Author Topic: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?  (Read 10296 times)

Offline BoxCrayonTales

  • Fledgling
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #270 on: April 01, 2019, 03:49:36 PM »
The powers feel more like Bloodlust Shadowhunter than Vampire Bloodlines. I’m honestly wondering why Paradox chose the World of Darkness IP if they are rendering it barely recognizable. Why not make a new world of darkness?

At this point I’m expecting the clan promotion to involve a magic ritual rather than cannibalism as others are speculating. Based on how vampire cannibalism works in the WoD, I don’t want to be forced to engage in that just to join a clan. Isn’t the premise to maintain humanity, not become a murderous psychopath?

Offline Barabbah

  • Majestic madness maker
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #271 on: April 01, 2019, 06:31:43 PM »
Lol!


I couldn't resist :razz:

Based on how vampire cannibalism works in the WoD, I don’t want to be forced to engage in that just to join a clan. Isn’t the premise to maintain humanity, not become a murderous psychopath?

I think the ingame choice will only set the clan of your sire. Any thin blood technically could be traced back to a clan, bloodline or whatever, it's only a matter if they receive proper teaching
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me

Offline Gurkhal

  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #272 on: April 01, 2019, 06:41:58 PM »
The powers feel more like Bloodlust Shadowhunter than Vampire Bloodlines. I’m honestly wondering why Paradox chose the World of Darkness IP if they are rendering it barely recognizable. Why not make a new world of darkness?

At this point I’m expecting the clan promotion to involve a magic ritual rather than cannibalism as others are speculating. Based on how vampire cannibalism works in the WoD, I don’t want to be forced to engage in that just to join a clan. Isn’t the premise to maintain humanity, not become a murderous psychopath?

Why make a new World of Darkness when we've got this one? For what you need to understand is that the differences that Paradox has introduced is, I would say, moderate in scope and smaller than the ones that White Wolf has introduced across three editions of the Final Nights and the two Dark Age editions. If you would look at how much the VtM setting has changed between the First Edition corebook and the final supplement to the Revisited edition, then you would be able to see that these are fairly moderate changes.

There are lots of premises for VtM, changing with groups and players. If holding on to your humanity was the only or most important they wouldn't have made Roads and Paths playable nor would they expanded on decidedly inhuman player character options. And that was in the White Wolf days.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 07:57:47 PM by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 651
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #273 on: April 02, 2019, 07:43:04 AM »
Lol!


I couldn't resist :razz:

Based on how vampire cannibalism works in the WoD, I don’t want to be forced to engage in that just to join a clan. Isn’t the premise to maintain humanity, not become a murderous psychopath?

I think the ingame choice will only set the clan of your sire. Any thin blood technically could be traced back to a clan, bloodline or whatever, it's only a matter if they receive proper teaching

You're thinking of Caitiff, man. Thin-Bloods, - which the interviews have made it completely clear that that is what we are - are an inferior sort of "sub-vampire." Caitiff need to learn which clan they came from and can then join a clan. Thin-Bloods, on the other hand, don't just get a clan by knowing which one sired them. They're "watered down" vampires on a physical level, as opposed to a mental one.

Offline Barabbah

  • Majestic madness maker
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #274 on: April 02, 2019, 11:32:57 AM »
Based on how vampire cannibalism works in the WoD, I don’t want to be forced to engage in that just to join a clan. Isn’t the premise to maintain humanity, not become a murderous psychopath?
I think the ingame choice will only set the clan of your sire. Any thin blood technically could be traced back to a clan, bloodline or whatever, it's only a matter if they receive proper teaching
You're thinking of Caitiff, man. Thin-Bloods, - which the interviews have made it completely clear that that is what we are - are an inferior sort of "sub-vampire." Caitiff need to learn which clan they came from and can then join a clan. Thin-Bloods, on the other hand, don't just get a clan by knowing which one sired them. They're "watered down" vampires on a physical level, as opposed to a mental one.

Ah damn
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me

Offline IanW

  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Onyx Path Community Manager
    • Onyx Path Publishing
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #275 on: April 03, 2019, 03:28:46 AM »
Caitiff and thin-blooded are similar terms, and some people use them interchangeably, but they're different things.

