Author Topic: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?  (Read 2560 times)

Offline Barabbah

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2019, 10:51:38 AM »
The romances are one of my favorite aspects of those games.  In The Witcher series I stanned Geralt and Triss.  I never have gone the Yennefer route yet.

If you like your women sexy and castrating, then Yen's your chick !

Eh? Yen who?
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me (on changing my mind on deleting cheeks for a mod)

Offline Barabbah

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2019, 10:53:28 AM »
Wait, you saw the demo of Bloodlines 2?

Yes, Paradox contacted me end of January to show the beginning of the game via a web session. But I wasn't allowed to say anything until the announcement!

Can you share everything you saw now? I bet a lot of people (including me) would like to hear more about it. I have read a few articles, but I value your thoughts quite a bit, so if you can say more, please do. ^_^

IF there's something you're allowed to talk about :P
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me (on changing my mind on deleting cheeks for a mod)

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 5829
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2019, 12:01:38 PM »
Can you share everything you saw now?

I don't really know. The NDA I signed goes for 3 years, but I guess I can confirm what others already did. I was shown the beginning of the game which is pretty much as it was described in magazines and webpages. You start off as victim of a mass embrace, end up in a court because of this which get's firebombed so you escape. During that time you can test the three basic thinblood disciplines that are described and decide with which one you will go. You'll be contacted by a female pointing you to the pier, where you meet another vampire who points you to your haven, where you'll meet Dale who is really funny and pure Mitsoda genius! After that they had some technical problems so I didn't see the Seattle hub that the press saw.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 12:03:50 PM by Wesp5 »
Informative Informative x 3 View List

Offline mdqp

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2019, 12:21:01 PM »
I don't really know. The NDA I signed goes for 3 years, but I guess I can confirm what others already did. I was shown the beginning of the game which is pretty much as it was described in magazines and webpages. You start off as victim of a mass embrace, end up in a court because of this which get's firebombed so you escape. During that time you can test the three basic thinblood disciplines that are described and decide with which one you will go. You'll be contacted by a female pointing you to the pier, where you meet another vampire who points you to your haven, where you'll meet Dale who is really funny and pure Mitsoda genius! After that they had some technical problems so I didn't see the Seattle hub that the press saw.

You know, this isn't much, but it's already enough to get me hyped all over again. I really wish this turns out great, the wait is going to kill me. I guess I'll have a chance to try out all the mods I didn't experience so far. XD

Weirdly enough, I am also pretty excited to play a not-so-junky Bloodline game, I really hope they do a good job on the technical side. Getting stuck while walking for no obvious reason (because I snagged against some invisible thing or another, especially in the warrens) is pretty annoying, and the AI is disgustingly unresponsive at times in the old Bloodlines (they'll never figure out these damn doors... XD).

Speaking of which, the patch included with GOG is not the plus version, right? There is no shortcut to skip the sewers unless I use the other one, I assume. I am considering doing multiple runs, and that part of the game can drag for too long (I don't really mind it as much as others do, because it's a nice "trial" if you have been focusing on non-combat abilities, but it's just that the level design and enemy distribution is often more clunky than challenging, and after a couple of runs, I can see myself getting tired of it).

Offline TF Alex Burton

  • Formally known as the Shadow Man
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 717
    • Terror Firma by Alex Burton
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2019, 01:57:21 PM »
I'm hopefully for the mod support out of the box they are promising. That way if there's anything I vehemently dislike hopefully this will prove as way to remove it from my game.

Offline Wesp5

  • Administratrix
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 5829
  • Unofficial Patcher
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2019, 02:33:56 PM »
Speaking of which, the patch included with GOG is not the plus version, right?

Yes, the GOG version only included the basic patch.
Informative Informative x 1 View List

Offline Zanderat

  • Fledgling
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2019, 02:44:29 PM »
The romances are one of my favorite aspects of those games.  In The Witcher series I stanned Geralt and Triss.  I never have gone the Yennefer route yet.

If you like your women sexy and castrating, then Yen's your chick !

Eh? Yen who?
Team Triss here!

Offline Barabbah

  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2019, 03:30:20 PM »
Ooooook, googling Team Triss I found out you were talking of Witcher....
"Some quotations," said Zellaby, "are greatly improved by lack of context."
― John Wyndham, The Midwich Cuckoos
"fuck the hole in the face"
― me (on changing my mind on deleting cheeks for a mod)

Offline DarkZephyr

  • Caine's Plaything
  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 324
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2019, 09:29:01 PM »
The romances are one of my favorite aspects of those games.  In The Witcher series I stanned Geralt and Triss.  I never have gone the Yennefer route yet.

