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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 => Bloodlines 2 General discussion => Topic started by: CaptainBoxman on March 22, 2019, 08:14:32 am

Title: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: CaptainBoxman on March 22, 2019, 08:14:32 am
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Psycho-A on March 22, 2019, 09:14:56 am

Hell yeah!  :taunt:
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on March 22, 2019, 10:34:03 pm
I never imagined they'd actually make a sequel to Bloodlines. I am giddy to the nth degree.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: MooCHa on March 22, 2019, 10:36:33 pm
I knew I had a big load. Then realised. I had even more to spare  :rock:

Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Signothorn on March 22, 2019, 10:53:15 pm
I knew I had a big load. Then realised. I had even more to spare  :rock:

Good to see you bro  :clap:
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: MooCHa on March 22, 2019, 10:59:18 pm
Likewise Signo. It has been a while. :taunt:

Not dead yet  :rofl:
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Radical21 on March 22, 2019, 11:40:25 pm
can already preorder it on Steam it turns out
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Zanderat on March 23, 2019, 02:01:32 am
can already preorder it on Steam it turns out
And GOG.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Adrian on March 23, 2019, 04:57:54 am
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Kaldgord on March 24, 2019, 12:29:27 am
i think i screamed.
I mean, damn. Damn.
Bloodlines is my favoriye rpg videogame ever. It has a spcial place in my heart. I do at least one run every year.
Never i wkuldve believed it was going to come back.
Now im curious about the plot, but im sure its not going to have ties with the first and will move in the gehennaless setting of the new vtm edition.
2020 cant come soon enough.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on March 24, 2019, 12:45:04 am
i think i screamed.
I mean, damn. Damn.
Bloodlines is my favoriye rpg videogame ever. It has a spcial place in my heart. I do at least one run every year.
Never i wkuldve believed it was going to come back.
Now im curious about the plot, but im sure its not going to have ties with the first and will move in the gehennaless setting of the new vtm edition.
2020 cant come soon enough.

Sure wished they'd picked a different city then Seattle, though.  I hate that place (I live in eastern WA so our "colonial lords" aren't well respected :) ).  Guess the Prince will HAVE to be a Toreador. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Radical21 on March 24, 2019, 08:00:08 am
i think i screamed.
I mean, damn. Damn.
Bloodlines is my favoriye rpg videogame ever. It has a spcial place in my heart. I do at least one run every year.
Never i wkuldve believed it was going to come back.
Now im curious about the plot, but im sure its not going to have ties with the first and will move in the gehennaless setting of the new vtm edition.
2020 cant come soon enough.

Sure wished they'd picked a different city then Seattle, though.  I hate that place (I live in eastern WA so our "colonial lords" aren't well respected :) ).  Guess the Prince will HAVE to be a Toreador.

The company making the game is Seattle based.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Sabbat_stalker on March 24, 2019, 10:18:47 pm
I am really happy that we have a new entry in the bloodline series!  :cometome:
I hope the game manages to capture the same mood and tone of the original
Not going to lie I am somewhat perturbed by some things said in interviews such as not wanting to "punch down" in a world of darkness game. But with the original writers hopefully, I will be proven wrong.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on March 24, 2019, 10:43:18 pm
I am really happy that we have a new entry in the bloodline series!  :cometome:
I hope the game manages to capture the same mood and tone of the original
Not going to lie I am somewhat perturbed by some things said in interviews such as not wanting to "punch down" in a world of darkness game. But with the original writers hopefully, I will be proven wrong.

Yeah, same here. The first game had some tongue-in-cheek real-world political stuff, but it never hurt the final product...like the "one time I voted Republican" answer to Venus about if you ever did anything awful, and the whole back-and-forth political ads on the radio where the Republican and Democratic candidates' campaigns are accusing each other's candidates of being a pedophile and a hit-and-run driver, etc. Stuff like that was a teensy part of the game.

However, you're right that the interviews seem to make it sound like they're making this game current-real-world-politics-focused, which is disconcerting. For example, this interview states they are "taking some political stances on what we think are right and wrong.": https://www.vg247.com/2019/03/21/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-political-character-creator/

That's pretty damned limiting in an RPG where you're supposed to be able to murder humans, enslave them to your blood, lie, steal, frame, sabotage, etc.

Here's another interview where they say they talk about mental illness representation: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2019/03/vampire_the_masquerade_-_bloodlines_2_takes_a_firm_political_stance_lgbt_and_mental_illness_representation

And when they say "mental illness representation," all I can hear is "we're gonna suck the fun right out of Malkavians because we're stupid enough to think that people actually believe that Malkavians are supposed to be a realistic portrayal of the mentally ill."
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on March 24, 2019, 11:45:27 pm
i think i screamed.
I mean, damn. Damn.
Bloodlines is my favoriye rpg videogame ever. It has a spcial place in my heart. I do at least one run every year.
Never i wkuldve believed it was going to come back.
Now im curious about the plot, but im sure its not going to have ties with the first and will move in the gehennaless setting of the new vtm edition.
2020 cant come soon enough.


The company making the game is Seattle based.


Funny how that works - Troika was more or less LA based. 


Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: thegooddoctorman on March 25, 2019, 01:36:21 am
Guess that means I'd have to be allowed to make a game so we can have a coastal Georgia game, by that logic. :P

Regardless, I'm excited and am trying to save the money for the preorder. Anyone know how long the preorder lasts? I will be busy starting my lawyerly job, hopefully, so I am enjoying more free time while it lasts during law school. In other words, I need to get the preorder ASAP.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on March 25, 2019, 01:39:33 am
Guess that means I'd have to be allowed to make a game so we can have a coastal Georgia game, by that logic. :P

Regardless, I'm excited and am trying to save the money for the preorder. Anyone know how long the preorder lasts? I will be busy starting my lawyerly job, hopefully, so I am enjoying more free time while it lasts during law school. In other words, I need to get the preorder ASAP.

I dunno. Are you getting the super duper $89.99 edition?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: thegooddoctorman on March 25, 2019, 01:51:28 am
Guess that means I'd have to be allowed to make a game so we can have a coastal Georgia game, by that logic. :P

Regardless, I'm excited and am trying to save the money for the preorder. Anyone know how long the preorder lasts? I will be busy starting my lawyerly job, hopefully, so I am enjoying more free time while it lasts during law school. In other words, I need to get the preorder ASAP.

I dunno. Are you getting the super duper $89.99 edition?

What comes in each?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on March 25, 2019, 02:21:09 am
(https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/Diesel%2Fproduct%2Fnemesia%2Fhome%2FEGS_PDX_FRASIER_GALLERY_Edition_Comparison_Chart_FullSize-2080x2600-d6cbc195d043bb028113db529a8068957a9da106.jpg)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on March 25, 2019, 02:40:07 am
I wish it had been called the "Antediluvian Edition." Or "Caine Edition" or something.

Nevertheless, I have to put my money where my mouth is. I've always told people that I literally would have been happy to pay hundreds of dollars up front for the joy that Bloodlines gave me, and if this game doesn't shit the bed, then $89.99 is a miniscule price to pay.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: thegooddoctorman on March 25, 2019, 02:41:08 am
Then I will try for the Unsanctioned Edition at the minimum.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on March 25, 2019, 08:26:23 am
Yeah, same here. The first game had some tongue-in-cheek real-world political stuff, but it never hurt the final product...like the "one time I voted Republican" answer to Venus about if you ever did anything awful, and the whole back-and-forth political ads on the radio where the Republican and Democratic candidates' campaigns are accusing each other's candidates of being a pedophile and a hit-and-run driver, etc. Stuff like that was a teensy part of the game.

However, you're right that the interviews seem to make it sound like they're making this game current-real-world-politics-focused, which is disconcerting. For example, this interview states they are "taking some political stances on what we think are right and wrong.": https://www.vg247.com/2019/03/21/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-political-character-creator/

That's pretty damned limiting in an RPG where you're supposed to be able to murder humans, enslave them to your blood, lie, steal, frame, sabotage, etc.

Here's another interview where they say they talk about mental illness representation: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2019/03/vampire_the_masquerade_-_bloodlines_2_takes_a_firm_political_stance_lgbt_and_mental_illness_representation

And when they say "mental illness representation," all I can hear is "we're gonna suck the fun right out of Malkavians because we're stupid enough to think that people actually believe that Malkavians are supposed to be a realistic portrayal of the mentally ill."

I worry a bit about this stuff as well, although I wonder if this is just a result of how communication has changed into a constant barrage of personal, small details blasted to everyone 24/7. When I first bought VTM:B I didn't know ANYTHING about it, other than it was a Troika Games, and I had liked Arcanum before (and I was at a point in time when I really craved a good RPG). Heck, for most games I don't hear much about this or that even nowadays, and I definitely look up news more now than I did years ago, when I was a kid and I didn't do much research into what I bought. This is also probably a consequence of how games journalists changed over the years, as the answers someone gives during an interview greatly depend on the questions asked, of course.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Sabbat_stalker on March 25, 2019, 12:10:29 pm
You may have a point mdqp, I think I am going to stop actively looking for info on the game and just wait for the game to be released and play it blind with no expectation like I did with bloodline so many years ago. Hopefully, I will be blown away and get to play a manipulative Ventrue who flairs up tensions for his own benefit.

I will leave this video here which explains some of my reservation but more importantly, I think his video is just hilarious and I think this community might enjoy it for the most part.


At the end of the day when it comes to bloodlines 2 and specifically the bullshit going on behind the scenes, I think back to the announcement trailer: "You will come to despise it as much as I do .... but I have waited so long to see it again"
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: chaoticjoy1 on March 25, 2019, 01:52:02 pm
Very exciting, I hope that come close to the greatness of VTMB 1 and allow a lot of modding.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on March 25, 2019, 02:26:51 pm
You may have a point mdqp, I think I am going to stop actively looking for info on the game and just wait for the game to be released and play it blind with no expectation like I did with bloodline so many years ago. Hopefully, I will be blown away and get to play a manipulative Ventrue who flairs up tensions for his own benefit.

I will leave this video here which explains some of my reservation but more importantly, I think his video is just hilarious and I think this community might enjoy it for the most part.


At the end of the day when it comes to bloodlines 2 and specifically the bullshit going on behind the scenes, I think back to the announcement trailer: "You will come to despise it as much as I do .... but I have waited so long to see it again"

Ha-ha, I thought about that video before clicking on it. Underneath his usual "angry" style, you can tell he shares mostly the same fears (which you could boil down to "how far are they going to push these politics in the game, and would they even make sense in the type of game Bloodlines is?"), but he is also still hyped about it (if you are a fan of the previous game, of course you are going to be extremely hyped about Mitsoda being back, the genius behind most of the soundtrack being back, and even some of the ideas they mentioned for the gameplay).

We'll have to see the game in action in one way or the other, since it all boils down to execution, and how pervasive and in your face the game is about its politics and morals, which isn't something you can extrapolate from a little tidbit in an interview. Being respectful to mental illness could mean anything, but if it translates to "we can't have a level like the manor anymore, because that's mean to people with mental issues" or "we can't have a character like Jeanette/Therese" then I am genuinely sad. Those weren't"accurate" portrayal of mental issues, of course (or it's more fair to say that these are not accurate to ALL people with mental issues, which of course they can't be, for obvious reasons), but they were genuinely great moments, at least for me.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: EtaYorius on March 25, 2019, 11:23:49 pm
Anyone knows if the game is Open World or Hubs similar to the first games but with bigger areas? also, i would like to know if there will be a Day/Night Cycle.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on March 26, 2019, 12:02:34 am
Anyone knows if the game is Open World or Hubs similar to the first games but with bigger areas? also, i would like to know if there will be a Day/Night Cycle.

They haven't said yet as to whether it will be hubs or not, though I hope it will, if only because the hubs made for really different locations, each with its own "personality." It they're not hubs, then that will be tougher to pull off.

As for a day/night cycle...ehhhh you do realize that all the work in making the effects for sunlight would be pointless if we start the game with the mass embrace, right? I mean...unless they let us go out in the daylight as thin bloods, but I really, reeeeeally doubt that.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on March 26, 2019, 09:51:09 am
Anyone knows if the game is Open World or Hubs similar to the first games but with bigger areas? also, i would like to know if there will be a Day/Night Cycle.

They haven't said yet as to whether it will be hubs or not, though I hope it will, if only because the hubs made for really different locations, each with its own "personality." It they're not hubs, then that will be tougher to pull off.

As for a day/night cycle...ehhhh you do realize that all the work in making the effects for sunlight would be pointless if we start the game with the mass embrace, right? I mean...unless they let us go out in the daylight as thin bloods, but I really, reeeeeally doubt that.

They actually said no day/night cycle, and yes to hubs (they think open world wouldn't fit, and they also wanted to give as much detail as possible to the various places). They also said all hubs will be bigger and with more stuff to do, compared to the first Bloodlines.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on March 26, 2019, 11:37:18 am
In the game of scarface they made an open world with four main hubs, connected by highways, and there was no level loadings when traveling from one to another and even when entering buildings (the only loadings where in some levels outside miami and when you call your limo to go quickly in other places not yet loaded and stuff like that). That would be cool here too.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Saphrax on March 26, 2019, 01:17:14 pm
You may have a point mdqp, I think I am going to stop actively looking for info on the game and just wait for the game to be released and play it blind with no expectation like I did with bloodline so many years ago. Hopefully, I will be blown away and get to play a manipulative Ventrue who flairs up tensions for his own benefit.

I will leave this video here which explains some of my reservation but more importantly, I think his video is just hilarious and I think this community might enjoy it for the most part.


At the end of the day when it comes to bloodlines 2 and specifically the bullshit going on behind the scenes, I think back to the announcement trailer: "You will come to despise it as much as I do .... but I have waited so long to see it again"

Ha-ha, I thought about that video before clicking on it. Underneath his usual "angry" style, you can tell he shares mostly the same fears (which you could boil down to "how far are they going to push these politics in the game, and would they even make sense in the type of game Bloodlines is?"), but he is also still hyped about it (if you are a fan of the previous game, of course you are going to be extremely hyped about Mitsoda being back, the genius behind most of the soundtrack being back, and even some of the ideas they mentioned for the gameplay).

We'll have to see the game in action in one way or the other, since it all boils down to execution, and how pervasive and in your face the game is about its politics and morals, which isn't something you can extrapolate from a little tidbit in an interview. Being respectful to mental illness could mean anything, but if it translates to "we can't have a level like the manor anymore, because that's mean to people with mental issues" or "we can't have a character like Jeanette/Therese" then I am genuinely sad. Those weren't"accurate" portrayal of mental issues, of course (or it's more fair to say that these are not accurate to ALL people with mental issues, which of course they can't be, for obvious reasons), but they were genuinely great moments, at least for me.

The fact that Chris Avellone and Brian Mitsoda are working on it does get my hopes up. It would be great if there would be multiple choices between factions of kindred, who see the world differently, only one viewpoint (or to be able to choose only one viewpoint) would be a letdown. Still, these comments about mental illness does ring the alarm bell in my mind. I can agree with a bunch of things the Rageaholic rants about, I don't think that VtM should be a safe game.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on March 26, 2019, 02:27:35 pm
In the game of scarface they made an open world with four main hubs, connected by highways, and there was no level loadings when traveling from one to another and even when entering buildings (the only loadings where in some levels outside miami and when you call your limo to go quickly in other places not yet loaded and stuff like that). That would be cool here too.

Weren't the highways just a way to hide the loading times? No idea, since I didn't play the game, just asking (I know a lot of games that hid their loading times in elevators, for example).

Would it fit the game to have a transportation method just to tie the hubs? Maybe, but loading screens aren't all that bad (I mean Bloodlines was full of them, after all XD).
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on March 26, 2019, 05:03:08 pm
You guessed it at the first try: disguising loadings with bottlenecked designed links
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Azrael on March 27, 2019, 07:42:30 pm
Aaaaaaaawwwwww SHIT MOTHAFUCKAZZZZZZZZ WE’RE GETTIN THE BAND BACK TOGETHER NOW!!!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on March 27, 2019, 08:13:44 pm
Aaaaaaaawwwwww SHIT MOTHAFUCKAZZZZZZZZ WE’RE GETTIN THE BAND BACK TOGETHER NOW!!!

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/metalocalypse/images/f/f7/Ep8.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20140106074554)
(I couldn't find a better image of their reunion nor a damn to do better)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Signothorn on March 27, 2019, 08:43:27 pm
Aaaaaaaawwwwww SHIT MOTHAFUCKAZZZZZZZZ WE’RE GETTIN THE BAND BACK TOGETHER NOW!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/pIl5OEl.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/1mWxDvF.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/evo7EEq.jpg)

?

If more come back, we may need a "Old School PV Circlejerk" thread in Off Topic to reminisce.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on March 27, 2019, 09:05:04 pm
Aaaaaaaawwwwww SHIT MOTHAFUCKAZZZZZZZZ WE’RE GETTIN THE BAND BACK TOGETHER NOW!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/pIl5OEl.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/1mWxDvF.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/evo7EEq.jpg)

?

If more come back, we may need a "Old School PV Circlejerk" thread in Off Topic to reminisce.

???
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: MooCHa on March 27, 2019, 09:31:18 pm
Aaaaaaaawwwwww SHIT MOTHAFUCKAZZZZZZZZ WE’RE GETTIN THE BAND BACK TOGETHER NOW!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/pIl5OEl.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/1mWxDvF.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/evo7EEq.jpg)

?

If more come back, we may need a "Old School PV Circlejerk" thread in Off Topic to reminisce.

Offkorn ruined it back then being a Columbo fooker. Cyril has fake moderator status. Good times.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: MooCHa on March 27, 2019, 09:35:29 pm
Beats get caught stealing Ice Tea  :chinscratch:
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Signothorn on March 27, 2019, 09:36:22 pm
Beats get caught stealing Ice Tea  :chinscratch:

Oh SNAPP-LE!  :rofl:
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: MooCHa on March 27, 2019, 09:45:28 pm
Beats get caught stealing Ice Tea  :chinscratch:

Oh SNAPP-LE!  :rofl:

This is what the girl had to explain would be happening whilst being detained

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/wYz6MTJaDgxNK/200w.webp?cid=3640f6095c9bee923974315345729d96)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Signothorn on March 27, 2019, 09:48:38 pm
Sorry, back on topic. Some of these mofos I've known for a while and haven't seen in years, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: MooCHa on March 27, 2019, 09:51:19 pm
^^ I will not be pre ordering the game. I need to see more before I part with cash. Specs, game play. If they already have my money then they don't need to earn it :)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Malkyjeff on March 27, 2019, 10:35:34 pm
Sorry, back on topic. Some of these mofos I've known for a while and haven't seen in years, didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Yup, I'm seeing familiar faces since the other planet vampire site (IGN was it?) coming back here.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Sabbat_stalker on March 28, 2019, 10:45:41 am
Pretty good video to counteract some of the more absurd complaints about vtmb 2


I see gehenna is almost upon us, as the elders of the forum rise from torpor once again to devour the blood of the young.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Vaselinessa on March 28, 2019, 05:06:38 pm
In the game of scarface they made an open world with four main hubs, connected by highways, and there was no level loadings when traveling from one to another and even when entering buildings (the only loadings where in some levels outside miami and when you call your limo to go quickly in other places not yet loaded and stuff like that). That would be cool here too.

Weren't the highways just a way to hide the loading times? No idea, since I didn't play the game, just asking (I know a lot of games that hid their loading times in elevators, for example).

Would it fit the game to have a transportation method just to tie the hubs? Maybe, but loading screens aren't all that bad (I mean Bloodlines was full of them, after all XD).

I agree that Bloodlines' loading screens weren't a problem, and I may prefer them to a transition sequence. The latter could become essentially a loading screen in which I'm obliged to pay attention, which I foresee growing tedious.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Azrael on March 28, 2019, 05:44:35 pm
Beats get caught stealing Ice Tea  :chinscratch:

Oh SNAPP-LE!  :rofl:

You cheeky fuckers.

... It was an Arizona. (It took me a full minute to even get the reference. I WAS SIXTEEN, BOYS.)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on March 28, 2019, 08:21:30 pm
Honestly I wouldn't mind a thread with historical insights on the past of this site :razz:
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on March 29, 2019, 01:13:07 am
Honestly I wouldn't mind a thread with historical insights on the past of this site :razz:

It's kinda like it is now, except with a few more people, and I was nagging a lot to get the area of effect on Blood Boil to work in Ming Xiao's Temple (turns out it counts as friendly fire and friendly fire was off on that map; bless whomever figured out that this was the problem). Oh, and there was a remake of Redemption being made that had me all turned on, but legal stuff or the workload (or both?) nuked that, sadly.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on March 29, 2019, 10:26:26 am
I was more hoping for the nonsense and the funny shit
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: deicide on March 29, 2019, 11:27:30 am
Sorry, but some mofos ain't going back for the reason that I've diablerized them, guess who.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on March 29, 2019, 12:52:49 pm
Tessie, maybe offkorn too? I don't even know other's names :razz:
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: deicide on March 29, 2019, 01:20:10 pm
Tessie? Are you kidding, his soul is worse than of a Malkavian, besides completely useless to me.
I mean that low gen girl from the first forum incarnation with one of the most moronic quotes from Hitler in signature.
Another one you've guessed correctly, I was even mistaken for his new alter-ego once or twice.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Zanderat on March 29, 2019, 05:35:02 pm
Pretty good video to counteract some of the more absurd complaints about vtmb 2


Thanks for sharing that link.  Some common sense finally.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: CaptainBoxman on March 29, 2019, 11:15:01 pm
Well folks, it's absolutely wonderful to see some old names and (imagined) faces around here

How've you guys been doing?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: El_Gostro on April 01, 2019, 07:09:24 pm
A hat or two I owe, and many a dazzling ocular accessory has shielded the leafy pair of veil providers my cephalic containment sports, but a cubical container suit of powerful action worn but perhaps yet never once.
Salutations in order, cheers in excess and sorrow pours at the sight of so many letters that constitute the conceptual residue of dear old comrades!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Awake on April 03, 2019, 11:43:45 pm
I'm honestly so happy about this, I got a notification from GOG w/ the trailer- Let's just hope they don't mess it up.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: tschumann on April 06, 2019, 06:04:38 am
Nice. I was vaguely aware of the dating app thing but wasn't really expecting a new game to be announced.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: deicide on April 06, 2019, 08:23:50 am
Tessie? Are you kidding, his soul is worse than of a Malkavian, besides completely useless to me.
And what's above is the fine illustration why. I would get a nasty case of shattered personality coupled with paranoid schizophrenia. One part of me would hate political bullshit (c), the other would be talking about politics all day long, I would be both gay and homophobic, hold liberal and alt-right views, inject Werewolf into Vampire discussions and waste my time between doing troll mods and attempts to roleplay someone's else forum pokemons. This activity would occupy me so much that I would be useful only as a test subject, not much a buddy even if someone would be interested in talking, because I would be unable to actually get what people were saying, mistaking my own cliches for reality.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 06, 2019, 01:05:19 pm
Nice. I was vaguely aware of the dating app thing but wasn't really expecting a new game to be announced.

A new VtM game seemed very likely due to the dating app, but I never dreamed it would be Bloodlines 2.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 07, 2019, 10:45:37 pm
Unbelievable this forum isn't FLOODED with new members. The game already destroyed pre-order expectations.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Signothorn on April 07, 2019, 10:56:56 pm
Unbelievable this forum isn't FLOODED with new members. The game already destroyed pre-order expectations.

If only we knew forum registration wasn't working 100% of the time...  :vampwink:
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on April 08, 2019, 02:39:20 am
Is that a joke?  If not, why is it not working?  Heck, I probably just missed something obvious and am now looking quite foolish.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 08, 2019, 06:57:24 am
It's true, I had to contact someone at the FB page because it didn't allow me to register.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Signothorn on April 08, 2019, 08:41:40 am
Is that a joke?  If not, why is it not working?  Heck, I probably just missed something obvious and am now looking quite foolish.

We had some problems,but Sam fixed it now. I was helping Highwayman667 register an account on fb, but Sam resolved the unknown issue during the process.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 08, 2019, 09:29:35 am
Unbelievable this forum isn't FLOODED with new members. The game already destroyed pre-order expectations.

Did they release an official statement on this? I am waiting for the game to actually come out before buying it, but I'd be happy to know it's already doing well, it would leave me hopeful for more content down the line as well.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: El_Gostro on April 08, 2019, 09:14:31 pm
Is this really a sequel to bloodlines or are they just capitalizing on the name and turning it into an IP franchise like when "Torment:tides of Numenera" was made?

In the case of it being a genuine sequel, wasn't the story sort of over no matter which path and/or clan your character/play-trough followed?
And how does Seattle relate to LA between the settings (OWOD and 5th edition New/old)?

Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: deletedmember on April 08, 2019, 09:45:23 pm
Has anyone seen these pictures?

https://imgur.com/a/ymgiQXB
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 08, 2019, 10:45:47 pm
I have no idea who are the couple of tits with the woman attached (mine is not sexism but resigned sarcasm). The lady in green can be Tourette? Anyway I bet the tough looking dude is Nines.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: El_Gostro on April 08, 2019, 11:42:51 pm
The birds seem to be rather on the wide side of the spectrum, no?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on April 09, 2019, 05:19:17 am
Is this really a sequel to bloodlines or are they just capitalizing on the name and turning it into an IP franchise like when "Torment:tides of Numenera" was made?

In the case of it being a genuine sequel, wasn't the story sort of over no matter which path and/or clan your character/play-trough followed?
And how does Seattle relate to LA between the settings (OWOD and 5th edition New/old)?

I don't know, of course; only time will tell.  However, providing the "accepted" ending was (what I'll call) the middle finger ending, our hero could have gone anywhere.  I think Seattle relates like BL1 did - the writers are based there.  IMO, if it were to stay a USA city, New Orleans would have been better.  As far as the novels go, I have no idea which group controls Seattle, New Orleans, or any other.  The gehenna novels were some time after BL1 as they reference events in the game in several places so there's at least a little room to squeeze BL2 in between.  Who knows if the gehenna novels are even accepted as part of the WoD anymore as they were written to kill the old world so a new one could be made (which flopped). 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 09, 2019, 06:12:33 am
The birds seem to be rather on the wide side of the spectrum, no?

