Author Topic: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible  (Read 1812 times)

Offline AnnekeFloorever

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Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« on: June 12, 2019, 08:32:41 PM »
I get that this game is not that far from release, and that there are still obvious things that need to be polished like the animations which I have faith they will do. However, even if the graphics and animations were not polished, that's not THAT important because...

....Let's go back to the original Bloodlines, even at release, the game was an unpolished mess - yet it was saved by fantastic atmosphere, memorable characters, great music, and most importantly - timeless dialogue.

Each character in the first game felt like they had unique personalities and spoke in different type of metaphors.

In this new trailer, the dialogue was absolute trash in my opinion. And every character you meet is hollow.

For example, compare the club you go into in the first game (The Asylum) vs the club in Seattle.

Yes, they did fan service with silly dancing, but the club music was garbage. It was cheesy pop not memorable goth trance. Collide who did Asylum's music was amazing, but the song they chose for this club, even if not "goth", was horrendous, unmemorable, and just not good.

When you meet the woman on the roof-top, she tons of one-to-two-liners at you that sound like were written by a middle-schooler. This unnamed character responds to you flirting with her by saying this in the trailer:

"You know, you don't have to wait for business to come see me. I may be busy, but I can make exceptions for ... the right person."

It's unmemorable, it's cringe, and not written well.

Where as Jeanette, when she is flirting with you is much more clever and memorable when you talk to her in the Asylum:

"Oooh, what do we have here? Another scrumptious young plaything straight out of life and into my club? Mmm... you smell new, little boy/girl, like fabric softener dew on freshly mowed Astroturf. Oh, I'm not frightening you, am I, duckling?"

"When we get turned on, there's bound to be flames"

"Im the finger down your spine when all the lights are out. I'm the name on all the men's room walls. When I pout, the whole world tries to make me smile. And everyone always wants to, who... is ... that girl?"

Those lines were so beautifully written.

I cringed the most at the thug responding to you in the trailer wanting to fight with him saying, "Oh! Okay."

Really Hardsuit Labs?!

Even if the game is still in "pre-alpha", this dialogue is not. There is no way. Voice actors are paid people, the dialogue that was shown in the trailer is most definitely final because Paradox nor any publishing company spend the additional resources to have voice actors re-record new and better lines.

Offline Candy Narwhal

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2019, 08:45:42 PM »
The music fits the club in question, so I'm not sure what the problem is there.

As for Elif's dialogue, well... I might agree it felt like a hollow echo of Jeanette, but then, that wasn't necessarily the point, for all you or I know.

She's coming on to you in a tone that isn't really sincere. There's enough character there for me.

The rest of the dialogue was stronger anyway, but I suppose since we're cherry-picking here, we're going to ignore that. :vampsmile:


Offline Wilhelm Streicher 19

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2019, 09:28:47 PM »
I like the Atrium music everytime i hear it again a little more.
Its a different club. I think your problem is that you want Bloodlines 2 to repeat every beat from the Original.
Of course they are some reference like the same TV Anchor (voiced again by Brian Mitsoda) but they clearly don´t want to exaggerate it.

Your character comparison isn´t fair in my opinion. I would describe Elif (thats her name) more as mix from VV and Max Strauss.
Elif is a seductive manipulate female Tremere.

Jeanette on the other hand is Malkavian. Of course you can argue that every kindred expect Malkavians are boring in comparison.
I think is fine like everyone else. Also its really to criticise this if we have only saw small glimpses regrading their personality.

Last but not least most Bloodlines 2 characters came from the same Bloodlines 1 Lead Author.
Like in Bloodlines 1 Brian Mitsoda is the Lead Narrative Designer.

Online DarkProphet

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2019, 10:49:04 PM »
I get that this game is not that far from release, and that there are still obvious things that need to be polished like the animations which I have faith they will do. However, even if the graphics and animations were not polished, that's not THAT important because...

....Let's go back to the original Bloodlines, even at release, the game was an unpolished mess - yet it was saved by fantastic atmosphere, memorable characters, great music, and most importantly - timeless dialogue.

Each character in the first game felt like they had unique personalities and spoke in different type of metaphors.

In this new trailer, the dialogue was absolute trash in my opinion. And every character you meet is hollow.

