Author Topic: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?  (Read 5434 times)

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Offline Gurkhal

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Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« on: April 11, 2019, 08:58:52 PM »
I've spent some time now on some various communities and reading a bit about VtMB2 and most importantly the fan reactions and expecations to it. And from that I've come to think that the game will be a big failure in the end.

I think the game itself will be pretty good and worthwhile to play as a game, but I think it will not measure up to Bloodlines and may fail in the end in relation to what's expected from the invested effort and money into the game.

The reason I think this is that I think it can never live up to the Bloodline hype, that the majority of the, in my opinion, extremely conservative fan base of VtM will not accept the V5 setting. And that given how, at least that's what I've heard but I could be wrong here, that its meant to be a political game, I think the current political climate might be that it draws flak in a way similar to V5 or becomes so partisan, to avoid this, that it will essentially be preaching to the faithful and with little new or interesting to say, while driving away those not adhering to the political message of the game. And this could also be true even if the game isn't supposed to be political.

I made this thread to see if there are others who thinks the same or, if I've got it all wrong with this?
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Offline Aurelian

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2019, 09:17:47 PM »
If I may offer you one small piece of advice.

Bloodlines 2, no matter how the game turns out to be in the end, will never be the original Bloodlines, and that is okay. Bloodlines is a cult classic game. A game which holds emotional significance for many of us. Do not measure Bloodlines 2 with the original, measure Bloodlines 2 as its own game.

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Offline Gurkhal

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2019, 09:58:51 PM »
If I may offer you one small piece of advice.

Bloodlines 2, no matter how the game turns out to be in the end, will never be the original Bloodlines, and that is okay. Bloodlines is a cult classic game. A game which holds emotional significance for many of us. Do not measure Bloodlines 2 with the original, measure Bloodlines 2 as its own game.

I agree entirely. But I do hope that more than you and me will see it this way. And that the difference between setting in the different versions of VtM will not lead people to reject the game as "not being VtM".

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Offline Nanaloma

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 02:42:27 AM »
I believe pre-orders are exceedingly high.  I think your assessment was basically correct though.  A lot of the people who pre-ordered will be disappointed because they WILL compare it to BL1, the word gets out, and sales fall flat.  With the current atmosphere, NO politics whatsoever is the way to go and it has been announced that that is not being done.   

Online Highwayman667

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 05:09:14 AM »
Bloodlines 2, no matter how the game turns out to be in the end, will never be the original Bloodlines, and that is okay. Bloodlines is a cult classic game. A game which holds emotional significance for many of us. Do not measure Bloodlines 2 with the original, measure Bloodlines 2 as its own game.

Thank you.

And people, please... give the goddamn game a chance.

Offline mdqp

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 12:50:33 PM »
Actually, I think it's pretty fair to compare this to Bloodlines 1. They specifically decided to make this Bloodlines 2. They could have used the VtM setting without tying it to the first, if they wanted to, so of course I am going to compare the two. I don't see any reason to be unfair to it, just because I love the first one, but it was up to them to keep the games separated. Of course, a lot of time has passed as well, so that's something to be mindful of as well.

As for the politics, coming from someone that does have a few reservations about one of the writers, as I saw her kind of whine about a rape scene in Hotline Miami 2 (which worries me given the very dark nature of Bloodlines), I don't think it will have an impact, unless it's really poorly handled.

Most people don't care if you take a few jabs here and there at them (I mean, how many were really offended at the joke about voting republicans in Bloodlines 1?), or if it's not presented in a hamfisted way. Damsel is in your face, but she isn't portrayed as some kind of Infallible being, and the other vampires in the very same place, tell you she is a bit overzealous. Plenty of the other vampires talk to you about their ideas, but they aren't a unanimous chore, it's all fairly smooth. Were those "political"? Yes, in the broadest sense. Nobody would care if it was just that, even those who chase after any potential source of outrage.

Honestly, the main problem is just how well or poorly written the game is. If you put personal messages above writing, of course you are going to have a poor story, but that's always a given. Right now, we really don't know anything about the game. Even in today's climate, when someone says they want to be political isn't good enough to determine how they want to go about it, as different people have different standards.

