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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 => Bloodlines 2 General discussion => Topic started by: VickiLeekx on January 06, 2020, 02:19:42 AM

Title: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: VickiLeekx on January 06, 2020, 02:19:42 AM
It may sound weird but i think the whole feeling of being immersed into this late californian 2004 night vibe really had a huge impact on our own perception of VTMB, the pop culture context , that urban-fantasy cybergoth grungy atmosphere, i'm really going to miss it.. it was a part of the game's essence, it kinda was its trademark, they managed to capture the zeitgeist in a very legit way.. This game was witty & funny. Sarcastic & good play on some of the major influences of the contextual time it was made in. They could have kept that cybergoth aesthetic while making it more modern, i'm a bit sad that they decided to get rid of it, not everything has to be realistic.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 06, 2020, 03:27:59 AM
We're probably rushing a bit in our judgements. We only saw one dance club and it obviously didn't have the ambience from The Asylum and Confession. That might not necessarily be a bad thing considering The Asp Hole was a rather dissonant club in comparison to the former two.

I will say that I did love the goth athmosphere of many places in BL1. I've never been to a goth or dark synth discotheque before but BL1 gave me a nice taste of what it would feel like.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: NateHevens on January 06, 2020, 08:37:27 AM
I gotta be honest... I don't want them to go that route with it. I said it in the comments of a Reddit post, but VTMB1 captured that vibe specifically because it was in the zeitgeist at the time. It's not longer in the zeitgeist today.

Remember that VTMB2, in order to be successful, has to appeal to people who didn't play VTMB1. That's gonna be hard if it just copies the aesthetic of VTMB1. Even today's Gothic culture has moved on from all that.

I want VTMB2 to be more modern. I'm not saying it shouldn't be creepy or have a dark atmosphere. But aping the Gothic vibe of the original would be a mistake, IMO. Update it for 2020. Make it really look like it's been 15 years.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 06, 2020, 12:20:03 PM
I gotta be honest... I don't want them to go that route with it. I said it in the comments of a Reddit post, but VTMB1 captured that vibe specifically because it was in the zeitgeist at the time. It's not longer in the zeitgeist today.

Was it though ? The goth aspects were part of a subculture that was being represented in BL1, rather than the general feeling of the decade.

You still make a good point, though I would argue that the benefit of having a similar athmosphere from BL1 would actually benefit BL2 because it fits the mythology. It is the World of Darkness after all.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: mdqp on January 06, 2020, 01:14:58 PM
I think part of the reason for the shift in mood could be the passage to the new edition of the tabletop rules. I am not an expert, but I feel like the lore and background story did move a bit from that idea. I do personally quite like the feeling and look of the original, and as a personal note I also prefer that level of technology for storytelling and world-building (modern times with cameras and surveillance everywhere feel a bit incongruous for the needs of magical creatures, and the mysticism and mystery harder to keep).

I don't think the new tone is a bad fit (or even TOO distant from the first one), however. In fact, it's one of the things I am more optimistic about, given what little we have seen so far. Time will tell, anyway. Did we get a more precise date for the new release, or is it just Q2 2020?
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Highwayman667 on January 06, 2020, 02:52:42 PM
Well, we do know that at least the masquerade is still law... or at least it will be in BL2. I can't say it would be a deal breaker for me if this game turned out to neglect the goth aspects from the first one but I would still play the hell of it.

It seems like the date hasn't been altered yet. I do believe we're looking at Q2-Q3 this year.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Happydeathclaw on January 06, 2020, 09:17:15 PM
And I'd like to see more mind scientific explanations of vampire anatomy and physiology and less of all this gothic&mystic crap.

For the science!

LOL
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Nanaloma on January 07, 2020, 12:44:43 AM
It may sound weird but i think the whole feeling of being immersed into this late californian 2004 night vibe really had a huge impact on our own perception of VTMB, the pop culture context , that urban-fantasy cybergoth grungy atmosphere, i'm really going to miss it.. it was a part of the game's essence, it kinda was its trademark, they managed to capture the zeitgeist in a very legit way.. This game was witty & funny. Sarcastic & good play on some of the major influences of the contextual time it was made in. They could have kept that cybergoth aesthetic while making it more modern, i'm a bit sad that they decided to get rid of it, not everything has to be realistic.

