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Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Cara Ellison also fired?  (Read 9032 times)

Online Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2020, 03:13:13 pm »
I doubt we will ever see the story DLC for the game.
Well this is a really good question if Bloodlines 2 gets still its planned DLCs and the expansion.
I mean people already preordered and brought the Blood Moon Edition which includes in two Story DLCs and a big expansion.
Maybe they scrap this and gave people back their money?



« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 03:15:49 pm by Wilhelm-Streicher »

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2020, 03:25:58 pm »
Maybe they scrap this and gave people back their money


That would never happen. The community, if not made videogame outlets, would eat Paradox alive.


I think they'll just hire new writers and promote the shit out of them. Hopefully that'll work... if Mitsoda doesn't sue them first.

Online Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2020, 04:02:25 pm »
That would never happen. The community, if not made videogame outlets, would eat Paradox alive.
First "Never say never again"  :vampwink: but i think you are right.
If Bloodlines 2 was a one and only game for Paradox well this could happen but Paradox and other Publisher like Nacon (former BigBen Interactive) have big plans with Vampire and the World of Darkness IP. There can´t possible sink their flagship with this behavior.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 04:13:31 pm by Wesp5 »

Online Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2020, 06:35:47 pm »
Update: Cara Ellison left Hardsuit Labs in September.
https://twitter.com/caraellison/status/1318203078005432325
Wesp already made a comment on Reddit about this and i agree with him that this is a "very neutral answer and that "she probably isn't allowed to say anything else."
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 08:10:26 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2020, 10:23:10 pm »
Update: Cara Ellison left Hardsuit Labs in September.
https://twitter.com/caraellison/status/1318203078005432325
Wesp already made a comment on Reddit about this and i agree with him that this is a "very neutral answer and that "she probably isn't allowed to say anything else."

Thanks for sharing. It sounds like she quit since she says "I left in sept to work on other things." I do hope she shares more. I don't trust her as far as I can throw her, but I'd at least like someone with a confirmed identity to give a statement as to the specifics, though as I and others have said, there's likely an NDA. =p
Also, as for the expansion and DLCs, if they cancel them, customers will undoubtedly get refunds. I'd rather they not cancel them unless they are of terrible quality, though...

Online Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2020, 06:14:32 am »
Thanks for sharing.
You are welcome. Also want to share that i am proudly banned from the Paradox Forum. Normally i don´t like to talk about private stuff but here i make an exception.
No they didn´t bann me for some months, they made sure that i can´t post anything and therefore made me silent. I also can´t use anything. I can´t even use logout or read why i am banned. Classy.

I asked for a official statement and their statement to the whole Cara Ellison story is to make sure that nothing is wrong.
So i assumed my little "scoop" was something they want to hide because they don´t want bad press about Ellison after Mitsoda.

"You have been banned for the following reason: Rules violations. Your ban will be lifted on Jan 29, 2022 at 16:57."
Very interessing how they deal with critics who make them uncomfortable. I don´t think that it is possible because my ego isn´t near as big but i assume i cost them some sales.
Edit: Great news PC Gamer already made an article and force Paradox for an offical statement.
And after some hours the remaining major & international gaming site will likely cover this.
https://www.pcgamer.com/bloodlines-2-senior-narrative-designer-cara-ellison-has-left-the-project/

"We can confirm that Cara Ellison has decided to leave Hardsuit Labs and is no longer working on Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2," a Paradox spokesperson said. "Cara brought fresh ideas to the project and many of her contributions will be present in the game launching next year. We thank her for her work on Bloodlines 2 and wish her the best in all of her future endeavors."

"Paradox declined to comment on when Ellison left the project, or how it will impact the development of Bloodlines 2.
I've emailed Ellison for more information, and will update if I receive a reply."
 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 11:42:42 am by Wesp5 »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2020, 11:45:30 am »
I asked for a official statement and their statement to the whole Cara Ellison story is to make sure that nothing is wrong.
So i assumed my little "scoop" was something they want to hide because they don´t want bad press about Ellison after Mitsoda.
So to get this right, you asked on the Paradox Forum if Cara Ellison is still working on Bloodlines 2 and they just banned you?

Also somebody on RPGCodex found a Glassdoor review posted at the time Cara Ellison left and thinks it's written in her style:https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/vampire-the-masquerade-%E2%80%93-bloodlines-2-from-hardsuit-labs-and-paradox-interactive.126124/page-415
I have been working at Hardsuit Labs full-time for less than a year
 
 Pros
 
 It’s a development studio you can work at in Seattle
 
 Have fun events
 
 Pizza!
 
 If CEOs can’t understand your work, you’ll be able to finish it without constant questions and bad critiques
 
 Diverse studio, progressive studio outside of pipelines, welcoming of LGBTQ even if not fully inclusive in game content
 
 Cons
 
 Read the recent news, it’s all confusing for us too but good for design and story. just took too long to get rid of bad actors

 
 Poorly-trained old and new management, top to bottom, affects everything and difficult to get work done or tracked
 
 Cheap on one hand, wasteful on the other
 
 Can’t seem to have a studio meeting without announcing who’s gone this week
 
 Cowardly and poor performance feedback or none at all until too late, creates paranoia about who's next
 
 Hire developers and put no trust in them, especially game design
 
 No idea how to make an RPG and it’s shown for the past few years

 
 Game design needed a fresh restart, and senior designers hired need to be listened to
 
 Other producers need to be trained and need to do actual work
 
 Firings have made the news, and while necessary, could have been avoided through vetting when hiring

 
 Paradox is half in, half out, but all trouble
 
 Advice to Management
 
 Trust design to figure it out it’s why you hired us
 
 “Not as bad as it used to be” is NOT a good answer to issues
 
 Get through this project and scatter to the winds, maybe start smaller studios that do shooter clones and shooter DLC – games you understand