???

Is this really a sequel to bloodlines or are they just capitalizing on the name and turning it into an IP franchise like when "Torment:tides of Numenera" was made?

In the case of it being a genuine sequel, wasn't the story sort of over no matter which path and/or clan your character/play-trough followed?
And how does Seattle relate to LA between the settings (OWOD and 5th edition New/old)?

I don't know, of course; only time will tell.  However, providing the "accepted" ending was (what I'll call) the middle finger ending, our hero could have gone anywhere.  I think Seattle relates like BL1 did - the writers are based there.  IMO, if it were to stay a USA city, New Orleans would have been better.  As far as the novels go, I have no idea which group controls Seattle, New Orleans, or any other.  The gehenna novels were some time after BL1 as they reference events in the game in several places so there's at least a little room to squeeze BL2 in between.  Who knows if the gehenna novels are even accepted as part of the WoD anymore as they were written to kill the old world so a new one could be made (which flopped).

Well, I bet you can "set" the ending like it was done in a dialogue in KotOR2 (written by Avellone too).

Anyway I think those novels are now non canon especially since
Smiling Jack not only become somewhat of a hippy pacifist (although I'm not sure of that) but he also was killed.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Oscar on April 09, 2019, 07:44:03 am
I have to say this was a huge surprise for me. Not holding my breath, but it might be the time to buy a new pc.. maybe.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Oscar on April 09, 2019, 07:57:36 am
But damn these news really summoned some old ones! :)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: argikt on April 09, 2019, 08:09:54 am
Has anyone seen these pictures?


New carnage to start modding skeletoff !! haha
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: deletedmember on April 09, 2019, 09:11:39 am
The lady in green can be Tourette? Anyway I bet the tough looking dude is Nines.
I don't think so. The lady in green is the one who appears in the trailer. We hear her voice and she doesn't sounds like Tourette at all. She's too old for Voerman.
As I heard she will call the PC on the mobile phone in the start of game and explain some of the subtleties of the new existence - for example, how to drink blood and activate your abilities.
What about Nines - I also don't think it is him. Or, even if it is he, he has become somehow... unattractive.

New carnage to start modding skeletoff !! haha
Hell no :D
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: argikt on April 09, 2019, 10:10:42 am
Just kidding...

First we would know the engine used...
And of course finish our current mods... hehe

(I used another model that you sent me, a modded emo guy) :)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: deletedmember on April 09, 2019, 10:49:02 am
Just kidding...
First we would know the engine used...
And of course finish our current mods... hehe
(I used another model that you sent me, a modded emo guy) :)
The engine is Unreal Engine 4.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: argikt on April 09, 2019, 10:52:23 am
Just kidding...
First we would know the engine used...
And of course finish our current mods... hehe
(I used another model that you sent me, a modded emo guy) :)
The engine is Unreal Engine 4.

I have read it in a lot of places, but... is confirmmed?

As far I know, games that used UE4 paid a royalty, that's the reason because games that want to be AAA and gain a lot of money use a custom engine...
If UE4  is really used, is a good news for modders
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 09, 2019, 12:57:06 pm
In another topic I've asked the same question and someone linked a tweet where they confirmed the engine being Unreal
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 09, 2019, 04:45:52 pm
I don't think so. The lady in green is the one who appears in the trailer. We hear her voice and she doesn't sounds like Tourette at all. She's too old for Voerman.
As I heard she will call the PC on the mobile phone in the start of game and explain some of the subtleties of the new existence - for example, how to drink blood and activate your abilities.
What about Nines - I also don't think it is him. Or, even if it is he, he has become somehow... unattractive.

Ok right I forgot she was in the trailer (lately my mind is really exausted :razz:)
Regarding Nines, maybe the weight of the revolution took its toll.... I'm just trying to identify any known face! You know, with a name like Bloodlines 2 it's implied this must be a sequel LOL
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: deletedmember on April 09, 2019, 05:17:35 pm
Ok right I forgot she was in the trailer (lately my mind is really exausted :razz:)
Regarding Nines, maybe the weight of the revolution took its toll.... I'm just trying to identify any known face! You know, with a name like Bloodlines 2 it's implied this must be a sequel LOL
That's okay. Rarely does someone keep mind in order. :)
Also, about that lady - as I read in reddit:
"apparently when the leaked cgi model was on artstation, the image of the Lady in Green was titled Lillian"
https://www.reddit.com/r/vtmb/comments/bb3e2b/speculation_lady_in_green_real_world_counterpart/
Woman in red was called Lou, and man was called Bob. Indeed it's all not confirmed information.
Name of that curly man from trailer is Dale Talley.

Hmm... some characters from first bloodlines may appear. Except Jack, of course, he's finally dead since 2005. And except Sebastian.
But Voerman, VV, Nosferatu, Max and Anarchs are must be alive.
Ash Rivers could be alive too, because he becomes a Prince of L.A. in a Vampire Prelude mobile game. https://steamcommunity.com/app/2600/discussions/0/1620600279671898514/
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 09, 2019, 06:30:05 pm
Hmm... some characters from first bloodlines may appear. Except Jack, of course, he's finally dead since 2005.

Jack is alive and kicking because since V5 the stupid Gehenna novel is not cannon anymore :)!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 09, 2019, 08:33:46 pm
If I remember correctly in that story Jack became a sort of hippy pacifist, totally happy with his new hobby of gardening
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 10, 2019, 02:58:12 am
Jack is alive and kicking because since V5 the stupid Gehenna novel is not cannon anymore :)!

All we need is Joe DiMaggio now !
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: deicide on April 10, 2019, 03:02:06 am
If UE4  is really used, is a good news for modders
Not so in other respects. Unreal Engine is a fine example of a hindoo code, it's the one of the messiest engines around. It means strange fps dives and also plastic lighting. But yeah, every bleeding-edge effect for top GPUs is there.

Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: MooCHa on April 10, 2019, 07:16:54 pm
But damn these news really summoned some old ones! :)

Tips hat to Umnir :)

Yeah, Might need a GPU me. But any excuse for an Upgrade :)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 12, 2019, 05:24:35 am
I do wonder how many clans will be playing as this time.

It'd be hard to convince me to play anything other than Toreador but I might give it a chance.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: IanW on April 14, 2019, 07:24:29 pm
Jack returned to piracy and was last seen ~2005 in the Anarch/pirate haven of Libertatia in East Africa.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 14, 2019, 08:37:58 pm
I do wonder how many clans will be playing as this time.

It'd be hard to convince me to play anything other than Toreador but I might give it a chance.

Didn't they say 5 clans available at launch and more to come later? The official page shows 5 "coming soon" + 1 bonus in the clans section, at least, and this article (https://www.pcgamer.com/time-to-speculate-about-vampire-the-masqueradebloodlines-2s-clans/) mentions 5 clans as well.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 15, 2019, 02:42:50 am
Just... 6 clans ? They better not be axing Toreadors !
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: VampireBill on April 15, 2019, 01:23:48 pm
Just... 6 clans ? They better not be axing Toreadors !

Toreadors fit way too cleanly with the the West Coast and the idea of sexy vampires in general to not be included. I would suspect Nosferatu has been axed from the starting line-up, they require the most overall different play-style, and pretty much any way it turns out how you can go from a new thin-blood to joining a clan later in the game, Nosferatu would be the hardest, unless you already, you know, looked like a Nosferatu, haha.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 15, 2019, 01:30:44 pm
Just... 6 clans ? They better not be axing Toreadors !

There are images of a different room for each "coming soon" clan.  One seems a rather posh room, and the Ventrues have a different image (theirs is the most obvious) so I am going to take an educated guess, and say they are one of the starting clans.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Azrael on April 15, 2019, 09:44:45 pm
Just... 6 clans ? They better not be axing Toreadors !

*gasps in expensive loafers*
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on April 15, 2019, 10:30:46 pm
From the images, I believe they will be: Toreador, Ventrue, Brujah, Tremere, Nosferatu, with the "bonus" (whatever that is) being Malkavian (judging by the medical (?) diplomas on the wall) which leaves Gangrel. I assume that will be introduced with that werewolf-centric DLC, since it would fit...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 16, 2019, 06:08:49 am
My bets are either on Brujah or Ventrue. What do those two clans have that every other Camarilla clan doesn't have ?

And honestly, I'm kinda flabbergasted about playing the same clans again. I know I'll love it but I was sort of expecting to play as a Tzimisce.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 16, 2019, 08:42:53 am
I assume that will be introduced with that werewolf-centric DLC, since it would fit...

"Werewolf-centric DLC", where is this info coming from? Also Gangrel Protean would probably be hard to do in first person view only gameplay...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on April 16, 2019, 01:18:59 pm
I assume that will be introduced with that werewolf-centric DLC, since it would fit...

"Werewolf-centric DLC", where is this info coming from? Also Gangrel Protean would probably be hard to do in first person view only gameplay...

From the Steam preorder page:

(https://i.imgur.com/brpkcNI.jpg)

Strange beings have ventured into Seattle, and threaten the Masquerade. Expand your Vampire: The Masquerade® - Bloodlines™ 2 story into the Season of the Wolf.

The Season of the Wolf includes
• Two Story Packs which will take you deeper into the underbelly of Seattle and introduce some of the more fantastical denizens from the World of Darkness.
• One major Expansion in which the vampires' greatest enemy enters Seattle.


Personally, I HOPE they manage to find a way to include Gangrel; it would suck to have an incomplete list of Clans...of course, this wouldn't have been a problem at all if not for this 1st person only business... *grumbles in 3rd person*
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: argikt on April 16, 2019, 03:21:37 pm
I'm really dissapointed about the lack of third person...
I don't know if the game is in a later stage of dev, but they should really consider adding this feature...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 16, 2019, 04:01:59 pm
I'm really dissapointed about the lack of third person...
I don't know if the game is in a later stage of dev, but they should really consider adding this feature...

I certainly would appreciate it too, especially given the focus on melee, but I think the best bet might be for a mod to take care of it eventually. Not really a dealbreaker for me, though. I find it funny that the idea of playing a Bloodlines game that isn't a technical mess (hopefully) is almost enough to make me happy on its own. I wonder if we could possibly get a total conversion to port Bloodlines 1 to 2, but we don't really know enough about modding potential right now, even if they mentioned they want to support mods.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 16, 2019, 04:47:50 pm
To argikt:
It isn't yet released but yet the mods are in development XD

To mdqp:
They have confirmed it's the unreal engine, if you're interested this discussion of portings is discussed in another topic
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 16, 2019, 05:35:35 pm
To mdqp:
They have confirmed it's the unreal engine, if you're interested this discussion of portings is discussed in another topic

Thanks for letting me know! I assume it's hard to tell at the moment how feasible it would be, but it's going to be interesting to hear from people who know more about programming and modding than me.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 16, 2019, 06:15:43 pm
I assume it's hard to tell at the moment how feasible it would be, but it's going to be interesting to hear from people who know more about programming and modding than me.

I know little about modding the Unreal 4 engine, but as far as I know it's very different from the Source engine so basically all assets would have to be recreated anew, especially as Seattle won't help you visualize LA. Besides that there is still the legal issue that Activision owns Bloodlines and would need to agree to this...

As for modders to add third person animations, I don't think this would be feasable either unless there is an easy trick like e.g. to use NPC animations for the player models.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 16, 2019, 06:39:34 pm
I know little about modding the Unreal 4 engine, but as far as I know it's very different from the Source engine so basically all assets would have to be recreated anew, especially as Seattle won't help you visualize LA. Besides that there is still the legal issue that Activision owns Bloodlines and would need to agree to this...

As for modders to add third person animations, I don't think this would be feasable either unless there is an easy trick like e.g. to use NPC animations for the player models.

Oh, I assumed that, to avoid legal issues, someone would make an installer that requires to have VtMB installed, and it would then move the relevant files to Bloodlines 2 (that way, you don't package any stuff that legally can't be in the installer). If we are talking about recreating assets from scratch, then that could be more of an issue, ironically.

Yeah, I didn't think 3rd person mode would be easy to mod in, but since this is a rather common engine, and considering the fact that they want to be modder friendly, I am hopeful about the possibility to re-use in-game assets creatively to change that. It might not be possible, though, that's true.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 16, 2019, 07:18:52 pm
Oh, I assumed that, to avoid legal issues, someone would make an installer that requires to have VtMB installed, and it would then move the relevant files to Bloodlines 2 (that way, you don't package any stuff that legally can't be in the installer).

Even if we would be allowed do that, compared to modern Unreal 4 engine games the models of Bloodlines are low-polygon and the textures are low-res, so we wouldn't gain much until all these are recreated as HD versions.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 17, 2019, 03:26:46 am
I'm really dissapointed about the lack of third person...
I don't know if the game is in a later stage of dev, but they should really consider adding this feature...

I agree, I loved switching back and forth. Hell, if Skyrim can do it, why couldn't BL2 ?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on April 17, 2019, 05:41:37 am
I assume that will be introduced with that werewolf-centric DLC, since it would fit...

"Werewolf-centric DLC", where is this info coming from? Also Gangrel Protean would probably be hard to do in first person view only gameplay...

What?  Only shooters do that.  That would be a mistake IMO. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 17, 2019, 09:27:21 am
Even if we would be allowed do that, compared to modern Unreal 4 engine games the models of Bloodlines are low-polygon and the textures are low-res, so we wouldn't gain much until all these are recreated as HD versions.

Yeah, as much as I like VtM:B, it's really old by now (not that it's making my current playthrough any less fun). In theory, there might be a benefit to use the new engine, if mods are supported, but at that point, any effort would be better spent working directly on new content for Bloodlines 2, instead.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: VampireBill on April 17, 2019, 10:20:43 am
If there's *no* third-person, that's going to be a major problem for me. I play most all RPGs in 3rd person that allow it, aside from when the camera is too wonky in enclosed areas. At the least, it will make me play a male character, because I won't be playing "my girl" anymore, it will just be me, ha. Wait... is that what they were talking about the "male power fantasy" of the first game? lol
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 18, 2019, 12:03:10 am
I assume that will be introduced with that werewolf-centric DLC, since it would fit...

"Werewolf-centric DLC", where is this info coming from? Also Gangrel Protean would probably be hard to do in first person view only gameplay...

What?  Only shooters do that.  That would be a mistake IMO.

Have you played Aliens Vs Predator 2? It came out over 18 years ago and is only first person, yet the xenomorphs were incredibly fun for me to play as. Although the AvP reboot game in 2010 had some issues of its own, I also found the xenomorph gameplay to be very fun in that one as well. First person monstrous bestial slashing, etc. is fully doable and I think those games did a good job of that.

Now if someone just plain is against it no matter if it's done "convincingly" or not, that's a whole 'nother matter. To Vampire Bill, I think you'll be alright, though you might have to wait for a couple of months or so for someone to make a mod for third person. They claimed the game would be moddable, and given that a lot of people seem to like Bloodlines' third person perspective, I can't even begin to imagine that you won't get that in this game shortly after release from fans...or possibly even the developers themselves if the game sells well, though that could take some more time (since they'll be working on adding (presumably) Gangrel and Malkavians after release instead of before).
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 18, 2019, 01:55:56 pm
What?  Only shooters do that.  That would be a mistake IMO.

I don't know, even Mortal Kombat nowadays is pretty annoying with it's DLC, and that's a fighting game.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 21, 2019, 06:01:10 pm
Hmm... some characters from first bloodlines may appear. Except Jack, of course, he's finally dead since 2005.

Jack is alive and kicking because since V5 the stupid Gehenna novel is not cannon anymore :)!

This is amazing news, this was the main reason i've stayed away from WOD lore. Is is really un-cannon, that's weird or they can just change their mind at random.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 21, 2019, 06:40:35 pm
Is is really un-cannon, that's weird or they can just change their mind at random.

I think there is a novel or book called Beckett's Jyhad diary in which it is explained that Gehenna never happened and Jack and Beckett are alive err undead. As this is from the new VtM V5 system, it's cannon now!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Signothorn on April 21, 2019, 07:46:07 pm
Is is really un-cannon, that's weird or they can just change their mind at random.

I think there is a novel or book called Beckett's Jyhad diary in which it is explained that Gehenna never happened and Jack and Beckett are alive err undead. As this is from the new VtM V5 system, it's cannon now!

There is, and that reminds me, I need to finally read it! Ian was nice enough to gift me a copy, the least I could do is read it lol. Apparently Christof makes an appearance too.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 21, 2019, 08:03:23 pm
New system.. So the player starts as a thin blood, hmph its a downgrade from Vtmb, could be fun still i guess if they implement diablerie etc... Its interesting how well VTMB aged from the weird side kick of bigger and better RPGs(it was that kind of environment back in the day) to this day getting a sequel.

And I hope there is an option to play blue collar yes man since i really didn't like the bad ending if you sided with LaCroix. I remember i hated Anarchs very much and wanted to join Camarilla. I guess the so called fighting for freedom concept didn't appeal then. strange.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 21, 2019, 09:10:04 pm
New system.. So the player starts as a thin blood, hmph its a downgrade from Vtmb, could be fun still i guess if they implement diablerie etc... Its interesting how well VTMB aged from the weird side kick of bigger and better RPGs(it was that kind of environment back in the day) to this day getting a sequel.

And I hope there is an option to play blue collar yes man since i really didn't like the bad ending if you sided with LaCroix. I remember i hated Anarchs very much and wanted to join Camarilla. I guess the so called fighting for freedom concept didn't appeal then. strange.

There will definitely be Diablerie since we will join a clan at some point later, acquiring their abilities, etc., which is necessitated by Diablerie. I agree that Bloodlines has aged well...as far as everything except the combat. The combat is pretty terrible and was "okay-ish" at best even back in the day. It's still my favorite game, but I don't do nostalgia, so I won't pretend that the combat was good out of sentimentality. I'm not saying you are, but some might go so far.

As for the endings, you could side with the Camarilla and not get destroyed. Side with Maximillian Strauss and you're totally fine! You just have to realize that LaCroix - though not completely evil - is more power-hungry and willing to do anything to acquire that power than any "healthy" Ventrue should be. His priorities should be maintaining the Masquerade and keeping peace among the city's Kindred. However, LaCroix seems wholly focused on how people think of him and is willing to deal with the enemy (Ming-Xiao), call for the execution of a Kindred he knows is innocent (Nines), and feed from an ancient to attain "godhood."

Don't back that jerk. Besides, Strauss dresses like Morpheus. Morpheus was super cool, so you know Strauss is okay to side with. :D
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 21, 2019, 09:19:11 pm
I think there is a novel or book called Beckett's Jyhad diary in which it is explained that Gehenna never happened and Jack and Beckett are alive err undead. As this is from the new VtM V5 system, it's cannon now!

Hmph... smells like retcon to me !
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 21, 2019, 09:34:31 pm
I think there is a novel or book called Beckett's Jyhad diary in which it is explained that Gehenna never happened and Jack and Beckett are alive err undead. As this is from the new VtM V5 system, it's cannon now!

Hmph... smells like retcon to me !

They have to unless they want to rewrite the entire premise of Vampire the Masquerade. The whole idea of Vampire the Masquerade is that everything is coming to a climax of the ancients awakening and these are the "final nights" before that happens. If it happens and gets settled, then the Sabbat cease to exist largely (they exist almost entirely to oppose the Antediluvians), and all you have left are a few squabbles between the Camarilla, the Anarchs, and a few independents getting involved in things.

I mean I would certainly be down for seeing another cool idea come up from White Wolf in a new version of the game that takes place post-Gehenna in which the remaining Kindred are dealing with things and there are new threats, various clans handling things differently due to their elders being destroyed, the Inquisition/Hunters having new information or alliances and new factions, and much more.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 21, 2019, 09:41:02 pm

There will definitely be Diablerie since we will join a clan at some point later, acquiring their abilities, etc., which is necessitated by Diablerie. I agree that Bloodlines has aged well...as far as everything except the combat. The combat is pretty terrible and was "okay-ish" at best even back in the day. It's still my favorite game, but I don't do nostalgia, so I won't pretend that the combat was good out of sentimentality. I'm not saying you are, but some might go so far.

As for the endings, you could side with the Camarilla and not get destroyed. Side with Maximillian Strauss and you're totally fine! You just have to realize that LaCroix - though not completely evil - is more power-hungry and willing to do anything to acquire that power than any "healthy" Ventrue should be. His priorities should be maintaining the Masquerade and keeping peace among the city's Kindred. However, LaCroix seems wholly focused on how people think of him and is willing to deal with the enemy (Ming-Xiao), call for the execution of a Kindred he knows is innocent (Nines), and feed from an ancient to attain "godhood."

Don't back that jerk. Besides, Strauss dresses like Morpheus. Morpheus was super cool, so you know Strauss is okay to side with. :D

Ahh.. that's really nice information. You are right, though the worse thing for me is player character moonwalking like a retard on cutscenes.
Of course i realize it now, when i first played it though Ming Xiao betrayal didn't even register, i was trying to follow what's going on, still its kinda nice to oppose and betray everyone plus everyone is power hungry to some degree and there is some kind of honesty in LaCroix' desperate attitude that suggests perhaps he wants power for something else. Ehm.. Also, another new character? Why not the option to import our character from Vtmb? Those character switches are meaningless. Then we'll play a new one at Vtmb 3? and so on..
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 21, 2019, 10:09:23 pm

There will definitely be Diablerie since we will join a clan at some point later, acquiring their abilities, etc., which is necessitated by Diablerie. I agree that Bloodlines has aged well...as far as everything except the combat. The combat is pretty terrible and was "okay-ish" at best even back in the day. It's still my favorite game, but I don't do nostalgia, so I won't pretend that the combat was good out of sentimentality. I'm not saying you are, but some might go so far.

As for the endings, you could side with the Camarilla and not get destroyed. Side with Maximillian Strauss and you're totally fine! You just have to realize that LaCroix - though not completely evil - is more power-hungry and willing to do anything to acquire that power than any "healthy" Ventrue should be. His priorities should be maintaining the Masquerade and keeping peace among the city's Kindred. However, LaCroix seems wholly focused on how people think of him and is willing to deal with the enemy (Ming-Xiao), call for the execution of a Kindred he knows is innocent (Nines), and feed from an ancient to attain "godhood."

Don't back that jerk. Besides, Strauss dresses like Morpheus. Morpheus was super cool, so you know Strauss is okay to side with. :D

Ahh.. that's really nice information. You are right, though the worse thing for me is player character moonwalking like a retard on cutscenes.
Of course i realize it now, when i first played it though Ming Xiao betrayal didn't even register, i was trying to follow what's going on, still its kinda nice to oppose and betray everyone plus everyone is power hungry to some degree and there is some kind of honesty in LaCroix' desperate attitude that suggests perhaps he wants power for something else. Ehm.. Also, another new character? Why not the option to import our character from Vtmb? Those character switches are meaningless. Then we'll play a new one at Vtmb 3? and so on..

There would be four problems with importing our character from the first game:

1. Only five clans will be available at launch, instead of the seven in Bloodlines 1, so players with the other two clans (I suspect Malkavian and Gangrel, based on Paradox's website's backgrounds for the clans, since they imply certain clans other than those two (ritzy office for Ventrue, decorative posh den for Toreador, tunnels/industrial for Nosferatu, a blood ritual for Tremere, and a trashed bar or some such for Brujah))...won't be able to import their characters into the new game. This is only kinda a problem since this will be resolved with time when they release the other two clans). The other problems are more of an issue, though.


2. The player starts as a Thin-Blood for the storyline of this game. It's of massive importance to the plot, supposedly. A Thin-Blood doesn't have a clan because the blood of Caine is so diluted by the time this character has been embraced that he/she doesn't manifest the abilities of that clan, and sometimes doesn't even suffer the weaknesses. They have no clan curse, and some can even go out in sunlight, eat normal food without vomiting it out later, etc.

3. Finally, the character at the end of Bloodlines 1 will have so much XP that he/she will have a level 5 Discipline and probably have the other two Disciplines at level 3 or 4, and the character's combat attributes and defense will probably be at 9 or 10. While I understand some games take away your abilities, like the Metroid games, etc., not only is that kinda weird and annoying...but more importantly, it is antithetical to the very premise of VtM. In VtM, the longer a Kindred has been around, the more powerful that Kindred becomes. Even though 15 years isn't a super long time, the character would be more powerful in all that time. We would be too powerful for the game, and unless we can Diablerize ancient Kindred left and right, then we wouldn't be able to take our stats past five dots in anything. Stats would be irrelevant.

4. By playing a new character, our allegiances aren't predetermined. The developers want us to be tempted to join each group. If we sided Strauss in VtM, then the Anarchs won't trust us or let us join them because we've proven our loyalty to the Cammies. If we sided with the Anarchs, the same could be said about how the Camarilla would feel about our loyalty to the Anarchs. The Sabbat also probably wouldn't consider inviting us to join its ranks if we killed Andrei (the Tzimisce) and wiped out about a hundred of their kind in service to the aforementioned factions.

Storytellers almost unanimously agree that a Kindred no more than a few months old make the best characters to start the campaign around in their pen and paper games because it gives so much more freedom for them to make up their mind about who to join, to learn about the world in character, and grow their powers, etc.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 21, 2019, 10:38:07 pm

There would be four problems with importing our character from the first game:


Makes sense, especially the 3.
I don't want to think everything we've done in VTMB was just to enjoy a story. If they merge my previous char to the story somehow that would be great. Otherwise what's the difference of playing an RPG from reading a book. Its an industry i understand so what i want doesn't matter as much as what would sell more. Or would it be not named Bloodlines 2 and totally different and unrelated story, that's ok.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 21, 2019, 10:44:58 pm

There would be four problems with importing our character from the first game:


Makes sense, especially the 3.
I don't want to think everything we've done in VTMB was just to enjoy a story. If they merge my previous char to the story somehow that would be great. Otherwise what's the difference of playing an RPG from reading a book. Its an industry i understand so what i want doesn't matter as much as what would sell more. Or would it be not named Bloodlines 2 and totally different and unrelated story, that's ok.

