechanics.

Oh, and chests contain random gear...and there's a ton of useless trash, so you're better off save-scumming like crazy in front of chests to get stuff that isn't garbage to give yourself a good chance of being able to progress.

Hopefully I have successfully crushed any hopes and dreams. XD
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 21, 2019, 01:32:47 am
Hopefully I have successfully crushed any hopes and dreams. XD

Eh..maybe somewhat.  lol
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Nanaloma on June 21, 2019, 01:53:11 am
AoR fixed the AI.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 21, 2019, 02:05:06 am
I wouldn't judge only on their appearance mainly because Nosferatu in VtMB 2 are presented differently. Look at Slugg. He is nothing like a typical Nosferatu. Samuel also looks strange for a Nosferatu. More probably the case is like Lily in VtMB 1. We have Lily the Toreador in VtMR and a character with the same name and most probably clan in VtMB 1. It's strange but more probably made on purpose than accidental. Also the only reason for Ekaterina and Wilhelm to become Sabbat was their opposition to Ventrue. Now Brujah are not part of the Camarilla so all of them including Christof may choose to become Anarch.

Graphical limitations though. I'm under the impression that Nosferatu were supposed to look more varied in their... beauty !
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 21, 2019, 02:35:27 am
AoR fixed the AI.

I sure hope so, because wow it's bad in the original, lol.

I don't know that a game like Redemption was very good for having a coterie so much as a VtM game done like the Shadowrun Returns/Dragonfall/Hong Kong games would do better with a coterie of different clans. I would be so hot for that.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Pumma on June 21, 2019, 05:02:32 am
I wouldn't judge only on their appearance mainly because Nosferatu in VtMB 2 are presented differently. Look at Slugg. He is nothing like a typical Nosferatu. Samuel also looks strange for a Nosferatu. More probably the case is like Lily in VtMB 1. We have Lily the Toreador in VtMR and a character with the same name and most probably clan in VtMB 1. It's strange but more probably made on purpose than accidental. Also the only reason for Ekaterina and Wilhelm to become Sabbat was their opposition to Ventrue. Now Brujah are not part of the Camarilla so all of them including Christof may choose to become Anarch.

Lily in Redemption is a Toreador, whereas Lily in Bloodlines 1 is a Thinblood, which is not a Toreador. I don't have a save with Lily anymore, so I can't check her generation in Redemption, but she was well aware of what she was and had experience as a Kindred. Lily in Bloodlines didn't even know what the Beast was. There is no way that the two Lily characters are the same person.

Of course they are not one and the same, but a characters with same name and clan would not be for the first time. Even Thinbloods have clan (look at Slugg) but they usually do not have all the clan features.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 21, 2019, 06:35:55 am
I wouldn't judge only on their appearance mainly because Nosferatu in VtMB 2 are presented differently. Look at Slugg. He is nothing like a typical Nosferatu. Samuel also looks strange for a Nosferatu. More probably the case is like Lily in VtMB 1. We have Lily the Toreador in VtMR and a character with the same name and most probably clan in VtMB 1. It's strange but more probably made on purpose than accidental. Also the only reason for Ekaterina and Wilhelm to become Sabbat was their opposition to Ventrue. Now Brujah are not part of the Camarilla so all of them including Christof may choose to become Anarch.

Lily in Redemption is a Toreador, whereas Lily in Bloodlines 1 is a Thinblood, which is not a Toreador. I don't have a save with Lily anymore, so I can't check her generation in Redemption, but she was well aware of what she was and had experience as a Kindred. Lily in Bloodlines didn't even know what the Beast was. There is no way that the two Lily characters are the same person.

Of course they are not one and the same, but a characters with same name and clan would not be for the first time. Even Thinbloods have clan (look at Slugg) but they usually do not have all the clan features.

Slugg is an anomaly rather than the norm.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 21, 2019, 10:15:03 am
But the points about voice actor and character model don't really prove anything.
Really whats the point in bring some character with he/she doesn´t look and sound simliar in previous games?
Both Samuel´s have also different personalities.
They share only three things. They are both male Nosferatu and their forename is Samuel thats all.
To be honest i have to see some Lets Plays to remind me which personality Samuel had.
He is a Nosferatu but overall he is a nice bland token guy.

Also he should Samuel appear in Seattle? Last time we saw him he was in New York.
Maybe the Redemption characters fits for the other Vampire Game? Coteries of New York than Bloodlines 2! ;)

In my personal opinion i really don´t need or want any Redemption character in Bloodlines 2 but i have to pick
well i would choose Pink
Abdul al-Hazim

Quote
Isabella in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age II has a different voice actress, different character model, different skintone, etc EVEN though the same voice actress was still working on Dragon Age II.  So there's a slim chance that it might be the same one.  You never know.
There were reasons for the many Isabela changes.
First recast her voice actress to to reduce confusion because she had also voiced Queen Anora in Origins.
And her Origin skin color was a bug.
"According to David Gaider , Isabela always had dark skin. Gaider says the promo art of her being pale is a marketing error. In Origins, she is actually dark skinned, but the lighting of the game makes her pale. This can be checked by putting her model into the DA Toolset and seeing it without the Pearl's bad lighting."
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonage/images/8/89/IsabelaDAO.png/revision/latest?cb=20110212163831)

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonage/images/2/22/Isabela_Face_Toolset.PNG/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/511?cb=20180506141738)

And for her charactermodel like almost all NPC Models Isabela Outfit wasn´t that memorable for a major character / companion. ;)
https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Isabela
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 21, 2019, 04:52:09 pm
Really whats the point in bring some character with he/she doesn´t look and sound simliar in previous games?
Both Samuel´s have also different personalities.
They share only three things. They are both male Nosferatu and their forename is Samuel thats all.
To be honest i have to see some Lets Plays to remind me which personality Samuel had.
He is a Nosferatu but overall he is a nice bland token guy.