For example, compare the club you go into in the first game (The Asylum) vs the club in Seattle.

Yes, they did fan service with silly dancing, but the club music was garbage. It was cheesy pop not memorable goth trance. Collide who did Asylum's music was amazing, but the song they chose for this club, even if not "goth", was horrendous, unmemorable, and just not good.

When you meet the woman on the roof-top, she tons of one-to-two-liners at you that sound like were written by a middle-schooler. This unnamed character responds to you flirting with her by saying this in the trailer:

"You know, you don't have to wait for business to come see me. I may be busy, but I can make exceptions for ... the right person."

It's unmemorable, it's cringe, and not written well.

Where as Jeanette, when she is flirting with you is much more clever and memorable when you talk to her in the Asylum:

"Oooh, what do we have here? Another scrumptious young plaything straight out of life and into my club? Mmm... you smell new, little boy/girl, like fabric softener dew on freshly mowed Astroturf. Oh, I'm not frightening you, am I, duckling?"

"When we get turned on, there's bound to be flames"

"Im the finger down your spine when all the lights are out. I'm the name on all the men's room walls. When I pout, the whole world tries to make me smile. And everyone always wants to, who... is ... that girl?"

Those lines were so beautifully written.

I cringed the most at the thug responding to you in the trailer wanting to fight with him saying, "Oh! Okay."

Really Hardsuit Labs?!

Even if the game is still in "pre-alpha", this dialogue is not. There is no way. Voice actors are paid people, the dialogue that was shown in the trailer is most definitely final because Paradox nor any publishing company spend the additional resources to have voice actors re-record new and better lines.

You're comparing a nymphomaniac Malkavian to a classily-seductive Tremere and demanding the experiences feel as enjoyable?

And you're actually taking one of the very best - if not THE best - bits of dialog from the entire first game and juxtaposing it with one quest-giver?


Holy shit you set the bar high. If you set your expectations that high, you are setting yourself up for constant unnecessary disappointment in life.

I will give you, however, that I don't particularly like the club music..."Take Me On" or whatever it was called. Obviously it wasn't "Take On Me" or I'd be rewatching that and doing embarrassing dances at home all the while.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 11:14:57 PM by DarkProphet »

Offline AnnekeFloorever

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 11:22:25 PM »
I gave more examples. All the dialogue in the trailer wasn’t good if you ask me.

And just because one character is Tremere and the other is Malkavian doesn’t mean the Tremere should sound generic lol. Her dialogue did not fit her tone, it actually sounded like a classy Siri reading from a teleprompter.

Same with the deformed face guy and the thug and Slugg. All sounded like they were reading from a textbook. There was no depth to any of the dialogue.

I’m not miserable , I’m actually happy with the look of the game, art of the game, and I even liked the combat and atmosphere.

The dialogue is one thing I thought was abysmal next to the music.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 11:23:56 PM by AnnekeFloorever »

Online DarkProphet

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2019, 11:38:19 PM »
I gave more examples. All the dialogue in the trailer wasn’t good if you ask me.

And just because one character is Tremere and the other is Malkavian doesn’t mean the Tremere should sound generic lol. Her dialogue did not fit her tone, it actually sounded like a classy Siri reading from a teleprompter.

Same with the deformed face guy and the thug and Slugg. All sounded like they were reading from a textbook. There was no depth to any of the dialogue.

I’m not miserable , I’m actually happy with the look of the game, art of the game, and I even liked the combat and atmosphere.

The dialogue is one thing I thought was abysmal next to the music.

Almost every character in Bloodlines 1 sounds generic compared to Jeanette. She's insane, drops innuendos, and is a huge nympho. It would be a more fair comparison of you're just going by "club owner women" to compare this Tremere gal with someone like Venus or VV. I already like Tremere gal better than VV if only because VV puts me off with her demeanor. There's polite-flirty (Tremere gal), and then there's outrageously-manipulative-flirty (VV).

Being flirted with is fun...but getting that nagging feeling that you are being taken advantage of in a big way as opposed to "doing the playful dance" or seduction/flirtation, so to speak, can get in the way of a nice time. That was my big hangup with VV, whereas Tremere gal doesn't seem very manipulative here. She makes offers and expects it carried out. "Legitimate" Kindred business as opposed to being all shady. Well, I mean I'm sure she's screwing you over SOMEHOW, but not terribly. Kindred gonna Kindred, amirite?

