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Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 => Bloodlines 2 General discussion => Topic started by: EeeKitties on March 22, 2019, 08:13:51 pm

Title: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: EeeKitties on March 22, 2019, 08:13:51 pm
Update: New ARG (https://www.bloodfortrade.com), see this Discord (https://discordapp.com/invite/YRGwPjV) for answers. Gain Bloodpoints  (see here (https://www.bloodlines2.com/?ref=3783d1fffcf8)) for completing if you have a Paradox account and unlock rewards for Bloodlines 2.

Official
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Signothorn on March 22, 2019, 10:00:24 pm
Great post, thanks! Let's keep this thread about links pointing to content, not opinion or commentary about them. We have another thread for that. We'll delete any posts that don't follow this guideline.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on March 22, 2019, 11:56:34 pm
Well, how about some linkage to the pre-order game cards on GOG then, too:

Standard Edition (https://www.gog.com/game/vampire_the_masquerade_bloodlines_2)
Unsactioned Edition (https://www.gog.com/game/vampire_the_masquerade_bloodlines_2_unsanctioned_edition)
Blood Moon Edition (https://www.gog.com/game/vampire_the_masquerade_bloodlines_2_blood_moon_edition)

Plus the one for the OG Bloodlines, as of now (03-23-19) at 75% off:
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (https://www.gog.com/game/vampire_the_masquerade_bloodlines)




Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: J3ster on March 23, 2019, 08:23:40 am
Bloodlines 2 announcement keynote video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8qsxNt3f0Y)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on March 23, 2019, 01:33:29 pm
Shacknews: Interview with senior product manager Florian Schwarzer & creative director Martin Ka'ai Cluney (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hxp0lZjrNo)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: J3ster on March 23, 2019, 10:27:59 pm
USgamer.net first details (https://www.usgamer.net/articles/vampire-masquerade-bloodlines-2-first-details)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on March 24, 2019, 12:51:44 pm
A very important reassurement, especially after other major and indie titles are and are going to be held hostage on that one store for the first 12 months:

"We are committed to making and keeping #bloodlines2 available across Steam, Paradox store, GOG and Epic and we will also be selling it on PS4 and Xbox One"

https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1109625631636156416

And once more:

"We will not be exclusive to Epic - we will be available on the Paradox store, Steam, GOG, Epic and you will also be able to buy it on PS4 and Xbox One."

https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1109879538635415554
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on March 24, 2019, 09:29:28 pm
In regards to a physical collector's edition:

"There are talks about it but nothing is confirmed yet. We will let you know as soon as there is news on that."

https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1109881702770454529
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on April 09, 2019, 01:55:52 am
Probably have come across the leaked character renders already, especially if you're a frequent reddit user, but in case anyone's missed them:

(https://i.imgur.com/Do9ErFG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/GZiAn5p.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/I1Pre5U.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/2oo5owr.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SWAYRin.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UN7RIer.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8nZ16xS.jpg)

When they were still available on art station the lady in red was tagged Christina Hendricks "Lou" and the lady in green "Lillian".
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on April 09, 2019, 02:26:14 pm
"The Return of Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines" Interview with Brian Mitsoda & Christian Schlütter by Noclip:

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 13, 2019, 01:42:50 am
Gotta love Mitsoda's voice, he MUST do another character in Bloodlines 2.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on April 13, 2019, 08:32:51 am
Gotta love Mitsoda's voice, he MUST do another character in Bloodlines 2.

It's amazing, isn't it? I could listen to him talk for hours. Even he was reading off caffeteria menus, I'd be enjoying myself.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 15, 2019, 02:44:04 am
It's amazing, isn't it? I could listen to him talk for hours. Even he was reading off caffeteria menus, I'd be enjoying myself.

Maybe Romero can come back, there's no scenario where he dies after all.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on April 15, 2019, 01:26:42 pm
Maybe Romero can come back, there's no scenario where he dies after all.

I wonder what would Isaac's ghoul be doing in Seattle. I guess finding an excuse is always possible, but who knows.

I really hope they start dropping some more information, even if it might be better for the marketing if they wait (the release is pretty far away, after all).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 16, 2019, 06:09:43 am
I wonder what would Isaac's ghoul be doing in Seattle. I guess finding an excuse is always possible, but who knows.

Scouting locations for a new film ? Any excuse is a good excuse !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on April 17, 2019, 11:35:26 am
Summary of "most of the relevant info" from the May issue of PC Gamer magazine (via the Paradox forums (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/what-we-know-so-far.1163043/page-17#post-25358754))

Quote
- another confirmation that appearance and backstory can be customised before the game starts
- after the illegal mass embrace has taken place you awake in what appears to be a courthouse
- representatives from multiple factions (including the Camarilla) are present to watch the PC's trial and execution
- shortly after you have been given the chance to recount what has transpired from your perspective, the building is suddenly on fire giving the PC the opportunity to escape
- escaping from the building is the tutorial section

- the decision to let you pick a clan later on was made for both narrative as well as (game) mechanical reasons
- one of them are the political problems with thin-bloods (including the PC), which makes for a perfect and challenging starting situation, also in regards to how character progression in RPGs usually works
- starting as a thin-blood gives the player more time for getting to know the clans and then later make a well-informed decision based on what you've learned
- still no definitive confirmation which of the clans will be included in the initial 5 playable ones
- the reduction to 5 initially available clans was done to "deliver a clear player-fantasy", like a specific clan for "punching people in the face" while another clan will be perfect for "playing a wizard or something"
- the later choice of clan gives the PC access to unique abilites, as well as to unique locations

- 'Bald Vampire' from the screenshots is described as "grilling you in the introduction"

- at the end of the tutorial the player has to make the choice in which of the three initial disciplines (Mentalism, Nebulation and Chiropteran) to specialize in and unlock its subset of skills

- levels are designed to be navigated in multiple ways (illustrated by 3 different approaches to overcome a gap):

1. By transforming into mist, you can slip through a nearby vent leading to the opposite side of the gap
2. Using your telekinesis, you can create an alternate path to the opposite side by ripping out an industrial fan from the wall
3. The most straightforward approach - use your bat-like wings to fly over the gap

- besides the original Bloodlines the primary inspirations for environmental/level design are System Shock, the original Deus Ex and Dishonored which are praised for the "freedom to explore the world but also tackle different situations in the way that you as a player want"

- after the escape from the burning courthouse the PC makes his way through the underground ruins of old Seattle, which plays a significant role, such as being the counterpart to modern 'surface Seattle' with its gazillion-dollar (tech) companies and corporations, for example

- after making it through Seattle's underbelly(?) the PC emerges on the waterfront of Pier 57
- while approaching the pier the PC is described as coming across a man handing the PC a mobile phone, which has a "mysterious woman" on the other end of the line, instructing the PC on how to feed
- which works more or less like in the original Bloodlines, with a penalty in form of humanity loss upon killing resp. drinking the victim or blood puppet dry
- the PC is told (again, via phone) to meet someone up on the pier
- another confirmation that Bloodlines 2 is fully voiced by a cast that's "maybe the best of any game"
- after having entered a building on the pier the PC is attacked by a couple thugs
- further confirmation to get melee combat in particular right this time
- the first-person-melee combat is described as "up-close and personal" and as a "highly improvisational system" with "using fist, objects in the environment and powers to gain an edge" (yanking firearms out of the opponents' hands, dropping on opponents after having taken flight, etc)
- the PC will be able to hold and equip 2 melee and 2 ranged weapons at any time
- further confirmation of the weapons' degredation
- communicating the PC's supernatural, superhuman power, speed and resilience (especially when unarmed) is of utmost importance
- further confirmation of high-level "devastating special moves" in third-person-perspective
- having survived the fight against the thugs the PC meets one of the fellow thin-bloods created during the mass embrace, only to witness his sudden demise by the hands of a vampire heard whispering "You're not on my list" to the PC before vanishing

- one of the side-quests involves looking for the other remaining thin-bloods (the so-called "Unsactioned Seven") of the the mass embrace
- this particular side-quest is described as exploring "what happens to a completely normal human, with all their wants and needs and life situations, when they suddenly get turned into a vampire"

- after the pier the PC gets access to the first haven or safehouse, which is Dale Talley's (Bloodlines 2's Smiling Jack) apartment as previously seen in the cinematic reveal trailer
- conversational skills as well as abilities will again affect dialogue and dialogue options

- Mitsoda was "keen to retain the noir-ish vibe and black humour of Bloodlines 1" and Bloodlines 2 has "just been incredibly fun to write"
- "the characters are some of my favourite characters that I’ve ever done for a game, and Paradox has given me a lot of freedom, which I’m not used to from the publisher side, just kind of going, ‘What do you want to do?’.”
- further confirmation that familiar faces from the original Bloodlines are to return

- the apartment has a "pinboard covered with notes and documents" put together by the thin-blood that earlier was killed (in front of the PC) while figuring out and uncover the reason behind him being turned

- Bloodlines 2's approach to quest design is described as "closer in spirit to the original" than the hand-holding approach of most modern RPGs
- quest-relevant NPCs won't have floating exclamation marks above their heads and the player will have to rely on exploration and interaction with NPCs to discover new quests, stories and adventures
- "among the documentation, for example, is a missing cat poster. As you explore Seattle, you’ll find greater concentrations of missing cat posters in certain areas and, if you take the time to investigate the phenomenon, you can eventually discover where all the cats have gone, and why they have disappeared..."
- quests and questlines "can be stumbled upon" while "others may arise depending on how you play Bloodlines 2"

- the player will be able to work for factions other than the Camarilla this time around
- which will also play into the overall experience, that can vastly differ depending on favoring one faction or factions over or spoiling things with others to the point where they refuse to work with the PC

- upholding the masquerade is also a key part to the PC's reputation
- violations can happen in small (feeding in public) and bigger varieties (going on a rampage or killing spree) and will have ramifications for both the PC as well as Seattle
- "people will be less likely to go out at night, meaning you’ll have fewer bodies to feed on, while repeated violations may cause Seattle’s chief vampire, Prince Cross, to send supernatural enforcers after you"
- masquerade can be restored in several ways but only to a certain extent
- "one way to do this is to join Prince Cross’ clean-up crew, which clears up the messes left behind by Masquerade-violating vampires"

- "the clean-up crew exemplifies the weirdness Mitsoda and Hardsuit are hoping to carry over from Bloodlines to the sequel. The organisation is run by a man named Bart, who has seen every kind of horror imaginable and is completely numb to it. An early quest involves clearing the mess left behind after a disastrous romantic entanglement between a vampire and a human. 'If someone exploded in a small hotel room, that’s what that would look like,' Schlütter explains. "You’re there to just pick up the pieces. Literally, the pieces. And Bart just comments on whatever is there, eating his noodle-soup."

- further emphasis on "organic" exploration in Bloodlines 2, extending beyond the discovery of quests or figuring out how to solve them
- in the early game it's mainly the choice of the PC's character background that will impact the overall experience most
- "if you choose Police Officer, for example, then should you need to visit the police station, you don’t have to find a back entrance and sneak around, you can just walk through the front. But even this comes with complications. "Your colleague will come and say 'Hey where have you been the last two weeks? Social security has covered for you, but you need to get back to work'," Schlütter says"

- "many other systems and ideas" that the author of the PC Gamer article "barely touched upon"
- Hardsuit Labs "set out to provide as many active unlocks as possible during your progression system" while "there will be extensive customisation options that let you enrobe your vampire however you like"
- further description of the "resonance" system ("flavoured" blood affected by the NPC's individual emotional state which when feeding carries over and, in case of 'anger-flavoured' blood results in a short-term melee damage buff)
- feeding on people with the same emotional state repeatedly may even unlock a permanent passive bonus
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Barabbah on April 17, 2019, 02:21:33 pm
(https://media.giphy.com/media/fnpy7E5Sm1LSOvHvu8/giphy.gif)

Anyway, my comment on some of the points....
- choosing the clan later: that's a good idea. I know many picked up the malkette in their first game so playing with the madness led to absolute confusion
- greatest cast for a videogame: then this means at least Grey DeLisle, Tim Curry and Michael Caine
- confirmation of third-person special attacks: then third-person is confirmed
- return of bloodlines characters: Grey DeLisle, told ya :P
- missing cats posters: cats!!! :3  <3<3<3
- Bart: I would ask him if he wants some fresh meat on his soup (hehehe)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: argikt on April 17, 2019, 02:45:03 pm
"further confirmation of high-level "devastating special moves" in third-person-perspective" is not a confirmation of third person gaming, is some kind of cinematic animation. You can't play  when  "devastating special move" is playing...

Sad news... (for me)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on April 17, 2019, 03:19:33 pm
"further confirmation of high-level "devastating special moves" in third-person-perspective" is not a confirmation of third person gaming, is some kind of cinematic animation.

Still, if they created third person animations for these moves, you can probably mod this into full third person animations somehow...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Barabbah on April 17, 2019, 03:33:46 pm
Niiice, then only special animations will be available. Flying kicks for everyone!!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 18, 2019, 01:56:49 pm
"further confirmation of high-level "devastating special moves" in third-person-perspective" is not a confirmation of third person gaming, is some kind of cinematic animation. You can't play  when  "devastating special move" is playing...

Sad news... (for me)

I'm down for this, we get great visuals at least.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on April 22, 2019, 01:55:02 am
"further confirmation of high-level "devastating special moves" in third-person-perspective" is not a confirmation of third person gaming, is some kind of cinematic animation. You can't play  when  "devastating special move" is playing...

Sad news... (for me)

What's kinda funny is that the third person "devastating special move" thing is kinda what that one Doom mod for '90s Doom did.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 23, 2019, 01:47:58 am
What's kinda funny is that the third person "devastating special move" thing is kinda what that one Doom mod for '90s Doom did.

Hey... learnin' from the best.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: EeeKitties on April 24, 2019, 04:09:30 pm
Just noticed this tweet a bit late:

https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1120726545343995904
"Tomorrow at 18:00 CEST we will be showing you the first of the many faces behind the Masquerade. Tune into the stream on https://twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive … for an interview with Florian Schwarzer, Sr. Product Manager on #bloodlines2!" 5:30 PM - 23 Apr 2019

That's in an hour! Will post the VOD link afterwards.

VOD (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/415710551?t=2h0m37s), if timestamp link doesn't work it starts at 2 hours in, sadly it's only for half an hour. They said they will try to stream every Wednesday but next week will be on a Thursday.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on April 24, 2019, 07:37:03 pm
And here it is: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/415710551?t=02h38s
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on April 24, 2019, 09:19:18 pm
And here it is: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/415710551?t=02h38s

Man, when I first checked the link, I was ecstatic about 2 hours of news, only to find out it wasn't nearly as much, and it was meant as an introduction for new players, mostly... At least they hinted that they will be revealing the clans throughout the future streams, and we know we won't be able to keep playing as a thin blood almost assuredly.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on April 25, 2019, 12:20:08 am
Clan Introduction - Thinbloods - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2


Including a very brief look at pre-alpha Bat Swarm in action towards the end.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 25, 2019, 06:47:28 am
BATS. YOU CAN THROW BATS AT PEOPLE =D !!!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Barabbah on April 25, 2019, 09:27:32 pm
BATS. YOU CAN THROW BATS AT PEOPLE =D !!!

I haven't yet watched it but how you wrote that down seems like you can use dead bats as throwable rocks :razz:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 26, 2019, 01:23:35 am
I haven't yet watched it but how you wrote that down seems like you can use dead bats as throwable rocks :razz:

Or baseball bats ?

Just Murciélagos though... no wooden clubs involved.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Barabbah on April 26, 2019, 02:50:30 pm
I haven't yet watched it but how you wrote that down seems like you can use dead bats as throwable rocks :razz:

Or baseball bats ?

Just Murciélagos though... no wooden clubs involved.

Throwning lamborghinis? Ok, thin bloods needed something to show they aren't all that weak, but this is too much XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 27, 2019, 05:07:48 am
Throwning lamborghinis? Ok, thin bloods needed something to show they aren't all that weak, but this is too much XD

Nobody will want to be any clan after seeing what Thin-Bloods are capable of !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on April 27, 2019, 10:29:35 am
A new interview with Florian Schwarzer:
https://worldofdarkness.news/Home/ArtMID/384/userid/1/ArticleID/67/EXCLUSIVE-Florian-Schwarzer-Bloodlines-2-Interview-for-WoD-News
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 27, 2019, 12:22:15 pm
A new interview with Florian Schwarzer:
https://worldofdarkness.news/Home/ArtMID/384/userid/1/ArticleID/67/EXCLUSIVE-Florian-Schwarzer-Bloodlines-2-Interview-for-WoD-News

Not fully convinced about his reason for a "first person view only" design, but at least it's confirmed we have some third person !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on April 28, 2019, 04:06:28 pm
A new interview with Florian Schwarzer:
https://worldofdarkness.news/Home/ArtMID/384/userid/1/ArticleID/67/EXCLUSIVE-Florian-Schwarzer-Bloodlines-2-Interview-for-WoD-News

Not fully convinced about his reason for a "first person view only" design, but at least it's confirmed we have some third person !

Considering the games they reportedly draw inspiration from the most gameplay-wise (namely System Shock and the original Deus Ex, among others) the emphasis on first person perspective actually makes a whole lot of sense. CDPR and their "maximizing the immersion for the player" argument they brought up in that glorious 48 min Cyberpunk 2077 gamescom gameplay demo might have helped to tip the scales in favour of Hardsuit Labs committing to first person perspective in Bloodlines 2 too. If that part where V, the protagonist in Cyberpunk 2077 gets her cybernetic eye swapped for a better one doesn't win one over then I guess nothing will.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 28, 2019, 07:39:51 pm
Considering the games they reportedly draw inspiration from the most gameplay-wise (namely System Shock and the original Deus Ex, among others) the emphasis on first person perspective actually makes a whole lot of sense. CDPR and their "maximizing the immersion for the player" argument they brought up in that glorious 48 min Cyberpunk 2077 gamescom gameplay demo might have helped to tip the scales in favour of Hardsuit Labs committing to first person perspective in Bloodlines 2 too. If that part where V, the protagonist in Cyberpunk 2077 gets her cybernetic eye swapped for a better one doesn't win one over then I guess nothing will.

Bloodlines 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 in the same sentence ? Oooooohhhh yeeeessssss ^^ !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Barabbah on April 28, 2019, 08:50:08 pm
Honestly I prefer a 1st person only gameplay, open to the implementation of the 3rd one through modding, than having both but bugged. Or being closed to modding "tighter than a nun's arse" (cit.)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on April 29, 2019, 05:21:20 am
From the interview Wesp posted a link to: "Similarly, as a P&P player, I adore V5’s hunger mechanic: It helps me inform my roleplaying. In Bloodlines 2, its randomization would be quite frustrating. That’s why our designers opted to stick with blood points."

HA! I called it! I doubted they would do that 50% chance crap in an action RPG since it would just be a massive source of save-scumming encouragement that wouldn't allow for planned usage of disciplines in combat.

Also, the same interview mentions that Willpower will be a stat. That's interesting because in the pen and paper, it typically serves two purposes: helping with humanity rolls (which I doubt this will have), and letting you reroll failed dice rolls (up to three non-hunger dice in a roll of your dice), costing you the point until you've rested again at which point some recover, and you can also take aggravated willpower damage in the pen and paper if you exceed your max willpower points such as when trying to resist frenzy and maintain control of yourself, and those take longer to recover.

In any case, I'm unsure what they'll use willpower for here since almost all of the above things except frenzy checks aren't very action RPG-friendly...and humanity is a stat which would work just fine on its own for those checks. My GUESS as to what they'll use it for, though...would be for resistance against Hunter abilities and other Kindred abilities such as resisting temporary stat losses from enemies using Presence, various Hunter Numina, Edges, or whatever they're calling their abilities in the rule books these days. Anywho...eager to learn more.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Barabbah on April 29, 2019, 07:11:12 am
The trailer of this game isn't ashamed to show save scumming even being all cinematics:


https://youtube.com/watch?v=lUoXrNT8M_M (https://youtube.com/watch?v=lUoXrNT8M_M)

Furthermore they also released an even more bladant edit of the video


https://youtube.com/watch?v=QDG4_ljP9-s (https://youtube.com/watch?v=QDG4_ljP9-s)

They didn't removed in game saving in favor of chech point crap.
They don't give you bullshit excuses.
Simply, they have embraced it (in the common non-vampiric sense) <3
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Barabbah on April 29, 2019, 11:24:20 pm
Anyway, back on topic with a really interesting link and yet back offtopic since is about troika's planned sequel:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/troika-werewolf-game
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on April 30, 2019, 02:07:57 am
Anyway, back on topic with a really interesting link and yet back offtopic since is about troika's planned sequel:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/troika-werewolf-game

Oh lord... didn't realize how bad I want this now.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: argikt on May 02, 2019, 02:31:26 pm
I found this article:
https://thebreakingnewsheadlines.com/blog/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2s-first-full-blood-clan-is-the-brujah/

even the font, not sure is for real, because in bloodlines2 portal second clan circle still display "coming soon"
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 02, 2019, 02:41:38 pm
I found this article:
https://thebreakingnewsheadlines.com/blog/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2s-first-full-blood-clan-is-the-brujah/

The full reveal will indeed be today and this is probably a rip off of the PCGamer article below (notice Efficiency instead of Potency):
https://www.pcgamer.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-brujah-reveal/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 02:42:27 pm
I found this article:
https://thebreakingnewsheadlines.com/blog/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2s-first-full-blood-clan-is-the-brujah/

even the font, not sure is for real, because in bloodlines2 portal second clan circle still display "coming soon"
It is legit.
Their Source is PCGamer.
https://www.pcgamer.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-brujah-reveal/#comment-jump

https://bloody-disgusting.com/video-games/3559011/brujah-clan-revealed-detailed-bloodlines-2/
This one already has the Brujah Video.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 02, 2019, 03:37:05 pm
Interesting, it seems you keep your thin blood discipline and get only two others...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 03:59:24 pm
Interesting, it seems you keep your thin blood discipline and get only two others...
Maybe this decision was make because of console limitation or to make each clan unique?

Brujah: Potency and Celerity
Toreador:  Auspex and Presence?
Venture: Dominate and Fortitute?
Tremere: Thaumaturgy and something new?
Malkavian: Dementation and something new?

Gangrel DLC: Protean and Animalism?
Nosferatu DLC: Obfuscate and something new?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: EeeKitties on May 02, 2019, 04:26:38 pm
Just a heads up, the livestream (https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive) will start in 35mins from my original posting time (10 mins from my edit).

VOD (1hr6m timestamp) (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/419330375?t=01h06m07s)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on May 02, 2019, 05:10:27 pm
Clan Introduction - Brujah - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 02, 2019, 05:57:51 pm
Maybe this decision was make because of console limitation or to make each clan unique?

I don't think there should be limitations so early in development and I also thought the reason could be to make each clan more unique. Which I really wouldn't like, because what is a Toreador gunman without Celerity to fight like in the Matrix ;)?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 06:13:25 pm
I don't think there should be limitations so early in development and I also thought the reason could be to make each clan more unique. Which I really wouldn't like, because what is a Toreador gunman without Celerity to fight like in the Matrix ;)?
Well you can use mods or make your own mod for that. ;)

Any ideas for unique disciplines for Nosferatu and Malkavian besides Obfuscate and Dementation respectively?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 02, 2019, 08:34:19 pm
Interesting, it seems you keep your thin blood discipline and get only two others...
Maybe this decision was make because of console limitation or to make each clan unique?

Brujah: Potency and Celerity
Toreador:  Auspex and Presence?
Venture: Dominate and Fortitute?
Tremere: Thaumaturgy and something new?
Malkavian: Dementation and something new?

Gangrel DLC: Protean and Animalism?
Nosferatu DLC: Obfuscate and something new?

This is kinda annoying to me. Tremere Dominate and Auspex are fun stuff. Losing out on one is aggravating. I suppose I'd rather lose Dominate? I guess it'll depend on how the game plays for me to know for sure. I actually just now made a topic on the two Discipline thing. I'd better go give it the Final Death to keep the number of topics down on here...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 02, 2019, 08:42:47 pm
Does the fact that we keep a Thin Blood ability and only gain two Clan disciplines suggest that we may not become "full" members of that clan? Although how that would work is even more confusing to think about than the alternative...

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 02, 2019, 08:48:46 pm
Does the fact that we keep a Thin Blood ability and only gain two Clan disciplines suggest that we may not become "full" members of that clan? Although how that would work is even more confusing to think about than the alternative...

I doubt it unless they intend to invent a new kind of vampire that's not a Caitiff, a Thin-Blood, or a 13th Generation Kindred. I really think they ought to give us all three. This is pretty radical stuff that will heavily impact certain clans. If Lasombra were to make it into the game (I doubt it but would love that), Oblivion, Dominate, and Potence allow for some extreme variety of what you can do. Not having Oblivion would be pure heresy since it's such a rare Discipline...it'd be kinda like Tremere without Thaumaturgy. Not having Dominate would take away from the controlling mastermind qualities. And not having Potence makes melee builds super weak for a clan intended to be powerful in melee despite its socialite and caster qualities.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 08:54:23 pm
This is kinda annoying to me. Tremere Dominate and Auspex are fun stuff. Losing out on one is aggravating. I suppose I'd rather lose Dominate? I guess it'll depend on how the game plays for me to know for sure.
Like i said to Wesp its very likely that we can use Mods to solve this problem if we don´t like it.
And don´t forget we still have three disciplines like Bloodlines 1.
Our choosen thinblood discipline and our two clan disciplines.

I agree its sucks a bit that the clan lose one cool discipline but to be honest i kinda like this.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 02, 2019, 08:56:08 pm
@DarkProphet - I agree, and also I want to know how they plan to justify it lore-wise, because even in V5, clans have 3 disciplines each, hence my question. Unless this is going to be one of those "because game" explanations, which would be rather annoying. And yes, it limits build diversity (Celerity was my most used Toreador discipline in BL1 and since the Brujah get it this time around I am certain the Toreadors won't).

In fact, it feels a lot like the 'streamlining' that I have witnessed in other franchises as well, most notably Fallout and Elder Scrolls, where each game reduced/combined the number of skills and other attributes you could use, supposedly to make it simpler, eliminate redundancies etc. Still, here it goes beyond gameplay, the three disciplines are an important part of a clan's identity and they can't just be removed indiscriminately.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 02, 2019, 09:04:00 pm
I think the third discipline for the Brujahs is "Ultra Moustache", judging by the pictures. XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 02, 2019, 09:25:18 pm
Like i said to Wesp its very likely that can use Mods to solve this problem if don´t like it.

We don't know that. In Bloodlines 1 there is a limit to the number of Disciplines, if they do something similar in Bloodlines 2 there will be no way!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 02, 2019, 09:40:31 pm
We don't know that. In Bloodlines 1 there is a limit to the number of Disciplines, if they do something similar in Bloodlines 2 there will be no way!
What about the Bonus Discipline from Beckett? ;)
I don´t think that Modsupport comes for console and also that people want to use all Disciplines at once.
Therefore it should be possible to add the missing third clan discipline via mods.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 03, 2019, 02:56:37 am
I think the third discipline for the Brujahs is "Ultra Moustache", judging by the pictures. XD

It's almost not even a moustache... but an "Ultra Beard"... one above the rest !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 03, 2019, 03:24:58 am
@DarkProphet - I agree, and also I want to know how they plan to justify it lore-wise, because even in V5, clans have 3 disciplines each, hence my question. Unless this is going to be one of those "because game" explanations, which would be rather annoying. And yes, it limits build diversity (Celerity was my most used Toreador discipline in BL1 and since the Brujah get it this time around I am certain the Toreadors won't).

In fact, it feels a lot like the 'streamlining' that I have witnessed in other franchises as well, most notably Fallout and Elder Scrolls, where each game reduced/combined the number of skills and other attributes you could use, supposedly to make it simpler, eliminate redundancies etc. Still, here it goes beyond gameplay, the three disciplines are an important part of a clan's identity and they can't just be removed indiscriminately.

Agreed. I think this stinks. I hope that Toreador get Celerity, but then again, if we did, which Discipline would we lose? Auspex or Presence? Presence SHOULD be extremely good for a Toreador. In the pen and paper, the target basically falls in love with you and/or thinks you're the most awesome person on the planet for about an hour. They will tell you almost anything, do almost anything for you that won't involve killing a friend or themselves directly, and it's very different from Dominate. It's almost like a love potion for dialog and getting what you want from people without outright mind-controlling them live drones the way Ventrue can.

I wonder what Bloodlines 2 is going to do with Auspex...technically it's a super dull ability unless there are going to be tons of wraiths and other supernatural secrets to spot. Or it could lazily be a stat for firearms and hacking boosting like in Bloodlines 1...which would suck if Toreador lost it since Celerity and Auspex made firearms Toreador pretty sweet.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 03, 2019, 04:00:20 am
Celerity was my most used Toreador discipline in BL1 and since the Brujah get it this time around I am certain the Toreadors won't

Why not ?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 03, 2019, 07:18:35 am
Well because they will almost certainly get Presence, the most "Toreador" discipline, and the Brujah already have Celerity which makes me think they'll get Auspex instead. I hope I'm wrong. Celerity is MUCH better than Auspex, at least in BL1.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 03, 2019, 10:20:44 am
It's almost not even a moustache... but an "Ultra Beard"... one above the rest !

It probably comes with an awe effect attached. XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 03, 2019, 05:09:50 pm
Link to the second stream (introducing the Brujahs):

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/419364308 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/419364308)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 04, 2019, 12:26:52 am
Well because they will almost certainly get Presence, the most "Toreador" discipline, and the Brujah already have Celerity which makes me think they'll get Auspex instead. I hope I'm wrong. Celerity is MUCH better than Auspex, at least in BL1.

It could happen, apparently next week a new clan is getting a reveal.

Personally though, I'd think the developers would have more than enough sense to offer "Celerity" as a better option than "Presence" which, mind you, is also a Brujah discipline.

I think we might actually get "Presence" and "Celerity", that seems like a better combo for a toreador character.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 04, 2019, 02:52:15 am
Well because they will almost certainly get Presence, the most "Toreador" discipline, and the Brujah already have Celerity which makes me think they'll get Auspex instead. I hope I'm wrong. Celerity is MUCH better than Auspex, at least in BL1.

It could happen, apparently next week a new clan is getting a reveal.

Personally though, I'd think the developers would have more than enough sense to offer "Celerity" as a better option than "Presence" which, mind you, is also a Brujah discipline.

I think we might actually get "Presence" and "Celerity", that seems like a better combo for a toreador character.

Well, Presence is the "most Toreador" Discipline that Toreador have, if that makes sense. As for your conclusion, however, that we'll get Presence and Celerity as the better combo, I agree that it would be the right move since ranged Toreador with Celerity are FUN.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 04, 2019, 04:01:24 am
Well, Presence is the "most Toreador" Discipline that Toreador have, if that makes sense. As for your conclusion, however, that we'll get Presence and Celerity as the better combo, I agree that it would be the right move since ranged Toreador with Celerity are FUN.

SOMEHOW they must've know that must people liked Celerity. I would laugh in disbelief if a gunslinging Toreador is suposed shoot people down with his scary looks.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 04, 2019, 06:25:13 am
Well, Presence is the "most Toreador" Discipline that Toreador have, if that makes sense. As for your conclusion, however, that we'll get Presence and Celerity as the better combo, I agree that it would be the right move since ranged Toreador with Celerity are FUN.

SOMEHOW they must've know that must people liked Celerity. I would laugh in disbelief if a gunslinging Toreador is suposed shoot people down with his scary looks.

I do hope that the gunplay is fun in Bloodlines 2. All the press and interview verbiage talks about the "focus on hand to hand combat," which is kinda disconcerting since some of us wanna murder stuff with guns. Sure, small guns are weak, but shotguns and sniper rifles should be dangerous against our Kindred foes, while even the small guns should hurt humans badly.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 04, 2019, 08:02:30 am
SOMEHOW they must've know that must people liked Celerity. I would laugh in disbelief if a gunslinging Toreador is suposed shoot people down with his scary looks.

Allegedly (as they say in the stream I linked above) they reduced the available, clan-related disciplines to 2, because they
A) Thought too many options would be overwhelming/hard to navigate (which kind of makes me sad to hear) and
B) Because they wanted the clans to feel more unique.

If they are telling the truth, it seems to me like they'd try to keep the disciplines from overlapping as much as possible. Of course, given how they'll most likely have Ventrues in there, making it impossible to NOT have some overlap among Brujah/Ventrue/Toreador, I am really not sure how it will affect discipline distribution. I find the reasons a bit silly. At least they said that it should likely be possible to mod the discipline back in (even though the producer didn't want to commit to a promise).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 04, 2019, 08:31:11 am
Well, Presence is the "most Toreador" Discipline that Toreador have, if that makes sense. As for your conclusion, however, that we'll get Presence and Celerity as the better combo, I agree that it would be the right move since ranged Toreador with Celerity are FUN.

SOMEHOW they must've know that must people liked Celerity. I would laugh in disbelief if a gunslinging Toreador is suposed shoot people down with his scary looks.

I do hope that the gunplay is fun in Bloodlines 2. All the press and interview verbiage talks about the "focus on hand to hand combat," which is kinda disconcerting since some of us wanna murder stuff with guns. Sure, small guns are weak, but shotguns and sniper rifles should be dangerous against our Kindred foes, while even the small guns should hurt humans badly.


Yes, this concerns me as well, along with that stuff they said about guns being a situational weapon which will then break and you have to throw it away, because Kindred are "too powerful" to use firearms or something. Kindred are not the Hulk, they shouldn't break objects unintentionally like that, or they would basically not be able to open a door without pulling it out of its hinges.

I have always played ranged characters because that's my preferred playstyle (not just in this game) and yes, powerful guns should be able to hurt Kindred just fine. I don't particularly want to be forced into a (mostly) melee playstyle. Hopefully "Gun Repair" will be one of the first mods available...  🙏



If they are telling the truth, it seems to me like they'd try to keep the disciplines from overlapping as much as possible. Of course, given how they'll most likely have Ventrues in there, making it impossible to NOT have some overlap among Brujah/Ventrue/Toreador, I am really not sure how it will affect discipline distribution. I find the reasons a bit silly. At least they said that it should likely be possible to mod the discipline back in (even though the producer didn't want to commit to a promise).

Yeah that's what I feared too: "streamlining" and "class (clan) identity". I see it a lot in other games, and what it tends to mean is less build diversity. Hopefully it really will be a relatively easy thing to mod in...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 04, 2019, 05:42:43 pm
SOMEHOW they must've know that must people liked Celerity. I would laugh in disbelief if a gunslinging Toreador is suposed shoot people down with his scary looks.

Allegedly (as they say in the stream I linked above) they reduced the available, clan-related disciplines to 2, because they
A) Thought too many options would be overwhelming/hard to navigate (which kind of makes me sad to hear) and
B) Because they wanted the clans to feel more unique.

If they are telling the truth, it seems to me like they'd try to keep the disciplines from overlapping as much as possible. Of course, given how they'll most likely have Ventrues in there, making it impossible to NOT have some overlap among Brujah/Ventrue/Toreador, I am really not sure how it will affect discipline distribution. I find the reasons a bit silly. At least they said that it should likely be possible to mod the discipline back in (even though the producer didn't want to commit to a promise).

I think I just figured out why we will be losing out on one of the Disciplines per clan. We get 2 powers per Discipline, as shown on the game's site. That means there are six total powers you can get per character...and that's assuming we don't get Blood Buff and Blood Heal, or other similar abilities. This is a THEORY...but it's one based on about two decades of precedent. This game is not PC only. This game is coming out on consoles...which means they will want it so you can activate every power with the push of one button if at all possible. Therefore, chances are the powers will each be one of the "direction pad" buttons on the controller, with two others being left/right shoulder buttons on the controller.

I would contend that they could just use a shoulder button to switch all of the other button's functions while that shoulder button is held, but my guess is they'll going to assign such buttons to other tasks instead. Like I said, this is a theory, but the fact that this is on console is relevant and this would be in line with the limitations imposed by using a controller and trying to make it simple enough for the masses to pick up and play without understanding stuff like an alternate function button such as those us PC gamers are used to in stuff like Diablo games and others.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 05, 2019, 06:18:32 pm
If they are telling the truth, it seems to me like they'd try to keep the disciplines from overlapping as much as possible. Of course, given how they'll most likely have Ventrues in there, making it impossible to NOT have some overlap among Brujah/Ventrue/Toreador, I am really not sure how it will affect discipline distribution. I find the reasons a bit silly. At least they said that it should likely be possible to mod the discipline back in (even though the producer didn't want to commit to a promise).

I... don't know, those thinblood disciplines look amazing. I'd rather have one of those three than a toreador with presence again, which I never used.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 05, 2019, 11:42:40 pm
Yes, this concerns me as well, along with that stuff they said about guns being a situational weapon which will then break and you have to throw it away, because Kindred are "too powerful" to use firearms or something. Kindred are not the Hulk, they shouldn't break objects unintentionally like that, or they would basically not be able to open a door without pulling it out of its hinges.

WHAT?! Did they seriously say that your guns will just break and have to be thrown away?!?! WTF??? Do you have a link to whatever interview that's from? I wanna read into that and achieve the appropriate levels of rage. WTF am I going to be spending points in the Firearms stat for if guns are thrown away?!?! >_<
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 06, 2019, 02:15:11 am
Yes, this concerns me as well, along with that stuff they said about guns being a situational weapon which will then break and you have to throw it away, because Kindred are "too powerful" to use firearms or something. Kindred are not the Hulk, they shouldn't break objects unintentionally like that, or they would basically not be able to open a door without pulling it out of its hinges.

Oh lord. Got the source ?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 06, 2019, 03:54:33 am
Yes, this concerns me as well, along with that stuff they said about guns being a situational weapon which will then break and you have to throw it away, because Kindred are "too powerful" to use firearms or something. Kindred are not the Hulk, they shouldn't break objects unintentionally like that, or they would basically not be able to open a door without pulling it out of its hinges.

Oh lord. Got the source ?

Aha! I did some Googling and checked every site I could find. I believe I found it! https://kotaku.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-is-getting-a-sequel-1833479366

Here is the paragraph in question: "Combat wasn’t great in Vampire: the Masquerade– Bloodlines. Clumsy and stilted animations made melee attacks frustrating to perform, while gunplay was heavily dependent on pouring your stats into a Firearms trait. The combat I saw for Bloodlines 2 seemed much more fluid. Stinson dashed about, using vampiric speed to slide into melee range and slash at enemies or execute them with melee weapons. In certain cases, the camera pulled back to showcase narrow dodges or special executions. In one case, Stinson countered an attack and instantly grabbed a foe for some bloodsucking. Guns exist but are treated as temporary opportunities; you grab them (perhaps even directly out of enemy hands thanks to your telekinesis powers) and use them until your ammo’s dried up and you can discard them. It’s hard to say if that’s simply flair without playing the game myself, but combat definitely looks more involved this time around."

So here's MY take on it since neither the person writing the article doesn't know with any certainty why the gun was thrown away: this was a total Far Cry thingamabob. If you've played Far Cry 3 onward, you know that you can get in close to enemies, disarm them, and use their own gun to shoot people. Then you ditch the gun...'cause it ain't your gun. It sounds like that's what the article-writer saw: a fight where a character took a gun away from an enemy, then fired every shot 'til the stolen gun's mag was empty and threw it away.

I don't think this means we won't have our own personal cache of legit guns we can roll around town with. ;)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 06, 2019, 04:47:52 am
So here's MY take on it since neither the person writing the article doesn't know with any certainty why the gun was thrown away: this was a total Far Cry thingamabob. If you've played Far Cry 3 onward, you know that you can get in close to enemies, disarm them, and use their own gun to shoot people. Then you ditch the gun...'cause it ain't your gun. It sounds like that's what the article-writer saw: a fight where a character took a gun away from an enemy, then fired every shot 'til the stolen gun's mag was empty and threw it away.

I don't think this means we won't have our own personal cache of legit guns we can roll around town with. ;)

It's a reasonable assumption from a demo, though as you say, it doesn't necessarily mean a confirmation.

I think we'll have our answer next week if one of the "auspex" clans is revealed. a Bit of insight into the mechanics of that discipline might actually give us an answer on how frequent the use of guns is in the game.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 06, 2019, 05:54:12 am
So here's MY take on it since neither the person writing the article doesn't know with any certainty why the gun was thrown away: this was a total Far Cry thingamabob. If you've played Far Cry 3 onward, you know that you can get in close to enemies, disarm them, and use their own gun to shoot people. Then you ditch the gun...'cause it ain't your gun. It sounds like that's what the article-writer saw: a fight where a character took a gun away from an enemy, then fired every shot 'til the stolen gun's mag was empty and threw it away.

I don't think this means we won't have our own personal cache of legit guns we can roll around town with. ;)

It's a reasonable assumption from a demo, though as you say, it doesn't necessarily mean a confirmation.

I think we'll have our answer next week if one of the "auspex" clans is revealed. a Bit of insight into the mechanics of that discipline might actually give us an answer on how frequent the use of guns is in the game.

Hmm, possibly in the big twitch stream the producer guy and the dude with the rat nest on the back of his head present, they will probably say more about what Auspex does when one of those clans is revealed. I'm betting Tremere will have Thaumaturgy/Auspex, while Toreador will have Presence/Celerity, Ventrue will have Dominate/Fortitude, and Nossies will have Obsuscate/Potence.

Then in the DLCs, I'm thinking Gangrel will have Protean/Animalism, and Malkavians will have Dominate (Dementation amalgams)/Auspex.