Probably a few people similarly lamented that BL1 didn't have an early 80s feel.  I don't see the point in dating a game and alienating new players right from the get go. 
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: MooCHa on January 07, 2020, 05:07:19 PM
Well, we do know that at least the masquerade is still law... or at least it will be in BL2. I can't say it would be a deal breaker for me if this game turned out to neglect the goth aspects from the first one but I would still play the hell of it.

It seems like the date hasn't been altered yet. I do believe we're looking at Q2-Q3 this year.

I'd hope they go for Q3 as it won't even be on my Radar before that.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: fylimar on January 08, 2020, 09:04:15 AM
I gotta be honest... I don't want them to go that route with it. I said it in the comments of a Reddit post, but VTMB1 captured that vibe specifically because it was in the zeitgeist at the time. It's not longer in the zeitgeist today.

Was it though ? The goth aspects were part of a subculture that was being represented in BL1, rather than the general feeling of the decade.

You still make a good point, though I would argue that the benefit of having a similar athmosphere from BL1 would actually benefit BL2 because it fits the mythology. It is the World of Darkness after all.

I agree about goth being a subculture in that time (being a goth myself). It is much more mainstream today than it was back then.
I would love, if B2 has a similar gothic vibe, but I'm ok with another theme alltogether. I agree though, that the dark tones fit the WoD very well. I think, it is no coincidence, that many goth play Vampire the Masquerade.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Talyn82 on January 13, 2020, 06:16:00 AM
I gotta be honest... I don't want them to go that route with it. I said it in the comments of a Reddit post, but VTMB1 captured that vibe specifically because it was in the zeitgeist at the time. It's not longer in the zeitgeist today.

Was it though ? The goth aspects were part of a subculture that was being represented in BL1, rather than the general feeling of the decade.

You still make a good point, though I would argue that the benefit of having a similar athmosphere from BL1 would actually benefit BL2 because it fits the mythology. It is the World of Darkness after all.

I agree about goth being a subculture in that time (being a goth myself). It is much more mainstream today than it was back then.
I would love, if B2 has a similar gothic vibe, but I'm ok with another theme alltogether. I agree though, that the dark tones fit the WoD very well. I think, it is no coincidence, that many goth play Vampire the Masquerade.

I think they'll bring back the gothic vibe.  Before I ever played the game, one of the things I always heard was how good the music was, and I agree.  The devs most likely did their research and saw it was one of the positives of the game.  Though since I am a metal fan I would like to hear some metal too.  Jack looks like a metal head.  In fact I downloaded a skin from this site where on his vest it says Motorhead.  Yeah I can definitely see Jack rolling with bikers. 
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Gurkhal on March 04, 2020, 07:51:32 AM
I'm kind of happy they moved away from the 90s and 00s feel to the game. Because we're 20-30 years away from that time and I'd rather see they capture today well than see some awkward attempt to create a past era. Now it could be done, I assume, but I'm more comfortable with them getting it right in taking on our own time.
Besides, I grew up in the 90s and I barely recall what it was like.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on March 04, 2020, 09:55:04 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Bloodlines 1's world isn't too different from the present day and could easily be adapted? I mean, yeah, people still used pay phones and computers had these large chunky monitors but apart from that, what's so fundamentally different? Alternative clubs still exist today, cities still look largely the same (especially in a game that takes liberties with the geography and aesthetics).
Besides, the World of Darkness had never been an exact copy of our world in terms of appearance and vibe, it has a darker/grungier feel. So goth and other subcultures could still be a part of it.
So, what I'm saying is, apart from updated graphics and technology and a contemporary culture context, I don't think it will be unrecognisable from the first game.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Gurkhal on March 04, 2020, 01:44:10 PM
It wouldn't be entirley unrecognizable but the digital evolution has moved things forward, a lot. I think that many of the tasks done hand or so in Bloodlines 1 would be by hacking computers in Bloodlines 2. Thus "Computer/Hacking/Whatever" would be the single best skill, after combat given the second half of the game, and with hacking you would be able to access a great deal more things than you can in Bloodlines 1 as much more information is nowadays digitalized.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on March 04, 2020, 02:17:59 PM
IMO Hacking was already the most useful skill in Bloodlines 1  :wink:  At least the way I play my characters. It's just useful in many situations, from acquiring information, to bypassing traps and finding shortcuts. I agree, it's likely to become even moreso in Bloodlines 2. I suppose the extent to which everything will be accessible in digital form depends on how the quests are built; if the information we need is held by a person, or in their journal, or some ancient tome belonging to an Elder etc. other skills may come into play. Lockpicking will probably still be a thing as well, since there are still plenty of doors with conventional locks.