If you can't control your character from Bloodlines 1, it would be pretty annoying (in my opinion) to have that character make an appearance and start making decisions in Bloodlines 2 that you wouldn't have made in control of that character, though...

As for the difference between reading a book and playing an RPG, not getting to play the same character in a sequel does not merit that question being asked. You know as well as I do that you can't indulge in battles you have direct control over (with your character as an avatar, of course) in the game, you don't get to see the faces and motions of the other characters, you don't get the music, you don't get the voice acting, etc. I think you may have fair complaints to make, but the book vs RPG complaint is a losing battle of an argument. =p
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 21, 2019, 11:10:02 pm

the book vs RPG complaint is a losing battle of an argument. =p

Its not like i've put lots of thought into this but i know my RPGs. You just read stuff while reading a book, in RPGs you can change the story, that's the point isn't it? Then at the sequel you are told, "you toiled like a noob and wrongly invested in the story, nothing what you chose effects anything in the world". Then give me the book instead of illusion of choice, should i play RPGs so i could simulate my fantasy? This doesn't make sense to me. I mean its nice when you play the game but a turn off for a sequel even if its the best story ever. See how Dawn of War games died out with the worst design choice ever for the third to constantly switch between characters and factions, it constantly grated on people's nerves. I gave an example from Warhammer because their lore is also kinda distinct and rich like Wod.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 21, 2019, 11:28:26 pm
Are you saying that if Bloodlines 2 doesn't do exactly what you want, you would rather Bloodlines 1 have been a book instead? That's a "ruined my childhood" sort of silly "retroactive" argument. Just because I think the new Star Wars movies suck doesn't mean I think the original trilogy should've just been books I could ignore instead of becoming movies, etc.

How in the world would you play as that character again and have a "game" to play? He/she has to be even more powerful than at the end of the last game, since 15 years have passed, and he/she was already powerful enough to take on a Sabbat leader and a very old Camarilla Sheriff. What are you going to do? Fight Antediluvians solo? Tear Caine's head off with one hand? =/

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Los+Angeles,+California/Seattle,+Washington/data=!4m8!4m7!1m2!1m1!1s0x80c2c75ddc27da13:0xe22fdf6f254608f4!1m2!1m1!1s0x5490102c93e83355:0x102565466944d59a!3e0?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgoI-NmuLhAhWiMX0KHQ7ADn0Q-A8wAHoECAoQCw

Things that happened 1,135 miles away fifteen years ago are reasonable to not expect them to "affect things in the world." The devs already said stuff from Bloodlines 1 will be coming up and relevant here, but you're putting a lot of demands on this game that are impossible to meet based on Bloodlines 1's conclusion.

Or are you saying "Bloodlines 2 shouldn't exist" because you don't play as the same character? I understand feeling attached to your character, but I believe the important reasoning behind why it is "Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2" instead of "Vampire the Masquerade Seattle Boogaloo" because it DOES carry some of the events over from Bloodlines 1, but even MORE importantly, it is to let the public know that this game is intended to be like the first game in terms of the mood, voice acting, music, writing, the premise of the game, etc. There are other reasons as well, but it's reasonable to call it Bloodlines 2 even if you don't play as the same guy/gal.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 21, 2019, 11:43:00 pm
Are you saying that if Bloodlines 2 doesn't do exactly what you want, you would rather Bloodlines 1 have been a book instead?

No. This doesn't make sense. RPG from 15 years ago can't turn into a book. So it doesn't matter what i want, even if i did wanted it, which i don't nor did i say anything of the sort.
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That's a "ruined my childhood" sort of silly "retroactive" argument. Just because I think the new Star Wars movies suck doesn't mean I think the original trilogy should've just been books I could ignore instead of becoming movies, etc. 
Huh? Take a chill pill. Read and think if you want to have discussion otherwise i'll stop replying.

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How in the world would you play as that character again and have a "game" to play? He/she has to be even more powerful than at the end of the last game, since 15 years have passed, and he/she was already powerful enough to take on a Sabbat leader and a very old Camarilla Sheriff. What are you going to do? Fight Antediluvians solo? Tear Caine's head off with one hand? =/
You are kinda right on this, i've already said this though.

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Things that happened 1,135 miles away fifteen years ago are reasonable to not expect them to "affect things in the world." The devs already said stuff from Bloodlines 1 will be coming up and relevant here, but you're putting a lot of demands on this game that are impossible to meet based on Bloodlines 1's conclusion.
This doesn't make much sense. You said he was super powerful so he/she could reasonably effect the world easily even from the other end of the universe if need be. Stuff from bloodlines is very nice, i'm not asking for drastic stuff or anyone to make decisions, just mentions and perhaps more if possible.
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Or are you saying "Bloodlines 2 shouldn't exist" because you don't play as the same character? I understand feeling attached to your character, but I believe the important reasoning behind why it is "Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2" instead of "Vampire the Masquerade Seattle Boogaloo" because it DOES carry some of the events over from Bloodlines 1, but even MORE importantly, it is to let the public know that this game is intended to be like the first game in terms of the mood, voice acting, music, writing, the premise of the game, etc. There are other reasons as well, but it's reasonable to call it Bloodlines 2 even if you don't play as the same guy/gal.
Of course, that's what i agreed before, i don't like to repeat myself. Also let public know my ass. Pay proper respect or you are just on it to make money.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on April 22, 2019, 12:02:40 am
One thing most RPG sequels have is that the hero somehow becomes weak.  The BL1 character was way too strong for such a short time but that's how most work.  This means the hero cannot be at the same level at start and it sounds like their method is to somehow change the hero into a thin blood (how could a thin blood have done all that in LA?) or, more likely, start with a new hero.  If the same character is not carried on, is it really a sequel?  I know that in some games, the hero has changed but that is usually because the company that developed the game went bankrupt and someone else got the rights and, usually, the old fans reject it (like the since renamed Gothic IV).  Sound familiar?  Often new teams come up with a game sold as a sequel for marketing reasons which is in reality a new game.  In addition, there is no White Wolf holding veto power on what is in the game.  All I'm saying is, don't expect a lot of similarity.   It might be a fine game on it's own and I know most people will compare it to BL1 but they really shouldn't.  I think it'll be as much different as BL1 was from Redemption. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 22, 2019, 01:12:40 am
No. This doesn't make sense. RPG from 15 years ago can't turn into a book. So it doesn't matter what i want, even if i did wanted it, which i don't nor did i say anything of the sort.

Which is why I started by asking "Are you..." because I needed clarification on your stance. Also, I did not say that it could turn into a book. I asked you if you would have rather it been a book instead. It's a past tense hypothetical in hopes of gleaning your preferences for clarification.

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Huh? Take a chill pill. Read and think if you want to have discussion otherwise i'll stop replying.

I am reading and thinking. It's why I was asking you for clarification on your previously unclarified remarks. It's also why I presented a hypothetical follow-up for if what I asked you turned out to be your stance, and it was specified as not declaring your opinion but effectively being "boolean" in nature i.e. dependent upon your answer as to whether the follow-up applied or not.

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This doesn't make much sense. You said he was super powerful so he/she could reasonably effect the world easily even from the other end of the universe if need be. Stuff from bloodlines is very nice, i'm not asking for drastic stuff or anyone to make decisions, just mentions and perhaps more if possible.

If the character is so influential and effective in the world, the Bloodlines 1 protagonist would likely meet his/her final death at the hands of a bunch of back-stabbing Kindred worried about his/her power. Unless the protagonist becomes a Prince, Primogen, Sheriff, or very prominent Anarch Baron, etc., the protagonist would end up the target of many. Although, by him/herself, sure, the protagonist as a super badass, but if Kindred want you dead and actually take the time to formulate a good plan, you're toast. For example, figure out where your haven is, then send an e-mail to the Second Inquisition to let them know.  By the next sunrise, a dozen flak jacket-armored federal employees, contractors, or Hunters bust down your door and drag you out into the sun or slice your head off. Of course, you're in torpor during the day, so you can't react. It's a coward's killing, but it is what it is.

But hey, maybe they'll go the Prince/Primogen/Sheriff/Baron route? I'm not sure how, though. In Knights of the Old Republic 2, for example, I seem to recall getting to answer some questions that let you basically decide things about the protagonist of KotOR 1, such as "Well, from what I heard about <name>, he/she blah blah blah." However, that wouldn't make sense in Bloodlines 2 because a freshly embraced Kindred wouldn't be able to claim to have heard rumors to allow you to effectively meta-game to dictate "who" the first game's protagonist was.

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Of course, that's what i agreed before, i don't like to repeat myself. Also let public know my ass. Pay proper respect or you are just on it to make money.

There would be no reason for an entire studio of people to make the game if they weren't going to get paid. People should be paid for their work. It takes too much time for them to do this in such a short timespan for them to not get paid for it. I'm not claiming that you think they should do it for free, but it must be made clear that even if they called it something completely different, they're still "on it to make money."

Could they call it something else? Sure! However, the lead writer of the first game is writing it, it takes place later in time after the first game, events from the first game will come up again, and characters from the first game will return. It's also being made in the same style as the first game, as opposed to something like VtM Redemption, or something entirely different. Why in the world wouldn't you call it Bloodlines 2?


Quote from: Nanaloma
"If the same character is not carried on, is it really a sequel?...I think it'll be as much different as BL1 was from Redemption."

The Lord of the Rings would qualify as a sequel to The Hobbit, even if Bilbo never made an appearance, so yes, yes it is. And why would you ever think it would be as different as Bloodlines 1 and Redemption were, compared to one another? The interviews and the cinematic trailer for Bloodlines 2 all point to a premise of "this is supposed to feel just like Bloodlines but in Seattle and with better combat."
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 22, 2019, 08:17:41 am
Before this escalates here, I think the main problem is that they actually called it "Bloodlines 2" and not something else. This was of course done to increase the market recognition and to imply that this game will be very similar in atmosphere and gameplay to the classic! Any other name would have worked too in my opinion, but they wanted to be on the save side. Which on the other hand raises high expectations! It never had anything to do with this being a direct sequel with the same character as there are 15 years, a huge distance and different endings between the two games. And "Bloodlines" itself has no connection to the character, compared to the "Redemption" that Christof seeks in the first game. "Bloodlines" could just mean we see some of those like in the first game...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 22, 2019, 09:47:05 am

If the character is so influential and effective in the world, the Bloodlines 1 protagonist would likely meet his/her final death at the hands of a bunch of back-stabbing Kindred worried about his/her power. 
Perhaps, there are possibilities.
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But hey, maybe they'll go the Prince/Primogen/Sheriff/Baron route?
This is great, exactly what i'm asking for, i hope they do it or similarly awesome.
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I'm not sure how, though. In Knights of the Old Republic 2, for example, I seem to recall getting to answer some questions that let you basically decide things about the protagonist of KotOR 1, such as "Well, from what I heard about <name>, he/she blah blah blah." However, that wouldn't make sense in Bloodlines 2 because a freshly embraced Kindred wouldn't be able to claim to have heard rumors to allow you to effectively meta-game to dictate "who" the first game's protagonist was.
Anything could make sense in an RPG setting, there are examples. Perhaps it wouldn't be cost efficient, that's another story.
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There would be no reason for an entire studio of people to make the game if they weren't going to get paid. People should be paid for their work. It takes too much time for them to do this in such a short timespan for them to not get paid for it. I'm not claiming that you think they should do it for free, but it must be made clear that even if they called it something completely different, they're still "on it to make money."
I think the more they do it for fun, themselves, the better the game is. Strangleholding & strongarming players doesn't seem to work well for single players RPGs anymore even with publishers with infinite power like EA. Vampyr could just carefully improve and balance constant spawns and voila, nooo they couldn't care less about player experience or i don't know they act like it. On the other hand paradox has nice track record. The studio is the wildcard.

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Could they call it something else? Sure! However, the lead writer of the first game is writing it, it takes place later in time after the first game, events from the first game will come up again, and characters from the first game will return. It's also being made in the same style as the first game, as opposed to something like VtM Redemption, or something entirely different. Why in the world wouldn't you call it Bloodlines 2?

I appreciate this, and i appreciate his gloves :). Still... this isn't a JRPG, have some care of what you name what before you go full on weird. Sure if its meant to be more of a tabletop adventure style with different unrelated stories, fine. Its somewhat more acceptable since its been 15 years.

Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 22, 2019, 09:50:52 am
Before this escalates here
Sorry for hijacking.

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"Redemption" that Christof seeks in the first game. "Bloodlines" could just mean we see some of those like in the first game...
Redemption was a difficult RPG to trudge but Christof waking up in London and the sanctuary immersion was awesome.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on April 22, 2019, 10:08:36 am
Before this escalates here, I think the main problem is that they actually called it "Bloodlines 2" and not something else. This was of course done to increase the market recognition and to imply that this game will be very similar in atmosphere and gameplay to the classic! Any other name would have worked too in my opinion, but they wanted to be on the save side.

I don't see this as a problem, nor is it unprecedented. Take for example the Fallout and Elder Scrolls series; you have Fallout 1, 2, 3,4 and Elder Scrolls I to V (among others). With the exception of Fallout 1 and 2, none of the sequels are a direct continuation of events in the previous game; the protagonists are also different and previous protagonists don't show up again except, occasionally, as very subtle references (like a quest in Skyrim hinting that Oblivion's protagonist has become an inter-dimensional deity).  The lore of course grows with each game in the series, there are references to past events and recurring characters, but each game is pretty self-contained. I am completely OK with Bloodlines 2 following the same pattern.

In fact, I don't see how they could possibly include the Bloodlines 1 protagonist outside a vague reference or easter egg, since the game has several endings and they don't survive in all of them. It would mean making one of them officially canon. Likewise, while it's cool to imagine our characters have gone on to become Primogen or other high ranking vampires, I'd rather not have the game decide that for all of mine; I prefer the freedom to imagine different paths for them, even if they mean obscurity or even Final Death.

That's my take on it anyway.

Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 22, 2019, 09:25:54 pm
In fact, I don't see how they could possibly include the Bloodlines 1 protagonist outside a vague reference or easter egg, since the game has several endings and they don't survive in all of them. It would mean making one of them officially canon. Likewise, while it's cool to imagine our characters have gone on to become Primogen or other high ranking vampires, I'd rather not have the game decide that for all of mine; I prefer the freedom to imagine different paths for them, even if they mean obscurity or even Final Death.

That's my take on it anyway.

Avellone had the same dilemma on KotOR 2 and his solution to let the player make the recap of the endings in the previous game through dialogue choices was pure genius. It will be really difficult he won't found a similar cunning approach (if they want and/or need to add the protagonist of the first game).
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Azrael on April 22, 2019, 09:44:25 pm

If you can't control your character from Bloodlines 1, it would be pretty annoying (in my opinion) to have that character make an appearance and start making decisions in Bloodlines 2 that you wouldn't have made in control of that character, though...


Fucking Dragon Age: Inquisition.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 22, 2019, 09:57:25 pm

If you can't control your character from Bloodlines 1, it would be pretty annoying (in my opinion) to have that character make an appearance and start making decisions in Bloodlines 2 that you wouldn't have made in control of that character, though...


Fucking Dragon Age: Inquisition.

That actually happened?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Azrael on April 22, 2019, 10:28:16 pm

If you can't control your character from Bloodlines 1, it would be pretty annoying (in my opinion) to have that character make an appearance and start making decisions in Bloodlines 2 that you wouldn't have made in control of that character, though...


Fucking Dragon Age: Inquisition.

That actually happened?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

SPOILERS FOR DA:I BELOW IF ANYONE GIVES A SHIT:

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Yes Hawke shows up in the second act. Instead of a KOTOR2 style dialogue check on the events of DA2, you get this 'tapestry' thing on the DA:I website where you can pick all the decisions you made in DA:0 DA2 and all the DLCs, so he LOOKS like your DA2 character, but he's useless, you have no option to control him (not a party member just a tagalong NPC in a couple quests) and then you have to decide whether or not to let him DIE IN THE FADE because REASONS later on.

I killed him. He was hogging my new character's spotlight.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 23, 2019, 01:37:52 am
I agree with pretty much everything else that's been said here since my last post. And yeah, marex, nice JRPG remark. While I can abide by something like the Tales series (Tales of Berseria, Tales of Symphonia, etc.) all being obviously games in a series that generally aren't connected, the Final Fantasy series' numbering system is just silly. When you have to say FFX-2 and FFXIII-2, etc., that's absurd. Not only that, but like 90% or so of the FF games take place in entirely different universes or at least planets that never connect except via noncanonical fighting games and other madness.

Also, yes, when you reach the modern nights in Redemption, it is amaaaazing. <3  I really wish that instead of the way that game turned out, they had taken the same story and EITHER gone full-on "Diablo" (hacker/slasher combat and loot done well), OR go fully mid/late-90s western RPG to ditch the random loot, cut the number of Cainites you encounter down to like 30%, restrict the player's Disciplines to that of Brujah and clans Christof reasonably would have learned from, and have the combat be more about using the right abilities for the job, solving quests, dialog options, etc.

I would love either of those two games. Instead, we got an amazing story in a mega-flawed game that is hindered by its middling spot in between each of the two sort of genres.

Azrael, I was specifically thinking of Dragon Age Inquisition when I typed what you responded to. XD  The Hawke thing was unforgivable in my opinion. I quit the game shortly thereafter and that wasn't even why. It was just part of the icing on the cake of what turned me off in that game.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 23, 2019, 02:48:02 am
Yes Hawke shows up in the second act. Instead of a KOTOR2 style dialogue check on the events of DA2, you get this 'tapestry' thing on the DA:I website where you can pick all the decisions you made in DA:0 DA2 and all the DLCs, so he LOOKS like your DA2 character, but he's useless, you have no option to control him (not a party member just a tagalong NPC in a couple quests) and then you have to decide whether or not to let him DIE IN THE FADE because REASONS later on.

I killed him. He was hogging my new character's spotlight.

Videogamers = The Biggest Divas.

Hawke doesn't make decisions on his/her own nor does he/she start doing things that you wouldn't do otherwise because the character itselft has a centralized plotline: He/She is investigating the dissapearence of an important faction in the world where the story develops, which is pretty much what EVERY Hawke would do. In fact, depending on how your tapestry is made, he/she will ACTUALLY act and respond with the personality you played him/her the most in Dragon Age 2. It's pretty damn wonderful.

Of course, some people actually believe that for some strange and bizarre reason they should have ABSOLUTELY RIGID CONTROL OF EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN PART of a character they played as before, without understanding that perhaps a little sacrifice on the editorial aspect might actually make for a better story, which it actually did in Dragon Age: Inquisition since Hawke's presence leads to one of the most important decisions in the game.

"BUTTFUCKNO !!! I WAS HAWKE BEFORE SO JIHKJKYUHKYUYHUIJLOIHJUIYHUI"

Maker's breath...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Barabbah on April 23, 2019, 03:51:18 am
An even worse situation: KotOR. For that abomination of the mmorpg any of your previous action and decision was deliberately resetted to a canonical chronology to better suit that sad excuse of a plot of this mmorpg. The biggest FUCK YOU ever made on a videogame (as an unrelated fact, guess who produced both...).
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 23, 2019, 05:45:45 am
An even worse situation: KotOR. For that abomination of the mmorpg any of your previous action and decision was deliberately resetted to a canonical chronology to better suit that sad excuse of a plot of this mmorpg. The biggest FUCK YOU ever made on a videogame (as an unrelated fact, guess who produced both...).

Fortunately I don't give a damn about TOR, and cherish KotOR. Besides, even if I ever play TOR more than a handful of hours again, I'm pretty sure you have to buy DLC just to play through that stuff. They're crazy if they think I'm going to give them money to ruin the beauty that is redeemed Revan. I often forget TOR exists, thankfully.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 23, 2019, 07:16:06 am

If you can't control your character from Bloodlines 1, it would be pretty annoying (in my opinion) to have that character make an appearance and start making decisions in Bloodlines 2 that you wouldn't have made in control of that character, though...


Fucking Dragon Age: Inquisition.

Interesting reading https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964
First setting of DAI was the best, after that it was meh. Bioware's writing has gone abysmally bad since then, you can't justify it with "because they are crafted with younger players in mind". I suspect they hired a 10 year old girl to write stories and dialogues ever since Andromeda or i'm getting too old i can't just stand pretentiousness in RPGs anymore.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on April 24, 2019, 12:18:31 am
Before this escalates here, I think the main problem is that they actually called it "Bloodlines 2" and not something else. This was of course done to increase the market recognition and to imply that this game will be very similar in atmosphere and gameplay to the classic! Any other name would have worked too in my opinion, but they wanted to be on the save side. Which on the other hand raises high expectations! It never had anything to do with this being a direct sequel with the same character as there are 15 years, a huge distance and different endings between the two games. And "Bloodlines" itself has no connection to the character, compared to the "Redemption" that Christof seeks in the first game. "Bloodlines" could just mean we see some of those like in the first game...

Basically what I said but clearer.  I of course, agree. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on April 24, 2019, 12:31:06 am
Before this escalates here, I think the main problem is that they actually called it "Bloodlines 2" and not something else. This was of course done to increase the market recognition and to imply that this game will be very similar in atmosphere and gameplay to the classic! Any other name would have worked too in my opinion, but they wanted to be on the save side.

I don't see this as a problem, nor is it unprecedented. Take for example the Fallout and Elder Scrolls series; you have Fallout 1, 2, 3,4 and Elder Scrolls I to V (among others). With the exception of Fallout 1 and 2, none of the sequels are a direct continuation of events in the previous game; the protagonists are also different and previous protagonists don't show up again except, occasionally, as very subtle references (like a quest in Skyrim hinting that Oblivion's protagonist has become an inter-dimensional deity).  The lore of course grows with each game in the series, there are references to past events and recurring characters, but each game is pretty self-contained. I am completely OK with Bloodlines 2 following the same pattern.

In fact, I don't see how they could possibly include the Bloodlines 1 protagonist outside a vague reference or easter egg, since the game has several endings and they don't survive in all of them. It would mean making one of them officially canon. Likewise, while it's cool to imagine our characters have gone on to become Primogen or other high ranking vampires, I'd rather not have the game decide that for all of mine; I prefer the freedom to imagine different paths for them, even if they mean obscurity or even Final Death.

That's my take on it anyway.

Risen series did it in a (IMO) cool way - about 3/4 of the way through III, one can find the old hero (who was very close to a major NCO named Patty) camped and have a conversation where he questions the new hero's relationship to her (new hero is her brother).  The story line is unbroken, however.  It would be difficult, but not impossible to tie the two together (in BL2) and make it into a real sequel.  I don't see how that can be done with BL2's story completely personalized to the old hero.   There realy wasn't any grand, continuing story in BL1 - it was ended.  Perhaps there's room for a prequel to the sequel to explain the sequel in the future (ain't that contorted?  :)  ). 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 24, 2019, 12:39:56 am
Bioware's writing has gone abysmally bad since then, you can't justify it with "because they are crafted with younger players in mind".

Interesting. I imagine your latest book was a bestseller of course ?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 24, 2019, 06:24:51 am
Bioware's writing has gone abysmally bad since then, you can't justify it with "because they are crafted with younger players in mind".

Interesting. I imagine your latest book was a bestseller of course ?

Of course. There is something wrong with its dialogues, i don't ever remember any other RPG where i cringed so much for no reason. I suspect its because of sub par writing injected with political bs to make it nice.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 24, 2019, 08:03:58 am
Bioware's writing has gone abysmally bad since then, you can't justify it with "because they are crafted with younger players in mind".

Interesting. I imagine your latest book was a bestseller of course ?

Of course. There is something wrong with its dialogues, i don't ever remember any other RPG where i cringed so much for no reason. I suspect its because of sub par writing injected with political bs to make it nice.

Yeah, more and more devs seem to feel it is their responsibility to dispense social justice to us in our games.

You know, because we all play games for more exposure to real world politics instead of an escape from the real world or as a means of entertainment/"having fun." /sarcasm
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 25, 2019, 06:53:36 am
Of course. There is something wrong with its dialogues, i don't ever remember any other RPG where i cringed so much for no reason. I suspect its because of sub par writing injected with political bs to make it nice.

No writing experience then. Nice.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 25, 2019, 07:13:20 am
No writing experience then. Nice.

I think it's insane to suggest that criticism of books and writing can only come from writers. Most people can tell a good story from a bad one, because humans tell story to each other all the time, and are exposed to narrative on a daily basis (even those who run away screaming in fear at the mention of books).

People with bad taste still exist, of course, but you don't need a doctorate to recognize good/bad writing.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 25, 2019, 05:34:48 pm
Of course. There is something wrong with its dialogues, i don't ever remember any other RPG where i cringed so much for no reason. I suspect its because of sub par writing injected with political bs to make it nice.

No writing experience then. Nice.

Yes, I have writing experience although its small. Actually currently i'm writing an amateur novel. No, i don't have any published books.

and believe me its hard work, even if you do it as a joke.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 26, 2019, 01:42:54 am
I think it's insane to suggest that criticism of books and writing can only come from writers. Most people can tell a good story from a bad one, because humans tell story to each other all the time, and are exposed to narrative on a daily basis (even those who run away screaming in fear at the mention of books).

People with bad taste still exist, of course, but you don't need a doctorate to recognize good/bad writing.

I never said non-writers didn't have a right to criticize, I myself am an amateur and wouldn't rank myself as a professional at this moment and I do have my own issues with videogame writing these days.

However, I always make sure not to be destructive about other people's hard work and effort, which is something that people in the videogame community do more often than not. It must deffinitely be quite the annoyance to spend hundreds of hours writing and polishing and editing story to then have some asshole in front of his computer writing "I HATE YOUR SJW BS. YUR WRITIN SUX"

Bioware is a goddamn paragon of the videogame industry. Most of the people in the CRPG community had their childhoods and adolescent years FORGED by Bioware videogames. So excuse me if I find it a tad annoying when they disparage a good game like Dragon Age: Inquisition, as if they had spent ANY time on a single page of a screenplay in their lives.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on April 26, 2019, 02:56:43 am
I think it's insane to suggest that criticism of books and writing can only come from writers. Most people can tell a good story from a bad one, because humans tell story to each other all the time, and are exposed to narrative on a daily basis (even those who run away screaming in fear at the mention of books).