Also he should Samuel appear in Seattle? Last time we saw him he was in New York.
Maybe the Redemption characters fits for the other Vampire Game? Coteries of New York than Bloodlines 2! ;)

In my personal opinion i really don´t need or want any Redemption character in Bloodlines 2 but i have to pick
well i would choose Pink
Abdul al-Hazim

Quote
Isabella in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age II has a different voice actress, different character model, different skintone, etc EVEN though the same voice actress was still working on Dragon Age II.  So there's a slim chance that it might be the same one.  You never know.
There were reasons for the many Isabela changes.
First recast her voice actress to to reduce confusion because she had also voiced Queen Anora in Origins.
And her Origin skin color was a bug.
"According to David Gaider , Isabela always had dark skin. Gaider says the promo art of her being pale is a marketing error. In Origins, she is actually dark skinned, but the lighting of the game makes her pale. This can be checked by putting her model into the DA Toolset and seeing it without the Pearl's bad lighting."
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonage/images/8/89/IsabelaDAO.png/revision/latest?cb=20110212163831)

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonage/images/2/22/Isabela_Face_Toolset.PNG/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/511?cb=20180506141738)

And for her charactermodel like almost all NPC Models Isabela Outfit wasn´t that memorable for a major character / companion. ;)
https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Isabela

They have excuses for it. Great to know. That doesn't change my point.

As for Samuel and "what's the point"...well, I am not the devs.  I don't know what their motives are.  I'm not even married to the idea that they are the same Samuel.  They probably aren't.  As I said before, I haven't even played the game enough to even meet the original Samuel.  I was merely saying that different character models and voice actors don't mean its a different character and I stand by that.  Shaundi from the Saints Row franchise is another that comes to mind.  They got a different voice actress to play her in the third and fourth games and in every game her breasts get bigger and her character model certainly changed quite a bit.  Even her personality changed (so you can't even go by the two Samuels having different personalities). Heck, in a sort of meta plot they even acknowledge all these design and personality changes in Shaundi in-game in Saints Row IV. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 21, 2019, 09:39:46 pm
They have excuses for it. Great to know. That doesn't change my point.

As for Samuel and "what's the point"...well, I am not the devs.  I don't know what their motives are.  I'm not even married to the idea that they are the same Samuel.  They probably aren't.  As I said before, I haven't even played the game enough to even meet the original Samuel.  I was merely saying that different character models and voice actors don't mean its a different character and I stand by that. 
Sorry if a returning character has a different voice/skin and even a different personality what is the point of bringing him or her back?

Starts at 8:00


Sorry but there is no way that Bloodlines 2 Samuel is the same as Redemption Samuel.
Both are simply just two male Nosferatu who spare coincidental the same name. And that´s it.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 21, 2019, 11:08:54 pm

Sorry if a returning character has a different voice/skin and even a different personality what is the point of bringing him or her back?

Who knows?

Sorry but there is no way that Bloodlines 2 Samuel is the same as Redemption Samuel.
Both are simply just two male Nosferatu who spare coincidental the same name. And that´s it.

I genuinely don't care if he is or he isn't.  You can be as passionate about your viewpoint about it as you want, more power to you.   I am merely stating AND still standing by my point that sometimes 1 character will get a new look and voice for a sequel.  It has happened, does happen and will continue to happen.  There's nothing anybody can do to change that fact.  If you want to say it shouldn't though...be my guest.  You have a right to your opinion.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 22, 2019, 12:42:24 am
So we've had a fair bit of speculation that Bertram Tung might be in Bloodlines 2 based on his voice actor being involved, and the fact that his character was fairly memorable despite not having quite as much screen time or direct quest involvement as some other Kindred.

Since Nosferatu don't have much of a public presence, and as he used him to that end in Bloodlines 1, if Bertram Tung is in Bloodlines 2, I wonder if Knox will also be in it. Nosferatu generally aren't going to have a plethora of personal ghouls like Ventrue sometimes do, and we know that Tung values Knox's talents as a faux-dumbass situation-fixer.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 22, 2019, 01:25:50 am
So we've had a fair bit of speculation that Bertram Tung might be in Bloodlines 2 based on his voice actor being involved, and the fact that his character was fairly memorable despite not having quite as much screen time or direct quest involvement as some other Kindred.

Since Nosferatu don't have much of a public presence, and as he used him to that end in Bloodlines 1, if Bertram Tung is in Bloodlines 2, I wonder if Knox will also be in it. Nosferatu generally aren't going to have a plethora of personal ghouls like Ventrue sometimes do, and we know that Tung values Knox's talents as a faux-dumbass situation-fixer.

I'd enjoy seeing Knox make a return.  I always found him likable. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 22, 2019, 01:59:08 am
So we've had a fair bit of speculation that Bertram Tung might be in Bloodlines 2 based on his voice actor being involved, and the fact that his character was fairly memorable despite not having quite as much screen time or direct quest involvement as some other Kindred.

Since Nosferatu don't have much of a public presence, and as he used him to that end in Bloodlines 1, if Bertram Tung is in Bloodlines 2, I wonder if Knox will also be in it. Nosferatu generally aren't going to have a plethora of personal ghouls like Ventrue sometimes do, and we know that Tung values Knox's talents as a faux-dumbass situation-fixer.

I'd enjoy seeing Knox make a return.  I always found him likable.

Geez, oh man!~
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 22, 2019, 02:05:22 am
I'd enjoy seeing Knox make a return.  I always found him likable.

He also has no death state whatsoever as well ;) !
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 22, 2019, 02:37:54 am
So we've had a fair bit of speculation that Bertram Tung might be in Bloodlines 2 based on his voice actor being involved, and the fact that his character was fairly memorable despite not having quite as much screen time or direct quest involvement as some other Kindred.

Since Nosferatu don't have much of a public presence, and as he used him to that end in Bloodlines 1, if Bertram Tung is in Bloodlines 2, I wonder if Knox will also be in it. Nosferatu generally aren't going to have a plethora of personal ghouls like Ventrue sometimes do, and we know that Tung values Knox's talents as a faux-dumbass situation-fixer.

I'd enjoy seeing Knox make a return.  I always found him likable.

Geez, oh man!~

Ha ha, yes!

I'd enjoy seeing Knox make a return.  I always found him likable.

He also has no death state whatsoever as well ;) !