I guess one of the biggest changes from the first game is the prevalence of smartphones; in Bloodlines 1 Jack talks about camera phones and the internet making life difficult for Kindred but it's even moreso nowadays, anyone can take high res photos and recordings and upload them to YouTube or whatever where they can go viral within minutes...the Masquerade is more vital than ever. At the same time however, with all the "deepfakes" and photoshopped images etc. mortals are likely to dismiss many of them as hoaxes someone made up for laughs/likes. Still it would be interesting if a side quest involved dealing with a viral video of supernatural origin, by discrediting it in some way.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Raving_Neonate on April 20, 2020, 08:38:13 PM
I only find it funny how everyone expects that kindred would be comfortable or super skilled in all the new technologies, despite the fact that they are not keen on changing and are prepared to resist it by all means necessary. Access to information by the young blood is a threat to their power, hence control or elimination of the said tech would be the only recourse they have.


By extension, that is why I find the "contemporary" era a bit dull and it has the potential to douse the atmosphere. Also, I can't imagine a kindred reading his notifications and feed, having his social media account and getting likes. It destroys the mood.


Also, what would he do if his account gets hacked? Roll will saves.


Just my opinion.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 20, 2020, 09:16:01 PM
@Raving_Neonate: I'm pretty sure it would be a masquerade violation to have a public persona via social media. Maybe these rules need to be clarified but some just seem a bit common sense.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: DarkProphet on April 20, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
@Raving_Neonate: I'm pretty sure it would be a masquerade violation to have a public persona via social media. Maybe these rules need to be clarified but some just seem a bit common sense.



It's a gray area, but largely frowned upon. Several of the L.A. By Night player characters have social media presences. A Ventrue in the group livestreams while out on missions to his advantage. He has look-alikes who walk out in public for him occasionally, just to get spotted and have their pictures taken, etc., so that people won't be like "Heeeey, why don't I see him during the day?"


The big problem comes in about 10 years when "Oh, I'm rich so I always look good" starts to wear off. If we lived in the WoD, Tom Cruise would've been suspected and interrogated by Hunters by now. It's not a direct Masquerade violation because the Kindred could always just stop all social appearances to be a name for a few more decades, and eventually drop the name entirely and operate through pawns, etc.


But I agree that it's an awful idea for the most part. Heck, I'm against using social media for myself IRL, even, and I'm neither a criminal nor anyone special who needs to avoid notice for any special reasons.
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Raving_Neonate on April 21, 2020, 06:54:50 AM
I agree with your statement DarkProphet, though I am puzzled at the kindred's response to social media and its wide reach/implication. From the books I read set in WoD, I could narrow vampires' responses to new things to two particular responses: control or destruction.

To control social media would be a whole lot difficult while their destruction would also be next to impossible. Since everything on the internet is basically immortal, the implications of that fact alone would be an enormous risk to the masquerade - the question of age or occupation would be easily brought up. Let's not forget that other factions could use SM, so hunters would have a field day with the amount of kindred they would have staked. I think that changelings/werewolves could do something similar, but I am not too much familiar with their lore to assume that.


The kindred should abandon social media in my opinion, since it would require considerable effort and assets to maintain an active cover over them. The Cam would need a special task force and the other sects would have some kind of a response to anything that would emerge... I don't think that Sabbath would give a damn and this would make them a liability, provoking an all out war before long or at least some major conflict.


The social media has an ability to distract, but that would be just a reliance onto chance. The SM can also connect and damage, two factors that can easily destroy the kindred with their limited responses.


That is why I think that the modern era is a mistake. Aside from some other problems I have with the new game, this can prove to be the fatal one since it can obstruct the entire plot in spite of who writes it.



Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Wesp5 on April 21, 2020, 11:09:23 AM
That is why I think that the modern era is a mistake. Aside from some other problems I have with the new game, this can prove to be the fatal one since it can obstruct the entire plot in spite of who writes it.
I don't think Kindred would have any problems controlling social media! Ever heard of Fake News and how Trump and the Russians manipulated the US election?
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Raving_Neonate on April 21, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
Contemporary politics aside, I just said that it would require tremendous effort to control if the elders overcome their fear of change. To instigate one or two scandals is easy as well as their mending, but to control everything is a wholly new level of everyday commitment that someone will have to pay and control. I do not think personally that the kindred would be capable of such an unity unless threatened directly.


