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Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Cara Ellison also fired?
« on: October 17, 2020, 08:57:02 am »
Well well its seems that Cara Ellison is also not longer working on Bloodlines 2 because like Mitsoda before she removed her title as senior narrative designer from her twitter bio.
Maybe her work on the Bloodlines 2 base game is done and she is not longer needed but there is still work to do regarding the DLCs and the big fat expansion.
https://twitter.com/caraellison/with_replies?lang=de
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 09:00:31 am by Wilhelm-Streicher »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2020, 09:56:35 am »
Hm, I don't know if this is good news or bad news. I feared she would stay to rewrite Brians stuff to be more woke. If she got fired as well, it might mean the game will be even more different to what both of them were imagening...

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2020, 02:13:14 pm »
If she got fired as well, it might mean the game will be even more different to what both of them were imagening...
My current guess is that the new guy in charge doesn´t care about the game. He is only interessed that the game will be finished soon.
I believe many things will be cut (more than usually in game development) and many people like Brian & Cara have a problem with that. Or he is just firing all people who were problematic in his point of view. Maybe he can´t accept a No. Who knows?

Edit: Here is the tweet that she moves back to UK (or should i better say Scotland?)https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317143128814518280
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 08:13:59 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2020, 03:24:17 pm »
If she got fired as well, it might mean the game will be even more different to what both of them were imagening...
My current guess is that the new guy in charge doesn´t care about the game. He is only interessed that the game will be finished soon.
I believe many things will be cut (more than usually in game development) and many people like Brian & Cara have a problem with that. Or he is just firing all people who were problematic in his point of view. Maybe he can´t accept a No. Who knows?

Edit: Here is the tweet that she moves back to UK (or should i better say Scotland?)https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317143128814518280
Obviously no one is giving us answers, but with Mitsoda, Cluney, AND Ellison gone, too, the most logical explanation would be that the direction and writing for the game are effectively done and Paradox is desperately trying to get the game finished and out the door, but has terminated the aforementioned persons because it is hemorrhaging money by keeping upper staff members who have essentially completed their jobs are high-cost overhead to keep on the project if the finishing touches are being worked on for several more months.

Let us HOPE that's the case, because it would not change much - if anything - about the actual final product.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 08:15:11 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2020, 04:00:23 pm »
the most logical explanation would be that the direction and writing for the game are effectively done and Paradox is desperately trying to get the game finished and out the door, but has terminated the aforementioned persons because it is hemorrhaging money by keeping upper staff members who have essentially completed their jobs are high-cost overhead to keep on the project if the finishing touches are being worked on for several more months.
This is your favourite explanation, isn´t it?  :vampwink: I won´t say that this is the most logical one because again there is still work to do for the writers. I agree that the Bloodlines 2 basic game should be mostly done from the writing but there are still at least two free Clan DLCs, the two Story DLCs and the big fat Expansion.
Sorry but i believe that all of them (except Avellone because of the controversy) were fired because the new guy in control has only one goal in mind.
And this is finishing Bloodlines 2 production in the near future at all cost. And everyone who gets in his way will get fired.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 08:16:31 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 04:59:14 pm »
the most logical explanation would be that the direction and writing for the game are effectively done and Paradox is desperately trying to get the game finished and out the door, but has terminated the aforementioned persons because it is hemorrhaging money by keeping upper staff members who have essentially completed their jobs are high-cost overhead to keep on the project if the finishing touches are being worked on for several more months.
This is your favourite explanation, isn´t it?  :vampwink: I won´t say that this is the most logical one because again there is still work to do for the writers. I agree that the Bloodlines 2 basic game should be mostly done from the writing but there are still the at least two free Clan DLCs, the two Story DLCs and the big fat Expansion.
Sorry but i believe that all of them (except Avellone because of the controversy) were fired because the new guy in control has only one goal in mind.
And this is finishing Bloodlines 2 production in the near future at all cost. And everyone who gets in his way will get fired.