People with bad taste still exist, of course, but you don't need a doctorate to recognize good/bad writing.

I never said non-writers didn't have a right to criticize, I myself am an amateur and wouldn't rank myself as a professional at this moment and I do have my own issues with videogame writing these days.

However, I always make sure not to be destructive about other people's hard work and effort, which is something that people in the videogame community do more often than not. It must deffinitely be quite the annoyance to spend hundreds of hours writing and polishing and editing story to then have some asshole in front of his computer writing "I HATE YOUR SJW BS. YUR WRITIN SUX"

Bioware is a goddamn paragon of the videogame industry. Most of the people in the CRPG community had their childhoods and adolescent years FORGED by Bioware videogames. So excuse me if I find it a tad annoying when they disparage a good game like Dragon Age: Inquisition, as if they had spent ANY time on a single page of a screenplay in their lives.

Do you legitimately believe that Bioware did the best they could with the writing in Dragon Age Inquisition and ME: Andromeda, though? Really? I mean obviously it's all opinions, but those games - especially ME: Andromeda - were markedly inferior to past stories. KotOR has one of the best plot twists I've ever seen anywhere, movies and television included.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 26, 2019, 07:13:57 am
I never said non-writers didn't have a right to criticize, I myself am an amateur and wouldn't rank myself as a professional at this moment and I do have my own issues with videogame writing these days.

However, I always make sure not to be destructive about other people's hard work and effort, which is something that people in the videogame community do more often than not. It must deffinitely be quite the annoyance to spend hundreds of hours writing and polishing and editing story to then have some asshole in front of his computer writing "I HATE YOUR SJW BS. YUR WRITIN SUX"

Bioware is a goddamn paragon of the videogame industry. Most of the people in the CRPG community had their childhoods and adolescent years FORGED by Bioware videogames. So excuse me if I find it a tad annoying when they disparage a good game like Dragon Age: Inquisition, as if they had spent ANY time on a single page of a screenplay in their lives.

Well, I get being annoyed when criticism devolves into a couple of angry lines, but that's not how your message came across to me. Also, even if assuming someone's criticism is 100% stupid, uncalled for deliberately mean and what have you, asking them if they ever wrote a bestseller hardly elevates the conversation.

I think it's been years since Bioware wrote anything remotely decent. In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6. I could talk for hours about how the writing devolved (but I'd have to play ME 3 again, which isn't going to happen).

DA 2 was more of the same, the writing was so damn stiff (and the gameplay so bad) I couldn't bear to finish it. I only tried Andromeda from Bioware since those games, and I instantly regretted it. We are talking mediocre MMORPG kind of writing for Andromeda, good voice acting isn't enough to make the dialogue bearable. The combat might be considered an improvement, but I think the design of the encounters got worse, so in the end it devolved into busy work.

I love several of their older games, though. KOTOR has a special place in my heart (as someone who isn't a big fan of Star Wars, I fucking love KOTOR anyway), I really like BG 1 & 2 and Jade Empire. ME 1 is great, and I really enjoyed DA 1 (even if it had a few limits).
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 26, 2019, 08:01:35 am
In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6.

Speaking of ME, I only played the first one and was pretty annoyed that it felt like a bad copy of "Babylon 5" at the time, only nobody seemed to notice. And then they messed up the ending in ME3 very badly from what I read, while in B5 it actually all made sense in the end! So maybe the ME1 writing benefited from them copying from B5 and once they deviated it went bad. See Deep Space 9 ;)!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 26, 2019, 08:23:44 am
Speaking of ME, I only played the first one and was pretty annoyed that it felt like a bad copy of "Babylon 5" at the time, only nobody seemed to notice. And then they messed up the ending in ME3 very badly from what I read, while in B5 it actually all made sense in the end! So maybe the ME1 writing benefited from them copying from B5 and once they deviated it went bad. See Deep Space 9 ;)!

It's hard to figure out exactly why/how something went wrong in the writing (it's not like I worked at Bioware), but I think they didn't plan far ahead enough, and couldn't figure out a good solution in the allotted time. ME3 also got its original ending leaked, if I remember correctly, so they re-wrote it on top of all that.

I didn't watch B5 completely (I think so far I only ever watched the first season, and then a few weak episodes made me stop watching for a while, if I remember correctly), so I can't comment on the similarities either, but as far as I am concerned, I generally appreciate more how a story is constructed and told, rather than its originality. ME 1 has a proper build up to the events, it knows when to play on emotions and when to be more rational, it has good characters and the premises work fine (humans as the new kids in the block, the threat of creatures that have been wiping out species for eons, a race who had managed to warn "the future" in some fashion). It's not going to win Oscars/Golden Globes, but I find it to be pretty solid, with the moment to moment scenes having the required impact.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 26, 2019, 10:22:51 am
It's hard to figure out exactly why/how something went wrong in the writing (it's not like I worked at Bioware), but I think they didn't plan far ahead enough, and couldn't figure out a good solution in the allotted time.

This might be a problem, because...

Quote
(humans as the new kids in the block, the threat of creatures that have been wiping out species for eons, a race who had managed to warn "the future" in some fashion).

... this is the main premise of B5 too, only the creator JMS planned the ending so much ahead, it actually hides itself in the show title :)!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Azrael on April 26, 2019, 09:51:15 pm

*talking about a video game*


*a whole bunch of shit*


Deep breaths, bud.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 27, 2019, 01:11:07 am
a few weak episodes made me stop watching
The episode(s) where the "Elven ambassador" gets tortured by the inquisitor. And the ugly Centauri dude going benevolent around season 4 if i remember correctly. Stargate Universe should have had 10 seasons instead of Bablyon with its imaginative environments. Everyone else seems to hate that series, why i'll never understand..
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on April 27, 2019, 03:05:55 am
I liked it and watched whenever I could (which, unfortunately, was rare).
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 27, 2019, 05:00:44 am
Do you legitimately believe that Bioware did the best they could with the writing in Dragon Age Inquisition and ME: Andromeda, though? Really? I mean obviously it's all opinions, but those games - especially ME: Andromeda - were markedly inferior to past stories. KotOR has one of the best plot twists I've ever seen anywhere, movies and television included.

I don't dissagree with this comment, I think reasonable criticisms can be made of Bioware's latest, no doubt about that.

It's an entirely different ball game to utterly disparage other people's work however.

Well, I get being annoyed when criticism devolves into a couple of angry lines, but that's not how your message came across to me. Also, even if assuming someone's criticism is 100% stupid, uncalled for deliberately mean and what have you, asking them if they ever wrote a bestseller hardly elevates the conversation.

It certainly puts things into perspective. I've tasted shitty sushi, but I wouldn't say the chef is "the worst cook in the world, everything he does now is shit and he should commit seppukku" when I can barely fucking cook sushi rice.

I think it's been years since Bioware wrote anything remotely decent. In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6. I could talk for hours about how the writing devolved (but I'd have to play ME 3 again, which isn't going to happen).

Yeah well, no offense buddy, but they've actually created videogames.

Even if you still thought they were the worst creations in the known multiverse, they would still know more about their own craft that you would, why ? Because as far as I know, you've yet to make your own.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 27, 2019, 07:40:23 am
Yeah well, no offense buddy, but they've actually created videogames.

Even if you still thought they were the worst creations in the known multiverse, they would still know more about their own craft that you would, why ? Because as far as I know, you've yet to make your own.

So what next, only people who made a game but got above a certain score on Metacritic get to criticize games harshly? Do you understand the full consequences on conversation of what you are suggesting, especially outside of gaming? "Ha, your roof isn't leaking, you just never built a house of your own, you don't know any better!" "What do you mean, the car doesn't handle properly? You aren't an engineer or at least and F1 pilot, how dare you act so high and mighty?"

I have made 3 and a half adult games in my life so far (and I am currently making a living with the development of my 4th game on Patreon). Do I get to talk shit about them now? Or will you move these goalposts a bit further? Let me be blunt: despite making a porn game (which carries a huge baggage and a set of limitations which is quite remarkable as far as design space go) I'd take offense if someone said my last game was worse than ME3 in the writing department. That isn't to say that my writing is great, just that ME3 is garbage by almost any writing standard. It's almost OFFENSIVELY bad, and I certainly don't have to be kind about it in an internet forum. Games like super mario can get away with having almost no story to speak of, because they don't focus on it. Even if you have a bad story, it's still fine that way (not optimal, but acceptable). BUT! If you make an RPG, and you put your story front and center, there are some basic expectations and standards to meet.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on April 27, 2019, 10:18:23 am
Before this escalates into personal struggle, I suggest everybody cools down. You should also remember that Bioware isn't one studio anymore, but several in different locations, and the drama about the release of Anthem clearly shows to me, that they lost some kind of what made them great before and writing might be amongst it. I recommend you read this: https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 27, 2019, 12:21:00 pm
So what next, only people who made a game but got above a certain score on Metacritic get to criticize games harshly? Do you understand the full consequences on conversation of what you are suggesting, especially outside of gaming? "Ha, your roof isn't leaking, you just never built a house of your own, you don't know any better!" "What do you mean, the car doesn't handle properly? You aren't an engineer or at least and F1 pilot, how dare you act so high and mighty?"

Again, never said that. Only that there's a difference between saying "The writers of Andromeda are a bunch of talentless hacks" and "Andromeda's writing was below my expectations"

I would certainly never deny that Bioware has lost some luster in recent years; I am certainly not excited about the release of Anthem. However, I'm sure you know who's the lead in Anthem, who is also the brilliant mind behind Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: mdqp on April 27, 2019, 12:53:21 pm
Again, never said that. Only that there's a difference between saying "The writers of Andromeda are a bunch of talentless hacks" and "Andromeda's writing was below my expectations"

I would certainly never deny that Bioware has lost some luster in recent years; I am certainly not excited about the release of Anthem. However, I'm sure you know who's the lead in Anthem, who is also the brilliant mind behind Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect.

After I complained about their writing (briefly going over what I didn't like of the games I tried, because I don't want to write an essay on these games), you replied to my post saying:

"Yeah well, no offense buddy, but they've actually created videogames.

Even if you still thought they were the worst creations in the known multiverse, they would still know more about their own craft that you would, why ? Because as far as I know, you've yet to make your own."

You are either arguing that I shouldn't express my opinion because it's not qualified enough (or that it should be valued significantly less for this), or you just like reminding people that they are not developers for the sake of it.

I don't think I am wrong in my interpretation, am I?

I was pointing out that I find this absurd, by making analogies and exaggerating what seems to be the driving point behind your comment (which is to say, to comment on writing in a game, one needs to be a writer or a developer, otherwise they can't make correct observations).

Who works at Bioware is largely irrelevant, I am assessing the games as I got them. They could have a dream team or a bunch of kindergarden rejects, it doesn't really change how the game turned out (my impression might actually get worse, if I know someone who's supposed to be good at their job, was involved with a bad game, but it would be the impression of the company, not of the game).

I don't think I even called the writers names. I will say, though, that I do question the writing ability of anyone who had significant involvement in ME 3, for example. Things can happen, and writers don't have full control over the direction of the game (games are complex pieces of software), but I also need to evaluate their work at face value ("my co-workers hate my homework" isn't a great excuse).
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 28, 2019, 03:26:51 am
You are either arguing that I shouldn't express my opinion because it's not qualified enough (or that it should be valued significantly less for this), or you just like reminding people that they are not developers for the sake of it.

Or I am arguing for temperance in how one criticizes other people's work and effort, of which most of us (including myself) know very little about.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: marex on April 29, 2019, 07:44:41 am
You are either arguing that I shouldn't express my opinion because it's not qualified enough (or that it should be valued significantly less for this), or you just like reminding people that they are not developers for the sake of it.

Or I am arguing for temperance in how one criticizes other people's work and effort, of which most of us (including myself) know very little about.

Hold on a second, no one here criticizes other people's work and effort, they criticize their lack of effort and sincerity compared to their previous work. And their intentions are a question mark on people's minds after EA. Its not like they work for free you know. I know something about projects, people put on their best fake effort when either they are not happy with the project for some reason or they simply don't care. And it results with a C or B instead of A we the fans expect. As i said, they pissed off fans with ME3 ending and ever since then why the hell fight with fans? It doesn't make sense. Are you also unhappy when people praise CDPR because they overpraise their efforts and their temperance they should just chill cause nobody knows about anything? [minus u]
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 09, 2019, 02:05:22 pm
In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6.

Speaking of ME, I only played the first one and was pretty annoyed that it felt like a bad copy of "Babylon 5" at the time, only nobody seemed to notice. And then they messed up the ending in ME3 very badly from what I read, while in B5 it actually all made sense in the end! So maybe the ME1 writing benefited from them copying from B5 and once they deviated it went bad. See Deep Space 9 ;)!

Glad to see another Babylon 5 fan here :)
I have to agree, in their good moments, ME seemed to have copied a lot from B5.

But I think, the arguments about ME being good or not or DA being good or not shows a lot about how a game is mostly completely subjective. I personally love DA2, despite the reused dungeons and the railroaded ending and the companion, that fucks you over and you can do nothing about it, because I love the characters and the dialogues and especially Hawke. Those things bring me back to playing DA2 again and again (similar with VtMB actually).
I think, people can get very passionate about their fandoms and I can somewhat understand the notion, that people want their B1 protagonist back as player character (the same discussion we have for years over in the DA forum, I'm active in, people want the Warden back for three games now, despite DA not being a game with a recurring protagonist).
Plus the fear, that the writing might not be as good as the first game, is always there. To go back to the example of DA: I think the writing was best on DAO, the protagonist was best in DA2 and DAI had some nice political intrigues plus imo the best companion cast (the only game, where I liked every companion). Others might completely contradict me here and that is ok.
WHat I wanted to say is, that no matter what game, no matter how well it is written or how good it is executed, you will never make everyone happy. I'm excited about B2 and I'm really ok with another city and protagonist, but I also will be a bit melancolic to leave LA and my Malk behind.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 08:37:13 pm
In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6.

Speaking of ME, I only played the first one and was pretty annoyed that it felt like a bad copy of "Babylon 5" at the time, only nobody seemed to notice. And then they messed up the ending in ME3 very badly from what I read, while in B5 it actually all made sense in the end! So maybe the ME1 writing benefited from them copying from B5 and once they deviated it went bad. See Deep Space 9 ;)!

Glad to see another Babylon 5 fan here :)
I have to agree, in their good moments, ME seemed to have copied a lot from B5.

But I think, the arguments about ME being good or not or DA being good or not shows a lot about how a game is mostly completely subjective. I personally love DA2, despite the reused dungeons and the railroaded ending and the companion, that fucks you over and you can do nothing about it, because I love the characters and the dialogues and especially Hawke. Those things bring me back to playing DA2 again and again (similar with VtMB actually).
I think, people can get very passionate about their fandoms and I can somewhat understand the notion, that people want their B1 protagonist back as player character (the same discussion we have for years over in the DA forum, I'm active in, people want the Warden back for three games now, despite DA not being a game with a recurring protagonist).
Plus the fear, that the writing might not be as good as the first game, is always there. To go back to the example of DA: I think the writing was best on DAO, the protagonist was best in DA2 and DAI had some nice political intrigues plus imo the best companion cast (the only game, where I liked every companion). Others might completely contradict me here and that is ok.
WHat I wanted to say is, that no matter what game, no matter how well it is written or how good it is executed, you will never make everyone happy. I'm excited about B2 and I'm really ok with another city and protagonist, but I also will be a bit melancolic to leave LA and my Malk behind.

The reused dungeons pissed me off BAD. Also, Anders was really creepy in DA2. He seemed cool in that DLC for DA:O, but in DA2, he suddenly becomes a romantic interest. In and of itself, that's not a problem. I'm into womanfolk, but I'm I'll let my dude flirt with the guys in the game and vice versa. Why not? ;p

The problem with Anders for me, however, is that he's uncomfortably clingy, acts insecure, and was never likable at any point. That elf dude with the Spanish accent in DA:O...Zevran or something? My dude knocked boots with him for an achievement, and he was never a little creeper with me. None of the ladies in the DA games even acted so needy or bitchy as Anders. I wanted to kill him if not for the fact that playing the hero seemed really fitting for the world of DA2, and murdering a guy for "being creepy" kinda violates some core values of non-zealotous heroism.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 09, 2019, 10:03:27 pm
In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6.

Speaking of ME, I only played the first one and was pretty annoyed that it felt like a bad copy of "Babylon 5" at the time, only nobody seemed to notice. And then they messed up the ending in ME3 very badly from what I read, while in B5 it actually all made sense in the end! So maybe the ME1 writing benefited from them copying from B5 and once they deviated it went bad. See Deep Space 9 ;)!

Glad to see another Babylon 5 fan here :)
I have to agree, in their good moments, ME seemed to have copied a lot from B5.

But I think, the arguments about ME being good or not or DA being good or not shows a lot about how a game is mostly completely subjective. I personally love DA2, despite the reused dungeons and the railroaded ending and the companion, that fucks you over and you can do nothing about it, because I love the characters and the dialogues and especially Hawke. Those things bring me back to playing DA2 again and again (similar with VtMB actually).
I think, people can get very passionate about their fandoms and I can somewhat understand the notion, that people want their B1 protagonist back as player character (the same discussion we have for years over in the DA forum, I'm active in, people want the Warden back for three games now, despite DA not being a game with a recurring protagonist).
Plus the fear, that the writing might not be as good as the first game, is always there. To go back to the example of DA: I think the writing was best on DAO, the protagonist was best in DA2 and DAI had some nice political intrigues plus imo the best companion cast (the only game, where I liked every companion). Others might completely contradict me here and that is ok.
WHat I wanted to say is, that no matter what game, no matter how well it is written or how good it is executed, you will never make everyone happy. I'm excited about B2 and I'm really ok with another city and protagonist, but I also will be a bit melancolic to leave LA and my Malk behind.

The reused dungeons pissed me off BAD. Also, Anders was really creepy in DA2. He seemed cool in that DLC for DA:O, but in DA2, he suddenly becomes a romantic interest. In and of itself, that's not a problem. I'm into womanfolk, but I'm I'll let my dude flirt with the guys in the game and vice versa. Why not? ;p

The problem with Anders for me, however, is that he's uncomfortably clingy, acts insecure, and was never likable at any point. That elf dude with the Spanish accent in DA:O...Zevran or something? My dude knocked boots with him for an achievement, and he was never a little creeper with me. None of the ladies in the DA games even acted so needy or bitchy as Anders. I wanted to kill him if not for the fact that playing the hero seemed really fitting for the world of DA2, and murdering a guy for "being creepy" kinda violates some core values of non-zealotous heroism.

TBH I did like Anders, but he is not my favorite romance. If it would have been possible, my Hawke would have romanced the hell out of Varric, my favorite DA character of all games. Isabella was fun too, she reminded me a bit of Zevran (the elf with the spanish accent from DAO, my favorite romance in all games), but I agree, that Anders was a bit clingy.
What I didn't like was, that I as a player, knew, what Anders was up too from the ingredients, he needed, but I couldn't do anything in game. Still, I normally don't kill him, because it's simply not Hawkes job, but Avelines or Meredith.
Still, I love most of DA2, despite the game being flawed and I love my sarcastic Hawkes nearly as much as my Malkavian
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 10:26:05 pm
In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6.

Speaking of ME, I only played the first one and was pretty annoyed that it felt like a bad copy of "Babylon 5" at the time, only nobody seemed to notice. And then they messed up the ending in ME3 very badly from what I read, while in B5 it actually all made sense in the end! So maybe the ME1 writing benefited from them copying from B5 and once they deviated it went bad. See Deep Space 9 ;)!

Glad to see another Babylon 5 fan here :)
I have to agree, in their good moments, ME seemed to have copied a lot from B5.

But I think, the arguments about ME being good or not or DA being good or not shows a lot about how a game is mostly completely subjective. I personally love DA2, despite the reused dungeons and the railroaded ending and the companion, that fucks you over and you can do nothing about it, because I love the characters and the dialogues and especially Hawke. Those things bring me back to playing DA2 again and again (similar with VtMB actually).
I think, people can get very passionate about their fandoms and I can somewhat understand the notion, that people want their B1 protagonist back as player character (the same discussion we have for years over in the DA forum, I'm active in, people want the Warden back for three games now, despite DA not being a game with a recurring protagonist).
Plus the fear, that the writing might not be as good as the first game, is always there. To go back to the example of DA: I think the writing was best on DAO, the protagonist was best in DA2 and DAI had some nice political intrigues plus imo the best companion cast (the only game, where I liked every companion). Others might completely contradict me here and that is ok.
WHat I wanted to say is, that no matter what game, no matter how well it is written or how good it is executed, you will never make everyone happy. I'm excited about B2 and I'm really ok with another city and protagonist, but I also will be a bit melancolic to leave LA and my Malk behind.

The reused dungeons pissed me off BAD. Also, Anders was really creepy in DA2. He seemed cool in that DLC for DA:O, but in DA2, he suddenly becomes a romantic interest. In and of itself, that's not a problem. I'm into womanfolk, but I'm I'll let my dude flirt with the guys in the game and vice versa. Why not? ;p

The problem with Anders for me, however, is that he's uncomfortably clingy, acts insecure, and was never likable at any point. That elf dude with the Spanish accent in DA:O...Zevran or something? My dude knocked boots with him for an achievement, and he was never a little creeper with me. None of the ladies in the DA games even acted so needy or bitchy as Anders. I wanted to kill him if not for the fact that playing the hero seemed really fitting for the world of DA2, and murdering a guy for "being creepy" kinda violates some core values of non-zealotous heroism.

TBH I did like Anders, but he is not my favorite romance. If it would have been possible, my Hawke would have romanced the hell out of Varric, my favorite DA character of all games. Isabella was fun too, she reminded me a bit of Zevran (the elf with the spanish accent from DAO, my favorite romance in all games), but I agree, that Anders was a bit clingy.
What I didn't like was, that I as a player, knew, what Anders was up too from the ingredients, he needed, but I couldn't do anything in game. Still, I normally don't kill him, because it's simply not Hawkes job, but Avelines or Meredith.
Still, I love most of DA2, despite the game being flawed and I love my sarcastic Hawkes nearly as much as my Malkavian

Well, at least someone got some enjoyment out of DA2. To be fair, even though I had a lot of issues with it, I enjoyed it WAY more than DA:I. The only thing I liked in DA:I was more Varric (he's so awesome), and I liked Cassandra. The combat was a bit smoother, but it bored me after a while. Same with the multiplayer which was just designed to be just decent enough to try to cajole you into purchasing loot boxes with irl money. I never came close to finishing DA:I, whereas I completed DA:O and DA2. DA:I's huge maps just felt like busy work, but I'm OCD and can't just pass on collecting all the crap if I'm going to continue, so I finally was like "Enough is enough" and called it quits.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 11:36:08 pm
Well, at least someone got some enjoyment out of DA2.

Excuse me sir, I enjoyed DA2 as well, since it was a GREAT game !
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 11:38:07 pm
Well, at least someone got some enjoyment out of DA2.

Excuse me sir, I enjoyed DA2 as well, since it was a GREAT game !

*rings a large cowbell and points* I found him! The other DA2 fan! XD
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 11:42:51 pm
*rings a large cowbell and points* I found him! The other DA2 fan! XD

Hey, at least that game ends... unlike Inquisition.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 03:24:12 am
*rings a large cowbell and points* I found him! The other DA2 fan! XD

Hey, at least that game ends... unlike Inquisition.

Does it just continue when you beat it? Or is that a "the game is too long" joke? It was so long that I never touched it again after I played long enough. Inquisition was so boring for me. =/
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 10, 2019, 03:35:40 am
Does it just continue when you beat it? Or is that a "the game is too long" joke? It was so long that I never touched it again after I played long enough. Inquisition was so boring for me. =/

It's a "The game is too long" joke.

I swear, those sidequests were the most pointless things ever to be put in a videogame.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 05:48:58 am
Does it just continue when you beat it? Or is that a "the game is too long" joke? It was so long that I never touched it again after I played long enough. Inquisition was so boring for me. =/

It's a "The game is too long" joke.

I swear, those sidequests were the most pointless things ever to be put in a videogame.

Agreed. It's all busy work in my opinion. So many of the quests involved finding a certain number of things scattered around, and much of the time there was no quest marker...so you just randomly wander around killing enemies and exploring the map, and it's not super atmospheric like Bloodlines, Prey (2017), Dishonored, Bioshock, etc.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 10, 2019, 06:27:01 am
In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6.

Speaking of ME, I only played the first one and was pretty annoyed that it felt like a bad copy of "Babylon 5" at the time, only nobody seemed to notice. And then they messed up the ending in ME3 very badly from what I read, while in B5 it actually all made sense in the end! So maybe the ME1 writing benefited from them copying from B5 and once they deviated it went bad. See Deep Space 9 ;)!

Glad to see another Babylon 5 fan here :)
I have to agree, in their good moments, ME seemed to have copied a lot from B5.

But I think, the arguments about ME being good or not or DA being good or not shows a lot about how a game is mostly completely subjective. I personally love DA2, despite the reused dungeons and the railroaded ending and the companion, that fucks you over and you can do nothing about it, because I love the characters and the dialogues and especially Hawke. Those things bring me back to playing DA2 again and again (similar with VtMB actually).
I think, people can get very passionate about their fandoms and I can somewhat understand the notion, that people want their B1 protagonist back as player character (the same discussion we have for years over in the DA forum, I'm active in, people want the Warden back for three games now, despite DA not being a game with a recurring protagonist).
Plus the fear, that the writing might not be as good as the first game, is always there. To go back to the example of DA: I think the writing was best on DAO, the protagonist was best in DA2 and DAI had some nice political intrigues plus imo the best companion cast (the only game, where I liked every companion). Others might completely contradict me here and that is ok.
WHat I wanted to say is, that no matter what game, no matter how well it is written or how good it is executed, you will never make everyone happy. I'm excited about B2 and I'm really ok with another city and protagonist, but I also will be a bit melancolic to leave LA and my Malk behind.