"Thin bloods" are vampires who have a particular weakness of the blood: the higher your Generation, the weaker the curse, but around 14th Generation it takes a sharp drop. About half of the 14th Generation are thin-bloods, and all 15th and 16th are (albeit even weaker). For example, thin-bloods find it twice as hard to use vitae on Disciplines, can't use vitae at all on blood bonds, and have a certain amount of blood which can only be used for waking up each evening. While "normal" vampires can Embrace nearly instantly, thin-blood Embraces may not wake up for hours.

"Caitiff" has two general definitions: the first are vampires who do not know their own clan identity, or were outcast, so they have no community or clan resources on which to call. They're "clanless," but more for social reasons. For our purposes, we'll just call these "outcasts."

The second definition are the true clanless, those who have no clan identifiers for whatever reason. They have no "clan Disciplines" and no clan weaknesses.

Many thin bloods are outcasts. Not all outcasts are thin-blooded.
All thin bloods are Caitiff. Not all Caitiff are thin-blooded.
Ian A. A. Watson
Onyx Path Community Manager
VTM portal - Tabletop primer

Offline DarkProphet

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 651
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #276 on: April 03, 2019, 06:28:23 AM »
Caitiff and thin-blooded are similar terms, and some people use them interchangeably, but they're different things.

"Thin bloods" are vampires who have a particular weakness of the blood: the higher your Generation, the weaker the curse, but around 14th Generation it takes a sharp drop. About half of the 14th Generation are thin-bloods, and all 15th and 16th are (albeit even weaker). For example, thin-bloods find it twice as hard to use vitae on Disciplines, can't use vitae at all on blood bonds, and have a certain amount of blood which can only be used for waking up each evening. While "normal" vampires can Embrace nearly instantly, thin-blood Embraces may not wake up for hours.

"Caitiff" has two general definitions: the first are vampires who do not know their own clan identity, or were outcast, so they have no community or clan resources on which to call. They're "clanless," but more for social reasons. For our purposes, we'll just call these "outcasts."

The second definition are the true clanless, those who have no clan identifiers for whatever reason. They have no "clan Disciplines" and no clan weaknesses.

Many thin bloods are outcasts. Not all outcasts are thin-blooded.
All thin bloods are Caitiff. Not all Caitiff are thin-blooded.

Nice and simple! XD

Offline Aurelian

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #277 on: April 03, 2019, 10:21:09 PM »
Caitiff and thin-blooded are similar terms, and some people use them interchangeably, but they're different things.

"Thin bloods" are vampires who have a particular weakness of the blood: the higher your Generation, the weaker the curse, but around 14th Generation it takes a sharp drop. About half of the 14th Generation are thin-bloods, and all 15th and 16th are (albeit even weaker). For example, thin-bloods find it twice as hard to use vitae on Disciplines, can't use vitae at all on blood bonds, and have a certain amount of blood which can only be used for waking up each evening. While "normal" vampires can Embrace nearly instantly, thin-blood Embraces may not wake up for hours.

"Caitiff" has two general definitions: the first are vampires who do not know their own clan identity, or were outcast, so they have no community or clan resources on which to call. They're "clanless," but more for social reasons. For our purposes, we'll just call these "outcasts."

The second definition are the true clanless, those who have no clan identifiers for whatever reason. They have no "clan Disciplines" and no clan weaknesses.

Many thin bloods are outcasts. Not all outcasts are thin-blooded.
All thin bloods are Caitiff. Not all Caitiff are thin-blooded.

Quite a good summary.

Offline Nanaloma

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 951
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #278 on: April 05, 2019, 05:10:31 AM »
Lol!


I couldn't resist :razz:

Based on how vampire cannibalism works in the WoD, I don’t want to be forced to engage in that just to join a clan. Isn’t the premise to maintain humanity, not become a murderous psychopath?

I think the ingame choice will only set the clan of your sire. Any thin blood technically could be traced back to a clan, bloodline or whatever, it's only a matter if they receive proper teaching

You're thinking of Caitiff, man. Thin-Bloods, - which the interviews have made it completely clear that that is what we are - are an inferior sort of "sub-vampire." Caitiff need to learn which clan they came from and can then join a clan. Thin-Bloods, on the other hand, don't just get a clan by knowing which one sired them. They're "watered down" vampires on a physical level, as opposed to a mental one.

Any vampire can become a Caitliff - it's simply a vampire who knows nothing of vampire history.  Most Caitlif are thin bloods since they are often abandoned by their sire because they are seen as a threat to the clan.  I imagine many are Gangrels. 