Well, I mean without new, conflicting evidence, why in the world would my theory change unless I'm a psycho? =p
I agree that getting Bloodlines 2 out the door quickly at all costs seems to be their primary goal right now, though that doesn't mean my theory isn't also correct concerning Mitsoda and Ellison. Two things can be true at once. They can want the game out the door ASAP, and they can also want to stop hemorrhaging money. Firing Cluney could help with getting it out the door fast, and letting Mitsoda and Ellison go could be saving money because their writing on the main game is done. Where are you getting information that the writing was incomplete on the main game? Obviously, I hope the expansion was fully written, but I have serious doubts about that...
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 08:17:37 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2020, 05:28:52 pm »
and letting Mitsoda and Ellison go could be saving money because their writing on the main game is done.
You don´t get it don´t you?  :laugh: Yeah the main game is from the writing aspect almost finished but who writes the DLCs and the expansion? Because there are in no way near as finished as the basic game. And don´t forget writers are also used as playtesters.
Also i seriously doubt that Mitsoda and Ellison are that expensive. Maybe both would work for less. Who knows Mitsoda even for almost free?
No, i believe they were fired because they don´t get along with Alexandre Mandryka and his vision of the game. Spoilerwarning: He has none and likely doesn´t care about the game and its story. He was only hired to finally skip this game soon.

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Where are you getting information that the writing was incomplete on the main game?
There are always Last Minute changes in the dialogues. Maybe i should be more precise. The voiced dialogues are done but the non ones like Player answers, questlog or tooltips could still be changed.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 08:54:36 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2020, 05:55:17 pm »
You don´t get it don´t you?  :laugh: Yeah the main game is from the writing aspect almost finished but who writes the DLCs and the expansion? Because there are in no way near as finished as the basic game.
Dude, my post you responded to literally said that I doubted the expansion writing was finished. So yes. Yes, I do get it...

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And don´t forget writers are also used as playtesters.
Perhaps by some developers. We don't know if they were using them to that end or not.
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Also i seriously doubt that Mitsoda and Ellison are that expensive. Maybe both would work for less. Who knows Mitsoda even for almost free?
Maybe they would. However, if they were asked to work for less, declined, then got let go without signing an NDA on it, then they could go public with it. By not offering them less money and just letting them go, they can't legitimately give a reason why they were let go without risking slander/libel charges.
And unless we assume that Paradox just hates money, they're not going to shake the faith of Bloodlines 1 fans by firing Mitsoda unless A) he needed to be fired because he was a serious problem for them, which could be any number of reasons, OR B) keeping him on for several more months with little to no writing left to do for main game would cost more money than the sales revenue they might lose from people familiar with Bloodlines getting angry and refusing to buy the game for that reason.

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No i believe they were fired because they don´t get along with Alexandre Mandryka and his vision of the game.
You're entitled to your beliefs. Where are you getting the information that Mitsoda and Mandryka disagreed? Your speculation requires the invention of major disagreements about the game which there is no information to support.

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Spoilerwarning: He has none and likely doesn´t care about the game and its story.
Where did anyone with knowledge about the project say he has no vision for the game? I don't believe he has one, but it's foolhardy to invent "facts."

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He was only hired to finally skip this game soon.

Based on Paradox's statements and the situation, this seems accurate.

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There are always Last Minute changes in the dialogues. Maybe i should be more precise. The voiced dialogues are done but the non ones like Player answers, questlog or tooltips could still be changed.
Even you or I could make those changes. I mean, we kinda have, right (I think you've tested?)? Whenever this community found errors or nonsensical player dialog in Bloodlines 1, we reported it, and Wesp fixed it. You don't need a professional writer to spot bad wording. Quality Assurance or anyone else in HSL/Paradox could handle this with line change suggestions. With the exception of Malkavian dialog, which it stands to reason was very deliberately written at a high level of scrutiny, most player lines aren't going to be "amazing writing," and if they're "flavorful" like some of the jokey player lines in Bloodlines 1, it tends to just be grammar that needs fixing.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 08:55:28 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2020, 06:28:15 pm »
My current guess is that the new guy in charge doesn´t care about the game. He is only interessed that the game will be finished soon. I believe many things will be cut (more than usually in game development) and many people like Brian & Cara have a problem with that.Or he is just firing all people who were problematic in his point of view. Maybe he can´t appect a No. Who knows?

Edit: Here is the tweet that she moves back to UK (or should i better say Scotland?)https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317143128814518280


I wonder if she'll say anything. I doubt it though, her approach might've been correct but she might be held back by a NDA of some form.


What a way to destroy a sequel to one of the greatest RPG's of all time. This all sucks so much.

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2020, 08:52:30 pm »
I wonder if she'll say anything. I doubt it though, her approach might've been correct but she might be held back by a NDA of some form.
If she doesn't say anything, I would see it as a bad sign. If this is all about their work being finished, like DarkProphet is still hoping, I would guess she could post something according to that! Like she finished her work on Bloodlines 2 and is now returning to Scotland for new projects. Giving fans some hope the game might end up good...