The reused dungeons pissed me off BAD. Also, Anders was really creepy in DA2. He seemed cool in that DLC for DA:O, but in DA2, he suddenly becomes a romantic interest. In and of itself, that's not a problem. I'm into womanfolk, but I'm I'll let my dude flirt with the guys in the game and vice versa. Why not? ;p

The problem with Anders for me, however, is that he's uncomfortably clingy, acts insecure, and was never likable at any point. That elf dude with the Spanish accent in DA:O...Zevran or something? My dude knocked boots with him for an achievement, and he was never a little creeper with me. None of the ladies in the DA games even acted so needy or bitchy as Anders. I wanted to kill him if not for the fact that playing the hero seemed really fitting for the world of DA2, and murdering a guy for "being creepy" kinda violates some core values of non-zealotous heroism.

TBH I did like Anders, but he is not my favorite romance. If it would have been possible, my Hawke would have romanced the hell out of Varric, my favorite DA character of all games. Isabella was fun too, she reminded me a bit of Zevran (the elf with the spanish accent from DAO, my favorite romance in all games), but I agree, that Anders was a bit clingy.
What I didn't like was, that I as a player, knew, what Anders was up too from the ingredients, he needed, but I couldn't do anything in game. Still, I normally don't kill him, because it's simply not Hawkes job, but Avelines or Meredith.
Still, I love most of DA2, despite the game being flawed and I love my sarcastic Hawkes nearly as much as my Malkavian

Well, at least someone got some enjoyment out of DA2. To be fair, even though I had a lot of issues with it, I enjoyed it WAY more than DA:I. The only thing I liked in DA:I was more Varric (he's so awesome), and I liked Cassandra. The combat was a bit smoother, but it bored me after a while. Same with the multiplayer which was just designed to be just decent enough to try to cajole you into purchasing loot boxes with irl money. I never came close to finishing DA:I, whereas I completed DA:O and DA2. DA:I's huge maps just felt like busy work, but I'm OCD and can't just pass on collecting all the crap if I'm going to continue, so I finally was like "Enough is enough" and called it quits.

I do like all DA games, I played the hell out of all of them. Dai is big, granted, but it has great moments. My favorites are the Doctor Who moments in the conversations with Dorian when you two travel through time into the future, the quest in the Winter Palace, where you have to play the Orlesian political game in order to be successful, when you find out Viviennes soft spot, all the companions, especially Varric, Dorian and Iron Bull... well, I admit, I just love the DA fandom  :).

About the sidequests :I don't do them all. You'll get enough experience and resources without bothering with the fetching quest. For role-playing reasons I do the quests, where you help the refugees and for atmosphere all the elven ruins and the Still Ruin (the one with the frozen demons), but the rest, I mostly don't do anymore after 5 playthroughs
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 11:04:42 pm
In fact, I'll go as far to say that the last really good writing I saw was in the companions of ME 2. The main plot of ME 2 is really bad, poorly written and paced, with obvious, on the nose narrative devices from start to finish. ME 3 is worse in every respect (it doesn't even do its characters justice). The ending is on another level, but even assuming a decent ending, I would never give that game more than a 6.

Speaking of ME, I only played the first one and was pretty annoyed that it felt like a bad copy of "Babylon 5" at the time, only nobody seemed to notice. And then they messed up the ending in ME3 very badly from what I read, while in B5 it actually all made sense in the end! So maybe the ME1 writing benefited from them copying from B5 and once they deviated it went bad. See Deep Space 9 ;)!

Glad to see another Babylon 5 fan here :)
I have to agree, in their good moments, ME seemed to have copied a lot from B5.

But I think, the arguments about ME being good or not or DA being good or not shows a lot about how a game is mostly completely subjective. I personally love DA2, despite the reused dungeons and the railroaded ending and the companion, that fucks you over and you can do nothing about it, because I love the characters and the dialogues and especially Hawke. Those things bring me back to playing DA2 again and again (similar with VtMB actually).
I think, people can get very passionate about their fandoms and I can somewhat understand the notion, that people want their B1 protagonist back as player character (the same discussion we have for years over in the DA forum, I'm active in, people want the Warden back for three games now, despite DA not being a game with a recurring protagonist).
Plus the fear, that the writing might not be as good as the first game, is always there. To go back to the example of DA: I think the writing was best on DAO, the protagonist was best in DA2 and DAI had some nice political intrigues plus imo the best companion cast (the only game, where I liked every companion). Others might completely contradict me here and that is ok.
WHat I wanted to say is, that no matter what game, no matter how well it is written or how good it is executed, you will never make everyone happy. I'm excited about B2 and I'm really ok with another city and protagonist, but I also will be a bit melancolic to leave LA and my Malk behind.

The reused dungeons pissed me off BAD. Also, Anders was really creepy in DA2. He seemed cool in that DLC for DA:O, but in DA2, he suddenly becomes a romantic interest. In and of itself, that's not a problem. I'm into womanfolk, but I'm I'll let my dude flirt with the guys in the game and vice versa. Why not? ;p

The problem with Anders for me, however, is that he's uncomfortably clingy, acts insecure, and was never likable at any point. That elf dude with the Spanish accent in DA:O...Zevran or something? My dude knocked boots with him for an achievement, and he was never a little creeper with me. None of the ladies in the DA games even acted so needy or bitchy as Anders. I wanted to kill him if not for the fact that playing the hero seemed really fitting for the world of DA2, and murdering a guy for "being creepy" kinda violates some core values of non-zealotous heroism.

TBH I did like Anders, but he is not my favorite romance. If it would have been possible, my Hawke would have romanced the hell out of Varric, my favorite DA character of all games. Isabella was fun too, she reminded me a bit of Zevran (the elf with the spanish accent from DAO, my favorite romance in all games), but I agree, that Anders was a bit clingy.
What I didn't like was, that I as a player, knew, what Anders was up too from the ingredients, he needed, but I couldn't do anything in game. Still, I normally don't kill him, because it's simply not Hawkes job, but Avelines or Meredith.
Still, I love most of DA2, despite the game being flawed and I love my sarcastic Hawkes nearly as much as my Malkavian

Well, at least someone got some enjoyment out of DA2. To be fair, even though I had a lot of issues with it, I enjoyed it WAY more than DA:I. The only thing I liked in DA:I was more Varric (he's so awesome), and I liked Cassandra. The combat was a bit smoother, but it bored me after a while. Same with the multiplayer which was just designed to be just decent enough to try to cajole you into purchasing loot boxes with irl money. I never came close to finishing DA:I, whereas I completed DA:O and DA2. DA:I's huge maps just felt like busy work, but I'm OCD and can't just pass on collecting all the crap if I'm going to continue, so I finally was like "Enough is enough" and called it quits.

I do like all DA games, I played the hell out of all of them. Dai is big, granted, but it has great moments. My favorites are the Doctor Who moments in the conversations with Dorian when you two travel through time into the future, the quest in the Winter Palace, where you have to play the Orlesian political game in order to be successful, when you find out Viviennes soft spot, all the companions, especially Varric, Dorian and Iron Bull... well, I admit, I just love the DA fandom  :).

About the sidequests :I don't do them all. You'll get enough experience and resources without bothering with the fetching quest. For role-playing reasons I do the quests, where you help the refugees and for atmosphere all the elven ruins and the Still Ruin (the one with the frozen demons), but the rest, I mostly don't do anymore after 5 playthroughs

So it's unanimous: whether you like the game or not, there are quite a few really annoying side quests that detract from enjoyment if you do them. I wish I wasn't OCD n' stuff so I could ignore that and have finished the game instead of spending dozens of hours doing lame crap and wishing I was playing something else.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 11, 2019, 01:21:43 am
well, I admit, I just love the DA fandom  :).

I kinda wish they loved the game... but they just mostly love the romances, lol.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 04:48:46 am
well, I admit, I just love the DA fandom  :).

I kinda wish they loved the game... but they just mostly love the romances, lol.

I wasn't a huge fan of the DA games' romances. That elf girl in Inquisition is insufferable. I like her haircut, but her personality was quite grating for me. Vivienne seemed like kind of a dick...Cassandra seemed great, though I couldn't stand the game long enough to complete her romance. Iron Bull was great for the lulz.

I preferred Mass Effect's romances, though ME2 was probably my favorite Bioware romance thing. If only I could have that millenia-old MILF-thrice-over, Samara, though. >_<
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 11, 2019, 10:59:16 am
well, I admit, I just love the DA fandom  :).

I kinda wish they loved the game... but they just mostly love the romances, lol.

I wasn't a huge fan of the DA games' romances. That elf girl in Inquisition is insufferable. I like her haircut, but her personality was quite grating for me. Vivienne seemed like kind of a dick...Cassandra seemed great, though I couldn't stand the game long enough to complete her romance. Iron Bull was great for the lulz.

I preferred Mass Effect's romances, though ME2 was probably my favorite Bioware romance thing. If only I could have that millenia-old MILF-thrice-over, Samara, though. >_<

In ME there was only Garrus, I really liked as a character, but I never finished ME anyway, it was too shootery for my taste and the fights too repetative.
I like some romances in DA, they are not my main reason to play the game (like I sometimes think, they are for others), but they bring a nice flavor into the games. I liked Zevran in DAO, Isabella in DA2 and Iron Bull in DAI. I would have wished for a Varric romance, but I guess that ship is sailed now.

I agree, that many side quests are a bit tedious and boring and when you play DAI the first time, it can put you off. I  have the same problem with the Elder Scrolls games, I love them, but because of all the side quests, I never finished one ... well... I think, I finished Morrowind, but I don't remember the end anymore.
After playing through once, I decided to just skip some side quests. I think thats a problem with a lot of big open world games these days
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 11, 2019, 11:02:03 am
well, I admit, I just love the DA fandom  :).

I kinda wish they loved the game... but they just mostly love the romances, lol.

Yeah, the romances seem to be a big part in the games. Funny enough, my favorite characters are often the non romanceable like Varric, Aveline, Sten, Vivienne or Dorian (I know, he is romanceable for a male character, but I mostly play my own gender, when a game lets me)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 05:02:19 pm
well, I admit, I just love the DA fandom  :).

I kinda wish they loved the game... but they just mostly love the romances, lol.

I wasn't a huge fan of the DA games' romances. That elf girl in Inquisition is insufferable. I like her haircut, but her personality was quite grating for me. Vivienne seemed like kind of a dick...Cassandra seemed great, though I couldn't stand the game long enough to complete her romance. Iron Bull was great for the lulz.

I preferred Mass Effect's romances, though ME2 was probably my favorite Bioware romance thing. If only I could have that millenia-old MILF-thrice-over, Samara, though. >_<

In ME there was only Garrus, I really liked as a character, but I never finished ME anyway, it was too shootery for my taste and the fights too repetative.
I like some romances in DA, they are not my main reason to play the game (like I sometimes think, they are for others), but they bring a nice flavor into the games. I liked Zevran in DAO, Isabella in DA2 and Iron Bull in DAI. I would have wished for a Varric romance, but I guess that ship is sailed now.

I agree, that many side quests are a bit tedious and boring and when you play DAI the first time, it can put you off. I  have the same problem with the Elder Scrolls games, I love them, but because of all the side quests, I never finished one ... well... I think, I finished Morrowind, but I don't remember the end anymore.
After playing through once, I decided to just skip some side quests. I think thats a problem with a lot of big open world games these days

I did finish Oblivion, but yeah, I never finished Skyrim for that reason. To be fair, though, I LOVED those side quests enough that even though I didn't finish Skyrim, I still like it quite a bit, which is rare for me (liking a game a lot that I never finished despite dumping more than 100 hours into it). I think the farthest I ever got in the main storyline was I talked to some blind guys on a mountain. XD

As for romances, it's such a mixed bag...because of romances, I like to play male since I'm male irl, but when a game doesn't have romances, I often like to play a female since I care more about my protagonist that way (and if it's third person I have a nice view from behind (#classyremark)! So yeah, Cyberpunk 2077 has me wanting to play a guy ONLY for the romance. Otherwise, I'd love to play as a female. I almost wish the romances weren't there as a result since it's the only thing that influences me away from what I would otherwise love to do. =/
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 01:38:59 pm
I did finish Oblivion, but yeah, I never finished Skyrim for that reason. To be fair, though, I LOVED those side quests enough that even though I didn't finish Skyrim, I still like it quite a bit, which is rare for me (liking a game a lot that I never finished despite dumping more than 100 hours into it). I think the farthest I ever got in the main storyline was I talked to some blind guys on a mountain. XD

The greybeards ? No blindness among their ailments though xD

Finish it if you can, at least before TES 6 comes out. When it comes to "Dragon Stories" this is one I like a lot.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 02:16:25 pm
I did finish Oblivion, but yeah, I never finished Skyrim for that reason. To be fair, though, I LOVED those side quests enough that even though I didn't finish Skyrim, I still like it quite a bit, which is rare for me (liking a game a lot that I never finished despite dumping more than 100 hours into it). I think the farthest I ever got in the main storyline was I talked to some blind guys on a mountain. XD

The greybeards ? No blindness among their ailments though xD

Finish it if you can, at least before TES 6 comes out. When it comes to "Dragon Stories" this is one I like a lot.

Yeah...huh, were there blind guys in TES 4? I seem to recall that reading the Elder Scrolls makes you go blind. Or maybe it was the vampire DLC because I'm a whore for vampires and that popped up in that DLC? But yeah, I think that meeting the Greybeards must have been as far as I got in the storyline of TES 5. Or maybe I did a couple more quests after that and met some blind dudes or was told to find them? I did two playthroughs, each lasting 100+ hours, but neither of which I completed. Great game, but I don't have the patience to finish it completely each time, nor can I really pick it back up due to a feeling of "detachment" after going so long without playing that character and with the already-explored world that way. =p

And those games don't have much to do with one another, so I can probably just ignore it before playing TES 6. Also, since I've learned that I probably won't finish the game, I likely won't be as excited for it and will probably wait to get the game when it's like $9.99 or so.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 03:36:43 pm
Maybe just youtube the story then, if it pleases you. Though some of the choices are quite good if you ever feel like picking it up.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 12, 2019, 05:07:20 pm
I probably won't finish any TES game too. That worls is just too big. At some point, I always get bored and stop playing. A year later I want to play again, have no idea, what I was doing last time, when I stopped and start a new character and so on and so on.

A game, I really like, which was a bit overshadowed by Skyrim, is Kingdoms of Amalur. Beautiful world and a nice fighting system, very quick and intuitive imo. Very big too, but not as big as Skyrim & Co.

Dark prophet: Oh I have no problem watching Geralts or Enzios backside for a while :), meaning, I have no problem, playing a guy, if the game won't let me play a girl and I mostly do romances, that look interesting, no matter the gender, but if I can, I prefer playing a female. Which is kind of strange, because in pen  & paper, I often play guys.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 06:24:45 pm
I probably won't finish any TES game too. That worls is just too big. At some point, I always get bored and stop playing. A year later I want to play again, have no idea, what I was doing last time, when I stopped and start a new character and so on and so on.

Well, there's always the stuff one doesn't do, and that's always something VERY important to consider in a game like this.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 12, 2019, 06:47:55 pm
Ah, Skyrim...Steam tells me I have played it for 873 hours. :P

I have done every quest several times over (including the main quest) but never all of them on the same character. I've even had characters that completely ignored the MQ, and instead focused on one of the guild storylines. What can I say, TESV is up there with Bloodlines and Fallout New Vegas as one of my top 3 favourite games.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 08:02:42 pm
I probably won't finish any TES game too. That worls is just too big. At some point, I always get bored and stop playing. A year later I want to play again, have no idea, what I was doing last time, when I stopped and start a new character and so on and so on.

A game, I really like, which was a bit overshadowed by Skyrim, is Kingdoms of Amalur. Beautiful world and a nice fighting system, very quick and intuitive imo. Very big too, but not as big as Skyrim & Co.

Dark prophet: Oh I have no problem watching Geralts or Enzios backside for a while :), meaning, I have no problem, playing a guy, if the game won't let me play a girl and I mostly do romances, that look interesting, no matter the gender, but if I can, I prefer playing a female. Which is kind of strange, because in pen  & paper, I often play guys.

Ditto about TES games. I can't believe I finished Oblivion because I tend to get bored after a while. I think I had to use a leveling mod, though, because the way leveling/skill gains worked in the original release bothered me greatly.

Pen & paper? You lucky duck! I've never had the fortune of playing any pen and paper games. To be fair, though, I'm not the most extroverted person, and fantasy settings rarely appeal to me, so there's that. =p
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 12, 2019, 08:29:55 pm
I probably won't finish any TES game too. That worls is just too big. At some point, I always get bored and stop playing. A year later I want to play again, have no idea, what I was doing last time, when I stopped and start a new character and so on and so on.

A game, I really like, which was a bit overshadowed by Skyrim, is Kingdoms of Amalur. Beautiful world and a nice fighting system, very quick and intuitive imo. Very big too, but not as big as Skyrim & Co.

Dark prophet: Oh I have no problem watching Geralts or Enzios backside for a while :), meaning, I have no problem, playing a guy, if the game won't let me play a girl and I mostly do romances, that look interesting, no matter the gender, but if I can, I prefer playing a female. Which is kind of strange, because in pen  & paper, I often play guys.

Ditto about TES games. I can't believe I finished Oblivion because I tend to get bored after a while. I think I had to use a leveling mod, though, because the way leveling/skill gains worked in the original release bothered me greatly.

Pen & paper? You lucky duck! I've never had the fortune of playing any pen and paper games. To be fair, though, I'm not the most extroverted person, and fantasy settings rarely appeal to me, so there's that. =p

Yes, I play regular in a Cthulhu group and sometimes Star Wars and D&D. We had two VTM groups too, one Sabbat and one Camarilla, but sadly, the game master moved away. In the Sabbat round, I played the Tzimisce Aladar, one of my most beloved characters. He was a real gentleman and managed to keep his pack under control, despite them being some young hotheads. I would love to play him again.

Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 09:41:15 pm
I probably won't finish any TES game too. That worls is just too big. At some point, I always get bored and stop playing. A year later I want to play again, have no idea, what I was doing last time, when I stopped and start a new character and so on and so on.

A game, I really like, which was a bit overshadowed by Skyrim, is Kingdoms of Amalur. Beautiful world and a nice fighting system, very quick and intuitive imo. Very big too, but not as big as Skyrim & Co.

Dark prophet: Oh I have no problem watching Geralts or Enzios backside for a while :), meaning, I have no problem, playing a guy, if the game won't let me play a girl and I mostly do romances, that look interesting, no matter the gender, but if I can, I prefer playing a female. Which is kind of strange, because in pen  & paper, I often play guys.

Ditto about TES games. I can't believe I finished Oblivion because I tend to get bored after a while. I think I had to use a leveling mod, though, because the way leveling/skill gains worked in the original release bothered me greatly.

Pen & paper? You lucky duck! I've never had the fortune of playing any pen and paper games. To be fair, though, I'm not the most extroverted person, and fantasy settings rarely appeal to me, so there's that. =p

Yes, I play regular in a Cthulhu group and sometimes Star Wars and D&D. We had two VTM groups too, one Sabbat and one Camarilla, but sadly, the game master moved away. In the Sabbat round, I playd the Tzimisce Aladar, one of my most beloved characters. He was a real gentleman and managed to keep his pack under contril, despite them being some young hotheads. I would love to play him again.

Cthulhu would drive me crazy (pun kinda intended?). I would want to know what all is going on to understand the story, but then the more you learn, the more you lose your sanity until you effectively go mad and either A) end up in an asylum, B) get killed whilst crazy, or C) join the insane cult in something your character doesn't agree with in his/her core beliefs.

D&D is in a fantasy setting, so it would be hard for me to get into. VtM would be awesome, and your Sabbat dude sounds great. I would be highly cautious of which Storyteller I'd be willing to play under, though. In watching tabletop games online, it seems that some want to have it be "fun stuff" with little consequence, some want to tell an interesting story, and some want to murder the player characters. That last one would leave me positively fueled with rage because I'm not interested in spending weeks dreaming up an interesting character then spending months playing the character only to get killed by the Storyteller for his/her lulz unless it was an incredibly plot-relevant death that seemed very, very well-written.

The argument that some might make in favor of killing characters in VtM is "well, it's a game" only goes so far when the "game" has no save file, permadeath, and takes months to complete. =/  Moreover, while D&D is more combat-oriented, and I'm sure there are exceptions, from what I've found, VtM characters are usually MUCH "deeper" than the average D&D character, as VtM is a more dialog-based game, so there's more legitimate emotional investment in one's character.

If I were serving as Storyteller, I would only kill characters who won't back down from doing positively idiotic stuff that they've been given sufficient in-game warnings to refrain from doing, etc. (or things anyone would know not to do). There are plenty of non-fatal "punishments" to inflict for failing missions, losing a battle, etc. The exception to doing stupid stuff would be going out of one's way to have a character that the entire party's player characters cannot stand because he/she was an insufferable asshole well past the point of "good roleplaying."

In short, I won't even put up with "rogue-like" video games that last ~2-3 hours in a complete run, so I sure as hell am not going to spend weeks making a character, weeks or months playing him/her, then have my time and emotional investment "given the finger" while trying to get along with others and making decent decisions in-game. So I am skeptical as hell even if I were to find someone to play with in my life. =p
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 12, 2019, 10:13:39 pm
I probably won't finish any TES game too. That worls is just too big. At some point, I always get bored and stop playing. A year later I want to play again, have no idea, what I was doing last time, when I stopped and start a new character and so on and so on.

A game, I really like, which was a bit overshadowed by Skyrim, is Kingdoms of Amalur. Beautiful world and a nice fighting system, very quick and intuitive imo. Very big too, but not as big as Skyrim & Co.

Dark prophet: Oh I have no problem watching Geralts or Enzios backside for a while :), meaning, I have no problem, playing a guy, if the game won't let me play a girl and I mostly do romances, that look interesting, no matter the gender, but if I can, I prefer playing a female. Which is kind of strange, because in pen  & paper, I often play guys.

Ditto about TES games. I can't believe I finished Oblivion because I tend to get bored after a while. I think I had to use a leveling mod, though, because the way leveling/skill gains worked in the original release bothered me greatly.

Pen & paper? You lucky duck! I've never had the fortune of playing any pen and paper games. To be fair, though, I'm not the most extroverted person, and fantasy settings rarely appeal to me, so there's that. =p

Yes, I play regular in a Cthulhu group and sometimes Star Wars and D&D. We had two VTM groups too, one Sabbat and one Camarilla, but sadly, the game master moved away. In the Sabbat round, I playd the Tzimisce Aladar, one of my most beloved characters. He was a real gentleman and managed to keep his pack under contril, despite them being some young hotheads. I would love to play him again.

Cthulhu would drive me crazy (pun kinda intended?). I would want to know what all is going on to understand the story, but then the more you learn, the more you lose your sanity until you effectively go mad and either A) end up in an asylum, B) get killed whilst crazy, or C) join the insane cult in something your character doesn't agree with in his/her core beliefs.

D&D is in a fantasy setting, so it would be hard for me to get into. VtM would be awesome, and your Sabbat dude sounds great. I would be highly cautious of which Storyteller I'd be willing to play under, though. In watching tabletop games online, it seems that some want to have it be "fun stuff" with little consequence, some want to tell an interesting story, and some want to murder the player characters. That last one would leave me positively fueled with rage because I'm not interested in spending weeks dreaming up an interesting character then spending months playing the character only to get killed by the Storyteller for his/her lulz unless it was an incredibly plot-relevant death that seemed very, very well-written.

The argument that some might make in favor of killing characters in VtM is "well, it's a game" only goes so far when the "game" has no save file, permadeath, and takes months to complete. =/  Moreover, while D&D is more combat-oriented, and I'm sure there are exceptions, from what I've found, VtM characters are usually MUCH "deeper" than the average D&D character, as VtM is a more dialog-based game, so there's more legitimate emotional investment in one's character.

If I were serving as Storyteller, I would only kill characters who won't back down from doing positively idiotic stuff that they've been given sufficient in-game warnings to refrain from doing, etc. (or things anyone would know not to do). There are plenty of non-fatal "punishments" to inflict for failing missions, losing a battle, etc. The exception to doing stupid stuff would be going out of one's way to have a character that the entire party's player characters cannot stand because he/she was an insufferable asshole well past the point of "good roleplaying."

In short, I won't even put up with "rogue-like" video games that last ~2-3 hours in a complete run, so I sure as hell am not going to spend weeks making a character, weeks or months playing him/her, then have my time and emotional investment "given the finger" while trying to get along with others and making decent decisions in-game. So I am skeptical as hell even if I were to find someone to play with in my life. =p

Luckily, the GMs, I played with so far, weren't like that. I mean, yes, in Cthulhu you just know, that your character will eventually go insane or die, but I have some characters, that are in their third or fourth campaign (and one of them, being a psychopath and serial killer hasn't much sanity to begin with. He is kind of a polite Hannibal Lecter like dude, so he can work with groups, when it suits his needs).
My two VTM characters are doing quite well and the GM wasn't trying to get them murdered or so on purpose. He gave us some tough things to do, but always with a fair chance.
Same with Star Wars.
But it is always sad, if a character dies, even in a game like Cthulhu.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 10:40:02 pm
Ah, Skyrim...Steam tells me I have played it for 873 hours. :P

I have done every quest several times over (including the main quest) but never all of them on the same character. I've even had characters that completely ignored the MQ, and instead focused on one of the guild storylines. What can I say, TESV is up there with Bloodlines and Fallout New Vegas as one of my top 3 favourite games.

