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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting  (Read 2364 times)

Offline Monjh

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Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« on: October 13, 2021, 06:01:37 am »
Was checking Paradox site (to see if they had any news/excuses about this game or a non-real release date - let's be honest, they have proven to not be thrustworthy), and what do we get? Even they are suggesting at a refund. Guess it's time we hit the acceptance stage of grief.
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline mdqp

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2021, 09:59:10 am »
ROTFL, I guess that's getting requested so often, they went ahead and gave it to you straight away.
P.S.
Just in case you didn't notice, you also posted your bookmarks and whatnot in the screenshot. Nothing inherently bad, but I am bringing this up in case you prefer to keep those private.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2021, 11:35:49 am »
The refund thing is really old. It goes back to the ancient announcement from February.

Bloodlines 2 was mentioned in their statement to stockholders from a couple of weeks ago. It's still in development but they had nothing new to share beyond that.

Offline mdqp

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 11:59:46 am »
The refund thing is really old. It goes back to the ancient announcement from February.

Bloodlines 2 was mentioned in their statement to stockholders from a couple of weeks ago. It's still in development but they had nothing new to share beyond that.
I must have missed (or forgotten about) the refund thing.

I remember an older statement to stockholders, didn't know BL2 was mentioned again a couple of weeks ago. Still, if they said nothing, that's hardly reassuring.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2021, 12:24:30 pm »
The refund thing is really old. It goes back to the ancient announcement from February.

Bloodlines 2 was mentioned in their statement to stockholders from a couple of weeks ago. It's still in development but they had nothing new to share beyond that.
I must have missed (or forgotten about) the refund thing.

I remember an older statement to stockholders, didn't know BL2 was mentioned again a couple of weeks ago. Still, if they said nothing, that's hardly reassuring.

It's certainly less than ideal. I'm with you in wishing we had something new and shiny to talk about. Unfortunately, we only have generic statements to the tune of "yes, this game is still happening" to hold us over. It's better than nothing but just barely.

Offline mdqp

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 12:50:19 pm »
It's certainly less than ideal. I'm with you in wishing we had something new and shiny to talk about. Unfortunately, we only have generic statements to the tune of "yes, this game is still happening" to hold us over. It's better than nothing but just barely.
Yeah. Usually I don't think about the game anymore, but whenever I do and I realize that there is no news still, I get bummed out. I have tons of games to play, but I was REALLY looking forward to BL2.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2021, 12:55:22 pm »
It's certainly less than ideal. I'm with you in wishing we had something new and shiny to talk about. Unfortunately, we only have generic statements to the tune of "yes, this game is still happening" to hold us over. It's better than nothing but just barely.
Yeah. Usually I don't think about the game anymore, but whenever I do and I realize that there is no news still, I get bummed out. I have tons of games to play, but I was REALLY looking forward to BL2.

I've been playing Paradox games for over a decade now and from personal experience, I would say that they are a good publisher that wants their fans to be happy. As a consequence of how mass marketing works, I don't think they'll ever just issue a plain "here's what we're up to" statement. They're gonna keep quiet until they have some really positive and special to show off, especially given the history of the game's development.

As of this post, Bloodlines 2 is the #6 most wish listed game on all of Steam. They have a clear financial interest in making sure the game comes out and making it good. Paradox is also one of the best publishers when it comes to official modding support. I'm willing to keep being optimistic.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2021, 02:02:03 pm »
I've been playing Paradox games for over a decade now and from personal experience, I would say that they are a good publisher that wants their fans to be happy.
So did you notice any changes in Paradox games when they got the new female CEO which has left again in the meantime? I can't shake the feeling that she was responsible for some bad things happening during her reign, like shutting down WW US, the VtM V5 edition with infamous Rudi and all the problems surrounding Bloodlines 2. Did other Paradox games during the time have similar issues?

Offline Vinland

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2021, 03:02:47 pm »
I've been playing Paradox games for over a decade now and from personal experience, I would say that they are a good publisher that wants their fans to be happy.
So did you notice any changes in Paradox games when they got the new female CEO which has left again in the meantime? I can't shake the feeling that she was responsible for some bad things happening during her reign, like shutting down WW US, the VtM V5 edition with infamous Rudi and all the problems surrounding Bloodlines 2. Did other Paradox games during the time have similar issues?

Honestly, no, not really. For a gigantic corporation, your CEO is always going to be a finance major who focuses on quarterly gains. This kind of CEO can't really influence something as complex as a video game on the micro level. Like, what is she going to do? Walk up to a programmer's screen, point at the day's hot code and say "no, that bool doesn't go there." The only people who can influence a game on that level are the people who have some understanding of computer science. The only gaming studios that have programmers as CEOs tend to be smaller indie studios where the founders are programmers who have six different titles.

As for specific stuff that happened under her watch. She pushed outside titles like Surviving Mars and Cities: Skylines. They didn't do bad but I prefer their more in-house stuff from PDS like Victoria and Crusader Kings.

White Wolf was a sad story but it wasn't too sad. Paradox gave them complete autonomy or in other words gave them enough rope to hang themselves with. They used their complete autonomy to write stories about how vampires are actually killing the gays in Russia. It was a bad judgement call. They didn't get sentenced to hanging after a single gaffe, either. It was several, consistent gaffes that finally caused Paradox to put an end to it because they were tired of running damage control. White Wolf was dissolved as a separate studio and their responsibilities were transferred to a new, internal team that basically serves all of the same functions as the old WW. They actually have a weekly WOD news show which you can watch on twitch.

