Author Topic: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?  (Read 5435 times)

Offline Nanaloma

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2019, 06:16:26 AM »
I wonder if people consider Harley Quinn to be an issue; it's very similar.  I'd hazard a guess of not many.  True, there are a lot of snow flakes around these days that get upset over what is, in reality, nothing and I'm sure that whatever is written into BL2 (whether BL1ish or not) there will be those buying or reading reviews (or making them) that berate it.  The key thing for a sequel really isn't so much how similar it is except that the story is an extension and is good.  I don't think I've ever played a sequel where the same characters as the first looked or sounded like the original.   I don't know of any where the fighting system or controls weren't radically changed.  Generally, the developers will think they are making improvements - some work, some don't.  There may be annoyance (people still complain about the melee changes from Gothic 2 to Gothic 3) but as long as the story advance makes sense, it can work.  I'm always negative; I expect the worse.  I still hope for a great game.  However, I won't pre-order. 

What I think would be cool is a cameo by Christoff.  :)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 06:36:52 AM by Nanaloma »

Offline VampireBill

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2019, 07:01:19 AM »

Well as much as we love the first one we do have to admit there are issues regarding some types of portrayals. Mostly malkavians which are pure caricatures of people with mental illnesses.

Did anyone playing see Malkavians and have their take-away honestly be "This is what people with mental illnesses must be like IRL!", or did they just see them as fictional supernatural characters driven batty as a result of their fictional supernatural curse, and actually hearing real (non-delusional) voices in their heads?
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Offline mdqp

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2019, 08:15:53 AM »
The fact that it’s sequel, instead of original title is testimonial of failure.
Unless you of course love the soulless ”AAA” titles.

- Negrodamus

Well, now that might be going a little too far. If what they say is true, they went with a pitch to Paradox, it wasn't Paradox shopping for a sequel. That would mean they are passionate about the idea of making another game in the same world. Of course, I don't know what's going on in their heads, I can just speculate based on what they said.

Well as much as we love the first one we do have to admit there are issues regarding some types of portrayals. Mostly malkavians which are pure caricatures of people with mental illnesses.

I don't think it's meant to be derogatory or fully representative, so I find the the idea that it had issues to be a fundamental misunderstanding. By that token, any character ever portrayed in any media has issues because he/she doesn't represent appropriately any groups they are a part of. Of course, a single character cannot represent all people in their group, that's insane (pun intended).

Also, "raving lunatics" do exist.


If anything, Malkavians are too rational under their ramblings (which some might even argue is a more accurate portrayal of mental illness than most XD).

Finally, this is an illness created by a blood curse, does it even have to reflect real life mental issues at all? At the end of the day, the game has to be fun. I like Grout's manor, I like Therese/Jeanette (but I love Jeanette, god bless her insane, digital soul), and I like every single Malkavian line and interaction in the game (they are actually my favourite clan in the game, I am currently through my nth run of the game with one). I am of course unapologetic about it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 08:17:44 AM by mdqp »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2019, 08:54:35 AM »
I like Grout's manor, I like Therese/Jeanette (but I love Jeanette, god bless her insane, digital soul), and I like every single Malkavian line and interaction in the game (they are actually my favourite clan in the game, I am currently through my nth run of the game with one).

I fear this might not be about the over-the-top-funny Malkavian player in the first place, but Jeanette and Therese which are indeed schizophrenic. But their depth as characters was one of the reasons why Bloodlines became my favorite game, and cutting something like this in B2 would mean loosing a lot...

Offline mdqp

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2019, 09:16:33 AM »
I fear this might not be about the over-the-top-funny Malkavian player in the first place, but Jeanette and Therese which are indeed schizophrenic. But their depth as characters was one of the reasons why Bloodlines became my favorite game, and cutting something like this in B2 would mean loosing a lot...

On the positive side, it's not like they can't write good characters just because they might have a few moral issues on certain topics, I just worry because that type of morals seems extremely out of place in the kind of dark world that you'd expect in a VtM game.

As I said in another post, though, this might be nothing to worry about, and had this game been released 10 years ago, I'd know nothing about the politics of the involved writers. The journalistic discussion has taken a political turn, so you get political questions and answers, with pundits that emphasize this further. We really don't know enough about the game at the moment, and it all depends on how gracefully the writing team handles any of this.

Offline Aurelian

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2019, 02:01:14 PM »
That would be Cara Ellison and she is the reason why people fear B2 would not be as naughty as the original...

Yeah, so I googled her work a bit. I think that she would have major issues with many elements from the original Bloodlines. It all depends how high in the hierarchy of the studio she is, how much her voice carries weight, so to speak.

Offline El_Gostro

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2019, 02:17:57 PM »
Quite generous, this capture from the biggest MMORPG :

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2019, 07:40:39 PM »
That would be Cara Ellison and she is the reason why people fear B2 would not be as naughty as the original...

Yeah, so I googled her work a bit. I think that she would have major issues with many elements from the original Bloodlines.

Still she loved it enough to get involved in the sequel in the first place. You mustn't forget than some things were already censored in Bloodlines 1 because they were not deemed right at the time! Most of which I restored in the UP :)...