Supposedly a lot of folk say it's a lesser game compared to Oblivion and Morrowind, among others. Someday I'll test that theory myself.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 11:20:21 pm
Ah, Skyrim...Steam tells me I have played it for 873 hours. :P

I have done every quest several times over (including the main quest) but never all of them on the same character. I've even had characters that completely ignored the MQ, and instead focused on one of the guild storylines. What can I say, TESV is up there with Bloodlines and Fallout New Vegas as one of my top 3 favourite games.

Supposedly a lot of folk say it's a lesser game compared to Oblivion and Morrowind, among others. Someday I'll test that theory myself.

My issue with Morrowind is that it doesn't have objective markers. Before people jump on the hate train toward me about wanting to "have my hand held," let's not forget that Bloodlines has NO objective markers. I love how Bloodlines handles its quests for the most part. The problem with a game like Morrowind not having objective markers is that the damn thing already takes over 100 hours in its entirety, so why the hell do I want to have to go scouring the countryside looking for stuff without objective markers, making an already really long game even longer? If I just want to "spend time," I can take a nap, watch paint dry, replay the game, play another game, etc. I do not need the objectives to be forcefully hidden from me in something this long. =/
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 13, 2019, 03:09:27 am
My issue with Morrowind is that it doesn't have objective markers. Before people jump on the hate train toward me about wanting to "have my hand held," let's not forget that Bloodlines has NO objective markers. I love how Bloodlines handles its quests for the most part. The problem with a game like Morrowind not having objective markers is that the damn thing already takes over 100 hours in its entirety, so why the hell do I want to have to go scouring the countryside looking for stuff without objective markers, making an already really long game even longer? If I just want to "spend time," I can take a nap, watch paint dry, replay the game, play another game, etc. I do not need the objectives to be forcefully hidden from me in something this long. =/

If there's one thing that TES games have actually accomplished is reach critical mass on our tolerance for long games. I kinda want to play Skyrim again but FUCK ME if I'll do a hundred hours of that thing again.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 13, 2019, 03:34:37 am
My issue with Morrowind is that it doesn't have objective markers. Before people jump on the hate train toward me about wanting to "have my hand held," let's not forget that Bloodlines has NO objective markers. I love how Bloodlines handles its quests for the most part. The problem with a game like Morrowind not having objective markers is that the damn thing already takes over 100 hours in its entirety, so why the hell do I want to have to go scouring the countryside looking for stuff without objective markers, making an already really long game even longer? If I just want to "spend time," I can take a nap, watch paint dry, replay the game, play another game, etc. I do not need the objectives to be forcefully hidden from me in something this long. =/

If there's one thing that TES games have actually accomplished is reach critical mass on our tolerance for long games. I kinda want to play Skyrim again but FUCK ME if I'll do a hundred hours of that thing again.

That's how I felt with the classic Tomb Raider games. I kinda wanted to play them again, but even though they're only 20-30 hours long, you accomplish so LITTLE in that timeframe. Each level is just a few rooms. I can beat Portal in about 3 hours or so, and I feel like I've done almost as much stuff as I did in the original Tomb Raider. =/

Quote from: fylimar
Luckily, the GMs, I played with so far, weren't like that. I mean, yes, in Cthulhu you just know, that your character will eventually go insane or die, but I have some characters, that are in their third or fourth campaign (and one of them, being a psychopath and serial killer hasn't much sanity to begin with. He is kind of a polite Hannibal Lecter like dude, so he can work with groups, when it suits his needs).
My two VTM characters are doing quite well and the GM wasn't trying to get them murdered or so on purpose. He gave us some tough things to do, but always with a fair chance.
Same with Star Wars.
But it is always sad, if a character dies, even in a game like Cthulhu.

I'm glad you've been so fortunate. :D
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 13, 2019, 07:25:45 am
Ah, Skyrim...Steam tells me I have played it for 873 hours. :P

I have done every quest several times over (including the main quest) but never all of them on the same character. I've even had characters that completely ignored the MQ, and instead focused on one of the guild storylines. What can I say, TESV is up there with Bloodlines and Fallout New Vegas as one of my top 3 favourite games.

Supposedly a lot of folk say it's a lesser game compared to Oblivion and Morrowind, among others. Someday I'll test that theory myself.

I've played all of them; I like Skyrim best. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ However it may have to do with the fact that 1) Skyrim was my introduction to TES and 2) Oblivion and especially Morrowind are very old and dated now (graphics, mechanics), so it's a bit hard to get into them.  I mean, I have played Oblivion from start to finish and enjoyed it, but I wouldn't say the quests are vastly superior to Skyrim (IMO). As for Morrowind, I couldn't get very far because of how clunky it is (and yes, relying on vague journal clues in a vast open world where your objective is hidden behind that ONE rock in a maze-like area and you've been walking in circles for an hour gets old really fast), and I am sure the main quest is as good as people say but I haven't been wowed by the side quests, which were pretty simplistic IMO.

But everyone has favourites, and nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 13, 2019, 10:14:56 am
Ah, Skyrim...Steam tells me I have played it for 873 hours. :P

I have done every quest several times over (including the main quest) but never all of them on the same character. I've even had characters that completely ignored the MQ, and instead focused on one of the guild storylines. What can I say, TESV is up there with Bloodlines and Fallout New Vegas as one of my top 3 favourite games.

Supposedly a lot of folk say it's a lesser game compared to Oblivion and Morrowind, among others. Someday I'll test that theory myself.

I've played all of them; I like Skyrim best. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ However it may have to do with the fact that 1) Skyrim was my introduction to TES and 2) Oblivion and especially Morrowind are very old and dated now (graphics, mechanics), so it's a bit hard to get into them.  I mean, I have played Oblivion from start to finish and enjoyed it, but I wouldn't say the quests are vastly superior to Skyrim (IMO). As for Morrowind, I couldn't get very far because of how clunky it is (and yes, relying on vague journal clues in a vast open world where your objective is hidden behind that ONE rock in a maze-like area and you've been walking in circles for an hour gets old really fast), and I am sure the main quest is as good as people say but I haven't been wowed by the side quests, which were pretty simplistic IMO.

But everyone has favourites, and nostalgia is a powerful thing.

I agree about Morrowind being outdated, even with a mod that improves playing it. My introduction to TES was Morrowind and I played the hell out of it back then, but I tried replaying it last year and didn't get very far. It didn't age very well :)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 14, 2019, 01:40:54 am
I agree about Morrowind being outdated, even with a mod that improves playing it. My introduction to TES was Morrowind and I played the hell out of it back then, but I tried replaying it last year and didn't get very far. It didn't age very well :)

Not every game is Bloodlines ;)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 14, 2019, 02:28:22 am
I agree about Morrowind being outdated, even with a mod that improves playing it. My introduction to TES was Morrowind and I played the hell out of it back then, but I tried replaying it last year and didn't get very far. It didn't age very well :)

Not every game is Bloodlines ;)

A lot of people like a game due to nostalgia, even when it ages to the point of being pretty crappy. However, I find that I don't experience this. I'll throw any game under the bus that ages to such a point that I can no longer get enjoyment out of playing it, and I don't just enjoy them "because I played it when I was younger" like some people seem to. Bloodlines 1, along with Chrono Trigger and '90s Doom are a few of the only games I can think of off the top of my head that I still love despite the years beginning to piling on them.

Heck, I like '90s Doom better than 2016 Doom...although my reason for that is that the upgrades are in set locations as opposed to heals/ammo you can grab on any level (a la 90s Doom), effectively ruining the momentum/speed of the game the first game is famous for, unless you want to end up horrendously underpowered permanently by the end of the game 2016 game is still pretty darn good, but can't hold a candle to the original for that reason, in my opinion.

I would love to see them make some Heretic/Hexen games with characters and quests, etc...especially if they follow the premise laid out in Hexen 2 where there are four different characters classes. The IDEA was spectacular, but the execution was dogshit (stealth character can't actually stealth kill or really sneak, necromancer just has a random chance for extra healing orb skull things to drop, etc.).
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 14, 2019, 04:00:35 am
Arcanum is mine. That game is just too much of a masterpiece to age in any way.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 14, 2019, 05:08:13 am
Arcanum is mine. That game is just too much of a masterpiece to age in any way.

I played it and wanted to use magic, but no matter how much I pumped that red spell category...necromancy, I think? Anyway, no matter how much I pumped it, I kept getting slaughtered by everything. Did you play stealth or melee or something? The Tremere/Giovanni approach got me obliterated so many times that I quit years ago.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 14, 2019, 05:56:48 am
I played it and wanted to use magic, but no matter how much I pumped that red spell category...necromancy, I think? Anyway, no matter how much I pumped it, I kept getting slaughtered by everything. Did you play stealth or melee or something? The Tremere/Giovanni approach got me obliterated so many times that I quit years ago.

Really ? Black Necromancy is quite powerful in Arcanum. Try to spam "Harm" as much as you can on enemies, and if not, then try sword and board. Mostly though, every character is viable in Arcanum. I myself played a silver-tongued gunslinging half-orc that showered every asshole with grenades.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 14, 2019, 08:39:17 am
I agree about Morrowind being outdated, even with a mod that improves playing it. My introduction to TES was Morrowind and I played the hell out of it back then, but I tried replaying it last year and didn't get very far. It didn't age very well :)

Not every game is Bloodlines ;)

Indeed. And I must say, that I'm lucky, since most of my nostalgic games are still very much replayable today, like Baldurs Gate or Bloodlines and even Knights of the Old Republic, which is clunky from the controls, but not as bad as Morrowind.
And I was really sad about Morrwind, because I loved that game.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 14, 2019, 12:17:57 pm
I agree about Morrowind being outdated, even with a mod that improves playing it. My introduction to TES was Morrowind and I played the hell out of it back then, but I tried replaying it last year and didn't get very far. It didn't age very well :)

Not every game is Bloodlines ;)

Indeed. And I must say, that I'm lucky, since most of my nostalgic games are still very much replayable today, like Baldurs Gate or Bloodlines and even Knights of the Old Republic, which is clunky from the controls, but not as bad as Morrowind.
And I was really sad about Morrwind, because I loved that game.

I hate that the devs made Intelligence only help you at 10, 14, 18 in KotOR, instead of also 12, 16, and 20 like all the other D&D/d20 system games. What the hell?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 14, 2019, 02:03:46 pm
I agree about Morrowind being outdated, even with a mod that improves playing it. My introduction to TES was Morrowind and I played the hell out of it back then, but I tried replaying it last year and didn't get very far. It didn't age very well :)

Not every game is Bloodlines ;)

Indeed. And I must say, that I'm lucky, since most of my nostalgic games are still very much replayable today, like Baldurs Gate or Bloodlines and even Knights of the Old Republic, which is clunky from the controls, but not as bad as Morrowind.
And I was really sad about Morrwind, because I loved that game.

I hate that the devs made Intelligence only help you at 10, 14, 18 in KotOR, instead of also 12, 16, and 20 like all the other D&D/d20 system games. What the hell?

Yeah, you are right. That was strange. KOTOR has a big modding community though, maybe someone made a mod for that? I mostly used skins (loved playing as a Twilek) and patches.

Another of my classics is Monkey Island - just love the whole series
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 15, 2019, 12:41:12 am
I hate that the devs made Intelligence only help you at 10, 14, 18 in KotOR, instead of also 12, 16, and 20 like all the other D&D/d20 system games. What the hell?

Why is that bad ? Isn't it better to get stuff at 18 than 20 ?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 15, 2019, 02:37:36 am
I hate that the devs made Intelligence only help you at 10, 14, 18 in KotOR, instead of also 12, 16, and 20 like all the other D&D/d20 system games. What the hell?

Why is that bad ? Isn't it better to get stuff at 18 than 20 ?

No. Okay so in d20 games, you get bonus skill points based on your INT score, and bonuses only come at even numbers. So in Neverwinter Nights 2, INT 12 gives you +1 skill point per level, INT 14 gives you +2 skill point per level, INT 16 gives you +3 skill points per level, INT 18 gives you +4 skill points per level, and INT 20 gives you+5 skill point per level.

HOWEVER, in KotOR, INT 12 gives you +0 skill point per level, INT 14 gives you +1 skill point per level, INT 16 gives you +1 skill points per level, INT 18 gives you +2 skill points per level, and INT 20 gives you+2 skill point per level. If you could naturally reach INT 22 (it's impossible) in KotOR, you would get +3 skill points per level. INT 12, 16, and 20 give you no more skill points in KotOR. Every other even number gives you bonus skill points unlike all other d20 systems at the time of D&D 3.0 edition onward.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 16, 2019, 12:32:19 am
Good grief, my brain just broke.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 16, 2019, 03:07:38 am
Good grief, my brain just broke.

Lol! Basically in d20 systems, every even number stat above 10 should give you a bonus. In KotOR, every other even number stat above 10 in INT gives you a bonus. So basically INT is horribly broken in KotOR. They fixed it in KotOR II, but Bioware never bothered to patch the problem with the first game.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 16, 2019, 03:37:13 am
Lol! Basically in d20 systems, every even number stat above 10 should give you a bonus. In KotOR, every other even number stat above 10 in INT gives you a bonus. So basically INT is horribly broken in KotOR. They fixed it in KotOR II, but Bioware never bothered to patch the problem with the first game.

It's probably a thing that can be sorted out much better today than before. Back then there were only the obscure forums everyone dwelled on. Now we can hammer developers in the head with a thousands tweets per day.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 16, 2019, 05:53:35 am
Lol! Basically in d20 systems, every even number stat above 10 should give you a bonus. In KotOR, every other even number stat above 10 in INT gives you a bonus. So basically INT is horribly broken in KotOR. They fixed it in KotOR II, but Bioware never bothered to patch the problem with the first game.

It's probably a thing that can be sorted out much better today than before. Back then there were only the obscure forums everyone dwelled on. Now we can hammer developers in the head with a thousands tweets per day.

Well, I was forgiving-ish toward Bioware for that, but they've strayed too far from the kinds of games I'm interested in, packing microtransactions, grindy gameplay, expansive areas for the sheer sake of being large without content to interact with in many such locales, etc. They might be some people's cup of tea, but I don't think they'll ever offer another product I'll be interested in. Best case scenario, they quit EA and make a new company, swearing off the shenanigans that spiraled them down to where they are now, but I doubt that will happen.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 16, 2019, 06:44:23 am
Lol! Basically in d20 systems, every even number stat above 10 should give you a bonus. In KotOR, every other even number stat above 10 in INT gives you a bonus. So basically INT is horribly broken in KotOR. They fixed it in KotOR II, but Bioware never bothered to patch the problem with the first game.

It's probably a thing that can be sorted out much better today than before. Back then there were only the obscure forums everyone dwelled on. Now we can hammer developers in the head with a thousands tweets per day.

Well, I was forgiving-ish toward Bioware for that, but they've strayed too far from the kinds of games I'm interested in, packing microtransactions, grindy gameplay, expansive areas for the sheer sake of being large without content to interact with in many such locales, etc. They might be some people's cup of tea, but I don't think they'll ever offer another product I'll be interested in. Best case scenario, they quit EA and make a new company, swearing off the shenanigans that spiraled them down to where they are now, but I doubt that will happen.

What are some games of BioWare's that you did enjoy playing?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 16, 2019, 11:49:47 am
Lol! Basically in d20 systems, every even number stat above 10 should give you a bonus. In KotOR, every other even number stat above 10 in INT gives you a bonus. So basically INT is horribly broken in KotOR. They fixed it in KotOR II, but Bioware never bothered to patch the problem with the first game.

It's probably a thing that can be sorted out much better today than before. Back then there were only the obscure forums everyone dwelled on. Now we can hammer developers in the head with a thousands tweets per day.

Well, I was forgiving-ish toward Bioware for that, but they've strayed too far from the kinds of games I'm interested in, packing microtransactions, grindy gameplay, expansive areas for the sheer sake of being large without content to interact with in many such locales, etc. They might be some people's cup of tea, but I don't think they'll ever offer another product I'll be interested in. Best case scenario, they quit EA and make a new company, swearing off the shenanigans that spiraled them down to where they are now, but I doubt that will happen.

What are some games of BioWare's that you did enjoy playing?

KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 16, 2019, 06:30:59 pm
KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.

I have never played KotOR before, but I certainly enjoyed those other three.  Out of curiosity, what is it about DAI that you didn't like?  I can understand what your beef with DA2 was.  I had several of the same beefs with it.  I can also understand why you didn't like ME3 as we have discussed that in another thread.  But I thought DAI was great and a return to the type of BioWare game I had come to love and expect. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 16, 2019, 08:38:57 pm
KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.

I have never played KotOR before, but I certainly enjoyed those other three.  Out of curiosity, what is it about DAI that you didn't like?  I can understand what your beef with DA2 was.  I had several of the same beefs with it.  I can also understand why you didn't like ME3 as we have discussed that in another thread.  But I thought DAI was great and a return to the type of BioWare game I had come to love and expect.

DA:I had too many "busy work" quests collecting/looking at stuff for my liking. I'm pretty OCD and can't just ignore that stuff; especially on a first playthrough. The maps were huge with little in the way of content per square footage, and I don't recall caring about any characters except party members. And the only party members I liked were Cassandra and Varrick. I was so, so bored and had only recently obtained the keep/castle.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 16, 2019, 09:29:32 pm
DA:I had too many "busy work" quests collecting/looking at stuff for my liking. I'm pretty OCD and can't just ignore that stuff; especially on a first playthrough. The maps were huge with little in the way of content per square footage, and I don't recall caring about any characters except party members. And the only party members I liked were Cassandra and Varrick. I was so, so bored and had only recently obtained the keep/castle.

I can understand that.  The hither and thither fetch quests of RPGs can be a bit annoying.  I guess for my part I have just come to expect them from RPGs but yeah, BioWare was trying to take inspiration from Skyrim when it made the more open world areas.  I thought they were beautiful but you're right, not much was going on with them to make them completely interesting.  It was similar to Morrowind in that respect.  Its too bad DAI wasn't moddable because it could have done with a "Thedas Comes Alive" mod similar to the one created for TES III called "Morrowind Comes Alive" which created many active NPCs and inserted them throughout the game world.  I believe it also added some inns and things along those lines.  But they needed more buildings and homes and things that you could explore.  I think if EA had given them more time DAI could have been even better.  But over all, I really did love it quite a lot.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 16, 2019, 09:37:07 pm
KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.

I have never played KotOR before, but I certainly enjoyed those other three.  Out of curiosity, what is it about DAI that you didn't like?  I can understand what your beef with DA2 was.  I had several of the same beefs with it.  I can also understand why you didn't like ME3 as we have discussed that in another thread.  But I thought DAI was great and a return to the type of BioWare game I had come to love and expect.

DA:I had too many "busy work" quests collecting/looking at stuff for my liking. I'm pretty OCD and can't just ignore that stuff; especially on a first playthrough. The maps were huge with little in the way of content per square footage, and I don't recall caring about any characters except party members. And the only party members I liked were Cassandra and Varrick. I was so, so bored and had only recently obtained the keep/castle.

I really agree about the far too big maps. I often lost patience with games so big. WHat kept me playing DAI were the companions, which I loved, and some really great main quests, like In Hushed Whispers (which feels a bit like a Doctor Who episode and I love Dorian), Wicked eyes and wicked heart (where the inqui has to follow etiquette at the Orlesian court, very well done) and Here lies the abyss, where inqui and companions have to face a nightmare demon, who really was creepy imo.
BUt I don't have a problem to leave a quest be. A friend of mine has a similar problem as you: she can't leave a quest unfinished. Needlessly to say that she never finished DAI or any TES game
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 16, 2019, 09:57:45 pm
KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.

I have never played KotOR before, but I certainly enjoyed those other three.  Out of curiosity, what is it about DAI that you didn't like?  I can understand what your beef with DA2 was.  I had several of the same beefs with it.  I can also understand why you didn't like ME3 as we have discussed that in another thread.  But I thought DAI was great and a return to the type of BioWare game I had come to love and expect.

DA:I had too many "busy work" quests collecting/looking at stuff for my liking. I'm pretty OCD and can't just ignore that stuff; especially on a first playthrough. The maps were huge with little in the way of content per square footage, and I don't recall caring about any characters except party members. And the only party members I liked were Cassandra and Varrick. I was so, so bored and had only recently obtained the keep/castle.

I really agree about the far too big maps. I often lost patience with games so big. WHat kept me playing DAI were the companions, which I loved, and some really great main quests, like In Hushed Whispers (which feels a bit like a Doctor Who episode and I love Dorian), Wicked eyes and wicked heart (where the inqui has to follow etiquette at the Orlesian court, very well done) and Here lies the abyss, where inqui and companions have to face a nightmare demon, who really was creepy imo.
BUt I don't have a problem to leave a quest be. A friend of mine has a similar problem as you: she can't leave a quest unfinished. Needlessly to say that she never finished DAI or any TES game

Yeah, without skipping a bunch of those side quests DA:I feels like some form of torture-by-boredom. =p

I'm glad others enjoyed it, though. I just remember earlier Bioware games kinda only having a bunch of side quests that matter with memorable NPCs and those quests fleshed out the world. Also, I was delighted to have them to do.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 17, 2019, 12:36:21 am
KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.

ME3 as well. Don't be coy.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 17, 2019, 12:39:35 am
Yeah, without skipping a bunch of those side quests DA:I feels like some form of torture-by-boredom. =p

Which is a terrible thing given how the main quests are probably the best in the whole franchise.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 17, 2019, 01:00:31 am
KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.

ME3 as well. Don't be coy.

Lol, dude that ending, though...the gameplay and story was good until that ending...but the ending shat the bed so hard that it got all over the pillow casing. It was so bad that I haven't gone back and played it or ME2 since, and ME2 was my favorite ME game and I'd played through it at least 3 times before.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 17, 2019, 04:24:26 am
KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.

ME3 as well. Don't be coy.

Lol, dude that ending, though...the gameplay and story was good until that ending...but the ending shat the bed so hard that it got all over the pillow casing. It was so bad that I haven't gone back and played it or ME2 since, and ME2 was my favorite ME game and I'd played through it at least 3 times before.

Thank God I love happy endings and there is a mod that created one for ME3 and thank God for the Citadel DLC because it has become perfect for me.  The Mass Effect trilogy is probably my all time favorite game franchise.  Which is saying a lot.  It supplanted Baldur's Gate for me though I still go back and enjoy it from time to time.  There are some really great mods for it.

My second favorite is The Elder Scrolls and my third favorite is Dragon Age.  I love them all quite a lot. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 17, 2019, 05:45:27 am
KotOR, ME, ME2, DA:O.

ME3 as well. Don't be coy.

Lol, dude that ending, though...the gameplay and story was good until that ending...but the ending shat the bed so hard that it got all over the pillow casing. It was so bad that I haven't gone back and played it or ME2 since, and ME2 was my favorite ME game and I'd played through it at least 3 times before.

Thank God I love happy endings and there is a mod that created one for ME3 and thank God for the Citadel DLC because it has become perfect for me.  The Mass Effect trilogy is probably my all time favorite game franchise.  Which is saying a lot.  It supplanted Baldur's Gate for me though I still go back and enjoy it from time to time.  There are some really great mods for it.

My second favorite is The Elder Scrolls and my third favorite is Dragon Age.  I love them all quite a lot.

How the heck do they mod in a happy ending for ME3? :O
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 17, 2019, 08:48:27 am
How the heck do they mod in a happy ending for ME3? :O

I honestly don't know how they do it, but its fairly impressive for those who want a happy ending for ME3 that leaves Shepard alive (you still need the right amount of military strength and assets) and doesn't leave everyone completely stranded without the relays (for very long at least). It basically removes the Starchild, and you wind up utilizing the Catalyst and the Device as you might have originally expected to in that the Starchild isn't the catylist its the Citadel as originally thought.  And you get the destroy ending w/out killing EDI or the Geth and all other synthetic life in the galaxy other than the Reapers themselves and their creatures and the Mass Relays are left mostly intact as well so that with some fairly minor repairs (for something that huge anyway) everyone can just go home afterward. New cinematics are introduced as well, rearranged voice acting as well as new voice acting. Then your Commander Shepard is present and alive at the memorial scene and is the one to place the plaque, which has Admiral Anderson's name on it because sadly, he does still die.  You get embraced by your Love Interest who comforts you in your time of mourning.  If you use that mod in concert with the Citadel Epilogue Mod then the Citadel DLC takes place after the events of the main story, a couple years later.  References to the reaper threat as a current problem are removed and a few little touches are added to make it clear that the reaper threat is over.  So basically after a triumphant conclusion to the main story, your game ends with one last fun adventure and then a great big party and a touching final scene with your love interest.  Somehow modders have figured out how to do some amazing things with a game that isn't supposed to be moddable. 

Mass Effect 3 Happy Ending Mod
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/66

Citadel Epilogue Mod
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/2

Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 17, 2019, 11:59:32 am
How the heck do they mod in a happy ending for ME3? :O

I honestly don't know how they do it, but its fairly impressive for those who want a happy ending for ME3 that leaves Shepard alive (you still need the right amount of military strength and assets) and doesn't leave everyone completely stranded without the relays (for very long at least). It basically removes the Starchild, and you wind up utilizing the Catalyst and the Device as you might have originally expected to in that the Starchild isn't the catylist its the Citadel as originally thought.  And you get the destroy ending w/out killing EDI or the Geth and all other synthetic life in the galaxy other than the Reapers themselves and their creatures and the Mass Relays are left mostly intact as well so that with some fairly minor repairs (for something that huge anyway) everyone can just go home afterward. New cinematics are introduced as well, rearranged voice acting as well as new voice acting. Then your Commander Shepard is present and alive at the memorial scene and is the one to place the plaque, which has Admiral Anderson's name on it because sadly, he does still die.  You get embraced by your Love Interest who comforts you in your time of mourning.  If you use that mod in concert with the Citadel Epilogue Mod then the Citadel DLC takes place after the events of the main story, a couple years later.  References to the reaper threat as a current problem are removed and a few little touches are added to make it clear that the reaper threat is over.  So basically after a triumphant conclusion to the main story, your game ends with one last fun adventure and then a great big party and a touching final scene with your love interest.  Somehow modders have figured out how to do some amazing things with a game that isn't supposed to be moddable. 