I'll have to listen to her voice and line delivery again. I rather liked the Nossie's line delivery who stays behind the gate, although I don't like how he shows up right there like he has no purpose in his unlife except to sit there in that spot waiting for you to show up. It doesn't feel like he "lives there" so much as he's waiting for the important player character to appear.

I'll also have to listen to Slugg again. I think I was just smiling because I like Brian Mitosda's voice.
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Offline VampireBill

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 11:39:34 PM »
Watched the 20 minutes of gameplay from IGN yet? It's definitely no better... Does not look like it was ready to be shown at E3 whatsoever. Dialogue worse, combat downright cringe.

Online Highwayman667

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 11:57:24 PM »
Of course people were going to complain -_- ...

Offline fylimar

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 04:17:17 AM »
I don't see anything special in Jeanette dialigues, tbh, I found most of them cringe worthy. If I had to pick great dialigues in Bloodlines 1, it had to be your first meeting with Gary, nearly all Beckett dialigues or even your first encounter with Andrei, which all were nicely done.
I have no problem with the Tremere dialogue or Sluggs.

The music is another thing. I don't like that kind of music in general. What played in the clubs of Bloodlines 1 was more my thing. But maybe they go for a greater variety here. Not everyone hears Gothic rock, dark wave and such.
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Online DarkProphet

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 05:12:21 AM »
I don't see anything special in Jeanette dialigues, tbh, I found most of them cringe worthy. If I had to pick great dialigues in Bloodlines 1, it had to be your first meeting with Gary, nearly all Beckett dialigues or even your first encounter with Andrei, which all were nicely done.
I have no problem with the Tremere dialogue or Sluggs.

The music is another thing. I don't like that kind of music in general. What played in the clubs of Bloodlines 1 was more my thing. But maybe they go for a greater variety here. Not everyone hears Gothic rock, dark wave and such.

Yeah, so far the Bloodlines 1 music is charming me more than the Bloodlines 2 music. Here's hoping that better tracks will come up in the game. That was some weak-ass club music compared to Isolated, the music in the entertainment area of the Empire Arms Hotel, Vesuvius, and so forth.

And I'm reeeeeally hoping that the unused Bloodlines 1 music on the streets was just a placeholder and not what they're going to do in the final product. That would be pretty offputting if they just use those tracks in a $59.99 game...

Offline mdqp

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2019, 08:21:58 AM »
I think the dialogue is good, for the most part, although I do agree that some of these people seem more subdued compared to your average NPC in Bloodlines. It might just be a byproduct of the characters involved in the quest (a Tremere, and a soft-spoken Nosferatu, make for less flashy conversations). Also, the two videos so far picked mostly the same choices, so I can't say if we have some nice moments we missed out on.

I think the Tremere attitude isn't bad at all, and the Nosferatu did have some bite (pun intended) to him, when his proposal is refused, so I am happy with the demo.

I do love how Jeanette spouts flirtatious nonsense, but in some playthroughs I do get annoyed with her, she never gets to the point, if you aren't trying to flirt with her, she easily becomes a nuisance. XD

In most of my runs, however, I just flirt back, she is loads of fun.

The music in the demo, was a bit meh at times, I agree. Still it's a pre-alpha, who knows what's going to change. I wonder if they announced the game this early because they wanted to show something at E3 and at the other game shows, even if they are still away from a more polished build. Also, it could be that they aren't warping development around the demo, so we are getting a rough cut because they are busy working on the game. I wish I was a journalist, so I could ask some stuff about the timing of the releases, and how much time they had to prepare the demo, but nobody seems to ask this kind of informative stuff. :/

Offline Wilhelm Streicher 19

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2019, 10:07:31 AM »
And I'm reeeeeally hoping that the unused Bloodlines 1 music on the streets was just a placeholder and not what they're going to do in the final product. That would be pretty offputting if they just use those tracks in a $59.99 game...
I love that they use that unused Bloodlines 1 tracks.  Some are really great and it would be sad for some players who aren´´t familiar with Wesp patch
that they aren´t getting to hear in a official Bloodlines game.
So i don´t agree with you at all on the topic of unused tracks.

