Another Vampire: The Masquerade Game

[DarkZephyr]

I think it's a power fantasy, but I don't think it's exclusively a "male power fantasy." Women enjoyed the game and you can play as women. And those women can do some violent-ass stuff.

There's no reason why women can't enjoy male power fantasies too. The arguments are not mutually exclusive.

And no reason men can't enjoy female power fantasies.  Power fantasies for everyone, I say! 

[Barabbah]

I think there is even a mod to dress her up in that scene

My first mod! :3

[mdqp]

I am not sure what qualifies as a "male" power fantasy. Is it enough that some people are scantily dressed? That seems a fairly low bar to be meaningful. I think classifying VTM:B as a male power fantasy is like classifying 1984 as a "romantic novel", missing the forest for the tree.

On the topic of VV specifically, there might be several reasons as to why she is dressed like that in the opening cutscene. Maybe they ran out of time and budget, and had kept an extra set of clothing for her planned for last (or they found the effort for just one scene was too much), maybe they wanted to keep her recognizable, maybe it's part of her character, and she revels in being "scandalous" when possible (we get only a glimpse of how these vampires are seen or act in vampire society). I mean, some of the playable character models have it as bad as her, so it might just be that they valued the variety and uniqueness over how sensible the clothing was.

[DarkZephyr]

I am not sure what qualifies as a "male" power fantasy. Is it enough that some people are scantily dressed? That seems a fairly low bar to be meaningful.

Yeah, I wouldn't call it a "male power fantasy".  I would definitely say that it catered to straight males more so than to anybody else though.  But yeah, wording it as a "male power fantasy" is a bit over the top and kind of carries a "f*ck men" connotation as DarkProphet has said, or maybe a "men are big dumb goofy juvenile a**holes" tone that makes me feel a bit uneasy.  I agree with DarkProphet that they could have worded it a lot better. 

I will say though that I love power fantasies.  I reveled in becoming the immortal godlike Nerevarine when playing Morrowind, I gloried in apotheosizing into a Daedric god in the Oblivion Shivering Isles expansion pack and becoming the Divine Crusader at the same damn time in the Knights of the Nine DLC, I delighted in becoming the new immortal Vampire king in the Skyrim Dawnguard DLC, etc.   So yeah, I love a good power fantasy. 

[mdqp]

Yeah, I wouldn't call it a "male power fantasy".  I would definitely say that it catered to straight males more so than to anybody else though.  But yeah, wording it as a "male power fantasy" is a bit over the top and kind of carries a "f*ck men" connotation as DarkProphet has said, or maybe a "men are big dumb goofy juvenile a**holes" tone that makes me feel a bit uneasy.  I agree with DarkProphet that they could have worded it a lot better. 

I will say though that I love power fantasies.  I reveled in becoming the immortal godlike Nerevarine when playing Morrowind, I gloried in apotheosizing into a Daedric god in the Oblivion Shivering Isles expansion pack and becoming the Divine Crusader at the same damn time in the Knights of the Nine DLC, I delighted in becoming the new immortal Vampire king in the Skyrim Dawnguard DLC, etc.   So yeah, I love a good power fantasy.

I think it's fair to say the game appealed more to straight men, although if we talk about catering, then we have to consider what's the target audience of the game as well (assuming they did it consciously). What I think happened, however, is simply that having all points of view, all walks of life properly represented is expensive and can result in a very fragmented (with dozens of options per dialogue, and unmanageable complexity) or very bland (you try to make all options fit all potential playstyles) game, so you play to your strengths and avoid overthinking it too much.

Most people are fine with a power fantasy every now and then, I think. Also, there are plenty of games that both have and don't have such themes, so it would be weird to be upset about it (unless we are talking about a franchise "mutating" to add/remove said power fantasy, and betraying expectations, perhaps).

