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Offline Wesp5

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2020, 12:02:58 pm »
Brian was fired a month ago, she must have known about it for a while now, and if by now she wasn't let go, it's because she'll stay on board.
This is worrying. I don't know much about her, but there is a lot on the web that makes her appear very woke. Can we now expect any witty line of Brian to be absolutely politically correctly rewritten by Cara?

Offline mdqp

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2020, 12:55:01 pm »
This is worrying. I don't know much about her, but there is a lot on the web that makes her appear very woke. Can we now expect any witty line of Brian to be absolutely politically correctly rewritten by Cara?
Honestly, it all depends on what really went down with the decision to fire Brian. I don't think they are going to rewrite the whole thing, so what changes and what stays depends on what was the point of contention.

I presume they might want to make a "safer" game than what Brian would have done, so they might cut/avoid some of the more adult or visceral stuff, but this is all speculation on my end. I feel this is the more reasonable scenario (someone wanted to play it safe, Brian refused because he thought it was good, and his friend/creative directore agreed and backed him up, and since they didn't budge they decided to go behind their back).

This is all still very confusing, however, because Brian says he didn't expect this, so it might very well be a lot of minor stuff, that Brian assumed wouldn't be a big deal, or some thematic stuff he felt should fall under his realm and so couldn't imagine having big repercussions. It's really hard to figure out what went down, with what little we know.

One thing I know, is that now I want to try a demo or something, before putting money down (well, I guess buying and refunding is also an option).

As for Cara's influence, who knows. I just hope this doesn't turn into a trainwreck, but it might already be too late.

Offline Pyoro-2

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2020, 04:26:51 pm »
Some of this speculation really baffles me. Some sort of internal writer coup, Brian maybe committing some sort of sexual harassment, Paradox suddenly going all snowflake on its products, who know what else people write elsewhere ... there's literally zero evidence for any of these things. And, I mean, I get it, people will speculate when stuff like this happens, but I feel like being a bit more grounded would be appropriate.


Game was delayed, obviously something in the production is not going well. They let some people go, and brought someone new from outside in. That's about the extent of things we know.

Offline mdqp

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2020, 05:03:47 pm »
Some of this speculation really baffles me. Some sort of internal writer coup, Brian maybe committing some sort of sexual harassment, Paradox suddenly going all snowflake on its products, who know what else people write elsewhere ... there's literally zero evidence for any of these things. And, I mean, I get it, people will speculate when stuff like this happens, but I feel like being a bit more grounded would be appropriate.


Game was delayed, obviously something in the production is not going well. They let some people go, and brought someone new from outside in. That's about the extent of things we know.
As for the sexual harassment, it has already been declared as to not be the case by devs on Discord (and by Outstar as well, if I remember correctly), so it has really no basis.

The speculations are kind of expected though, since Brian was a big thing for many fans, and he seems like he didn't expect to be sacked, nor did he know about further delays before the announcement happened.

It's also an educated guess that the writing is under the microscope at Paradox, given this context (if Brian had finished the job and parted ways after that, these theatrics wouldn't have happened, not like this at least).

It's very far in development, so they can't change the whole thing completely (they probably don't even want to do that anyway), and I am sure the technical aspects of the game are also being scrutinized, but this was handled very poorly by the companies involved, and it reeks of some last minute "design by commitee" bullshit to make the game more palatable to a large audience (or just "fix" the game). The alternatives are all worse, actually, like the writer coup or some other insane plot twist.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 05:09:16 pm by mdqp »

Offline Avadonica

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2020, 05:12:55 pm »
Minute of the joke.
Its seems like a conspiracy of the Camarilla or perhaps, exist a real vampires, whom we don't know, and they intervened in production of this game... who knows. :rofl:
I thought that the Bloodlines 2 awaits the same fate as the first Bloodlines... but, I hope so we've got to the chance for a good game.

Offline Pyoro-2

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2020, 05:17:25 pm »
Obviously the "writing department" (like all others) would be under scrutiny if they feel like major changes are necessary at this point, and it might very well be that this lead to Brian's departure for whichever reason.

But this "they might not want it to be as visceral ..." "they are aiming for a more PG audience" "it's all about political correctness" theories - you are talking about the company that introduced its next flag ship product with a trailer that has a baby murdered by a snake, greenlit the trailer for this one that features a serial killer playing around with his victims etcetc. There's just no evidence at all that this is a direction PDX is pursuing in any shape or form.


So, yeah, I find the kneejerk and unfounded speculation in this specific direction misguided and somewhat annoying. It'd be different if there had been any clear indications of something like this happening in the past, or Brian in presentations notable having different opinions on the writing than other people from PDX or the project, but as far as I know there's absolutely nothing like this anywhere.


Personally I'm more and more convinced that the decision behind this was at least in part a financial one. Delays cost money, some of those let go are undoubtedly well paid, and their roles are perhaps not necessary needed to finish the game as - from everything we've seen - the core issues seem to be more likely in other departments.
Since HSL can't exactly say "oops, we've run out of cash, they need to go" that'd also explain why we don't have any sort of real explanation. Otherwise I'm sure there'd be some sort of "difference in creative vision" or whatever announcement.


Obviously that's just speculation too with little evidence (HSL did get a loan but then companies get loans all the time), but it at least seems vaguely consistent to me.