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2020, 09:05:10 pm »
What a way to destroy a sequel to one of the greatest RPG's of all time. This all sucks so much.
So if the game ends up sucking, obviously you can have a "Called it!" or "I told you so!" scenario for yourself. However, what is your plan if the game ends up being good? Will you claim you think it sucks to save face and stick to your guns? Or perhaps you won't say a word out of embarrassment of being wrong despite having been so sure of yourself? Or will you admit if you enjoy it and pretend like you never predicted it would be bad, hoping that everyone will simply forget all the things you said because they're so happy with the game and aren't thinking about your comments anymore?

For me, I simply haven't decided if the game is going to be good or not because we haven't been given sufficient information to draw a proper conclusion. It may well end up horrible, it may turn out great, or it could end up somewhere in between. Bloodlines 1 is my favorite game I've ever played, so I'm certainly uneasy about the situation. However, the fact remains that we do not have all the information and this far into the project, the loss of the terminated individuals may have little to no effect on the base game.

As I have said multiple times, there is far more reason to doubt the quality of the writing and direction of the expansion than the base game, since it will be of secondary importance to the base game.
I at least hope that you would like for Bloodlines 2 to be enjoyable, and that you have not predisposed yourself to hating it even if it somehow ends up in the same realm of quality as the first game. Perhaps I'm reading you wrong, but the impression I had gotten from some of your earlier posts was that you are completely against everything Bloodlines 2 once Mitsoda was let go...

Quote from: Wesp5
If this is all about their work being finished, like DarkProphet is still hoping, I would guess she could post something according to that! Like she finished her work on Bloodlines 2 and is now returning to Scotland for new projects.
If only. The fact they aren't posting anything like that is certainly unsettling. Then again, if Paradox openly sets a precedent that it will let its writers go if they get their work done before the rest of the game is ready...then Paradox's writers will deliberately make their work take longer, thus costing Paradox more money and hurting the company even more.
I really just wish everyone could be open and honest so we'd know what the hell is happening and draw our conclusions off of a healthy amount of facts. =/
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 09:09:40 pm by DarkProphet »

Offline Talyn82

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 10:18:18 pm »
Eh, after Mitsoda was fired this does not surprise me.  I will still wait for verified reviews before buying.  Because of my love for the original game I almost pre-purchased the game.  But that was before all of this controversy.  Now I'll just wait and see.  Hopefully it is as DarkProphet has said.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 10:19:52 pm by Talyn82 »

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2020, 10:16:08 am »
Cara Ellison found a new job as Senior Narrative Designer at League of Geeks. https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1317953668084199424
No mention of Paradox, Hardsuit Labs or Bloodlines 2. So yeah she can´t talk about this because of a signed NDA so therefore i still believe that she was fired. If her job was just done where would be a Say Goodbye Statement from her. But nothing.
At least we can put the speculations to bed that there was bad blood between her and Mitsoda. Some have believed Ellison was the reason  that Mitsoda was fired because Bloodlines 2 wasn´t "woke" enough but doesn´t look that in my opinion. In this Tweet she thanks Mitsoda. https://twitter.com/caraellison/status/1317904625664667650
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 11:33:26 am by Wesp5 »

Offline Sabbat_stalker

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2020, 10:59:20 am »
I suspect that Paradox have little confidence in the game and just want the production to be over at this point.
Unless it is a commercial sucess (which isn't guaranteed with a disillusioned community and sub par gameplay show so far) I doubt we will ever see the story DLC for the game.
I believe they just want to get the game out and try to recuperate as much production cost as possible, if that is their mindset then they have no need for writers to write more content for a game that doesn't sale.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 11:34:59 am by Wesp5 »

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2020, 02:33:51 pm »
At least we can put the speculations to bed that there was bad blood between her and Mitsoda. Some have believed Ellison was the reason  that Mitsoda was fired because Bloodlines 2 wasn´t "woke" enough but doesn´t look that in my opinion. In this Tweet she thanks Mitsoda. https://twitter.com/caraellison/status/1317904625664667650


That is such a wonderful tweet. Glad to know at least she wasn't the enemy some were making her out to be.


Sucks for Paradox though because the more we hear about this issue, the more the shitty parts of it point towards them. Bummer.

 

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