Offline VampireBill

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 01:22:07 PM »
As was laid out in a fan-made video earlier, from the existing interviews it still *sounds* like there's reasonable hope that they will stick to allowing you to RP pretty much whatever kind of *vampire* (because at the end of the day, you're still a blood-sucking predatory monster, and playing a vegan pacifist vampire wouldn't be a very exciting game) you want to be. There were "political" characters on different sides of the spectrum in the first game, but you weren't locked into embracing their ideals in your dialogue choices. But, if they do end up forcing your character into that in the new game, then... yeah... it will be hard to forgive.

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 05:50:48 PM »
I agree with most opinions offered in this thread. I'd just add that setting apart the massive engine upgrade from NOD to Source, a segment of the Redemption community was concerned that the original Bloodlines wouldn't be as good as Redemption. Despite not having multiplayer, Bloodlines eventually won people over, after the community made the game what it is today. I'll admit that making it a second Bloodlines game adds another layer of expectations however.

Depending on the map design, it may be possible to add a multiplayer component in Unreal 4. I'm one of the few people who had the chance to play the pvp Bloodlines multiplayer that AtrBlizzard made in Source via Alien Swarm, prior to Project Vaulderie. If he could do that primarily by himself, I don't see why the community couldn't step up and make a mp storyteller model for bl2 in Unreal 4, if they wanted to.

Offline Aurelian

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 06:01:47 PM »
As for the politics, coming from someone that does have a few reservations about one of the writers, as I saw her kind of whine about a rape scene in Hotline Miami 2 (which worries me given the very dark nature of Bloodlines), I don't think it will have an impact, unless it's really poorly handled.

Name of that writer, please?

Offline Barabbah

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 07:25:53 PM »
I would have called it Bloodlines 2: Redemption (and all your friends are still dead) :razz:
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Offline Oscar

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 09:19:48 PM »
The fact that it’s sequel, instead of original title is testimonial of failure.
Unless you of course love the soulless ”AAA” titles.

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Offline El_Gostro

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2019, 09:31:40 PM »
It does sound like a case of peractorum sequelitis pecunia lactantium (pardon the Godgle pig latin) taking into account , as other posters have said, that they chose the sequel categorization.
Doubts are somewhat assuaged by the fact that the funny fellow with the gloves who directed the bloodlines (1) team seems to be on the helm.

I remember hearing already many years ago how a team was crowdfunding a sort of sequel to that holy grail cult game Planescape Torment , and it seemed as if they had obtained the rights to use or reference that game in their title as the game was also called "Torment".
From what I gather, they made a big fanfare about how they got some or many of the original team that developed PST including  Chris Avellone and even got the same Mitsoda who worked in Bloodlines into the team.
From what I understan, the final product turned out to be a rather misshapen mess, despite the long development time and apparently very successful funding.


Then again, this is a rather irrelevant musing as most likely than not I won't be playing it as even if the funds to afford a rig situable for playing it were made available , most likely would burn it in tardigrade fertility research.... :chinscratch:

And it's rather early, so guess we'll see?

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2019, 09:32:53 PM »
As for the politics, coming from someone that does have a few reservations about one of the writers, as I saw her kind of whine about a rape scene in Hotline Miami 2 (which worries me given the very dark nature of Bloodlines), I don't think it will have an impact, unless it's really poorly handled.

Name of that writer, please?

That would be Cara Ellison and she is the reason why people fear B2 would not be as naughty as the original...
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Online Highwayman667

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2019, 01:45:16 AM »
That would be Cara Ellison and she is the reason why people fear B2 would not be as naughty as the original...

Well as much as we love the first one we do have to admit there are issues regarding some types of portrayals. Mostly malkavians which are pure caricatures of people with mental illnesses.

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2019, 04:25:55 AM »
That would be Cara Ellison and she is the reason why people fear B2 would not be as naughty as the original...

Well as much as we love the first one we do have to admit there are issues regarding some types of portrayals. Mostly malkavians which are pure caricatures of people with mental illnesses.

Could you explain what you mean by "issue?" Different people elevate different things to different levels when they use such words. Are you implying it's like a step down from blackface or something? Sure, the insanity shown by Malks shown in Bloodlines is largely inaccurate, but it's very fun and often funny. The game isn't ruining the lives of people with mental illnesses. While I would like to see some really brilliantly-written legitimized mental illnesses in Bloodlines 2, the complete eradication of anything comedic will erase what is easily one of most players' favorite parts of the first game.