Here's hoping we get more clans than that if the game is really successful, though...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 06, 2019, 07:57:26 am
Yes, this concerns me as well, along with that stuff they said about guns being a situational weapon which will then break and you have to throw it away, because Kindred are "too powerful" to use firearms or something. Kindred are not the Hulk, they shouldn't break objects unintentionally like that, or they would basically not be able to open a door without pulling it out of its hinges.

Oh lord. Got the source ?



I found it! I knew I had read somewhere that the reason guns are disposable is because Kindred are supposedly too powerful to use them for long:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/preorder_vampire_the_masquerade_bloodlines_2_2d247/post64

Relevant quote:

Weapons: As in the predecessor, there is a smorgasbord of guns and firearms, which are now wearing out: At some point, every club and every gun breaks apart. The official rationale is that as a vampire we are just too strong for mortal weapons. Let's see how much that sucks later.

The source article is in German, so I cannot read it.


We also don't know if this is actual confirmed information or not (or whether there is any way to repair them)...although I did find many references to "guns are only temporary, you throw them away once ammo runs out" on various sites (without going into details as to why). Also that they want to emphasize that the best weapon are the Kindred themselves (hence hand-to-hand combat).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 06, 2019, 09:06:56 am
Weapons: As in the predecessor, there is a smorgasbord of guns and firearms, which are now wearing out: At some point, every club and every gun breaks apart. The official rationale is that as a vampire we are just too strong for mortal weapons. Let's see how much that sucks later.

The source article is in German, so I cannot read it.

The translation is correct, although somewhere else they said that the player can carry 2 melee weapons and 2 guns, so he doesn't need to throw them away, and Florian Schwarzer also confirmed that there will be a firearms stat...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 06, 2019, 12:16:14 pm
The translation is correct, although somewhere else they said that the player can carry 2 melee weapons and 2 guns, so he doesn't need to throw them away, and Florian Schwarzer also confirmed that there will be a firearms stat...

Can't say I am too enthusiastic about it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The design was almost never the problem in the previous gameplay, only the execution was clunky. 4 weapon slots sounds really restrictive, but I guess they want to encourage changing up weapons and playstyle quickly, especially with the guns being breakable.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 06, 2019, 05:30:13 pm
Well this more interessing for european especially german fans but for everyone else there is a glimpse of the Bloodlines 2 main theme.
Do you want to be one of the first in line to try Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2? Bloodlines 2 will be playable for the FIRST TIME EVER at PDXCON 2019, October 18-20, in Berlin for all of our fans attending PDXCON 2019! Register now for early access to the ticket sales tomorrow, and get exclusive in-game items for attending!

Members of the development team at Hardsuit Labs as well as the World of Darkness team at Paradox will be on-hand to meet fans and answer questions. You can also expect exciting Bloodlines 2 news to be revealed at the event.



Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 06, 2019, 07:50:41 pm
The translation is correct, although somewhere else they said that the player can carry 2 melee weapons and 2 guns, so he doesn't need to throw them away, and Florian Schwarzer also confirmed that there will be a firearms stat...

Can't say I am too enthusiastic about it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The design was almost never the problem in the previous gameplay, only the execution was clunky. 4 weapon slots sounds really restrictive, but I guess they want to encourage changing up weapons and playstyle quickly, especially with the guns being breakable.

This really stinks. Firearms were already inferior to melee in Bloodlines 1. Also, though it's possible I could've missed it, I don't recall reading anything in any of the pen and paper rulebooks which indicates that Kindred damage their own weapons through use. The tabletop games I've been watching don't have this come up either. =/

I think the dumbest thing about this is that every Kindred will need to have Brawl maxed because in one-on-one fights with tough Kindred, our weapons will break and the only way to win will be Brawl. >_<
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 07, 2019, 01:31:38 am
Weapons: As in the predecessor, there is a smorgasbord of guns and firearms, which are now wearing out: At some point, every club and every gun breaks apart. The official rationale is that as a vampire we are just too strong for mortal weapons. Let's see how much that sucks later.

That seems more reassuring. I kinda hated Far Cry 2 but I did love the "weapon-breaking" mechanics. They kept you on edge.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 07, 2019, 01:37:53 am
Weapons: As in the predecessor, there is a smorgasbord of guns and firearms, which are now wearing out: At some point, every club and every gun breaks apart. The official rationale is that as a vampire we are just too strong for mortal weapons. Let's see how much that sucks later.

That seems more reassuring. I kinda hated Far Cry 2 but I did love the "weapon-breaking" mechanics. They kept you on edge.

I've played 1-4 and that's the only one I didn't finish. I don't even remember anything about it except that I hated it and I think it's in Africa.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 07, 2019, 01:40:00 am
I've played 1-4 and that's the only one I didn't finish. I don't even remember anything about it except that I hated it and I think it's in Africa.

And a lot of people love it, which is just fuckin' bafflin' to me.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 07, 2019, 02:14:59 am
I've played 1-4 and that's the only one I didn't finish. I don't even remember anything about it except that I hated it and I think it's in Africa.

And a lot of people love it, which is just fuckin' bafflin' to me.

I seem to call something really annoying about enemies respawning at areas you have to constantly travel through...checkpoints or whatever.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 07, 2019, 04:47:38 am
I seem to call something really annoying about enemies respawning at areas you have to constantly travel through...checkpoints or whatever.

YES... it's as terrible as it sounds. What a shit game.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on May 08, 2019, 05:10:46 pm
Clan Introduction - Tremere - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 12:12:42 am
So Tremere just snatched Auspex.

What do us Toreador get now ? Hopefully Celerity and Presence !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 01:59:56 am
So Tremere just snatched Auspex.

What do us Toreador get now ? Hopefully Celerity and Presence !

That's been my bet all along, and I sure hope that's what it is! Celerity is fun with Toreador, and Presence is very emotion-based and "just very Toreador." I don't want a ton of clans with Auspex, and Auspex just feels more Malkavian to me in that you can get leave your body, go detect people, and disorient them while unseen, astral projecting (which kinda gives a TEENSY bit of the Obfuscate premise since I suspect they won't get Obfuscate).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 02:47:03 am
That's been my bet all along, and I sure hope that's what it is! Celerity is fun with Toreador, and Presence is very emotion-based and "just very Toreador." I don't want a ton of clans with Auspex, and Auspex just feels more Malkavian to me in that you can get leave your body, go detect people, and disorient them while unseen, astral projecting (which kinda gives a TEENSY bit of the Obfuscate premise since I suspect they won't get Obfuscate).

Presence needs a serious overhaul in this game though. Outside of the dialogue options in the Plus Patch I felt like presence was a crap discipline.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 06:04:55 am
That's been my bet all along, and I sure hope that's what it is! Celerity is fun with Toreador, and Presence is very emotion-based and "just very Toreador." I don't want a ton of clans with Auspex, and Auspex just feels more Malkavian to me in that you can get leave your body, go detect people, and disorient them while unseen, astral projecting (which kinda gives a TEENSY bit of the Obfuscate premise since I suspect they won't get Obfuscate).

Presence needs a serious overhaul in this game though. Outside of the dialogue options in the Plus Patch I felt like presence was a crap discipline.

Yeah, I hate Presence in Bloodlines 1. In the pen and paper, you can basically make any mortal adore you and want to tell you things while you have your dialog with them. They will do just about anything that won't immediately cause themselves to die or kill a loved one. It's pretty great from what I've been seeing people use it for in the tabletop games I've been watching.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 06:27:11 am
Yeah, I hate Presence in Bloodlines 1. In the pen and paper, you can basically make any mortal adore you and want to tell you things while you have your dialog with them. They will do just about anything that won't immediately cause themselves to die or kill a loved one. It's pretty great from what I've been seeing people use it for in the tabletop games I've been watching.

Maybe it can work closer to Dominate. Perhaps part of the power includes that some NPC's won't attack you of being intimidated or terrified by your appearence. Maybe that could work.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: argikt on May 09, 2019, 09:09:59 am
Tremere clan has been showed in the official page... (I'm very,very happy)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: EeeKitties on May 09, 2019, 04:04:08 pm
Oops, forgot to update the thread yesterday. Apologies to all, should be updated now :vampsmile:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 08:26:55 pm
Yeah, I hate Presence in Bloodlines 1. In the pen and paper, you can basically make any mortal adore you and want to tell you things while you have your dialog with them. They will do just about anything that won't immediately cause themselves to die or kill a loved one. It's pretty great from what I've been seeing people use it for in the tabletop games I've been watching.

Maybe it can work closer to Dominate. Perhaps part of the power includes that some NPC's won't attack you of being intimidated or terrified by your appearence. Maybe that could work.

Perhaps. The devs said in the live stream for the Tremere that most of the clans were going to have "the fireworks" (i.e. something showy/exciting, basically), and another Discipline that is either social or helps you to explore. Therefore, I think this is all the more reason to expect Celerity for Toreador since it's showy and exciting, clearly helping with combat, while Presence would accentuate the social aspect of the clan that it is renowned for.

As for what Presence will do...I'd even be happy if it's just a dialog booster kinda like Dominate was in Bloodlines 1, but as a form of supernatural charisma like it is in the pen and paper, as opposed to clearly bossy mind control like Dominate is. OH! I just had a thought. I believe in the pen and paper, you can add your Presence to your social rolls...so one thing they could do is basically THAT in Bloodlines 2: if you have presence 5, then that's 5 points added to your persuade, intimidate, and seduction skills beyond what the specific attributes related to those give you, so that clans with Presence could reliably use all three of those dialog options to get their way, whereas other clans would have to dump tons of XP into each of those dialog types to use all of them, likely to the detriment of their characters (meaning don't do it unless you have Presence).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 11:33:46 pm
As for what Presence will do...I'd even be happy if it's just a dialog booster kinda like Dominate was in Bloodlines 1, but as a form of supernatural charisma like it is in the pen and paper, as opposed to clearly bossy mind control like Dominate is. OH! I just had a thought. I believe in the pen and paper, you can add your Presence to your social rolls...so one thing they could do is basically THAT in Bloodlines 2: if you have presence 5, then that's 5 points added to your persuade, intimidate, and seduction skills beyond what the specific attributes related to those give you, so that clans with Presence could reliably use all three of those dialog options to get their way, whereas other clans would have to dump tons of XP into each of those dialog types to use all of them, likely to the detriment of their characters (meaning don't do it unless you have Presence).

I just hated how it showed and worked in BL1, it just seemed like a pink glow aura that surrounded you... it sucked.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2019, 11:35:10 pm
As for what Presence will do...I'd even be happy if it's just a dialog booster kinda like Dominate was in Bloodlines 1, but as a form of supernatural charisma like it is in the pen and paper, as opposed to clearly bossy mind control like Dominate is. OH! I just had a thought. I believe in the pen and paper, you can add your Presence to your social rolls...so one thing they could do is basically THAT in Bloodlines 2: if you have presence 5, then that's 5 points added to your persuade, intimidate, and seduction skills beyond what the specific attributes related to those give you, so that clans with Presence could reliably use all three of those dialog options to get their way, whereas other clans would have to dump tons of XP into each of those dialog types to use all of them, likely to the detriment of their characters (meaning don't do it unless you have Presence).

I just hated how it showed and worked in BL1, it just seemed like a pink glow aura that surrounded you... it sucked.

And it's just a debuff in a game where the combat isn't all that difficult and you're better off just pumping the points into other stuff that would just directly boost your damage.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2019, 11:41:49 pm
And it's just a debuff in a game where the combat isn't all that difficult and you're better off just pumping the points into other stuff that would just directly boost your damage.

I think I would be happier if it just had a tangible effect.

For example: a thug with a bat is running at me, I activate presence and suddenly he drops the bat and starts mewling like a baby, scared out of his mind. I would like that.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 03:14:36 am
And it's just a debuff in a game where the combat isn't all that difficult and you're better off just pumping the points into other stuff that would just directly boost your damage.

I think I would be happier if it just had a tangible effect.

For example: a thug with a bat is running at me, I activate presence and suddenly he drops the bat and starts mewling like a baby, scared out of his mind. I would like that.

That's doable if they implement some of the V5 Presence abilities. Here they are if you wanna read them! They're divided by dot levels. :D  https://vampirev5bce.obsidianportal.com/wiki_pages/discipline-presence
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 10, 2019, 03:40:01 am
That's doable if they implement some of the V5 Presence abilities. Here they are if you wanna read them! They're divided by dot levels. :D  https://vampirev5bce.obsidianportal.com/wiki_pages/discipline-presence

Thank you ! I'm really digging Dread Gaze and Entrancement, pretty much what I would like if we have to do with Presence.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 05:41:02 am
That's doable if they implement some of the V5 Presence abilities. Here they are if you wanna read them! They're divided by dot levels. :D  https://vampirev5bce.obsidianportal.com/wiki_pages/discipline-presence

Thank you ! I'm really digging Dread Gaze and Entrancement, pretty much what I would like if we have to do with Presence.

No problem! I think almost all (if not all) the V5 disciplines can be found on that site, including even the crazy Tremere rituals like the stone heart, that killer stake, etc. It's handy stuff and fun for speculation. Of course, the devs will likely fudge some abilities into the game as well, as opposed to being restricted to what's in the rulebook. As long as it's all very fun, I'm down with it.

When I skimmed over Dread Gaze, it definitely sounded pretty much exactly what you would like from Presence. If enemies don't drop money and guns/melee weapons are throw-away trash like the interview snippets made it sound, then having them run away in fear could be perfectly fine if they don't have anything we need. =p

I'm really hoping that they clarify the stuff about melee and ranged weapons, though. When you have three non-Discipline ways of fighting in the pen and paper as well as Bloodlines 1, and a developer makes it so that only one of those three is worth investing any experience into...well, that's disheartening. I really hope that you have some guns you keep permanently or that they do amazing damage when you do use them to justify the XP costs. Just imagine getting a shotgun from some punk, then saving it for a Kindred mini-boss and taking off massive chunks of its health with each blast. :D

If they ever do put Lasombra into the game, I would imagine they won't have you take a humanity stain 20% of the time that you use Oblivion Disciplines. That would make it really hard, but that's how it works in the pen and paper.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 10, 2019, 09:16:29 am
If enemies don't drop money and guns/melee weapons are throw-away trash like the interview snippets made it sound, then having them run away in fear could be perfectly fine if they don't have anything we need. =p

In Bloodlines 2 Presence should be handled like Domination and Dementation were in Bloodlines 1 by forcing specified actions on the enemies.

Quote
I really hope that you have some guns you keep permanently or that they do amazing damage when you do use them to justify the XP costs.

It was said that you can keep 2 melee weapons and 2 ranged weapons permanently, but it is yet unclear when they break or are thrown away.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2019, 10:43:08 pm
If enemies don't drop money and guns/melee weapons are throw-away trash like the interview snippets made it sound, then having them run away in fear could be perfectly fine if they don't have anything we need. =p

In Bloodlines 2 Presence should be handled like Domination and Dementation were in Bloodlines 1 by forcing specified actions on the enemies.

Quote
I really hope that you have some guns you keep permanently or that they do amazing damage when you do use them to justify the XP costs.

It was said that you can keep 2 melee weapons and 2 ranged weapons permanently, but it is yet unclear when they break or are thrown away.

Well, I mean they're not permanent if they break, though. I am guessing you thought (quite reasonably!) that I meant that you can carry a weapon from one battle to another map or something. I meant that I would like certain weapons to never break.

It's fair if they break...PROVIDED that there are infinite supplies in the game a la Dying Light, Dead Island, Fallout 4, and other games where you can go digging around getting goodies to craft more weapons or find more from respawning mooks.

If my guns just break and are gone for good, then I'm totally screwed in a boss or mini-boss fight if my character is built around Firearms instead of Brawl. =/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 10, 2019, 11:24:20 pm
If my guns just break and are gone for good, then I'm totally screwed in a boss or mini-boss fight if my character is built around Firearms instead of Brawl. =/

I don't believe that guns will break as this would be rather ridiculous, even for vampires...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 12:57:34 am
If my guns just break and are gone for good, then I'm totally screwed in a boss or mini-boss fight if my character is built around Firearms instead of Brawl. =/

I don't believe that guns will break as this would be rather ridiculous, even for vampires...

https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-release-story-gameplay,3342009,seite2.html

Paragraph 3 of page 2 of this interview with the Bloodlines 2 project manager/producer or whatever, Florian. It's in German, though, so I had to run it through Google Translate. =p

"Weapons: As in the predecessor, there is a smorgasbord of guns and firearms, which are now wearing out: At some point, every beating and every gun breaks apart. The official rationale is that as a vampire we are just too strong for mortal weapons. Let's see how much that sucks later."
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 11, 2019, 01:20:34 am
Weapons: As in the predecessor, there is a smorgasbord of guns and firearms, which are now wearing out: At some point, every beating and every gun breaks apart. The official rationale is that as a vampire we are just too strong for mortal weapons. Let's see how much that sucks later."

It was a great feature in Far Cry 2, I don't see why it would be a bad thing for this game.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 03:14:43 am
Weapons: As in the predecessor, there is a smorgasbord of guns and firearms, which are now wearing out: At some point, every beating and every gun breaks apart. The official rationale is that as a vampire we are just too strong for mortal weapons. Let's see how much that sucks later."

It was a great feature in Far Cry 2, I don't see why it would be a bad thing for this game.

Because Far Cry 2 has infinite enemies and supplies. Bloodlines 1 did not, and unless they do that with Bloodlines 2, it could be a disaster. Such a gameplay mechanic requires infinite resources to not stifle combat options.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 11, 2019, 03:44:51 am
Because Far Cry 2 has infinite enemies and supplies. Bloodlines 1 did not, and unless they do that with Bloodlines 2, it could be a disaster. Such a gameplay mechanic requires infinite resources to not stifle combat options.

Why would the options be stifled though ? You'll still be fighting with melee and firearms as far as I can see.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 04:32:25 am
Because Far Cry 2 has infinite enemies and supplies. Bloodlines 1 did not, and unless they do that with Bloodlines 2, it could be a disaster. Such a gameplay mechanic requires infinite resources to not stifle combat options.

Why would the options be stifled though ? You'll still be fighting with melee and firearms as far as I can see.

Alright, let's apply what Bloodlines 2's guns sound like they're going to be like...to Ming-Xiao's Temple in Bloodlines 1. So with Bloodlines 2's implied rules, you can take two guns there. There are ridiculous amounts of enemies there. All of their ranged weapons are dogshit (crossbows). Your guns break well before you get to Ming-Xiao. Now you only have two swords you got from guards in the temple, and no guns...but all your combat dots are in Firearms. Good luck with no guns. And sure, you could use all your ammo before reaching Ming in Bloodlines 1, but it's not the same thing. Unless these guns have a reeeeeally long degradation period, the guns will be broken before you reach Ming unless you just don't use guns...and even then, she probably wouldn't die before the guns broke.

This whole gun/club-breaking thing doesn't make anyone happy except the devs who have the biggest hard-on for brawl...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 11, 2019, 05:12:16 am
Alright, let's apply what Bloodlines 2's guns sound like they're going to be like...to Ming-Xiao's Temple in Bloodlines 1. So with Bloodlines 2's implied rules, you can take two guns there. There are ridiculous amounts of enemies there. All of their ranged weapons are dogshit (crossbows). Your guns break well before you get to Ming-Xiao. Now you only have two swords you got from guards in the temple, and no guns...but all your combat dots are in Firearms. Good luck with no guns. And sure, you could use all your ammo before reaching Ming in Bloodlines 1, but it's not the same thing. Unless these guns have a reeeeeally long degradation period, the guns will be broken before you reach Ming unless you just don't use guns...and even then, she probably wouldn't die before the guns broke.

This whole gun/club-breaking thing doesn't make anyone happy except the devs who have the biggest hard-on for brawl...

That is assuming we even have dots, the same way we did in BL1. Also, we have to wait a bit on the information. If it's true that our characters will specialize, then we obviously cannot be without firearms and we'll deffinitely be supplied in every level, there's no other way.

Not much to say on my end though, everything is speculation at the moment though.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 05:55:54 am
Alright, let's apply what Bloodlines 2's guns sound like they're going to be like...to Ming-Xiao's Temple in Bloodlines 1. So with Bloodlines 2's implied rules, you can take two guns there. There are ridiculous amounts of enemies there. All of their ranged weapons are dogshit (crossbows). Your guns break well before you get to Ming-Xiao. Now you only have two swords you got from guards in the temple, and no guns...but all your combat dots are in Firearms. Good luck with no guns. And sure, you could use all your ammo before reaching Ming in Bloodlines 1, but it's not the same thing. Unless these guns have a reeeeeally long degradation period, the guns will be broken before you reach Ming unless you just don't use guns...and even then, she probably wouldn't die before the guns broke.

This whole gun/club-breaking thing doesn't make anyone happy except the devs who have the biggest hard-on for brawl...

That is assuming we even have dots, the same way we did in BL1. Also, we have to wait a bit on the information. If it's true that our characters will specialize, then we obviously cannot be without firearms and we'll deffinitely be supplied in every level, there's no other way.

Not much to say on my end though, everything is speculation at the moment though.


You definitely get to invest some sort of points, and the website's disciplines have all used dots as representations of the levels, as opposed to numbers, so it's pretty safe to say until we hear otherwise that dots will be what we use. And there will definitely be investments into firearms itself, as evidenced by this article: https://www.pcgamesn.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-interview

"In the original Bloodlines there were times where missions has an emphasis on guns and weapons, how did you approach this in Bloodlines 2?
KC: There will be times where you want to use them, but they won’t be nearly as necessary. Another thing is how we handle progression when using them. If you don’t put points into firearms it doesn’t mean that you’re not going to hit what you’re aiming at, it doesn’t mean that you’re not going to be competent with a gun it just means that you don’t have as many options."

Whatever the heck that means...maybe using certain guns requires certain levels of firearms? Like 9mm handgun is 1 dot, shotgun is 2, exotic handguns (heavy revolvers and desert eagles) is 3, etc., and maybe faster reload times or aim time along with the dot growth? *shrug*
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 11, 2019, 06:16:40 am
Whatever the heck that means...maybe using certain guns requires certain levels of firearms? Like 9mm handgun is 1 dot, shotgun is 2, exotic handguns (heavy revolvers and desert eagles) is 3, etc., and maybe faster reload times or aim time along with the dot growth? *shrug*

Sounds logical, and pretty cool to me. I hate sucking to the point of unplayability with the skills I choose when I start a new playthrough in an RPG's.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 11, 2019, 07:49:16 am
Because Far Cry 2 has infinite enemies and supplies. Bloodlines 1 did not, and unless they do that with Bloodlines 2, it could be a disaster. Such a gameplay mechanic requires infinite resources to not stifle combat options.

Why would the options be stifled though ? You'll still be fighting with melee and firearms as far as I can see.

Alright, let's apply what Bloodlines 2's guns sound like they're going to be like...to Ming-Xiao's Temple in Bloodlines 1. So with Bloodlines 2's implied rules, you can take two guns there. There are ridiculous amounts of enemies there. All of their ranged weapons are dogshit (crossbows). Your guns break well before you get to Ming-Xiao. Now you only have two swords you got from guards in the temple, and no guns...but all your combat dots are in Firearms. Good luck with no guns. And sure, you could use all your ammo before reaching Ming in Bloodlines 1, but it's not the same thing. Unless these guns have a reeeeeally long degradation period, the guns will be broken before you reach Ming unless you just don't use guns...and even then, she probably wouldn't die before the guns broke.

This whole gun/club-breaking thing doesn't make anyone happy except the devs who have the biggest hard-on for brawl...


Yes, I hate the sound of this. I felt gunplay was too restricted in Bloodlines 1 as it was, what with the fact that you could only carry a limited amount of ammo. I wanted to stockpile as much ammo as I could afford before a fight (that way I also wouldn't have to carry every gun I could as a backup...) and I absolutely HATED coming across some ammo in a box somewhere and not being able to take it because apparently I could pick up a sledgehammer but not a few more bullets...

But at least a character who used guns and ONLY guns (apart from Disciplines of course) was viable, if tricky (After spending all my money on guns and ammo I still ran out in the Venture Tower just before the final fight. Case in point about ammo: those commando guys kept dropping it, but I couldn't pick it up anymore past a certain amount, which in the end was inadequate. If I could have just harvested ammo from all of them I wouldn't have had any issues).

Now it feels like weapons are just going to be an enhancement to your combat abilities, either guns or melee, while the basis of combat is going to be hand-to-hand.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2019, 05:28:50 pm
Because Far Cry 2 has infinite enemies and supplies. Bloodlines 1 did not, and unless they do that with Bloodlines 2, it could be a disaster. Such a gameplay mechanic requires infinite resources to not stifle combat options.

Why would the options be stifled though ? You'll still be fighting with melee and firearms as far as I can see.

Alright, let's apply what Bloodlines 2's guns sound like they're going to be like...to Ming-Xiao's Temple in Bloodlines 1. So with Bloodlines 2's implied rules, you can take two guns there. There are ridiculous amounts of enemies there. All of their ranged weapons are dogshit (crossbows). Your guns break well before you get to Ming-Xiao. Now you only have two swords you got from guards in the temple, and no guns...but all your combat dots are in Firearms. Good luck with no guns. And sure, you could use all your ammo before reaching Ming in Bloodlines 1, but it's not the same thing. Unless these guns have a reeeeeally long degradation period, the guns will be broken before you reach Ming unless you just don't use guns...and even then, she probably wouldn't die before the guns broke.

This whole gun/club-breaking thing doesn't make anyone happy except the devs who have the biggest hard-on for brawl...


Yes, I hate the sound of this. I felt gunplay was too restricted in Bloodlines 1 as it was, what with the fact that you could only carry a limited amount of ammo. I wanted to stockpile as much ammo as I could afford before a fight (that way I also wouldn't have to carry every gun I could as a backup...) and I absolutely HATED coming across some ammo in a box somewhere and not being able to take it because apparently I could pick up a sledgehammer but not a few more bullets...

But at least a character who used guns and ONLY guns (apart from Disciplines of course) was viable, if tricky (After spending all my money on guns and ammo I still ran out in the Venture Tower just before the final fight. Case in point about ammo: those commando guys kept dropping it, but I couldn't pick it up anymore past a certain amount, which in the end was inadequate. If I could have just harvested ammo from all of them I wouldn't have had any issues).

Now it feels like weapons are just going to be an enhancement to your combat abilities, either guns or melee, while the basis of combat is going to be hand-to-hand.

Yeah, I agree with you. I'm fine with the devs wanting to make brawl a lot of fun, but it doesn't have to be at what - so far - sounds like the bastardization of firearms and the weakening of melee. At least with melee, your dots in strength will heighten your damage even after your weapon breaks, so only the melee dots are potentially wasted...whereas with firearms, if you've dumped all your points in the firearms stats, you are SCREWED when the guns break if all the enemies around you have melee weapons. Against regular enemies, Disciplines will probably help alleviate the issue, but with bosses and minibosses, good luck since Disciplines are always garbage against them. Here's hoping Tremere abilities leech blood even while you move around a bunch, unlike Blood Strike did in Bloodlines 1, though.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 12, 2019, 08:44:26 am
Link to the stream for the tremere reveal: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/422047882?t=1h49m56s (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/422047882?t=1h49m56s)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 12:35:05 pm
Now it feels like weapons are just going to be an enhancement to your combat abilities, either guns or melee, while the basis of combat is going to be hand-to-hand.

Or maybe we have to be careful about how much we use them. Weapons DO break after repeated use in the real world, this isn't such an outlandish concept.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 12, 2019, 01:06:34 pm
Weapons can also be repaired in the real world, which would be VERY nice if it were an option in this game, but so far nothing has been said about it and it seems unlikely the way they talk about throwing away broken weapons. Hopefully mods can solve this issue.

It also depends on how quickly they break, if they are so fragile you can't complete a long dungeon/fight without them breaking apart, guns users are going to have a problem.

I have no problem with brawl being made cooler, but I don't understand why that has to come at the expense of a fully ranged playstyle. I would have thought more options would be a good thing...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 01:36:40 pm
Weapons can also be repaired in the real world, which would be VERY nice if it were an option in this game, but so far nothing has been said about it and it seems unlikely the way they talk about throwing away broken weapons. Hopefully mods can solve this issue.

It also depends on how quickly they break, if they are so fragile you can't complete a long dungeon/fight without them breaking apart, guns users are going to have a problem.

I have no problem with brawl being made cooler, but I don't understand why that has to come at the expense of a fully ranged playstyle. I would have thought more options would be a good thing...

Patience, young grasshopper. We have much to see yet.

I do agree though, I'd like it if I could have the choice to go into a "long dungeon" with just a pistol, one that I was obligted to maintain as well which is what I find very cool.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 02:11:55 pm
Weapons can also be repaired in the real world, which would be VERY nice if it were an option in this game, but so far nothing has been said about it and it seems unlikely the way they talk about throwing away broken weapons. Hopefully mods can solve this issue.

It also depends on how quickly they break, if they are so fragile you can't complete a long dungeon/fight without them breaking apart, guns users are going to have a problem.

I have no problem with brawl being made cooler, but I don't understand why that has to come at the expense of a fully ranged playstyle. I would have thought more options would be a good thing...

Another thing that could  be cool is if the Firearms skill lets you "handle" the guns better so that they take longer to break the more points you invest. Alternatively, the "Craft" skill in real VtM could be brought into the game and used for repairing both Firearms and Melee...sorta like how you fix them in Dying Light. Or simply have it represented by more uses of Firearms and Melee weapons without breakage. Then again, I think using Craft for that is a terrible idea since Firearms ALREADY sound gimped since they break in the first place.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 03:32:09 pm
Another thing that could  be cool is if the Firearms skill lets you "handle" the guns better so that they take longer to break the more points you invest.

Exactly, it might even be worth investing points in a firearms skill in the first place because people will want their guns to last substantially longer. Thus, guns work well from the beginning but don't last long if you're not skilled on their use. Everybody wins.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 12, 2019, 06:38:50 pm
Sure. I've played games that had gear degradation before (for armour, not just weapons) so you had to take that into account and make sure you maintained them (or paid someone to do it). That's not necessarily a problem if implemented well, with enough leeway to make them viable and fun to use (because it's a game, a playstyle should be fun not feel like a chore especially compared to others).

DarkProphet's suggestion that investing in the Firearms skill would allow you to use them longer without breaking (perhaps with 0% chance to break at max level) also sounds cool, and it would make things simpler in a way. Although I suddenly kinda like the idea of playing a vampire weaponsmith toting their jury-rigged guns :P


EDIT:
Also, I've achieved Methuselah status! =D *organ music intensifies, wolves howl, evil laughter sounds in the distance*

Ahem. Back to your scheduled program...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 12, 2019, 08:15:09 pm
Sure. I've played games that had gear degradation before (for armour, not just weapons) so you had to take that into account and make sure you maintained them (or paid someone to do it). That's not necessarily a problem if implemented well, with enough leeway to make them viable and fun to use (because it's a game, a playstyle should be fun not feel like a chore especially compared to others).

DarkProphet's suggestion that investing in the Firearms skill would allow you to use them longer without breaking (perhaps with 0% chance to break at max level) also sounds cool, and it would make things simpler in a way. Although I suddenly kinda like the idea of playing a vampire weaponsmith toting their jury-rigged guns :P


EDIT:
Also, I've achieved Methuselah status! =D *organ music intensifies, wolves howl, evil laughter sounds in the distance*

Ahem. Back to your scheduled program...

Yeah, I love crafting weapons, armor, upgrading my stuff, etc...so long as we have infinite goodies to loot in the game. If it's like Bloodlines 1, however, and stuff is finite, that's where we would have a problem. Fingers crossed.

And congrats on your Methuselah-dom! Highwayman is like 27 posts away from near-godhood, himself! Ever since Bloodlines 2 was announced, I've been running around here flailing my arms like Kermit the Frog out of sheer excitement and curiosity.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 12, 2019, 10:35:08 pm
Sure. I've played games that had gear degradation before (for armour, not just weapons) so you had to take that into account and make sure you maintained them (or paid someone to do it). That's not necessarily a problem if implemented well, with enough leeway to make them viable and fun to use (because it's a game, a playstyle should be fun not feel like a chore especially compared to others).

DarkProhpet's suggestion that investing in the Firearms skill would allow you to use them longer without breaking (perhaps with 0% chance to break at max level) also sounds cool, and it would make things simpler in a way. Although I suddenly kinda like the idea of playing a vampire weaponsmith toting their jury-rigged guns :P

Take off the gloves Mitsoda, we got a winning idea here !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 13, 2019, 06:45:59 am
Honestly, I get the impression weapons will be more like the ones you'd find in beat'em ups, where they give you a nice boost, but can't be used forever. I'd prefer that wasn't the case, though, and if it really isn't, they should probably learn how to communicate mechanics a bit better. I understand not wanting to say everything a year before release, but they should probably be a little more forthcoming about non-story related stuff.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 13, 2019, 11:37:17 am
Honestly, I get the impression weapons will be more like the ones you'd find in beat'em ups, where they give you a nice boost, but can't be used forever. I'd prefer that wasn't the case, though, and if it really isn't, they should probably learn how to communicate mechanics a bit better. I understand not wanting to say everything a year before release, but they should probably be a little more forthcoming about non-story related stuff.

It does sound like that indeed, that's where our concerns mostly lie.

But hey, we're extremely lucky in several regards: we got the original writer in Brian Mitsoda, the original composer in Rik Schaffer, an amazing publishing company in Paradox. The only way this could get better is if the Troika founders pitched in as well.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 13, 2019, 11:48:02 am
Honestly, I get the impression weapons will be more like the ones you'd find in beat'em ups, where they give you a nice boost, but can't be used forever. I'd prefer that wasn't the case, though, and if it really isn't, they should probably learn how to communicate mechanics a bit better. I understand not wanting to say everything a year before release, but they should probably be a little more forthcoming about non-story related stuff.

An excellent analogy.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 13, 2019, 11:54:59 am
It does sound like that indeed, that's where our concerns mostly lie.

But hey, we're extremely lucky in several regards: we got the original writer in Brian Mitsoda, the original composer in Rik Schaffer, an amazing publishing company in Paradox. The only way this could get better is if the Troika founders pitched in as well.

I agree that having Mitsoda and Schaffer is great, but I am not sure about Paradox. I own several of their games, and some of the DLC plans are insane (Crusader Kings 2's DLCs are a mixed bag, for example, and they are almost all overpriced). I don't know if Paradox is good with the developers, however, I didn't hear anything one way or the other on that front.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 13, 2019, 12:05:16 pm
It does sound like that indeed, that's where our concerns mostly lie.

But hey, we're extremely lucky in several regards: we got the original writer in Brian Mitsoda, the original composer in Rik Schaffer, an amazing publishing company in Paradox. The only way this could get better is if the Troika founders pitched in as well.

I agree that having Mitsoda and Schaffer is great, but I am not sure about Paradox. I own several of their games, and some of the DLC plans are insane (Crusader Kings 2's DLCs are a mixed bag, for example, and they are almost all overpriced). I don't know if Paradox is good with the developers, however, I didn't hear anything one way or the other on that front.

Thankfully the other two Clans that will come out after launch will be free, but the werewolf DLC has me pretty concerned. It's difficult to imagine that they're going to create a new hub so I figure they will just slap new NPCs into the same environment and it might just feel kind of like a big expensive mod...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on May 13, 2019, 12:29:16 pm
Thankfully the other two Clans that will come out after launch will be free, but the werewolf DLC has me pretty concerned. It's difficult to imagine that they're going to create a new hub so I figure they will just slap new NPCs into the same environment and it might just feel kind of like a big expensive mod...

If they add more clans with that DLC, I can see how they would re-use the same locations and NPCs for the most part, and the main source of variety would come from the new disciplines, perhaps some clan-related quests and other content specific to the new clans. Still, if they didn't add something for all the clans, or something suitably large for the new clans, I'd be disappointed.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 14, 2019, 12:53:19 am
Thankfully the other two Clans that will come out after launch will be free, but the werewolf DLC has me pretty concerned. It's difficult to imagine that they're going to create a new hub so I figure they will just slap new NPCs into the same environment and it might just feel kind of like a big expensive mod...

If they add more clans with that DLC, I can see how they would re-use the same locations and NPCs for the most part, and the main source of variety would come from the new disciplines, perhaps some clan-related quests and other content specific to the new clans. Still, if they didn't add something for all the clans, or something suitably large for the new clans, I'd be disappointed.

I mean if the clans are free (they said they are), then I don't care if they are putting a few new NPCs in the same old map. It's the big, pricey Werewolf DLC that has me thinking they might get lazy and just reuse the hub without adding enough new stuff. I would honestly like an entirely new hub map for the Werewolf DLC with a buncha quests. They could reasonably sprinkle a couple of quests into all the other hub maps for the Werewolf DLC as well.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 14, 2019, 02:07:59 am
Thankfully the other two Clans that will come out after launch will be free, but the werewolf DLC has me pretty concerned. It's difficult to imagine that they're going to create a new hub so I figure they will just slap new NPCs into the same environment and it might just feel kind of like a big expensive mod...

Have a little faith bro, lol.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 14, 2019, 09:56:49 am
I mean if the clans are free (they said they are), then I don't care if they are putting a few new NPCs in the same old map.
I agree that we shouldn´t expect too much from this free Clan DLC.
Well maybe a little more for Malkavian or Nosferatu Clan DLC.

Quote
It's the big, pricey Werewolf DLC that has me thinking they might get lazy and just reuse the hub without adding enough new stuff. I would honestly like an entirely new hub map for the Werewolf DLC with a buncha quests. They could reasonably sprinkle a couple of quests into all the other hub maps for the Werewolf DLC as well.
And why?
I played through several Story DLC over the years and almost evey time it was a new map. Fallout, TES, Witcher, Mass Effect or Dragon Age you named it.

But the overall problem was more that besides some rare exceptions these kind of DLCs weren´t connected to the Basegame.
In my opinion there lies the laziness if you still want to label this.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 14, 2019, 12:27:03 pm
I mean if the clans are free (they said they are), then I don't care if they are putting a few new NPCs in the same old map.
I agree that we shouldn´t expect too much from this free Clan DLC.
Well maybe a little more for Malkavian or Nosferatu Clan DLC.

Quote
It's the big, pricey Werewolf DLC that has me thinking they might get lazy and just reuse the hub without adding enough new stuff. I would honestly like an entirely new hub map for the Werewolf DLC with a buncha quests. They could reasonably sprinkle a couple of quests into all the other hub maps for the Werewolf DLC as well.
And why?
I played through several Story DLC over the years and almost evey time it was a new map. Fallout, TES, Witcher, Mass Effect or Dragon Age you named it.

But the overall problem was more that besides some rare exceptions these kind of DLCs weren´t connected to the Basegame.
In my opinion there lies the laziness if you still want to label this.

You kinda touched on something I would hate, which will probably be the case: the DLC not being connected to the main game. This is why I didn't bother with the Deus Ex Mankind Divided DLC. It's a separate mini-campaign which does not give Aram Jensen any loot or praxis points in the main game, nor does it use your character from the main game.

What I would like, however, would be for the werewolf DLC to take place AFTER the main storyline, and you import your endgame character. After all, we're dealing with frickin' werewolves, so our character being powerful shouldn't be an issue. But where would we go from there for any future DLC? Far are too powerful, as are mummies, and mages would likely be difficult for the devs to implement. Douchebag mages would be pretty fun to deal with, though, as would a group of violent Changelings, their fetches, or a new Hunter faction with various characters, both immediately hostile and not.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: EeeKitties on May 15, 2019, 01:26:22 pm
Toreador confirmed btw, updated main post with link.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on May 15, 2019, 05:01:40 pm
Toreador clan page is up:
https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/toreador

(https://orebtvnsretjvneokqmefoiunm.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/img/bGaPsfafAFAHUA5Chz-img-half-1-gls2ga.jpeg)

Clan Introduction - Toreador - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 15, 2019, 07:29:29 pm
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 15, 2019, 09:08:27 pm


Shit, son. I wasn't expecting aural porn! I like it better than the original theme. :D
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 16, 2019, 03:33:38 am


Rik is back baby. RIK IS BACK !!!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 16, 2019, 04:05:01 pm
And here is the interview to the Toreador:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/425211473
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Zanderat on May 16, 2019, 09:18:56 pm

Wow.  Really good.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 17, 2019, 12:39:59 am
Rik... is back :') !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: YamiRaziel on May 22, 2019, 06:34:13 am
That's the theme we've been waiting for!

P.S I still love the B1 theme more though :)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 22, 2019, 08:13:43 am
As we all suspected, Ventrue are up. <3

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: EeeKitties on May 22, 2019, 11:56:35 am
Looks like it wasn't supposed to go up yet as it's deleted now. Someone left a summary on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/vtmb/comments/brl2c2/vtm_bloodlines_2_clan_introduction_ventrue/eoexg7t/) though.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 22, 2019, 12:46:23 pm
Here is my summary:

- Florian said that they chose the classic Bloodlines 1 clans so there is a better chance to make Bloodlines 3 latter with the more rare clans and bloodlines.
- Florian then talked a lot about the Ventrue clan itself which isn't really important for the game. The curse will again be some kind of feeding disadvantage.
- The first discipline is Domination, which is different from Presence as it will only affect one victim but with specific commands.
- The second discipline is Fortitude, with no more details mentioned, but it seems so be similar to how it was in Bloodlines 1.
- There will be Bloodheal, and it's always available like I added it with the Unofficial Patch and it will cost Blood to use it.
- There will be no Bloodbuff, but basically the V5 analogue Bloodrouse will always be active, like when you scale walls or rush around.
- Melee weapons will only break if you put all your vampiric strength into attacks.
- Firearms do not break, but the player will throw them away if they run out of ammo.
- It was said again that the game will come out on all major stores with no exclusive deals.
- The characters shown on the clan pages are not player characters but NPCs who we will meet.
- There will be multiple text only translations.
- Face customisation will be not by slider but by options.
- Music will be done by Rik Schaffer again, which we already knew.
- Lastly Florian said that some questions are not answered because of spoilers and because they are assholes :)!