Those are the reason why I said that they should abandon them, because they do not have a consensus on a long-term solution. Cam can come up with a sort of unified view on it due its hierarchy while the Anarchs and the Sabbath are another story due their obvious direct approach methods and the lack of a clear centralized leadership or something that can serve in that capacity. They are so individualistic/split apart that an unified front is impossible.


 
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: DarkProphet on April 21, 2020, 02:41:55 PM
Contemporary politics aside, I just said that it would require tremendous effort to control if the elders overcome their fear of change. To instigate one or two scandals is easy as well as their mending, but to control everything is a wholly new level of everyday commitment that someone will have to pay and control. I do not think personally that the kindred would be capable of such an unity unless threatened directly.


Those are the reason why I said that they should abandon them, because they do not have a consensus on a long-term solution. Cam can come up with a sort of unified view on it due its hierarchy while the Anarchs and the Sabbath are another story due their obvious direct approach methods and the lack of a clear centralized leadership or something that can serve in that capacity. They are so individualistic/split apart that an unified front is impossible.



Wesp's sentiment that fake news can be used by the Camarilla to manipulate people into believing flagrantly false things and putting the writer's spin on what really happened to keep the public stupid and ignorant about Kindred *is* valid. However, I think that should be a last measure; a means of damage control to lessen the blow when something bad happens that risks the safety of Kindred.


So I agree with you that Kindred oughtn't use social media on themselves at all, unless one has some brilliant, fool-proof scheme that would account for the perceived flaws in using it. Then if some idiot fledgling or neonate starts using social media and eventually becomes a risk to Kindred, the Camarilla will need to have him/her killed and use any means of cleaning up the digital mess, such as fake news, social media control (via ownership of the site, etc.), and so forth.


Oh, and changelings would haaaaaaate social media. The basis of Changeling is that one day, you were abducted from the mortal world, taken to some fantastical land of faeries (the Fae), but they are NOT nice. In fact, it's like a murder-porn sadist field day over there. There are something like 20 of them, all of whom have specific personalities with little variations depending on the form they take (yes, they can look like different people they invent, etc., but with little "hints" as to who they are, such as wearing certain colors or articles of clothing, and having certain behaviors. Anyway, I could go on, but to make things short, the Changeling escapes from this hellscape...and the particular Fae who "owned" him/her wants the Changeling back. The Fae live forever, are INCREDIBLY hard to kill, have reality-altering powers, and can either come after you themselves or send servants to drag you back. So if you're on social media going "Dude! Bro! Check me out at Starbucks on 1st Street in New York City 5 minutes ago, bro!!! Woooo!" you might be getting dragged into a portal in Central Park a few hours later by some strong shirtless dude with a deer skull for a head.


Werewolves, I'm not too sure about. They like being in hippie gatherings in the woods and nature, but some dabble with tech. I suppose the question becomes: is social media and the "web" viewed as a machination/construct of the Weaver, this thing they say has become corrupted and furthers the agenda of the Wyrm. Yeah. Werewolf is some confusing shit that I wish a good (emphasis on GOOD) game would come out to represent so I could enjoy and better understand it. That game in the making gives me some "bad vibes."
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: Nanaloma on April 21, 2020, 08:54:15 PM
That is why I think that the modern era is a mistake. Aside from some other problems I have with the new game, this can prove to be the fatal one since it can obstruct the entire plot in spite of who writes it.
I don't think Kindred would have any problems controlling social media! Ever heard of Fake News and how Trump and the Russians manipulated the US election?

Now Wesp5 is doing fake news!   :)
His point is, however, valid. 
Title: Re: I'm kinda bummed that they got rid of the late 90s early 00s "feel"
Post by: DarkProphet on April 22, 2020, 12:49:18 AM
That is why I think that the modern era is a mistake. Aside from some other problems I have with the new game, this can prove to be the fatal one since it can obstruct the entire plot in spite of who writes it.
I don't think Kindred would have any problems controlling social media! Ever heard of Fake News and how Trump and the Russians manipulated the US election?

Now Wesp5 is doing fake news!   :)
His point is, however, valid. 

That is why I think that the modern era is a mistake. Aside from some other problems I have with the new game, this can prove to be the fatal one since it can obstruct the entire plot in spite of who writes it.
I don't think Kindred would have any problems controlling social media! Ever heard of Fake News and how Trump and the Russians manipulated the US election?

Now Wesp5 is doing fake news!   :)
His point is, however, valid. 




Yeah, I noticed what Wesp said, but in the interest of staying gaming-focused I didn't say anything about that specific item.  :razz:
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