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Offline DarkZephyr

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Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« on: May 06, 2019, 01:17:30 AM »
Now that the "New World of Darkness" has become the "Chronicles of Darkness" and the "Old World of Darkness" has become, for all intents and purposes the Current "World of Darkness" and isn't supposed to be going anywhere any time soon (yay), from what I understand, they are really emphasizing the "cyclical" theory concerning Gehenna (why hello Mass Effect, nice to see you).

Quote from: White Wolf Fandom Wiki
Older sources seem to imply that Gehenna is a cyclical event, occurring all 2300 years, during which the Antediluvians arise, feed on their descendants until only a handful remains, and then retreat back into torpor. Previous Gehenna-events are told to have happened during the fall of the Second City and during the Hellenic period.

And

Quote from: V5 book (according to the Fandom Wiki):
Research done by Beckett and his allies seems to suggest that Gehenna-like events are cyclical and have appeared throughout history. The culmination of events in the 2000s, including the Red Star, the Week of Nightmares, the rise of Thin-bloods, the Withering and the Beckoning has lead some the Kindred to believe that Gehenna has begun, but not as the apocalyptic event which would smother civilization they had imagined. Instead, elders are drawn to the East and vanish. The Sabbat believes that they fight in the Gehenna War against the ancients and has led a mass exodus to the Middle East and the East European Plane to aid them to slay the Antediluvians.

This is all fine and good and interesting, but its not the main reason for my post (though I am curious to know what people's thoughts are on this, so please share). 

I read at the Bloodlines 2 Discord that some people seem to think its not just that Gehenna is cyclical but that the Ancient Ones, such as the Antediluvians and even Caine himself get "replaced".  I am assuming that the theory suggests that its through diablerie.  We have already seen that some of the current Antediluvians kind of ARE replacements.  Tremere was one such replacement as is Giovanni.  But there is a suggestion that even Caine has been similarly replaced and has passed his title down through the ages. 

One of the features of Bloodlines 2 is supposed to be that we will be a vampire that starts at a very low level but will rise to great heights of power.  Could this mean that our adventure may culminate with becoming 3rd Gen, 2nd Gen or even the new Caine?  Thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:22:46 AM by DarkZephyr »

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2019, 02:16:56 AM »
I read at the Bloodlines 2 Discord that some people seem to think its not just that Gehenna is cyclical but that the Ancient Ones, such as the Antediluvians and even Caine himself get "replaced".  I am assuming that the theory suggests that its through diablerie.  We have already seen that some of the current Antediluvians kind of ARE replacements.  Tremere was one such replacement as is Giovanni.  But there is a suggestion that even Caine has been similarly replaced and has passed his title down through the ages.

Even though he manipulated us throughout the entire game... I'd feel kind of bad about killing "Taxi Driver Caine", I loved him.

Offline DarkZephyr

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2019, 03:37:58 AM »
I read at the Bloodlines 2 Discord that some people seem to think its not just that Gehenna is cyclical but that the Ancient Ones, such as the Antediluvians and even Caine himself get "replaced".  I am assuming that the theory suggests that its through diablerie.  We have already seen that some of the current Antediluvians kind of ARE replacements.  Tremere was one such replacement as is Giovanni.  But there is a suggestion that even Caine has been similarly replaced and has passed his title down through the ages.

Even though he manipulated us throughout the entire game... I'd feel kind of bad about killing "Taxi Driver Caine", I loved him.

Hey, I hear ya.  I mean, look at what my custom title is.  lol  He's kinda sexy to me. 

Maybe its not that we "replace" Caine (why hello TES IV: Shivering Isles, nice to see you).  But maybe he gives us some of his blood and somehow raises us up, maybe even to 2nd Gen.  Wouldn't that be cool?  Anyway, its just speculation.  We may not get to be THAT powerful at all.  But its interesting to speculate about, in my opinion. 

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2019, 04:37:16 AM »
Hey, I hear ya.  I mean, look at what my custom title is.  lol  He's kinda sexy to me. 

Maybe its not that we "replace" Caine (why hello TES IV: Shivering Isles, nice to see you).  But maybe he gives us some of his blood and somehow raises us up, maybe even to 2nd Gen.  Wouldn't that be cool?  Anyway, its just speculation.  We may not get to be THAT powerful at all.  But its interesting to speculate about, in my opinion.

It depends, as I'm seeing this now, it looks like we might raise up to become "Prince" of Seattle perhaps.

Not a fan of "End as leader" type of resolutions but it does fit with the power struggle theme behind what seems to be cooking in this story.

Offline DarkZephyr

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2019, 05:40:05 AM »
Hey, I hear ya.  I mean, look at what my custom title is.  lol  He's kinda sexy to me. 

Maybe its not that we "replace" Caine (why hello TES IV: Shivering Isles, nice to see you).  But maybe he gives us some of his blood and somehow raises us up, maybe even to 2nd Gen.  Wouldn't that be cool?  Anyway, its just speculation.  We may not get to be THAT powerful at all.  But its interesting to speculate about, in my opinion.