Right, him making a return would make sense!  Same with Bertram.  The one time I picked a fight with him, I couldn't kill him.  He was clearly set to "essential" or something. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 22, 2019, 06:11:40 am
I would love having Bertram and Knox return in Bloodlines 2.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 22, 2019, 07:40:10 am
I would love having Bertram and Knox return in Bloodlines 2.

I actually like Knox better than Bertram, though narratively, Knox's reason for being as he is, is due to Bertram. That "faux-enthusiasm" is pretty darn charming in the line delivery for Knox, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 22, 2019, 08:16:19 am
I am merely stating AND still standing by my point that sometimes 1 character will get a new look and voice for a sequel. 
I don´t argue with that. Your examples are speaking for themselves but my point is that a returning character has to have at least one characteristic
which also the previous incarnation had.
Voice actor, similar charactermodel or personality. The latter is my opinion the more important one.
I bet that all our examples for returning characters haven´t chance that much in personality.
DA 2 Isabela is still the same free spirit and sex focused character like in Origins.

Quote
It has happened, does happen and will continue to happen.  There's nothing anybody can do to change that fact.  If you want to say it shouldn't though...be my guest.  You have a right to your opinion.
Diplomatic but a questionable statement. I really don´t like the everything is possible argument.
You have to rule  many things out or it would become absurd.

Like the crazy malkavian guy from Gamecover in truth Beckett or Smiling Jack. According to your argument this could be still possible. ;)

He also has no death state whatsoever as well ;) !
You can kill Knox in front of the clinic or if you really piss him off he attacks you at the Blood hunt.
But i wouldn´t mind if Knox is back. But if they decide to bring only one Bloodlines 1 Ghoul back well i´d prefer Romero.
As long as it is not Heather i am ok with any returning Ghoul.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wesp5 on June 22, 2019, 09:10:03 am
You can kill Knox in front of the clinic or if you really piss him off he attacks you at the Blood hunt.

This. Also the new Samuel pretty much has the same function as Tung, a Nosferatu to speak to in the first hub, so I don't see why they would get Tung back...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 22, 2019, 11:01:54 am
This. Also the new Samuel pretty much has the same function as Tung, a Nosferatu to speak to in the first hub, so I don't see why they would get Tung back...
Well i doubt that any returning character expect the TV Anchor has the same story function in Bloodlines 2 than in 1.
If Bertram is really back i assume in a more different role. Maybe as questgiver this time.

It would be cool if Bertram is in Bloodlines 2 but its rather unlikely. He wasn´t that iconic in Bloodlines 1 but i´d love if they still do something with his character.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 22, 2019, 11:42:59 am
I would love having Bertram and Knox return in Bloodlines 2.

I actually like Knox better than Bertram, though narratively, Knox's reason for being as he is, is due to Bertram. That "faux-enthusiasm" is pretty darn charming in the line delivery for Knox, in my opinion.

I agree, but I really like Bertram too. The way, he calls my character cupcake is kind of sweet and reminded me a bit of Varric and his nicknames
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 22, 2019, 11:45:47 am
This. Also the new Samuel pretty much has the same function as Tung, a Nosferatu to speak to in the first hub, so I don't see why they would get Tung back...

Unless he was a fan favorite but... I'm not really sure about that.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 22, 2019, 12:19:30 pm
It would be cool if Bertram is in Bloodlines 2 but its rather unlikely. He wasn´t that iconic in Bloodlines 1 but i´d love if they still do something with his character.

I think he was fairly iconic actually. If he returned, he most likely wouldln't fill the same role, I agree.  But its like when Kelly Chambers from Mass Effect 2 returned for a cameo in Mass Effect 3.  Samantha Traynor was filling the role she once filled, but she was still in the game, provided she didn't die in Mass Effect 2 at the Collector Base, which she could have.  But if Shepard saved her in time, she returns for a couple of appearances in Mass Effect 3.   Same with several other characters, in fact.   

Now its unlikely Bloodlines 2 will import our saves from Bloodlines 1, but if it did, that would probably appease a lot of people who would otherwise pitch a fit if characters they killed in their games made appearances in the sequel. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 22, 2019, 12:41:16 pm
Now its unlikely Bloodlines 2 will import our saves from Bloodlines 1, but if it did, that would probably appease a lot of people who would otherwise pitch a fit if characters they killed in their games made appearances in the sequel.
I think they will retcon some decisions and/or make their own Canon.
For example they could ignore Pisha death and bring her back but characters like Ming Xiao should stay dead.
It really depends on the character. A Save Import isn´t a necessary feature but if they build one for Bloodlines 2 why not?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 22, 2019, 03:50:33 pm
Now its unlikely Bloodlines 2 will import our saves from Bloodlines 1, but if it did, that would probably appease a lot of people who would otherwise pitch a fit if characters they killed in their games made appearances in the sequel.
I think they will retcon some decisions and/or make their own Canon.
For example they could ignore Pisha death and bring her back but characters like Ming Xiao should stay dead.
It really depends on the character. A Save Import isn´t a necessary feature but if they build one for Bloodlines 2 why not?

Lulz, and for me, Pisha is the only character I 100% want dead from the first game who could possibly not have died. I liked LaCroix and Ming-Xiao WAY better than her.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 22, 2019, 04:29:47 pm
Lulz, and for me, Pisha is the only character I 100% want dead from the first game who could possibly not have died. I liked LaCroix and Ming-Xiao WAY better than her.
Well i like Pisha and i find her an interesting character. Also she is more sincere in her motives than LaCroix or Ming-Xiao. But i guess your problem is that she has to eat (human) flesh / meat. ;)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 22, 2019, 05:42:17 pm
Lulz, and for me, Pisha is the only character I 100% want dead from the first game who could possibly not have died. I liked LaCroix and Ming-Xiao WAY better than her.
Well i like Pisha and i find her an interesting character. Also she is more sincere in her motives than LaCroix or Ming-Xiao. But i guess your problem is that she has to eat (human) flesh / meat. ;)

I certainly do take umbrage with it, though I wouldn't mind her so much if she at least tried to do it Dexter-style. Find murderous scum-bags, pedophiles, rapists, etc., and nom them, lady! In the World of Darkness, where everything is more corrupt and messed up that in our world, it would be eeeeeasy to find someone wicked to kill every night. Instead, she just grabs some homeless people. Sure, a few of them might meet that criteria, but she never claims to be killing evil folks; only those who people won't notice went missing.

