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Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« on: September 01, 2020, 02:01:00 pm »
The question I'd like to ask may be a bit premature. Given recent delays and lay-offs at Hardsuit and Paradox, the final shape of the upcoming product is more uncertain than ever. We don't know which aspects of the game are close to finished (if any), VTMB2 hype train suffered tremendously during last weeks, so any predictions at this point are crapshoot.

But I'm curious anyway.

So, do you think Bloodlines 2 hype will have an impact on Bloodlines 1 popularity?
Are we going to see more newcomers to this board, reddit, other boards - more new players in general?
Is there a "Bloodlines renaissance" of any sort around the corner? Perhaps new mods, new skins...? I know I'm asking much!

There was a great man singing about people for whom "every day is Halloween" - I dunno about whole year, but surely I'd like to see this (and other) communities blossom every fall, so I'm hoping that Bloodlines 2 will lead us to it eventually.  :rock:

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2020, 04:32:03 pm »
For sure. Not as big as Paradox would like it, given their recent fuck up.


But I think that at the very least it will increase interest in World of Darkness and subsequently Bloodlines 1.

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2020, 04:53:23 pm »
For sure. Not as big as Paradox would like it, given their recent fuck up.


But I think that at the very least it will increase interest in World of Darkness and subsequently Bloodlines 1.


What "recent fuck up?" Delaying the game again? I mean I'm sure you're NOT referring to the two major people being let go from the project since you don't know the reason and it could be something incredibly justified such as theft, violence, sexual harassment, etc. on the part of the terminated persons but if they publicly announce it, they would have to pay to take the matter to court for a legal ruling, lest the fellas sue them for slander without getting a legal declaration that they're correct about what happened, etc. Similarly, I'm not going to automatically assume that the terminated persons did anything wrong, either, because I'm not going to levy blame at either party since I'm rational and not an idiot who automatically places blame on parties whom you do not know in a situation you do not have any confirmed information on. So I'm sure you just meant the delay and not the termination of those guys as being a "fuck up" on Paradox's part since you're no doubt an intelligent human being instead of a mob rule "the company is always the bad guy" supporter of prejudice. =)


I'm unsure of the reasoning for the delay. They say they're delaying it for quality purposes, but who knows what all has been going on? I'd be curious to find out some day. I'm disappointed by the delay, but hope it's for the best.


I agree that Bloodlines 1 will likely see some additional sales due to the hype in general of Bloodlines 2, and if Bloodlines 2 is pretty good or even really good, I would expect quite a lot of people to check out the original out of curiosity and wanting more WoD lore. Perhaps some may seek out this site during their "travels," though I'm unsure how noticeable it is these days. I don't even remember how I found this site, it was so long ago. I think I joined in like 2005 or 2006 or so. However, if Bloodlines 2 does well, then it's entirely possible we could see "new faces" around here!

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2020, 05:28:46 pm »
I mean I'm sure you're NOT referring to the two major people being let go from the project since you don't know the reason and it could be something incredibly justified such as theft, violence, sexual harassment, etc.
Paradox staff has already confirmed that the firing of Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney has nothing to do if these kind of misbehaviour. Paradox did made a strong statement regarding this stuff with Chris Avellone. So no both weren´t fired because of this.
Also don´t forget the two german producers Christian Schlüter and Florian Schwarzer were also moved away from Bloodlines 2 and then they hired a fixer to finish the game. My current guess is that Paradox really wants this game out but unfortunately it isn´t near as ready and they have to cut many things too.
Back to the topic I think that Bloodlines 2 will have regardless of its quality an impact of WOD and Bloodlines 1. If Bloodlines 2 is a bad game well there will be still new people who will play Bloodlines 1 for the first time. The interest in WOD will still be the same but if Paradox crown jewel Bloodlines 2 sucks well good luck in selling the other WOD games to the fans because they look at best average.


« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 06:18:35 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2020, 05:39:17 pm »
I mean I'm sure you're NOT referring to the two major people being let go from the project since you don't know the reason and it could be something incredibly justified such as theft, violence, sexual harassment, etc.
Paradox staff has already confirmed that the firing of Brian Mitsoda and Ka’ai Cluney has nothing to do if these kind of misbehaviour. Paradox did made a strong statement regarding this stuff with Chris Avellone. So no both weren´t fired because of this.
Also don´t forget the two german producers Christian Schlüter and Florian Schwarzer were also moved away from Bloodlines 2 and then they hired a fixer to finish the game. My current guess is that Paradox really wants this game out but unfortunately it isn´t near as ready and they have to cut many things too.



Do you have a link to the confirmed source of Paradox staff? All I have seen was some screenshot of some unconfirmed post of someone claiming to be from Paradox who could be anyone. I would like some actual witness statements or managers who made the decisions and can state the termination reasoning.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 06:20:53 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2020, 05:49:02 pm »
Do you have a link to the confirmed source of Paradox staff? All I have seen was some screenshot of some unconfirmed post of someone claiming to be from Paradox who could be anyone. I would like some actual witness statements or managers who made the decisions and can state the termination reasoning.
Well unfortunately not right now. I read this in the early days of this news in one of the many Mitsoda threads in the Paradox forum. Maybe someone could help?  :embarrassed:

I think that this info is from some Paradox staff that have mention this on the official Bloodlines 2 discord.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 05:53:56 pm by Wilhelm-Streicher »

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2020, 05:58:22 pm »

Back to the topic i think that Bloodlines 2 will have regardless of its quality an impact of WOD and Bloodlines 1.If Bloodlines 2 is a bad game well there will be still new people who will play Bloodlines 1 for the first time. The interest in WOD will still be the samebut if Paradox crown jewel Bloodlines 2 sucks well good luck in selling the other WOD games to the fans because they look at best average.

It all depends on what the new guy they hired does. Bloodlines 2 might turn out to be a more "assassin's creed" type of game and might sell a ton of copies, which might be a more promising prospect for WOD. Now, what kind of bearing would that have on Bloodlines as an RPG ? We've yet to see, firing Mitsoda and Cluney might turn out to be an even bigger disaster than we might think.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 06:02:11 pm by Highwayman667 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2020, 06:15:00 pm »
What do you mean by "a more 'Assassin's Creed' type of game?"

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2020, 06:15:13 pm »
It all depends on what the new guy they hired does.
Well his job i would say. Paradox hired him to finishing Bloodlines 2 as fast as possible in this Corona times and not makeBloodlines 2 in a totally different game. Of course he can still try it and put his influence in the game but Paradox alreadyhave invested enough ressources already in this game. They want it out and don´t forget PC maybe not the main selling plattformfor this game. This could be the older consoles Xbox One or PS4.And for that you don´t have much time. 2021 may be the last year there you can possible sell the old gen games.
What do you mean by "a more 'Assassin's Creed' type of game?"
He means this quote form the Paradox statement." With that, we are excited to announce that Alexandre Mandryka has come aboard as Creative Consultant, filling the Creative Director role for Bloodlines 2, and will help us in the final stages of development. Alexandre is committed to following the vision that is in place, and successfully bringing Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 to the fans.
 
 Alexandre has been in the industry for more than 20 years and has worked on iconic franchises such as Assassin’s Creed, Warhammer 40,000, Far Cry, and more. With a long history of shipping excellent franchises, we are excited with what Alexandre brings to the game and the World of Darkness."https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/an-update-on-the-organizational-changes-for-bloodlines-2
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 06:17:29 pm by Wilhelm-Streicher »