Offline Signothorn

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2019, 07:50:55 PM »
That would be Cara Ellison and she is the reason why people fear B2 would not be as naughty as the original...

Yeah, so I googled her work a bit. I think that she would have major issues with many elements from the original Bloodlines.

Still she loved it enough to get involved in the sequel in the first place. You mustn't forget than some things were already censored in Bloodlines 1 because they were not deemed right at the time! Most of which I restored in the UP :)...

Not to mention that people are capable of separating their personal biases in business if they choose.

Offline MooCHa

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2019, 11:30:05 PM »
That would be Cara Ellison and she is the reason why people fear B2 would not be as naughty as the original...

Yeah, so I googled her work a bit. I think that she would have major issues with many elements from the original Bloodlines.

Still she loved it enough to get involved in the sequel in the first place. You mustn't forget than some things were already censored in Bloodlines 1 because they were not deemed right at the time! Most of which I restored in the UP :)...

If they enjoy having a career it would make sense. Just watch them sell their soul to Caine ;)

Edit: Add signo post to my post and it makes sense.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 12:09:25 AM by MooCHa »
Regards...

Offline Nanaloma

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2019, 12:53:58 AM »
Journalism in the USA has bias strongly affecting work and doing well at the same time. 

Offline DarkZephyr

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2019, 08:05:59 AM »
For my part, I think we need to go the "give the game a chance" route.  This kind of Debbie Downer Chicken Little talk can create self fulfilling prophecies.  If enough people read this thread and think "Oh Gosh, that OP guy is right, the game is gonna suck, I better not buy it" then it could very well crash.  I would rather see it succeed if its a good game and since the original main writer is involved, I see no reason on earth why it can't be a good game. I don't think its going to suck.

All this talk of politics though.  What are some people expecting this to be?  A presidential campaign rally?  Republicans Vs Democrats?  I think for the most part, the "politics" we see will be vampire politics.  This whole setting is hugely political in that regard, is it not?  The politics of the Camarilla, the politics of the clans and factions, etc.  THAT is the kind of politics I expect that we will mainly see.

As for this boogeyman lady writer (if her first name were Anita I might be concerned, but its not thankfully), the original game didn't have rape and I don't expect this game will have rape either.  The game won't need rape to be fun, so I don't expect we will have much to worry about.  Frankly, I don't see how a writer's aversion to rape should be a cause of concern for the content of the game.  We want a vampire game, not "Deliverance the PC Game".  We can be naughty in a fun way without there being rape in the game.  I try to picture my PC's sire's voice saying "He got a real purty mouth, don't he?!" and its just not working for me as a Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines game scenario.  So I think we can all relax and wait and see what the game is actually like.  Personally, I am feeling VERY optimistic and excited. 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 08:31:39 AM by DarkZephyr »
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Offline ush

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2019, 11:16:26 AM »
"As for this boogeyman lady writer (if her first name were Anita I might be concerned, but its not thankfully), the original game didn't have rape and I don't expect this game will have rape either.  The game won't need rape to be fun"

Neither did Hotline Miami 2, but that didn't stop her launching a moral panic.

Reality is that if the original Bloodlines was launched today she'd be calling for it to be censored.

Thats the head writer. Good luck with that.

Offline Radical21

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2019, 11:25:27 AM »
I've spent some time now on some various communities and reading a bit about VtMB2 and most importantly the fan reactions and expecations to it. And from that I've come to think that the game will be a big failure in the end.

I think the game itself will be pretty good and worthwhile to play as a game, but I think it will not measure up to Bloodlines and may fail in the end in relation to what's expected from the invested effort and money into the game.

The reason I think this is that I think it can never live up to the Bloodline hype, that the majority of the, in my opinion, extremely conservative fan base of VtM will not accept the V5 setting. And that given how, at least that's what I've heard but I could be wrong here, that its meant to be a political game, I think the current political climate might be that it draws flak in a way similar to V5 or becomes so partisan, to avoid this, that it will essentially be preaching to the faithful and with little new or interesting to say, while driving away those not adhering to the political message of the game. And this could also be true even if the game isn't supposed to be political.

I made this thread to see if there are others who thinks the same or, if I've got it all wrong with this?

That's ok kid , Bloodlines didn't measure up to VTMR's multiplayer in my book. so I'm not worried. 
Even if the game itself falls flat , if it is mod-friendly then its all good,  it would still sustain a community to lift it up.
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Offline Radical21

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Re: Is it just me, or is VtMB2 destined to come crashing down?
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2019, 11:33:27 AM »
I like Grout's manor, I like Therese/Jeanette (but I love Jeanette, god bless her insane, digital soul), and I like every single Malkavian line and interaction in the game (they are actually my favourite clan in the game, I am currently through my nth run of the game with one).

I fear this might not be about the over-the-top-funny Malkavian player in the first place, but Jeanette and Therese which are indeed schizophrenic. But their depth as characters was one of the reasons why Bloodlines became my favorite game, and cutting something like this in B2 would mean loosing a lot...

Schizophrenia is loss of touch with Reality .  Therese/Jeanette suffers from Dissociative identity disorder (DID). 
 
I think the rest of it depends on how you interpret the game.