Next week for the final clan reveal someone else will be there in his place and we are free to speculate about who that will be...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 22, 2019, 01:41:10 pm
This time Polygon has the clan video first on their website.
The Ventrue Sneak Peek Power looks like Dominate Command.
https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/22/18634675/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-trailer-ventrue

- Florian said that they chose the classic Bloodlines 1 clans so there is a better chance to make Bloodlines 3 latter with the more rare clans and bloodlines.
To be honest this a bit lame for a Sequel. There should atleast one new clan which hasn´t been in Bloodlines 1.
Also i would love to play Bloodlines 3 but that really depends if  Bloodlines 2 would become a success.

Quote
- There will be no Bloodbuff, but basically the V5 analogue Bloodrouse will always be active, like when you scale walls or rush around.
I really like Bloodbuff for lockpicking lets hope that we don´t need Bloodbuff in 2.

Quote
Next week for the final clan reveal someone else will be there in his place and we are free to speculate about who that will be...
If they focus only on Bloodlines 1 clans it could only mean Malkavian or Nosferatu. Lasombra would be cool but they weren´t in Bloodlines 1 as a clan
and Gangrel they clearly are one of the clan DLC or even part of the Season of the Wolf expansion.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 22, 2019, 02:40:40 pm
Looks like it wasn't supposed to go up yet as it's deleted now. Someone left a summary on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/vtmb/comments/brl2c2/vtm_bloodlines_2_clan_introduction_ventrue/eoexg7t/) though.
The video is online again.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on May 22, 2019, 05:04:19 pm
Ventrue clan page is up:
https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/ventrue

(https://orebtvnsretjvneokqmefoiunm.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/img/1f2vfpc51x-i-h-p-yopv4v.png)

Clan Introduction - Ventrue - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 23, 2019, 06:37:05 am
The ventrue model just looks like an US republican asshole. Which... might be fitting ?!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 23, 2019, 07:11:08 am
The ventrue model just looks like an US republican asshole. Which... might be fitting ?!

Democrats can't wear suits? Shit, Obama fucked up.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 24, 2019, 12:41:32 am
Democrats can't wear suits? Shit, Obama fucked up.

They sure can but that Ventrue is a whole 'nother level of asshole :D !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 24, 2019, 12:48:33 am
Democrats can't wear suits? Shit, Obama fucked up.

They sure can but that Ventrue is a whole 'nother level of asshole :D !

We haven't even met him in the game yet. Someone's prejudiced...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Happydeathclaw on May 24, 2019, 05:27:50 pm
Ventrue model kind of looks like Christopher Walken in his younger days
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 24, 2019, 05:47:07 pm
Ventrue model kind of looks like Christopher Walken in his younger days

If this wasn't the Bloodlines 2 links page, I would link to the Weapon of Choice music video because you brought up Walken. =p
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 24, 2019, 08:01:19 pm
Ventrue model kind of looks like Christopher Walken in his younger days

If this wasn't the Bloodlines 2 links page, I would link to the Weapon of Choice music video because you brought up Walken. =p

Why not just do it?  I would if the whim took me.  lol
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 25, 2019, 04:58:54 am
Ventrue model kind of looks like Christopher Walken in his younger days

If this wasn't the Bloodlines 2 links page, I would link to the Weapon of Choice music video because you brought up Walken. =p

Why not just do it?  I would if the whim took me.  lol

SO BE IT!


Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 05:32:06 am
Ventrue model kind of looks like Christopher Walken in his younger days

If this wasn't the Bloodlines 2 links page, I would link to the Weapon of Choice music video because you brought up Walken. =p

Why not just do it?  I would if the whim took me.  lol

SO BE IT!




Holy crap I have NEVER seen this before.  Its bloody BRILLIANT!  LOL
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 25, 2019, 05:53:57 pm
Holy crap I have NEVER seen this before.  Its bloody BRILLIANT!  LOL

Hahaha, seriously? You've been missing out, man. :D
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 25, 2019, 10:25:32 pm
Holy crap I have NEVER seen this before.  Its bloody BRILLIANT!  LOL

Hahaha, seriously? You've been missing out, man. :D

I have been!  Its a shame!  But thanks to you, the shame has been corrected!  lol
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 26, 2019, 05:08:47 am
Holy crap I have NEVER seen this before.  Its bloody BRILLIANT!  LOL

Hahaha, seriously? You've been missing out, man. :D

I have been!  Its a shame!  But thanks to you, the shame has been corrected!  lol

My purpose on this Earth is fulfilled, then. <3
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 26, 2019, 07:18:42 am
Holy crap I have NEVER seen this before.  Its bloody BRILLIANT!  LOL

Hahaha, seriously? You've been missing out, man. :D

I have been!  Its a shame!  But thanks to you, the shame has been corrected!  lol

My purpose on this Earth is fulfilled, then. <3

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKvoVnHv17OQgCI/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 26, 2019, 08:19:17 pm
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKvoVnHv17OQgCI/giphy.gif)

Fuck my life... is that Aaliyah :'( ?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 26, 2019, 09:23:02 pm
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKvoVnHv17OQgCI/giphy.gif)

Fuck my life... is that Aaliyah :'( ?

Yes and she's the Queen.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 26, 2019, 11:27:52 pm
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKvoVnHv17OQgCI/giphy.gif)

Fuck my life... is that Aaliyah :'( ?

Yes and she's the Queen.

I know it's artistically some lame shit, but I much prefer Queen of the Damned to Interview with a Vampire.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 26, 2019, 11:36:44 pm
I know it's artistically some lame shit, but I much prefer Queen of the Damned to Interview with a Vampire.

I want to see both again. I absolutely adored Queen of the Damned when I was 14.

Now I'm 31 in a couple of weeks and I'm not really sure how I might see it.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 27, 2019, 12:04:24 am
I know it's artistically some lame shit, but I much prefer Queen of the Damned to Interview with a Vampire.

I want to see both again. I absolutely adored Queen of the Damned when I was 14.

Now I'm 31 in a couple of weeks and I'm not really sure how I might see it.

I was very young when I first saw it as well and damn, I thought Lestat was hot as hell.  lol
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 27, 2019, 01:35:28 am
I was very young when I first saw it as well and damn, I thought Lestat was hot as hell.  lol

First black lady I ever fancied was Aaliyah.

Maybe that movie sucks... but at least it had pretty people !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 27, 2019, 03:15:06 am
I was very young when I first saw it as well and damn, I thought Lestat was hot as hell.  lol

First black lady I ever fancied was Aaliyah.

Maybe that movie sucks... but at least it had pretty people !

THAT it did!  Loved the book too.  In fact I think "Queen of the Damned" is my favorite Vampire Chronicles Book.  There are so many of them now I have lost track and am far behind.  I think the last one I read was "Blackwood Farm". 

As to the state of the film and its writing, perhaps at least some of that can be attributed to the untimely demise of the Queen before all of her scenes were shot.  I have MAD respect for the director for refusing to recast the character of Akasha and cut Aaliyah from the film.  That would have been heart breaking.  So they worked with what they had the best they could in her honor.  Maybe that doesn't totally explain it but I think it does at least partially.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 27, 2019, 09:09:17 am
I know it's artistically some lame shit, but I much prefer Queen of the Damned to Interview with a Vampire.

Me too! I found Interview with a Vampire rather boring in comparison and the QotD Lestat is pretty much a Bloodlines Toreador how I would envision him.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 27, 2019, 03:40:42 pm
I know it's artistically some lame shit, but I much prefer Queen of the Damned to Interview with a Vampire.

Me too! I found Interview with a Vampire rather boring in comparison and the QotD Lestat is pretty much a Bloodlines Toreador how I would envision him.

That's actually a really good point. He does feel like a Bloodlines Toreador...albeit one breaking the Masquerade like crazy, but still! He's an obvious artist (musician), is fascinated by and cares (more than other vampires) about humans (reporter lady, I think?), and he uses Celerity.

It has a happy ending that I think would disgust a lot of folks, but I found the rest of the movie to be dark enough to make it enjoyable. And I'm down with happy endings if they "work." Or if they're anything alternative to the ME3 endings. ;D
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 27, 2019, 06:16:20 pm
I know it's artistically some lame shit, but I much prefer Queen of the Damned to Interview with a Vampire.

Me too! I found Interview with a Vampire rather boring in comparison and the QotD Lestat is pretty much a Bloodlines Toreador how I would envision him.

Me too! QoTD Lestat was the ultimate Toreador!

Louis from IWTV is another Toreador archetype...Embraced on a whim for his beauty, he struggles with his new existence and tries to keep a high humanity score. Is prone to melancholy.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 29, 2019, 03:30:57 am
Me too! QoTD Lestat was the ultimate Toreador!

An amazingly masquerade-breaking one though xD !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on May 29, 2019, 11:38:57 am
Clan Introduction - Malkavian - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 29, 2019, 11:53:08 am
Clan Introduction - Malkavian - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2



Dafuuuuuuq? :O

It's not Nosferatu! YAY!!!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on May 29, 2019, 11:58:43 am
Rock Paper Shotgun Interview with Brian Mitsoda in regards to the Malkavians' reveal:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/05/29/malkavians-confirmed-for-bloodlines-2-we-talked-to-brian-mitsoda-on-the-new-clan-reveal/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 29, 2019, 12:09:51 pm
OK I did NOT expect that, but yay? I am curious what they'll be like.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 29, 2019, 12:32:01 pm
OK I did NOT expect that, but yay? I am curious what they'll be like.

Not sane. ;p
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on May 29, 2019, 12:50:11 pm
Well, that goes without saying :P But I was curious about the potential for a darker/more serious take on them vs going the fishmalk route again.  According to the transcript (https://forums.planetvampire.com/bloodlines-2-general-discussion/playable-clans/msg147550/#msg147550) posted by Mond_Blutgut, it seems they are going for the former more than the latter, which personally suits me just fine.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Craz on May 29, 2019, 02:51:50 pm
Clan Introduction - Malkavian - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2



Well.. guess i lost that bet. There goes the whole, ''player-fantasy'' thing they were touting around so much.

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2iswe9s.jpg)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 29, 2019, 03:26:37 pm
Rock Paper Shotgun Interview with Brian Mitsoda in regards to the Malkavians' reveal:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/05/29/malkavians-confirmed-for-bloodlines-2-we-talked-to-brian-mitsoda-on-the-new-clan-reveal/
"I asked if they always knew they wanted the Malks to be one of the main clans, and Mitsoda said they determined very early on that not having a Malk would result in pitchforks and torches, which isn’t exactly the same as saying yes."

A Bloodlines 2 without the Malks would be crazy even if they were DLC. The Malkavians were without any doubt the most unique and memorable clan in Bloodlines 1.
But losing the  Nosferatu is hard. Also its a pity Bloodlines 2 won´t have a complete new clan for a long time. I imagine that Nosferatu and Gangrel are coming first and
maybe after that is too late for a new free Clan DLC.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Leorgrium on May 29, 2019, 06:59:05 pm
Gameplay first-look will be June 10th: just in time for E3!

https://twitter.com/The_TBoyce/status/1133769400958382080
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Mond_Blutgut on May 29, 2019, 07:45:26 pm
Malkavian clan page is up:
https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/malkavian

(https://orebtvnsretjvneokqmefoiunm.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/img/J8Gdv42Lo-i-h-p-ce6kyx.jpg)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 29, 2019, 08:15:30 pm
Malkavian clan page is up:
https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/malkavian
Well this took more time than usual.

Too be honest the Malkavian Lady doesn´t really fit to the mysterious picture but whatever.
Also its a pity that Malks have lost Obfuscate and have only two powers in Dementation. I kinda miss Hysteria / Veil of Madness maybe just for giggles.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 29, 2019, 10:51:41 pm
Malkavian clan page is up:
https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/malkavian

(https://orebtvnsretjvneokqmefoiunm.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/img/J8Gdv42Lo-i-h-p-ce6kyx.jpg)

I hope that if some clothing is clan-themed that the Malk stuff is more along these lines...odd, but not grating, at least in my opinion. I know some people think the Malk female stuff in the first game was "over-sexed," and I for one found the male stuff you could wear in the first game just...incredibly off-putting. Zany for the sake of zany...classic "fishmalk" as they say.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: YamiRaziel on May 29, 2019, 11:55:29 pm
I really love what I read about the Malks. I think this might be much better than the fish malks which we already got once.
That doesn't mean they can't be funny, but a dark / more disturbed approach will also be pretty interesting.

I'm also a bit bummed about not having Nosferatu. I think they're just as important to Bloodlines as the Malks.

I would gladly trade the Toreadors for Nosferatu.

What non-B1 clans are you hoping in the DLCs? Lasombra, Tzimisce or something even more interesting?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 30, 2019, 12:08:44 am
I would gladly trade the Toreadors for Nosferatu.

*Puts a pillow over YamiRaziel's face*

Nice to meet you Yami... now just let it happen xD ...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 30, 2019, 12:33:31 am
I would gladly trade the Toreadors for Nosferatu.

*Puts a pillow over YamiRaziel's face*

Nice to meet you Yami... now just let it happen xD ...

LOL! I'm not the biggest Toreador fan, but I'll take them any day of the week over Nosferatu, especially if Presence is as good in dialog as it is in the tabletop. Toreador are arguably the best dialog clan in the tabletop game.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 30, 2019, 10:56:19 am
I really love what I read about the Malks. I think this might be much better than the fish malks which we already got once.
That doesn't mean they can't be funny, but a dark / more disturbed approach will also be pretty interesting.

I'm also a bit bummed about not having Nosferatu. I think they're just as important to Bloodlines as the Malks.

I would gladly trade the Toreadors for Nosferatu.

What non-B1 clans are you hoping in the DLCs? Lasombra, Tzimisce or something even more interesting?

I actually would love to have Tzimisce as playable clan, but Ravnos or Assamites would be nice too.

And I agree about rather having the Nosferatu in the game than the Torreadors (*ducks and runs from Hiqhwayman*)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: argikt on May 30, 2019, 11:02:12 am
Ravnos is an always forgotten clan...
never present, never mentioned...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on May 30, 2019, 11:05:20 am
What non-B1 clans are you hoping in the DLCs? Lasombra, Tzimisce or something even more interesting?
I personally really don´t care which clan makes the cut but it has to be something new.
But if i have to choose one clan if would pick Hecata (The merge from Giovanni, Samedi and Cappadocian)
I would give the Bloodlines 2 Hecata Necromancy and Fortitude as clan discipline.
Their clan weakness could be from the Giovanni there their blood victims take more damage from biting
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 30, 2019, 11:21:25 am
Ravnos is an always forgotten clan...
never present, never mentioned...

Love Ravnos. It would be great, to have them as playable clan
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 31, 2019, 12:40:23 am
And I agree about rather having the Nosferatu in the game than the Torreadors (*ducks and runs from Hiqhwayman*)

*Loads the Dragon's Breath shotgun*

YA CAN RUN BUT YA CAN'T HIDE !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 31, 2019, 05:20:20 am
And I agree about rather having the Nosferatu in the game than the Torreadors (*ducks and runs from Hiqhwayman*)

*Loads the Dragon's Breath shotgun*

YA CAN RUN BUT YA CAN'T HIDE !

What's kinda amusingly ironic about this is that in Vampire: The Masquerade, Nossies and Torries have disdain for one another. Actually there are several clans with little disdainful relationships with one clan in particular. For instance, Tremere/Tzimisce, Brujah/Ventrue, Ventrue/Lasombra, and so on. It's interesting in the setting because some of these clans hate each other due to some ancient event that a clan "ancestor" did that made the opposing clan butthurt or vice versa, so the two Kindred who hate one another might just hate each other for something someone did long ago whom neither of them ever met.

It's a sort of vampire Hatfields and the McCoys situation, where there are legends or rumors of what happened, and a lot of the time, they just don't even know for sure what started it or if it really played out the way people claim. Of course, Nossie/Torrie disdain isn't a historical event so much as a matter of Toreadors loving beauty and being disgusted by anything ugly, and they simply can't help that disgust...so it's not them making a conscious decision to be assholes. They're just (super)naturally repulsed. And Nossies are hideous and have difficulty not being incredibly jealous of Torries, since they're dressed incredibly and are often the most gorgeous human beings.

Damn VtM is well-made in terms of its lore.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 31, 2019, 06:14:50 am
What's kinda amusingly ironic about this is that in Vampire: The Masquerade, Nossies and Torries have disdain for one another. Actually there are several clans with little disdainful relationships with one clan in particular. For instance, Tremere/Tzimisce, Brujah/Ventrue, Ventrue/Lasombra, and so on. It's interesting in the setting because some of these clans hate each other due to some ancient event that a clan "ancestor" did that made the opposing clan butthurt or vice versa, so the two Kindred who hate one another might just hate each other for something someone did long ago whom neither of them ever met.

Maybe Skelter was right, maybe the blood of all kindred is being controlled by the ancients. Maybe there is no way to escape the fate of your ancestors in the World of Darkness.

Which makes me kind of like Caine a bit more. He at least lets you make the final choice in BL1.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 31, 2019, 07:32:36 am
What's kinda amusingly ironic about this is that in Vampire: The Masquerade, Nossies and Torries have disdain for one another. Actually there are several clans with little disdainful relationships with one clan in particular. For instance, Tremere/Tzimisce, Brujah/Ventrue, Ventrue/Lasombra, and so on. It's interesting in the setting because some of these clans hate each other due to some ancient event that a clan "ancestor" did that made the opposing clan butthurt or vice versa, so the two Kindred who hate one another might just hate each other for something someone did long ago whom neither of them ever met.

Maybe Skelter was right, maybe the blood of all kindred is being controlled by the ancients. Maybe there is no way to escape the fate of your ancestors in the World of Darkness.

Which makes me kind of like Caine a bit more. He at least lets you make the final choice in BL1.

"Remember Vampire, wherever we go, it is the blood of Caine which makes our fate".   
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 31, 2019, 08:10:52 am
What's kinda amusingly ironic about this is that in Vampire: The Masquerade, Nossies and Torries have disdain for one another. Actually there are several clans with little disdainful relationships with one clan in particular. For instance, Tremere/Tzimisce, Brujah/Ventrue, Ventrue/Lasombra, and so on.

Troika actually wanted to include that into Bloodlines 1 already by a "Reactions" parameter which would influence reactions to other clans, but they never implemented it as far as I know. There is also a hint there that they planned to add other clans later, but of course they never had a chance to do so...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 31, 2019, 12:12:06 pm
What's kinda amusingly ironic about this is that in Vampire: The Masquerade, Nossies and Torries have disdain for one another. Actually there are several clans with little disdainful relationships with one clan in particular. For instance, Tremere/Tzimisce, Brujah/Ventrue, Ventrue/Lasombra, and so on.

Troika actually wanted to include that into Bloodlines 1 already by a "Reactions" parameter which would influence reactions to other clans, but they never implemented it as far as I know. There is also a hint there that they planned to add other clans later, but of course they never had a chance to do so...

As amazing as Bloodlines 1 is, there definitely do seem to be a few missed opportunities.  I have heard and read a lot of hearsay over the years, but nothing concrete.  Still, it comes as no surprise that they wanted to do some things that didn't make it into the game. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 31, 2019, 01:07:34 pm
What's kinda amusingly ironic about this is that in Vampire: The Masquerade, Nossies and Torries have disdain for one another. Actually there are several clans with little disdainful relationships with one clan in particular. For instance, Tremere/Tzimisce, Brujah/Ventrue, Ventrue/Lasombra, and so on.

Troika actually wanted to include that into Bloodlines 1 already by a "Reactions" parameter which would influence reactions to other clans, but they never implemented it as far as I know. There is also a hint there that they planned to add other clans later, but of course they never had a chance to do so...

Dang. It's a shame they didn't get the opportunity. I think that Bloodlines 2 is doing a lot better in regard to its marketing so far, which is nice. Also, the first game kinda sells the second, given that enough time has passed that people have either played it and know true magnificence, or have at least heard of its opulent splendor. Of course, the fact that Activision made them put the game out THE SAME DAY AS HALF-LIFE 2 didn't help increase sales. Holy shit Activision was stupid there...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on May 31, 2019, 01:26:53 pm
What's kinda amusingly ironic about this is that in Vampire: The Masquerade, Nossies and Torries have disdain for one another. Actually there are several clans with little disdainful relationships with one clan in particular. For instance, Tremere/Tzimisce, Brujah/Ventrue, Ventrue/Lasombra, and so on.

Troika actually wanted to include that into Bloodlines 1 already by a "Reactions" parameter which would influence reactions to other clans, but they never implemented it as far as I know. There is also a hint there that they planned to add other clans later, but of course they never had a chance to do so...

Dang. It's a shame they didn't get the opportunity. I think that Bloodlines 2 is doing a lot better in regard to its marketing so far, which is nice. Also, the first game kinda sells the second, given that enough time has passed that people have either played it and know true magnificence, or have at least heard of its opulent splendor. Of course, the fact that Activision made them put the game out THE SAME DAY AS HALF-LIFE 2 didn't help increase sales. Holy shit Activision was stupid there...

I will forever be pretty angry with ActiVision over how they treated and handled VtmB.  But I agree that the original game sells the second and we have Wesp to thank for that for the vast most part.   
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 01, 2019, 12:07:05 am
"Remember Vampire, wherever we go, it is the blood of Caine which makes our fate".

I hate you so much, now I want to start ANOTHER playthrough !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 01, 2019, 02:28:27 am
"Remember Vampire, wherever we go, it is the blood of Caine which makes our fate".

I hate you so much, now I want to start ANOTHER playthrough !

(https://media.giphy.com/media/tXTqLBYNf0N7W/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 01, 2019, 02:48:33 am
I mean, who wouldn't want to play this magnificent build of a kindred ?

(https://i.imgur.com/91mL4tP.png)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 01, 2019, 04:29:26 am
I mean, who wouldn't want to play this magnificent build of a kindred ?

(https://i.imgur.com/91mL4tP.png)

DUDE!   You are SO ready to go fight a werewolf now!!!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 01, 2019, 07:09:16 am
I mean, who wouldn't want to play this magnificent build of a kindred ?

(https://i.imgur.com/91mL4tP.png)

Screeeech! No starting DEX?!?! Heresy!!!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 01, 2019, 07:15:23 am
Screeeech! No starting DEX?!?! Heresy!!!

Sexyness before speedyness, always !

And once you learn Bloodbuff is actually useful then you can always leave that feat for later.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 01, 2019, 03:00:18 pm
Screeeech! No starting DEX?!?! Heresy!!!

Sexyness before speedyness, always !

And once you learn Bloodbuff is actually useful then you can always leave that feat for later.

Lmao, well I hope that Bloodlines 2 better caters to seduction than Bloodlines 1. Persuasion is objectively superior in terms of outcomes, and male characters are dogshit compared to females when seduction is involved. I can only imagine DarkZephyr's woes being a crappy seducer while male and having pretty much no relevant male seduction options. =/

With seduction in Bloodlines 1, I went in expecting my seductive skills and affections to have all the NPCs adoring me and being my beloved. Instead, it was largely disappointing and I just ended up pissed off and wishing I could make them love me when they didn't care...


(https://i.gifer.com/2Rxv.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 01, 2019, 07:23:15 pm
Screeeech! No starting DEX?!?! Heresy!!!

Sexyness before speedyness, always !

And once you learn Bloodbuff is actually useful then you can always leave that feat for later.

Lmao, well I hope that Bloodlines 2 better caters to seduction than Bloodlines 1. Persuasion is objectively superior in terms of outcomes, and male characters are dogshit compared to females when seduction is involved. I can only imagine DarkZephyr's woes being a crappy seducer while male and having pretty much no relevant male seduction options. =/

With seduction in Bloodlines 1, I went in expecting my seductive skills and affections to have all the NPCs adoring me and being my beloved. Instead, it was largely disappointing and I just ended up pissed off and wishing I could make them love me when they didn't care...


(https://i.gifer.com/2Rxv.gif)

Right?  I mean...I went in thinking I was gonna have 'em all swooning over me....

(https://media.giphy.com/media/LTDF75vJBxjUY/giphy.gif)

...and what ended up happening instead?  Why...most males didn't HAVE a seduction dialogue option and most of the ones that did...well that hunky bohunk BRIAN guy acted like he wanted to vomit in my face....

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xWZPwTAh2wJfG/giphy.gif)

So...I was simply forced to EAT his face. 

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/MTIlCC1511AME/giphy.gif)

It was all very traumatic, you see. 

Fortunately Wesp came along and added the "Homosexual" history for the Plus Patch and then SatanuReeves and Reficule made the "Bachelor the Masquerade" and "Seduce dialogs for males" mods, respectively. 

Now I can seduce 'em all the way my beautiful Ventrue and Tremere were meant to!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/iePzLKEz1Xq9mRF9Kg/giphy.gif)

And based on what I have been hearing, the sequel won't make us have to wait 13 years for a mod to make it all happen! 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/UGRW3s6AgJyRa/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 01, 2019, 08:04:22 pm
GIMME ALL DA MEN! (paraphrasing)

What did the "Homosexual" history do for characters? Magically turn all the straight characters gay, or? =p

Oh, and in the tabletop game, technically you can ACTUALLY do that with Presence. XD  There is literally a fall-in-love Discipline where you can use Presence for make the person instantly be in love with you. This can affect Kindred, too. Turn straights gay, turn gays straight, etc.

However things turn out in Bloodlines 2, I wanna screw everything that moves when I play Toreador if they'll let me...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 01, 2019, 08:27:57 pm
GIMME ALL DA MEN! (paraphrasing)

What did the "Homosexual" history do for characters? Magically turn all the straight characters gay, or? =p

Oh, and in the tabletop game, technically you can ACTUALLY do that with Presence. XD  There is literally a fall-in-love Discipline where you can use Presence for make the person instantly be in love with you. This can affect Kindred, too. Turn straights gay, turn gays straight, etc.

However things turn out in Bloodlines 2, I wanna screw everything that moves when I play Toreador if they'll let me...

The "Homosexual" history made my sire a male instead of a female (that always bugged the hell out of me lol).  It was the "Bachelor the Masquerade" and "Seduce Dialogs for Males" mods that made 'em all gay.

Your point about "presence" is one of the reasons I thought it was so annoying that Bloodlines 1 was so heteronormative.   

However things turn out in Bloodlines 2, I wanna screw everything that moves when I play Toreador, Ventrue, Tremere, Brujah, Malkavian, Thinblood, etc.  They better let me. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/QURw7PsfH15CKw5U4b/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 01, 2019, 09:49:25 pm
GIMME ALL DA MEN! (paraphrasing)

What did the "Homosexual" history do for characters? Magically turn all the straight characters gay, or? =p

Oh, and in the tabletop game, technically you can ACTUALLY do that with Presence. XD  There is literally a fall-in-love Discipline where you can use Presence for make the person instantly be in love with you. This can affect Kindred, too. Turn straights gay, turn gays straight, etc.

However things turn out in Bloodlines 2, I wanna screw everything that moves when I play Toreador if they'll let me...

The "Homosexual" history made my sire a male instead of a female (that always bugged the hell out of me lol).  It was the "Bachelor the Masquerade" and "Seduce Dialogs for Males" mods that made 'em all gay.

Your point about "presence" is one of the reasons I thought it was so annoying that Bloodlines 1 was so heteronormative.   

However things turn out in Bloodlines 2, I wanna screw everything that moves when I play Toreador, Ventrue, Tremere, Brujah, Malkavian, Thinblood, etc.  They better let me. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/QURw7PsfH15CKw5U4b/giphy.gif)

That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 02, 2019, 12:53:38 am
That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...

Hopefully!  Although this IS a Vampire the Masquerade game...and Jyhad IS everywhere....so there probably WILL be guys AND gals who want to use you and have hidden agendas that are just waiting to bite you in your undead ass when you least expect it.  So...there probably will be a couple DA2 Anders types, male and female. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 02, 2019, 01:49:03 am
That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...

Hopefully!  Although this IS a Vampire the Masquerade game...and Jyhad IS everywhere....so there probably WILL be guys AND gals who want to use you and have hidden agendas that are just waiting to bite you in your undead ass when you least expect it.  So...there probably will be a couple DA2 Anders types, male and female.

Well, I didn't mean being used...I meant like...I don't want a whiny bitch. Anders in DA2 was super needy and insecure.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 02, 2019, 02:23:04 am
That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...

Hopefully!  Although this IS a Vampire the Masquerade game...and Jyhad IS everywhere....so there probably WILL be guys AND gals who want to use you and have hidden agendas that are just waiting to bite you in your undead ass when you least expect it.  So...there probably will be a couple DA2 Anders types, male and female.

Well, I didn't mean being used...I meant like...I don't want a whiny bitch. Anders in DA2 was super needy and insecure.

Ah yes, his "plight".  I wonder why they did that to him.  He was so awesome in Awakenings.  He was a fan favorite.  Everyone was excited when they first heard he was making a return to the franchise and when I found out he would be open to dating dudes, I was so excited.  Then when we saw him he was a completely different person.  I also hated what they did to Justice. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 02, 2019, 03:21:53 am
That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...

Hopefully!  Although this IS a Vampire the Masquerade game...and Jyhad IS everywhere....so there probably WILL be guys AND gals who want to use you and have hidden agendas that are just waiting to bite you in your undead ass when you least expect it.  So...there probably will be a couple DA2 Anders types, male and female.

Well, I didn't mean being used...I meant like...I don't want a whiny bitch. Anders in DA2 was super needy and insecure.

Ah yes, his "plight".  I wonder why they did that to him.  He was so awesome in Awakenings.  He was a fan favorite.  Everyone was excited when they first heard he was making a return to the franchise and when I found out he would be open to dating dudes, I was so excited.  Then when we saw him he was a completely different person.  I also hated what they did to Justice.

I like the idea of what they did to Justice ("Vengeance," I think?), but like pretty much everything Anders-related in DA2, it was all not-good. I didn't finish Awakenings because of a game-stopping bug, but Anders was my favorite character in it so far before the bug. Then in DA2, he's all clingy and blehhhh.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 02, 2019, 04:18:51 am
That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...

Hopefully!  Although this IS a Vampire the Masquerade game...and Jyhad IS everywhere....so there probably WILL be guys AND gals who want to use you and have hidden agendas that are just waiting to bite you in your undead ass when you least expect it.  So...there probably will be a couple DA2 Anders types, male and female.

Well, I didn't mean being used...I meant like...I don't want a whiny bitch. Anders in DA2 was super needy and insecure.

Ah yes, his "plight".  I wonder why they did that to him.  He was so awesome in Awakenings.  He was a fan favorite.  Everyone was excited when they first heard he was making a return to the franchise and when I found out he would be open to dating dudes, I was so excited.  Then when we saw him he was a completely different person.  I also hated what they did to Justice.

I like the idea of what they did to Justice ("Vengeance," I think?), but like pretty much everything Anders-related in DA2, it was all not-good. I didn't finish Awakenings because of a game-stopping bug, but Anders was my favorite character in it so far before the bug. Then in DA2, he's all clingy and blehhhh.

Yeah, I figured originally that Anders was gonna be my go to dude, but lol after that playthrough I sure was glad Fenris was bisexual.  lol 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 02, 2019, 04:52:52 am
That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...

Hopefully!  Although this IS a Vampire the Masquerade game...and Jyhad IS everywhere....so there probably WILL be guys AND gals who want to use you and have hidden agendas that are just waiting to bite you in your undead ass when you least expect it.  So...there probably will be a couple DA2 Anders types, male and female.

Well, I didn't mean being used...I meant like...I don't want a whiny bitch. Anders in DA2 was super needy and insecure.

Ah yes, his "plight".  I wonder why they did that to him.  He was so awesome in Awakenings.  He was a fan favorite.  Everyone was excited when they first heard he was making a return to the franchise and when I found out he would be open to dating dudes, I was so excited.  Then when we saw him he was a completely different person.  I also hated what they did to Justice.

I like the idea of what they did to Justice ("Vengeance," I think?), but like pretty much everything Anders-related in DA2, it was all not-good. I didn't finish Awakenings because of a game-stopping bug, but Anders was my favorite character in it so far before the bug. Then in DA2, he's all clingy and blehhhh.

Yeah, I figured originally that Anders was gonna be my go to dude, but lol after that playthrough I sure was glad Fenris was bisexual.  lol

I forgot that guy! Fenris was legit. Dude, do you think those glowy tattoo things covered his buns and man-bits? Lots of potential for either cool-looking or hilarious-looking markings on those. :D
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 02, 2019, 05:11:05 am
That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...

Hopefully!  Although this IS a Vampire the Masquerade game...and Jyhad IS everywhere....so there probably WILL be guys AND gals who want to use you and have hidden agendas that are just waiting to bite you in your undead ass when you least expect it.  So...there probably will be a couple DA2 Anders types, male and female.

Well, I didn't mean being used...I meant like...I don't want a whiny bitch. Anders in DA2 was super needy and insecure.

Ah yes, his "plight".  I wonder why they did that to him.  He was so awesome in Awakenings.  He was a fan favorite.  Everyone was excited when they first heard he was making a return to the franchise and when I found out he would be open to dating dudes, I was so excited.  Then when we saw him he was a completely different person.  I also hated what they did to Justice.

I like the idea of what they did to Justice ("Vengeance," I think?), but like pretty much everything Anders-related in DA2, it was all not-good. I didn't finish Awakenings because of a game-stopping bug, but Anders was my favorite character in it so far before the bug. Then in DA2, he's all clingy and blehhhh.

Yeah, I figured originally that Anders was gonna be my go to dude, but lol after that playthrough I sure was glad Fenris was bisexual.  lol

I forgot that guy! Fenris was legit. Dude, do you think those glowy tattoo things covered his buns and man-bits? Lots of potential for either cool-looking or hilarious-looking markings on those. :D

Some people seem to think they do!  lol

There are even sexier pics than this but I figured I better keep it PG lol

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/147a5a50-9906-4073-b677-b0511b93dd3a/d3g5b4u-6b16ba6c-aded-43ec-b400-210674313f89.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzE0N2E1YTUwLTk5MDYtNDA3My1iNjc3LWIwNTExYjkzZGQzYVwvZDNnNWI0dS02YjE2YmE2Yy1hZGVkLTQzZWMtYjQwMC0yMTA2NzQzMTNmODkuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.sxJYUCFK62AYs5kEliRsNsjQdl8tn1HJYLT3uBrUQ-I)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 02, 2019, 07:08:25 am
That's the spirit! Dudes had better be more DA1 Zevran and less DA2 Anders...

Hopefully!  Although this IS a Vampire the Masquerade game...and Jyhad IS everywhere....so there probably WILL be guys AND gals who want to use you and have hidden agendas that are just waiting to bite you in your undead ass when you least expect it.  So...there probably will be a couple DA2 Anders types, male and female.

Well, I didn't mean being used...I meant like...I don't want a whiny bitch. Anders in DA2 was super needy and insecure.

Ah yes, his "plight".  I wonder why they did that to him.  He was so awesome in Awakenings.  He was a fan favorite.  Everyone was excited when they first heard he was making a return to the franchise and when I found out he would be open to dating dudes, I was so excited.  Then when we saw him he was a completely different person.  I also hated what they did to Justice.

I like the idea of what they did to Justice ("Vengeance," I think?), but like pretty much everything Anders-related in DA2, it was all not-good. I didn't finish Awakenings because of a game-stopping bug, but Anders was my favorite character in it so far before the bug. Then in DA2, he's all clingy and blehhhh.

Yeah, I figured originally that Anders was gonna be my go to dude, but lol after that playthrough I sure was glad Fenris was bisexual.  lol

I forgot that guy! Fenris was legit. Dude, do you think those glowy tattoo things covered his buns and man-bits? Lots of potential for either cool-looking or hilarious-looking markings on those. :D

Some people seem to think they do!  lol

There are even sexier pics than this but I figured I better keep it PG lol

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/147a5a50-9906-4073-b677-b0511b93dd3a/d3g5b4u-6b16ba6c-aded-43ec-b400-210674313f89.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzE0N2E1YTUwLTk5MDYtNDA3My1iNjc3LWIwNTExYjkzZGQzYVwvZDNnNWI0dS02YjE2YmE2Yy1hZGVkLTQzZWMtYjQwMC0yMTA2NzQzMTNmODkuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.sxJYUCFK62AYs5kEliRsNsjQdl8tn1HJYLT3uBrUQ-I)

Could you imagine the kickass rave dance he could do with those tattoos? :O  Cyberpunk characters would be so freaking jelly.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 02, 2019, 08:43:09 am
Some people seem to think they do!  lol

There are even sexier pics than this but I figured I better keep it PG lol

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/147a5a50-9906-4073-b677-b0511b93dd3a/d3g5b4u-6b16ba6c-aded-43ec-b400-210674313f89.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzE0N2E1YTUwLTk5MDYtNDA3My1iNjc3LWIwNTExYjkzZGQzYVwvZDNnNWI0dS02YjE2YmE2Yy1hZGVkLTQzZWMtYjQwMC0yMTA2NzQzMTNmODkuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.sxJYUCFK62AYs5kEliRsNsjQdl8tn1HJYLT3uBrUQ-I)

Could you imagine the kickass rave dance he could do with those tattoos? :O  Cyberpunk characters would be so freaking jelly.

Would be pretty badass!  Fenris is one of the few Dragon Age friendly characters that actually looks like he comes from a High Fantasy setting with those tats and that oversize sword. 

The practical clothing in this series is HIDEOUS.  lol And the hairstyles.  I love BioWare's ability to tell a story and its character development, but holy sh** it sucks at making hairstyles and clothing. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 02, 2019, 03:34:56 pm
Would deffinitely love it if Fenris came back in DA4 :D !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on June 02, 2019, 03:47:20 pm
I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 02, 2019, 04:54:42 pm
I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Varric is the man. He's funny, clever, and best of all: not annoying while still having a presence. Oh dang was romancing Anders as femHawke doable, too? Ouch, wasn't he SO clingy?!?! He was like all pouty and whiny and just the worst.

As for Fenris' "mages are bad" talks, it was fun flirting with him as a mage. XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 02, 2019, 05:59:07 pm
Would deffinitely love it if Fenris came back in DA4 :D !

Yes it would!  His voice actor is great.  And it would be nice to see him outside of DA2's stylized "a story is being told" body models.  They looked OK for the humans even though the waist was a bit long and shoulders a bit broad, but the elves' bodies looked ridiculous.  Like stick figures and they all had noses that made me think of what a klingon's (Next Generation era) nose would look like if it ever got ironed out. 

I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Fenris was hard to romance, so its awesome that you carried on an accidental romance with him.  Anders on the other hand falls in love with you if you do one flirt, it seems.  lol 

I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Varric is the man. He's funny, clever, and best of all: not annoying while still having a presence. Oh dang was romancing Anders as femHawke doable, too? Ouch, wasn't he SO clingy?!?! He was like all pouty and whiny and just the worst.

As for Fenris' "mages are bad" talks, it was fun flirting with him as a mage. XD

I can understand why Fenris had an aversion to mages.  Magisters tortured him and turned his sister against him, he had serious PTSD.  That being said, he should have toned it down when it came to mages outside the Tevinter Imperium.  The way he was treated was more a regional thing, not really a mage thing. His prejudice would make more sense if it was directed at Tevinters rather than mages in general.  But even then, DAI Dorian proves that not all Tevinters are monsters.  But I agree, it was fun to romance him as a mage.  I never romance him as a non-mage.  But you had to be VERY patient with that romance and willing to have a boyfriend that wouldn't move in with you. 

In a way, I'm glad that they haven't yet made Varric a romance option because that means it will be way easier to bring his butt back for the 4th game if they want to.  He has no romantic attachments from the previous titles that would make that awkward.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 02, 2019, 06:08:03 pm
Would deffinitely love it if Fenris came back in DA4 :D !

Yes it would!  His voice actor is great.  And it would be nice to see him outside of DA2's stylized "a story is being told" body models.  They looked OK for the humans even though the waste was a bit long and shoulders a bit broad, but the elves' bodies looked ridiculous.  Like stick figures and they all had noses that made me think of what a klingon's (Next Generation era) nose would look like if it ever got ironed out. 

I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Fenris was hard to romance, so its awesome that you carried on an accidental romance with him.  Anders on the other hand falls in love with you if you do one flirt, it seems.  lol 

I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Varric is the man. He's funny, clever, and best of all: not annoying while still having a presence. Oh dang was romancing Anders as femHawke doable, too? Ouch, wasn't he SO clingy?!?! He was like all pouty and whiny and just the worst.

As for Fenris' "mages are bad" talks, it was fun flirting with him as a mage. XD

I can understand why Fenris had an aversion to mages.  Magisters tortured him and turned his sister against himm he had serious PTSD.  That being said, he should have toned it down when it came to mages outside the Tevinter Imperium.  The way he was treated was more a regional thing, not really a mage thing. His prejudice would make more sense if it was directed at Tevinters rather than mages in general.  But even then, DAI Dorian proves that not all Tevinters are monsters.  But I agree, it was fun to romance him as a mage.  I never romance him as a non-mage.  But you had to be VERY patient with that romance and willing to have a boyfriend that wouldn't move in with you. 

In a way, I'm glad that they haven't yet made Varric a romance option because that means it will be way easier to bring his butt back for the 4th game if they want to.  He has no romantic attachments from the previous titles that would make that awkward.