[DarkZephyr]

I think it's fair to say the game appealed more to straight men, although if we talk about catering, then we have to consider what's the target audience of the game as well (assuming they did it consciously). What I think happened, however, is simply that having all points of view, all walks of life properly represented is expensive and can result in a very fragmented (with dozens of options per dialogue, and unmanageable complexity) or very bland (you try to make all options fit all potential playstyles) game, so you play to your strengths and avoid overthinking it too much.

Most people are fine with a power fantasy every now and then, I think. Also, there are plenty of games that both have and don't have such themes, so it would be weird to be upset about it (unless we are talking about a franchise "mutating" to add/remove said power fantasy, and betraying expectations, perhaps).

I think it's fair to say the game appealed more to straight men, although if we talk about catering, then we have to consider what's the target audience of the game as well (assuming they did it consciously).

It was not more appealing to straight men by accident.  The game was certainly a product of its time but I do believe they did it very consciously.  Nearly every female was bisexual, several of the females had big bouncy jello boobs and revealing outfits.  All of that is fine.  I am not leveling accusations and criticisms at the original game, I am just stating what I believe to be true about it. 

I can't help but be excited that the sequel will include some fun stuff for straight women and dudes like me though.  :)

[Wesp5]

It was not more appealing to straight men by accident.  The game was certainly a product of its time but I do believe they did it very consciously.

Maybe we should look at some statistics here, like how high is the percentage of homosexual women and men playing video games? Wikipedia mentions numbers around 1-5 %, so each developer needs to justify to put additional work into a game for a very small number of potential additional sales.

[mdqp]

It was not more appealing to straight men by accident.  The game was certainly a product of its time but I do believe they did it very consciously.  Nearly every female was bisexual, several of the females had big bouncy jello boobs and revealing outfits.  All of that is fine.  I am not leveling accusations and criticisms at the original game, I am just stating what I believe to be true about it. 

I can't help but be excited that the sequel will include some fun stuff for straight women and dudes like me though.  :)

Well, I think I mentioned it here and there before, but I make porn games for a living. All of my games have female protagonists and they are all bisexuals, pretty much, but rather than a conscious choice to court the straight male audience, that's just what I like (or to put this another way, as an heterosexual, I'd have a hard time being interested in writing, say, gay erotica, so that didn't make it into my games).

I think people read too much into certain things. If some people aren't overly interested in appearances, they'll just put something in the game they find visually pleasing and call it a day, they don't necessarily think "how can we get those horny teenagers riled up?", most people are not so calculating, or at least I hope so.

[DarkZephyr]

It was not more appealing to straight men by accident.  The game was certainly a product of its time but I do believe they did it very consciously.

Maybe we should look at some statistics here, like how high is the percentage of homosexual women and men playing video games? Wikipedia mentions numbers around 1-5 %, so each developer needs to justify to put additional work into a game for a very small number of potential additional sales.

Agreed, as I said, the game is a product of its time.  I was just making an observation. It isn't an attack or insult to the game.  I love the game. 
I was simply making an observation because it came up in a discussion about the term "male power fantasy", a term I very much disagree with as applied to VtmB, as I stated above.

I do think that in the year 2019 there seems to be a bit more call for additional types of content.   I am glad more and more games have it. 

I think people read too much into certain things. If some people aren't overly interested in appearances, they'll just put something in the game they find visually pleasing and call it a day, they don't necessarily think "how can we get those horny teenagers riled up?", most people are not so calculating, or at least I hope so.

Its just my observation.  Its not a big deal.  Folks like myself have a lot more to look forward to in gaming than we did back in 2004 and that is a good thing in my book.  No sense lamenting how things once were.  I am excited to look to the future. 

I wasn't aware that you developed pornographic games, but that's actually very cool.  If I had the talent for such things I would probably do it too but I suck lol

Speaking of which, I just noticed that House Party has had a major update and that update includes finally adding a fully seducable dude to the mix.  So that is awesome.  I purchased that game awhile back and have kept it installed on my PC because I knew that EVENTUALLY they were going to add that kind of content.  lol 

[DarkProphet]

It was not more appealing to straight men by accident.  The game was certainly a product of its time but I do believe they did it very consciously.