But i agree with you if the music was already been used since release.
Therefore Unused Downtown track is ok but Downtown track would be lazy.

On the topic of music:
For the Atrium song yeah i still like it. Even if we only heard bits of this song.
Also its still very unfair to compare it with the Asylum.  Totally different club with a crazy malkavian owner.

If you really want to compare Atrium with some Bloodlines 1 location please use the Asp Hole for that. And Elif with Venus or VV.


And the dialogues? Its hard for me to criticize the characters when we only get hear a few lines.
But i think it possible to judge at least Slugg. And i like it but i agree that the IGN Video isn´t helpful in this regard. But in Gamespot video Slugg seems
like a well written and interessing character. And his voice actor is also fine yeah its Brian Mitsoda.


I really believe that the main problem for some is their nostalgia and therefore the implications are very hard what a Bloodlines sequel should feature.
I think that Headsuit Labs and Paradox are going the right way but its important to remind that they aren´t Troika and Activision
(nobody really cares that they are gone. Every Publisher even EA is better than Activision nowadays)
For me its a new game.

Or maybe my standards are lower than ours. For a Pre Alpha this even looks more like a better sequel than for example Mass Effect Andromedia or Dragon Age Inquisition.

Online DarkProphet

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2019, 12:45:42 PM »
And I'm reeeeeally hoping that the unused Bloodlines 1 music on the streets was just a placeholder and not what they're going to do in the final product. That would be pretty offputting if they just use those tracks in a $59.99 game...
I love that they use that unused Bloodlines 1 tracks.  Some are really great and it would be sad for some players who aren´´t familiar with Wesp patch
that they aren´t getting to hear in a official Bloodlines game.
So i don´t agree with you at all on the topic of unused tracks.

But i agree with you if the music was already been used since release.
Therefore Unused Downtown track is ok but Downtown track would be lazy.

Yeah but all Bloodlines fans who play the UP will likely just hear "Oh, that's the song that plays in the Warrens" or "Oh, that's the song that plays on the beach," etc. when they reach what's supposed to be a new area in Bloodlines 2. Some of the "magic" and "newness" of the cool new Seattle location will be marred by having a song we've heard dozens of times before and already associate with Bloodlines 1 playing while we explore. The original Bloodlines Theme has a remix and that's as much as I want the music to venture in precise similarity to music already in Bloodlines 1, official or Unofficial Patch versions. I don't need old music I've heard for hours playing in someplace that's supposed to feel new to me, making it feel less new.

Offline Candy Narwhal

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2019, 12:57:05 PM »
It's just a few seconds of the same motif subdued in the background, though. To me, it evokes just enough of a feeling of familiarity without being an outright remix, like the new main menu theme.

I for one couldn't even place where I'd heard it before I saw Wesp clarify that it ended up being used in the tutorial section in the UP+...

Offline Wilhelm Streicher 19

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Re: Dialogue and Music in Bloodlines 2 Trailer is ... Terrible
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2019, 01:06:07 PM »
Yeah but all Bloodlines fans who play the UP will likely just hear "Oh, that's the song that plays in the Warrens" or "Oh, that's the song that plays on the beach," etc. when they reach what's supposed to be a new area in Bloodlines 2. Some of the "magic" and "newness" of the cool new Seattle location will be marred by having a song we've heard dozens of times before and already associate with Bloodlines 1 playing while we explore. The original Bloodlines Theme has a remix and that's as much as I want the music to venture in precise similarity to music already in Bloodlines 1, official or Unofficial Patch versions. I don't need old music I've heard for hours playing in someplace that's supposed to feel new to me, making it feel less new.
And how many did play  Bloodlines 1 with the Patchversions where the unused music was restored?
I believe the music was restored in 2016?
Playing with the UP isn´t a mandatory (its still the best way to play it) and also it "unofficial".
So you can´t expect that everyone had played Bloodlines 1 over years had also used the UP.
Many players were fine with their 1.2  experience.

So really i don´t mind that they put unused Bloodlines 1 tracks official in Bloodlines 2.