Yeah, he had kind of a "universal oppression" mindset when it came to mages vs non-mages. As though mages are always the oppressors or something, when in fact mages live a miserable existence in Dragon Age-Westeros (I can't remember the name of the actual land, but you get what I mean). XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 02, 2019, 06:22:15 pm
Would deffinitely love it if Fenris came back in DA4 :D !

Yes it would!  His voice actor is great.  And it would be nice to see him outside of DA2's stylized "a story is being told" body models.  They looked OK for the humans even though the waste was a bit long and shoulders a bit broad, but the elves' bodies looked ridiculous.  Like stick figures and they all had noses that made me think of what a klingon's (Next Generation era) nose would look like if it ever got ironed out. 

I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Fenris was hard to romance, so its awesome that you carried on an accidental romance with him.  Anders on the other hand falls in love with you if you do one flirt, it seems.  lol 

I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Varric is the man. He's funny, clever, and best of all: not annoying while still having a presence. Oh dang was romancing Anders as femHawke doable, too? Ouch, wasn't he SO clingy?!?! He was like all pouty and whiny and just the worst.

As for Fenris' "mages are bad" talks, it was fun flirting with him as a mage. XD

I can understand why Fenris had an aversion to mages.  Magisters tortured him and turned his sister against himm he had serious PTSD.  That being said, he should have toned it down when it came to mages outside the Tevinter Imperium.  The way he was treated was more a regional thing, not really a mage thing. His prejudice would make more sense if it was directed at Tevinters rather than mages in general.  But even then, DAI Dorian proves that not all Tevinters are monsters.  But I agree, it was fun to romance him as a mage.  I never romance him as a non-mage.  But you had to be VERY patient with that romance and willing to have a boyfriend that wouldn't move in with you. 

In a way, I'm glad that they haven't yet made Varric a romance option because that means it will be way easier to bring his butt back for the 4th game if they want to.  He has no romantic attachments from the previous titles that would make that awkward.

Yeah, he had kind of a "universal oppression" mindset when it came to mages vs non-mages. As though mages are always the oppressors or something, when in fact mages live a miserable existence in Dragon Age-Westeros (I can't remember the name of the actual land, but you get what I mean). XD

That I do, and he could see with his own eyes that mages outside of the Imperium had it nearly as bad as he had it. The mages of the Qunari, the Saarebas, had it even worse than he did.  Horns sawn off, mouths sewn shut with just enough room to maybe suck some liquidy food in, chains on their bodies.  Ugh. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 02, 2019, 06:39:49 pm
Would deffinitely love it if Fenris came back in DA4 :D !

Yes it would!  His voice actor is great.  And it would be nice to see him outside of DA2's stylized "a story is being told" body models.  They looked OK for the humans even though the waste was a bit long and shoulders a bit broad, but the elves' bodies looked ridiculous.  Like stick figures and they all had noses that made me think of what a klingon's (Next Generation era) nose would look like if it ever got ironed out. 

I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Fenris was hard to romance, so its awesome that you carried on an accidental romance with him.  Anders on the other hand falls in love with you if you do one flirt, it seems.  lol 

I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Varric is the man. He's funny, clever, and best of all: not annoying while still having a presence. Oh dang was romancing Anders as femHawke doable, too? Ouch, wasn't he SO clingy?!?! He was like all pouty and whiny and just the worst.

As for Fenris' "mages are bad" talks, it was fun flirting with him as a mage. XD

I can understand why Fenris had an aversion to mages.  Magisters tortured him and turned his sister against himm he had serious PTSD.  That being said, he should have toned it down when it came to mages outside the Tevinter Imperium.  The way he was treated was more a regional thing, not really a mage thing. His prejudice would make more sense if it was directed at Tevinters rather than mages in general.  But even then, DAI Dorian proves that not all Tevinters are monsters.  But I agree, it was fun to romance him as a mage.  I never romance him as a non-mage.  But you had to be VERY patient with that romance and willing to have a boyfriend that wouldn't move in with you. 

In a way, I'm glad that they haven't yet made Varric a romance option because that means it will be way easier to bring his butt back for the 4th game if they want to.  He has no romantic attachments from the previous titles that would make that awkward.

Yeah, he had kind of a "universal oppression" mindset when it came to mages vs non-mages. As though mages are always the oppressors or something, when in fact mages live a miserable existence in Dragon Age-Westeros (I can't remember the name of the actual land, but you get what I mean). XD

That I do, and he could see with his own eyes that mages outside of the Imperium had it nearly as bad as he had it. The mages of the Qunari, the Saarebas, had it even worse than he did.  Horns sawn off, mouths sewn shut with just enough room to maybe suck some liquidy food in, chains on their bodies.  Ugh.

I thought you were going to go somewhere else with what they could suck in their BDSM gear. XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on June 02, 2019, 09:17:23 pm
I'm still mad, Varric wasn't a romance option, but Isabella was pretty cool in DA2, especially with femHawke.
I first loved Anders, because he looked like a young Charles Dance, but he is a bit clingy, isn't he? I romanced Fenris accidently with my mage Hawke and it was surprisingly good. I'm not a huge Fenris fan, because let's face it, his 'mages are bad' sermons are a bit repetative and boring and he looks like an anime character (I don't like anime style much in 90 % of the cases).
Still, Varric is the best, no competition there.

Varric is the man. He's funny, clever, and best of all: not annoying while still having a presence. Oh dang was romancing Anders as femHawke doable, too? Ouch, wasn't he SO clingy?!?! He was like all pouty and whiny and just the worst.

As for Fenris' "mages are bad" talks, it was fun flirting with him as a mage. XD

Varric is one of my favorite game npcs from all games, Bloodlines included. Wouldn't it be fun, if he and Gary could have a conversation? Now that I thought of it, I want this to happen so badly.
And yeah, Anders was clingy.
Isabella is a great romance though. Never would have thought that, but she is really great to have around
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 03, 2019, 12:26:17 am
I thought you were going to go somewhere else with what they could suck in their BDSM gear. XD

LOL oh my.  I would feel sorry for any guy that could fit in a small opening like that.  LOL

(https://media.giphy.com/media/kHIpAFcGfmA7pQYKxB/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 04, 2019, 12:12:33 am
Yes it would!  His voice actor is great.  And it would be nice to see him outside of DA2's stylized "a story is being told" body models.  They looked OK for the humans even though the waist was a bit long and shoulders a bit broad, but the elves' bodies looked ridiculous.  Like stick figures and they all had noses that made me think of what a klingon's (Next Generation era) nose would look like if it ever got ironed out.

I don't know. I have a lot of issues with how the elves were portrayed back in DAI as just "Humans with pointy ears". I think DA2 tried to give elves a different appearence, much like The Elder Scrolls already does:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/8/81/SepLnUp_Dunmer_b4%26d4.png/revision/latest?cb=20111213112849&path-prefix=es)

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/8/8c/SepLnUp_Altmer_b1%26c1.png/revision/latest?cb=20120124104134)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 04, 2019, 06:31:35 am
This is the Bloodlines 2 links topic and I just realized that no one ever posted Paradox's Malkavian discussion OR fan/gamer-cutie-pie Outstar's Malkavian video, so here ya go...



Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 04, 2019, 08:39:49 am
Yes it would!  His voice actor is great.  And it would be nice to see him outside of DA2's stylized "a story is being told" body models.  They looked OK for the humans even though the waist was a bit long and shoulders a bit broad, but the elves' bodies looked ridiculous.  Like stick figures and they all had noses that made me think of what a klingon's (Next Generation era) nose would look like if it ever got ironed out.

I don't know. I have a lot of issues with how the elves were portrayed back in DAI as just "Humans with pointy ears". I think DA2 tried to give elves a different appearence, much like The Elder Scrolls already does:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/8/81/SepLnUp_Dunmer_b4%26d4.png/revision/latest?cb=20111213112849&path-prefix=es)

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/8/8c/SepLnUp_Altmer_b1%26c1.png/revision/latest?cb=20120124104134)

I don't have a problem with the "slightly smaller humans with pointy ears" portrayal at all, because that kind of is what elves are supposed to be, dating back to the original real life folklore when they became humanoid beings and no longer just spirits.  The elves of Skyrim look like they would frighten small children in real life.  lol  I always do my best to mod that the heck out.  lol  They remind me too much of their portrayal in Morrowind.  That too is always modded out.  When modding the bumpy pointy aspects of the faces out, I try to keep to the lore about their skin and eyes, but that's it.  Nothing in the written lore states that they are supposed to resemble Next Generation Klingons BEFORE the nose ironing.  I like my elves to be sexy and f*ckable looking, personally.  On Nirn elves, orcs and humans all ultimately trace their lineage back to the same race of original earthly beings, after all.  The Ehlnofey.  To this day these races can interbreed.  They are deeply related species.

This is the Bloodlines 2 links topic and I just realized that no one ever posted Paradox's Malkavian discussion OR fan/gamer-cutie-pie Outstar's Malkavian video, so here ya go...





Thanks DarkProphet, I will watch these! 

Edit 1.  Damn, Brian is a silver fox.  Its weird hearing that voice come out of a real human being rather than the Newscaster on my in-game cathode-ray tube television set telling me about the Elizabeth Dane or weird creatures washing up on shore.  Apparently the last time I watched him on video I was too absorbed in my excitement about the sequel to pay attention to the details of his looks and voice.  lol

Edit 2.  Looks like that Brian has been really paying attention to what has been being said in the community all these years.  If the Malkavians are changed I get the impression it won't be just because of "sensitivity" but will also be because of everyone yelling "Fish Malks suck!!" all these years. 

Edit 3.  Ha ha "Maybe this is news to you!" 

Edit 4.  Poor Brian, he is just sitting there watching them gab back and forth.  lol

Edit 5.  ROFL "Sewer DLC".

Edit 6. "Yoon Tenth!"  lol  Ah Nords. <3 I love listening to the way people from different regions speak English.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on June 04, 2019, 01:11:20 pm
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 04, 2019, 02:35:44 pm
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt

Yeah, and in *written* TES lore, Elves are supposed to be beautiful, so I don't know what Bethesda was thinking with this Skyrim design. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Happydeathclaw on June 04, 2019, 06:49:55 pm
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt

Yeah, and in *written* TES lore, Elves are supposed to be beautiful, so I don't know what Bethesda was thinking with this Skyrim design.

"Bethesda" and "thinking"... that's something incompatible
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 04, 2019, 10:40:55 pm
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt

Yeah, and in *written* TES lore, Elves are supposed to be beautiful, so I don't know what Bethesda was thinking with this Skyrim design.

"Bethesda" and "thinking"... that's something incompatible

Heresy, I loved me some Prey 2017!

And DarkZephyr, Brian is a cool-lookin' dude. I don't understand the gloves unless they're to make him look interesting or to keep his hands toasty (or both), but I kinda like 'em. His hair looks quite cool.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 04, 2019, 10:48:21 pm
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt

Yeah, and in *written* TES lore, Elves are supposed to be beautiful, so I don't know what Bethesda was thinking with this Skyrim design.

"Bethesda" and "thinking"... that's something incompatible

Heresy, I loved me some Prey 2017!

And DarkZephyr, Brian is a cool-lookin' dude. I don't understand the gloves unless they're to make him look interesting or to keep his hands toasty (or both), but I kinda like 'em. His hair looks quite cool.

Maybe he's hiding Nosferatu claws! 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 04, 2019, 11:45:57 pm
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt

Yeah, and in *written* TES lore, Elves are supposed to be beautiful, so I don't know what Bethesda was thinking with this Skyrim design.

"Bethesda" and "thinking"... that's something incompatible

Heresy, I loved me some Prey 2017!

And DarkZephyr, Brian is a cool-lookin' dude. I don't understand the gloves unless they're to make him look interesting or to keep his hands toasty (or both), but I kinda like 'em. His hair looks quite cool.

Maybe he's hiding Nosferatu claws!

Or Gangrel fur on his hands. Or just fur on his hands from the fapping urban legends.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 04, 2019, 11:57:49 pm
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt

Yeah, and in *written* TES lore, Elves are supposed to be beautiful, so I don't know what Bethesda was thinking with this Skyrim design.

"Bethesda" and "thinking"... that's something incompatible

Heresy, I loved me some Prey 2017!

And DarkZephyr, Brian is a cool-lookin' dude. I don't understand the gloves unless they're to make him look interesting or to keep his hands toasty (or both), but I kinda like 'em. His hair looks quite cool.

Maybe he's hiding Nosferatu claws!

Or Gangrel fur on his hands. Or just fur on his hands from the fapping urban legends.

Ah but he's not blind so if its fur, its probably Gangrel fur.  Besides, he already knows what to do when he has that urge.  He's Romero after all. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 05, 2019, 12:04:02 am
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt

Yeah, and in *written* TES lore, Elves are supposed to be beautiful, so I don't know what Bethesda was thinking with this Skyrim design.

"Bethesda" and "thinking"... that's something incompatible

Heresy, I loved me some Prey 2017!

And DarkZephyr, Brian is a cool-lookin' dude. I don't understand the gloves unless they're to make him look interesting or to keep his hands toasty (or both), but I kinda like 'em. His hair looks quite cool.

Maybe he's hiding Nosferatu claws!

Or Gangrel fur on his hands. Or just fur on his hands from the fapping urban legends.

Ah but he's not blind so if its fur, its probably Gangrel fur.  Besides, he already knows what to do when he has that urge.  He's Romero after all.

Good point! Here's hoping a does a fair number of minor henchmen/random NPC voices throughout the game. His voice is super recognizable from what I'd witnessed...though I think I heard that he was one of the Asian old fellas, in which case I had NO idea it was him.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 05, 2019, 12:34:19 am
I love Outstars Malkavian video (but then, I love all her videos). I hope, she covers the other clans too. Can't wait for her take on Tzimisce.

ABout the Skyrim  elves: I think, they look like very longterm drug addicts, not healthy and very gaunt

Yeah, and in *written* TES lore, Elves are supposed to be beautiful, so I don't know what Bethesda was thinking with this Skyrim design.

"Bethesda" and "thinking"... that's something incompatible

Heresy, I loved me some Prey 2017!

And DarkZephyr, Brian is a cool-lookin' dude. I don't understand the gloves unless they're to make him look interesting or to keep his hands toasty (or both), but I kinda like 'em. His hair looks quite cool.

Maybe he's hiding Nosferatu claws!

Or Gangrel fur on his hands. Or just fur on his hands from the fapping urban legends.

Ah but he's not blind so if its fur, its probably Gangrel fur.  Besides, he already knows what to do when he has that urge.  He's Romero after all.

Good point! Here's hoping a does a fair number of minor henchmen/random NPC voices throughout the game. His voice is super recognizable from what I'd witnessed...though I think I heard that he was one of the Asian old fellas, in which case I had NO idea it was him.

And here's to hoping this time at least one of his characters bats for both teams.  :D  And by that I don't mean the Anarchs and Camarilla.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 05, 2019, 12:39:51 am
I don't have a problem with the "slightly smaller humans with pointy ears" portrayal at all, because that kind of is what elves are supposed to be, dating back to the original real life folklore when they became humanoid beings and no longer just spirits.  The elves of Skyrim look like they would frighten small children in real life.  lol  I always do my best to mod that the heck out.  lol  They remind me too much of their portrayal in Morrowind.  That too is always modded out.  When modding the bumpy pointy aspects of the faces out, I try to keep to the lore about their skin and eyes, but that's it.  Nothing in the written lore states that they are supposed to resemble Next Generation Klingons BEFORE the nose ironing.  I like my elves to be sexy and f*ckable looking, personally.  On Nirn elves, orcs and humans all ultimately trace their lineage back to the same race of original earthly beings, after all.  The Ehlnofey.  To this day these races can interbreed.  They are deeply related species.

It depends on what source you're looking for but what is really the point of having elves if their only functional difference is just... ears xD ?

I mean, it's fine that they look different and alien. That they're sort-of-human-but-not-quite-there.

It also highlights a problem with a lot of people that like modern fantasy CRPG's: They want everyone to look beautiful... and that's just silly.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 05, 2019, 01:23:20 am
I don't have a problem with the "slightly smaller humans with pointy ears" portrayal at all, because that kind of is what elves are supposed to be, dating back to the original real life folklore when they became humanoid beings and no longer just spirits.  The elves of Skyrim look like they would frighten small children in real life.  lol  I always do my best to mod that the heck out.  lol  They remind me too much of their portrayal in Morrowind.  That too is always modded out.  When modding the bumpy pointy aspects of the faces out, I try to keep to the lore about their skin and eyes, but that's it.  Nothing in the written lore states that they are supposed to resemble Next Generation Klingons BEFORE the nose ironing.  I like my elves to be sexy and f*ckable looking, personally.  On Nirn elves, orcs and humans all ultimately trace their lineage back to the same race of original earthly beings, after all.  The Ehlnofey.  To this day these races can interbreed.  They are deeply related species.

It depends on what source you're looking for but what is really the point of having elves if their only functional difference is just... ears xD ?

I mean, it's fine that they look different and alien. That they're sort-of-human-but-not-quite-there.

It also highlights a problem with a lot of people that like modern fantasy CRPG's: They want everyone to look beautiful... and that's just silly.

You may as well say that about all portrayals of elves until recent ones.  Elves have always been portrayed as beautiful and human-like til fairly recently.  Elves as more than toadstool sized wingless fairies was introduced by Tolkien and he made them fullsized, pointy eared, long-lived beautiful humanoids, this is not "modern day" stuff, this is 65 years worth of well loved High Fantasy history.  And in my opinion, they don't have to have dog sh*t faces to be different and alien.  We already have other races like that.  Dog sh*t faced Elves is actually the modern day phenomenon.  I'm not going to call a preference for that kind of thing "silly" or a "problem" though because I think we all have a right to our own preferences and opinions and all our our personal tastes are valid for ourselves.  People having preferences isn't a "problem" in my opinion.  Plus I am not hurting a soul by modding the dog sh*t faces out of the elves in my game. 

I make absolutely NO apologies for preferring the 65 year old quite traditional and not at all "new" or "modern" approach to Fantasy elves. 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/z/N/A/7zNAA/Elves-Legolas-Arwen-Galadriel-Elrdon-Thandruil_l.jpg)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 05, 2019, 03:24:00 am
I make absolutely NO apologies for preferring the 65 year old quite traditional and not at all "new" or "modern" approach to Fantasy elves. 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/z/N/A/7zNAA/Elves-Legolas-Arwen-Galadriel-Elrdon-Thandruil_l.jpg)

First, I like that you bring up those portrayals, because the idea behind those designs was to at least try to separate the elves from what humans and dwarfs regularly look like. NO ONE that was human in the LOTR trilogy looked like that, because the whole point about making the elves alien and strange was to make them SO BEAUTIFUL that they might as well be something completely different. Sure, they're pretty, but you can't think of those examples as anything remotely similar to this:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/eldragonverde/images/b/b3/Boromir.png/revision/latest?cb=20121221142047&path-prefix=es) (https://a1cf74336522e87f135f-2f21ace9a6cf0052456644b80fa06d4f.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/images/characters/p-the-lord-of-the-rings-john-rhys-davies.jpg) (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/8f/f0/f38ff01fde4f248cba48524e929f59a1.jpg)

Second of all... what do you mean by "dog sh*t" ? You mean like this ?

(https://monovicioso.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/merrill-da2.png)

I don't think it's a modern approach and it's not a particularly bad one either. Not everyone can be aesthetically beautiful because such a thing is not real in any way, shape or form when it comes to actual reality. It's a silly notion to pretend that elves or humans or any other kind of creature should obligatorily be an object of desire and admiration; if the former was the case, then what would have Jack from BL1 looked like ? What would Bertram Tung ? What would any character if the "correct" standard was for beauty to be prioritized ? And who's to say many of the elves from DA2 weren't beautiful as Good old Merrill was ? Open thy mind, people !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 05, 2019, 07:03:05 am
I make absolutely NO apologies for preferring the 65 year old quite traditional and not at all "new" or "modern" approach to Fantasy elves. 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/z/N/A/7zNAA/Elves-Legolas-Arwen-Galadriel-Elrdon-Thandruil_l.jpg)

First, I like that you bring up those portrayals, because the idea behind those designs was to at least try to separate the elves from what humans and dwarfs regularly look like. NO ONE that was human in the LOTR trilogy looked like that, because the whole point about making the elves alien and strange was to make them SO BEAUTIFUL that they might as well be something completely different. Sure, they're pretty, but you can't think of those examples as anything remotely similar to this:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/eldragonverde/images/b/b3/Boromir.png/revision/latest?cb=20121221142047&path-prefix=es) (https://a1cf74336522e87f135f-2f21ace9a6cf0052456644b80fa06d4f.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/images/characters/p-the-lord-of-the-rings-john-rhys-davies.jpg) (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/8f/f0/f38ff01fde4f248cba48524e929f59a1.jpg)

Second of all... what do you mean by "dog sh*t" ? You mean like this ?

(https://monovicioso.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/merrill-da2.png)

I don't think it's a modern approach and it's not a particularly bad one either. Not everyone can be aesthetically beautiful because such a thing is not real in any way, shape or form when it comes to actual reality. It's a silly notion to pretend that elves or humans or any other kind of creature should obligatorily be an object of desire and admiration; if the former was the case, then what would have Jack from BL1 looked like ? What would Bertram Tung ? What would any character if the "correct" standard was for beauty to be prioritized ? And who's to say many of the elves from DA2 weren't beautiful as Good old Merrill was ? Open thy mind, people !

I didn't find Merill to be all that attractive whatsoever (though Fenris was), but no, I wasn't referencing the elves of Dragon Age 2 (DA elves look 100% better in Dragon Age Inquisition, in my opinion), I was referencing the elves of Skyrim.

You have your reasons for feeling the way that you do.  I have my reasons for feeling the way that I do.  I don't understand why you feel the need to call those who see it differently than yourself "silly" or to imply that we are "closed minded". 

And your comment about their beauty making them alien proves my point.  They don't have to be ugly to be alien.  Thank you for that, that is exactly what I was saying. 

I don't want every single race in my RPGs to be beautiful, nor do I need every member of the beautiful races to be beautiful nor have I stated anything of the kind.  But I prefer it when elves are among the pretty races.  ESPECIALLY when the lore CLAIMS they are beautiful, like it does in both Elder Scrolls lore AND Dragon Age lore. That's just how I feel.  Again, I won't apologize for that. 

As for your comparisons of LOTR elves with the other LOTR races, let me just say that I thought several of the humans in the series were gorgeous. 

What's so "not beautiful" about them?  The fact that they have beards?  That doesn't make them "not beautiful" in my eyes, but if you DID shave them and slap pointy ears on them, they would fit right in with the elves, as far as I am concerned.
(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/z/P/q/7zPqb/image.jpg)(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/z/P/p/7zPpL/Faramir-faramir-9716911-1024-768_l.jpg)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 05, 2019, 07:33:07 am
I didn't find Merill to be all that attractive whatsoever (though Fenris was), but no, I wasn't referencing the elves of Dragon Age 2 (DA elves look 100% better in Dragon Age Inquisition, in my opinion), I was referencing the elves of Skyrim. You have your reasons for feeling the way that you do.  I have my reasons for feeling the way that I do.  I don't understand why you feel the need to call those who see it differently than yourself "silly" or to imply that we are "closed minded".

Well... you did refer to the DA2 elf design as "dog sh*t"... xD

I apologize if my words came off as offensive in any way. I just find it a bit exaggerated when people say the elves in Dragon Age 2 looked like "dog sh*t" when it was a clear effort from the designers to create something more original and authentic than what we usually see, and that earns some merit to me because if it was up to a lot of people (maybe not you, but others) then every videogame character would look like a supermodel.

And your comment about their beauty making them alien proves my point.  They don't have to be ugly to be alien.  Thank you for that, that is exactly what I was saying.

Sure but just because somebody chooses to do something different doesn't mean it's... doggy poo !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 05, 2019, 07:38:09 am
I make absolutely NO apologies for preferring the 65 year old quite traditional and not at all "new" or "modern" approach to Fantasy elves. 

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/z/N/A/7zNAA/Elves-Legolas-Arwen-Galadriel-Elrdon-Thandruil_l.jpg)

First, I like that you bring up those portrayals, because the idea behind those designs was to at least try to separate the elves from what humans and dwarfs regularly look like. NO ONE that was human in the LOTR trilogy looked like that, because the whole point about making the elves alien and strange was to make them SO BEAUTIFUL that they might as well be something completely different. Sure, they're pretty, but you can't think of those examples as anything remotely similar to this:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/eldragonverde/images/b/b3/Boromir.png/revision/latest?cb=20121221142047&path-prefix=es) (https://a1cf74336522e87f135f-2f21ace9a6cf0052456644b80fa06d4f.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/images/characters/p-the-lord-of-the-rings-john-rhys-davies.jpg) (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/8f/f0/f38ff01fde4f248cba48524e929f59a1.jpg)

Second of all... what do you mean by "dog sh*t" ? You mean like this ?

(https://monovicioso.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/merrill-da2.png)

I don't think it's a modern approach and it's not a particularly bad one either. Not everyone can be aesthetically beautiful because such a thing is not real in any way, shape or form when it comes to actual reality. It's a silly notion to pretend that elves or humans or any other kind of creature should obligatorily be an object of desire and admiration; if the former was the case, then what would have Jack from BL1 looked like ? What would Bertram Tung ? What would any character if the "correct" standard was for beauty to be prioritized ? And who's to say many of the elves from DA2 weren't beautiful as Good old Merrill was ? Open thy mind, people !

I didn't find Merill to be all that attractive whatsoever (though Fenris was), but no, I wasn't referencing the elves of Dragon Age 2 (DA elves look 100% better in Dragon Age Inquisition, in my opinion), I was referencing the elves of Skyrim.

You have your reasons for feeling the way that you do.  I have my reasons for feeling the way that I do.  I don't understand why you feel the need to call those who see it differently than yourself "silly" or to imply that we are "closed minded". 

And your comment about their beauty making them alien proves my point.  They don't have to be ugly to be alien.  Thank you for that, that is exactly what I was saying. 

I don't want every single race in my RPGs to be beautiful, nor do I need every member of the beautiful races to be beautiful nor have I stated anything of the kind.  But I prefer it when elves are among the pretty races.  ESPECIALLY when the lore CLAIMS they are beautiful, like it does in both Elder Scrolls lore AND Dragon Age lore. That's just how I feel.  Again, I won't apologize for that. 

As for your comparisons of LOTR elves with the other LOTR races, let me just say that I thought several of the humans in the series were gorgeous. 

What's so "not beautiful" about them?  The fact that they have beards?  That doesn't make them "not beautiful" in my eyes, but if you DID shave them and slap pointy ears on them, they would fit right in with the elves, as far as I am concerned.
(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/z/P/q/7zPqb/image.jpg)(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/z/P/p/7zPpL/Faramir-faramir-9716911-1024-768_l.jpg)

To be fair, "teh gayness" might've interfered with your appreciation of Merrill's looks. I liked her accent and romanced her because she wasn't a whore, but she was kinda weird and I didn't like her a ton. Gimme some Morrigan. Shady, cougar-y, cool accent, and she wants muh destiny babies.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 05, 2019, 07:46:27 am
Can we please stay on topic, this thread is about Bloodlines 2 links and not about other games or movies. Please start a new thread somewhere else for this!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 05, 2019, 08:15:34 am
Can we please stay on topic, this thread is about Bloodlines 2 links and not about other games or movies. Please start a new thread somewhere else for this!

I beg your pardon, Wesp.  Sorry about that.  If you don't mind, I will place a link to a thread I started in the off topic section of the forums to finish this conversation. 

Here you go, Highway and DarkProphet, if you want to finish the conversation:  https://forums.planetvampire.com/off-topic/fantasy-lore/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 06, 2019, 01:03:55 am
Can we please stay on topic, this thread is about Bloodlines 2 links and not about other games or movies. Please start a new thread somewhere else for this!

Alrighty then...

... so what else is new with this fucking game ? Got no clans anymore !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 06, 2019, 08:58:24 am
Alrighty then...

... so what else is new with this fucking game ? Got no clans anymore !
Maybe you could wait for the first real gameplay!

"We know you're all starving for more #Bloodlines2 content and we may be able to sate your thirst, even if only for a little while...
Catch us on June 10th, The PC Gaming Show at E3. 🦇"
https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1136301656595980289
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 07, 2019, 03:29:01 am
Alrighty then...

... so what else is new with this fucking game ? Got no clans anymore !
Maybe you could wait for the first real gameplay!

"We know you're all starving for more #Bloodlines2 content and we may be able to sate your thirst, even if only for a little while...
Catch us on June 10th, The PC Gaming Show at E3. 🦇"
https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1136301656595980289

Anyone going to the Paradox Convention in October ? Is it even in October ? There's going to be a demo there...

... if only we could get a spy to give us the scoop ! Who volunteers ?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 07, 2019, 07:01:52 am
Alrighty then...

... so what else is new with this fucking game ? Got no clans anymore !
Maybe you could wait for the first real gameplay!

"We know you're all starving for more #Bloodlines2 content and we may be able to sate your thirst, even if only for a little while...
Catch us on June 10th, The PC Gaming Show at E3. 🦇"
https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1136301656595980289

I've been chomping at the bit this week, on edge due to no weekly video about stuff. >_<  Hopefully Outstar will save the day by putting out a video being incredibly cute and saying lots of stuff about VtM that I mostly already know but have never heard a super-nice Euro girl saying the words in a string before.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 07, 2019, 06:14:11 pm
Alrighty then...

... so what else is new with this fucking game ? Got no clans anymore !
Maybe you could wait for the first real gameplay!

"We know you're all starving for more #Bloodlines2 content and we may be able to sate your thirst, even if only for a little while...
Catch us on June 10th, The PC Gaming Show at E3. 🦇"
https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1136301656595980289

I've been chomping at the bit this week, on edge due to no weekly video about stuff. >_<  Hopefully Outstar will save the day by putting out a video being incredibly cute and saying lots of stuff about VtM that I mostly already know but have never heard a super-nice Euro girl saying the words in a string before.

I love her videos, but I don't think I have the same reaction to them as yourself.  lol
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 07, 2019, 11:52:52 pm
Alrighty then...

... so what else is new with this fucking game ? Got no clans anymore !
Maybe you could wait for the first real gameplay!

"We know you're all starving for more #Bloodlines2 content and we may be able to sate your thirst, even if only for a little while...
Catch us on June 10th, The PC Gaming Show at E3. 🦇"
https://twitter.com/VtM_Bloodlines/status/1136301656595980289

I've been chomping at the bit this week, on edge due to no weekly video about stuff. >_<  Hopefully Outstar will save the day by putting out a video being incredibly cute and saying lots of stuff about VtM that I mostly already know but have never heard a super-nice Euro girl saying the words in a string before.

I love her videos, but I don't think I have the same reaction to them as yourself.  lol

I wonder why. XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 08, 2019, 12:25:01 am
I wonder why. XD

WELL if she looked more like this I might change my tune... LOL

(https://media.giphy.com/media/PqBXHsHbEbkha/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 08, 2019, 02:33:54 am
I've been chomping at the bit this week, on edge due to no weekly video about stuff. >_<  Hopefully Outstar will save the day by putting out a video being incredibly cute and saying lots of stuff about VtM that I mostly already know but have never heard a super-nice Euro girl saying the words in a string before.

It's quite the thing that she looks so adorable when talking about bloodsucking parasites... huh...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 08, 2019, 04:21:22 am
I've been chomping at the bit this week, on edge due to no weekly video about stuff. >_<  Hopefully Outstar will save the day by putting out a video being incredibly cute and saying lots of stuff about VtM that I mostly already know but have never heard a super-nice Euro girl saying the words in a string before.

It's quite the thing that she looks so adorable when talking about bloodsucking parasites... huh...

Well, she's excited about what she's talking about, so that helps!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 10, 2019, 03:03:33 pm
A quickly reminder that Bloodlines 2 will be shown at the PC Gaming Show in 3 Hours.
This is hardly any news but in 8 hours Bloodlines 2 is also featured in Inside Xbox.



https://twitter.com/Xbox/status/1138068325336883200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1138068325336883200&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231138068325336883200

It doesn´t have to mean anything but i think its cool that Bloodlines 2 is listed after Gears 5 as the second game.

Edit: And here the link to Livestream for PC Gamer PC Caming Show which starts in 3 hours.



Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 10, 2019, 06:10:39 pm


Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: YamiRaziel on June 10, 2019, 06:56:57 pm
Looks fucking amazing!

I never pre-order, but I would gladly get a physical collectors, just because this game needs support... and it looks fantastic! For BL1's sake!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 10, 2019, 08:06:54 pm
Looks fucking amazing!

I never pre-order, but I would gladly get a physical collectors, just because this game needs support... and it looks fantastic! For BL1's sake!
Its looks awesome and i really want to play this but it could use in some areas more polishing.

I know this sounds crazy but i wish that they would delay Bloodlines 2 to Summer 2020. Bloodlines 2 really shouldn´t be in crowd field with Cyperpunk, Final Fantasy 7 and a lot more games which i already forget are also releasing in Spring 2020.

By the way the female Toreador is voiced by Jo Wyatt (Femhawke in Dragon Age 2 and of course Ciri in Witcher 3):
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0943557/

Excellent choice.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: YamiRaziel on June 10, 2019, 08:50:38 pm
It shouldn't compete with Dying Light 2 as well.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 10, 2019, 10:18:56 pm
Its looks awesome and i really want to play this but it could use in some areas more polishing.

A) It probably WILL get more polishing otherwise it would be getting released this year.
B) You say that based on less than 5 minutes of gameplay footage?  I think it looks fucking AWESOME.  Like my excitement for this game just kicked up 10 levels after watching the gameplay footage. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 10, 2019, 11:15:26 pm
Its looks awesome and i really want to play this but it could use in some areas more polishing.

A) It probably WILL get more polishing otherwise it would be getting released this year.
B) You say that based on less than 5 minutes of gameplay footage?  I think it looks fucking AWESOME.  Like my excitement for this game just kicked up 10 levels after watching the gameplay footage.

I need a cold shower after watching that trailer. <3
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 10, 2019, 11:31:54 pm
Its looks awesome and i really want to play this but it could use in some areas more polishing.

A) It probably WILL get more polishing otherwise it would be getting released this year.
B) You say that based on less than 5 minutes of gameplay footage?  I think it looks fucking AWESOME.  Like my excitement for this game just kicked up 10 levels after watching the gameplay footage.

I need a cold shower after watching that trailer. <3

So basically the end of this video is you, but with Bloodlines 2 instead of Skyrim, I take it?  :D

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 11, 2019, 12:22:11 am
Its looks awesome and i really want to play this but it could use in some areas more polishing.

A) It probably WILL get more polishing otherwise it would be getting released this year.
B) You say that based on less than 5 minutes of gameplay footage?  I think it looks fucking AWESOME.  Like my excitement for this game just kicked up 10 levels after watching the gameplay footage.

I need a cold shower after watching that trailer. <3

So basically the end of this video is you, but with Bloodlines 2 instead of Skyrim, I take it?  :D



I need better security in my apartment, because it's obvious someone is spying on me with hidden cameras during my "special time." :O
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 11, 2019, 02:30:33 am
Its looks awesome and i really want to play this but it could use in some areas more polishing.

A) It probably WILL get more polishing otherwise it would be getting released this year.
B) You say that based on less than 5 minutes of gameplay footage?  I think it looks fucking AWESOME.  Like my excitement for this game just kicked up 10 levels after watching the gameplay footage.

I need a cold shower after watching that trailer. <3

So basically the end of this video is you, but with Bloodlines 2 instead of Skyrim, I take it?  :D



I need better security in my apartment, because it's obvious someone is spying on me with hidden cameras during my "special time." :O

Its probably Bertram Tung. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 11, 2019, 02:34:26 am
Its probably Bertram Tung.

Oh, well in that case...he and Knox can watch. ;D
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 11, 2019, 04:31:25 am
Its probably Bertram Tung.

Oh, well in that case...he and Knox can watch. ;D

Knox is grateful!
(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/B/t/R/7BtRb/1504968805945.jpg) 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on June 11, 2019, 05:30:44 am
Its looks awesome and i really want to play this but it could use in some areas more polishing.

A) It probably WILL get more polishing otherwise it would be getting released this year.
B) You say that based on less than 5 minutes of gameplay footage?  I think it looks fucking AWESOME.  Like my excitement for this game just kicked up 10 levels after watching the gameplay footage.

I need a cold shower after watching that trailer. <3

So basically the end of this video is you, but with Bloodlines 2 instead of Skyrim, I take it?  :D



I need better security in my apartment, because it's obvious someone is spying on me with hidden cameras during my "special time." :O

Its probably Bertram Tung.

It Mitnick has installed some more cameras ;)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 11, 2019, 08:24:23 am
So in the gameplay trailer, did any of y'all get hot and bothered watching that shotgun-on-human action? I know I did. <3
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 11, 2019, 09:53:04 am
So in the gameplay trailer, did any of y'all get hot and bothered watching that shotgun-on-human action? I know I did. <3

I kinda liked this part: 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/H3MarIVrDneUZgAuQc/giphy.gif)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/26FLdmIp6wJr91JAI/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 06:58:38 pm
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 11, 2019, 07:49:17 pm
Why is Cara listed there as "Lead Narrative Designer" and Brian only as "Narrative Designer"? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Also while Brian seems to be not much of a public speaker person, it annoys me that Cara is talking first and is more in the foreground in many of the interviews. I hope she doesn't influence the game too much and Brian can still create funny characters and stories without control!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 11, 2019, 08:51:00 pm
So in the gameplay trailer, did any of y'all get hot and bothered watching that shotgun-on-human action? I know I did. <3

I kinda liked this part: 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/H3MarIVrDneUZgAuQc/giphy.gif)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/26FLdmIp6wJr91JAI/giphy.gif)

Hahaha, why am I not surprised? That looks to be the Toreador on the ferris wheel in the drawn art we've been seeing, and he's a pretty boy (i.e. default Toreador ;p).

On team straight-boy, I think the (guessing Tremere?) quest-giver lady is pretty. Happy they went with a modest chest and pleasant looks as opposed to some Tifa Lockheart need-a-forklift-for-each-mammary kinda chick.


OH! Also, I have a video to share: cutest Euro Bloodlines fangirl, Outstar, has a gameplay trailer analysis: :D

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 11, 2019, 08:59:12 pm
Hahaha, why am I not surprised? That looks to be the Toreador on the ferris wheel in the drawn art we've been seeing, and he's a pretty boy (i.e. default Toreador ;p).
Well he is Malkavian (see the malkavian trailer for yourself) and his role in the game is according to some previews that he is more like an assassin.
He is the one to kills Dominic who had own our first apartment / haven before us.
This guys would have killed us if the playercharacter were on his list.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 11, 2019, 10:37:50 pm
Hahaha, why am I not surprised? That looks to be the Toreador on the ferris wheel in the drawn art we've been seeing, and he's a pretty boy (i.e. default Toreador ;p).
Well he is Malkavian (see the malkavian trailer for yourself) and his role in the game is according to some previews that he is more like an assassin.
He is the one to kills Dominic who had own our first apartment / haven before us.
This guys would have killed us if the playercharacter were on his list.

The dude in the Malkavian trailer has a different outfit on. I think Benedict Murderbatch here is a Toreador Antitribu. They're sadistic sociopaths whose art is through torture and killing.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 11, 2019, 11:41:42 pm
Why is Cara listed there as "Lead Narrative Designer" and Brian only as "Narrative Designer"? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Also while Brian seems to be not much of a public speaker person, it annoys me that Cara is talking first and is more in the foreground in many of the interviews. I hope she doesn't influence the game too much and Brian can still create funny characters and stories without control!

That does seem odd. I've also seen most interviews with Brian as well, haven't seen the ones with Cara.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 12:01:56 am

OH! Also, I have a video to share: cutest Euro Bloodlines fangirl, Outstar, has a gameplay trailer analysis: :D



I love the fact that Mr. Sexy is actually in her video thumbnail.  lol
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 03:31:32 am

OH! Also, I have a video to share: cutest Euro Bloodlines fangirl, Outstar, has a gameplay trailer analysis: :D



I love the fact that Mr. Sexy is actually in her video thumbnail.  lol

And she likes him, too. See the cute little heart bubbles in the thumbnail? ;p
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 03:54:44 am
And she likes him, too. See the cute little heart bubbles in the thumbnail? ;p

Ah, I just watched it, yes she does.  I thought maybe she did because of the hearts,  but I wasn't sure if she was just showing how much she loves the game itself.  lol  She has GREAT taste! 

Malkavian or Toreador, he's a total scrumdiddlyumptious bar.

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/B/J/6/7BJ6o/ezgif-3-f3b72eefa42e.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 04:40:17 am
And she likes him, too. See the cute little heart bubbles in the thumbnail? ;p

Ah, I just watched it, yes she does.  I thought maybe she did because of the hearts,  but I wasn't sure if she was just showing how much she loves the game itself.  lol  She has GREAT taste! 

Malkavian or Toreador, he's a total scrumdiddlyumptious bar.

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/B/J/6/7BJ6o/ezgif-3-f3b72eefa42e.gif)

Sure, we have better medicine and technology, but I feel saddened by the loss of classily clad clods like the guy in that gif in the candy store. Now, assholes don't bother combing their hair and stand behind the counter of shops wearing t-shirts with writing on them.

And I'm hoping he's a Toreador Antitribu. Way better than "oh look a Malk who is crazy and violent because craziness is generic violence and that was SO interesting for the ghouls and other weirdos in Grout's mansion." *eyeroll* 

We've yet to see a Toreador Antitribu in a VtM game and they're pretty great. I would gladly kill the hell out of such a character much like how I always slay that fiend, Pisha. Unless he kills only people I wouldn't like, in which case he's a'ight.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on June 12, 2019, 06:17:20 am
And she likes him, too. See the cute little heart bubbles in the thumbnail? ;p

Ah, I just watched it, yes she does.  I thought maybe she did because of the hearts,  but I wasn't sure if she was just showing how much she loves the game itself.  lol  She has GREAT taste! 