 
 Tell us when you’ll be in the office and when you’ll have the thing you promised actually done
 
 Free the programmers from outsourcing prison or let them go to actual game studios where they can make cool stuff
 
 Change your company motto from “we make great games” to “we’re still figuring it out bear with us”
 
 While diversity is good, could be improved and listened to
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 11:48:02 am by Wesp5 »

Online Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2020, 03:10:03 pm »
So to get this right, you asked on the Paradox Forum if Cara Ellison is still working on Bloodlines 2 and they just banned you?
Yes, i also had some discussions before where i talked about this topic with critism. I believe that i pissed them off with the Cara Ellison story which i made public and that i made critical assumption that maybe the new guy was responsible for this mess. But i was quickly corrected so yeah i think that i pissed off more Hardsuit Labs CEO Andy Kipling who was my next assumption of who made this terrible decisions.
It´s a simple strategy, if you can´t kill the message kill / silence the messager.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 04:50:42 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2020, 03:11:13 pm »
What a mess.


Thank you for your efforts in keeping us informed Wilhelm. Hopefully one day we'll be playing Bloodlines 3 (?) and laughing back at this nonsense.

Online Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2020, 03:21:36 pm »
Thank you for your efforts in keeping us informed Wilhelm.
I did for the Bloodlines Community.  :embarrassed:
We all have the right to know that the second most prominent dev after Mitsoda had left. Its more than obvious that Hardsuit Labs / Paradox really wanted to hide Cara Ellison's departure because they don´t want another Mitsoda shitstorm so Ellison was forced to sign a NDA.
I mean she already left HL sometime in September and only after my / our "investigation" and the press coverage they made this statement.
Also this was the same story as with Mitsoda. Someone noticed that Mitsoda had changed his twitter bio and that´s it.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 04:51:37 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2020, 03:41:24 pm »
Read the recent news, it’s all confusing for us too but good for design and story. just took too long to get rid of bad actors
 
Firings have made the news, and while necessary, could have been avoided through vetting when hiring
These are the two that interest me the most. If this is truly from Cara Ellison, then she thinks Cluney and Mitsoda were bad for the design and story, respectively. The only firings that made the news - to my knowledge - were those two, after all...

If this is from Cara Ellison, we then have to wonder "Was the story terrible and she's right?" OR "Was the story good but she hated it?" Obviously, political leanings (liberal/centrist writing vs. woke writing) or jealousy (Brian may have been a better writer than her and she was jealous) could play into things.
Or this could be someone else entirely who writes like that. Any person from Seattle in the gaming industry would probably hold the exact same opinions. It's still interesting to me, though...
Quote from: Highwayman667
Hopefully one day we'll be playing Bloodlines 3 (?) and laughing back at this nonsense.
Man, I sure hope so. If Bloodlines 2 doesn't do well enough, we may never see another VtM immersive sim. D':

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2020, 05:01:20 pm »
These are the two that interest me the most. If this is truly from Cara Ellison, then she thinks Cluney and Mitsoda were bad for the design and story, respectively. The only firings that made the news - to my knowledge - were those two, after all...
The person writing this review mentions firings each week! I don't think this is targeted at Cluney and Mitsoda as of course they were not hired, but central in starting the game. I would rather believe that this is all due to bad management especially since HSL grew for Bloodlines. Earlier reviews are quite positive, but this one mentions "Poorly-trained old and new management, top to bottom" and "producers need to be trained and need to do actual work" and "Paradox is half in, half out, but all trouble". I imagine management meddling with development work without knowing enough about it, like "Hire developers and put no trust in them, especially game design" and "senior designers hired need to be listened to" and "Trust design to figure it out it’s why you hired us". I see Cluney, Mitsoda and Ellison as designer, but someone in management knew better what they should do.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 05:06:38 pm by Wesp5 »

Online Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2020, 05:37:54 pm »
I would rather believe that this is all due to bad management especially since HSL grew for Bloodlines... I see Cluney, Mitsoda and Ellison as designer, but someone in management knew better what they should do.
I believe that this person is very likely Hardsuit Labs Boss Andy Kipling himself. Paradox have a 33% share in HL but they don´t owe them at least for now. So the main problems must come from HL itself and not that much from Paradox. Maybe the reason why all this had happened lies with HL. They never have made a RPG before also as the remains of Zombie Studios well they never made a game which was better than average. Spec Ops was a series nobody have cared only after Yager made Spec Ops the Line.
Their "best" game would be in my opinion Daylight which was ok i guess.
But we trusted HL because they had Mitsoda and Ellison as writers and hey its Bloodlines 2. Maybe we won´t want to know that HL was never the right studio for this task.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie_Studios
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 07:06:24 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2020, 06:35:49 pm »
Maybe we won´t want to know that HL was never the right studio for this task.
Or they are and the person writing the assessment has a differing opinion. We won't know how Bloodlines 2 is until it's out, and we may be pleasantly surprised. I'm not super optimistic, but I hope it'll be fun.

Online Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Cara Ellison also fired?
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2020, 08:39:35 pm »
Or they are and the person writing the assessment has a differing opinion. We won't know how Bloodlines 2 is until it's out, and we may be pleasantly surprised. I'm not super optimistic, but I hope it'll be fun.
Well you are still an optimistic. I have the feeling after all what happen that this maybe at best a 60-70% rated game if the Story from Mitsoda and Ellison is almost finished but i won´t count on that. No i think that we have a great disappointment to look forward with this title. Of course i could be wrong but i really doubt that.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 09:35:15 am by Wesp5 »

 

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