I don't give a shit if someone notices that a few people went missing. The Inquisition is looking for drained bodies, not piles of bones with bits of gristle stuck to them. Worst case scenario, they might suspect Lupine Glasswalkers or Bone Gnawers, NOT Kindred.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 22, 2019, 06:34:23 pm
It would be cool if Bertram is in Bloodlines 2 but its rather unlikely. He wasn´t that iconic in Bloodlines 1 but i´d love if they still do something with his character.

I think he was fairly iconic actually. If he returned, he most likely wouldln't fill the same role, I agree.  But its like when Kelly Chambers from Mass Effect 2 returned for a cameo in Mass Effect 3.  Samantha Traynor was filling the role she once filled, but she was still in the game, provided she didn't die in Mass Effect 2 at the Collector Base, which she could have.  But if Shepard saved her in time, she returns for a couple of appearances in Mass Effect 3.   Same with several other characters, in fact.   

Now its unlikely Bloodlines 2 will import our saves from Bloodlines 1, but if it did, that would probably appease a lot of people who would otherwise pitch a fit if characters they killed in their games made appearances in the sequel.

I agree about Bertram being a pretty iconic character. I think, he would definitively deserve a cameo. He doesn't have to be our guide in the WoD, he could be a quest giver or something like that
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 22, 2019, 06:39:56 pm
Now its unlikely Bloodlines 2 will import our saves from Bloodlines 1, but if it did, that would probably appease a lot of people who would otherwise pitch a fit if characters they killed in their games made appearances in the sequel.
I think they will retcon some decisions and/or make their own Canon.
For example they could ignore Pisha death and bring her back but characters like Ming Xiao should stay dead.
It really depends on the character. A Save Import isn´t a necessary feature but if they build one for Bloodlines 2 why not?

Lulz, and for me, Pisha is the only character I 100% want dead from the first game who could possibly not have died. I liked LaCroix and Ming-Xiao WAY better than her.

I must say, I find Ming Xiao and Lacroix to be the worst scumbags in the game. I think, characters like Pisha are a logical addition to such a grim and dark game. But then, I'm the girl who loves Andrei (and is happy that she can join the Sabbat with CQM).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 22, 2019, 07:36:38 pm
But then, I'm the girl who loves Andrei (and is happy that she can join the Sabbat with CQM).
Well Andrei is one of characters who clearly won´t make a return for Bloodlines 2.  ;)
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: fylimar on June 22, 2019, 09:21:39 pm
But then, I'm the girl who loves Andrei (and is happy that she can join the Sabbat with CQM).
Well Andrei is one of characters who clearly won´t make a return for Bloodlines 2.  ;)

Yes, sadly not.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 23, 2019, 12:53:07 am
Well Andrei is one of characters who clearly won´t make a return for Bloodlines 2.  ;)

That leaves room for a ton new sabbat assholes to murder !

Which apparently we will not be able to join in Bloodlines 2... wonder now if they'll even appear.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 23, 2019, 03:15:06 am
Well Andrei is one of characters who clearly won´t make a return for Bloodlines 2.  ;)

That leaves room for a ton new sabbat assholes to murder !

Which apparently we will not be able to join in Bloodlines 2... wonder now if they'll even appear.

I'm sure we'll see at least one Sabbat, but it's possible they might not be a relevant faction. That said, though, if they aren't a faction in Bloodlines 2 (even if we can't join them), then what supernaturals are we going to fight? Humans die like flies, so mid-game onward, there won't be any challenge if there are no enemy Kindred.

Sometimes Anarchs and Camarilla go to war, so I suppose that's a possibility, though...
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 24, 2019, 04:26:12 pm
Well Andrei is one of characters who clearly won´t make a return for Bloodlines 2.  ;)

That leaves room for a ton new sabbat assholes to murder !

Which apparently we will not be able to join in Bloodlines 2... wonder now if they'll even appear.

I'm sure we'll see at least one Sabbat, but it's possible they might not be a relevant faction. That said, though, if they aren't a faction in Bloodlines 2 (even if we can't join them), then what supernaturals are we going to fight? Humans die like flies, so mid-game onward, there won't be any challenge if there are no enemy Kindred.

Sometimes Anarchs and Camarilla go to war, so I suppose that's a possibility, though...

Never been a huge fan of the Sabbat, but I guess we really do need a supernatural enemy to fight.  I am not looking forward to hunter overkill, that's for sure.  Would rather have the Sabbat than that.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 24, 2019, 08:50:31 pm
Well Andrei is one of characters who clearly won´t make a return for Bloodlines 2.  ;)

That leaves room for a ton new sabbat assholes to murder !

Which apparently we will not be able to join in Bloodlines 2... wonder now if they'll even appear.

I'm sure we'll see at least one Sabbat, but it's possible they might not be a relevant faction. That said, though, if they aren't a faction in Bloodlines 2 (even if we can't join them), then what supernaturals are we going to fight? Humans die like flies, so mid-game onward, there won't be any challenge if there are no enemy Kindred.

Sometimes Anarchs and Camarilla go to war, so I suppose that's a possibility, though...

Never been a huge fan of the Sabbat, but I guess we really do need a supernatural enemy to fight.  I am not looking forward to hunter overkill, that's for sure.  Would rather have the Sabbat than that.

Yeah, I enjoy variety. I mean, I'm down for a lot of hunters being in the game...IF they are from different hunter factions, but not 100% the same group. I felt like Bloodlines 1 came dangerously close to having too many hunters, if only because the Society of Leopold just isn't interesting to me...at all.

Why? Well, they're a cult that is claiming justification for their actions based on the Bible...and I've read the Bible, yet there's no justification for killing anyone in the post-Mosaic era outside of literal war, actual self defense, and actual criminal execution, etc. from the New Testament going forward. So they bore me in that their ideology does not rely on any reasonable logic even if accepting the Bible as being factual. And even more so, I'm bored by their attack-on-sight ideology, which means zero dialog of interest with them.