Malkavian or Toreador, he's a total scrumdiddlyumptious bar.

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/B/J/6/7BJ6o/ezgif-3-f3b72eefa42e.gif)

Sure, we have better medicine and technology, but I feel saddened by the loss of classily clad clods like the guy in that gif in the candy store. Now, assholes don't bother combing their hair and stand behind the counter of shops wearing t-shirts with writing on them.

And I'm hoping he's a Toreador Antitribu. Way better than "oh look a Malk who is crazy and violent because craziness is generic violence and that was SO interesting for the ghouls and other weirdos in Grout's mansion." *eyeroll* 

We've yet to see a Toreador Antitribu in a VtM game and they're pretty great. I would gladly kill the hell out of such a character much like how I always slay that fiend, Pisha. Unless he kills only people I wouldn't like, in which case he's a'ight.

According to Outstar, his violence isn't random, he seems to be an assassin. So no matter, if he is Torri or Malkavian, it just seems to be his profession
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 06:45:37 am
And she likes him, too. See the cute little heart bubbles in the thumbnail? ;p

Ah, I just watched it, yes she does.  I thought maybe she did because of the hearts,  but I wasn't sure if she was just showing how much she loves the game itself.  lol  She has GREAT taste! 

Malkavian or Toreador, he's a total scrumdiddlyumptious bar.

(https://ist5-2.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/2/0/5/1/20516/7/B/J/6/7BJ6o/ezgif-3-f3b72eefa42e.gif)

Sure, we have better medicine and technology, but I feel saddened by the loss of classily clad clods like the guy in that gif in the candy store. Now, assholes don't bother combing their hair and stand behind the counter of shops wearing t-shirts with writing on them.

And I'm hoping he's a Toreador Antitribu. Way better than "oh look a Malk who is crazy and violent because craziness is generic violence and that was SO interesting for the ghouls and other weirdos in Grout's mansion." *eyeroll* 

We've yet to see a Toreador Antitribu in a VtM game and they're pretty great. I would gladly kill the hell out of such a character much like how I always slay that fiend, Pisha. Unless he kills only people I wouldn't like, in which case he's a'ight.

He can assassinate my....well...best I keep that thought to myself. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/bVNoojW3c3R7O/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Leorgrium on June 12, 2019, 07:46:53 am
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on June 12, 2019, 08:12:02 am
I see now what preview articles were saying before about the game nailing the feeling of its predecessor. I love everything about this...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 12, 2019, 09:54:25 am
It looks really great for an Alpha and i see the enormous potential but they clearly have to polish this game.
There is still time.

But the IGN guy isn´t very good in playing it to put it to put it politely.

Interessing Brian Mitsoda returns as News Anchor (same character ?) but also as Slugg and some random goons.

I also think that the Nosferatu Representative Samuel is voiced by Andy Milder. Who you might ask?
Well its the same actor who had voiced Prince Sebastian LaCroix.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0586994/?ref_=tt_cl_t2



Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 12, 2019, 11:32:39 am
I also think that the Nosferatu Representative Samuel is voiced by Andy Milder. Who you might ask?
Well its the same actor who had voiced Prince Sebastian LaCroix.

Great!  Prince LaCroix was a dick, but I appreciated his voice actor. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on June 12, 2019, 12:03:13 pm
Things look good for a pre-alpha. I wonder if they'll have enough time to finish the game, however, since we are less than a year away.

There is only one character that doesn't jive with me of the ones that got any screen time so far (the guy who is kind of your "guide" to the whole vampire thing, his humour feels forced and kind of awkward), but I think it's shaping up nicely. It's obvious animations, UI and some other things still need work, but there are already some nice touches. I wonder if we'll be able to nebulate through the iron gate eventually, instead of having to go around, that seems like an obvious interaction. Then again, I checked another gameplay video, and the journalists were probably couched to take certain routes (probably to keep some content hidden, and to not show incomplete areas and features), so maybe it's already possible.

As a fan of the first game, I could hardly ask for more at the moment. Unless something goes really wrong, I can see this shaping up into a fantastic game.

Also, we can dance. XD

P.S.

Is it just me, or the music is a bit absent at times? I wonder if it's a quirk of the current development stage, or a design decision.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on June 12, 2019, 01:03:02 pm
More gameplay courtesy of PCWorld!

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 12, 2019, 02:51:40 pm
Things look good for a pre-alpha. I wonder if they'll have enough time to finish the game, however, since we are less than a year away.

I hope they have, because even in that special demo for E3 I could see some of the usual things the Unofficial Patch fixed in the original game!

Quote
There is only one character that doesn't jive with me of the ones that got any screen time so far (the guy who is kind of your "guide" to the whole vampire thing, his humour feels forced and kind of awkward), but I think it's shaping up nicely.

Are you talking about the few lines we get in the trailer or have you seen a video of the beginning of the game? Because in the latter he is really cool and funny!

Quote
Is it just me, or the music is a bit absent at times? I wonder if it's a quirk of the current development stage, or a design decision.

I would guess that the soundtrack is far from finished at the moment.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on June 12, 2019, 03:29:13 pm
Does anyone know what song is playing in the club? I tried looking up the lyrics, but I'm not finding anything.

I guess it isn't necessarily a licensed track - but it doesn't sound like it was made for the game, if that makes sense...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on June 12, 2019, 04:55:11 pm
I hope they have, because even in that special demo for E3 I could see some of the usual things the Unofficial Patch fixed in the original game!

I hope that they are willing to push the release a few months, if they need to. Of course, if they manage to wrap things up in time, all the better.

Quote
Are you talking about the few lines we get in the trailer or have you seen a video of the beginning of the game? Because in the latter he is really cool and funny!

I think it might be that I just don't like the tone they decided to give him. The line"Uhm, welcome to the first day of the rest of your death! Having fun yet?" Made me roll my eyes. The line itself is funny, but he manages to sound whiny and mocking at the same time, which is a serious feat, but something I'd rather not listen to very often. XD

Quote
I would guess that the soundtrack is far from finished at the moment.

It very well could be. A year is probably plenty to beef up the soundtrack, if that's the reason.

Regardless, I am pretty stoked about this, the end of 2019 and the start of 2020 seem to have plenty of treats for me!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 12, 2019, 05:46:19 pm
I would guess that the soundtrack is far from finished at the moment.
The great thing is that they will use at least one unused track.


By the way there can i find this track in Bloodlines 1?

Of course the obligatory reaction video from Outstar.
&feature=youtu.be

And this
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D83xN-fXsAEisYG.jpg)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 12, 2019, 06:40:22 pm
By the way there can i find this track in Bloodlines 1?

It's playing in the tutorial as this is downtown too :)!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on June 12, 2019, 08:48:05 pm
More gameplay, from GameSpot this time - just another variant on the same exact path. I guess whoever was playing these demos for the press already had their route planned. Combat's a lot less rough, though.

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 12, 2019, 10:52:06 pm
I would guess that the soundtrack is far from finished at the moment.
The great thing is that they will use at least one unused track.


By the way there can i find this track in Bloodlines 1?

Of course the obligatory reaction video from Outstar.
&feature=youtu.be

And this
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D83xN-fXsAEisYG.jpg)

The pinnacle of Outstar's video, in my opinion, (or perhaps two of them?) were her dancing irl as the player character dances, and her face-covering cringe during the worst playing I may have ever witnessed in a fight in a game.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on June 13, 2019, 12:29:59 pm


And more gameplay! This is the most interesting clip by far, shows off way more than the others...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 14, 2019, 09:18:19 pm
Another E3 Video.


What can i say? I still like the Atrium club music. ;)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 15, 2019, 07:26:26 pm


And more gameplay! This is the most interesting clip by far, shows off way more than the others...

I like that we finally got to see the "success" outcome of the quest. I also like that you get the same XP reward however you do it, since the same amount of effort was involved either way. I suspect the non-experience outcomes could be the big variables; i.e. killing Slugg versus letting him go, and pleasing Elif and the Pyramid as opposed to pissing them off. I dunno if they would gate you off from becoming a Tremere for botching the mission, though.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 16, 2019, 02:14:44 am
I like that we finally got to see the "success" outcome of the quest. I also like that you get the same XP reward however you do it, since the same amount of effort was involved either way. I suspect the non-experience outcomes could be the big variables; i.e. killing Slugg versus letting him go, and pleasing Elif and the Pyramid as opposed to pissing them off. I dunno if they would gate you off from becoming a Tremere for botching the mission, though.

I agree, you are free to live with the consequences of your choices.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 17, 2019, 01:19:39 am
I like that we finally got to see the "success" outcome of the quest. I also like that you get the same XP reward however you do it, since the same amount of effort was involved either way. I suspect the non-experience outcomes could be the big variables; i.e. killing Slugg versus letting him go, and pleasing Elif and the Pyramid as opposed to pissing them off. I dunno if they would gate you off from becoming a Tremere for botching the mission, though.

I agree, you are free to live with the consequences of your choices.

Is your "fuck the Chantry" remark under your profile pic in reference to all Tremere or just those of the Camarilla Pyramid? =p
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 17, 2019, 01:34:24 am
Is your "fuck the Chantry" remark under your profile pic in reference to all Tremere or just those of the Camarilla Pyramid? =p

It's a Dragon Age reference....... I might have to change it though, given the forum xD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 17, 2019, 03:21:21 am
Is your "fuck the Chantry" remark under your profile pic in reference to all Tremere or just those of the Camarilla Pyramid? =p

It's a Dragon Age reference....... I might have to change it though, given the forum xD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 17, 2019, 03:22:24 am
Is your "fuck the Chantry" remark under your profile pic in reference to all Tremere or just those of the Camarilla Pyramid? =p

It's a Dragon Age reference....... I might have to change it though, given the forum xD

Haha, oh I remember that now! Yyyyeah, I think that on a VtM forum, that might give folks the wrong idea for very understandable reasons. I was all "Tremere rule! How dare ye?!?!" =p
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 18, 2019, 03:48:12 am
Well, Tremere are sort of dicks too. Sooo... long live Toreador !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 18, 2019, 01:56:36 pm
And some more links:



Interview with Brian Mitsoda.



Another demo playthrough with Chiopteran.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 18, 2019, 11:01:07 pm
Another demo playthrough with Chiopteran.

I sincerely hope they work on that. Chiropteran seems to be an insta-kill "nova" AOE centered on your character that insta-kills all humans very close to you. Unless the dude has like Chiropteran 5, then I'm terribly worried about the balance of the Thinblood abilities. =/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 21, 2019, 10:21:32 am
I just saw the video below which is about Cyberpunk 2077 actually, but as they cite VTMB as their biggest inspiration, it's very important that B2 is released not at the same time:

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm Streicher 19 on June 21, 2019, 10:52:26 am


And a speculation about the factions from Outstar of course.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on June 22, 2019, 12:17:23 am
Outside Xbox and Xtra are another gaming channels, I really love. And since Mike is a big Bloodlines fan, they might make more videos about Bloodlines 2
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: MooCHa on June 23, 2019, 03:40:36 pm
I just saw the video below which is about Cyberpunk 2077 actually, but as they cite VTMB as their biggest inspiration, it's very important that B2 is released not at the same time:



I might get this on pre-order in a few Months time. No Gimmicks with this Title. No extras bullshit if you pre-order.

It says a lot that. I never pre-order ;)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 23, 2019, 04:40:43 pm
I just saw the video below which is about Cyberpunk 2077 actually, but as they cite VTMB as their biggest inspiration, it's very important that B2 is released not at the same time:



I might get this on pre-order in a few Months time. No Gimmicks with this Title. No extras bullshit if you pre-order.

It says a lot that. I never pre-order ;)

For me, it depends on when Bloodlines 2 launches. If it comes out before Cyberpunk 2077, I'm gonna wait for the latter to go on sale at a discount while I do five runs through Bloodlines 2. ;p
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: MooCHa on June 23, 2019, 05:12:17 pm

For me, it depends on when Bloodlines 2 launches. If it comes out before Cyberpunk 2077, I'm gonna wait for the latter to go on sale at a discount while I do five runs through Bloodlines 2. ;p

I think BL2 is due on the 31st of March and Cyberpunk 2077 is 15th April. I'm sure you won't sleep for those 15 days lol
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 23, 2019, 06:36:18 pm

For me, it depends on when Bloodlines 2 launches. If it comes out before Cyberpunk 2077, I'm gonna wait for the latter to go on sale at a discount while I do five runs through Bloodlines 2. ;p

I think BL2 is due on the 31st of March and Cyberpunk 2077 is 15th April. I'm sure you won't sleep for those 15 days lol

Haha, that sounds about right. As much as I want the game sooner than later, I do hope they get the game "feeling complete" before they put it out, though. If they have to delay 2-3 months, I'd be down with that, and it wouldn't put the game out around the same time as other titles vying for people's money.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 24, 2019, 04:25:07 pm

For me, it depends on when Bloodlines 2 launches. If it comes out before Cyberpunk 2077, I'm gonna wait for the latter to go on sale at a discount while I do five runs through Bloodlines 2. ;p

I think BL2 is due on the 31st of March and Cyberpunk 2077 is 15th April. I'm sure you won't sleep for those 15 days lol

Haha, that sounds about right. As much as I want the game sooner than later, I do hope they get the game "feeling complete" before they put it out, though. If they have to delay 2-3 months, I'd be down with that, and it wouldn't put the game out around the same time as other titles vying for people's money.

Whatever it takes to make an enjoyable and successful game that will spawn even more sequels and spinoffs.  I am hoping this is the start of a lot more VtmB stuff. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 24, 2019, 04:48:09 pm
As much as I want the game sooner than later, I do hope they get the game "feeling complete" before they put it out, though.

Judging from what happened with Bloodlines I would say they should go with a Halloween release which gives more time :)!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 24, 2019, 08:56:29 pm
As much as I want the game sooner than later, I do hope they get the game "feeling complete" before they put it out, though.

Judging from what happened with Bloodlines I would say they should go with a Halloween release which gives more time :)!

And people think about vampire more at Halloween time too, of course. ;)

Besides, I'd really like to be able to play Bloodlines 2, (hopefully) love it, and NOT feel like I need to play through it a couple dozen times hunting down bugs to get it fixed because the publisher/developer dropped the ball.

Anyone else feel really weird about Chiropteran killing two humans just by them being near the bats swirling around the PC (the "shielding" bats, not the attacking ones) for like 2 seconds? It doesn't sit well for me. ALSO the Potence ability that is described as you smashing the ground hard enough to hurt enemies around you...it bothers me that there's no animation of hitting the ground. I would think they're going to add that later...except that they showcased the discipline at the end of the Brujah video like they're proud of it, and had it used multiple times in almost every gameplay video. It's just a magical red "nova" shockwave that pops out of the player with little hand motioning. I'm not asking for a lot here.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 24, 2019, 10:56:56 pm
ALSO the Potence ability that is described as you smashing the ground hard enough to hurt enemies around you...it bothers me that there's no animation of hitting the ground. I would think they're going to add that later...except that they showcased the discipline at the end of the Brujah video like they're proud of it, and had it used multiple times in almost every gameplay video. It's just a magical red "nova" shockwave that pops out of the player with little hand motioning. I'm not asking for a lot here.

The ground hitting animation would be cool if it could be done quickly.  Having it be a power you can cast while running around makes combat easier and less annoying, particularly if there are several enemies.  I don't need to see an elaborate animation every time I do a move.  They're a lot of fun the first few times but then they can become mildly annoying.  Like the kill cams in Skyrim or Fallout 4.  They were really cool the first few times, but then they cut into game play and annoyed the bejeezus out of me and I had to download mods to stop them in Skyrim, originally.  Its also like those more powerful spells in Skyrim or Enderal where it takes both hands and you have to finger trace some fancy hand movements before the spells ignite.  It gives enemies time to hit me, which stops the animation AND the spell from taking place and causes me to take damage.  When playing the Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights games I always try to upgrade my spell casting so I can cast my spells instantly without all the precious seconds sucking hand waving animations and gobbledygook mumbling that takes time before the spell is cast. 

So yeah if they do implement such an animation, I hope its lightening fast and uncomplicated or at least optional.   
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 25, 2019, 05:45:55 am
ALSO the Potence ability that is described as you smashing the ground hard enough to hurt enemies around you...it bothers me that there's no animation of hitting the ground. I would think they're going to add that later...except that they showcased the discipline at the end of the Brujah video like they're proud of it, and had it used multiple times in almost every gameplay video. It's just a magical red "nova" shockwave that pops out of the player with little hand motioning. I'm not asking for a lot here.

The ground hitting animation would be cool if it could be done quickly.  Having it be a power you can cast while running around makes combat easier and less annoying, particularly if there are several enamies.  I don't need to see an elaborate animation every time I do a move.  They're a lot of fun the first few times but then they can become mildly annoying.  Like the kill cams in Skyrim or Fallout 4.  They were really cool the first few times, but then they cut into game play and annoyed the bejeezus out of me and I had to download mods to stop them in Skyrim, originally.  Its also like those more powerful spells in Skyrim or Enderal where it takes both hands and you have to finger trace some fancy hand movements before the spells ignite.  It gives enemies time to hit me, which stops the animation AND the spell from taking place and causes me to take damage.  When playing the Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights games I always try to upgrade my spell casting so I can cast my spells instantly without all the precious seconds sucking hand waving animations and gobbledygook mumbling that takes time before the spell is cast. 

So yeah if they do implement such an animation, I hope its lightening fast and uncomplicated or at least optional.   

Yeah, I'd like it to be fast as well. Having attack animations that are drawn out gets pretty lame. Granted, this attack insta-kills all mortals in a big radius, so I don't think even a quasi-drawn out downward-slamming motion with fists or a melee weapon is very much to ask given you should only be using this to kill 2 or more enemies at once, so it's already saving time (or using it to stun a mini-boss).

That Chiropteran insta-kill, though...really hoping that was Chiropteran 5 to be that powerful, or else why bother getting Potence or Mentalism when Chiropteran lets you 1) glide to areas you may not be otherwise able to reach, 2) shields you from attacks 3) stuns a targeted enemy, and 4) insta-kills all enemies immediately around you. I mean holy SHIT that's a lot of stuff it does. That's more powerful and far more versatile than Thaumaturgy, and has far less blood cost. =/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on June 25, 2019, 05:26:14 pm


A new video from Outstar. DIdn't know, she worked on Witcher 3 (albeit short, still nice)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 27, 2019, 07:24:22 am
ALSO the Potence ability that is described as you smashing the ground hard enough to hurt enemies around you...it bothers me that there's no animation of hitting the ground. I would think they're going to add that later...except that they showcased the discipline at the end of the Brujah video like they're proud of it, and had it used multiple times in almost every gameplay video. It's just a magical red "nova" shockwave that pops out of the player with little hand motioning. I'm not asking for a lot here.

The ground hitting animation would be cool if it could be done quickly.  Having it be a power you can cast while running around makes combat easier and less annoying, particularly if there are several enamies.  I don't need to see an elaborate animation every time I do a move.  They're a lot of fun the first few times but then they can become mildly annoying.  Like the kill cams in Skyrim or Fallout 4.  They were really cool the first few times, but then they cut into game play and annoyed the bejeezus out of me and I had to download mods to stop them in Skyrim, originally.  Its also like those more powerful spells in Skyrim or Enderal where it takes both hands and you have to finger trace some fancy hand movements before the spells ignite.  It gives enemies time to hit me, which stops the animation AND the spell from taking place and causes me to take damage.  When playing the Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights games I always try to upgrade my spell casting so I can cast my spells instantly without all the precious seconds sucking hand waving animations and gobbledygook mumbling that takes time before the spell is cast. 

So yeah if they do implement such an animation, I hope its lightening fast and uncomplicated or at least optional.   

Yeah, I'd like it to be fast as well. Having attack animations that are drawn out gets pretty lame. Granted, this attack insta-kills all mortals in a big radius, so I don't think even a quasi-drawn out downward-slamming motion with fists or a melee weapon is very much to ask given you should only be using this to kill 2 or more enemies at once, so it's already saving time (or using it to stun a mini-boss).

That Chiropteran insta-kill, though...really hoping that was Chiropteran 5 to be that powerful, or else why bother getting Potence or Mentalism when Chiropteran lets you 1) glide to areas you may not be otherwise able to reach, 2) shields you from attacks 3) stuns a targeted enemy, and 4) insta-kills all enemies immediately around you. I mean holy SHIT that's a lot of stuff it does. That's more powerful and far more versatile than Thaumaturgy, and has far less blood cost. =/

There will likely be balancing mods if such things prove to be a problem. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Monjh on June 28, 2019, 04:33:46 am


A new video from Outstar. DIdn't know, she worked on Witcher 3 (albeit short, still nice)

I was happy being the lurker, only watching, but after this...

Look, I get it: they put a lot of effort in the graphics and design, and want the player to be able to experience them to the most. And the FPS focus on the combat also plays a hand here. But the developers are forgeting a simple thing: what the players want. If the vast majority (92% or more) of players want first person all the time, ok, keep going. But if a significant amount want the third person option, why would you let them wait for a "3rd-person mod"? I really think they should reconsider - at least to give the option for it, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 28, 2019, 04:52:48 am


A new video from Outstar. DIdn't know, she worked on Witcher 3 (albeit short, still nice)

I was happy being the lurker, only watching, but after this...

Look, I get it: they put a lot of effort in the graphics and design, and want the player to be able to experience them to the most. And the FPS focus on the combat also plays a hand here. But the developers are forgeting a simple thing: what the players want. If the vast majority (92% or more) of players want first person all the time, ok, keep going. But if a significant amount want the third person option, why would you let them wait for a "3rd-person mod"? I really think they should reconsider - at least to give the option for it, if nothing else.

Can you rebut the mountain of points she made as to justification for first person only? If so, please enlighten us, because just saying that a significant amount of people want it doesn't justify something. Also, how in the world do you think that the devs didn't consider what people wanted in regard to third person? I have no doubt that they did a cost-benefit analyses on the matter and deemed it would cost them more money to put it in than it would benefit them. Seriously, though, did you watch Outstar's video? She considered the pros and cons to having it and presented overwhelming arguments in favor of first person only while the third person arguments had barely any merit.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Monjh on June 28, 2019, 02:21:21 pm
Will attempt a brief reply: Take my point as you like. I can't take you serious, your writing skills and boderline child-like behaviour reminds me too much of Kyasid to pay you any mind.

Back to lurking. =)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: MooCHa on June 28, 2019, 03:53:17 pm
I don't see the issue with adding the Third Person Camera view. Not like it will be hard for a dev to implement it at this point to all of the Playable Characters.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 28, 2019, 06:01:31 pm
I don't see the issue with adding the Third Person Camera view. Not like it will be hard for a dev to implement it at this point to all of the Playable Characters.

I agree. Bloodlines itself was clearly designed to be realistic from a first person view and still the third person camera worked! I hope they add it later with the Gangrel clan because Protean makes no sense at all if you can't see that you are a monster ;).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 28, 2019, 10:42:37 pm
Will attempt a brief reply: Take my point as you like. I can't take you serious, your writing skills and boderline child-like behaviour reminds me too much of Kyasid to pay you any mind.

Back to lurking. =)

You used an ad hominem attack against me as a person in an attempt to dodge answering the question. Pray tell, how did you manage to misspell "borderline" in a two-line response in which you are insulting my "writing skills?"

Moreover, you claim my behavior in response to you is childlike when your argument is that you and other people want it, so you should get it, regardless of the presented veritable mountain of counterpoints; end of discussion. Quite literally end of discussion, in fact, since you are attempting to shut down the conversation and avoid rebutting the myriad of reasons Outstar gave as to why you and others of your ilk are objectively wrong.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on June 29, 2019, 04:30:17 pm
You used an ad hominem attack against me as a person in an attempt to dodge answering the question. Pray tell, how did you manage to misspell "borderline" in a two-line response in which you are insulting my "writing skills?"

Moreover, you claim my behavior in response to you is childlike when your argument is that you and other people want it, so you should get it, regardless of the presented veritable mountain of counterpoints; end of discussion. Quite literally end of discussion, in fact, since you are attempting to shut down the conversation and avoid rebutting the myriad of reasons Outstar gave as to why you and others of your ilk are objectively wrong.

Look man, I am not him, and I wasn't going to say anything, but you are too partisan for your own good, if you believe first person is objectively better than third person.

Just to give you two things off the top of my head: first person can more easily give people nausea and other similar issues (especially when paired with low FOV and a bobbing camera, for example), and a third person camera offers better spatial awareness in combat (especially relevant since melee is supposed to be a big focus, which unlike guns require close-quarter fights, meaning that the expanded vision is particularly impacting).

The truth is that there are arguments for and against both approaches, which depend on what you want to focus on. If budget or technical issues don't allow for both, I would say that first person is better for this game, since it allows a greater focus on the NPCs, which we can expect to be very important in the kind of RPG Bloodlines 2 is trying to be, keeps you closer to the action, is easier to implement and makes movement more impactful (which seems to be what they are trying to go for), but under no circumstances, there is a flat out better approach to RPG camera work between first and third person.

Third person would give players an easier time traversing maps by giving a wider look, making it easier to spot alternative routes as well. You can afford to place items, enemies and hazards differently as compared to first person (because first person has big blind spots), you have an easier judging distances, etc.

And if you want to say that good game design can work around those, you could say the same for the reverse argument/camera. Furthermore, people are asking for both cameras, so they aren't trying to eliminate first person and the previous game had both, giving further weight to their argument. People of course don't expect the need to write an essay to defend their rather humble "I'd like it if third person was still a thing" suggestion, when talking in an informal setting such as a forum, and I feel kind of stupid doing so, specifically when some people aren't even trying to make the argument of "third person is better" which is what you want them to do, apparently, but they are saying "I prefer third person" (some are just saying "I prefer third person in some scenarios", btw), which is a matter of personal taste, that doesn't need arguing. Also, saying that "many people would like x feature" is not a moot point, since the desires of the potential audience have to be at least considered when creating something. Although those aren't strong arguments, they aren't meant to be.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 30, 2019, 06:19:20 am
You used an ad hominem attack against me as a person in an attempt to dodge answering the question. Pray tell, how did you manage to misspell "borderline" in a two-line response in which you are insulting my "writing skills?"

Moreover, you claim my behavior in response to you is childlike when your argument is that you and other people want it, so you should get it, regardless of the presented veritable mountain of counterpoints; end of discussion. Quite literally end of discussion, in fact, since you are attempting to shut down the conversation and avoid rebutting the myriad of reasons Outstar gave as to why you and others of your ilk are objectively wrong.

Look man, I am not him, and I wasn't going to say anything, but you are too partisan for your own good, if you believe first person is objectively better than third person.

Too partisan? Outstar presented superior arguments as to why first person is better. It is a veritable wealth of reasons as to why, and she even compares the positives of third person. If money is relevant - and in the case of a company like Paradox with a product like Bloodlines 2 - they don't necessarily have enough money to pay for both first and third-person and still make enough profit, and Outstar's arguments explain that there are far more benefits to first person than third person. When there are more pros for one than cons, and it's not a moral argument, the one with the most pros is the clear correct course of action when cost is a big factor, which it seems to be or else they would be including it. I have no reason to suspect that they're just being lazy and don't want to put it in.

You can't just go through life, hearing an argument that blows the other side out of the water, then shrugging and refusing to go with the better argument for fear of appearing partisan. Choose the best options. That's wisdom.

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Just to give you two things off the top of my head: first person can more easily give people nausea and other similar issues (especially when paired with low FOV and a bobbing camera, for example), and a third person camera offers better spatial awareness in combat (especially relevant since melee is supposed to be a big focus, which unlike guns require close-quarter fights, meaning that the expanded vision is particularly impacting).

Outstar covered this in that video. While my heart goes out to those few people, they are an extremely small fraction of gamers compared to those who do not suffer from that. Again, this comes down to cost-benefit analysis, and Outstar claims that turning off head bob and having good FOV sliders fixes this issue for most folks, so hopefully they'll implement that. I mean if they're going fully first person, I believe they should do so properly by including these options. Leaving them out could make the only available perspective pretty poor.

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The truth is that there are arguments for and against both approaches, which depend on what you want to focus on. If budget or technical issues don't allow for both, I would say that first person is better for this game, since it allows a greater focus on the NPCs, which we can expect to be very important in the kind of RPG Bloodlines 2 is trying to be, keeps you closer to the action, is easier to implement and makes movement more impactful (which seems to be what they are trying to go for), but under no circumstances, there is a flat out better approach to RPG camera work between first and third person.

I never claimed that first person is always better; simply that it's objectively better for Bloodlines 2, as per the stack of reasons as to why first person is superior to third person for this game. I'd like both so that people would quit complaining, but if paying for both means that Paradox suffers financial losses which - when compounded with other potentially poor decisions - results in Bloodlines 3 or more VtM games not getting made for years to come, then I wholeheartedly want third person to be purely a modder's indulgence if that's the case.

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Third person would give players an easier time traversing maps by giving a wider look, making it easier to spot alternative routes as well. You can afford to place items, enemies and hazards differently as compared to first person (because first person has big blind spots), you have an easier judging distances, etc.

FOV slider gives a wider view in first person as well, and unless they screw up the game, everything should be easily viewable from first person since they're building it solely based on first person. Hopefully they do pay attention and don't screw that up. Judging by the gameplay video, that area in The Jungle that was sort of "open" where there's a hole up high and several homeless people scattered around could've potentially benefitted from third person, at least the way the game is built right now. So you make a decent point for situations like that, but there are so many more points which support that first person is superior that it isn't even a close competition as to which is superior.

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And if you want to say that good game design can work around those, you could say the same for the reverse argument/camera. Furthermore, people are asking for both cameras, so they aren't trying to eliminate first person and the previous game had both, giving further weight to their argument.

The first game wasn't profitable enough for a sequel to be sought out by Activision, either. I want Paradox to make crazy good money on this game, and any costs they can cut which don't make the game suck are great by me, so if they have to leave out an extra perspective, I say go for it.

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People of course don't expect the need to write an essay to defend their rather humble "I'd like it if third person was still a thing" suggestion, when talking in an informal setting such as a forum, and I feel kind of stupid doing so, specifically when some people aren't even trying to make the argument of "third person is better" which is what you want them to do, apparently, but they are saying "I prefer third person" (some are just saying "I prefer third person in some scenarios", btw), which is a matter of personal taste, that doesn't need arguing.

My issue isn't that. My issue is that the fellow before posited that Paradox is "forgetting" that "a significant number of people" want third person. I think it's ridiculous to think that they haven't considered that. Companies want the biggest profits possible. They want to do everything they can to make this game as much like the first Bloodlines while having cool new stuff to bring in old fans and new ones. If they could put in third person without it costing them a lot of money to do it, I have no doubt in my mind that they would do it. If this was a product that is guaranteed to sell millions of copies within a year or two, then yeah, I'd say they're being cheapskates, but with something niche like Bloodlines 2, they have to be careful not to over-spend so that they don't end up losing money or making such low profits that another Bloodlines game isn't financially feasible for them.

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Also, saying that "many people would like x feature" is not a moot point, since the desires of the potential audience have to be at least considered when creating something. Although those aren't strong arguments, they aren't meant to be.

The problem, however, is that "many people want it" becomes a moot point when all of the other reasons not to have third person as presented in Outstar's video vastly outweigh the reasons to have it when cost is a big factor. While a few drama queens of those "many people" might claim they'll boycott it or something, let's be real here: 15 years waiting for another Bloodlines game? Beggars can't be choosers. If it was going to be third person only, I'd still buy it even though Outstar's points establish first person's clear superiority for this sort of game (when you have to choose between the two), because I want to play another Bloodlines game even if a poor design choice was made.

While I prefer that developers not rely on modders, the cost situation here makes it so they're essentially going to have to with third person.

I do have other concerns as far as this cost stuff goes, though. For instance, only getting 5 clans at launch, apparently due to costs, and they're all clans that were already playable in Bloodlines 1. I'm pretty sure a fair number of folks on this board would've been squealing with glee to swap at least one of the 5 announced clans out for something like Tzimisce, Lasombra, Banu Haqim, Hecata, Ravnos, Salubri, or the Ministry. However, Paradox talks in their livestream about having to basically play it safe for financial concerns and depending on how the game sells, they'll see what they can do.

Obviously, I hope it sells well because I would love to play as those other clans, but I'm just hoping the game doesn't have disastrous sales resulting in us not even getting the other two clans (Gangrel and Nosferatu (for me, that's a big "meh" for both of those, but I'd rather have them than not). =/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Ghanima_Atreides on June 30, 2019, 08:45:23 am

Just to give you two things off the top of my head: first person can more easily give people nausea


Yeah, I'm one of those people. :( Although I have been trying to get used to it, and it's worked, some, I still feel like I have blinders on when I play in 1st person. It's mostly OK for fights, especially boss fights, but NOT for exploring. That's going to feel very unnatural and weird to me.

My biggest issue with 1st person only however is the fact that, unless they add some kind of vanity camera, I won't really be able to look at my character post-creation, take photos, etc., which would be a huge drawback for those of us who enjoy working on our character's appearance and actually LOOKING at them in-game afterwards. So I hope there is something like that, even if it's just static...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 30, 2019, 11:42:31 am
For my part, I do prefer first person, though I do like when a game gives us options for both because I also want to be able to admire the character I created, from time to time.  I don't loath third person, and one of my all time favorite franchises, Mass Effect, utilizes third person, but when a game gives me the choice, I always go with first person.  I like when it seems like I am looking through my own eyes at the game world. Third person most definitely doesn't offer me that type of immersion.  But ultimately, if I had my way, all non-isometric RPG games would offer both options.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on June 30, 2019, 07:51:53 pm
Quote from: Ghanima_Atreides
Yeah, I'm one of those people. :( Although I have been trying to get used to it, and it's worked, some, I still feel like I have blinders on when I play in 1st person. It's mostly OK for fights, especially boss fights, but NOT for exploring. That's going to feel very unnatural and weird to me.

My biggest issue with 1st person only however is the fact that, unless they add some kind of vanity camera, I won't really be able to look at my character post-creation, take photos, etc., which would be a huge drawback for those of us who enjoy working on our character's appearance and actually LOOKING at them in-game afterwards. So I hope there is something like that, even if it's just static...

Here's hoping they at least give us a button for while we're standing still to show our character in third person for checking out our appearance and letting us rotate the camera around, pan up/down, etc., kinda like in Vermintide 2, if anyone has played that. Vampires are in the setting, but alas, none in the game. D':

Perhaps it will be like the character view in Bloodlines 1 in the menu when you go to the screen where you can rotate the character and make the Malk girl's skirt fly up and her chest sling hard enough to one side for it to decapitate someone with blunt force...not that I ever did that with the character viewer, m'lady. *fedora-tips*

For my part, I do prefer first person, though I do like when a game gives us options for both because I also want to be able to admire the character I created, from time to time.  I don't loath third person, and one of my all time favorite franchises, Mass Effect, utilizes third person, but when a game gives me the choice, I always go with first person.  I like when it seems like I am looking through my own eyes at the game world. Third person most definitely doesn't offer me that type of immersion.  But ultimately, if I had my way, all non-isometric RPG games would offer both options.

First off, haha I keep tilting my head irl to look at your avatar. Just had to finally mention that.

Second, RE2 is my game of the year thus far this year, and it's in third person, so I loves me some third person in certain circumstances. Heck, Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a game I love, and it is first person but does third person when you stick to cover, which is a fantastic game mechanic; the best of both worlds, in my opinion.

As for non-isometric RPG games having both options, I will say, however, that I'm replaying VtM Redemption (Outstar is too lovable and tempted me to play it again by playing it herself, damnit >_<) and you can hold a key to switch to first person as long as you're holding that key. I don't know if it works in combat or not, but even standing still, it's pretty awful because the game has such low detail. I think That's why it's good that RE4 is in third person as well, while RE2 honestly could've been done either way, but third person was necessary in that one for the nostalgia whores, in my opinion. ;p
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on June 30, 2019, 09:19:59 pm
Heck, Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a game I love, and it is first person but does third person when you stick to cover, which is a fantastic game mechanic; the best of both worlds, in my opinion.

I actually really dislike this mechanism, let me choose to stick with either first person or third person if I like. I really hate it when my character suddenly changes the view just because he is near cover or does a special move, like in the B2 gameplay video! I hope we can avoid that.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on June 30, 2019, 09:54:16 pm
First off, haha I keep tilting my head irl to look at your avatar. Just had to finally mention that.

Ha, maybe I will keep this one up a little longer than I usually do.  :D

Yeah, the lower detail games in First Person aren't the best, that is very true.  I don't know if anyone around here has ever played Dungeon Keeper 2, its an older game that I just love to play now and again, even today.  Anyway, in game there is a spell that your Keeper can cast called "Possession" in which you can, surprise surprise, possess one of your little minions.  It brings you into first person mode and it looks utterly ridiculous because the detail is extremely low grade. Its certainly not my favorite mechanic for that particular game. 

I actually really dislike this mechanism, let me choose to stick with either first person or third person if I like. I really hate it when my character suddenly changes the view just because he is near cover or does a special move, like in the B2 gameplay video! I hope we can avoid that.

This reminds me of how I felt when i played Bloodlines 1 for the first time and my character whipped out a knife.  I loathed suddenly switching into third person view any time I wanted to use a melee weapon, but I guess over the years, I have grown used to it. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on June 30, 2019, 10:05:08 pm
snip

Let's say that I share the same hopes for Bloodlines 2 to do well enough to get sequels, and I hope nobody would say that they want TPP if it meant the game would be unable to make its money back as a result. These only matter though, if something is upheld, and that is that Bloodlines 2 is still a game I like (to make an absurd example, if they turned this into "Bloodlines 2: Call of Duty", maybe they would sell millions of copies, but I certainly wouldn't be happy with the result). Camera perspective doesn't matter a huge amount to me, but it might be important to others, which is why they are bringing it up.

As for Outstar's points, the first few ones aren't very good nor binding (saying that 3rd person is better only in wide environment is flat out wrong, actually, and you can see that in many stealth series, to name a genre I like and know well). She brings up shooting (which should be less of a focus compared to brawl/melee, from what we gathered from the devs so far), and details being more visible (which isn't a requirement for a quality game and is expensive to bring out, so it might even be a potential downside, especially if there are a lot of details, but you can't interact with most of it, it might even be considered "pretty clutter", rather than a positive).

When she brings up the verticality not being there for 3rd person, but then having to willingly ignore Sekiro after bringing it up, and making the reaching argument that this doesn't happen with modern buildings (but I am sure we can add more games to the list that have 3rd person camera and verticality in the shooter segment).

I think her best argument by this point, is when she mentions how it's harder to make a good 3rd person camera in closed environment (because it's true). Mentioning the shortcomings of Bloodlines 1 also isn't such a strong argument, since we have had considerable technical improvements over the years. While I am not going to claim it would be easy (it's definitely harder than having just FPP), I feel like Bloodlines 1 isn't a good meter for technical achievements (the game was broken in many ways that didn't relate to the camera, so it's hardly a good measuring stick).

I'll stop here. Again, though, I am not here to write essays, I am just saying that the first person arguments aren't nearly as airtight as you make them out to be. Since the devs decided to go first person, they should stick to it (there is nothing worse than trying to fit another technological hurdle after you did most of the work assuming it wasn't going to be there), but there are plenty of pros and cons. Assuming that they didn't have the possibility to do both, it's easy to imagine why they would pick first person (since it's more visceral and personal, and it works with how most dialogues played out in the first one), but just because it's easy to imagine why, doesn't mean it's an easy decision, if you get what I mean.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on July 01, 2019, 02:25:52 am
snip

Yeah, I see your point, though if they put effort into up-close detail, that will be a strong positive for first person view. Or if they make it ugly like VtM Redemption, then it'll be a negative for first person view. =p

DarkZephyr I also hated pulling out melee weapons in Bloodlines 1, due to the forced perspective change.

Wesp, the difference between Deus Ex Human Revolution and the Bloodlines 2 gameplay video is that in Bloodlines 2, it looks as though the third person twirly sweep kick thing (or whatever that is) might be random and forced, which I hate the idea of. The move very often hit absolutely nothing in the video and really throws off the player as to which direction they're facing, where the enemies are, etc. I'm hoping it's controllable. In DXHR, on the other hand, you initiate the switch to third person by pressing the button to cling to cover. It happens 100% of the time rather than randomly.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on July 01, 2019, 09:40:49 am
Yeah, I see your point, though if they put effort into up-close detail, that will be a strong positive for first person view. Or if they make it ugly like VtM Redemption, then it'll be a negative for first person view. =p

Oh, I think this has the potential to look and feel great in first person. I am fairly excited for the game, the atmosphere seems to be there for the gameplay we have seen, the details looked very nice. Also, I don't know if it's just me, but while I suffer from vertigo IRL, I love the thrill of jumping around in games (Mirror's Edge feels great to me), so I think I'll have fun traversing the city. Of course, I care about the RPG aspects the most, so hopefully we get to see more of the game in the coming months.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on July 01, 2019, 11:36:52 am
Wesp, the difference between Deus Ex Human Revolution and the Bloodlines 2 gameplay video is that in Bloodlines 2, it looks as though the third person twirly sweep kick thing (or whatever that is) might be random and forced, which I hate the idea of.