It depends, as I'm seeing this now, it looks like we might raise up to become "Prince" of Seattle perhaps.

Not a fan of "End as leader" type of resolutions but it does fit with the power struggle theme behind what seems to be cooking in this story.

OMG I love a storyline that ends with me being the bad-ass ruler of all.  And Prince or Baron would still be very very cool. 

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2019, 05:53:56 AM »
I'll take Baron, thank you very much !

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2019, 05:56:03 AM »
Hey, I hear ya.  I mean, look at what my custom title is.  lol  He's kinda sexy to me. 

Maybe its not that we "replace" Caine (why hello TES IV: Shivering Isles, nice to see you).  But maybe he gives us some of his blood and somehow raises us up, maybe even to 2nd Gen.  Wouldn't that be cool?  Anyway, its just speculation.  We may not get to be THAT powerful at all.  But its interesting to speculate about, in my opinion.

It depends, as I'm seeing this now, it looks like we might raise up to become "Prince" of Seattle perhaps.

Not a fan of "End as leader" type of resolutions but it does fit with the power struggle theme behind what seems to be cooking in this story.

OMG I love a storyline that ends with me being the bad-ass ruler of all.  And Prince or Baron would still be very very cool.

Well, if that Prince, Cross, is an alright dude who doesn't make unfair requests of his people, then I'm fine with him staying in charge. I'm be too power-hungry and do whimsical shit that only I find funny but which results in the suffering of hundreds.

Offline DarkZephyr

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2019, 06:25:52 AM »
Well, if that Prince, Cross, is an alright dude who doesn't make unfair requests of his people, then I'm fine with him staying in charge. I'm be too power-hungry and do whimsical shit that only I find funny but which results in the suffering of hundreds.

Malkavian?

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2019, 07:10:34 AM »
Well, if that Prince, Cross, is an alright dude who doesn't make unfair requests of his people, then I'm fine with him staying in charge. I'm be too power-hungry and do whimsical shit that only I find funny but which results in the suffering of hundreds.

Malkavian?

Nah, just an asshole with too much power and an unhealthy sense of humor. ;D

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2019, 01:34:19 AM »
Well, if that Prince, Cross, is an alright dude who doesn't make unfair requests of his people, then I'm fine with him staying in charge.

He probably won't if he's a Ventrue. It's just their nature... born-to-be dicks.

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2019, 01:35:10 AM »
Well, if that Prince, Cross, is an alright dude who doesn't make unfair requests of his people, then I'm fine with him staying in charge.

He probably won't if he's a Ventrue. It's just their nature... born-to-be dicks.

I think most Kindred are, if we're being fair, though. ;p

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2019, 01:43:23 AM »
Well, if that Prince, Cross, is an alright dude who doesn't make unfair requests of his people, then I'm fine with him staying in charge.

He probably won't if he's a Ventrue. It's just their nature... born-to-be dicks.

I think most Kindred are, if we're being fair, though. ;p

I don't know. Ventrue are something special to me !

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2019, 02:08:45 AM »
Well, if that Prince, Cross, is an alright dude who doesn't make unfair requests of his people, then I'm fine with him staying in charge.

He probably won't if he's a Ventrue. It's just their nature... born-to-be dicks.

I think most Kindred are, if we're being fair, though. ;p

I don't know. Ventrue are something special to me !

Do you think that Venture are more dickish than Lasombra, Tzimisce, and Giovanni, though? =p

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2019, 02:35:21 AM »
Do you think that Venture are more dickish than Lasombra, Tzimisce, and Giovanni, though? =p

Those are not Camarilla clans though ;) !

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Gehenna as Cyclical and its Possible Implications
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2019, 04:03:44 AM »
Do you think that Venture are more dickish than Lasombra, Tzimisce, and Giovanni, though? =p

Those are not Camarilla clans though ;) !

Well, technically in V5, Lasombra have been invited into the Camarilla! =p

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Lasombra :

"V5 TimelineEdit

After the rise of the Second Inquisition, and the start of the Gehenna Crusade in the Middle East, Amici Noctis reached out to trusted Keepers, those with reputations for clan over sect loyalty, and the Friends arranged diplomatic missions by these same Keepers to the Anarchs and the Camarilla. At first these representatives are to make solitary offerings of fealty to the Ivory Tower, before petitioning for the entry of the entire clan. Probably at least half the Lasombra will remain in the Sabbat, but will lack central authority or direction if the Amici Noctis is going full Ivory Tower. Those of Lasombra who held titles of Archbishop in the Sabbat, now attempt to do so in the Camarilla, bringing with them their manipulation of the Catholic Church. Any Lasombra ranked Cardinal are put to the torch as a gesture of good faith."
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 04:05:44 AM by DarkProphet »

 

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