Maybe we should look at some statistics here, like how high is the percentage of homosexual women and men playing video games? Wikipedia mentions numbers around 1-5 %, so each developer needs to justify to put additional work into a game for a very small number of potential additional sales.

Agreed, as I said, the game is a product of its time.  I was just making an observation. It isn't an attack or insult to the game.  I love the game. 
I was simply making an observation because it came up in a discussion about the term "male power fantasy", a term I very much disagree with as applied to VtmB, as I stated above.

I do think that in the year 2019 there seems to be a bit more call for additional types of content.   I am glad more and more games have it. 

I think people read too much into certain things. If some people aren't overly interested in appearances, they'll just put something in the game they find visually pleasing and call it a day, they don't necessarily think "how can we get those horny teenagers riled up?", most people are not so calculating, or at least I hope so.

Its just my observation.  Its not a big deal.  Folks like myself have a lot more to look forward to in gaming than we did back in 2004 and that is a good thing in my book.  No sense lamenting how things once were.  I am excited to look to the future. 

I wasn't aware that you developed pornographic games, but that's actually very cool.  If I had the talent for such things I would probably do it too but I suck lol

Speaking of which, I just noticed that House Party has had a major update and that update includes finally adding a fully seducable dude to the mix.  So that is awesome.  I purchased that game awhile back and have kept it installed on my PC because I knew that EVENTUALLY they were going to add that kind of content.  lol

I never played House Party. To be fair, I haven't looked into it much because a quick glance at the gals in the game from the store page makes them look to be very lacking in personality. Party girl "personality" (if you can call it that) is fine for one or two characters, but they all look to be of that ilk. I like my womanfolk with really vibrant personalities.

[mdqp]

Its just my observation.  Its not a big deal.  Folks like myself have a lot more to look forward to in gaming than we did back in 2004 and that is a good thing in my book.  No sense lamenting how things once were.  I am excited to look to the future. 

I wasn't aware that you developed pornographic games, but that's actually very cool.  If I had the talent for such things I would probably do it too but I suck lol

Speaking of which, I just noticed that House Party has had a major update and that update includes finally adding a fully seducable dude to the mix.  So that is awesome.  I purchased that game awhile back and have kept it installed on my PC because I knew that EVENTUALLY they were going to add that kind of content.  lol

Oh, I hope I didn't make it sound like it's a big deal either, I just wanted to say that I'd prefer to believe the people working at Troika (and working in the industry in general) were mostly motivated by passion (although I assume they did consider the appeal of certain elements in their games). Then again, I work pretty much alone, bar my testers and the artists I commission art to, so it's more personal for me, and I assume larger companies have to be more cynical when putting together a game.

I bought House Party a while ago as well, although I was waiting until they improved the UI and performance a bit. I was mainly interested because I think it's possible for players to write their own scenarios (the original one is a bit of a mixed bag, IMO), and I assumed users would eventually provide some good stories and more.

There are a lot of people who try making adult games, but drop them or don't make very interesting games because they lack programming skills, so engines with low barrier to entry are always interesting. Well, I kind of lack a proper background in programming myself, but there are plenty of engines that don't really require that (although depending on which one you start using, you'll probably need to learn some coding skills, to customize/polish this or that element). Well, I guess it would be more accurate to say that like any other field, many people are interested, but very few are able to commit the time and effort, or have the skill required to create something worthwhile, especially among those who take it as a hobby.

[DarkZephyr]

I never played House Party. To be fair, I haven't looked into it much because a quick glance at the gals in the game from the store page makes them look to be very lacking in personality. Party girl "personality" (if you can call it that) is fine for one or two characters, but they all look to be of that ilk. I like my womanfolk with really vibrant personalities.

I know that you can write your own stories for it but I am not sure how far that goes toward changing personalities. 