As far as I know you have to select this special attack! About DXHR, I didn't really remember, if you need to actively push a cover button everything is fine. But I think there are games where just being near a cover automatically triggers third person view and I hate that! As for better vertically with first person, basically all the climbing in the B2 demo forced the view to third person, which I don't like. In fact with all the third person animations already shown, I really hope they deliver full view at the least when the Gangrel Protean DLC comes out...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on July 01, 2019, 11:42:25 am
While I have no problems with first person, I agree, that if the Gangrels make an appearance, there should be an option for third person then, for the protean discipline.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on July 01, 2019, 02:58:25 pm
While I have no problems with first person, I agree, that if the Gangrels make an appearance, there should be an option for third person then, for the protean discipline

I suspect it might be something similar to how Bethesda handles werewolves and vampire lords in Skyrim.  When the change occurs, the game puts you in third person mode so you can see the creature you have become. 

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on July 01, 2019, 06:40:23 pm
While I have no problems with first person, I agree, that if the Gangrels make an appearance, there should be an option for third person then, for the protean discipline

I suspect it might be something similar to how Bethesda handles werewolves and vampire lords in Skyrim.  When the change occurs, the game puts you in third person mode so you can see the creature you have become.

That is not a bad idea. I'm not that far into Skyrim, that I encountered vampires or werewolves or was able to become one. My protagonist gets beaten up by Frostspiders atm, so very far from fighting a vampire :)
But I like the idea. And hopefully, the protean form is really cool, I didn't really like it in Bloodlines.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on July 01, 2019, 09:07:21 pm
While I have no problems with first person, I agree, that if the Gangrels make an appearance, there should be an option for third person then, for the protean discipline

I suspect it might be something similar to how Bethesda handles werewolves and vampire lords in Skyrim.  When the change occurs, the game puts you in third person mode so you can see the creature you have become.

That is not a bad idea. I'm not that far into Skyrim, that I encountered vampires or werewolves or was able to become one. My protagonist gets beaten up by Frostspiders atm, so very far from fighting a vampire :)
But I like the idea. And hopefully, the protean form is really cool, I didn't really like it in Bloodlines.

Regarding Skyrim and without spoilers, there are two ways in which the PC can become a vampire.  By accident, upon contracting the disease "Sanguinare Vampiris" and..well, I will let you discover the second way through your own gameplay or research. 

I have to say that Elder Scrolls vampires, unmodded, are my least favorite vampires to play (although Dawnguard did make them a lot more fun to play).  In Morrowind I always used the Vampire Embrace mod, in Oblivion I barely ever bothered and in Skyrim, even with Dawnguard installed, "Better Vampires" by Brehanin is absolutely indispensable, in my opinion.  Being a vampire becomes an absolute joy and it also becomes my favorite state to be in while playing Skyrim. 

I'm not sure which version you are playing, Classic Skyrim or Special Edition, so here are links to both versions of the mod in case you might want to use it: 

Classic Skyrim
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/9717

Skyrim SE
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1925/

But to get back on topic, I agree about the Protean.  I also hope that the model they use is much more badass than last time.  Although I did kind of like that it was some kind of bat creature.  I just wish they would have implemented that concept better. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on July 01, 2019, 10:00:32 pm
While I have no problems with first person, I agree, that if the Gangrels make an appearance, there should be an option for third person then, for the protean discipline

I suspect it might be something similar to how Bethesda handles werewolves and vampire lords in Skyrim.  When the change occurs, the game puts you in third person mode so you can see the creature you have become.

That is not a bad idea. I'm not that far into Skyrim, that I encountered vampires or werewolves or was able to become one. My protagonist gets beaten up by Frostspiders atm, so very far from fighting a vampire :)
But I like the idea. And hopefully, the protean form is really cool, I didn't really like it in Bloodlines.

Regarding Skyrim and without spoilers, there are two ways in which the PC can become a vampire.  By accident, upon contracting the disease "Sanguinare Vampiris" and..well, I will let you discover the second way through your own gameplay or research. 

I have to say that Elder Scrolls vampires, unmodded, are my least favorite vampires to play (although Dawnguard did make them a lot more fun to play).  In Morrowind I always used the Vampire Embrace mod, in Oblivion I barely ever bothered and in Skyrim, even with Dawnguard installed, "Better Vampires" by Brehanin is absolutely indispensable, in my opinion.  Being a vampire becomes an absolute joy and it also becomes my favorite state to be in while playing Skyrim. 

I'm not sure which version you are playing, Classic Skyrim or Special Edition, so here are links to both versions of the mod in case you might want to use it: 

Classic Skyrim
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/9717

Skyrim SE
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1925/

But to get back on topic, I agree about the Protean.  I also hope that the model they use is much more badass than last time.  Although I did kind of like that it was some kind of bat creature.  I just wish they would have implemented that concept better.

I think it's Classic. BUt I'm far from the vampires, as I said, I'm striggeling with Frostspiders and they are among the easier enemies (well, maybe not that really big one in that one cave)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkZephyr on July 02, 2019, 02:53:18 am
While I have no problems with first person, I agree, that if the Gangrels make an appearance, there should be an option for third person then, for the protean discipline

I suspect it might be something similar to how Bethesda handles werewolves and vampire lords in Skyrim.  When the change occurs, the game puts you in third person mode so you can see the creature you have become.

That is not a bad idea. I'm not that far into Skyrim, that I encountered vampires or werewolves or was able to become one. My protagonist gets beaten up by Frostspiders atm, so very far from fighting a vampire :)
But I like the idea. And hopefully, the protean form is really cool, I didn't really like it in Bloodlines.

Regarding Skyrim and without spoilers, there are two ways in which the PC can become a vampire.  By accident, upon contracting the disease "Sanguinare Vampiris" and..well, I will let you discover the second way through your own gameplay or research. 

I have to say that Elder Scrolls vampires, unmodded, are my least favorite vampires to play (although Dawnguard did make them a lot more fun to play).  In Morrowind I always used the Vampire Embrace mod, in Oblivion I barely ever bothered and in Skyrim, even with Dawnguard installed, "Better Vampires" by Brehanin is absolutely indispensable, in my opinion.  Being a vampire becomes an absolute joy and it also becomes my favorite state to be in while playing Skyrim. 

I'm not sure which version you are playing, Classic Skyrim or Special Edition, so here are links to both versions of the mod in case you might want to use it: 

Classic Skyrim
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/9717

Skyrim SE
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1925/

But to get back on topic, I agree about the Protean.  I also hope that the model they use is much more badass than last time.  Although I did kind of like that it was some kind of bat creature.  I just wish they would have implemented that concept better.

I think it's Classic. BUt I'm far from the vampires, as I said, I'm striggeling with Frostspiders and they are among the easier enemies (well, maybe not that really big one in that one cave)

You're probably very far from the Dawnguard DLC kicking in, true.  But that doesn't mean you won't stumble into a situation where you catch  Sanguinare Vampiris.  That can potentially happen at any time.  At any rate, I highly recommend that mod for when you do find yourself delving into the vampiric of Skrim. 
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on July 02, 2019, 03:02:09 am
You're probably very far from the Dawnguard DLC kicking in, true.  But that doesn't mean you won't stumble into a situation where you catch  Sanguinare Vampiris.  That can potentially happen at any time.  At any rate, I highly recommend that mod for when you do find yourself delving into the vampiric of Skrim.

Yeah, fylimar, vampires are all over the place in Skyrim and you'll come across them just doing random stuff. However, as DarkZephyr says, there are two ways to become a vampire. Getting vampire cooties is lame, but the other way is pretty spiffy. It feels like the difference between being some infected wretch as opposed to being Dracula. XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on July 02, 2019, 06:09:11 am
Thanks for the heads up. I hope, I don't meet a vampire just now though.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on July 03, 2019, 11:06:06 pm
Anyone else missing those weekly videos from Paradox about Bloodlines 2? I'm having withdrawals. D':
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on July 04, 2019, 09:38:27 am
Anyone else missing those weekly videos from Paradox about Bloodlines 2? I'm having withdrawals. D':

You just need to do what I did, and plan to play through Bloodlines 1 for the next few months, then you'll have no shortage of Bloodlines content! :^
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: argikt on July 04, 2019, 10:56:06 am
Anyone else missing those weekly videos from Paradox about Bloodlines 2? I'm having withdrawals. D':

You just need to do what I did, and plan to play through Bloodlines 1 for the next few months, then you'll have no shortage of Bloodlines content! :^

Yes!
And you will have more mods too play soon... like prelude chapter 1, and War Games v3.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on July 04, 2019, 11:23:36 am
Anyone else missing those weekly videos from Paradox about Bloodlines 2? I'm having withdrawals. D':

You just need to do what I did, and plan to play through Bloodlines 1 for the next few months, then you'll have no shortage of Bloodlines content! :^

That's, what I'm doing atm.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on July 04, 2019, 02:29:54 pm
Anyone else missing those weekly videos from Paradox about Bloodlines 2? I'm having withdrawals. D':

You just need to do what I did, and plan to play through Bloodlines 1 for the next few months, then you'll have no shortage of Bloodlines content! :^

Yes!
And you will have more mods too play soon... like prelude chapter 1, and War Games v3.

I played through a couple of times just over a month ago, and mods rarely appeal to me, sadly, with the exception of like content restoration stuff. I'm too anal. =p

I am replaying Redemption currently and bought The Witcher 3 last night in the hopes it'll distract me some, despite my best judgment.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on July 04, 2019, 05:32:58 pm
I played through a couple of times just over a month ago, and mods rarely appeal to me, sadly, with the exception of like content restoration stuff. I'm too anal. =p

I am replaying Redemption currently and bought The Witcher 3 last night in the hopes it'll distract me some, despite my best judgment.

I can definitely see why someone wouldn't want to use mods for the most part. I always do a "clean" run first, no matter how good or recommended the mods are (although I am willing to mess around with them once I got the original experience).

I should probably replay Redemption myself, eventually. There are a few things I don't like about it, but overall I remember it fondly.

I still have to finish The Witcher 1, I really should start focusing more on new RPGs, but it's hard to find the time! XD
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on July 04, 2019, 07:58:07 pm
I played through a couple of times just over a month ago, and mods rarely appeal to me, sadly, with the exception of like content restoration stuff. I'm too anal. =p

I am replaying Redemption currently and bought The Witcher 3 last night in the hopes it'll distract me some, despite my best judgment.

I can definitely see why someone wouldn't want to use mods for the most part. I always do a "clean" run first, no matter how good or recommended the mods are (although I am willing to mess around with them once I got the original experience).

I should probably replay Redemption myself, eventually. There are a few things I don't like about it, but overall I remember it fondly.

I still have to finish The Witcher 1, I really should start focusing more on new RPGs, but it's hard to find the time! XD

I just finished my third playthrough of Redemption a few minutes ago. I love the story. It's the best VtM video game main storyline in existence. However, yes, that game has a TON of issues. I must've killed at least 40 vampires per dungeon in the 14 "dungeons" or so that have vampires. The Malkavian in the game is the most fish-Malk of fish-Malks that I've ever seen and really annoyed me this time around. The characters are the most cliché versions of their clans I've ever seen, even in various amateur tabletop games online, though I will say the Brujah are more akin to True Brujah than Brujah in their personalities, at least from my modest understanding of the original clan qualities (except we don't get the time manipulation discipline).

Being able to diablerize everyone willy-nilly without punishment, the lack of a feeling of the masquerade being something to maintain, a lack of information on the Sabbat (even compared to Bloodlines), and much more are big issues for me in this game. Oh, and my Nosferatu party member had an appearance of 100 by putting some jewelry on...so he's basically physically as appealing as the most attractive celebrity on Earth without using any disciplines to influence what people see. But I digress...still good stuff.

It's my hope that Bloodlines 2 will capture what made Bloodlines 1's lore and setting work so well as opposed to how Redemption handled things, while hopefully making the main storyline better than Bloodlines 1's plot. For me, the side quests in Bloodlines 1 were the best bits of the "story."

As for The Witcher 1, I finished it back when it came out and liked it, but played it again a few years ago and couldn't force myself to play the second act onward. The game felt too much like an MMO to me in terms of the devs using travel time to account for too much of the gameplay for my liking. By that, I mean that towns and relevant quest locations were spread out and required a lot of running with not-a-whole-lot-to-do-in-between. This got super old for me and I can't stand it. Bloodlines 1's succinct hubs that have everything pretty close together are why I love those hubs so much to some extent.

The Witcher 2 just bored me all around, though it was visually nice. I got maybe an hour into the second act, I think? Nothing really drew me in at all. And now I have The Witcher 3 despite currently disliking the first two. I expect to be underwhelmed, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on July 05, 2019, 07:02:12 pm
I never played Redemption and am content now with watching Outstar playthrough. I'm not a big fan of Christoph and that you have to play Brujah, but the story looks kind of nice.
I tried the Witcher 1, but really struggled with combat. I do like Geralt though.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on July 06, 2019, 02:05:35 pm
I never played Redemption and am content now with watching Outstar playthrough. I'm not a big fan of Christoph and that you have to play Brujah, but the story looks kind of nice.
I tried the Witcher 1, but really struggled with combat. I do like Geralt though.

I think he's a pretty swell guy, but I suppose I can't blame someone for having issues with him after he spilt his wickedness upon Anezka's innocent bosom.

I somehow never noticed lines like that until Outstar - the adorable imp that she is - pointed them out. Also, I love her "last time" clips at the start of the videos. It would be fun if she did something like this with Bloodlines 2.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on July 06, 2019, 07:02:28 pm
I never played Redemption and am content now with watching Outstar playthrough. I'm not a big fan of Christoph and that you have to play Brujah, but the story looks kind of nice.
I tried the Witcher 1, but really struggled with combat. I do like Geralt though.

I think he's a pretty swell guy, but I suppose I can't blame someone for having issues with him after he spilt his wickedness upon Anezka's innocent bosom.

I somehow never noticed lines like that until Outstar - the adorable imp that she is - pointed them out. Also, I love her "last time" clips at the start of the videos. It would be fun if she did something like this with Bloodlines 2.

I'm pretty sure, she will do something like that with Bloodlines 2. And that comment was just gold, I couldn't stop laughing
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on July 29, 2019, 11:44:15 am
A new Dev Diary: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dev-diary-2-pillars.1221635/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on August 04, 2019, 07:57:39 pm
While I have no problems with first person, I agree, that if the Gangrels make an appearance, there should be an option for third person then, for the protean discipline.

Tons of people are going to be confused about seeing a vampire turn into a werewolf xD ...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: argikt on August 19, 2019, 05:37:38 pm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hGbEKNV6UxU
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on August 19, 2019, 07:09:05 pm
Tons of people are going to be confused about seeing a vampire turn into a werewolf xD ...

To be honest, I disliked this from the first moment I saw it in Bloodlines! Having vampires turn into wolves is much too close to werewolves in the WOD. But cool new locations in the RTX video!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on August 19, 2019, 08:31:39 pm
New video by Outstar
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on August 20, 2019, 12:33:13 pm
I don't have the time to watch the video right now as I'm on holiday, so who is the guy? Can someone please summarize the video here?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on August 20, 2019, 02:12:00 pm
I don't have the time to watch the video right now as I'm on holiday, so who is the guy? Can someone please summarize the video here?

If you mean the Outstar video, she did speculate about the identity based on the released videos by Paradox and a game review from someone, who was able to play the game from the beginning to the scene, where your character hunts that Nosferatu thinblood.
According to Outstar he is Malkavian (she thinks, he is the guy from the Malk reveal video and I tend to agree, they look similar and even have some similar gestures). He also seems to be an assassin, who was sent after a thinblood, who tried to find out, why tehre was the mass embrace in the first place and who his sire was. You witness the assassin killing the thinblood and then teh assassin comes over to you and tell you, that you are not on his list ... yet.
So basically, the guy seems to be an Malkavian assassin, whom you might meet several times throughout the game. He even might hunt you later on, since you take over the investigation from the murdered thinblood (from the bits of gameplay, we saw)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on August 20, 2019, 05:21:17 pm
He also seems to be an assassin, who was sent after a thinblood, who tried to find out, why tehre was the mass embrace in the first place and who his sire was. You witness the assassin killing the thinblood and then teh assassin comes over to you and tell you, that you are not on his list ... yet.

I can confirm as much from what I have seen but I can't remember the face of the guy to be sure it's the one from the logo. Nevertheless I think her speculations are reasonable.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on August 21, 2019, 05:41:17 pm
Outstar being cute and Bloodlines 2 is the topic, I guess:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jOkiLA3W3NI
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on August 21, 2019, 06:40:44 pm
Outstar being cute and Bloodlines 2 is the topic, I guess:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jOkiLA3W3NI

I just wanted to post that XD. IT's a nice analysis of the newest trailer (the one with the busty red haired women, whom Outsta believed to be Lou Graham)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on August 21, 2019, 07:43:08 pm
New trailer? Link please! I don't think the RTX trailer had any women.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on August 21, 2019, 08:12:12 pm
New trailer? Link please! I don't think the RTX trailer had any women.

Yes, it was the RTX trailer and there was the busty red haired women from one of the other trailers. She is in the first scenes and is also the narrator - here, see for yourself:

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on August 22, 2019, 09:07:12 am
Oh, I didn't see her bust and hair color from behind in the dark :)!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: argikt on September 02, 2019, 10:41:10 am
https://www.gamesradar.com/meet-the-pioneers-the-first-confirmed-faction-in-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on September 03, 2019, 06:02:36 am
Here are Hardsuit Labs and Paradox actually showing and explaining the demo footage. ALSO, we get to see a bit of stealth gameplay in it, too. It's the same stuff we've seen before but with explanations and stealth included. The explanations clear up a bit as well.

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on September 23, 2019, 04:36:51 pm
A video from Outstar about the Baron:

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on September 24, 2019, 02:56:33 am
This is gonna get confusing. I thought The Baron was basically going to be The Anarchs.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on September 24, 2019, 08:36:17 am
This is gonna get confusing. I thought The Baron was basically going to be The Anarchs.

Maybe there will be several Anarch fractions? In the PnP books the Anarchs are much more divided than shown in Bloodlines...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: argikt on September 24, 2019, 10:12:00 am
This is gonna get confusing. I thought The Baron was basically going to be The Anarchs.

Maybe there will be several Anarch fractions? In the PnP books the Anarchs are much more divided than shown in Bloodlines...

Two more factions remain, I suppose one will be the Sabbat, and perhaps the Anarchs will be the other, this will make the difference between the evil Anarchs (baron) and the "good Anarchs" (someone like Nines).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on September 25, 2019, 03:38:16 am
Maybe there will be several Anarch fractions? In the PnP books the Anarchs are much more divided than shown in Bloodlines...

:O ... now that is interesting !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on September 25, 2019, 08:22:40 pm
This is gonna get confusing. I thought The Baron was basically going to be The Anarchs.

Maybe there will be several Anarch fractions? In the PnP books the Anarchs are much more divided than shown in Bloodlines...

Two more factions remain, I suppose one will be the Sabbat, and perhaps the Anarchs will be the other, this will make the difference between the evil Anarchs (baron) and the "good Anarchs" (someone like Nines).
One's definitely going to be the Chantry, don't forget Elif. :vampsmile:

As for the second one, who knows? As far as I can tell, the Sabbat don't really have a presence in V5 so much, but I suppose they make the most sense as a faction, especially in the wider interest of roleplaying...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on September 25, 2019, 09:35:05 pm
I sure hope for Sabbat to make an appearance.

As for the Baron, he could be Anarchs, just not the paladin guy like Nines and his crew. As much as I like the LA Anarchs, I'm open to see another Facette of that group.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on September 25, 2019, 11:23:11 pm
I sure hope for Sabbat to make an appearance.

As for the Baron, he could be Anarchs, just not the paladin guy like Nines and his crew. As much as I like the LA Anarchs, I'm open to see another Facette of that group.

Same here. The first game gave a very one-sided look at the Anarchs.. The other factions didn't fare much better, but the Anarchs looked like they are always "the vampire good guys" Camarilla and Anarch factions can each be pretty horrible, and having one or the other be so squeaky clean isn't great storytelling.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on September 27, 2019, 10:29:12 pm
just not the paladin guy like Nines and his crew.

Nines... a paladin ? PUH-LEASE tell me another one xD ...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on September 28, 2019, 10:37:42 am
just not the paladin guy like Nines and his crew.

Nines... a paladin ? PUH-LEASE tell me another one xD ...

Nines is a righteous guy, who likes to do the right thing and lives by his believes , so I stay by my wording.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on September 29, 2019, 04:35:26 pm
Nines is a righteous guy, who likes to do the right thing and lives by his believes , so I stay by my wording.

I dissagree. Nines was totally full of it. He could never properly argue why the camarilla was so bad to him; he just didn't like having anyone ruling over him.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on September 29, 2019, 08:47:14 pm
Nines is a righteous guy, who likes to do the right thing and lives by his believes , so I stay by my wording.

I dissagree. Nines was totally full of it. He could never properly argue why the camarilla was so bad to him; he just didn't like having anyone ruling over him.

Since when is political debate a necessity for paladins? He fights for what is right, and in Bloodlines 1, LaCroix is too obviously a scumbag weasel.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on September 29, 2019, 08:59:24 pm
Since when is political debate a necessity for paladins? He fights for what is right, and in Bloodlines 1, LaCroix is too obviously a scumbag weasel.

Hey man ! Good to see you back =D !

As for Nines. I don't necessarily need a doctoral thesis on why the anarchs are better than the camarilla but at least I need a clear, succint idea for why we should dump away what laws the camarilla gave kindred society and unfortunately Nines just said nothing besides "It's scheme maaaaan, it goes aaaaaaall the waaaaaay to the top" xD ...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on September 29, 2019, 10:47:19 pm
Since when is political debate a necessity for paladins? He fights for what is right, and in Bloodlines 1, LaCroix is too obviously a scumbag weasel.

Hey man ! Good to see you back =D !

As for Nines. I don't necessarily need a doctoral thesis on why the anarchs are better than the camarilla but at least I need a clear, succint idea for why we should dump away what laws the camarilla gave kindred society and unfortunately Nines just said nothing besides "It's scheme maaaaan, it goes aaaaaaall the waaaaaay to the top" xD ...

Personally I think that's a flaw in the writing. I can see the Anarchs' views there, and the Camarilla is definitely an institution of corruption, but I also think this could have been fleshed out better...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on September 30, 2019, 07:59:10 pm
Since when is political debate a necessity for paladins? He fights for what is right, and in Bloodlines 1, LaCroix is too obviously a scumbag weasel.

Hey man ! Good to see you back =D !

As for Nines. I don't necessarily need a doctoral thesis on why the anarchs are better than the camarilla but at least I need a clear, succint idea for why we should dump away what laws the camarilla gave kindred society and unfortunately Nines just said nothing besides "It's scheme maaaaan, it goes aaaaaaall the waaaaaay to the top" xD ...

Heya. I'm trying to pop in more lately. Things went quiet across the board for a while. I agree with you that Nines' argument is pretty garbage, but I really wish Mitsoda and company had written each side to have its appeal. The only plus to Camarilla is a better apartment. =/
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on October 01, 2019, 01:33:07 am
The only plus to Camarilla is a better apartment. =/

IF you're nice to Lacroix... I had no idea I could get an apartment during my first playthrough !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on October 01, 2019, 04:30:48 am
Since when is political debate a necessity for paladins? He fights for what is right, and in Bloodlines 1, LaCroix is too obviously a scumbag weasel.

Hey man ! Good to see you back =D !

As for Nines. I don't necessarily need a doctoral thesis on why the anarchs are better than the camarilla but at least I need a clear, succinct idea for why we should dump away what laws the camarilla gave kindred society and unfortunately Nines just said nothing besides "It's scheme maaaaan, it goes aaaaaaall the waaaaaay to the top" xD ...

Heya. I'm trying to pop in more lately. Things went quiet across the board for a while. I agree with you that Nines' argument is pretty garbage, but I really wish Mitsoda and company had written each side to have its appeal. The only plus to Camarilla is a better apartment. =/

Do you mean the Chantry or Skyeline? Because if the latter, I always end up Anarch and still manage to get the Skyeline, so...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on October 01, 2019, 06:37:32 am
Since when is political debate a necessity for paladins? He fights for what is right, and in Bloodlines 1, LaCroix is too obviously a scumbag weasel.

Hey man ! Good to see you back =D !

As for Nines. I don't necessarily need a doctoral thesis on why the anarchs are better than the camarilla but at least I need a clear, succinct idea for why we should dump away what laws the camarilla gave kindred society and unfortunately Nines just said nothing besides "It's scheme maaaaan, it goes aaaaaaall the waaaaaay to the top" xD ...

Heya. I'm trying to pop in more lately. Things went quiet across the board for a while. I agree with you that Nines' argument is pretty garbage, but I really wish Mitsoda and company had written each side to have its appeal. The only plus to Camarilla is a better apartment. =/

Do you mean the Chantry or Skyeline? Because if the latter, I always end up Anarch and still manage to get the Skyeline, so...

Ah, I play Tremere so often that I couldn't even recall how much you can do to annoy LaCroix and still get the Skyline Haven.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on October 03, 2019, 11:09:24 pm
Ah, I play Tremere so often that I couldn't even recall how much you can do to annoy LaCroix and still get the Skyline Haven.

Goddamn you DarkProphet, you're gonna make me do ANOTHER Tremere run. Shame on you !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on October 04, 2019, 05:01:16 am
Ah, I play Tremere so often that I couldn't even recall how much you can do to annoy LaCroix and still get the Skyline Haven.

Goddamn you DarkProphet, you're gonna make me do ANOTHER Tremere run. Shame on you !

Tremere are just too damn rad: arguably the best range of powers for versatility under one Discipline group, a Raiders of the Lost Ark ending with Strauss, a unique haven, and the Tremere clothes are pretty badass...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: EeeKitties on October 19, 2019, 09:04:55 pm
Added a few links recently :vampsmile:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on November 12, 2019, 10:23:41 am
Added a few links recently :vampsmile:

What did you add?

Also, thanks for updating the list. :)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on November 13, 2019, 02:13:32 pm
Here is a cool video from PDXCon in Berlin:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on November 13, 2019, 09:45:40 pm
Ooo, that was quite spiffy, Wesp. Thanks for sharing. Since the event was in Germany, did you get to attend and touch the devs/producers?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on November 13, 2019, 10:46:51 pm
Ooo, that was quite spiffy, Wesp. Thanks for sharing. Since the event was in Germany, did you get to attend and touch the devs/producers?

I thought about going but then I couldn't contact a friend of mine in Berlin with whom I wanted to stay and due to no new demo I wasn't going to see anything new anyway...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on November 14, 2019, 12:27:08 am
(https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/11/14/585b22ee7a8542da9314d4897d8f861f-full.jpg)

All of this is soooooooo much bullshit. Bad bad Mitsoda !
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on November 14, 2019, 04:54:40 am
(https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/11/14/585b22ee7a8542da9314d4897d8f861f-full.jpg)

All of this is soooooooo much bullshit. Bad bad Mitsoda !

For some reason your picture isn't showing up for me. I initially quoted this to ask you what you were talking about, but then I saw the link to the pic. I'm not sure if it's on my end or what, but I thought you should know.

I am able to see the pic by following the link, so...


Welp... nevermind. I'm just incompetent...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on November 14, 2019, 11:34:23 pm
Sorry ya didn't get to go, Wesp. After all you've done for Bloodlines 1, they would have seen you and fallen to the floor, prostrate, begging to spend the night servicing you.

(https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/11/14/585b22ee7a8542da9314d4897d8f861f-full.jpg)

All of this is soooooooo much bullshit. Bad bad Mitsoda !

I think the list of dumb questions Cara Ellison asked Mitsoda was pretty great, at least.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on November 15, 2019, 08:00:16 am
I think the list of dumb questions Cara Ellison asked Mitsoda was pretty great, at least.

I like the comparison between Bloodlines, Mass Effect and The Witcher even better :)!

https://i.imgur.com/tfY0wA3.jpg
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on November 15, 2019, 11:27:48 am
I think the list of dumb questions Cara Ellison asked Mitsoda was pretty great, at least.

I like the comparison between Bloodlines, Mass Effect and The Witcher even better :)!

https://i.imgur.com/tfY0wA3.jpg

That's the image I was trying to host :'(

I actually got a little irked by those comparisons since they are a bit inaccurate. I will say however that it was pretty clever to "test" Bloodlines against those two giants in the industry, brings a lot more attention to a game and a franchise that had cult status before the announcement of the sequel.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on November 15, 2019, 01:50:39 pm
I actually got a little irked by those comparisons since they are a bit inaccurate.

Yeah, I don't know about Mass Effect and The Witcher, but in Bloodlines you too end up as the super hero! Still you start off as a nobody pawn to everyone which should be different than playing a famous starship captain or monster hunter...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on November 15, 2019, 03:09:04 pm
Yeah, I don't know about Mass Effect and The Witcher, but in Bloodlines you too end up as the super hero! Still you start off as a nobody pawn to everyone which should be different than playing a famous starship captain or monster hunter...

Arguably you also end up as a pawn ;)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on November 15, 2019, 11:12:53 pm
I think the list of dumb questions Cara Ellison asked Mitsoda was pretty great, at least.

I like the comparison between Bloodlines, Mass Effect and The Witcher even better :)!

https://i.imgur.com/tfY0wA3.jpg

Thank you for posting this, Wesp. I hadn't seen that pic before. Pretty fun.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: EeeKitties on December 15, 2019, 04:16:24 pm
New ARG revealed after Outstar's charity stream! :vampsmile:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on April 16, 2020, 12:55:27 am

Hey y'all! Pretty big Bloodlines 2 news; at least in my opinion. You know the Thinblood Disciplines you pick from at the start of the game (bats, mist, or telekinesis)? Well, the devs have officially announced that we get ALL THREE of the traversal versions of these Disciplines, no matter which one we pick! Here is the proof in this article: https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/dev-diary-10-these-past-months-were-about-side-quests-and-traversal


Sure, it would OP as all hell in an actual pen and paper game, but quite frankly, the dichotomy of choosing a Thinblood power both for traversal and combat would cause a lot of us to never try certain Thinblood Disciplines more than once. Anywho, I thought y'all might be interested by this news.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on April 17, 2020, 03:36:09 am
I'm glad they decided to give us access to all the Thinblood disciplines for traversal, making the specific choice more of a combat specialization.


Sure, this arguably removes some of the replay value - but let's be honest, we're still going to be replaying the game a million times over...


Like the dev diary says too, this approach lets them integrate discipline usage in a much more organic way, instead of giving us choke points where you have a redundant choice of one path only, depending on which discipline you took at character creation. That's something I was actually worried about, watching some of the footage from last year.


I really can't wait for this game, good grief...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on April 17, 2020, 04:18:56 am

Yeah, Narwhal, one traversal option likely gets you to the most quest goals, loot, paths, etc., and that means most everyone would be forced to either pick that Thinblood Discipline or deliberately gimp him-/herself.


By instead having the combat aspects be the thing you focus on with a Thinblood Discipline choice, players can just pay attention to matching what they believe is the best one for their particular clan and/or playstyle. For instance, Nebulation looks best for stealthy characters, while Mentalism looks best for ranged characters (stealing guns and lifting enemies to easily shoot them suspended mid-air), and Chiropteran looks like it might be nice for melee since the bats hurt enemies in a radius around you and deflect incoming damage, etc.


Also, anyone who might "naysay" this decision might want to take into consideration Bloodlines 1's Disciplines. In the pen and paper TTRPG, you do NOT get the first dot in all three Disciplines for free at character creation, so having access to all three first-tier Disciplines at all in Bloodlines 1 was pretty friggin' powerful compared to the tabletop/more "canonical" way of handling things.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: edx on May 07, 2020, 04:26:21 pm
New Trailer


Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm-Streicher on May 07, 2020, 05:17:36 pm
Great new stuff, I mean a new trailer. It looks better but with the confirmation of PS5 and Xbox Series ports and Corona of course I don´t believe that this game will be out this year.

Maybe if we are really lucky it's the rumored Christmas date but right now I doubt that.
In my opinion they should scrap the PS4 and Xbox versions and focus only on PC, PS5 and Xbox Series X.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 07, 2020, 05:33:26 pm
"Come Dance on Your Grave"... maybe not the best tagline in the middle of a health crisis  :rofl:

Great trailer nonetheless, one made with actual gameplay COFF COFF ASSASSIN'S CREED COFF COFF

I do wonder if there's a special meaning regarding the little dance at the end. Maybe it's just the theme of the trailer but it made me think more about "Butcher Malk" (that's what I'll call him now at least).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 07, 2020, 05:54:08 pm
Duuuuuuude. I loved that trailer. So much cool and entertaining stuff. :D
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 08, 2020, 03:34:56 pm
I like Mr. Damp and his 'puppets' - deliciously creepy. Andrei approves.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 08, 2020, 08:00:49 pm

What blows my mind is how many people are commenting on the trailer that the graphics look too dated...and that's the only thing they have to say. That's a fair assessment, but that's the thing I thought the least about during the trailer...except maybe corndogs. I guess some people decide whether they like games or not more by the graphics than by things like story, characters, and the world. I'll never understand it. Just go outside if you want to see modern day cities looking real...


The only time I will pan a game outright due to graphics is something like the original Final Fantasy VII. That game is just fugly as all hell, except in the rare few "movie" parts, and those are just passable. I cannot stand those low polygon models. FFVIII onward looked fine, but oh my gosh, FFVII's character models when running around made me shudder and cringe. I beat the game one time, and that was more than enough.


But I digress.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 08, 2020, 08:16:06 pm
What blows my mind is how many people are commenting on the trailer that the graphics look too dated...and that's the only thing they have to say. That's a fair assessment, but that's the thing I thought the least about during the trailer...except maybe corndogs.
I completely agree. Especially as before this trailer was out, most negative comments were claiming that the game would be too woke! Which is the one thing this trailer pretty much destroyed for me ;). It seems as if some people just always want to criticize something...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm-Streicher on May 08, 2020, 08:41:44 pm

What blows my mind is how many people are commenting on the trailer that the graphics look too dated...and that's the only thing they have to say. That's a fair assessment, but that's the thing I thought the least about during the trailer...except maybe corndogs. I guess some people decide whether they like games or not more by the graphics than by things like story, characters, and the world. I'll never understand it. Just go outside if you want to see modern day cities looking real...
Many people praise the atmosphere and the environment design but you have to unterstand that for many this their first look at Bloodlines 2.They don´t know about this game, its developers or its budget. They should judge what they see. And sorry this isn´t really a story trailer.
An atmosphere trailer which shows of course the games graphics.

Last but not least yeah it was graphic first for some. Why else do have the gamer term graphic whore?

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2020, 05:01:33 am

Yeah, I suppose those're good points, Wilhelm. Hopefully those folks give the game a chance A) because they might love it, and B) because I want this to make a buncha money so I get more WoD games along these lines.  :vampsmile:


Wesp, I'm not convinced that the game won't shoot for lots of wokeness. I'm quite wary. They put up lots of red flags in the original interviews. Unless they were just bullshitting, there's plenty to keep an eye out for. Then again, they might be bullshitting just to make the media all excited. After all, they talked about how they want to respect the mentally ill, and here we have a Malkavian dancing around corpses he's strung up like puppets. I have no problems with it, but I could see some people getting butthurt about it.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 09, 2020, 06:52:34 am
Okay I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous... what the actual fuck do y'all mean by "wokeness"? What is it you're afraid of? Two women kissing? A trans man making an appearance? You getting to pick your character's pronouns (because somehow more choice is a bad thing now)?


Please stop with that bullshit. Because let's be clear, here... it is bullshit. Pure, unfiltered, uncut, uncontaminated bullshit, of the most... fragrant... variety.


If the ability to pick your players' pronouns is such a fucking sin to you, maybe just don't play... and go away.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2020, 07:32:21 am
Okay I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous... what the actual fuck do y'all mean by "wokeness"? What is it you're afraid of? Two women kissing? A trans man making an appearance? You getting to pick your character's pronouns (because somehow more choice is a bad thing now)?


Please stop with that bullshit. Because let's be clear, here... it is bullshit. Pure, unfiltered, uncut, uncontaminated bullshit, of the most... fragrant... variety.


If the ability to pick your players' pronouns is such a fucking sin to you, maybe just don't play... and go away.



You ask what we mean, then you immediately build a strawman argument with a list of things we have not stated, and proceed to make a statement to us to "Please stop with that bullshit," as though we have already responded to you when we have not, going on to define the level of "bullshit" you think our argument which we have not presented is, doing so with vitriol.


Read your own post in which you pretend to want a discussion, judge "our opinions" (i.e. ones you pulled out of your ass without asking us), then suggest we not play a game we've been wanting for over a decade, and go away. Creating strawman arguments for others and telling them maybe they should go away is unethical and intolerant, respectively. You're trying to take the moral high ground and have ended up in a pit of your own digging.



If you decide to start over and not make another sleazy post like that one, then I might be inclined to actually have a discussion, but for now, I'm simply tolerating your presence and taking your post at its apparent value: a flagrant dismissal of differing opinions and intent to drive people off, under the false pretense of wondering what we mean.



In fact, I have a quote from someone that is fitting for how you acted in your vile post. Here it is: "Please stop with that bullshit. Because let's be clear, here... it is bullshit. Pure, unfiltered, uncut, uncontaminated bullshit, of the most... fragrant... variety."
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 09, 2020, 07:55:17 am
Yeah that's nice and all, but that's what the people complaining about "wokeness" are talking about.


So fine. I'm wrong. What is it you actually mean, then?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 09, 2020, 08:54:55 am
DarkProphet already mentions one: "After all, they talked about how they want to respect the mentally ill, and here we have a Malkavian dancing around corpses he's strung up like puppets."
Also Cara Ellison, one of the writers, talked about trigger warnings to avoid having sensitive players seeing things they couldn't handle. And now they put such a horrible scene into the new trailer!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 09, 2020, 12:29:47 pm
I don't know about the trigger warnings - I mean, this is a horror game and the WoD is a grim setting. Just remember the snuff tape mission and Andreis Home (well... both of them actually) - this is stuff for nightmares. In my opinion, if you are sensible, you should not play a horror game - or maybe watch a Let's play before playing to see, if the games will suit you. There are so many games out there to choose from.
As for the Malkavian, Mr.Damp: I have a mental illness myself (anxiety), but I don't feel triggered in any way by Mr. Damp. His behavior can also come from having a low humanity, after all, most Tzimisce don't have mental illnesses, but still do despicable things (referring back to Andreis living home). I would probably be mad (no pun intended), if every Malkavian turns out to be a murderous sociopath, but I highly doubt, that will be the case.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 09, 2020, 12:45:04 pm
I don't know about the trigger warnings - I mean, this is a horror game and the WoD is a grim setting. Just remember the snuff tape mission and Andreis Home (well... both of them actually) - this is stuff for nightmares. In my opinion, if you are sensible, you should not play a horror game - or maybe watch a Let's play before playing to see, if the games will suit you. There are so many games out there to choose from.
Exactly. This is the reason why so many people were confused when Cara Ellison talked about it. Why soften the WoD up for sensitive people? The game ratings are there for a reason. They can always watch or read Twilight if they want sparkling vampires ;)!
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 09, 2020, 01:21:52 pm
I don't know about the trigger warnings - I mean, this is a horror game and the WoD is a grim setting. Just remember the snuff tape mission and Andreis Home (well... both of them actually) - this is stuff for nightmares. In my opinion, if you are sensible, you should not play a horror game - or maybe watch a Let's play before playing to see, if the games will suit you. There are so many games out there to choose from.
Exactly. This is the reason why so many people were confused when Cara Ellison talked about it. Why soften the WoD up for sensitive people? The game ratings are there for a reason. They can always watch or read Twilight if they want sparkling vampires ;)!
Yes - or Anne Rice  :cometome: . No, seriously - I never have heard that a Resident Evil game (for example) had to give out trigger warnings before quests (and I would really have appreciated it before meeting Black Tiger ... kidding of course) and they are dealing with very disturbing stuff too. I think, it isn't too much to ask people to get some informations about a game before buying it. I'm not sure about some games either, so I watch playthroughs, read critics and then decide. I don't know, how they handle the trigger warnings - if they give a general warning at the start of the game, it would be ok for me, but if a trigger waring pops up with every quest, that would be immersion breaking (and tbh: very spoilery). I know, people can be really dumb (there is a reason for warnings of hot content on coffee cups), but is it really too much to ask people to inform themselves about the WoD before diving into it?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2020, 02:22:15 pm
*cracks knuckles* Alright boyz and gurls... let's tango.

I can agree that it's a pretty edgy move to include a snuff tape quest in a videogame. Snuff tapes in real life are probably some of the most cruel and horrific pieces of content one can ever be fortunate not to come across; we are lucky that most of them are fake, and it's quite a horrid thing that some of them are even real at all. So it was a bit scary when you found such a thing in a videogame, it certainly served its purpose in both the story and the gameplay.

Was it likely to be emotionally damaging to the audience ? Absolutely not.

Why ? Because what we see in the snuff tape is not actual human violence. We just see some cartoonish creatures chasing down a woman and then "eating her". That is not likely to remind anyone about an instance of violence or sexual abuse that ever happened in their entire lives because nobody is killed by creatures or monsters.

IF, however, such a thing were to happen in Bloodlines 2 (for example: a quest where a thinblood is on the run after committing rape) then it is reasonable to assume that a person might be emotionally hurt from the experience and thus it is sensible to warn them of such a thing. We're not just talking about ugly walking heads now, we're talking about rape.