If you like your women sexy and castrating, then Yen's your chick !

LOL I agree.  Yen is certainly beautiful.  But Triss is lovely as well and she just seems to care more about Geralt and respect him a lot more and he has a lot of respect for her as well.  He loves Yen but she seems to also get on his last nerve and for good reason.  She can be a bit of a bully.

Dark Zephyr said, "I know that for some people "safe space" is a term of dread, ---- ".  Well, yes we do.  From what I can tell, it's a place where people who think and act alike and consider anything different as wrong go to hide in a bubble from reality.  Generally, a writer's personal biases come out in their work and that sort of thinking, if rampant, could sink a dark project.  However, that doesn't mean it will be rampant.  Again, I hope but I don't expect.

For some people "safe space" isn't really about avoiding people that they consider wrong, its more like a way to take a break from those who think *they're* wrong or somehow less than simply for existing.  While I don't use the term "safe space" myself, because I think its way overused and politicized, as a gay man, I do feel like I can relax and be myself in a gay bar more than I would a straight bar.  Its not because I think straight people are "wrong" or that I want to hide in a bubble from reality.  Its that sometimes I just want to live MY reality w/out worrying that I might get beat up or something.  I don't think occasionally congregating among those like yourself is a terrible or unreasonable thing.  We tend to gladly welcome straight people into our bars and clubs who are allies or friends.

As for how she used the term, what I think she meant was that for her, the gaming world is a place to take a break from the stress of reality.  I know that it is for me too.  If I want to take a break from the current political climate or after other stressful aspects of real life, I like to whip out my laptop and play a fun game for a few hours, maybe while munching on a favorite snack.  It does wonders for my mental health.  As a woman, to be confronted with this act of rape, without being able to retain control of her PC, it probably did infringe on her little zone of mental safety there in a rather jarring way.

"Safe Space" seems to be an accurate enough term for the way that some of us use gaming.  But what term would work just as well that doesn't have all of the political baggage attached to it? 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 09:32:48 PM by DarkZephyr »

Offline El_Gostro

  • Unposting posting poster unposting postitions
  • Antediluvian
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
  • Shifting
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2019, 11:35:05 PM »

Offline DarkZephyr

  • Caine's Plaything
  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 324
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2019, 12:23:54 AM »


I have always been impressed with Southpark's high quality animation and voice acting.

Offline mdqp

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2019, 08:39:04 AM »
As for how she used the term, what I think she meant was that for her, the gaming world is a place to take a break from the stress of reality.  I know that it is for me too.  If I want to take a break from the current political climate or after other stressful aspects of real life, I like to whip out my laptop and play a fun game for a few hours, maybe while munching on a favorite snack.  It does wonders for my mental health.  As a woman, to be confronted with this act of rape, without being able to retain control of her PC, it probably did infringe on her little zone of mental safety there in a rather jarring way.

"Safe Space" seems to be an accurate enough term for the way that some of us use gaming.  But what term would work just as well that doesn't have all of the political baggage attached to it?

While I can ultimately understand (I mean, I assume almost everyone plays games for fun), I think this particular reaction was misplaced. Hotline Miami (I have yet to play the sequel, but from what I have heard and seen, it seems functionally the same) is a stylized, ultra violent game with a linear narrative (I think you can maybe learn a secret or two, but there isn't much in terms of self-expression and choices). You do horrible things constantly, so I am not so sure that's suddenly too much. Also, we are talking about a topdown 2d, ""pixel art" game, with a 3-4 seconds animation to depict the deed at most (I have found a comparison of the scenes on youtube)... Which turns out to be a scene in a movie (in-game) so it's not even happening for "real" in the game. Heck, she even acknowledges it in her preview, and of course dismisses it as too little too late. She also brings up the 1 in 5 stat, almost as if 1 in 5 women are raped, this all seems very disingenuous.

I don't know, seems like these are terrible standards to have when assessing art in general (a sculpture that is meant to represent something horrible, let's say the decay of the human body when afflicted by cancer, shouldn't be getting a rant by a critic because their father recently died of a terrible disease, or because they are sensitive to such a topic). You might argue that this scene snuck in and took her by surprise, but honestly, seems like I am really reaching now, just to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Offline DarkZephyr

  • Caine's Plaything
  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 324
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #72 on: April 18, 2019, 01:26:51 PM »
As for how she used the term, what I think she meant was that for her, the gaming world is a place to take a break from the stress of reality.  I know that it is for me too.  If I want to take a break from the current political climate or after other stressful aspects of real life, I like to whip out my laptop and play a fun game for a few hours, maybe while munching on a favorite snack.  It does wonders for my mental health.  As a woman, to be confronted with this act of rape, without being able to retain control of her PC, it probably did infringe on her little zone of mental safety there in a rather jarring way.