As for V5, the entire point of a new edition is to make lots of changes. Otherwise, why not just keep re-printing V20 until the end of time? Before it even came out, I knew it was going to be changed in a lot of places to make it consumable in an era where anything that gets attention can be ripped apart and destroyed by social media hyenas. Paradox can only publish in the world they have been given and not the world they would like to live in, you know what I mean? I also wouldn't blame this on the previous CEO, though. It's another case of what is this number cruncher going to do? Walk into White Wolf and say "no, celerity is too strong"? I doubt she had any familiarity with the product at all.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2021, 06:03:12 pm »
Honestly, no, not really. For a gigantic corporation, your CEO is always going to be a finance major who focuses on quarterly gains.
That might be true, but could she not still have some overall influence especially regarding political correctness in their games? I remember Mitsoda promising that they would treat mental illness differently and Ellison talking about trigger warnings. In a game about bloodthirsty monsters killing and seducing humans left and right!

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They used their complete autonomy to write stories about how vampires are actually killing the gays in Russia.
I don't know details about that, but in the oWoD several Nazis responsible for WWII and killing Jews supposedly were vampires.

Quote
As for V5, the entire point of a new edition is to make lots of changes.
I wasn't thinking about gameplay changes, but about things like Rudy the gay islamic black Anarch fighter for women rights.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2021, 06:40:24 pm »
Honestly, no, not really. For a gigantic corporation, your CEO is always going to be a finance major who focuses on quarterly gains.
That might be true, but could she not still have some overall influence especially regarding political correctness in their games? I remember Mitsoda promising that they would treat mental illness differently and Ellison talking about trigger warnings. In a game about bloodthirsty monsters killing and seducing humans left and right!

Quote
They used their complete autonomy to write stories about how vampires are actually killing the gays in Russia.
I don't know details about that, but in the oWoD several Nazis responsible for WWII and killing Jews supposedly were vampires.

Quote
As for V5, the entire point of a new edition is to make lots of changes.
I wasn't thinking about gameplay changes, but about things like Rudy the gay islamic black Anarch fighter for women rights.

Here's a developer diary for Victoria 3 about all of the different ways you can own slaves in that game: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-15-slavery.1490983/

Paradox has never been concerned with ridged political correctness so much as they are concerned with tastefulness. You can push boundaries to an extent but if you go to far, you face ostracization. Outside of a few strange cases like Alex Jones, I don't know many people making money on their own ostracization. It's best not to get chased out of society by mobs throwing rotten vegetables at you. What you can get away with in 2021 isn't the same as what you can get away with in 1990. Likewise, what you could get away with in 1990 was less than what you could get away with in 1960. The world changes and businesses that wish to stay relevant have to change with it.

Some parts of World of Darkness aged particularly poorly over the years. Remember Assimites having blackface as a clan curse? How about Ravnos being based on Roma gypsies and their clan curse is that they are all criminals? If they didn't change some stuff in the lore, they would have been run out of town. lol

Rudi comes off as a parody of diversity run wild but there had to be something like that in there. There's a demand for representation in colour, sexual orientation, etc. If you think about it, was it not clever for them to just check all of those boxes at once on a single character and then move on? :p

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2021, 07:08:24 pm »
Rudi comes off as a parody of diversity run wild but there had to be something like that in there.
Yeah, if he was meant as a parody it would be okay, but I fear he wasn't. I know little about the other things you wrote as I never played the old or new PnP games, only Bloodlines ;)! So I hope whatever they are planning it will not be completely softened and at least the "Come Dance" trailer didn't look like it. Only soon afterward everybody involved was fired or left...

Offline Monjh

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2021, 06:18:17 am »
I'm still a bit cynical about the whole "they are working on it", but that's me.


About the V5: Honestly: with all the plotholes the game had, and all the weird connections, I would prefer if they remade the whole game (including Clans, history, legends, etc. - the same with the other games). Let them have a new chance to re-told the story they want, with new inputs and without around every single supernatural being being classified as if it was an SCP.


And about the image I posted: privacy? On the interwebs? Oh please, if someone want to find something about me they would have an even easier time looking other things I posted.
Vampires? You are watching too much TV.

Offline Vinland

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2021, 07:10:11 am »
Rudi comes off as a parody of diversity run wild but there had to be something like that in there.
Yeah, if he was meant as a parody it would be okay, but I fear he wasn't. I know little about the other things you wrote as I never played the old or new PnP games, only Bloodlines ;)! So I hope whatever they are planning it will not be completely softened and at least the "Come Dance" trailer didn't look like it. Only soon afterward everybody involved was fired or left...

To further elaborate then, in VtM there is a clan called the Assimites (renaned to Banu Haqim in V5). They are a clan of assassins from the middle east. Their clan curse in older version was that every year their skin would get darker. If they lived long enough, their skin would become black like obsidian. It was essentially black face as a clan curse. In V5, their curse was changed to a compulsion to diablerize vampires whom are seen to be committing injustices (so be on your best behaviour around these guys or else).

This change pretty much had to happen. You can't have blackface as a clan curse anymore. lol

Offline Vinland

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Re: Even Paradox customer support about this game is... Quitting
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2021, 07:11:32 am »
I'm still a bit cynical about the whole "they are working on it", but that's me.

If they made an official statement to shareholders saying that the game is still in development (and they did), then there's no reason to not believe them. Intentionally misleading shareholders is a felony better known by the name of securities fraud.

 

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