What would be the mistake here ? I think we all agree it would be to receive a trigger warning RIGHT before the quests with sensitive content begin. Would there be a problem however, with a letter from the developers before, or after the character creator, about the nature of the content depicted in the story ? I think not.
Thus to me, trigger warnings are ok... IF properly placed. And why is the ratings system not enough ? Because it's never worked, it's too vague and it's not really its function; its there to warn parents and guardians with minors under their care, not victims of violence or abuse.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 09, 2020, 02:46:16 pm
As I said, a general warning is OK, but I don't want a warning before a quest. I like to be surprised. And I did find the snuff quest horrifying, yes Andrei video was about his ghouls (who were humans and vampires before), supernatural creatures, but while chasing down the video, you did come across a 'rel' snuff movie company, so that might have triggered someone. I really don't care for myself. If I find a game, movie or book too disturbing, I just stop and put them aside. I know, it might be worse for people, who had real life bad experiences, but I think for them, a general warning about graphic and/or sexual violence should be enough, I guess. And as I said, there is always the possibility of waiting for a critic or watch a Let's Play to get a feeling for the general tone.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2020, 03:53:25 pm
As I said, a general warning is OK, but I don't want a warning before a quest.

I think we all agree that none of us wants that, but even a general warning is still a trigger warning to some extent. In the end it's purpose is to protect people from events in the story that might trigger feelings or emotions that are associated with deeply hurtful experiences. This is very likely not big of an issue really, it's more likely that the words "trigger warning" have been way too maligned by the internet community.
I really don't care for myself. If I find a game, movie or book too disturbing, I just stop and put them aside. I know, it might be worse for people, who had real life bad experiences, but I think for them, a general warning about graphic and/or sexual violence should be enough, I guess.
I agree on that end, but there's a difference between scary imagery and a trigger for a traumatic event.


I remember when I was watching "A Serbian Film" and I saw the "baby scene". It was probably the first time I needed to stop a movie because of how fucked up what I saw was; it was probably the most disturbing scene I had ever seen in a movie up to that point. I wasn't hurt however, nor was I reminded of any bad experience I'd previously had, and there is a key difference. IF SOMEHOW we got trigger warnings before quests, I would certainly be a little mad because as you've all said, it takes away from the surprise and the immersion that the game provides. It's an unlikely event though, as the trailer recently demonstrated.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wesp5 on May 09, 2020, 04:12:23 pm
I agree on that end, but there's a difference between scary imagery and a trigger for a traumatic event.
In that case don't give me trigger warnings and don't get me realistic traumatic events as well. The WoD is about supernatural stuff, so just give us absurd and dark stuff like in the trailer that shouldn't realistically trigger anybody...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2020, 04:30:02 pm
In that case don't give me trigger warnings and don't get me realistic traumatic events as well. The WoD is about supernatural stuff, so just give us absurd and dark stuff like in the trailer that shouldn't realistically trigger anybody...


That could also be a solution, even though I'd wonder how the story would reference real horror and cruelty with that approach.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 09, 2020, 05:15:37 pm
Okay. Trigger Warnings.

Full disclosure: I'm someone who supports and encourages the use of things like trigger warnings, content warnings, etc in general. I think they're incredibly important in giving people more information about what they're getting into, and whether or not they want to continue with whatever it is. A soldier suffering from PTSD is definitely going to appreciate a trigger warning for anything that could potentially trigger her war-based PTSD...

And it makes me laugh when people complain about them when we already get them all the time to begin with and have for several decades already...

After all, what is a rating statement if not exactly that:

-Rated R for (reasons here)
-Rated TV-MA for (reasons here)
-Rated M for (reasons here)

Those are trigger warnings. Like... that's the definition.

I genuinely do not believe that they're going to throw trigger warnings in the middle of the game, but if they do, there'd be ways to do it without breaking immersion, like lines of dialog from an NPC about how dangerous someone or something is. And before anyone tries to make fun of that, things like that are done all the time. Hell... I'm playing Breath of the Wild on Switch and NPCs have noted the danger of Link's quests several times. The game isn't stopped; it's just a natural progression of the written dialog.

For example (warning: BotW spoilers)... there's a character who wants to see gear from the Hyrule Royal Guard in the game. She knows she can't, though, because the gear is only found in Hyrule Castle, which, in BotW, is in ruins and haunted by the big bad Ganon and several other in-game enemies.

Said NPC straight up says how dangerous the castle is. It doesn't stop the game for an on-screen written trigger warning; it's just part of the natural dialog of the game. Hell... you wouldn't notice it if you were only half paying attention. Yet it's right there, in the game, disguised as basic dialog from an NPC.

And yes, it absolutely counts as a warning, as that's literally what it is. And dialog like that is perfectly normal in games. (Spoiler warnings, BTW, are also in the same category.)

It's in movies, as well. Did anyone see Blade 2? Nyssa takes Blade to a vampire club/safehouse, and literally warns him that he'll see things like feeding before they go in. It's literally a trigger warning, by definition, but was slipped by viewers as a piece of dialog one character says to another. And I don't recall anyone ever complaining about it.

Bloodlines 2 ratings statement will serve as the trigger warning to viewers. If they put them in the game, I believe very much in the ability of the writers (especially Brian Mitsoda) to easily and artfully disguise them in the dialog in ways you'll find impossible to complain about. They won't break the immersion because they won't pause the game any more than dialog usually does. Even simple things like "be careful; he's dangerous" is entirely natural dialog that also fits the definition of a trigger/content warning, and I'm sure we'll see at least something like that once...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on May 09, 2020, 05:51:52 pm
The thing is, I think people hear the term "trigger warnings" and expect them to be applied as they sometimes are in YouTube video essays and whatnot - like, given right before the sensitive topic is brought up.

This, obviously, does not work in a video game context, at least not without breaking immersion. For this reason, it is safe to assume they would never put trigger warnings in front of quests, so it's a silly thing to be worried about...

I could see them placing a content warning at the beginning of the game though, like, right before the main menu, in the same way that (mostly older) horror games have done in the past.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2020, 06:28:25 pm
Highwayman, I would contend that not giving trigger warnings for the snuff film because it's a bunch of misshapen monsters is actually worse than not giving trigger warnings for a rape. The point you made is that it's monsters and it's snuff, and the player wasn't killed IRL before, so it wouldn't trigger them. What about anyone who has been sent a video of a loved one being executed without a trial in a foreign country? What about anyone who saw or heard about his or her mom, sister, aunt, cousin, niece (or the male variants of these), etc. actually being murdered in a snuff film in the past? Just because the thing hasn't happened to the player personally, doesn't mean it can't be "triggering."

As I said, I would say it's even worse, because for the atheistic players - of whom I am sure there will be a fair number - rape can be overcome as a "mind over matter" situation (though difficult), since it is a terrible experience, but one that is still possible of being "beaten" by the victim's mind...whereas a loved one dying in a snuff film has the loved one still dead. You can try to "get over it," but someone dying is still someone dying. That person - to an atheist - is gone forever, and you will never have another conversation with that loved one again in reality.

Also, it would be too long of a trigger warning before a game to list all of the possible triggers. Actually think of every single thing that could "trigger" someone in Bloodlines 1, whether you agree with the triggers or not, and imagine how long that list would be. It would be an ocean of words and completely out of context.




Nate, as for what I mean, I actually would like to directly address one of the things you brought up: choosing pronouns. Yes, that actually is a bad thing, in my opinion. Why? Oh, not for any political, religious, or other reason one might expect, but because there are various situations in Bloodlines 1 where choosing to be male or female makes a big difference in dialog for players, making each playthrough more interesting. For example, if you talk to Mercurio about Jeanette as a male character, he lewdly proclaims "Jeanette's got a body built for bedrooms." However, if you're playing a female character, Mercurio is clearly uncomfortable talking about Jeanette in that way around you, and he begrudgingly tells you about it after a little dialog. If you let the player choose from a dozen or so pronouns, that scene can't happen like that.

Also, Jeanette herself greets the player and it is an energetic, aggressively teasing intro, with "You smell new, little boy," or "You smell new, little girl," and I'm sure that's a very memorable line for players of both sexes (including "like fabric softener dew on freshly mowed astroturf," that comes next =p). If everyone can be "zi" or whatever pronouns they choose, lines like "You smell new little boy/girl" won't exist in Bloodlines 2 since neither will apply. Just saying "You smell new, like fabric softener dew..." does not sufficiently encapsulate Jeanette's sucker-punch of an aggressive tease right off the bat by calling the player "little boy" or "little girl." It just establishes that she's weird instead, thus completely changing the scene. Could it have been written another way to pull it off well? Perhaps, but the more words that she's "forbidden" from saying, the less teasing things can be. They can't possibly afford to pay the voice actors/actresses to do the plethora of different pronouns of dialog lines that would be necessary to deal with this situation, so instead we are going to get replies that will be the same across all playthroughs as it pertains to your sex/gender. So in truth, by giving "more options," we get less outcomes.

If one were to say "But Mercurio is being sexist!" I would say "Yes, and having him be super politically correct in the early 2000s despite being about 50 years old while working for a criminal organization of immortals nightly would likely leave him not caring about political correctness and likely clinging to some of the older trappings of sex/gender roles and the like." In his formative years, the overwhelming majority of females were likely unsettled or insulted hearing such things from him, while the overwhelming majority of males were likely not outright upset by him saying things like that back in the day." It doesn't mean I approve of or disapprove of Mercurio. It means he's a well-made character and not a device made as a real-world political activism mouthpiece.

Fat Larry has some similarities, referring to a male player character as "playa" and treating him differently from a female player character, whom he calls "baby girl" since he's a flirty, quirky guy who likes the ladies a whole lot. In game mechanics, he's nothing more than a shop that gives you a brief, minor sidequest with no supernatural ties/lore, but Fat Larry's dialog differences between males and females make him one of those experiences that really sticks out between different playthroughs based on your sex/gender selection. That can't happen with Bloodlines 2 because of the pronoun selection since the non-male/non-female choices would require a ton of extra recorded lines.

Also, the pronoun selection is technically pointless except in quest logs and e-mails/texts. Why? As I just said, there's no way they can afford to cover a bunch of different pronouns in the dialog. Just look at Fallout 4 with Cogsworth and saying the player's name. He's the only character who does it. It was done to impress players, but it's purely a one-off gimmick that was too expensive to pay various other characters to do it as well, or we would've had that for the other characters, too. Heck, Bethesda had to have far more leeway on budgeting for Fallout 4 than Hardsuit Labs does for Bloodlines 2.

While I hope they had enough money to pay for male, female, and "other" (i.e. three total versions of sex/gender-relevant lines) from voice actors and actresses so that players choosing male and female can get some flavor from their choices, I'm not holding my breath that they'll have the money for it or risk the political "cancel culture" fallout of doing so.

Just imagine if male and female characters get vivid lines specific to each, while the pronoun choices other than "he" and "she" lose out on all of those lines. The "games journalists" will write hit pieces saying that the game does the LGBTQ+ community dirty and how that Hardsuit Labs and/or Paradox clearly aren't "allies" and that they're favoring "cis" folks, and thus are transphobic. This isn't a stretch. Political correctness stories come out all the time crapping on creators who try to be "inclusive" but didn't serve the journalist's political agenda sufficiently to his or her satisfaction.


Now I'm delving into the "woke" aspect a bit, as to what I was referring to before. So, continuing from the above paragraph, let's look at an example. Have you heard about the Borderlands 3 Guns, Love, & Tentacles DLC? I'm sure Gearbox had nothing but good (and profitable) intent when they decided "Hey, let's make an H.P. Lovecraftian planet with silly, creepy quests, and the entire mission is to help two likable gay men in love get married. Welp, apparently this dead H.P. Lovecraft guy was a racist and a homophobe. A journalist from GameSpot then took it upon himself ( https://www.gamespot.com/articles/borderlands-3-guns-love-and-tentacles-dlc-hand-wav/1100-6475340/ (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/borderlands-3-guns-love-and-tentacles-dlc-hand-wav/1100-6475340/) ) to publicly defecate on Gearbox's "progressive" DLC by implying that Gearbox needed to somehow mock H.P. Lovecraft's racism and homophobia, and that since it didn't do that, Gearbox totally failed and the DLC is "problematic." He also gripes about the villain claiming the gay characters' love is lesser than the love between herself and her husband, but um...SHE IS THE VILLAIN. She's supposed to be evil and the object of the player's frustration. Also, she doesn't say it's because their gay or make any such insinuations.

This also happened when journalists got epic hard-ons about Far Cry 5, wanting it to be all about real-world political messages when that's not what Far Cry 1, 3, or 4 were really about (I hated 2 and didn't finish it). This asshole ( https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176308/far-cry-5-review-xbox-ps4-pc (https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176308/far-cry-5-review-xbox-ps4-pc) ) is clearly butt-hurt that the game doesn't make the villains be racists to make social commentary about White Nationalists, when there's no evidence that the villains were ever supposed to be racists or White Nationalists. He admits the game makes political one-liners dissing Trump and such, but it is "a game for cowards" (his words) as it didn't go the distance and become a piece of political activism for the journalist's agenda. So the developers put a couple of pro-Left jokes in the game, and journalists call their game "a game for cowards."

Here's another prick ( https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/27/17165252/far-cry-5-story-characters (https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/27/17165252/far-cry-5-story-characters) ) who knocks on Far Cry 5 because it doesn't take up the cause for the political agenda he wants it to. There is a phrase that's been coined: "the Left eat their own." People do something "progressive," but it's just not progressive enough, according to some jackasses, and those jackasses then proceed to put out publications attempting to shame the developers for having the gall to do something in favor of the Left...but not take it far enough to stick it to the opposition.

I don't want to see Hardsuit Labs' writers put out something A) not woke enough that gets them shamed into oblivion to the point that it hurts their sales, or B) so woke that they "get woke, go broke" because the game ends up being such a piece of political propaganda/activism that it's no longer an attempt at a good game, but focuses the majority of its efforts on "owning the deplorables."


Given the cool trailers, Option A seems more likely because Hardsuit Labs gave a rather PC interview about choosing pronouns, "punching up, not down," etc., so the journalists might be itching to give this game the Left-Wing sniff test, as it were, writing articles in the most well-known gaming publications sullying the game for having the "audacity" to include pronouns and a couple of Trump jokes, but not going far enough and making things about race, transphobia in America, and the mentally ill not being represented just right. Lacking the clout and prior brand recognition of Gearbox or Ubisoft, Hardsuit Labs will have the misfortune of people buying into bullshit article headlines and making unfair judgments about the company that might hurt stock prices, game sales, and influence the writing in future games, etc.

Of course, I think the ultimate conclusion is that people shouldn't bother listening to the hard-reaching, bitter ramblings of games journalists trying to find something to bitch about when a developer actually did something progressive and the journalist should "take his/her win and walk away." Nothing's generally ever good enough for them unless it goes so far that it seems as though it may repel the "deplorables," because these folks don't want everyone to get along. They don't want minds changed. They don't want reasonable discussions. They want in-your-face fuck-you-if-you-disagree-with-us presentations lacking any subtlety and for games to be real-world political activism first; and maybe fun if that's still possible.

I play games to visit an alternate reality where vampire politics are the only politics that matter, where all human politics are largely an afterthought, and I can be faced with murder/life-saving decisions and temptations in a cool power fantasy of mystical beings interacting with others in a cool setting. Being preached at and very unsubtly told by a game's hack writers that I am a bad person because I disagree with their politics is not why I play games. Unless the player's real-world politics/beliefs are to kill people who try to mind their own business without not hurting other humans, then I see no reason to openly try to insult and villainize the player.


Similarly, I wouldn't want a developer on the Right to try to shame and push away people on the Left who play their games. We're here to have fun someplace where real-world politics aren't a big deal. Imagine if you were playing a game and suddenly the characters start talking about abortion in a pro-life angle, and anyone with pro-choice arguments is portrayed as an idiot or a villain, and the player has to support pro-life decisions in the game and it's obvious that's the only right answer per the writing and all else is belittled. Same with pro-gun arguments. Nationalism arguments. Arguments in support of building "the wall." Pro-religion arguments. Arguments of the inferiority and superiority of the values inculcated by certain cultures in America. The list goes on.


It would be pretty repulsive stuff to someone on the Left side of the aisle, even if the person isn't being overly sensitive, as the writers are taking what was supposed to be a fun escape from reality into a world of vampires, and turning it into a preachy, heavy-handed tirade making those players legitimately feel unwanted and hated by the world they're being immersed in. This is not how you change minds. This is not how you make people feel wanted or even tolerated. This is how you piss people off and get them to stop buying your games and further entrench themselves in the opinions you oppose, simply out of sheer spite of the bastards who had the nerve to take a dump in their happy place (video games).


If you want to see what happens when a writer/creator goes too far to the "woke side," go to YouTube and search for "Bit trailer." It's a new trailer (just a few days old) for a vampire movie, and it goes out of its way to denigrate males. Could you imagine a trailer like this with all male vampires talking like this about females? Imagine the backlash from the Left. Also, the protagonist is a trans woman. Not really part of my argument, but I'm sure it scores all kinds of points for the writer/director/producer folks.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on May 09, 2020, 07:44:39 pm
Oh, good grief.

Who's saying that the pronoun choice won't affect dialogue, suddenly? If you've chosen she/her pronouns, then doubtless the NPCs will treat you as feminine, and vice versa.

(based on the perfectly realistic assumption that if you've chosen she/her pronouns for them, you will want your character to be treated as feminine)

Besides, there are plenty of ways to write great dialogue without being gender-specific - talk about shitting on Brian Mitsoda's craft, to imply otherwise.

I do think a certain subset of people will be very upset, though, to find out that you can make a fairly masculine-looking character with she/her pronouns that will be treated as feminine by NPCs...

Spoiler alert, those people will most likely not be on the "progressive" side of the political spectrum either. They're going to be the real problem, in the end - not some desperate Kotaku writer looking for clicks.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2020, 07:49:01 pm
Oh, good grief.


Who's saying that the pronoun choice will affect dialogue? If you've chosen she/her pronouns, then doubtless the NPCs will treat you as feminine, and vice versa.


(based on the perfectly realistic assumption that if you've chosen she/her pronouns for them, you will want your character to be treated as feminine)


Besides, there are plenty of ways to write great dialogue without being gender-specific - talk about shitting on Brian Mitsoda's craft, to imply otherwise.


I do think a certain subset of people will be very upset, though, to find out that you can make a fairly masculine-looking character with she/her pronouns that will be treated as feminine by NPCs...



This would require at LEAST three audio tracks for each character differentiating between the sexes. As I stated, that would be quite expensive, and would get them in hot water with the media if the dialogue pertaining to males and females is more substantial than that pertaining to "other." This isn't a text-based game where you can just swap in "he," "she," "zi," "they," etc. because the character would have to say it.


Where are you proposing they get the money to do that while simultaneously risking an upheaval from the media for not giving as much special dialogue to trans/nonbinary folks?
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on May 09, 2020, 08:21:52 pm
This nonsense about "the media" getting upset with Hardsuit Labs is a bad-faith argument, let's be clear about that first of all.

Nobody is going to be upset with Hardsuit Labs for being inclusive, because the bar for inclusivity is practically underground.

Other than the people who feel threatened by inclusivity, of course - but they're not going to complain for the same reason you're suggesting, are they now?

As for the amount of variable dialogue - the first game boasted a metric fuckton of it, on a much smaller budget than what they've got to work with for this sequel, so I doubt that's going to be an issue.

Consider this, as well:

In dialogue or any other type of correspondence, NPCs are only rarely going to refer to your character in the third person.

I actually can't think of a single instance in the first game where they did so, at all - even when they were talking amongst themselves, the protagonist was consistently referred to as "the fledgling" by NPCs.

They haven't confirmed anything either way, but I reckon we'll get to pick between he/she/they for pronouns, and they might redress the choice of sex (determining how NPCs perceive you) as the character simply being masculine or feminine in overall appearance.

I think the only practical difference it will make, is if the character gets to assert themselves in a gendered way (the female protagonist of the first game proclaiming that she's a "badass bitch" comes to mind), and maybe a couple of NPCs will have reactions to that.

Other than that, it's a minor vanity choice - one optional factor of roleplaying immersion among others. You don't have to engage with it, and I think it's unfair to presume that it will affect the quality of the game in any meaningful way, just because it's there.

(again, you would do well to remember that a majority of the dialogue in the original game was non-gendered, and written excellently despite that - and if this sequel didn't expressly let you choose your character's pronouns, yet still referred to the PC in non-gendered ways, do you really think we'd be talking about that?)

In a way, I think it's a shame they had to make a point out of this inclusivity, because it has invited scrutiny that could've been so easily avoided...
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2020, 08:49:30 pm
This nonsense about "the media" getting upset with Hardsuit Labs is a bad-faith argument, let's be clear about that first of all.

Nobody is going to be upset with Hardsuit Labs for being inclusive, because the bar for inclusivity is practically underground.


Other than the people who feel threatened by inclusivity, of course - but they're not going to complain for the same reason you're suggesting, are they now?


I've already provided evidence in my earlier post from just a few weeks back (the Borderlands 3 DLC article) of the media dunking on Gearbox because it made a gay wedding DLC that didn't take on the journalist's political agenda by mocking the writer whose work it pardodies/homages. So no, the inclusivity won't be the problem according to the media. It will be whatever random political agenda some journalist supports that he or she decides to say Bloodlines 2 should have championed but didn't.



Quote
As for the amount of variable dialogue - the first game boasted a metric fuckton of it, on a much smaller budget than what they've got to work with for this sequel, so I doubt that's going to be an issue.



While Bloodlines 1 may have had a smaller budget, Bloodlines 2 looks just as complex and they no doubt have a small team working on DLC which costs money as well. Otherwise, it would take a year or two to make the werewolf-related DLC. Hey, now perhaps the money they'll save from developing Nosferatu and Gangrel for launch can be used to help scare up some cash for more dialog, but I don't know. I feel for people who are going to be angry that those aren't in the game at launch, but I just don't like Gangrel in general, and hated playing Nosferatu in Bloodlines 1, so I'm not too upset about that delay. But I digress. Unless we know the costs (which we don't), we can't really say if they have enough money or not. It's safe to assume, though, that if they're spending as much as they're willing to spend and have the game (hopefully) turn out profitable, that they will try to spend that money as best they can to put out a good product.


With that in mind, if the company is allocating all of its expenditures to make the best game they can and they might say "Hmm, making male, female, and 'other' dialog variants is going to cost an arm and a leg. Let's just make all of them generic with no sex mentioned and spend the money saved elsewhere." That's completely reasonable. I wouldn't like it, but it's a reasonable conclusion. Having just male and female for some costs a fair bit more, but having to add one more more beyond that to deal with "they, zi, etc." has to add up or developers would just do that to score brownie points with games journalists.


Quote
Consider this, as well:

In dialogue or any other type of correspondence, NPCs are only rarely going to refer to your character in the third person.

I actually can't think of a single instance in the first game where they did so, at all - even when they were talking amongst themselves, the protagonist was consistently referred to as "the fledgling" by NPCs.

They haven't confirmed anything either way, but I reckon we'll get to pick between he/she/they for pronouns, and they might redress the choice of sex (determining how NPCs perceive you) as the character simply being masculine or feminine.



Yeah, most characters didn't talk about you to others in the third person, but when they talk to your character, some might say like "You look like a guy who..." and things like that, which would either require a bunch of different recordings when dealing with a bunch of different pronouns. While I agree with you that NPCs referring to you by the sex you look to be is a great option from a reasonable perspective, from a social justice perspective, that's heresy. You know...the whole "Did you just assume my gender?!!?!?  :angry: " trope. That's a massive trigger for a microcosm of people who are incredibly loud who have the media's ear.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 09, 2020, 09:17:02 pm
All right... I don't know what the hell's wrong with the quote function here, but this is meant to be a response to Dark Prophet...

Quote
Nate, as for what I mean, I actually would like to directly address one of the things you brought up: choosing pronouns. Yes, that actually is a bad thing, in my opinion. Why? Oh, not for any political, religious, or other reason one might expect, but because there are various situations in Bloodlines 1 where choosing to be male or female makes a big difference in dialog for players, making each playthrough more interesting. For example, if you talk to Mercurio about Jeanette as a male character, he lewdly proclaims "Jeanette's got a body built for bedrooms." However, if you're playing a female character, Mercurio is clearly uncomfortable talking about Jeanette in that way around you, and he begrudgingly tells you about it after a little dialog. If you let the player choose from a dozen or so pronouns, that scene can't happen like that.

Also, Jeanette herself greets the player and it is an energetic, aggressively teasing intro, with "You smell new, little boy," or "You smell new, little girl," and I'm sure that's a very memorable line for players of both sexes (including "like fabric softener dew on freshly mowed astroturf," that comes next =p). If everyone can be "zi" or whatever pronouns they choose, lines like "You smell new little boy/girl" won't exist in Bloodlines 2 since neither will apply. Just saying "You smell new, like fabric softener dew..." does not sufficiently encapsulate Jeanette's sucker-punch of an aggressive tease right off the bat by calling the player "little boy" or "little girl." It just establishes that she's weird instead, thus completely changing the scene. Could it have been written another way to pull it off well? Perhaps, but the more words that she's "forbidden" from saying, the less teasing things can be. They can't possibly afford to pay the voice actors/actresses to do the plethora of different pronouns of dialog lines that would be necessary to deal with this situation, so instead we are going to get replies that will be the same across all playthroughs as it pertains to your sex/gender. So in truth, by giving "more options," we get less outcomes.

If one were to say "But Mercurio is being sexist!" I would say "Yes, and having him be super politically correct in the early 2000s despite being about 50 years old while working for a criminal organization of immortals nightly would likely leave him not caring about political correctness and likely clinging to some of the older trappings of sex/gender roles and the like." In his formative years, the overwhelming majority of females were likely unsettled or insulted hearing such things from him, while the overwhelming majority of males were likely not outright upset by him saying things like that back in the day." It doesn't mean I approve of or disapprove of Mercurio. It means he's a well-made character and not a device made as a real-world political activism mouthpiece.

Fat Larry has some similarities, referring to a male player character as "playa" and treating him differently from a female player character, whom he calls "baby girl" since he's a flirty, quirky guy who likes the ladies a whole lot. In game mechanics, he's nothing more than a shop that gives you a brief, minor sidequest with no supernatural ties/lore, but Fat Larry's dialog differences between males and females make him one of those experiences that really sticks out between different playthroughs based on your sex/gender selection. That can't happen with Bloodlines 2 because of the pronoun selection since the non-male/non-female choices would require a ton of extra recorded lines.

Also, the pronoun selection is technically pointless except in quest logs and e-mails/texts. Why? As I just said, there's no way they can afford to cover a bunch of different pronouns in the dialog. Just look at Fallout 4 with Cogsworth and saying the player's name. He's the only character who does it. It was done to impress players, but it's purely a one-off gimmick that was too expensive to pay various other characters to do it as well, or we would've had that for the other characters, too. Heck, Bethesda had to have far more leeway on budgeting for Fallout 4 than Hardsuit Labs does for Bloodlines 2.

While I hope they had enough money to pay for male, female, and "other" (i.e. three total versions of sex/gender-relevant lines) from voice actors and actresses so that players choosing male and female can get some flavor from their choices, I'm not holding my breath that they'll have the money for it or risk the political "cancel culture" fallout of doing so.

Just imagine if male and female characters get vivid lines specific to each, while the pronoun choices other than "he" and "she" lose out on all of those lines. The "games journalists" will write hit pieces saying that the game does the LGBTQ+ community dirty and how that Hardsuit Labs and/or Paradox clearly aren't "allies" and that they're favoring "cis" folks, and thus are transphobic. This isn't a stretch. Political correctness stories come out all the time crapping on creators who try to be "inclusive" but didn't serve the journalist's political agenda sufficiently to his or her satisfaction.

I'm quoting all of this because my reply is to the whole thing.

I think you're underestimating the writing abilities of Brian Mitsoda. I also think you're unfairly trying to pigeon-hole 2 into the world of 1. I have said time and again that I do not want 2 to resemble 1 all that much. 1 is a product of its time, taking place in 2004. In fact, one could argue that it's slightly behind its time, because it takes place in 2004 yet resembles late-90s goth.

2 is supposed to take place much later in the early part of the 21st century... namely, closer to today. If the game is going to actually use the world it claims to use [that is, a twisted version of actual reality], it needs to resemble today... not 2004 or the late 90s.

1 was, in fact, very political. There's no way the story line about the Anarchs against the Camarilla wasn't political commentary on capitalism and government verses individual rights. Granted, you can choose what side to support, but the game wants you to see the Anarchs as the "good guys"... at least Nines and Damsel, if no one else... and Prince LaCroix, the power-hungry, authoritarian-wannabe Capitalist as the villain (even though you can absolutely join him). I would argue that 1 has a very left-wing bent to it, especially in its exploration of power, governments, and wealth. It's shallow, to be fair, but it has to be for players to choose where to side. But the consequences for your choices are obvious...

If you choose LaCroix, you die. If you choose the Kuei Jin, you die. If you choose the Camarilla, you remain a stooge while Max Strauss takes power. But if you choose the Anarchs... that's the closest the game has to a happy ending. You not only survive, but you get to walk away.

If you choose to play for yourself, but choose to open the casket in an attempt to amass power for yourself, you die. But if you choose to walk away, you live... again something resembling a "happy" ending.

The game wants you to sympathize with the Anarch view. That's pretty damn political.

But that was also the politics of the time. These days, people are coming to the realization that identity politics (not the Liberal Weaponization of Identity, which is what those links you provided are showcasing... they are different things) are an incredibly important part of the political dialog these days. Like politics in general, identity politics informs our entire lives. In the US, for example, white supremacy and patriarchy are major talking points, even moreso now that we have proud, open Nazis marching in our streets chanting shit like "Jews Will Not Replace us". We also have cops, mostly white, murdering black people and getting away with it. Trans people, especially black trans women, are being murdered and these cases aren't even being investigated. Quite literally, the United States is facing an identity crisis akin to Germany post WWI and pre WWII. Add #MeToo to that, which was yet another attempt to move the societal pendulum from "fuck victims; they're all liars and deserve to be harassed, run out of town, and have their homes burned down for ruining the precious reputations of the men they accused (and then proved, in a court of law) of raping them" to "you know... maybe we should actually take these accusations seriously and investigate them before deciding whether or not the victim is a horrible, terrible, no good, very bad liar".

(And for the record, I'm not suggesting that these discussions can't be taken way too far... proud SJW that I am, the whole "manspreading" conversation made me roll my eyes so much I was afraid they'd get stuck staring at my brain. Yes, it's fucking annoying when someone takes up more than one seat on crowded public transport, and it was easily shown that men tended to do it more than women did [and there are several reasons for that], but it simply wasn't the big deal that some places, like Huffington Post [a bastion not of Identity Politics, but of the Liberal Weaponization of Identity], tried to make it.)

Now, I keep separating Identity Politics from the Liberal Weaponization of Identity. To give an example of what I mean... Identity Politics is, as the name makes clear, the politics of identity. We all operate under it, and no one, not even you, are immune to it. Fair or not, our identities inform the way we interact with societies. In the US, for example, as someone who was born a Jew, I am utterly terrified of the rise in Nazism here. I can actually understand why black people in the US don't trust the police, given how often the police terrorize black people here. The pay gap is a proven fact for the US (I don't know about it in other countries). Women are demonstrably paid less for the exact same job even after you account for all other variables (in other words, if you take a woman and a man with identical qualifications for the job, working in the same company, doing the same job, for the exact same amount of time, she will be making less than him). And once you introduce identities like race and gender, that gets even worse (with black trans women experiencing the largest gap).

The Liberal Weaponization of Identity, on the other hand, is, basically, the effort by the wealthy elite to keep us, the workers, at each other's throats so we don't come together and realize that they, in fact, are our collective enemy. This looks a lot like, for example, Bill Maher scoffing at the idea that a woman can rape a man, or a boy, while getting angry over the reverse (it's good to get angry at rape, but to insist that women cannot rape men is disgusting and hypocritical). Another perfect example is that horrible Pepsi ad that shows people protesting nothing until that Kardashian (whoever it is) gives a cop a Pepsi and suddenly there's world peace; not only is it just a bad commercial, but it's a shitty message, as well. Yet another great example of this is the Gillette ad. In this case, the message is actually good, but the execution is hypocritical, because it's from Gillette, a massive corporation that doesn't actually give a shit about the message; it was all to generate controversy to increase their profits. And, sadly, it worked.

The Liberal Weaponization of Identity is inherently contradictory, and it's supposed to be. That's the entire point.

Feminism, social justice, etc, are not the Liberal Weaponization of Identity. They are Identity Politics.

Back to Bloodlines...

Identity Politics is our current political conversation. And not just the politics of race or gender, but of religion, and class, as well. I don't see why 2 2 shouldn't tackle that. And given the deft, well-written way they tackled the politics of power in 1, I fully trust the writers, like Brian Mitsoda, to give us Identity Politics, and not the Liberal Weaponization of Identity, in 2.

To bring this around to your worry about dialog choices... you are absolutely correct that the types of dialog we got on 1 would not work with pronoun choices. But would the lack of identical dialog in 2 be a bad thing? Do you actually want that same dialog in 2? Why? It would not only be out of place in the game, but it'd be out of place in the time the game is supposed to take place (2015 or later). I don't believe that said dialog is required for good writing. We don't need it, and I, for one, won't miss it. And if you do, you could always just play 1 again.

(Another giant quote...)

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Now I'm delving into the "woke" aspect a bit, as to what I was referring to before. So, continuing from the above paragraph, let's look at an example. Have you heard about the Borderlands 3 Guns, Love, & Tentacles DLC? I'm sure Gearbox had nothing but good (and profitable) intent when they decided "Hey, let's make an H.P. Lovecraftian planet with silly, creepy quests, and the entire mission is to help two likable gay men in love get married. Welp, apparently this dead H.P. Lovecraft guy was a racist and a homophobe. A journalist from GameSpot then took it upon himself ( https://www.gamespot.com/articles/borderlands-3-guns-love-and-tentacles-dlc-hand-wav/1100-6475340/ (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/borderlands-3-guns-love-and-tentacles-dlc-hand-wav/1100-6475340/) ) to publicly defecate on Gearbox's "progressive" DLC by implying that Gearbox needed to somehow mock H.P. Lovecraft's racism and homophobia, and that since it didn't do that, Gearbox totally failed and the DLC is "problematic." He also gripes about the villain claiming the gay characters' love is lesser than the love between herself and her husband, but um...SHE IS THE VILLAIN. She's supposed to be evil and the object of the player's frustration. Also, she doesn't say it's because their gay or make any such insinuations.
This also happened when journalists got epic hard-ons about Far Cry 5, wanting it to be all about real-world political messages when that's not what Far Cry 1, 3, or 4 were really about (I hated 2 and didn't finish it). This asshole ( https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176308/far-cry-5-review-xbox-ps4-pc (https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/29/17176308/far-cry-5-review-xbox-ps4-pc) ) is clearly butt-hurt that the game doesn't make the villains be racists to make social commentary about White Nationalists, when there's no evidence that the villains were ever supposed to be racists or White Nationalists. He admits the game makes political one-liners dissing Trump and such, but it is "a game for cowards" (his words) as it didn't go the distance and become a piece of political activism for the journalist's agenda. So the developers put a couple of pro-Left jokes in the game, and journalists call their game "a game for cowards."

Here's another prick ( https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/27/17165252/far-cry-5-story-characters (https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/27/17165252/far-cry-5-story-characters) ) who knocks on Far Cry 5 because it doesn't take up the cause for the political agenda he wants it to. There is a phrase that's been coined: "the Left eat their own." People do something "progressive," but it's just not progressive enough, according to some jackasses, and those jackasses then proceed to put out publications attempting to shame the developers for having the gall to do something in favor of the Left...but not take it far enough to stick it to the opposition.

I don't want to see Hardsuit Labs' writers put out something A) not woke enough that gets them shamed into oblivion to the point that it hurts their sales, or B) so woke that they "get woke, go broke" because the game ends up being such a piece of political propaganda/activism that it's no longer an attempt at a good game, but focuses the majority of its efforts on "owning the deplorables."

As I mentioned above... those links don't demonstrate Identity Politics, but the Liberal Weaponization of Identity. I actually abhor what the latter has done to concept of "woke". Woke started amongst black people, as a way to describe people (of any race) who actually figure out the whole racism thing. But Capitalism got ahold of that, and elites got ahold of that, and ruined it. And now it's excoriated because of that. Same thing happened to "SJW". Technically, Martin Luther King, Jr was an SJW (and oh boy do I have words on that, but this isn't the post... but I happen think the US did MLK's legacy super dirty). But when Capitalists and Elites get ahold of a concept, it becomes a joke.

And BTW, that's on purpose. The elite want that to happen. It's yet another way they can turn us workers against ourselves, to distract us from them and their greed, and the oppression of Capitalism (have I mentioned yet that I'm a Socialist who leans towards Anarcho-Syndicalism/Anarcho-Communism?). And Hollywood Liberals are useful pawns in that game. Most of the Hollywood liberals who parrot this shit genuinely mean it; they aren't lying. But they're being duped.

Punching Up is actually a very important concept in social justice. It means taking care of your target. Someone who's wealthy making fun of the poor is not "funny"; it's mean-spirited and cruel. But someone who's poor making fun of themselves is fine... it's self-deprecation. Again, it's been abused as a concept by those invested in the Liberal Weaponization of Identity, but that doesn't make it a bad concept by itself.

And yes, people invested in the Liberal Weaponization of Identity are going to nitpick the game... it's what they do. Instead of getting angry at them, you can ignore them. Or you could look past the bullshit to see some good points being made. Even when Liberals are weaponizing identity, they manage to accidentally stumble onto some good points worth considering.

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Similarly, I wouldn't want a developer on the Right to try to shame and push away people on the Left who play their games. We're here to have fun someplace where real-world politics aren't a big deal. Imagine if you were playing a game and suddenly the characters start talking about abortion in a pro-life angle, and anyone with pro-choice arguments is portrayed as an idiot or a villain, and the player has to support pro-life decisions in the game and it's obvious that's the only right answer per the writing and all else is belittled. Same with pro-gun arguments. Nationalism arguments. Arguments in support of building "the wall." Pro-religion arguments. Arguments of the inferiority and superiority of the values inculcated by certain cultures in America. The list goes on.

Yeah... that'd be frustrating if it were written badly. For me personally, it'd be annoying if it were written well, but at least if it's written well, the game itself could still potentially be good. I might not enjoy it, but a lot of people would. But it's not about the context; it's about the writing. If the writing's good, then the political content isn't so bad.

You say this: "We're here to have fun someplace where real-world politics aren't a big deal."

That's just... not a thing. Real-world politics inform everything. Real-world politics is in everything. I mean this in all seriousness: there is no such thing as "apolitical". It doesn't exist. There's shallow, bad, terrible explorations of politics, there's deep, good, well-written explorations of politics, and then there's (almost always failed) attempts at avoiding politics, which almost always end up being shallow, bad, terrible explorations of politics.

And people tend to miss that. It's amazing how people will complain about how Picard "forces politics into Star Trek" when Gene Rodenberry created Star Trek to explicitly critique things like Capitalism, racism, sexism, etc. If Gene Rodenberry were around today, he'd be excoriated by a lot of people as an SJW. He was a proud supporter of Civil Rights, and not just of black people, but also members of the LGBTQIA community (he was openly supportive of trans people and their rights), immigrants, religious minorities, etc. And he wrote all of that into Star Trek... and did so openly. Star Trek has always been political, and explicitly left-wing and SJW in its politics. (That's actually why William Shatner's current anti-"SJW" stance is so odd today... the show he was the main character of was openly and proudly SJW, left-wing, etc.)

Same with Star Wars. George Lucas easily qualifies as an SJW, and the Original Trilogy had that shit all throughout it. The Prequel Trilogy did, as well, although, to be fair, that was nowhere near as well-written as the OT. And that's actually the real problem with the Sequel Trilogy. It's not remotely cohesive, and Rise of Skywalker was so obviously an attempt to course-correct from Last Jedi it was ridiculous. It wasn't the "politics" of the sequel trilogy that killed it; that was in line with Lucas's vision from the very beginning. It was the writing.


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Of course, I think the ultimate conclusion is that people shouldn't bother listening to the hard-reaching, bitter ramblings of games journalists trying to find something to bitch about when a developer actually did something progressive and the journalist should "take his/her win and walk away." Nothing's generally ever good enough for them unless it goes so far that it seems as though it may repel the "deplorables," because these folks don't want everyone to get along. They don't want minds changed. They don't want reasonable discussions. They want in-your-face fuck-you-if-you-disagree-with-us presentations lacking any subtlety and for games to be real-world political activism first; and maybe fun if that's still possible.

And that is not Identity Politics. That is the Liberal Weaponization of Identity.

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I play games to visit an alternate reality where vampire politics are the only politics that matter, where all human politics are largely an afterthought, and I can be faced with murder/life-saving decisions and temptations in a cool power fantasy of mystical beings interacting with others in a cool setting. Being preached at and very unsubtly told by a game's hack writers that I am a bad person because I disagree with their politics is not why I play games. Unless the player's real-world politics/beliefs are to kill people who try to mind their own business without not hurting other humans, then I see no reason to openly try to insult and villainize the player.

Why do you lack such faith in Brian Mitsoda's writing? He did such a good job with 1, why do you think he'd be terrible with 2?

Also... "I play games to visit an alternate reality where vampire politics are the only politics that matter, where all human politics are largely an afterthought, and I can be faced with murder/life-saving decisions and temptations in a cool power fantasy of mystical beings interacting with others in a cool setting."

It's amazing that you don't realize how shallow a reading of Bloodlines 1 this is. "Human politics" was very openly placed throughout the game. It was unavoidable. Bloodlines 1 serves as a very deft, and very good, critique of power, authoritarianism, and Capitalism. It was a celebration of freedom (the Anarchs), but also a very deft critique of the very shallow kind of readings you're engaging in now, insisting on exploring shades of grey. It actually does a great job of exploring the identity politics of being a vampire in (the game's) reality, going to the point of exploring how one can be a "good vampire", and questioning if it's even possible. The metaphors inherent in the game are so obvious, I'm shocked you can ignore them like that.