Mass Effect 3 Happy Ending Mod
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/66

Citadel Epilogue Mod
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/2

You had me at the part where the Star Child never rears his stupid head. That sounds pretty cool. If I ever decide to fondle ME3 again, I'll hafta give those mods a whirl. I'm typically a purist in games, but the ME3 ending is an unprecedented travesty in gaming.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 18, 2019, 03:20:25 am
I wish a Tzimisce Halloween on all y'all !
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 18, 2019, 03:24:14 am
You had me at the part where the Star Child never rears his stupid head. That sounds pretty cool. If I ever decide to fondle ME3 again, I'll hafta give those mods a whirl. I'm typically a purist in games, but the ME3 ending is an unprecedented travesty in gaming.

I HATE the Star Child with all of my being.  lol
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 18, 2019, 03:35:05 am
You had me at the part where the Star Child never rears his stupid head. That sounds pretty cool. If I ever decide to fondle ME3 again, I'll hafta give those mods a whirl. I'm typically a purist in games, but the ME3 ending is an unprecedented travesty in gaming.

I HATE the Star Child with all of my being.  lol

Same here. I wanna feed that little thing into a space wood-chipper.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 03:15:52 am
AAAANYWAYS...

...did I ask here or somewhere else about the presence power ? That I didn't get it ?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 04:24:42 am
AAAANYWAYS...

...did I ask here or somewhere else about the presence power ? That I didn't get it ?

I don't recall where, but I do recall you asking. The developers stated that it will also have social uses like Dominate did in Bloodlines 1. If they do it right, then Presence is arguably the best dialog discipline in the game. Dominate doesn't make the person love you or think you're the greatest person ever. It makes them carry out an order and they owe you no allegiance later on. I was watching a pen and paper session and a Toreador with a high enough Presence forced another Toreador girl to fall in love with her instantly. That's some scary shit.

As for the "physical" aspects of the power which we saw in the footage, having a little horde of people might serve to distract Hunters looking for you in the city since they're expecting some fiend skulking about alone; not a social butterfly.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 19, 2019, 04:38:28 am
AAAANYWAYS...

...did I ask here or somewhere else about the presence power ? That I didn't get it ?

I don't recall where, but I do recall you asking. The developers stated that it will also have social uses like Dominate did in Bloodlines 1. If they do it right, then Presence is arguably the best dialog discipline in the game. Dominate doesn't make the person love you or think you're the greatest person ever. It makes them carry out an order and they owe you no allegiance later on. I was watching a pen and paper session and a Toreador with a high enough Presence forced another Toreador girl to fall in love with her instantly. That's some scary shit.

As for the "physical" aspects of the power which we saw in the footage, having a little horde of people might serve to distract Hunters looking for you in the city since they're expecting some fiend skulking about alone; not a social butterfly.

Man, one of the reasons it sucks that we are only going to get 2 disciplines verses the 3 of the previous title is that because Toreadors are getting presence, Ventrues probably aren't. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 04:51:39 am
AAAANYWAYS...

...did I ask here or somewhere else about the presence power ? That I didn't get it ?

I don't recall where, but I do recall you asking. The developers stated that it will also have social uses like Dominate did in Bloodlines 1. If they do it right, then Presence is arguably the best dialog discipline in the game. Dominate doesn't make the person love you or think you're the greatest person ever. It makes them carry out an order and they owe you no allegiance later on. I was watching a pen and paper session and a Toreador with a high enough Presence forced another Toreador girl to fall in love with her instantly. That's some scary shit.

As for the "physical" aspects of the power which we saw in the footage, having a little horde of people might serve to distract Hunters looking for you in the city since they're expecting some fiend skulking about alone; not a social butterfly.

Man, one of the reasons it sucks that we are only going to get 2 disciplines verses the 3 of the previous title is that because Toreadors are getting presence, Ventrues probably aren't.

I reckon we'll get Dominate and Fortitude. It's nice to have a combat Discipline, though. Then again, depending on how good the Thin-Blood powers are and how much XP we get, I may have to pass on Fortitude to be able to afford the other powers!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 19, 2019, 06:08:06 am
AAAANYWAYS...

...did I ask here or somewhere else about the presence power ? That I didn't get it ?

I don't recall where, but I do recall you asking. The developers stated that it will also have social uses like Dominate did in Bloodlines 1. If they do it right, then Presence is arguably the best dialog discipline in the game. Dominate doesn't make the person love you or think you're the greatest person ever. It makes them carry out an order and they owe you no allegiance later on. I was watching a pen and paper session and a Toreador with a high enough Presence forced another Toreador girl to fall in love with her instantly. That's some scary shit.

As for the "physical" aspects of the power which we saw in the footage, having a little horde of people might serve to distract Hunters looking for you in the city since they're expecting some fiend skulking about alone; not a social butterfly.

Man, one of the reasons it sucks that we are only going to get 2 disciplines verses the 3 of the previous title is that because Toreadors are getting presence, Ventrues probably aren't.

I reckon we'll get Dominate and Fortitude. It's nice to have a combat Discipline, though. Then again, depending on how good the Thin-Blood powers are and how much XP we get, I may have to pass on Fortitude to be able to afford the other powers!

I hope mod tools are available right away because I will be downloading the inevitable mods that add disciplines to clans to match what they had in the previous game.  Provided the mod tools are as powerful as Bethesda ones that is.  lol
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on May 19, 2019, 10:34:22 am
Man, one of the reasons it sucks that we are only going to get 2 disciplines verses the 3 of the previous title is that because Toreadors are getting presence, Ventrues probably aren't.

Ventrue having both Presence and Dominate was alway a waste in my opinion. What use is the Bloodlines version of Presence in fights when you have Fortitude? And when I added it in dialogue you often had two lines with similar results which would just confuse players...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 11:28:03 am
Man, one of the reasons it sucks that we are only going to get 2 disciplines verses the 3 of the previous title is that because Toreadors are getting presence, Ventrues probably aren't.
First we will still have our chosen Thinblood discipline. So are still 3 disciplines for each Clan. ;)
Second the main problem with some of the clans is that they lack on a exclusive discipline like Tremere (Thaumaturgy) or Gangrel (Protean)
In Bloodlines 1 especially Toreador and Brujah were so similiar from clear videogame perspective.

But for Bloodlines 2 they have decided that atleast one of three disciplines is exclusive to each clan.
It makes sense that Brujahs signature Discipline is Potence and for Toreador they have to pick Presence for Toreador signature discipline.
I also unterstand / like the decision that Tremere have lost Dominate because Ventrue need one signature discipline and Dominate is the most obvious choice.
Also Ventrue still have Fortitude.

Last but least nothing hurts more then the potential lost of Obfuscate for Malkavians. ;)
This sucks really bad but i can live without it. Obfuscate has to be Nosferatus exclusive / signature discipline.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 19, 2019, 11:58:27 am
Man, one of the reasons it sucks that we are only going to get 2 disciplines verses the 3 of the previous title is that because Toreadors are getting presence, Ventrues probably aren't.

Ventrue having both Presence and Dominate was alway a waste in my opinion. What use is the Bloodlines version of Presence in fights when you have Fortitude? And when I added it in dialogue you often had two lines with similar results which would just confuse players...

I think Presence in Bloodlines 2 is going to impact a lot more than just fighting though.  It may wind up making "Dominate" seem like the weaker discipline.  It will be interesting to see. 

Man, one of the reasons it sucks that we are only going to get 2 disciplines verses the 3 of the previous title is that because Toreadors are getting presence, Ventrues probably aren't.
First we will still have our chosen Thinblood discipline. So are still 3 disciplines for each Clan. ;)
Second the main problem with some of the clans is that they lack on a exclusive discipline like Tremere (Thaumaturgy) or Gangrel (Protean)
In Bloodlines 1 especially Toreador and Brujah were so similiar from clear videogame perspective.

But for Bloodlines 2 they have decided that atleast one of three disciplines is exclusive to each clan.
It makes sense that Brujahs signature Discipline is Potence and for Toreador they have to pick Presence for Toreador signature discipline.
I also unterstand / like the decision that Tremere have lost Dominate because Ventrue need one signature discipline and Dominate is the most obvious choice.
Also Ventrue still have Fortitude.

Last but least nothing hurts more then the potential lost of Obfuscate for Malkavians. ;)
This sucks really bad but i can live without it. Obfuscate has to be Nosferatus exclusive / signature discipline.

Yes we will have the thinblood disciplines, which is cool.  I am definitely aware of that.  But I want my Ventrue to be able to use Presence in conversations and in relationships, I don't want it to always be about a one shot domination. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 12:05:21 pm
Yes we will have the thinblood disciplines, which is cool.  I am definitely aware of that.  But I want my Ventrue to be able to use Presence in conversations and in relationships, I don't want it to always be about a one shot domination.
Well then play as Toreador or use Mods ;)
Or criticize that this wasn´t necessary if the Toreador had one unique clan discipline.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 19, 2019, 12:40:13 pm
Yes we will have the thinblood disciplines, which is cool.  I am definitely aware of that.  But I want my Ventrue to be able to use Presence in conversations and in relationships, I don't want it to always be about a one shot domination.
Well then play as Toreador or use Mods ;)
Or criticize that this wasn´t necessary if the Toreador had one unique clan discipline.

I fully intend to use mods if they will enable more disciplines, believe me.  :D 

And maybe I will play as a Toreador.  Truthfully the original reason I picked Ventrue for my first playthrough 12 years ago was because the Ventrue male was, to my eyes, the best looking of the males (2nd place going to the Tremere male) and then I just became loyal to the Ventrue.   Until recently, I stayed away from Toreador completely because the male model had a terrible hairstyle like a poofy triangle *blush*. But Ghanima recently created a model swap with the Tremere for me which has made the Toreador more appealing to me and if we have more control over our PC's looks at character creation, I can make a Toreador that looks like whatever I want him to look like. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 01:16:35 pm
Man, one of the reasons it sucks that we are only going to get 2 disciplines verses the 3 of the previous title is that because Toreadors are getting presence, Ventrues probably aren't.
First we will still have our chosen Thinblood discipline. So are still 3 disciplines for each Clan. ;)
Second the main problem with some of the clans is that they lack on a exclusive discipline like Tremere (Thaumaturgy) or Gangrel (Protean)
In Bloodlines 1 especially Toreador and Brujah were so similiar from clear videogame perspective.

But for Bloodlines 2 they have decided that atleast one of three disciplines is exclusive to each clan.
It makes sense that Brujahs signature Discipline is Potence and for Toreador they have to pick Presence for Toreador signature discipline.
I also unterstand / like the decision that Tremere have lost Dominate because Ventrue need one signature discipline and Dominate is the most obvious choice.
Also Ventrue still have Fortitude.

Last but least nothing hurts more then the potential lost of Obfuscate for Malkavians. ;)
This sucks really bad but i can live without it. Obfuscate has to be Nosferatus exclusive / signature discipline.

Of course, if they ever add any non-Camarilla clans, the disciplines won't be exclusive anymore to the main seven. Lasombra have Potence and Dominate. Thus, either Brujah or Ventrue would no longer have an exclusive discipline. Heck, Giovanni also have Potence and Dominate. AND both Lasombra and Giovanni have Oblivion! So those two clans have all three disciplines identical to one another. Granted, they might do like I'm expecting them to do with Malks, renaming V5 Dominate to "Dementation" as the amalgam/sub-header for Dominate, which they already did with the Tremere's "Thaumaturgy" as a sub-header of V5's "Blood Sorcery." So I would expect them to use "Obtenebration" and "Necromancy" again like in older editions to differentiate. However, Potence and Dominate would still have the same names unless they do some serious bullshitting.

In V5, Followers of Set ("The Ministry") have Protean, Obfuscate, and Presence. XD  So they would have the "exclusives" of THREE clans in Bloodlines 2. Now they could rename "Protean" to "Serpentis" like in the pre-V5 versions and make all the transformations be snake-like instead of bat/wolf stuff, which would be unique. However, Obfuscate is going to be Nossies' exclusive, and Presence is the Toreador's exclusive. Assamites have Blood Sorcery in V5, which the Tremere also have, but they'll probably name it "Quietus" like in pre-V5 versions since they've done that with Thaumaturgy for the Tremere.

But yeah, Lasombra, Giovanni, and The Ministry would all have the "exclusive" disciplines of other clans. This is disconcerting because it makes me wonder if - even if the game sells extremely well - the devs will deliberately refuse to add these clans for fear of "ruining" the exclusivity of others.

To be fair, though, I think that if Giovanni have Potence and Oblivion: Necromancy, and Lasombra have Dominate and Oblivion: Obtenebration, those two will be different enough from one another as well as Ventrue and Brujah. Same with giving The Ministry Protean: Serpentis and Presence, while Toreador have Celerity and Presence, and Gangrel have Protean (vanilla) and Animalism.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 03:15:52 pm
I think Presence in Bloodlines 2 is going to impact a lot more than just fighting though.  It may wind up making "Dominate" seem like the weaker discipline.  It will be interesting to see.

Hopefully. I'd rather see some gameplay to watch how it works; not really seeing how having a bunch of groupies around might be of use. At least the way they describe it.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 03:57:58 pm
Of course, if they ever add any non-Camarilla clans, the disciplines won't be exclusive anymore to the main seven. Lasombra have Potence and Dominate. Thus, either Brujah or Ventrue would no longer have an exclusive discipline. Heck, Giovanni also have Potence and Dominate. AND both Lasombra and Giovanni have Oblivion! So those two clans have all three disciplines identical to one another. Granted, they might do like I'm expecting them to do with Malks, renaming V5 Dominate to "Dementation" as the amalgam/sub-header for Dominate, which they already did with the Tremere's "Thaumaturgy" as a sub-header of V5's "Blood Sorcery." So I would expect them to use "Obtenebration" and "Necromancy" again like in older editions to differentiate. However, Potence and Dominate would still have the same names unless they do some serious bullshitting.

Here is my list. Maybe I choose some bullshit ;)

Assamite: Quietus (Exclusive Signature Discipline) and Celerity
Brujah: Potence (ESD) and Celerity
Gangrel: Protean (ESD) and Animalism
The Ministry: Serpentis (ESD) and Animalism
Hecata (Samedi, Cappadocian and Giovanni): Necromancy (ESD) and Fortitude,  or renamed Dominate/Potence path with different Dominate/Potence powers
Lasombra: Obtenebration (ESD) and renamed Dominate/Potence path with different Dominate/Potence powers or Daimonion
Malkavian:  Dementation (ESD)  and Auspex
Nosferatu: Obfuscate (ESD) and Animalism
Ravnos: Chimerstry  (ESD) and Animalism or Fortitude
Toreador: Presence (ESD) and Celerity
Tremere: Thaumaturgy (ESN) and Auspex
Tzimisce: Vicissitude (ESN) and Auspex or Animalism
Ventrue: Dominate (ESN) and Fortitue

It isn´t perfect but it could be done. Its a videogame so they have to stretch some of the lore/rules. Especially if they want to give each clan atleast one unique discipline.
Also i really doubt that we get to play all 13 clans in Bloodlines 2. I think we can rule out the Assamite, The Ministry and particularly the Tzimsce.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 04:05:41 pm
I think we can rule out the Assamite, The Ministry and particularly the Tzimsce.

Man I will not allow myself to die until I play Tzimisce on a VTM videogame.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 19, 2019, 04:23:47 pm
Man I will not allow myself to die until I play Tzimisce on a VTM videogame.
Well you gain in this case an immortal life. ;)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 19, 2019, 04:41:44 pm
I think we can rule out the Assamite, The Ministry and particularly the Tzimsce.

Man I will not allow myself to die until I play Tzimisce on a VTM videogame.

Technically you can with the Antitribu mod for Bloodlines. Bu tI get, what you mean and I agree. I so would love to play a Tzimisce
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 04:47:06 pm
I think we can rule out the Assamite, The Ministry and particularly the Tzimsce.

Man I will not allow myself to die until I play Tzimisce on a VTM videogame.

Technically you can with the Antitribu mod for Bloodlines. Bu tI get, what you mean and I agree. I so would love to play a Tzimisce

Same here. However, I think the devs won't allow me to remove the body part I wanted to remove and make a fiendish pet with legs, teeth, and eyes that I wanted to make as described elsewhere in the forum. I mean if I'm a Tzimisce, I don't need that on me and all. I'm not exactly going to remove my hands, arms, or legs, and Tzimisce humanity is usually too low for sex to be possible or even a consideration, soooooo I think I'm making a logical choice here with the part to utilize. It serves as a phylactery like how liches work, so if I'm destroyed, it can grow into another me! I think that's worth it. :D
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 19, 2019, 04:52:38 pm
I think we can rule out the Assamite, The Ministry and particularly the Tzimsce.

Man I will not allow myself to die until I play Tzimisce on a VTM videogame.

Technically you can with the Antitribu mod for Bloodlines. Bu tI get, what you mean and I agree. I so would love to play a Tzimisce

Same here. However, I think the devs won't allow me to remove the body part I wanted to remove and make a fiendish pet with legs, teeth, and eyes that I wanted to make as described elsewhere in the forum. I mean if I'm a Tzimisce, I don't need that on me and all. I'm not exactly going to remove my hands, arms, or legs, and Tzimisce humanity is usually too low for sex to be possible or even a consideration, soooooo I think I'm making a logical choice here with the part to utilize. It serves as a phylactery like how liches work, so if I'm destroyed, it can grow into another me! I think that's worth it. :D

Just think of it, making your own pets and your idea of a phylactery is really great too. I so hope, we can play a Tzimisce one day, they are my favorite Sabbat clan.
It could probably be difficult to make, because of the limitations of CC. But maybe, you can get new options in the CC as you progress in fleshcrafting, being able to open your CC menu after every level of fc to change your appearance. As with ghouls, maybe two or three different forms to choose ...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 05:54:38 pm
I think we can rule out the Assamite, The Ministry and particularly the Tzimsce.

Man I will not allow myself to die until I play Tzimisce on a VTM videogame.

Technically you can with the Antitribu mod for Bloodlines. Bu tI get, what you mean and I agree. I so would love to play a Tzimisce

Same here. However, I think the devs won't allow me to remove the body part I wanted to remove and make a fiendish pet with legs, teeth, and eyes that I wanted to make as described elsewhere in the forum. I mean if I'm a Tzimisce, I don't need that on me and all. I'm not exactly going to remove my hands, arms, or legs, and Tzimisce humanity is usually too low for sex to be possible or even a consideration, soooooo I think I'm making a logical choice here with the part to utilize. It serves as a phylactery like how liches work, so if I'm destroyed, it can grow into another me! I think that's worth it. :D

Just think of it, making your own pets and your idea of a phylactery is really great too. I so hope, we can play a Tzimisce one day, they are my favorite Sabbat clan.
It could probably be difficult to make, because of the limitations of CC. But maybe, you can get new options in the CC as you progress in fleshcrafting, being able to open your CC menu after every level of fc to change your appearance. As with ghouls, maybe two or three different forms to choose ...

It's purty awesome and here is the power itself, quoted from V5: "THE BODY IMPOLITIC
Arguably the most ghoulish of Vicissitude’s gifts, The Body Impolitic allows the user to invest a portion of her sentience in the flesh of her body, then sever it from the trunk to do the Tzimisce’s bidding.
■ Cost: One or more Hunger
■ System: By infusing an extremity with blood, the Tzimisce gives it awareness and a life of its own. Only one Hunger level worth of blood is required, though some body parts can be gifted with more; the smallest of extremities (eyes, tongue, etc.) can hold only one, but a limb may hold two or three depending on where it is severed, the head can hold three, and the trunk can hold as much as five. This becomes independent Hunger Tracks, meaning they can make their own Rouse Checks. Once imbued with awareness, the Tzimisce can then remove the extremity (Dexterity + Body Crafts to do so without inflicting one level of Superficial damage upon herself) and set it free to do her bidding. When needed, an extremity can tear itself free from the main body; doing so requires two rounds and deals the usual level of Superficial damage to the body. The Tzimisce can have as many servitor “parts” as she has extremities to use (and Blood to fuel them). While a body part is detached and still sentient, the Tzimisce cannot regrow it. Disembodied parts are always aware of all other parts of itself, but otherwise have only the sensory input normally available to them. Some Tzimisce will use Vicissitude to craft additional sensory organs onto these extremities to give them the tools to perform specific tasks (mouths and tongues to deliver messages, eyes to spy with, and so on). The master can use Disciplines through a disembodied extremity, but only if that body part can fulfill the Discipline’s requirements (that is, it must have an unfilled Hunger track to fuel the Discipline, must be able to make eye contact if that’s a requirement of the Discipline, etc.) If an extremity fills its Hunger track, it withers into nothingness moments after doing so. Independent extremities have one health level each. They are almost preternaturally aware of danger and gain three dots in Athletics. If an extremity is destroyed, it can be recreated by spending a Hunger's worth of Blood and successfully using Transmogrify the Mortal Clay and Rend the Osseous Frame to shape a replacement. So long as the Tzimisce has a living extremity tucked away somewhere, she can’t fully be killed and may be able to reconstruct herself given time. Reconnecting an Extremity slakes hunger equal to the amount of unfilled boxes on its Hunger track.
■ Duration: Indefinite"
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 19, 2019, 07:31:35 pm
Technically you can with the Antitribu mod for Bloodlines. Bu tI get, what you mean and I agree. I so would love to play a Tzimisce

Only mod I've honestly gave up to is Wesp's, and only because it enhances the main experience of Bloodlines.

Just a personal preference though. Hooray for the modding community in general, it's just not my cup of tea.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 19, 2019, 07:57:55 pm
I think we can rule out the Assamite, The Ministry and particularly the Tzimsce.

Man I will not allow myself to die until I play Tzimisce on a VTM videogame.

Technically you can with the Antitribu mod for Bloodlines. Bu tI get, what you mean and I agree. I so would love to play a Tzimisce

Same here. However, I think the devs won't allow me to remove the body part I wanted to remove and make a fiendish pet with legs, teeth, and eyes that I wanted to make as described elsewhere in the forum. I mean if I'm a Tzimisce, I don't need that on me and all. I'm not exactly going to remove my hands, arms, or legs, and Tzimisce humanity is usually too low for sex to be possible or even a consideration, soooooo I think I'm making a logical choice here with the part to utilize. It serves as a phylactery like how liches work, so if I'm destroyed, it can grow into another me! I think that's worth it. :D

Just think of it, making your own pets and your idea of a phylactery is really great too. I so hope, we can play a Tzimisce one day, they are my favorite Sabbat clan.
It could probably be difficult to make, because of the limitations of CC. But maybe, you can get new options in the CC as you progress in fleshcrafting, being able to open your CC menu after every level of fc to change your appearance. As with ghouls, maybe two or three different forms to choose ...

It's purty awesome and here is the power itself, quoted from V5: "THE BODY IMPOLITIC
Arguably the most ghoulish of Vicissitude’s gifts, The Body Impolitic allows the user to invest a portion of her sentience in the flesh of her body, then sever it from the trunk to do the Tzimisce’s bidding.
■ Cost: One or more Hunger
■ System: By infusing an extremity with blood, the Tzimisce gives it awareness and a life of its own. Only one Hunger level worth of blood is required, though some body parts can be gifted with more; the smallest of extremities (eyes, tongue, etc.) can hold only one, but a limb may hold two or three depending on where it is severed, the head can hold three, and the trunk can hold as much as five. This becomes independent Hunger Tracks, meaning they can make their own Rouse Checks. Once imbued with awareness, the Tzimisce can then remove the extremity (Dexterity + Body Crafts to do so without inflicting one level of Superficial damage upon herself) and set it free to do her bidding. When needed, an extremity can tear itself free from the main body; doing so requires two rounds and deals the usual level of Superficial damage to the body. The Tzimisce can have as many servitor “parts” as she has extremities to use (and Blood to fuel them). While a body part is detached and still sentient, the Tzimisce cannot regrow it. Disembodied parts are always aware of all other parts of itself, but otherwise have only the sensory input normally available to them. Some Tzimisce will use Vicissitude to craft additional sensory organs onto these extremities to give them the tools to perform specific tasks (mouths and tongues to deliver messages, eyes to spy with, and so on). The master can use Disciplines through a disembodied extremity, but only if that body part can fulfill the Discipline’s requirements (that is, it must have an unfilled Hunger track to fuel the Discipline, must be able to make eye contact if that’s a requirement of the Discipline, etc.) If an extremity fills its Hunger track, it withers into nothingness moments after doing so. Independent extremities have one health level each. They are almost preternaturally aware of danger and gain three dots in Athletics. If an extremity is destroyed, it can be recreated by spending a Hunger's worth of Blood and successfully using Transmogrify the Mortal Clay and Rend the Osseous Frame to shape a replacement. So long as the Tzimisce has a living extremity tucked away somewhere, she can’t fully be killed and may be able to reconstruct herself given time. Reconnecting an Extremity slakes hunger equal to the amount of unfilled boxes on its Hunger track.
■ Duration: Indefinite"

Sounds awesome - I want that. YOu can feel like Voldemort with his Horcruxes, except that your Horcruxes can perform tasks for you XD
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 19, 2019, 08:01:49 pm
I think we can rule out the Assamite, The Ministry and particularly the Tzimsce.

Man I will not allow myself to die until I play Tzimisce on a VTM videogame.

Technically you can with the Antitribu mod for Bloodlines. Bu tI get, what you mean and I agree. I so would love to play a Tzimisce

Same here. However, I think the devs won't allow me to remove the body part I wanted to remove and make a fiendish pet with legs, teeth, and eyes that I wanted to make as described elsewhere in the forum. I mean if I'm a Tzimisce, I don't need that on me and all. I'm not exactly going to remove my hands, arms, or legs, and Tzimisce humanity is usually too low for sex to be possible or even a consideration, soooooo I think I'm making a logical choice here with the part to utilize. It serves as a phylactery like how liches work, so if I'm destroyed, it can grow into another me! I think that's worth it. :D

Just think of it, making your own pets and your idea of a phylactery is really great too. I so hope, we can play a Tzimisce one day, they are my favorite Sabbat clan.
It could probably be difficult to make, because of the limitations of CC. But maybe, you can get new options in the CC as you progress in fleshcrafting, being able to open your CC menu after every level of fc to change your appearance. As with ghouls, maybe two or three different forms to choose ...