Hell, even Bloodlines 1 let Beckett have the only potential fun dialog with the Society of Leopold when he threatened its members by hanging them off a roof and saying he'd let go if they didn't tell him what he wanted to know. Granted, being able to deceive hunters in dialog, claiming to be human and even join them for a quest (which will go VERY badly for the hunters by the end of it, huehuehue~) could be pretty darn fun. There's just not a lot of variety to them, though.

Now, hunters like Yukie...THAT is where shit gets interesting. They've either been "Imbued" (granted abilities as per the Hunter: The Reckoning rulebooks, etc.) by some strange force, or they learned of the supernatural and want to take matters into their own hands. Here, they can have their own motivations, whether it's to wipe out all supernaturals, all of a certain kind of supernatural, a specific supernatural fiend (like the hengeyokai), or to do it up "Dexter-style" and have specific rules/requirements/a "code" you abide by for killing supernaturals who have committed certain acts too unacceptable for you to permit them to remain in the world.

Back to darker hunters, the Second Inquisition consists of a lot of different people, but they not have a "government element" to hunters in VtM 5, which is neat. Text messages need to be in code in case they're intercepted, and it had better not be easily figured out in case someone suspects you of being Kindred and gets your info. Phone calls might be monitored, so burner phones are a plus, discarded after one use. Social media can be used to see if someone hasn't aged at all after ten years (RIP make-up tutorial people getting killed as suspected Kindred for looking too good for too long, eh? XD). One or more agents of the Second Inquisition are deep in each branch of the federal government and the various lesser governments, and they're present not just in the U.S., but in the U.K. and several other locations, likely to a lesser degree. Tactical vampiric espionage action! :D

Heck, we can even have mercenary hunters who know of the supernatural world and take payment from the highest bidder to kill whichever supernaturals the hiring party wants killed. Of course, I can see such folks being VERY short-lived if they do business with the wrong Kindred. After all, why shouldn't the Ventrue who hired a hunter to kill a young Brujah rebel starting a revolt, kill the hunter he/she hired to "tie up loose ends" when it come mean his/her ruin if the Brujah's allies ever track down and question the hunter in question?

But yeah, lots of cool shit we could have come up with hunters. Unfortunately, almost none of the cool stuff involves the Society of Leopold, and people love sticking them in VtM too often for my tastes.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 24, 2019, 11:16:33 pm
Why? Well, they're a cult that is claiming justification for their actions based on the Bible...and I've read the Bible, yet there's no justification for killing anyone in the post-Mosaic era outside of literal war, actual self defense, and actual criminal execution, etc. from the New Testament going forward. So they bore me in that their ideology does not rely on any reasonable logic even if accepting the Bible as being factual. And even more so, I'm bored by their attack-on-sight ideology, which means zero dialog of interest with them.

Although if you think about it, the Society doesn't see vampires as living human beings.  They see them as soulless corpses animated by devils or demons.  So any personal interpretations of scripture about when its OK to kill another human being aside, if they're right (and they firmly believe that they are), they aren't committing any type of murder by slaying that which is already dead and that which isn't even human.  Even vampires know that they're already dead and they certainly don't identify as human.  They aren't demons in the strictest World of Darkness senses (and there are multiple), but hunters of every type seem to think that they are.  Even Yukie, if my memory serves.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 25, 2019, 05:40:07 am
Why? Well, they're a cult that is claiming justification for their actions based on the Bible...and I've read the Bible, yet there's no justification for killing anyone in the post-Mosaic era outside of literal war, actual self defense, and actual criminal execution, etc. from the New Testament going forward. So they bore me in that their ideology does not rely on any reasonable logic even if accepting the Bible as being factual. And even more so, I'm bored by their attack-on-sight ideology, which means zero dialog of interest with them.

Although if you think about it, the Society doesn't see vampires as living human beings.  They see them as soulless corpses animated by devils or demons.  So any personal interpretations of scripture about when its OK to kill another human being aside, if they're right (and they firmly believe that they are), they aren't committing any type of murder by slaying that which is already dead and that which isn't even human.  Even vampires know that they're already dead and they certainly don't identify as human.  They aren't demons in the strictest World of Darkness senses (and there are multiple), but hunters of every type seem to think that they are.  Even Yukie, if my memory serves.

Yeah, they don't see them as being people, but that's because they have to buy into that lie to weasel out of adhering to the same religious text they claim to be on their entire mission to adhere to, which is pretty ironic. Long story short, though, I hates me some Society of Leopold.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 27, 2019, 07:23:12 am
Why? Well, they're a cult that is claiming justification for their actions based on the Bible...and I've read the Bible, yet there's no justification for killing anyone in the post-Mosaic era outside of literal war, actual self defense, and actual criminal execution, etc. from the New Testament going forward. So they bore me in that their ideology does not rely on any reasonable logic even if accepting the Bible as being factual. And even more so, I'm bored by their attack-on-sight ideology, which means zero dialog of interest with them.

Although if you think about it, the Society doesn't see vampires as living human beings.  They see them as soulless corpses animated by devils or demons.  So any personal interpretations of scripture about when its OK to kill another human being aside, if they're right (and they firmly believe that they are), they aren't committing any type of murder by slaying that which is already dead and that which isn't even human.  Even vampires know that they're already dead and they certainly don't identify as human.  They aren't demons in the strictest World of Darkness senses (and there are multiple), but hunters of every type seem to think that they are.  Even Yukie, if my memory serves.

Yeah, they don't see them as being people, but that's because they have to buy into that lie to weasel out of adhering to the same religious text they claim to be on their entire mission to adhere to, which is pretty ironic. Long story short, though, I hates me some Society of Leopold.

Do you feel that God as he's portrayed in the WoD is angered when vampires are killed by hunters?
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 28, 2019, 05:00:06 am
Why? Well, they're a cult that is claiming justification for their actions based on the Bible...and I've read the Bible, yet there's no justification for killing anyone in the post-Mosaic era outside of literal war, actual self defense, and actual criminal execution, etc. from the New Testament going forward. So they bore me in that their ideology does not rely on any reasonable logic even if accepting the Bible as being factual. And even more so, I'm bored by their attack-on-sight ideology, which means zero dialog of interest with them.