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Similarly, I wouldn't want a developer on the Right to try to shame and push away people on the Left who play their games. We're here to have fun someplace where real-world politics aren't a big deal. Imagine if you were playing a game and suddenly the characters start talking about abortion in a pro-life angle, and anyone with pro-choice arguments is portrayed as an idiot or a villain, and the player has to support pro-life decisions in the game and it's obvious that's the only right answer per the writing and all else is belittled. Same with pro-gun arguments. Nationalism arguments. Arguments in support of building "the wall." Pro-religion arguments. Arguments of the inferiority and superiority of the values inculcated by certain cultures in America. The list goes on.

But real-world politics are always a big deal. They were absolutely a big deal in 1, and they're a big deal in all of our media. That's literally the point of media... to explore real-world politics. It's completely unavoidable.

Let me skip the last bit and go straight to that trailer...

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If you want to see what happens when a writer/creator goes too far to the "woke side," go to YouTube and search for "Bit trailer." It's a new trailer (just a few days old) for a vampire movie, and it goes out of its way to denigrate males. Could you imagine a trailer like this with all male vampires talking like this about females? Imagine the backlash from the Left. Also, the protagonist is a trans woman. Not really part of my argument, but I'm sure it scores all kinds of points for the writer/director/producer folks.

Okay so I watched it and... I'm sorry, but it feels like you're grasping at straws. The line you're referencing feels like it comes across as a joke. Obviously I've not seen the movie, and honestly, it doesn't look like a movie I'm that interested in seeing... maybe when it hits Netflix or whatever. So literally no one has any idea about the context of that line. It could be a joke... or she could even get "punished" for saying it at some point. You just don't know.

As for the main character being trans...

1) So what? Why is that even worth mentioning? Why does it matter? I mean, imagine if the main character was black. Would you say the same thing? If not, why not? What if the character was openly Jewish? Again... would you say the same thing? Now apply that to the situation here.

2) How do you even know? It's not stated in the trailer. Does the actress happen to be a trans woman (I honestly don't even know who that is)? If she is... again, so what? Again... why does it matter?

That line... you pointing out that the main character happens to be trans... is why I consistently get frustrated with complaints that something is "too woke". It's never because the media in question does a bad job with the subject matter (Supergirl took several seasons to stop being bad at it, and Batgirl hasn't done too well at it, either... both are good examples of the Liberal Weaponization of Identity, as opposed to genuine explorations of Identity Politics), but rather because a or the main character happens to not be a straight, white, cis-gendered, able-bodied man.

If the main character is said man... nobody panics; because it's all "part of the plan". But if one little old main character just happens to be played by, say, a trans actor... well then everyone loses their minds!

Imagine the concept of a black woman as 007. Not as James Bond! James Bond retires (because he's human... he has to get too old and tired and decide to retire eventually... or he dies), and a new character, who happens to be portrayed by a black woman, takes over the title as a new 007. The very thought sends certain people into an apoplectic fit, even though it'd work just fine with the right writers.

Or look at Doctor Who (which happens to be my all-time favorite show; although no, I haven't actually loved the Chibnall seasons very much... I love Jodie Whittaker, but the writing leaves much to be desired). This is a character who, technically, is immortal. This is so through this amazing process called regeneration; when near death the Doctor's body goes through said process, changing not just the look, but the cells, genetic material (whatever the Gallifreyan equivalent of DNA is), and even the mind and personality. I think it's been an oversight that the Doctor has always been portrayed by a white man, especially given the fact that there's nothing in the canon to suggest that regeneration is limited in this way, other than the consistent casting, which is never actually explained in the canon. So the fact that our main Doctor is currently played by Jodie Whittaker, and a new (well... technically... old) Doctor played by Jo Martin was introduced, makes perfect sense to me. If regeneration can restructure the personality and even the "DNA" of a Time Lord, why shouldn't that include the gender and skin color, at least sometimes?

I have never, and will never, understand the objection to that. I will never learn to understand that, and I will never be okay with it. Who gives a fuck about the racial, gender, and/or sexual identity of the actor/actress? That should literally be the one thing you don't care about in casting.

There is an exception, of course... when such casting serves an in-story purpose. And that could easily be the case for this Bit movie; we have no idea. But to bring that up at all, with what little information we do have, just... it's out of place and pointless. It serves no purpose.

ETA: Actually... I should address what some people think is a second exception... adapting a story for film or TV, and casting someone who is not the same gender and/or race as portrayed in said story.

I am actually torn on this one. Given the fact that we're talking about fictional characters, it's hard for me to care that much, but I can see some of the arguments from people who grew up with, say, a white Bruce Wayne, getting a film with a black Bruce Wayne. I'm wiling to forgive it, because that'd be a fascinating change and re-telling of the story if written well, IMO, but I can see why some might be put off by it. Of course, it'd also be easy to explain away, because as we all know, DC is a multi-verse, not a single universe, and exploring the identity politics of a black Bruce Wayne could easily be explained away as an Else-World's tale. So I don't really have a problem with it. I do get it in this case... I just don't care enough.

And that's with the fact that Batman is my all-time favorite comic book hero (alongside Wonder Woman).
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Candy Narwhal on May 09, 2020, 09:24:33 pm
(my quotes are not working either, sorry)

@DarkProphet:

How much of an impact did that GameSpot article have on Borderlands 3 - or the overall reception of Guns, Love and Tentacles - in the end?

If you cannot separate the art from the artist (while still acknowledging its more pernicious aspects, to quote a certain someone), you have no place in art criticism whatsoever, and nobody will take your opinion seriously.

I'm pretty sure that was the case with the writer of this article as well, wasn't it?

You know, in general - for as much power as is ascribed to this "microcosm of people", I don't see them making a big difference in the world.

Let's bring it back to when Jill Valentine wore short shorts instead of a skirt, and the Gamergate-type people were giving themselves heart attacks over it...

I didn't see a single feminist/progressive with anything to say about it (other than in responses to the above-mentioned people), positive or negative.

So, are they really that loud? I feel like the only ones making so much noise are the conservative people, who six years later will still insist that "did you just assume my gender?" is a real phrase that trans/nonbinary people actually use...

For the record, they don't. It's never been a real point of contention within the wider community - perhaps in a subsect of like 20 people in a circle jerk on Tumblr back in 2014, but Jesus Christ, you can't tell me these people "have the media's ear."

That's just not true.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 09, 2020, 09:42:19 pm
(Holy shit I'm gonna be editing my essay for the next year... what's with the formatting glitches?)
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 09, 2020, 10:02:07 pm
DarkProphet and NateHevens... you guys need to be more precise :rofl:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 09, 2020, 10:14:15 pm
@Highwayman667 Shhhhh... be quiet  :walloftext:   :58_124: :grin:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2020, 10:37:35 pm
(my quotes are not working either, sorry)

@DarkProphet:

How much of an impact did that GameSpot article have on Borderlands 3 - or the overall reception of Guns, Love and Tentacles - in the end?



That's impossible to tell. I will say that Borderlands 3 has an overall review score of 84%, while the first DLC (The Handsome Jackpot) has a 95%, and Guns, Love & Tentacles has a 64%, which is the lowest score of the presently released game and its DLC. Skimming the reviews, none of them say "I thought this DLC sucked because I read an article written by a political hack." Then again, I wouldn't expect them to. My concern isn't how the article will influence people playing it, but how it will influence potential buyers. I would like Bloodlines 2 to sell well if it's a good game, and bad press may drive people away from it.


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If you cannot separate the art from the artist (while still acknowledging its more pernicious aspects, to quote a certain someone), you have no place in art criticism whatsoever, and nobody will take your opinion seriously.



I agree that it should be that way, but you could say "Hitler was a horrible human being and I'm glad he's gone. I really like his paintings, though," and - if you were a relevant Internet personality or celebrity - the news article headlines would read "Candy Narwhal speaks up in favor of Hitler's work." Headlines are what a ton of people read. They don't have time to read articles or don't make time, and all they see are the headlines, and media professionals looking to manipulate others are well aware of this. Just reading the headline "Borderlands 3 Guns, Love, And Tentacles DLC Hand-Waves Major Issues With Lovecraft's Work" doesn't tell you that the journalist is a piece of shit charlatan of a professional writer. However, the average idiot consumer who doesn't bother to read the article and trusts headlines will think "Oh, the DLC sucks." The person is being foolish, sure, and it's his/her fault for not reading the article and buying into it, but people buy games based on "I heard it was good" or don't buy them based on "I heard it sucked," etc. Bad press hurts sales. Although I don't particularly value those kinds of stupid people all that highly, I value their money for getting games I like to sell well.



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I'm pretty sure that was the case with the writer of this article as well, wasn't it?



Stupid people who don't put a lot of thought into their purchases may see the headline and pass. That's undesirable for Borderlands fans wanting more content. He got clicks for his employer from people going to read his sham of "journalistic integrity," so his employer is happy, I suppose, even if I don't respect them...though to be fair, I don't respect any of the big media outlets these days. I used to read IGN articles several times per day, but they devolved into this garbage on a regular basis over time.


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You know, in general - for as much power as is ascribed to this "microcosm of people", I don't see them making a big difference in the world.



Well, I mean refusing to call a male who says he is a "she" now by "she" is a crime in Canada that you can be fined for. People are entitled to their own beliefs about themselves, but imposing them on others is unethical. Just as John Smith, a hypothetical leader of a religious cult, should not legally be able to require that people call him "Father Smith" if they don't share his cults beliefs, I shouldn't be required to call a trans woman "she" if I don't share the belief that the trans woman is a female. You do your thing. I do my thing. Unless I start physically assaulting people, stealing shit, etc., I want us to be able to live in peace and not get jailed or fined for having different beliefs. I wouldn't want "Father Smith" to be able to have the government fine a trans woman for refusing to call him "Father Smith," so I wouldn't want the opposite, either.


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Let's bring it back to when Jill Valentine wore short shorts instead of a skirt, and the Gamergate-type people were giving themselves heart attacks over it...

I didn't see a single feminist/progressive with anything to say about it (other than in responses to the above-mentioned people), positive or negative.



To be fair, SJW news articles were pretty rare concerning video games back then, as I recall. The whole movement didn't really come to a head until 2014, judging by news articles when I Google phrases like "original SJW gaming article," etc. I'm sure there were a few individual statements here and there, but I'm unaware of a gaming website employing some asshole to write his political agenda in response to a video game until the past few years.



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So, are they really that loud? I feel like the only ones making so much noise are the conservative people, who six years later will still insist that "did you just assume my gender?" is a real phrase that trans/nonbinary people actually use...

For the record, they don't. It's never been a real point of contention within the wider community - perhaps in a subsect of like 20 people in a circle jerk on Tumblr back in 2014, but Jesus Christ, you can't tell me these people "have the media's ear."

That's just not true.



It's anecdotal, but I have (had?) a friend who is a trans male. This friend appears to have basically called off our friendship altogether based on the trans vs Father Smith example I gave above. This happened earlier this week. This same friend told me a few years ago that she does not share any of my religious beliefs, and yet I was perfectly fine remaining friends with her. I avoided using sex/gender pronouns altogether because I wasn't about to betray my own beliefs, but did do her the courtesy of using her new male name. As soon as she saw that I was presumably not on board with being able to force people to refer to trans folks by their preferred pronouns (I'm in America, but some companies will consider "misgendering" as harassment and grounds to lead to termination), she ended our friendship of more than 10 years.


So yeah, there are people who get super mega ultra triggered by misgendering.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 09, 2020, 11:03:08 pm
@DarkProphet

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It's anecdotal, but I have (had?) a friend who is a trans male. This friend appears to have basically called off our friendship altogether based on the trans vs Father Smith example I gave above. This happened earlier this week. This same friend told me a few years ago that she does not share any of my religious beliefs, and yet I was perfectly fine remaining friends with her. I avoided using sex/gender pronouns altogether because I wasn't about to betray my own beliefs, but did do her the courtesy of using her new male name. As soon as she saw that I was presumably not on board with being able to force people to refer to trans folks by their preferred pronouns (I'm in America, but some companies will consider "misgendering" as harassment and grounds to lead to termination), she ended our friendship of more than 10 years.

And yet here you are misgendering him right here in this comment. The proper pronouns for men (cis or trans) are male pronouns. A trans man is a man. Therefore his proper pronouns are male. Whether you want to admit it or not, it is transphobic, and just grossly disrespectful in general, to continue to misgender him.

I'm sorry, but I can understand why he's cut off the friendship... you clearly don't have enough respect for him to use his preferred pronouns. Why should he be friends with someone who obviously does not respect him in any way, shape, or form?

Also...

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Well, I mean refusing to call a male who says he is a "she" now by "she" is a crime in Canada that you can be fined for.

This is not true, and has never been true. Jordan Peterson was lying. Here's the actual text of the actual bill (https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/LegislativeSummaries/421C16E). And here's a perfect summary breakdown from the CBC (https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/m_features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained)... and this one I'll quote bits from:

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Bill C-16 added the words “gender identity or expression” to three places. First: It was added to the Canadian Human Rights Act, joining a list of identifiable groups that are protected from discrimination. These groups include age, race, sex, religion and disability, among others.Second: It was added to a section of the Criminal Code that targets hate speech — defined as advocating genocide and the public incitement of hatred — where it joins other identifiable groups.Third: It was added to a section of the Criminal Code dealing with sentencing for hate crimes. If there’s evidence that an offence is motivated by bias, prejudice or hate, it can be taken into account by the courts during sentencing.

And the thoughts of actual political experts:

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Does the bill legislate the use of certain language? And could someone go to jail for using the wrong pronoun?

In the Criminal Code, which does not reference pronouns, Cossman says misusing pronouns alone would not constitute a criminal act.

“The misuse of gender pronouns, without more, cannot rise to the level of a crime,” she says. “It cannot rise to the level of advocating genocide, inciting hatred, hate speech or hate crimes … (it) simply cannot meet the threshold.”

The Canadian Human Rights Act does not mention pronouns either. The act protects certain groups from discrimination.

Protecting at-risk minorities (and trans people certainly fit that qualification) from discrimination is quite literally the job of any government worth its salt.

The act literally does not mention pronouns. Anywhere. Seriously... search for the word "pronoun" in the text of the bill... you won't find it.

So no... you can't get fined for misgendering someone in Canada. That's just not a thing the bill does.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 09, 2020, 11:45:41 pm
@DarkProphet
And yet here you are misgendering him right here in this comment. The proper pronouns for men (cis or trans) are male pronouns. A trans man is a man. Therefore his proper pronouns are male. Whether you want to admit it or not, it is transphobic, and just grossly disrespectful in general, to continue to misgender him.



We'll have to agree to disagree. I call males "he," and females "she." Males are biologically determined by XY chromosomes, and females are biologically determined by XX chromosomes. If someone is born a hermaphrodite, that is an anomaly and so rare as to not make sense as setting the standard for what a male or a female is. Allegations of "male brains" and "female brains" do not change the fact that the person born with a penis and XY chromosomes in every cell of his body except for his sperm cells is a male, and the person born with a vagina and XX chromosomes in every cell of her body is female.



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I'm sorry, but I can understand why he's cut off the friendship... you clearly don't have enough respect for him to use his preferred pronouns. Why should he be friends with someone who obviously does not respect him in any way, shape, or form?



Because I'm fine with being friends with her despite her claiming that my religion and everything in it is false? Because I don't shun her for that? And yet here you are, taking the side of the intolerant person. I never asked her to convert to my religion. I never told her that she has to believe any of it or say anything to support my beliefs, because I am not an asshole who wants to force others to obey me.


As for what a transphobe is, you clearly don't understand. From Wikipedia, "Transphobia can include fear, aversion, hatred, violence, anger, or discomfort felt or expressed toward people who do not conform to society's gender expectation." I was not afraid of her, so no fear. I wanted to be her friend, so no aversion. Again, wanted to be her friend, so no hatred. I never committed any acts of violence, so no violence. I'm not angry at her for the trans stuff. I'm not uncomfortable about it and never said she made me uncomfortable. I just don't believe she's a guy. Just as she doesn't believe in my religion. However, you feel that she should be able to force her beliefs on me, and - I would assume - feel that I should NOT be able to force my beliefs on her. Can you not see your deliberate hypocrisy?



Moreover, when you say I don't respect "him" in "any way shape or form" way to go. Do you normally value a person solely on his or her gender identity? The implication you are making that the only way a person can have respect is via whether the person is called "he" or "she" is positively disgusting.



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Also...
This is not true, and has never been true. Jordan Peterson was lying. Here's the actual text of the actual bill (https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/LegislativeSummaries/421C16E). And here's a perfect summary breakdown from the CBC (https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/m_features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained)... and this one I'll quote bits from:

Quote
Bill C-16 added the words “gender identity or expression” to three places. First: It was added to the Canadian Human Rights Act, joining a list of identifiable groups that are protected from discrimination. These groups include age, race, sex, religion and disability, among others.Second: It was added to a section of the Criminal Code that targets hate speech — defined as advocating genocide and the public incitement of hatred — where it joins other identifiable groups.Third: It was added to a section of the Criminal Code dealing with sentencing for hate crimes. If there’s evidence that an offence is motivated by bias, prejudice or hate, it can be taken into account by the courts during sentencing.

And the thoughts of actual political experts:

Quote
Does the bill legislate the use of certain language? And could someone go to jail for using the wrong pronoun?

In the Criminal Code, which does not reference pronouns, Cossman says misusing pronouns alone would not constitute a criminal act.

“The misuse of gender pronouns, without more, cannot rise to the level of a crime,” she says. “It cannot rise to the level of advocating genocide, inciting hatred, hate speech or hate crimes … (it) simply cannot meet the threshold.”

The Canadian Human Rights Act does not mention pronouns either. The act protects certain groups from discrimination.

Protecting at-risk minorities (and trans people certainly fit that qualification) from discrimination is quite literally the job of any government worth its salt.

The act literally does not mention pronouns. Anywhere. Seriously... search for the word "pronoun" in the text of the bill... you won't find it.

So no... you can't get fined for misgendering someone in Canada. That's just not a thing the bill does.



A judge can disagree with a legal expert and make whatever decision he or she sees fit without a precedent case on file to guide his/her decision. So a judge need only say that it is his or her opinion that deliberately using the wrong pronoun while other people could hear it was hate speech designed to incite public hatred. "Inciting hatred" is some loose verbiage that would allow for it. You may disagree, but without a precedent case saying that you can't deem using wrong pronouns in public as hate speech, a judge has the power to do so. Although it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't, and I don't approve of crappy laws, even if they're not enforced.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 10, 2020, 12:06:37 am
Dude. XX and XY has literally been debunked. You need to catch up on your biology. Chromosomes are way more complicated than that and very simply do not conform to gender boxes. The more we study biology, the more "male and female" is proven to be, at best, an over-simplication. An gender dysphoria is a real, medically-diagnosable issue, and the medically accepted treatment for it is, in fact, transitioning.


And I can prove it. I'm friends with someone who is a trans woman. She was identified as male at birth. She suffered from really severe dysphoria, to the point of being suicidal. Her parents had her tested, and they actually did a blood test. I saw the result.


This person, with a male body and male genitalia, literally had female chromosomes (XX) and the hormone production was entirely messed up. Her depression, dysphoria, and hormone-based physical issues were all cured when she transitioned. Literally, she was chromosomally female, yet was born with a penis and a typically male body.


She is proof that XX and XY is just... wrong. It's just wrong. It's over-simplified to the point of being straight up wrong.


Hermaphroditism, BTW, is now thought to be way more common than previously thought, because of the fact that chromosomes do not, contrary to popular belief, actually relate to the outward gender representation of a body as once thought.


Your ex-friend is a man, and you are straight up an asshole for continuing to misgender him. He may be an asshole about your religion, but that asshole is still a man, and you are an asshole for refusing to acknowledge that.


Saying it's incredibly transphobic for you to continue misgendering him isn't hypocritical... it's true. That is a huge part of what transphobia is. You very obviously do not respect your ex-friend, and he's seen that and decided to cut you out of his life because of that.


Again, this has nothing to do with whether or not your ex-friend is an asshole over the way he talks about your religion. You can both be assholes.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2020, 12:53:58 am
Dude. XX and XY has literally been debunked. You need to catch up on your biology. Chromosomes are way more complicated than that and very simply do not conform to gender boxes. The more we study biology, the more "male and female" is proven to be, at best, an over-simplication. An gender dysphoria is a real, medically-diagnosable issue, and the medically accepted treatment for it is, in fact, transitioning.


And I can prove it. I'm friends with someone who is a trans woman. She was identified as male at birth. She suffered from really severe dysphoria, to the point of being suicidal. Her parents had her tested, and they actually did a blood test. I saw the result.


This person, with a male body and male genitalia, literally had female chromosomes (XX) and the hormone production was entirely messed up. Her depression, dysphoria, and hormone-based physical issues were all cured when she transitioned. Literally, she was chromosomally female, yet was born with a penis and a typically male body.


She is proof that XX and XY is just... wrong. It's just wrong. It's over-simplified to the point of being straight up wrong.


Hermaphroditism, BTW, is now thought to be way more common than previously thought, because of the fact that chromosomes do not, contrary to popular belief, actually relate to the outward gender representation of a body as once thought.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome It sounds like your friend is a mutant. I know that's an insult in comics, sci-fi, etc., but that terminology seems to be the correct medical nomenclature case based on your explanation. XX and XY has never been debunked. Mutants are a thing, but I doubt you're insinuating that all trans people are mutants.


As for gender dysphoria, it is the politically correct term for gender identity disorder, listed in the DSM IV. It was removed from the DSM V as the vocal minority gained societal/media traction. While I cannot say if your friend was trans or not, the suicidal aspect sounds about right since people suffering from the condition have an approximately 40% attempted suicide rate. That's higher than any other group in the world, as far as I am aware; at least in America. I have heard some Asiatic cultures have different suicide ideologies, so it may differ over there. As for transitioning, there is no significant drop in attempted suicide rates after transitioning. As such, although transitioning is the "accepted medical treatment," it is not helping trans people. Instead of placating people showing signs of suicidal behavior, I wish that psychologists would actually try to find some way to help these folks instead.


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Your ex-friend is a man, and you are straight up an asshole for continuing to misgender him. He may be an asshole about your religion, but that asshole is still a man, and you are an asshole for refusing to acknowledge that.



And I think you're an asshole for calling me an asshole for disagreeing with someone about non-violent beliefs. Oh well.


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Saying it's incredibly transphobic for you to continue misgendering him isn't hypocritical... it's true. That is a huge part of what transphobia is. You very obviously do not respect your ex-friend, and he's seen that and decided to cut you out of his life because of that.



I already gave you the definition of what a "transphobe" is and detailed how I meet none of the criteria. A person disagreeing with another person's beliefs doesn't make the person a "-phobe." I was willing to agree to disagree about our respective beliefs and be friends, but she was not.


Refusing to let someone command you to call her "him" does not mean I don't respect her. It means I disagree with her. Just as her refusing to accept my religious beliefs as true is not a lack of respect. She is free to disagree with me, except I was willing to accept her as my friend despite her rejection of my beliefs, and she was not willing to accept me as her friend despite my rejection of her beliefs.


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Again, this has nothing to do with whether or not your ex-friend is an asshole over the way he talks about your religion. You can both be assholes.



Oh, I assure you we're assholes in our own ways, but I don't think she's an asshole for her beliefs about my beliefs, nor do I think I'm an asshole my beliefs about her beliefs.


If I shouldn't demand she accept my beliefs, why should she demand I accept her beliefs? That is no friendship. That would be her acting as a tyrant...but I was still willing to have her as a friend despite her demands. She just wasn't willing to have me as her friend unless I bent the knee and obeyed her in affirming her beliefs while she rejected mine. I have detailed how imbalanced this relationship was, with me willing to accept her as my friend despite each of us rejecting the other's beliefs.
And yet you think she had the moral high ground in cutting me out of her life.
Are you brainwashed to just automatically support trans folks no matter what, or are you a chronic contrarian?  :huh:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 10, 2020, 12:56:44 am
It's not his fucking "beliefs". It's his fucking identity. It's his fucking life. His whole fucking way of being. He didn't fucking choose it; it's who he fucking is.


I completely understand why he cut you out. He didn't need you in his life.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2020, 01:23:01 am

It's not his fucking "beliefs". It's his fucking identity. It's his fucking life. His whole fucking way of being. He didn't fucking choose it; it's who he fucking is.


Except I don't accept your beliefs or her beliefs, nor do I ask that you or she accept mine. And yet you and she become disdainful toward me for not kowtowing to her beliefs.


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I completely understand why he cut you out. He didn't need you in his life.



And I completely understand your support for ideological tribalism of an "us vs. them" mentality, cutting out anyone who won't agree with you and do what you say. That's a sad way to live in an echo chamber of like-minded individuals, and hearing anyone saying something that clashes with the norms is immediately branded a terrible person. Nice.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 10, 2020, 01:32:13 am
It's. Not. His. Fucking. Belief.


His gender identity is not a fucking belief. You cannot compare it to fucking religion. You can choose your religion. You can't choose your fucking gender identity any more than you can choose your sexuality (which... again... you can't).


Again... I see why he cut you out of his life...


Oh and I'm not insulted by you calling my friend a mutant. She's called herself that. But the science is clear: using XX and XY to determine gender just doesn't work. This has been proven.


Catch the fuck up with 21st century biology, please.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2020, 01:43:11 am
It's. Not. His. Fucking. Belief.



You believe that. I believe it is her belief.


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His gender identity is not a fucking belief. You cannot compare it to fucking religion. You can choose your religion. You can't choose your fucking gender identity any more than you can choose your sexuality (which... again... you can't).



If you truly believe a religion is one true religion, then there is no legitimate choosing of another religion for you. You are either with the true religion, or you are not with it. That is the only choice. Similarly, for a trans person who believes she is male, she can either continue to live as a female, or pretend to be male and have SJWs bully others into agreeing with her.


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Again... I see why he cut you out of his life...



Yes, you two support intolerance when people disagree with your beliefs. I, on the other hand, will still let someone be my friend if they tell me what I hold as my most important beliefs are false.

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Oh and I'm not insulted by you calling my friend a mutant. She's called herself that. But the science is clear: using XX and XY to determine gender just doesn't work. This has been proven.



It has not.


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Catch the fuck up with 21st century biology, please.



Catch up with facts, please.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 10, 2020, 02:13:53 am
This is the last time I will repeat myself. Gender Identity is not a belief. "One True Religion" is. There is science supporting the former; not the latter.


I am caught up with the facts. You, on the other hand, are behind by about several decades.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2020, 02:21:50 am
This is the last time I will repeat myself. Gender Identity is not a belief. "One True Religion" is. There is science supporting the former; not the latter.


I am caught up with the facts. You, on the other hand, are behind by about several decades.



Science respectfully disagrees. Male = XY chromosomes. Female = XX chromosomes. Except in super-rare mutations. I'm caught up on the facts. You're just accepting pop culture as fact and wokescolding those who disagree with you. But that's the usual from people who share your beliefs.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 10, 2020, 04:39:57 am
Science respectfully disagrees. Male = XY chromosomes. Female = XX chromosomes. Except in super-rare mutations. I'm caught up on the facts. You're just accepting pop culture as fact and wokescolding those who disagree with you. But that's the usual from people who share your beliefs.

Uhm... no. Here's an article from Medical News Today and the Gender deffinition from the World Health Organization:

"In general terms, “sex” refers to the biological differences between males and females, such as the genitalia and genetic differences. “Gender” is more difficult to define, but it can refer to the role of a male or female in society, known as a gender role, or an individual's concept of themselves, or gender identity"

"Gender refers to the roles, behaviours, activities, attributes and opportunities that any society considers appropriate for girls and boys, and women and men. Gender interacts with, but is different from, the binary categories of biological sex."

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363#sex-differences (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232363#sex-differences)

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender (https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender)

I know it's unrelated to the topic but there can be no room for confusion in this regard: gender is not the same as sex.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 10, 2020, 05:07:53 am
Holy fucking shit.

Science (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MitqjSYtwrQ)

Science (https://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html)

Science (http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/im-xy-know-sex-determination-systems-101/)

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It seems like a pretty clear system – but it wouldn’t be biology without exceptions and extra rules muddying the waters. When it comes to sex chromosomes, X’s and Y’s are not the only ingredients available. Many other sex determination systems exist, and the concept of “male” vs. “female” isn’t quite as simple as humans once thought.

Science (https://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943#/spectrum)

Science (https://massivesci.com/articles/sex-gender-intersex-transgender-identity-discrimination-title-ix/)

Science (https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome)

Science (https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/1/1/14/2890811)

Science (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9780470015902.a0005943.pub2)

Science (https://www.nature.com/articles/351117a0)

Science (https://www.nature.com/articles/17068)

Science (https://childrensnational.org/visit/conditions-and-treatments/diabetes-hormonal-disorders/differences-in-sex-development)

An article about a biology teacher who uses science to undermine transphobia (https://www.teenvogue.com/story/teacher-destroys-transphobia-science)... and yes I'm gonna quote what she says...

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First of all, in a sexual species, you can have females be XX and males be X (insects), you can have females be ZW and males be ZZ (birds), you can have females be females because they developed in a warm environment and males be males because they developed in a cool environment (reptiles), you can have females be females because they lost a penis sword fighting contest (some flatworms), you can have males be males because they were born female, but changed sexes because the only male in their group died (parrotfish and clownfish), you can have males look and act like females because they are trying to get close enough to actual females to mate with them (cuttlefish, bluegills, others), or you can be one of thousands of sexes (slime mold, some mushrooms.)

Oh, did you mean humans? Oh ok then. You can be male because you were born female, but you have 5-alphareductase deficiency and so you grew a penis at age 12. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but you are insensitive to androgens, and so you have a female body. You can be female because you have an X and a Y chromosome but your Y is missing the SRY gene, and so you have a female body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but one of your X's HAS an SRY gene, and so you have a male body. You can be male because you have two X chromosomes- but also a Y. You can be female because you have only one X chromosome at all. And you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are male. And vice - effing - versa. Don't use science to justify your bigotry. The world is way too weird for that shit.

And before you make the claim that this is a "recent phenomenon", it's not. Societies have recognized the existence of multiple genders for centuries:

As early as 4500 years ago, Sumerian and Akkadian texts documented the existence of Gala (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gala_(priests)), which were transgender/transvestite priests of the goddess Inanna.

Numerous Native American tribes have recognized multiple genders for almost as long, including the Navajo Náheedli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%A1dleehi), and the Zuni Lhamana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lhamana). And there's the well-known Two Spirits (https://web.archive.org/web/20121208071034/http://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1024&context=orpc), as well.

In India they have the hijras (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)), but documents over 3000 years old, including the Rigveda, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana, the Tipitaka, write about multiple genders and such.

And that's just a sampling. The idea that gender is a spectrum, and that there are multiple genders along that spectrum, goes back as far as the oldest texts we have from Ancient Sumeria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history).

I'm sorry, but you are the one behind the times. You are the one who needs to catch up to the facts. The facts are on my side. There are more than two genders, in literally every single form of life on the planet, humans included. That is a basic, proven, scientific fact.

Period.

End of Subject.

(And go ahead and have your last word. I have no interest in saying anything else here. I've already proven that I'm right and you're wrong. You're never going to accept that. You're going to keep spouting the bullshit in the face of my evidence. So go ahead... keep it up. I'm talking about the trailer, now... except to say that I hope the game's so SJW-heavy it makes you never want to touch World of Darkness ever again. I hope every character refers to your character with gender-neutral pronouns and you're forced to play as a trans woman at least once.)

Anyways...

I really liked the trailer. It definitely still has some limitations in the animations, but it's not like this has [Jim Sterling]AAA[/Jim Sterling] money. For the budget and time, it looks damn good. I love the use of the song, and the opening shot is fucking creepy. And Elif, man... she might make me choose the Tremere... every single time...

Even though I'm content to wait as long as needed for a good game... I also cannot wait to play it.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2020, 07:37:22 am

You've sent me heaps of spiritualism, opinions, and documentation of mutants/super-rare biology that has not been established as existing in the people claiming to be transgender today. Sending many, many links that fail to prove what you're claiming is folly. I could send you triple that many links about religion, but it doesn't make me correct. There is no evidence that a significant portion of the population today claiming to be transgender have these mutations. If they did, then we could easily have people tested for markers to know who has a 40+% chance of suicidal tendencies from being transgender.


There is a reason they do not go by "transsexual," but go by "transgender." It is because they wish to differentiate between gender and sex, because sex is biological, while gender - traditionally the same thing as sex - has been peeled away from science and deemed a "social construct," so that people can use opinions to dictate what it means to be trans and claim membership to that group by sheer force of will.


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[size=0px]So go ahead... keep it up. I'm talking about the trailer, now... except to say that I hope the game's so SJW-heavy it makes you never want to touch World of Darkness ever again. I hope every character refers to your character with gender-neutral pronouns and you're forced to play as a trans woman at least once.)[/size][/color]


You are one spiteful and hateful person. You cannot stand that someone disagrees with you so badly that you find happiness in the end of a ten-year friendship and hope the person is miserable. I hope you can find some peace and tolerance someday.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 10, 2020, 08:01:41 am
(I lied. One last thing.)

I don't, and will never, tolerate bigotry; transphobia included.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 10, 2020, 08:24:44 am
Dark Prophet :I'm honestly a bit shocked, that you would deny your friend his identity. It's what he is. I don't want to go into a long discussion about it, but I feel the need to say that. I have a friend, who was born male, but identifies as female. Of course I say she, it's what she is. This has nothing to do with echo chambers and belief, it is her identity.
I would have pitched in sooner, but I'm from Europe and fast asleep, when you guys started this discussion. I don't want to derail this thread further, but I find it important, to not let this comment about 'gender identity is a belief' stay. Of course it is not nice of your friend to be a dick about your religion either. But religion is indeed a belief, while gender identity is not. I know, it doesn't help to bring more links, since you obviously just will handwave them away.


That being said, I really am hyped for the game. Someone on bsn boards had some nice theories about the missing Unseen in the trailer and Mr. Damps puppets. That person was thinking, the Unseen could pull the strings of the other factions from the shadows. An interesting thought.
I really am a bit sad though, that we don't have Gangrel and Nosferatu as playable clans from the beginning. Love those clans nearly as much as the Malkavians.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on May 10, 2020, 02:21:17 pm
You've sent me heaps of spiritualism, opinions, and documentation of mutants/super-rare biology that has not been established as existing in the people claiming to be transgender today. Sending many, many links that fail to prove what you're claiming is folly. I could send you triple that many links about religion, but it doesn't make me correct. There is no evidence that a significant portion of the population today claiming to be transgender have these mutations. If they did, then we could easily have people tested for markers to know who has a 40+% chance of suicidal tendencies from being transgender.

The World Health Organization is a spiritualist institution ? I know it wasn't NateHevens who sent you that link but did you read it ?

I really am a bit sad though, that we don't have Gangrel and Nosferatu as playable clans from the beginning. Love those clans nearly as much as the Malkavians.
I think we will get them eventually right ? At least having the gangrel at a later date might bring a bit of life to the game after a while. Hope the nossies do get some love, perhaps in another DLC pack.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 10, 2020, 02:31:38 pm

I think we will get them eventually right ? At least having the gangrel at a later date might bring a bit of life to the game after a while. Hope the nossies do get some love, perhaps in another DLC pack.
I think, we will get them as DLC eventually, but I must say, I hate it, that games come out in parts today (meaning main game and DLCs). And I really was looking forward to play a Gangrel again, little tree hugger that I am  :cometome: . And I do think, we will get the Nosferatu too, I just wish, it could be sooner than later.
On another note: I hope, The prince (Cross) isn't such a douchbag as Lacroix. I mean, if they introduce another incompetent leader in the Camarilla, that would be too much.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2020, 02:37:10 pm

@ Highwayman: Yes, in that link the WHO talks about various mutants.

@ Nate: Well then, it's a good thing that I don't meet the definition of a transphobe by the actual definition. I mean, unless you count me being uncomfortable about trans folks having a 40+% attempted suicide rate. I am uncomfortable with them trying to kill themselves.


Dark Prophet :I'm honestly a bit shocked, that you would deny your friend his identity. It's what he is. I don't want to go into a long discussion about it, but I feel the need to say that. I have a friend, who was born male, but identifies as female. Of course I say she, it's what she is. This has nothing to do with echo chambers and belief, it is her identity.
I would have pitched in sooner, but I'm from Europe and fast asleep, when you guys started this discussion. I don't want to derail this thread further, but I find it important, to not let this comment about gender identity being a belief stay. Of course it is not nice of your friend to be a dick about your religion either. But religion is indeed a belief, while gender identity is not. I know, it doesn't help to bring more links, since you obviously just will handwave them away.



Some people believe they're animals. Some people believe they're all sorts of things. They're free to play pretend. I'm just not going to encourage them. I'm not denying her her identity. I'm denying believing in the one she's making up. She has an identity and apparently dislikes it so much that she's making up a new one after her psychologist talked to her long enough. Considering that the 40+% attempted suicide rates of trans folks shows no significant decrease after transitioning, psychologists should not be encouraging the behavior, but trying to find a way to help these folks cope with who they really are and not who they want to be, since who they want to be still has the same chance of attempted suicide. This isn't working and psychologists need to stop playing along and placating the mentally ill since it just perpetuates the suicides.


Quote
That being said, I really am hyped for the game. Someone on bsn boards had some nice theories about the missing Unseen in the trailer and Mr. Damps puppets. That person was thinking, the Unseen could pull the strings of the other factions from the shadows. An interesting thought.
I really am a bit sad though, that we don't have Gangrel and Nosferatu as playable clans from the beginning. Love those clans nearly as much as the Malkavians.



That would be kinda interesting, though it might lead players to join the Unseen all the time on future playthroughs if they're really running the show...unless you get to take them out at some point in the storyline while working with the other factions after some revelation that the Unseen are manipulating them. Ah, manipulating. Perhaps that would be better? Some significant manipulation/moles in each group, rather than actually running the whole thing in secret?


I also hope that Prince Cross is pretty decent. Obviously the Camarilla needs flaws, but I would prefer he be a tempting choice to side with. LaCroix is so incredibly douchey and treacherous that it's difficult to choose him unless you're roleplaying your character as the ultimate yes man...which I did once and got super blown up at the end, obviously.

Did you actually have fun as a Nossie in Bloodlines 1, though? I think I only played as one once; maybe twice, because I disliked the lack of human interaction in the game compared to the other clans. Gangrel I just personally don't like that much for personal reasons as I'm just not that big on animals in general. However, if I could talk to animals in the game as a Gangrel, that could be cool. Yes, that's a thing. It's called Feral Whispers. Here are the V5 Animalism powers, though who knows which ones (if any) will make the cut? Unliving Hive sounds fun, especially in a roleplaying scenario.

[font=&amp]Standard Powers (V5)[/font](https://forums.planetvampire.com/data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D)Edit (https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Animalism_(VTM)?action=edit&section=5)
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Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: NateHevens on May 10, 2020, 07:49:37 pm
Hey Highwayman667. My very first link was to the WHO. Clearly some people pick and choose to maintain their bigotry.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 10, 2020, 08:00:47 pm
Hey Highwayman667. My very first link was to the WHO. Clearly some people pick and choose to maintain their bigotry.




Bigotry: "Intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself."


Wow. I hadn't thought of that! You're right: you and my once-friend are both bigots since you both reject me for holding a different opinion than you.
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: fylimar on May 11, 2020, 02:56:45 pm
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2020, 10:20:30 pm

Fylimar, he mentions "Josh" at the end of his video (who is very well-versed in VtM). Here's Josh's video in case you're interested. Also, I'm chucking Outstar's video on here as well, though it contains no speculation or confirmation since she works for White Wolf now and would be fired if she shared without authorization:





&t=1s
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: DarkProphet on May 11, 2020, 10:42:30 pm

Hot diggety damn! This just dropped. I haven't even watched it yet, but it says it's from Outstar on the OFFICIAL WORLD OF DARKNESS CHANNEL, and it says it has Bloodlines 2 announcements! I'm posting before I even watch.  :vampsmile:


EDIT: Meh. Okay, so less than half of the video was about Bloodlines 2, and the only announcements I wasn't aware of were some of the Xbox-whatever-model and the PS5 announcements. Oh, and the Bloodlines 2 website has been updated to have 6 new screenshots and a few new bits of text. I wasn't impressed.

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Leorgrium on June 13, 2020, 06:40:23 pm
Collector edition announced


Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Highwayman667 on June 13, 2020, 09:55:59 pm
I think it's official now. Elif is the new Jeanette :rofl:
Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: Wilhelm-Streicher on July 22, 2020, 10:52:13 pm
New Dev Diary.
https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/putting-the-blood-in-bloodlines (https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/putting-the-blood-in-bloodlines)Nice trivial stuff for some people but really nothing that say now i am hyped. Also i still believe that Bloodlines 2 won´t come out this year.

Next month is a lot more interessing because it´s about the Masquerade.

Title: Re: Bloodlines 2 Links
Post by: mdqp on July 27, 2020, 09:50:00 am
New Dev Diary.
https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/putting-the-blood-in-bloodlines (https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/putting-the-blood-in-bloodlines)Nice trivial stuff for some people but really nothing that say now i am hyped. Also i still believe that Bloodlines 2 won´t come out this year.

Next month is a lot more interessing because it´s about the Masquerade.


What do you mean next month is about the Masquerade? Have they announced more reveals/teaser/news?
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