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2020, 05:29:43 pm »
As for the sexual harassment, it has already been declared as to not be the case by devs on Discord (and by Outstar as well, if I remember correctly), so it has really no basis.
Correct.


Also one very important detail which Wesp have mention in this thread "the two German producers were also moved (but not fired???) away from Bloodlines 2".
Like i said i believe the theory that Mitsoda & co wanted an improved Bloodlines 1 but Paradox want something bigger more mainstream.

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2020, 05:50:42 pm »
Brian was fired a month ago, she must have known about it for a while now, and if by now she wasn't let go, it's because she'll stay on board.

Am I understanding this correctly ? He was fired a month ago and wasn't told ? Or did everyone just break the news yesterday ?

Honestly... Brian Mitsoda should sue Paradox.

Offline Happydeathclaw

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2020, 05:52:09 pm »

Like i said i believe the theory that Mitsoda & co wanted an improved Bloodlines 1 but Paradox want something bigger more mainstream.


Money talks bullshit walks, saving the spirit of Bloodlines is a threat to future sellings, typical.

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2020, 05:58:11 pm »
Am I understanding this correctly ? He was fired a month ago and wasn't told ? Or did everyone just break the news yesterday ?
Brian Mitsoda was clearly before yesterday under NDA.He mentions in his statement that he was suddenly terminated on 7/16/20.
Money talks bullshit walks, saving the spirit of Bloodlines is a threat to future sellings, typical.
Well Mitsoda and friends have know that Bloodlines 2 isn´t a big rival to Cyberpunk. Its a niche game. But Paradox want more.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 06:01:50 pm by Wilhelm-Streicher »

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2020, 06:05:51 pm »
Thanks for clearing it up Wilhelm. I don't know honestly what to do with this yet.

I don't think I've ever felt like I had to boycott a game like this but... I just might have to :58_83:

Offline mdqp

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2020, 06:20:03 pm »
Obviously the "writing department" (like all others) would be under scrutiny if they feel like major changes are necessary at this point, and it might very well be that this lead to Brian's departure for whichever reason.

But this "they might not want it to be as visceral ..." "they are aiming for a more PG audience" "it's all about political correctness" theories - you are talking about the company that introduced its next flag ship product with a trailer that has a baby murdered by a snake, greenlit the trailer for this one that features a serial killer playing around with his victims etcetc. There's just no evidence at all that this is a direction PDX is pursuing in any shape or form.


So, yeah, I find the kneejerk and unfounded speculation in this specific direction misguided and somewhat annoying. It'd be different if there had been any clear indications of something like this happening in the past, or Brian in presentations notable having different opinions on the writing than other people from PDX or the project, but as far as I know there's absolutely nothing like this anywhere.


Personally I'm more and more convinced that the decision behind this was at least in part a financial one. Delays cost money, some of those let go are undoubtedly well paid, and their roles are perhaps not necessary needed to finish the game as - from everything we've seen - the core issues seem to be more likely in other departments.
Since HSL can't exactly say "oops, we've run out of cash, they need to go" that'd also explain why we don't have any sort of real explanation. Otherwise I'm sure there'd be some sort of "difference in creative vision" or whatever announcement.


Obviously that's just speculation too with little evidence (HSL did get a loan but then companies get loans all the time), but it at least seems vaguely consistent to me.
I demand you add at least 2 or 3 more speculations and conspiracy theories to your post, otherwise I'll be annoyed as well!  :razz:

Joking aside, I think you aren't grasping the reason why people are assuming the worst. Brian was let go seemingly out of nowhere, they waited a month to announce it and since they announced it it's pretty obvious they don't see it as "business as usual". If they had a reason, they would have told Mitsoda and probably warned him beforehand. We can assume Brian is lying, but frankly, I am going to admit I find him to be a genuine person, from what I have seen (call me crazy to believe this without knowing him in person).

If the writing is in doubt, the main link to VTMB 1 is also being questioned (that is, Brian's work). You don't make someone important to the fanbase your poster child, and then expect people to nod sagely as they try to grasp what is going on with his abrupt departure. Speculations is all we have, and we care about the topic, so speculating is what we'll do.

Personally, I'd also like that warm fuzzy feeling of being right about my hunch, should we ever learn more and be proven correct.  :angel:
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 06:28:06 pm by mdqp »

Offline Happydeathclaw

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2020, 06:20:55 pm »
Am I understanding this correctly ? He was fired a month ago and wasn't told ? Or did everyone just break the news yesterday ?
Brian Mitsoda was clearly before yesterday under NDA.He mentions in his statement that he was suddenly terminated on 7/16/20.
Money talks bullshit walks, saving the spirit of Bloodlines is a threat to future sellings, typical.
Well Mitsoda and friends have know that Bloodlines 2 isn´t a big rival to Cyberpunk. Its a niche game. But Paradox want more.


Of course they do like many others before them, that's the problem.

Offline Sabbat_stalker

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2020, 06:37:46 pm »
I suspect the publisher  want to sanitise a few aspects of the game (crusader king schenanigans is one thing, but people will chimp out more if contemperary issues are shown in the game).
 The only other thing I can think of is maybe they needed to save money and his writing was no longer required ?

This game seems to be getting more dissapointing the more I hear about it truth be told. Hopefully it is still an enjoyable story with his writing mostly intacted.

Offline Happydeathclaw

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Re: Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney have been fired
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2020, 06:41:07 pm »
Ah fuck it, I'll better wait for Avowed from Obsidian.

 

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