Although if you think about it, the Society doesn't see vampires as living human beings.  They see them as soulless corpses animated by devils or demons.  So any personal interpretations of scripture about when its OK to kill another human being aside, if they're right (and they firmly believe that they are), they aren't committing any type of murder by slaying that which is already dead and that which isn't even human.  Even vampires know that they're already dead and they certainly don't identify as human.  They aren't demons in the strictest World of Darkness senses (and there are multiple), but hunters of every type seem to think that they are.  Even Yukie, if my memory serves.

Yeah, they don't see them as being people, but that's because they have to buy into that lie to weasel out of adhering to the same religious text they claim to be on their entire mission to adhere to, which is pretty ironic. Long story short, though, I hates me some Society of Leopold.

Do you feel that God as he's portrayed in the WoD is angered when vampires are killed by hunters?

Hmm, I can't say that I'm too familiar with the WoD "version" of God. If applying our world's Bible, however, I would say that all the rules still apply when it comes to whether or not to kill someone. Self defense, saving the life of another being actively killed (i.e. a frenzying Kindred about to slaughter kine) , unlawful entry into someone's home, or an outright war-style battle, though that would be more Vampire the Dark Ages than modern times, I think. Oh, and of course execution for crimes.

The only difficult one off the top of my head, however, would be whether or not to execute a Kindred who claims he/she killed a human or another Kindred due to frenzying, because it could be difficult to know for certain. If it was purely an accident and the Kindred wasn't negligent in the scenario (i.e. not feeding and whimsically going somewhere that might set off a frenzy like the E.R. of a hospital where people are bleeding from gunshot wounds, etc.), then I would say that he/she shouldn't be put to death for the incident. Heck, any punishment at all might be cruel and unusual.

But that's the tough part...knowing if it was on purpose or not, and finding those other factors out to determine intentional killing or gross negligence.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 30, 2019, 12:06:37 pm

Hmm, I can't say that I'm too familiar with the WoD "version" of God. If applying our world's Bible, however, I would say that all the rules still apply when it comes to whether or not to kill someone. Self defense, saving the life of another being actively killed (i.e. a frenzying Kindred about to slaughter kine) , unlawful entry into someone's home, or an outright war-style battle, though that would be more Vampire the Dark Ages than modern times, I think. Oh, and of course execution for crimes.

The only difficult one off the top of my head, however, would be whether or not to execute a Kindred who claims he/she killed a human or another Kindred due to frenzying, because it could be difficult to know for certain. If it was purely an accident and the Kindred wasn't negligent in the scenario (i.e. not feeding and whimsically going somewhere that might set off a frenzy like the E.R. of a hospital where people are bleeding from gunshot wounds, etc.), then I would say that he/she shouldn't be put to death for the incident. Heck, any punishment at all might be cruel and unusual.

But that's the tough part...knowing if it was on purpose or not, and finding those other factors out to determine intentional killing or gross negligence.

All true WoD Hunters are "imbued" with their powers by someone.  From what I understand, the beings that imbue them are the Scarlet Queen and the Ebon Dragon.  These beings are the Ministers of Creation.  One theory is that they are Seraphim, the highest and most powerful Choir of Angels and one of their titles is "The Messengers".  Which makes sense since "Angel" literally means "Messenger".  At any rate, Angels or lower gods, they work for the one known as the August Personage of Jade.  This one is known to the Abarahamics as Yahweh, Elohim, Jehovah or Allah.  "God" for short.  This implies to me that in the canon and continuity of the World of Darkness, it is the Will of God that Hunters slay monsters. 
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on June 30, 2019, 08:23:37 pm

Hmm, I can't say that I'm too familiar with the WoD "version" of God. If applying our world's Bible, however, I would say that all the rules still apply when it comes to whether or not to kill someone. Self defense, saving the life of another being actively killed (i.e. a frenzying Kindred about to slaughter kine) , unlawful entry into someone's home, or an outright war-style battle, though that would be more Vampire the Dark Ages than modern times, I think. Oh, and of course execution for crimes.

The only difficult one off the top of my head, however, would be whether or not to execute a Kindred who claims he/she killed a human or another Kindred due to frenzying, because it could be difficult to know for certain. If it was purely an accident and the Kindred wasn't negligent in the scenario (i.e. not feeding and whimsically going somewhere that might set off a frenzy like the E.R. of a hospital where people are bleeding from gunshot wounds, etc.), then I would say that he/she shouldn't be put to death for the incident. Heck, any punishment at all might be cruel and unusual.

But that's the tough part...knowing if it was on purpose or not, and finding those other factors out to determine intentional killing or gross negligence.

All true WoD Hunters are "imbued" with their powers by someone.  From what I understand, the beings that imbue them are the Scarlet Queen and the Ebon Dragon.  These beings are the Ministers of Creation.  One theory is that they are Seraphim, the highest and most powerful Choir of Angels and one of their titles is "The Messengers".  Which makes sense since "Angel" literally means "Messenger".  At any rate, Angels or lower gods, they work for the one known as the August Personage of Jade.  This one is known to the Abarahamics as Yahweh, Elohim, Jehovah or Allah.  "God" for short.  This implies to me that in the canon and continuity of the World of Darkness, it is the Will of God that Hunters slay monsters.

Or at least it's the Will of God that Hunters have the ability to slay monsters. Whether or not they kill each person should fall in line with the teachings of the Bible, if indeed they serve God. With humans, we don't just kill those humans who are better suited to killing other humans (i.e. people with combat experience, law enforcement experience, martial arts training, etc.). As such, Hunters shouldn't kill vampires just for being vampires. When vampires are clearly murdering people who are just minding their own damn business, however, that's when a Hunter should come after them. They have an intelligence that makes them incapable of being classified as mere animals or beasts, even though they have a "beast" within them, so the Biblical rules of whether or not to kill a human should be deferred to with Kindred, in my opinion.