Offline Wesp5

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2020, 06:28:03 pm »
Do you have a link to the confirmed source of Paradox staff?
I don't have a link either, but it was confirmed by famous WoD YouTuber Outstar, who now works for Paradox, that is has nothing to do with harrassment. Also how high are the chances that four people on two different continents would be caught at the same time? And yes, some people on RPGCodex figured out via LinkedIn and Twitter that the two producers were removed from Bloodlines 2 as well, and I can confirm myself that Florian Schwarzer, who was my main contact and which I actually met in person once, handed me over to the community manager at the time the change was done. My guess is that it either has to do something with the delays or with political issues and probably some of those people went on their own because they disagreed about the others being fired...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 06:32:27 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2020, 06:37:09 pm »
Alexandre has been in the industry for more than 20 years and has worked on iconic franchises such as Assassin’s Creed, Warhammer 40,000, Far Cry, and more. With a long history of shipping excellent franchises, we are excited with what Alexandre brings to the game and the World of Darkness."https://www.bloodlines2.com/en/an-update-on-the-organizational-changes-for-bloodlines-2


Thank you Wilhelm. Though it's not a very endearing to ALSO have to remember the Far Cry series (another overrated mess in my opinion).


Perhaps as you say he's only there to finish up whatever work is necessary, and if its a decent game then it will definitely have an important effect on World of Darkness and Bloodlines 1. We'll definitely be seeing new people here and those people will be curious to check out the first game.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 09:12:12 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline Wilhelm-Streicher

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2020, 06:48:38 pm »
Though it's not a very endearing to ALSO have to remember the Far Cry series (another overrated mess in my opinion).
Well i still love to play Far Cry 1 (PC!!!) and Far Cry 3. These are great games. Also Black Flag (maybe because it isn´t a real Assassins Creed) is pretty awesome.
Edit: If you look at the games where he there involved well i can´t say that this fear is justified. http://gamewhispering.com/about-me/
Quote
Perhaps as you say he's only there to finish up whatever work is necessary
May i remind you all that Hardsuit Labs wanted to finished this game in March 2020? And the game wasn´t near as finished back then.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 09:13:06 pm by Wesp5 »

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2020, 06:48:59 pm »
Ah, yes, I saw that quote before, Wilhelm. Thanks. I was just wondering if Highwayman meant like...having the game be more like Assassin's Creed in regard to the qualities of the game, as opposed to sales, because I definitely don't want that. To each his own and all, but Assassin's Creed is not a series I enjoy, and it does not focus as much on NPC interactivity as I would like.


Although...one thing that could be fun in regard to Assassin's Creed concerning VtM would be VtM games set in different eras. One in the 1920s, one in the Dark Ages like Redemption, one in the '60s, and so forth, and having them be set in countries that would make for cool locations. I doubt VtM will get that big, but still, it's fun to dream of different ideas. =p


Wesp, Outstar does not work for Paradox. She works for World of Darkness like Jason Carl does. I wish you had a link...I'd love to watch/read whatever she posted. She's the most credible source of information on the matter without us having statements from Paradox management and the two terminated fellas.


AHA! I Googled "Outstar" "Mitsoda" and "fired" and found a NeoGAF message board with screenshots of posts from Outstar! It's post number 76. You can click a dropdown to see the stuff she said. She's only confirmed that they can't talk about why it happened and that it's not a sexual misconduct or "MeToo" accusations: [size=78%]https://www.neogaf.com/threads/bloodlines-2-lead-writer-brian-mitsoda-fired.1561801/page-2#post-259782127[/size]


And thank goodness she confirmed they're not trying to make VtM into Assassin's Creed. XD

Offline Highwayman667

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2020, 06:54:32 pm »
Well i still love to play Far Cry 1 (PC!!!) and Far Cry 3. These are great games.Also Black Flag (maybe because it isn´t a real Assassins Creed) is pretty awesome.


I might forgive you the first one but the second one is utter shit... in my humble opinion. Maybe 3 is where things really picked up.

Offline DarkProphet

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Re: Bloodlines 2 impact on the original & community
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2020, 07:17:47 pm »
I hated Far Cry 2. I played it for like 2-3 hours and quit, never to return. I finished Far Cry 1. It was pretty good. Far Cry 3, 4, and (what I've seen in trailers of) 5 are their own kind of game. They have a little in common with certain things from 2, but 2 was just...ugh. I hated it so, so much. I quite liked 3, and 4 was pretty fun. They're not flawless games, but they're not Far Cry 2. I'm getting pissed off just thinking about that game.

 

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