"Safe Space" seems to be an accurate enough term for the way that some of us use gaming.  But what term would work just as well that doesn't have all of the political baggage attached to it?

While I can ultimately understand (I mean, I assume almost everyone plays games for fun), I think this particular reaction was misplaced. Hotline Miami (I have yet to play the sequel, but from what I have heard and seen, it seems functionally the same) is a stylized, ultra violent game with a linear narrative (I think you can maybe learn a secret or two, but there isn't much in terms of self-expression and choices). You do horrible things constantly, so I am not so sure that's suddenly too much. Also, we are talking about a topdown 2d, ""pixel art" game, with a 3-4 seconds animation to depict the deed at most (I have found a comparison of the scenes on youtube)... Which turns out to be a scene in a movie (in-game) so it's not even happening for "real" in the game. Heck, she even acknowledges it in her preview, and of course dismisses it as too little too late. She also brings up the 1 in 5 stat, almost as if 1 in 5 women are raped, this all seems very disingenuous.

I don't know, seems like these are terrible standards to have when assessing art in general (a sculpture that is meant to represent something horrible, let's say the decay of the human body when afflicted by cancer, shouldn't be getting a rant by a critic because their father recently died of a terrible disease, or because they are sensitive to such a topic). You might argue that this scene snuck in and took her by surprise, but honestly, seems like I am really reaching now, just to give her the benefit of the doubt.

My stance isn't so much that she's absolutely right about Hotline Miami 2.  Its more "1. I have sympathy for how she felt about it and it doesn't cause me instant concern about the direction of VtmB2 so I am going to give the game a chance, and 2. Using "safe space" the way she was using it in this case doesn't cause me any stress, so I am going to give the game a chance".  I am still excited for the game.  Plus, if she goes somehow off the rail, I think there are other voices there to kind of say "wait a minute!" 

If her reaction to Hotline Miami 2 was knee jerk, I think so too is a reaction like "I'm not gonna touch this game at ALL because SHE'S involved!"  Not that this is what you're saying, I don't get that impression from you, but its the impression I get from what I have read from others.  I get that you are just a bit worried and concerned, and you do have every right to be worried and to voice that worry and concern.

I am just gonna come out and say it.  I think Anita Sarkeesian has made a lot of us VERY gun shy and its easy to assume that any woman involved with gaming who has an averse reaction to content like the Hotline Miami 2 thing is gonna be just like her.  Especially if they use terms like "safe space".  I can TOTALLY understand that fear, believe me.  But I don't think its necessarily true that Cara is like Anita.  I think its actually highly unlikely.  Unlike Anita, Cara Ellison is a genuine gamer with genuine gaming experience AND genuine experience working ON games.  She's the real deal and frankly despite her feelings about Hotline Miami 2, she IS one of us, unlike Ms. Sarkessian who I personally consider a hostile interloper and a fraud.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 01:34:47 PM by DarkZephyr »

Offline Highwayman667

  • Methuselah
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #73 on: April 18, 2019, 01:54:25 PM »
Can you share everything you saw now?

I don't really know. The NDA I signed goes for 3 years, but I guess I can confirm what others already did. I was shown the beginning of the game which is pretty much as it was described in magazines and webpages. You start off as victim of a mass embrace, end up in a court because of this which get's firebombed so you escape. During that time you can test the three basic thinblood disciplines that are described and decide with which one you will go. You'll be contacted by a female pointing you to the pier, where you meet another vampire who points you to your haven, where you'll meet Dale who is really funny and pure Mitsoda genius! After that they had some technical problems so I didn't see the Seattle hub that the press saw.

I am SOOO down for this game.

Offline mdqp

  • Ancillus
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #74 on: April 18, 2019, 02:20:43 PM »
snip

Yeah, I don't think she can give the game a touch of death just by being involved in the project, I am just a bit wary, because the attitude I saw in that article seems to clash with how potentially dark things can be in a VtM:B game, and it all ties together with certain comments being made about the previous game and how this will be different.

I think throwing the game into the garbage bin at this stage is premature (I mean, nowadays you can always wait until after launch, and see on youtube gameplay footage of it, if you are distrustful). The game has actually a lot going for it (same lead writer, lead composer etc.), and while some things were said about the previous game that I didn't feel were fair, they also did say a lot of good things about it, and it does seem like they are passionate about the idea.

I don't know her well enough to make comments about her as a person (or whether she is a gamer or not), it's just that the more I read from her, the less I like her writing.