In Mosaic Law (Old Testament after the Hebrew slaves escaped Egypt), it was a time of war and establishment for the Hebrew people in which they were so few people as a culture that their culture could be wiped out swiftly if they deviated, so many, many, MANY things merited execution that would not later on. So in the Old Testament, I would dare say that vampires being killed on the spot regardless of them being peaceful would've been reasonably in line with the extreme rules at that time.

However, from the New Testament onward, a scumbag in your flock does not merit killing without justification for doing so based upon his or her actions, such as murder, rape, etc. The only other "reach" one could make would be to declare that vampires are demons, but that would be intellectually dishonest since demons are fallen angels and Biblically, these are only shown possessing people and animals, and they generally just act overly aggressive, lacking superhuman qualities. You only ever seem to see/hear that stuff from movies and modern allegations of people claiming to have witnessed demonic possession in which additional supernatural things (beyond the possession itself, such as levitation and so forth) occur. I can't say they're lying since I wasn't there, of course, but I find it odd that in the Bible, where the wildest-sounding and supernatural stuff is described, that demons don't do anything beyond possessing folks to make them act kooky and dickish.

But I digress. Based on the Bible, there is zero reason to believe that vampires - if they existed - are demons, based on the qualities of vampires in the WoD. Therefore, the only Biblical rules one can apply after the writing of the New Testament, would be treating them as you would humans. Things would only be weird as far as stuff like incarceration. For example, do you stake them? Or is that cruel and unusual since they're paralyzed the entire time? But then they live forever, too, in which case any time imprisoned has less meaning that it does to a mortal, so is the punishment really punishment enough? Lots of problems, but just Society-of-Leopolding their asses is some serious bullshit when they're trying to use God as their justification for doing evil (and occasional good when they randomly kill a fiendish vampire).
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 30, 2019, 11:10:41 pm

Hmm, I can't say that I'm too familiar with the WoD "version" of God. If applying our world's Bible, however, I would say that all the rules still apply when it comes to whether or not to kill someone. Self defense, saving the life of another being actively killed (i.e. a frenzying Kindred about to slaughter kine) , unlawful entry into someone's home, or an outright war-style battle, though that would be more Vampire the Dark Ages than modern times, I think. Oh, and of course execution for crimes.

The only difficult one off the top of my head, however, would be whether or not to execute a Kindred who claims he/she killed a human or another Kindred due to frenzying, because it could be difficult to know for certain. If it was purely an accident and the Kindred wasn't negligent in the scenario (i.e. not feeding and whimsically going somewhere that might set off a frenzy like the E.R. of a hospital where people are bleeding from gunshot wounds, etc.), then I would say that he/she shouldn't be put to death for the incident. Heck, any punishment at all might be cruel and unusual.

But that's the tough part...knowing if it was on purpose or not, and finding those other factors out to determine intentional killing or gross negligence.

All true WoD Hunters are "imbued" with their powers by someone.  From what I understand, the beings that imbue them are the Scarlet Queen and the Ebon Dragon.  These beings are the Ministers of Creation.  One theory is that they are Seraphim, the highest and most powerful Choir of Angels and one of their titles is "The Messengers".  Which makes sense since "Angel" literally means "Messenger".  At any rate, Angels or lower gods, they work for the one known as the August Personage of Jade.  This one is known to the Abarahamics as Yahweh, Elohim, Jehovah or Allah.  "God" for short.  This implies to me that in the canon and continuity of the World of Darkness, it is the Will of God that Hunters slay monsters.

Or at least it's the Will of God that Hunters have the ability to slay monsters. Whether or not they kill each person should fall in line with the teachings of the Bible, if indeed they serve God. With humans, we don't just kill those humans who are better suited to killing other humans (i.e. people with combat experience, law enforcement experience, martial arts training, etc.). As such, Hunters shouldn't kill vampires just for being vampires. When vampires are clearly murdering people who are just minding their own damn business, however, that's when a Hunter should come after them. They have an intelligence that makes them incapable of being classified as mere animals or beasts, even though they have a "beast" within them, so the Biblical rules of whether or not to kill a human should be deferred to with Kindred, in my opinion.

In Mosaic Law (Old Testament after the Hebrew slaves escaped Egypt), it was a time of war and establishment for the Hebrew people in which they were so few people as a culture that their culture could be wiped out swiftly if they deviated, so many, many, MANY things merited execution that would not later on. So in the Old Testament, I would dare say that vampires being killed on the spot regardless of them being peaceful would've been reasonably in line with the extreme rules at that time.

However, from the New Testament onward, a scumbag in your flock does not merit killing without justification for doing so based upon his or her actions, such as murder, rape, etc. The only other "reach" one could make would be to declare that vampires are demons, but that would be intellectually dishonest since demons are fallen angels and Biblically, these are only shown possessing people and animals, and they generally just act overly aggressive, lacking superhuman qualities. You only ever seem to see/hear that stuff from movies and modern allegations of people claiming to have witnessed demonic possession in which additional supernatural things (beyond the possession itself, such as levitation and so forth) occur. I can't say they're lying since I wasn't there, of course, but I find it odd that in the Bible, where the wildest-sounding and supernatural stuff is described, that demons don't do anything beyond possessing folks to make them act kooky and dickish.

But I digress. Based on the Bible, there is zero reason to believe that vampires - if they existed - are demons, based on the qualities of vampires in the WoD. Therefore, the only Biblical rules one can apply after the writing of the New Testament, would be treating them as you would humans. Things would only be weird as far as stuff like incarceration. For example, do you stake them? Or is that cruel and unusual since they're paralyzed the entire time? But then they live forever, too, in which case any time imprisoned has less meaning that it does to a mortal, so is the punishment really punishment enough? Lots of problems, but just Society-of-Leopolding their asses is some serious bullshit when they're trying to use God as their justification for doing evil (and occasional good when they randomly kill a fiendish vampire).

Another thing to remember is that not all hunters are Christians or even Jews or Muslims.  Yukie for instance. Though both Yukie and Bach are most likely imbued by the same entities that serve God.  But God certainly expresses himself in different ways in the WoD and the creeds by which he is acknowledged are often contradictory.  In fact in some sects, he is barely acknowledged at all and the focus rather falls upon one of his subordinates, such as the Scarlet Queen in her Gaia or Mother Earth aspect.  WoD God doesn't seem to mind this especially much.