It's purty awesome and here is the power itself, quoted from V5: "THE BODY IMPOLITIC
Arguably the most ghoulish of Vicissitude’s gifts, The Body Impolitic allows the user to invest a portion of her sentience in the flesh of her body, then sever it from the trunk to do the Tzimisce’s bidding.
■ Cost: One or more Hunger
■ System: By infusing an extremity with blood, the Tzimisce gives it awareness and a life of its own. Only one Hunger level worth of blood is required, though some body parts can be gifted with more; the smallest of extremities (eyes, tongue, etc.) can hold only one, but a limb may hold two or three depending on where it is severed, the head can hold three, and the trunk can hold as much as five. This becomes independent Hunger Tracks, meaning they can make their own Rouse Checks. Once imbued with awareness, the Tzimisce can then remove the extremity (Dexterity + Body Crafts to do so without inflicting one level of Superficial damage upon herself) and set it free to do her bidding. When needed, an extremity can tear itself free from the main body; doing so requires two rounds and deals the usual level of Superficial damage to the body. The Tzimisce can have as many servitor “parts” as she has extremities to use (and Blood to fuel them). While a body part is detached and still sentient, the Tzimisce cannot regrow it. Disembodied parts are always aware of all other parts of itself, but otherwise have only the sensory input normally available to them. Some Tzimisce will use Vicissitude to craft additional sensory organs onto these extremities to give them the tools to perform specific tasks (mouths and tongues to deliver messages, eyes to spy with, and so on). The master can use Disciplines through a disembodied extremity, but only if that body part can fulfill the Discipline’s requirements (that is, it must have an unfilled Hunger track to fuel the Discipline, must be able to make eye contact if that’s a requirement of the Discipline, etc.) If an extremity fills its Hunger track, it withers into nothingness moments after doing so. Independent extremities have one health level each. They are almost preternaturally aware of danger and gain three dots in Athletics. If an extremity is destroyed, it can be recreated by spending a Hunger's worth of Blood and successfully using Transmogrify the Mortal Clay and Rend the Osseous Frame to shape a replacement. So long as the Tzimisce has a living extremity tucked away somewhere, she can’t fully be killed and may be able to reconstruct herself given time. Reconnecting an Extremity slakes hunger equal to the amount of unfilled boxes on its Hunger track.
■ Duration: Indefinite"

Sounds awesome - I want that. YOu can feel like Voldemort with his Horcruxes, except that your Horcruxes can perform tasks for you XD

And my Horcrux is a wiener. :D  #maturity
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 20, 2019, 12:14:54 pm


And my Horcrux is a wiener. :D  #maturity

Thanks for that picture in my mind. Now I have a walking 'wiener' before my inner eye XD
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 20, 2019, 12:45:30 pm


And my Horcrux is a wiener. :D  #maturity

Thanks for that picture in my mind. Now I have a walking 'wiener' before my inner eye XD

You're welcome. With centipede legs, eyes, and serrated teeth. XD
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 12:23:03 am
You're welcome. With centipede legs, eyes, and serrated teeth. XD

The possibilities are just endless with the Tzimisce ! Insect penises for everybody !
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 12:38:23 am
You're welcome. With centipede legs, eyes, and serrated teeth. XD

The possibilities are just endless with the Tzimisce ! Insect penises for everybody !

I know, right? Fylimar can even give herself an insect penis minion. Now THAT'S equality of opportunity right there. XD
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 01:05:13 am
I know, right? Fylimar can even give herself an insect penis minion. Now THAT'S equality of opportunity right there. XD

You understand now xD !

Depending on the success of the game and the feedback it receives, I do believe it might be very possible to have antitribu clans...

...then again, are we even playing FOR the camarilla in this game ? What if all those fancy vampires we've been seeing are sabbat ? Why haven't we asked ourselves that ?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 02:05:58 am
I know, right? Fylimar can even give herself an insect penis minion. Now THAT'S equality of opportunity right there. XD

You understand now xD !

Depending on the success of the game and the feedback it receives, I do believe it might be very possible to have antitribu clans...

...then again, are we even playing FOR the camarilla in this game ? What if all those fancy vampires we've been seeing are sabbat ? Why haven't we asked ourselves that ?

Oh, I've already been wondering if the lady in green in the trailer might be Sabbat. Could be a Lasombra or something.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 02:34:28 am
Thanks for that picture in my mind. Now I have a walking 'wiener' before my inner eye XD

*Nodding head understandingly*  I've had that happen before. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 03:39:29 am
Oh, I've already been wondering if the lady in green in the trailer might be Sabbat. Could be a Lasombra or something.

Well... we must be either Camarilla or Anarchs obligatorily since we have a Masquerade system in place. So there's that.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 06:19:57 am
Oh, I've already been wondering if the lady in green in the trailer might be Sabbat. Could be a Lasombra or something.

Well... we must be either Camarilla or Anarchs obligatorily since we have a Masquerade system in place. So there's that.

You'd be surprised how much the Sabbat adhere to the Masquerade. They won't say that, of course, and they'll reveal their nature to others when it's beneficial, but overall, the Sabbat keep their existence as Kindred secret from mortals. Bloodlines 1 doesn't give the best representation of what Sabbat are like in the World of Darkness...as far as their secrecy, anyway. Yes, some are idiots, but humanity would be very aware of Kindred if the Sabbat didn't keep what they are from the majority of mortals.

Our "Masquerade Violations" in Bloodlines 2 could just be a scale of how aware Hunters and Camarilla Kindred are of your presence and their presence trying to take you out.

Or perhaps we'll be Sabbat double agents for the lady in green or some other character.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 21, 2019, 06:45:46 am
Oh, I've already been wondering if the lady in green in the trailer might be Sabbat. Could be a Lasombra or something.

Well... we must be either Camarilla or Anarchs obligatorily since we have a Masquerade system in place. So there's that.

You'd be surprised how much the Sabbat adhere to the Masquerade. They won't say that, of course, and they'll reveal their nature to others when it's beneficial, but overall, the Sabbat keep their existence as Kindred secret from mortals. Bloodlines 1 doesn't give the best representation of what Sabbat are like in the World of Darkness...as far as their secrecy, anyway. Yes, some are idiots, but humanity would be very aware of Kindred if the Sabbat didn't keep what they are from the majority of mortals.

Our "Masquerade Violations" in Bloodlines 2 could just be a scale of how aware Hunters and Camarilla Kindred are of your presence and their presence trying to take you out.

Or perhaps we'll be Sabbat double agents for the lady in green or some other character.

Interesting... then again I just read the Bloodlines Wiki and it expressly says:

"The Sabbat is an organization of cainites who reject the Traditions. Unlike the Camarilla, the Sabbat believe in the existence of the Antediluvians and Caine. The sect rejects The Masquerade, and instead revel in their superior power, often resulting in extreme violence"

If all of that is true then it seems less likely that we'd play a sabbat agent in BL2.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on May 21, 2019, 10:21:57 am
I think the developers already said that this time you will have more choice in what faction you align with...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 21, 2019, 10:29:07 am
You're welcome. With centipede legs, eyes, and serrated teeth. XD

The possibilities are just endless with the Tzimisce ! Insect penises for everybody !

I know, right? Fylimar can even give herself an insect penis minion. Now THAT'S equality of opportunity right there. XD

I'm very tempted. I play  a Tzimisce in our Sabbat campaign and he loves to experiment... the possibilities ;)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 21, 2019, 10:32:47 am
It would be great, if Sabbat could be an option. I wondered too, if the lady in green could be a Sabbat agent
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 21, 2019, 01:04:15 pm
It would be great, if Sabbat could be an option. I wondered too, if the lady in green could be a Sabbat agent

I will be surprised if they don't include the Sabbat, although as far as I know, they're supposed to be off in the East hunting or attacking the Antediluvians.  But maybe there is a stray pocket of them in Seattle.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 21, 2019, 10:57:25 pm
Oh, I've already been wondering if the lady in green in the trailer might be Sabbat. Could be a Lasombra or something.

Well... we must be either Camarilla or Anarchs obligatorily since we have a Masquerade system in place. So there's that.

You'd be surprised how much the Sabbat adhere to the Masquerade. They won't say that, of course, and they'll reveal their nature to others when it's beneficial, but overall, the Sabbat keep their existence as Kindred secret from mortals. Bloodlines 1 doesn't give the best representation of what Sabbat are like in the World of Darkness...as far as their secrecy, anyway. Yes, some are idiots, but humanity would be very aware of Kindred if the Sabbat didn't keep what they are from the majority of mortals.

Our "Masquerade Violations" in Bloodlines 2 could just be a scale of how aware Hunters and Camarilla Kindred are of your presence and their presence trying to take you out.

Or perhaps we'll be Sabbat double agents for the lady in green or some other character.

Interesting... then again I just read the Bloodlines Wiki and it expressly says:

"The Sabbat is an organization of cainites who reject the Traditions. Unlike the Camarilla, the Sabbat believe in the existence of the Antediluvians and Caine. The sect rejects The Masquerade, and instead revel in their superior power, often resulting in extreme violence"

If all of that is true then it seems less likely that we'd play a sabbat agent in BL2.

Yeah, the Bloodlines Wiki is just based on what is said in the first Bloodlines, I suppose. Here is from the VtM Wiki, which would be more accurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire:_The_Masquerade

The Masquerade[edit]
In Vampire: The Masquerade, the Masquerade refers to an organized conspiracy primarily orchestrated by the Camarilla to convince the general public that vampires do not exist. The Camarilla believes the Masquerade is the cornerstone survival strategy for Kindred and fear that without it the kine would rise up and exterminate all the undead.[8]:14, 22, 33
Prohibitions against exposing the existence of Kindred existed prior to the 15th century in a set of ancient laws known as the Traditions. The First Tradition reads:
"Thou shall not reveal thy true nature to those not of the Blood. Doing such shall renounce thy claims of Blood."[8]:22-23
This stricture was not consistently nor as strictly enforced until the Inquisition of the 15th century required it. During this period vampires were destroyed in large numbers by vampire hunters which largely prompted the formation of a sect known as the Camarilla whose primary purpose was to promote and enforce the Masquerade as a means of survival.[8]:38
The Masquerade is largely enforced through self-policing, but it is primarily the job of the Prince in Camarilla controlled cities to enforce it. Princes may use any means at their disposal to ensure vampire society stays hidden and that those who break the Masquerade are duly punished. Punishments for breaches have a range but are usually draconian in nature due to the seriousness of the Masquerade. Final Death, often by means of a ritualized "Blood Hunt" by other vampires, is not uncommon. When breaches do occur, the Camarilla takes great pains to repair them. This could include anything from erasing mortal's memories using supernatural powers to manipulating mortal pawns in order to keep events out of the media.[8]:38-39
The Masquerade is one of the main in-game points of contention between the two major factions of vampires in the World of Darkness. While many vampires see the pragmatism in the Masquerade some do not agree with it. For example, the Sabbat do not uphold the Tradition that justifies the enforcement of the Masquerade but behind closed doors even they take some steps to contain breaches.

The underlined part shows that they do prevent Masquerade violations. They're just looser about it than the Anarchs and much looser about it than the Camarilla. Technically, many members of the Camarilla would probably reeeeeally love for you to kill Yukie. After all, she's not "of the blood" (i.e. a ghoul or a Kindred), so her knowing about Kindred is forbidden shit that merits her death. Stuff like that is why I have since fallen a bit out of love with the Camarilla. Yukie is my test for ethics. Look at that cute girl who knows about vampires and leaves me the hell alone unless I do super douchebag stuff. Would you kill her? Then I do not want any part of your cause. =/
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Pumma on May 22, 2019, 04:30:25 am
The PC is a victim of mass embrace - a practice used by the Sabbat and usually they attack as packs, so the PC will be turn to vampire by the Sabbat and we could expect that some Sabbat clans could be included as playing option. The Sabbat will be in the game in one form or another but most probably the PC will start as Caitiff and then choose what tasks to take and to whom to align except that it seem that there will be a mysterious Kindred who will help and direct the PC.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 22, 2019, 04:42:42 am
I think the developers already said that this time you will have more choice in what faction you align with...

Damn you Lacroix... I might be going Camarilla if that's the way it is.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Nanaloma on May 22, 2019, 06:02:11 am
I think the developers already said that this time you will have more choice in what faction you align with...

Damn you Lacroix... I might be going Camarilla if that's the way it is.

Going Camarilla was one of my usual two endings even if the ending, moving the sarcophagus into a warehouse - did they kill all of those who moved it to keep the secret? - was lame.  My favorite was going independent (giving the middle finger to Nines was so fulfilling!)  :)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 22, 2019, 08:12:46 am
I think the developers already said that this time you will have more choice in what faction you align with...

Damn you Lacroix... I might be going Camarilla if that's the way it is.

Going Camarilla was one of my usual two endings even if the ending, moving the sarcophagus into a warehouse - did they kill all of those who moved it to keep the secret? - was lame.  My favorite was going independent (giving the middle finger to Nines was so fulfilling!)  :)

Tremere have Dominate, so Strauss could just erase the specific memories of transporting the sarcophagus from their minds. In fact, he can rewrite specific parts of their memories as he pleases. Dominate is reeeeeeally cool in the pen and paper.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 23, 2019, 04:51:04 am
I think the developers already said that this time you will have more choice in what faction you align with...

Damn you Lacroix... I might be going Camarilla if that's the way it is.

Going Camarilla was one of my usual two endings even if the ending, moving the sarcophagus into a warehouse - did they kill all of those who moved it to keep the secret? - was lame.  My favorite was going independent (giving the middle finger to Nines was so fulfilling!)  :)

There's truly nothing like going independent. That middle finger also made the game for me.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 24, 2019, 08:05:19 pm
I think the developers already said that this time you will have more choice in what faction you align with...

Damn you Lacroix... I might be going Camarilla if that's the way it is.

Going Camarilla was one of my usual two endings even if the ending, moving the sarcophagus into a warehouse - did they kill all of those who moved it to keep the secret? - was lame.  My favorite was going independent (giving the middle finger to Nines was so fulfilling!)  :)

There's truly nothing like going independent. That middle finger also made the game for me.

I have never tried this option in all these years.  Hmmm.  May have to give it a ago. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 24, 2019, 10:23:59 pm
I did choose the independent option in my first playthrough as a Gangrel. I thought, it fitted the clan I choosed in general and my character especially. SHe took a leaf from Becketts book :)
My second character was a Tremere and I did go with the Strauss ending. After that as Malk and Nossi I did the Anarch ending, since I was spoiled by then, I luckily never sided with Lacroix or Ming Xiao. All the other endings were great.
With the UP plus, I sided with Andrei and the Sabbat in the end, which I liked too
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on May 24, 2019, 10:40:25 pm
With the UP plus, I sided with Andrei and the Sabbat in the end, which I liked too

You should go with the Anarchs on the UP plus to see the beautiful Chateau Hotel!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 24, 2019, 10:51:18 pm
I did choose the independent option in my first playthrough as a Gangrel. I thought, it fitted the clan I choosed in general and my character especially. SHe took a leaf from Becketts book :)
My second character was a Tremere and I did go with the Strauss ending. After that as Malk and Nossi I did the Anarch ending, since I was spoiled by then, I luckily never sided with Lacroix or Ming Xiao. All the other endings were great.
With the UP plus, I sided with Andrei and the Sabbat in the end, which I liked too

I have sided with Lacroix and Ming just to see what would happen (complete suckage) but otherwise I tend to pick the Anarchs or Camarilla through Strauss.

With the UP plus, I sided with Andrei and the Sabbat in the end, which I liked too

You should go with the Anarchs on the UP plus to see the beautiful Chateau Hotel!

That must be new since I last sided with them, so I will have to try that myself!  When did you implement that? 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 24, 2019, 11:06:30 pm
With the UP plus, I sided with Andrei and the Sabbat in the end, which I liked too

You should go with the Anarchs on the UP plus to see the beautiful Chateau Hotel!

I planned on going with the anarchs on my Malkavian playthrough. I had put it aside for the CQM playthrough for now, but I will definitely finish it
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 25, 2019, 04:52:11 am
I have sided with Lacroix and Ming just to see what would happen (complete suckage) but otherwise I tend to pick the Anarchs or Camarilla through Strauss.

What about beautiful lonelynesssssss ?!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 05:41:40 am
I have sided with Lacroix and Ming just to see what would happen (complete suckage) but otherwise I tend to pick the Anarchs or Camarilla through Strauss.

What about beautiful lonelynesssssss ?!

I am a social animal as are my Ventrue and Tremere.  lol
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on May 25, 2019, 09:40:58 am
That must be new since I last sided with them, so I will have to try that myself!  When did you implement that?

It was added in 9.7 two years ago, but it's probably the most beautiful new map, build by EntenSchreck for the Prelude :)!
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 11:41:57 am
That must be new since I last sided with them, so I will have to try that myself!  When did you implement that?

It was added in 9.7 two years ago, but it's probably the most beautiful new map, build by EntenSchreck for the Prelude :)!

Very nice.  Yep, gonna give it a try.  I love finding the new things you add to the Plus Patch.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 25, 2019, 06:10:56 pm
I have sided with Lacroix and Ming just to see what would happen (complete suckage) but otherwise I tend to pick the Anarchs or Camarilla through Strauss.

What about beautiful lonelynesssssss ?!

I am a social animal as are my Ventrue and Tremere.  lol

Speaking of your Ventrue, Victor, the Ventrue player in the LA By Night tabletop campaign on YouTube is named "Victor." He's prolly my favorite player character in the bunch. =p
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 10:13:08 pm
I have sided with Lacroix and Ming just to see what would happen (complete suckage) but otherwise I tend to pick the Anarchs or Camarilla through Strauss.

What about beautiful lonelynesssssss ?!

I am a social animal as are my Ventrue and Tremere.  lol

Speaking of your Ventrue, Victor, the Ventrue player in the LA By Night tabletop campaign on YouTube is named "Victor." He's prolly my favorite player character in the bunch. =p

Because Victor RULES.  Surely you had to know this? 

You know, the first time I did the Giovanni quest and I was asked for my name and I was able to say "Victor" and they said my name out loud I was a bit startled.  LOL  Then I remembered that I was "borrowing" the identity of another character.  But it worked for me.  It was fun to hear my vamp's name repeated in the game out loud. 
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 26, 2019, 12:13:57 am
I have sided with Lacroix and Ming just to see what would happen (complete suckage) but otherwise I tend to pick the Anarchs or Camarilla through Strauss.

What about beautiful lonelynesssssss ?!

I am a social animal as are my Ventrue and Tremere.  lol

Speaking of your Ventrue, Victor, the Ventrue player in the LA By Night tabletop campaign on YouTube is named "Victor." He's prolly my favorite player character in the bunch. =p

Because Victor RULES.  Surely you had to know this? 

You know, the first time I did the Giovanni quest and I was asked for my name and I was able to say "Victor" and they said my name out loud I was a bit startled.  LOL  Then I remembered that I was "borrowing" the identity of another character.  But it worked for me.  It was fun to hear my vamp's name repeated in the game out loud.

Haha, that had to be disconcerting.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 26, 2019, 02:21:13 pm
I have sided with Lacroix and Ming just to see what would happen (complete suckage) but otherwise I tend to pick the Anarchs or Camarilla through Strauss.

What about beautiful lonelynesssssss ?!

I am a social animal as are my Ventrue and Tremere.  lol

Speaking of your Ventrue, Victor, the Ventrue player in the LA By Night tabletop campaign on YouTube is named "Victor." He's prolly my favorite player character in the bunch. =p

Because Victor RULES.  Surely you had to know this? 

You know, the first time I did the Giovanni quest and I was asked for my name and I was able to say "Victor" and they said my name out loud I was a bit startled.  LOL  Then I remembered that I was "borrowing" the identity of another character.  But it worked for me.  It was fun to hear my vamp's name repeated in the game out loud.

Haha, that had to be disconcerting.

It was! 

A more disconcerting experience for me though was the time I was playing Black & White from Lionhead, the original game and I got to the final world.  See, I actually used my real name as my god's name and out of nowhere while I was minding my own business, doing my thing, I heard this creepy whisper of my name.  Startled the hell out of me.  It would just happen periodically.  I finally realized that it was an Easter egg feature of the game.  Several real names were anticipated and recorded in that eerie whisper (nowhere near as many as were done with Codsworth in Fallout 4, mind you). I tested it too by trying other real names and some of them also got whispered.  But yeah that first time it happened I about jumped out of my skin and 3 feet into the air.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkProphet on May 26, 2019, 04:05:30 pm
I have sided with Lacroix and Ming just to see what would happen (complete suckage) but otherwise I tend to pick the Anarchs or Camarilla through Strauss.

What about beautiful lonelynesssssss ?!

I am a social animal as are my Ventrue and Tremere.  lol

Speaking of your Ventrue, Victor, the Ventrue player in the LA By Night tabletop campaign on YouTube is named "Victor." He's prolly my favorite player character in the bunch. =p

Because Victor RULES.  Surely you had to know this? 

You know, the first time I did the Giovanni quest and I was asked for my name and I was able to say "Victor" and they said my name out loud I was a bit startled.  LOL  Then I remembered that I was "borrowing" the identity of another character.  But it worked for me.  It was fun to hear my vamp's name repeated in the game out loud.

Haha, that had to be disconcerting.

It was! 

A more disconcerting experience for me though was the time I was playing Black & White from Lionhead, the original game and I got to the final world.  See, I actually used my real name as my god's name and out of nowhere while I was minding my own business, doing my thing, I heard this creepy whisper of my name.  Startled the hell out of me.  It would just happen periodically.  I finally realized that it was an Easter egg feature of the game.  Several real names were anticipated and recorded in that eerie whisper (nowhere near as many as were done with Codsworth in Fallout 4, mind you). I tested it too by trying other real names and some of them also got whispered.  But yeah that first time it happened I about jumped out of my skin and 3 feet into the air.

That would have given me goosebumps.

Have you played Doki Doki Literature club? That game does some creepy shit which I can't quite reference lest I spoil too much. It looks really dumb and can be a teensy bit boring for the first ~hour, but shit gets very interesting in my opinion, and only gets more interesting the further in you go. It's free as well, so that's a plus.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 26, 2019, 08:20:55 pm
I am a social animal as are my Ventrue and Tremere.  lol

I think I'd pick the Camarilla + Strauss if I didn't pick "complete lonelyness". That Strauss dude seemed pretty cool.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 26, 2019, 09:30:54 pm
That would have given me goosebumps.

Have you played Doki Doki Literature club? That game does some creepy shit which I can't quite reference lest I spoil too much. It looks really dumb and can be a teensy bit boring for the first ~hour, but shit gets very interesting in my opinion, and only gets more interesting the further in you go. It's free as well, so that's a plus.

Never played it but I am gonna have to look that up now as I love creepiness.  Especially if I am aware its going to happen. 

I am a social animal as are my Ventrue and Tremere.  lol

I think I'd pick the Camarilla + Strauss if I didn't pick "complete lonelyness". That Strauss dude seemed pretty cool.

I agree.  I think he takes the LA Camarilla in a much better direction than LaCroix was taking it. 

Speaking of him, the Bloodlines Fan wiki seems to think that Strauss and VV have something going because of the way she blew him a kiss and he seemed to kind of wave at her.  What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 26, 2019, 09:44:00 pm
Speaking of him, the Bloodlines Fan wiki seems to think that Strauss and VV have something going because of the way she blew him a kiss and he seemed to kind of wave at her.  What are your thoughts?

That scene is just hilariously ruined for me. Everytime I see it I think of this:

(https://imgur.com/a/EK5k7Sa)

With the music as well.

I think she wanted to seduce him but failed to do so, I can't imagine the Tremere involving themselves with anyone from another clan. Of course, there's every type of person in every type of kindred clan but Strauss like the sexless type xD ...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Wesp5 on May 26, 2019, 09:59:27 pm
I think she wanted to seduce him but failed to do so, I can't imagine the Tremere involving themselves with anyone from another clan.

I think she just wanted to provoke him, which is why she is wearing her working clothes to this meeting as well :)! And he waves it off...
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 26, 2019, 10:20:44 pm
I think she wanted to seduce him but failed to do so, I can't imagine the Tremere involving themselves with anyone from another clan.

I think she just wanted to provoke him, which is why she is wearing her working clothes to this meeting as well :)! And he waves it off...

I think either one of you is closer to the truth than "They are in a relationship".  LOL  I never got that either so when I read that in the wiki, I was like "Huh?"  lol
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on May 27, 2019, 11:52:19 am
I think she wanted to seduce him but failed to do so, I can't imagine the Tremere involving themselves with anyone from another clan.

I think she just wanted to provoke him, which is why she is wearing her working clothes to this meeting as well :)! And he waves it off...

I agree, I think she tried to provoke him and he reacted politely annoyed.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: fylimar on August 24, 2019, 10:28:33 pm
I'm really stupid. I just now, after playing Pillars of Eternity for quite a while, that it is made by Paradox. Well, if Bloodlines 2 turns out as good as POE, I'm happy
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on August 26, 2019, 03:06:43 am
I'm really stupid. I just now, after playing Pillars of Eternity for quite a while, that it is made by Paradox. Well, if Bloodlines 2 turns out as good as POE, I'm happy

Paradox is a good publisher, though we should keep our eyes open a little more closely for Hardsuit Labs.
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: thewarsend on January 06, 2020, 12:40:47 am
I'm really stupid. I just now, after playing Pillars of Eternity for quite a while, that it is made by Paradox. Well, if Bloodlines 2 turns out as good as POE, I'm happy

They also made Cities: Skylines. Despite being a DLC nightmare, it is still a great game.

I think they are going to make an epic game :)
Title: Re: IT FINALLY HAPPENED
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 06, 2020, 03:23:13 am
I think they are going to make an epic game :)

Goddamn right they are !
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