Oh, I hope I didn't make it sound like it's a big deal either, I just wanted to say that I'd prefer to believe the people working at Troika (and working in the industry in general) were mostly motivated by passion (although I assume they did consider the appeal of certain elements in their games). Then again, I work pretty much alone, bar my testers and the artists I commission art to, so it's more personal for me, and I assume larger companies have to be more cynical when putting together a game.

I bought House Party a while ago as well, although I was waiting until they improved the UI and performance a bit. I was mainly interested because I think it's possible for players to write their own scenarios (the original one is a bit of a mixed bag, IMO), and I assumed users would eventually provide some good stories and more.

There are a lot of people who try making adult games, but drop them or don't make very interesting games because they lack programming skills, so engines with low barrier to entry are always interesting. Well, I kind of lack a proper background in programming myself, but there are plenty of engines that don't really require that (although depending on which one you start using, you'll probably need to learn some coding skills, to customize/polish this or that element). Well, I guess it would be more accurate to say that like any other field, many people are interested, but very few are able to commit the time and effort, or have the skill required to create something worthwhile, especially among those who take it as a hobby.

Yes, you can make your own stories.  I am hoping a bunch of people will come forward and make some good dude on dude ones.  lol 

When I was younger I had an imagination and I considered myself a fairly decent writer.  I wrote stories and poetry and a song or two and I would draw these interesting and wild, unique characters (not that my drawing skills were great mind you).  But somewhere along the road I seemed to lose that spark.  One of these days I might try writing again to sharpen my imagination.  If I can get that thing revved up again, maybe I can start working on games.  Probably more as a modder though than as a developer. 

[mdqp]

Yes, you can make your own stories.  I am hoping a bunch of people will come forward and make some good dude on dude ones.  lol 

When I was younger I had an imagination and I considered myself a fairly decent writer.  I wrote stories and poetry and a song or two and I would draw these interesting and wild, unique characters (not that my drawing skills were great mind you).  But somewhere along the road I seemed to lose that spark.  One of these days I might try writing again to sharpen my imagination.  If I can get that thing revved up again, maybe I can start working on games.  Probably more as a modder though than as a developer.

More people trying to do stuff they like can't be bad, so I hope you give it a chance, if you have the time.

On a completely different note, how do you quote multiple messages on this forum? Whenever I hit quote in the post editor, I never get the quote added.

[Highwayman667]

On a completely different note, how do you quote multiple messages on this forum? Whenever I hit quote in the post editor, I never get the quote added.

I usually cut out the bits and keep the [ / quote ] parameters.

[DarkZephyr]

Yes, you can make your own stories.  I am hoping a bunch of people will come forward and make some good dude on dude ones.  lol 

When I was younger I had an imagination and I considered myself a fairly decent writer.  I wrote stories and poetry and a song or two and I would draw these interesting and wild, unique characters (not that my drawing skills were great mind you).  But somewhere along the road I seemed to lose that spark.  One of these days I might try writing again to sharpen my imagination.  If I can get that thing revved up again, maybe I can start working on games.  Probably more as a modder though than as a developer.

More people trying to do stuff they like can't be bad, so I hope you give it a chance, if you have the time.

On a completely different note, how do you quote multiple messages on this forum? Whenever I hit quote in the post editor, I never get the quote added.

I hope I give it a chance too!

As for the multiple quotes, I first hit "quote" on the first person's post that I want to respond to, take the time to make my response and then copy the whole thing, the quote and my response.  Then I go back a page and scroll down to the next person I want to respond to, hit "quote" and paste the text I copied from the previous one above the second one.  Then I scroll down and respond to the second one and hit "post".  If there's more than 2 people I want to respond to, I usually do the copy and paste thing but I will paste it into a word document or something, and do it again and again for each post I want to quote and once I have made my response to each section, I copy the whole thing and then just hit "reply" in the thread I am responding to and paste all of it into that reply and then hit "post".  I hope this all makes sense. 

Edit:  I guess to simplify it, I could just say "I use copy and paste".  lol