At any rate, regardless of whether or not hunters like Bach are being hypocrites or not, they are the enemies of my characters, and sanctioned by God or not, they mean my character harm, so they will always be on the lunch menu for my characters if their intent is to attack and cannot be reasoned with like Yukie.   
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on July 01, 2019, 02:32:27 am
Another thing to remember is that not all hunters are Christians or even Jews or Muslims.  Yukie for instance. Though both Yukie and Bach are most likely imbued by the same entities that serve God.  But God certainly expresses himself in different ways in the WoD and the creeds by which he is acknowledged are often contradictory.  In fact in some sects, he is barely acknowledged at all and the focus rather falls upon one of his subordinates, such as the Scarlet Queen in her Gaia or Mother Earth aspect.  WoD God doesn't seem to mind this especially much.

Do we even see Yukie use a single power, though? Many hunters aren't imbued. The ones players control in Hunter: The Reckoning are imbued, or become imbued shortly after the start of the campaign. All imbued Hunters get special abilities as far as I know. I haven't read the whole player manual, but it seems like they do all get abilities.

In fact, I would contend that almost no Society of Leopold hunters are imbued! Bach is, sure, but the rest? Nah. Besides, the type of hunter you become (kinda like Kindred clans) is dependent upon your first relevant encounter with the supernature. Therefore, unless the SoL manipulates events to have a supernatural being do something terrible to them, then many people in the SoL witnessing the supernatural for the first time getting slaughtered while trying to flee would become the more sympathetic "Innocents" or "Redeemers" instead of the "Avengers" that the SoL wants.

Quote
At any rate, regardless of whether or not hunters like Bach are being hypocrites or not, they are the enemies of my characters, and sanctioned by God or not, they mean my character harm, so they will always be on the lunch menu for my characters if their intent is to attack and cannot be reasoned with like Yukie.

Heck yeah, I would gladly smite every last member of the SoL just so they stay outta more games in the setting as they're so boring, whilst I do eskimo kisses and play patty cake with Yukie.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkZephyr on July 01, 2019, 03:45:22 am


Do we even see Yukie use a single power, though? Many hunters aren't imbued. The ones players control in Hunter: The Reckoning are imbued, or become imbued shortly after the start of the campaign. All imbued Hunters get special abilities as far as I know. I haven't read the whole player manual, but it seems like they do all get abilities.

In fact, I would contend that almost no Society of Leopold hunters are imbued! Bach is, sure, but the rest? Nah. Besides, the type of hunter you become (kinda like Kindred clans) is dependent upon your first relevant encounter with the supernature. Therefore, unless the SoL manipulates events to have a supernatural being do something terrible to them, then many people in the SoL witnessing the supernatural for the first time getting slaughtered while trying to flee would become the more sympathetic "Innocents" or "Redeemers" instead of the "Avengers" that the SoL wants.

I believe that she's probably the Eastern equivalent of an Imbued One, a Shih, a Demon Hunter.  Her ability to instantly recognize the Fledgling for who he or she actually is, for me, implies this. And just to be clear, the word "Demon" when used by Eastern Hunters encompasses nearly all Supernaturals and not just The Fallen or the Earth Bound.

I don't know if Troika intended every SoL member to be imbued or not.  Probably not. They are pretty weak.

We should keep in mind though that Bach is doubly charged, so to speak.  He has his powers of an Imbued One (I believe his ability to seemingly teleport at will during battle with a Supernatural is clearly evidence of this) he also has the powers of True Faith (displayed by what flashing a crucifix at you during the battle does to you).  Bach is truly a uniquely powerful adversary. It would also explain why he was able to build such a following as the SoL.
Title: Re: Returning Bloodlines 1 Characters Speculation
Post by: DarkProphet on July 01, 2019, 07:45:30 am


Do we even see Yukie use a single power, though? Many hunters aren't imbued. The ones players control in Hunter: The Reckoning are imbued, or become imbued shortly after the start of the campaign. All imbued Hunters get special abilities as far as I know. I haven't read the whole player manual, but it seems like they do all get abilities.

In fact, I would contend that almost no Society of Leopold hunters are imbued! Bach is, sure, but the rest? Nah. Besides, the type of hunter you become (kinda like Kindred clans) is dependent upon your first relevant encounter with the supernature. Therefore, unless the SoL manipulates events to have a supernatural being do something terrible to them, then many people in the SoL witnessing the supernatural for the first time getting slaughtered while trying to flee would become the more sympathetic "Innocents" or "Redeemers" instead of the "Avengers" that the SoL wants.

I believe that she's probably the Eastern equivalent of an Imbued One, a Shih, a Demon Hunter.  Her ability to instantly recognize the Fledgling for who he or she actually is, for me, implies this. And just to be clear, the word "Demon" when used by Eastern Hunters encompasses nearly all Supernaturals and not just The Fallen or the Earth Bound.

I don't know if Troika intended every SoL member to be imbued or not.  Probably not. They are pretty weak.

We should keep in mind though that Bach is doubly charged, so to speak.  He has his powers of an Imbued One (I believe his ability to seemingly teleport at will during battle with a Supernatural is clearly evidence of this) he also has the powers of True Faith (displayed by what flashing a crucifix at you during the battle does to you).  Bach is truly a uniquely powerful adversary. It would also explain why he was able to build such a following as the SoL.

Holy shit, you're right about Yukie. I never looked up "Shih" in the World of Darkness. How interesting! Here's an excerpt from the wiki about them, which shows why she absolutely doesn't attack you just for being a vampire:

"Humanity, for demon hunters, is a measure of everything left in a human soul that can still measure moments of happiness and see them as more than equal time-shares of misery. It's the part of the human being that believes in the quality of mercy, and one that separates the demon hunters from the cold-blooded murderers. Every demon hunter has a conscience, and whether or not they like to admit it. Killing a monster simply for looking different is the best way in the world to lose Humanity, and instinct often warns hunter