EDIT:  Ah, didn't read to the bottom first; IanW already explained and much better. 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 05:13:00 AM by Nanaloma »

Offline Highwayman667

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 534
  • Fuck The Chantry
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #279 on: April 08, 2019, 07:13:21 AM »
At this point I’m expecting the clan promotion to involve a magic ritual rather than cannibalism as others are speculating. Based on how vampire cannibalism works in the WoD, I don’t want to be forced to engage in that just to join a clan. Isn’t the premise to maintain humanity, not become a murderous psychopath?

I don't know if I even like that idea.

I always enjoyed the idea that vampires were doomed to eventual extinction. As I understand it, a 7th generation vampire can only make 8th generation vampires, and the latter only 9th generation vampires and so forth until there's only the thin bloods, who can't sire.

Maybe the main character is special in some way ? Maybe his circumstance won't be a standard procedure for all other vampires ?

Offline DarkProphet

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 651
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #280 on: April 08, 2019, 07:22:08 AM »
At this point I’m expecting the clan promotion to involve a magic ritual rather than cannibalism as others are speculating. Based on how vampire cannibalism works in the WoD, I don’t want to be forced to engage in that just to join a clan. Isn’t the premise to maintain humanity, not become a murderous psychopath?

I don't know if I even like that idea.

I always enjoyed the idea that vampires were doomed to eventual extinction. As I understand it, a 7th generation vampire can only make 8th generation vampires, and the latter only 9th generation vampires and so forth until there's only the thin bloods, who can't sire.

Maybe the main character is special in some way ? Maybe his circumstance won't be a standard procedure for all other vampires ?

From the sounds of how they were writing the rules and making the game at the same time, something like going from Thin-Blood to a 13th Generation Kindred seems like the sort of thing they would do in keeping with the lore. My only concern is how are we to play a character with high humanity if we diablerize someone? Diablerie without a humanity loss seems pretty...tough for me to envision.

Offline mdqp

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #281 on: April 08, 2019, 09:32:09 AM »
From the sounds of how they were writing the rules and making the game at the same time, something like going from Thin-Blood to a 13th Generation Kindred seems like the sort of thing they would do in keeping with the lore. My only concern is how are we to play a character with high humanity if we diablerize someone? Diablerie without a humanity loss seems pretty...tough for me to envision.

Can you be forced to diablerize someone? Maybe that could skirt around the issue.

Offline Barabbah

  • Majestic madness maker
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #282 on: April 08, 2019, 10:20:27 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't morality in vampire subjective?

For a generic example, pick an antifa and an upper class vampire. A businessman is seen as a immoral crook by the former and a respected member of the community by the latter. So its murder is seen by the antifa vampire as a victory against the oppression and by the upper class an heinous and vile thing.
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me

Offline Highwayman667

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 534
  • Fuck The Chantry
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #283 on: April 10, 2019, 03:00:42 AM »
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't morality in vampire subjective?

I wouldn't say subjective but much more relative in regards to certain areas. Murder being the first one.

Offline DarkProphet

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 651
Re: New Bloodlines Sequel Teased?
« Reply #284 on: April 11, 2019, 04:51:05 AM »
From the sounds of how they were writing the rules and making the game at the same time, something like going from Thin-Blood to a 13th Generation Kindred seems like the sort of thing they would do in keeping with the lore. My only concern is how are we to play a character with high humanity if we diablerize someone? Diablerie without a humanity loss seems pretty...tough for me to envision.

Can you be forced to diablerize someone? Maybe that could skirt around the issue.

Sure. With all the Thin-Bloods, though, you'd think that whomever has you diablerize a 13th Generation Kindred would give a Thin-Blood who wanted to do this that opportunity instead of someone who didn't want to. They could get favors/boons out of a Thin-Blood for such things if the Thin-Blood begged for it, whereas a reluctant one wouldn't owe them much of anything since it was "rapey" (that's the scientific and technical term).

And Barabbah, I suppose you bring up a good point, though...I wonder if the Storyteller would place them at a lower starting Humanity by implying that although such kills might not upset the person doing the killing, Humanity is fairly objective at some point. I'm thinking Humanity 5 or 6, around the point where killing people isn't a big deal unless it's someone you personally care about like a loved one or someone you truly believe in (i.e. a pillar of the community in your mind).